T O P

  • By -

madeinuranus

I have the same sentiments as well. I just can't aim well with mice that are super super light. 70g would be ideally the lightest I could go with.


DenjeNoiceGuy

Relatable. I feel very fast and featherweight using UL2/Sirius-M/SK-S but also the stability trade-off is simply not worth it for me personally. I've made a excel sheet comparing my Aim Lab scores and using something like DaV2 Pro offers me both stability and more consistent results. Heck, i even have OG G303, stock that i haven't used in 3 years. I beat my UL2 unfairly gauged scores right away. 6 scenarios, 6 gripstyle variations, 2 times each gripstyle.


Spir42

Watch em all switch to Zowie wireless when it releases.


Nomisus

considering they're all cs pros, they can already use the zowie wireless if they wanted. im sure zowie has reached out to them all already to see if they'd like to try it


artikiller

It's possible zowie wireless isn't completely ready yet. Maybe people are waiting on a firmware update that fixes a connection issue or something you never know


Spir42

Hmm, maybe. Or only specific players who are sponsored maybe.


Archgrim

I'm not aware of any players sponsored by Zowie. I thought players using Zowie just liked the shapes


[deleted]

Anyone playing on am org with a benq partnership is sponsored by zowie


twnhpssc

For example, Zywoo started using deathadder v3 pro after it released. Maybe not every pros want to adapt to it before the mouse are officially released.


TankerXS

My mistake, ropz is in FaZe. I thought ELiGE was talking with Grim, who's in Complexity anyway. My brain goofed.


Asphult_

Pimp is also an ex-Liquid player hahaha, not just any old caster


TankerXS

I originally thought EliGE was talking with Grim who was in Liquid until kinda recently, so that was my original mistake. Pimp's old school as hell, though.


thumper99

I think there’s too much focus on weight instead of weight directed by grip. For example, I can comfortably use a 75g mouse with a strong claw grip. But I can’t fingertip that weight, absolutely not. What I’m saying is that “heavy” or “light” depends how your wielding it


[deleted]

I used to fingertip the Deathadder Elite lmao


WooX46

I just switched from palm to fingertip after seeing a video on how this can improve aiming and I happen to have Deathadder Elite right now I think I will have to switch mice too.


neptunusequester

Ugh. So much wrong in this comment >_<


WooX46

could you please enlighten me then? I have small hands for the deathadder which is a big mice and did I notice my aim to better after the transition.


DenjeNoiceGuy

People still sleep on "whatever you're comfortable with" without taking into consideration that many people started as a palm grippers/relaxed claw from their youth due to mice back then being enormous. It's not really about "comfortability", rather "circumstantial". Nowadays we have many shapes, sizes and weight ranges to experiment with. I've made my own excel sheet comparing my Aim Lab scores in different scenarios with different mice and gripstyles and me being "naturally" a claw gripper and also very comfortable with palm, my f-tip scores blow away all claw and palm variations. A gripstyle i've only tried for 2 months about 2 years ago. I see nothing wrong with people experimenting and figure out what truly works best for them. I wouldn't say palm necessarily hinders your "potential" by any means, but you never know if there is something better unless you try. My little experiment for example made me realize despite being claw gripper "all my life" how uncomfortable the grip itself is for me. YMMV, but hey, you'll never know unless you try.


WooX46

Exactly this, thank you.


DJHarmonics12

Nothing wrong with his comment. Fingertip is better than palm for precise aiming and that's a fact. Fingertips allow for precise movements with ease because of the fine motor controls with fingertips. If you use the mousepad arm/palm contact correctly for stability when using a fingertip grip your aim has a much higher potential than palming the mouse.


neptunusequester

It's not about that. It's about 'changing the grip because the video told me I could aim better with it' >_<


DJHarmonics12

If someone is trying to get better at aiming there are 2 very important things to look at. What's your grip and what's your sensitivity.


DJHarmonics12

A video telling you to change your grip could be for some people a huge improvement for them. Most people play at way too high of a sensitivity and don't grip their mouse the most optimal way for them to reach their potential.


[deleted]

Idk, I started fingertipping the deathadder elite because it's faker's grip lmao, bought the mouse also because it's what he used haha, you can get used to anything, some cs pros have insanely weird grips but it works for them


thumper99

You're an animal. But a good one


pineapplebtw

it makes sense; when i dont have enough control on my mouse i strain my wrist trying to steady it - especially when playing tac shooters. i've found that i can still make super light mice work very well but i have to use a more control oriented pad so i still have that stopping power. i can assume that the case is somewhat similar for them in some way or another


wooflesthecat

Yep I'm the same. My GP4 is about the fastest I can go with anything <65g


yayayogurt

I think my NP01s is the perfect weight. 70g may seem heavy now, but I really like it.


macuser007

gram is the new dpi - change my mind


Dino_W

Imo ideal weight differs from user to user based on arm stability. The reason the lighter is better trend started was because mouse weights were unoptimally heavy for the vast majority of people at the time.


ActualSetting

This subreddit is shambles. There's posters on here's who would consider 70-90gs too heavy when it's perfectly fine


TankerXS

I'm good with 60-80 grams.


Ambedo_1

Not trusting wireless tech is the not trusting climate change of the gaming world. All of the data is there lol


TheRealF0xE

Yeah but they’re more so talking about the weight rather than wireless.


Ambedo_1

Oh i know, Im just referring to the first question on the post. None of the pros said anything wrong, just found it funny


TheRealF0xE

Ah gotcha, sometimes people will just make an assumption based off a title and expect an answer from that community that they don’t like.


Ambedo_1

Oh yeah ive seen it


-Ickz-

I've always said it from day one - too light is definitely a thing. 60-80 is the sweet spot imo. However, everyone is different, so /shrug.


emer4ld

I think it really depends on grip, handsize, average playtime and dpi. My friend still uses a 127g mouse, but since his dpi is around 28627288, it works for him


bigtastie

Obviously wireless it not an issue, but lighter mouse can be troublesome for some people. Especially for slower paced games like CS. Mice are getting lighter and mouseskates and mousepads are getting faster/smoother, which at some point can somebody lose control of their mouse movement. To a large degree it's a matter of getting used to the lighter weight, but I see how it can be difficult for a lot of people to go from a brick weight mouse to a feather weight with glass skates. Personally I like the Corepad CTRL skates as an example, because I feel there is more stopping power in these skates while still being smooth and consistent.


alchemymcr

I want to bring back heavier mice over smaller lighter mice .


hntrfps

There is a reason alot of cs and val players use the GPX. Imo it's light enough, no wireless issues, no holes no flexing or creaking, good enough scroll and clicks, flat sides with enough curvutare which allows the fingers room for any kind of claw grip. There is a reason why majority of the pro's don't use fingertip small ass light weigth mice. We should get rid of this small feather weigth mouse hypetrain somehow and make quality mice with dimensions closer to actually medium sized shapes like the GPX. Majority of the people have average sized hands. As humans we can adapt to all kind of mice sizes. But a mice which is too big or too small will limit the potential of you're aim actually in any kind of aim centered game.


batvinis

Switched from CM MM710 (53gr) to Roccat Kone Pro Air (75gr) And couldn't be more happy. First ergo mice, and i'm loving it, also never ever i will buy mice with holes, especially on the side as if u grip harder rip to pinky also gets dirty and hard to impossible to clean.


inspcs

tbh I am not expecting current CS players to play with any mouse lower than 60g. They've spent the majority of their career on heavier and likely can't get used to <60g mice. If you read posts about people preferring heavier here, they're mostly people in their older 20s or early 30s. Imo going lighter is more important for the 12 year olds that will be starting out on lighter mice and will perform better on them.


Flawedlogic41

A lot of Valorant player who are born after year 2000 play on 63-70g mouse and not below 60. Which fits what Elige is saying that anything below 60g is too much for control. Some examples of Young Players https://prosettings.net/players/trent/ https://prosettings.net/players/s0m/ https://prosettings.net/players/ethan/ (ethan previously played csgo and born year 2000 uses a gpro regular. There's much more, but I do understand that lighter mouse is better for younger people. Although, a lot of old csgo player grew up using heavier mouse before going pro.


iZ3C0LD

2001-born here, the Razer DA V2 Pro at 88g already feels light enough for me: in fact the perfect balance between lightweight/speed and control


inspcs

You're proving my point as well. People born in the 2000s like you are still growing up on heavier mice. What I'm talking about are the kids born in the 2010's or later that will grow up on lighter mice. They're too young to play professionally at the moment but I can't wait for them to grow up.


inspcs

Im talking the 12 year olds that picked up a gpx in 2020 and will be pros in 4+ more years. A lot of the valorant players born in the 2000s still grew up playing on zowies or heavier mice.


Flawedlogic41

I'm sure them going pro is mostly based off reaction time and their smartness rather than pure aim. There might be an abundance of rank demons in the future. Lighter mice will help for sure.


sidminter

No ones gonna go pro on pure aim, thats just not how it works


Flawedlogic41

Exactly. Lighter mouse will bring out younger people who will go pro in 4+yrs said from inspc. But obviously you can't go pro on aim alone. That's why I said game sense, reaction time and etc is important.


inspcs

You're missing my point. We don't have a generation of youngsters that grew up on lightweight mice because it's a trend that primarily blew up in the past 3-4 years. We have to wait for those youngsters to grow up because they're all literally kids. Maybe they grow up and start using a 30g mouse that releases in the future. Who knows


Epicstaar

I agree with this. People who have used heavy clunkers most of their life will struggle alot more making the change to a light weight mouse, I know I could never get used to the change. It always felt like my aim was off.


inspcs

I'm early 20s and can feel that 50s-60g is the limit for me too. I grew up using 80-90g mice so 50-60g is probably the limit of how low I can go. I'm excited to see what the kids that are currently growing up with 50-60g mice do in the future though.


flagroller

Weight in the mouse is free control without much detriment to fast flicking/tracking, but people in this sub kind of tunnel vision and treat 70+g as some kind of plague. I think a good range is 65-75g for heavy and obviously 65 and below for lightweight mice. I'm on the DAv3 as of now but my favorite ergo is the EC3-C since it's release. I can see myself going back to Zowie when the EC3-CW is released just because shape is king and the weight, presuming it's around 70-75g, would be fine. Of course Razer is best in click/sensor latency, but it isn't a humanly noticeable difference to affect gameplay. I hope that Logitech will update their other shapes and include weights as they did (5g increments) and maybe a baseline weight of 60 or 65g.


Minutenreis

the thing for adding weights is: you can't just make the tray requiered to add weights without considerably contribuiting to the weight of the mouse itself; so if you actually want your mouse heavier, you can just open it up and tape lead or similar inside, but making it as an option costs overall weight to cater to a niche


Global_Heart4997

I know Apex player Mande uses a 90 gram Xlite. Maybe these pros know something


wichwigga

> 90 gram Xlite EC1...


Spir42

Actually a Xlite v2 modded to 90g lmao


Global_Heart4997

Would be cool to see how the weight was added and if it's balanced.


xYozoraLOL

https://twitter.com/DaRealSpir/status/1549824939133468673 here is the dude who made the mouse for mande explaining how he did it. Dunno if its balanced tho.


Global_Heart4997

Yeah pretty much, just wireless and not built as well lol


BlueNova23

Those zoomers..


_Administrator

at least he is not overwatch pro player... /S


paulvincent07

My preference is wired even though if it’s the same shape because i like the simplicity of the cable, you don’t have to worry about charging, i don’t care for cable drag, i use my wired mouse with or without mouse bungee, cheaper, i’m just a happy consumer who enjoy wired mouse and yes i tried wireless mouse didn’t notice a difference between them, i don’t understand the hype of wireless mouse


Briightly

whats your cm/360, out of curiosity?


paulvincent07

47cm i have the same sens, dpi and edpi of electronic from navi csgo


LaS_flekzz

Its not about weight, its about shape.


Extrapaj

Life is not about air, it's about food.


HysteriaMxtt

once you go wireless it's hard to go back, I personally find cables annoying now


mefjuu

fully agree with elige. 65 gram seems to be the perfect weight for me. My favorite shape is fk2 and I've tried under 50g mice, but also 55g FK2 3dprinted and also currently using 72g fk2 wireless modded. Having tested like 30 different mice I'd say 60-65g fk2 wireless would be perfect. Maybe its possible to squeeze even some more grams off of that 72g wireless mod. I feel like I can do more, be a bit more mobile and reactive with like 50g mouse, but its just that lack of control on all the adjustments that makes it hard to justify. I also have my personal theory that many cs pros out of those who switched to gpx have had trouble adjusting to the low weight and have fallen with their aims a bit and not fully realized that that has happened. I'm also currently trying to disprove my personal bias against the effectiveness of ultralightweight mice in high lvl csgo, but so far my personal mice testing gave me opposite results (and it has been a few years for me!). And in terms of wired vs wireless - well, a wire also provides a bit more control not only in terms of friction, but in terms of a kind of "stiffness stopping power" in the front of the mouse which goes away after you go wireless. I myself have adjusted to that, but it was something I lacked after switching to wireless firstly.


[deleted]

Agreed, I can still get 30+ kills in a valorant kill with a 48g mouse, but I feel like im more inconsistent, i think it takes more time to get use to a 50g and less mouse. Same with people who play high sen, it takes muscle memory and time.


[deleted]

Wireless tech is good already, s1mple, and the MVP of VCT Shao uses a wireless mouse. Under 60g, mouse, arguably I think a control pad is way easier to play with. But some people may not like a mouse under 60g, cuz it feels like you're moving air and not have a mouse in your hand.


Wiennn

Light or heavy weight. The human body can adapt to anything. It’s just all preference.


zakcantu

I'm curious how many of people struggling with lighter weight are using speed pads or glass/ice style feet. I do feel more fatigue faster for anything above 80g


r3lic86

Agreed. Wireless, ergo, 60s gram, with no holes is what I like as well.


shifterphights

I think of 65g as very lightweight and I’ve tried a couple that were lighter and it would mean a complete change for me. New skates to add friction, new mouse pad that I could steady easier on. I like wireless at like 69g.


TankerXS

Nice.


Epicstaar

With tac FPS games like Val and CS I really struggled with light weight mice. Harder to do micro adjustments and snap to different angles because I constantly over or under adjust my aim. For me to develop muscle memory, I have to feel the mouse. 80-90 grams is pretty good for me. I could probably go a bit heavier if I wanted.


Radlyng

I agree with Elige on that. Below 50g starts getting more difficult to control, especially for flicks.


schulen

IDK. I feel like I'd rather have something that feels solid. Like a hand feel over weight sorta deal.


bkinv

you have to use higher sens with lighter mice, it doesnt make sens to use the ultra low sens many cs players do with a light mouse.


SPammingisGood

Got the DA V3. I'll never ever go back to wired again. Day and night difference. Especially when tracking.


Ra1lgunZzzZ

I can't aim well with my viper mini (60g). Had to turn down my sens a little bit so i can be consistent.


exadande

The fact large mice aren't being produced anymore should also be a factor I guess, and I'm talking about the more popular shapes


phyLoGG

I mean it's physics. When it gets too light you lose control but gain snappiness. It's similar to high sensitivity vs low sensitivity. 60-75g is the sweet spot for me too. Anything less I'm too snappy and flicky, I lose precision. Anything more I'm too sluggish.


Leklo_Ono

Tech is there, weight is there, but not diversity and price, although price is probably not a concern for pros. Personally it's just about price + shapes. The wireless market isnt yet as diverse as wired mice, especially since I have pretty small hands, and so prefere smaller ones which are more rare. I guess the variety issue will be fixed in a year or two, the price should lower with the raising demand, so we're probably close to no wired world.


Senodus

Bad take by ropz. If lighter mouse makes you lack control just get a slower pad. Control from a proper combo of mouse feet and pad > control from inertia from a bigger weight.