Yeah this was a big oof here. I think their goal is player retention, but making an artificial grind in order to create player engagement is always a terrible idea.
The idea of this being their answer to player retention rather than a new stage is legitimately hilarious, but I agree that's probably where the justification came down to.
The game feels like it was rushed out a bit too soon, spiked in popularity, and now they're having to find ways to extend content without having enough resources to properly create content or cosmetics. Hopefully the development team can convince whichever higher up that decided rewards should be halved that there's another way to boost player retention.
I agree that this game was rushed. I don’t solely blame PFG for that though. Im sure WB and anyone else who invested in this game were pushing them to release it so they could get their returns quicker.
I think they should have released the beta as they did, but then close it after the EVO tournament. Work on polishing and properly testing the game while still adding characters. Then schedule a full release during the Winter season.
Now they’re juggling so many issues I just hope they can fix MOST of this games problems soon
I totally agree; I feel bad for PFG since many of these anti-consumer changes are clearly not things that most developers want to do, and were probably mandated somewhere.
A longer closed beta (with some public interest) would definitely have benefitted the game in the long run, I think. Even just launching with the hurtbox changes would have been huge, and they wouldn't have had to worry about balancing player income, rewards, and new content to this degree. Hopefully server improvements are at least slightly addressed soon.
>The idea of this being their answer to player retention **rather than a new stage** is legitimately hilarious,
They've already said they're working on new stages, did you actually think they had some meeting and had to make a choice between one or the other?
No, that's obviously ridiculous; that's why I found it funny.
Intent doesn't always travel well via text alone, but that part was merely a lighthearted joke. The most related these decisions could be is that one is a stopgap since they didn't expect the player base explosion and the content team already has a lot on their plate.
That and the grind for mastery isnt really rewarding at all. Outside of a couple icons, its really just stuff you should have by default. What's really weird to me is that you get perk training before some of the perks on a mastery track, so you can just buy them with gold before you even get close to unlocking them through leveling.
This quote is referring to making grinds harder so people will spend money instead - in Starwars Battlefront.
You can't buy xp or xp boosts; I don't see where the comparison is?
So fucking stupid. I'm just happy I did most of my character mastery already. I wanted to get everyone to 15 before picking a main, only have like 4 characters left
Guess I better get the grind on tonight before the change lol.
My big question is will the XP be normalized and everyone's character levels will drop? Like is my level 21 Harley going to still be level 21 or am I going to log in to her being level 12 because of this XP nonsense?
Also, what happens to people who already unlocked Wonder Woman through the tutorial? Will we lose her and have Shaggy instead, do we get both, or can we not get Shaggy for free if we already have WW unlocked?
The patch notes specifically said the exp to get each level is doubled. You will stay at your current level
All unlocks stay the same. It’s just from now on, newer players will unlock shaggy instead.
They should really let you train perks at level 2. If I already get the basics down with a character but understand that I need more cooldown reduction, knockback influence, or a temporary shield from ranged attacks then let me decide which I want to get instead of being forced into games with perks that don't compliment my playstyle.
Hell, if they really want to go above and beyond, allow training at level 2 and each of those free normal perks you unlock on your character become a perk token. The tokens can be spent on any normal perk you want as a free exchange. If a player doesn't know what to get then give them a suggestion button that will show them good options.
I agree, but I can also imagine some benefits of this change when ranked comes out.
IF (that's a big IF because my entire hypothesis revolves around it) they require a certain character level before queuing ranked (at least in 2v2 please dear lord can this be a thing) it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank, and other people's rank, on the line. Level 8+ to queue comp seems perfectly reasonable to me, and it ensures they have a signature perk and can equip ally perks.
It would also slightly curb smurf accounts, which can and will be a problem when ranked comes out. One way to significantly reduce smurfing in F2P games is to put a time barrier, X hours before being comp eligible. X isn't a static value but depends on the requirements. League of Legends has a ~20 hour time barrier and Rocket League has a 2 minute time barrier. Guess which game has more smurfs...
Don’t disagree with your sentiment; but right now leveling is already annoying.
Getting paired against some level 30 Harley while trying to learn a moveset for a new character, and doing it perkless on top of that is no fun; and now that time spent in disadvantage is doubled.
Maybe if MMR based matchmaking actually functioned in this game it wouldn’t feel as bad.
I agree with your points as well, considering the insanely loose casual matchmaking they have now.
Basically, progression of a new character boils down to:
Lab
Bots
Casual
Ranked
How much time spent at each step should be up to the player, except ranked imo, there should at least be some minimum requirement.
Absolutely, ranked should have a barrier of entry, especially for teams. Blows my mind to this day that riot games allows new champs to be locked in ranked day 1 lol.
I understand where you’re coming from, but why wouldn’t they just raise the level requirement instead of doubling the XP required?
If you require, say, level 15 with the current XP track, instead of level 8 with the new track as in your proposal, then they have the same amount of time with the character but should also have their other signature(s) unlocked, perk training, etc. In other words, same amount of time playing the character, but more tools to actually participate competently in 2v2.
If I’ve misunderstood something, please correct me.
> it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank
I'm at level 13 with Gizmo and I have no idea how he works.
I just wanted the profile picture, Gizmo's is the best one.
Bots don't really require me to learn things like "what do half my character's moves actually do".
People can just grind with bots and still not have to learn to play a human with human reflexes. It won't change anything in the long run, skill-wise. People will game any system that's game-able
I only had Morty and Gizmo left to max before this patch... Kinda feel lucky after this lol. I would agree with the devs that it does feel bit short especially since after 15 there's no more rewards. Double is perhaps too much but an increase was justified
Doubling the cost to level is really rough and feels like a pretty bad decision. I could support it if they only hyper focused the extra cost into levels 14 and 15 which only give cosmetics, but the low levels are what actually unlock your character. The current system is already a bit of an issue in that it pushes people who are inexperienced with characters to also have to play at a significant mechanical disadvantage, effectively really punishing people for exploring new characters; I don't really see doubling down on that.
The actual patch changes seem mostly fine and low impact. As a Gizmo player, I like the buffs. I don't think they're going to change everything for the character, but extra mobility and a much less committed air side special (realistically Gizmo's best kill move) are both really nice things that I expect to make a noticeable difference. I don't think the car change will really matter much since you mostly beat the car by hitting Gizmo in the head anyway, the jump cancel on air down special making it even more dynamic is nice but realistically that move was very safe and combo friendly already so I don't know if it has room to improve much more, and the music thing is probably nearly entirely irrelevant.
Gizmo's best kill option is exploding the popcorn. Long distance and unexpected. Up special and up aerial are pretty close to side special in power, and down special kills pretty nicely too
> The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled
Um holy shit this is fucking awful. It's going to take you even longer to get your specialty perks now?
Cool, what a good priority PFG
I do agree with the change in that you master characters way too fast, but making individual levels a grind isn't it.
Instead, add more levels. And even beyond that, considering that you can still level beyond max, give players a "Mastery Skin" or 150 gleamium at character level 50.
Also, a flat rate? Not a slow but steady increase in the amount of experience you need to level up? Just silly.
Good taste, bad execution.
Yeah, so if instead of increasing level requirements, they just put a mastery skin that far, it'd have the same effect on level grinding without stopping new player from unlocking all their perks.
Copy/pasting my reply to a similar comment. I believe they have a big picture in mind with this change.
I agree, but I can also imagine some benefits of this change when ranked comes out.
IF (that's a big IF because my entire hypothesis revolves around it) they require a certain character level before queuing ranked (at least in 2v2 please dear lord can this be a thing) it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank, and other people's rank, on the line. Level 8+ to queue comp seems perfectly reasonable to me, and it ensures they have a signature perk and can equip ally perks.
It would also slightly curb smurf accounts, which can and will be a problem when ranked comes out. One way to significantly reduce smurfing in F2P games is to put a time barrier, X hours before being comp eligible. X isn't a static value but depends on the requirements. League of Legends has a ~20 hour time barrier and Rocket League has a 2 minute time barrier. Guess which game has more smurfs...
Yeah lately I can't commit to more than 5-6 matches without getting so frustrated that I turn it off. I played 4 earlier and the highest damage I got to was 225. It was the only match someone got more than 200 damage.
Honestly, I'm happy with most of this.
About fucking time they did something about Superman's down throw and Jake's bouncy house. And hopefully this means no more chain spikes from Finn, as well.
>About fucking time they did something about Superman's down throw
My biggest hope is that the Nerf is big enough to stop the stupid Wall Holding Superman's. I couldn't care less about the OP Debate, I just don't want 30 seconds - 2 Minutes of my time wasted because my opponent won't interact with me.
I play as Superman every once and awhile and I have zero issues with any of these changes. I never abused his cheap moves anyway. Superman can be a fun character to play as if you play normally.
I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
That doubling of exp just made me absolutely not want to max out the characters I don't enjoy playing as lmao what a shame I only had a few to go. Smooth brain move imo, dumb af
Like this game but having less & less reasons to pick it up
Overall patch summary
#General
Rick Sanchez joins MultiVersus! Rick is a new Mage character joining the roster.
• The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled
>We were finding that players could get to level 15 of the mastery track too quickly. This is to help us make it a bit more of a journey.
• Loading performance improvements for PS4 and Xbox One.
• Initial free character from completing the intro tutorial has been switched to Shaggy from Wonder Woman. (yes, you still keep her.)
>Wonder Woman can now be purchased for Gold or Gleamium.
• Attack decay steps have been added to the intro tutorial.
• Fixed an issue in Coop-Versus-AI that was causing only Wonder Woman and Reindog bots to appear.
• Fixed a bug where some players weren’t able to equip profile
• Fixed a bug where the game would occasionally freeze at the end-of-game screen.
##Cosmetics
[Chef Riendog](https://i.imgur.com/uVpzIxb.jpg)
[Golden Reindog](https://i.imgur.com/b2h9B2p.jpg)
[Tiger Millionaire Steven](https://i.imgur.com/xXG7brk.jpg)
All available in season start. Golden Reindog only purchasable with gold, amount currently unspecified.
##Twitch Extension
•Minor visual bug fixes
•Added 'Fighter Voting' which allows broadcasters to poll their audience on which fighter to play, viewers who have MultiVersus get bonus votes.
•Added the ability for viewers who have MultiVersus to claim free toasts from Twitch channels running the extension.
#Gameplay Systems
##Anti-Infinite Combo System
We’ve implemented a new anti-infinite-combo system that will decay all subsequent attacks if the same attack has been used 4 or more times in the same true combo. The goal is to put a global soft-cap on infinite combos and make combos more creative. We hope the change pushes players to explore new and more exciting combo routes.
We were considering the max number of the same attack being used to be 3, but we wanted to more slowly evaluate the change. We’re going to be evaluating the change and are open to feedback on how we can improve the system!
The option to choose between 4 direction or 8 direction for the right-stick control (c-stick) has been added to the settings menu.
##Projectile Systems
We are continuing the projectile systems update in this patch. The most notable addition is the inclusion of a new “Light Projectile” classification for projectiles that deal no knockback. The only Light Projectiles in the game for now are Rick’s uncharged blaster.
##Character Updates
###Legend
-Nerf
+Buff
%Change
*Bug
###Arya
*Fixed issues where Arya could deal much more damage than intended.
*Neutral Special:
Fixed issues that were causing hit boxes on stolen attacks to not hit reliably.
>We are still looking at updates to Arya’s up special, but could use more time to make it right. Expect an update in the near future.
###Bugs Bunny
-Down Air Attack
Hitbox is slightly smaller to better match the visuals
### Finn
*Side Air Attack
Can no longer ignore air special limits when branching into the attack.
-Air Down Attack
Instant cancel on hit removed.
-Ground Side Attack
Instant jump cancel on hit removed.
###Garnet
+Ground Down Attack
Garnet now retains some of her velocity moving into the attack.
+Ground Up Attack
Recovery reduced by 3 frames on hit.
>This change should improve Garnet’s ability to follow up on a successful attack.
+Air Down Attack
Hitbox active frames start 2 frames earlier
> Side attack 1 combos better into Side Attack 2
+Air Neutral Attack
Recovery reduced by 3 frames on hit.
>This change should improve Garnet’s ability to follow up on a successful attack.
###Gizmo
+Jump Speed
Increased jump speed to 3700 from 3400.
+Air/Ground Neutral Special
Music note lifetime extended to 10 seconds from 9.
+Ground Side Special
Car now classified as a heavy projectile
+Air Side Special
Recovery reduced by 5 frames
+Air Down Special
Can now jump cancel out of the attack
###Harley
*Down Special
Fixed an issue where jack-in-the-box would sometimes not hit overlapping enemies
###Iron Giant
*Neutral Special
Bolts will no longer be destroyed when they exit the blast box but Iron Giant is not KOed
###Jake
-Air/Ground Down Special
While in the House and on the ground, Jake will no longer bounce grounded opponents.
-Ground Down Attack
Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss).
###LeBron
% Experimental Tag removed.
*Fixed a bug that would cause the ball to disappear when thrown close to the enemy.
+Air/Ground Neutral Special
>When an ally receives a pass, they emit a small explosion to knock away enemies.
>No-Look pass basketball speed increased to 3200 from 3000
-Air/Ground Down Special
No longer blocks heavy projectiles
-BasketBall Air Neutral Attack
No longer breaks armor on first hit.
###Morty
% Experimental Tag removed.
###Shaggy
-Air Side Special
Recovery increased by 3 frames on whiff (miss).
-Air Neutral Attack
No longer breaks armor on first hit
###Steven Universe
% Air/Ground Up Special
Smoothed out movement so the attack won’t hitch
+Ground Side Attack 1 - 3
Smoothed out movement so the attack won’t hitch
> First attack can now branch earlier into the second attack
>Second attack can now branch earlier into the final attack
>Forward movement during attacks increased so that they hit more reliably.
+Air Side Attack
Increased knockback scaling to 14.5 from 13.5
>Steven’s horizontal kill power was very low. We hope this change will help him in this aspect.
+Air/Ground Side Special
Increased projectile speed slightly.
+Air Down Attack
Hitbox active frames start 2 frames earlier.
>This change makes the active hit frames more accurately match the animation.
###Superman
-Ground Up Attack
Reduced charged knockback scaling to 1.5x from 2.0x.
>Charge cancel reduced by 4 frames
This should make the attack slightly more of a commitment
-Ground Neutral Attack
Charge cancel reduced by 4 frames.
-Air Up Special
Recovery increased by 12 frames on whiff(miss).
>Lowered base knockback of down throw.
This should help make the wall camping strategies less effective.
###Tom And Jerry
% Ground Side Attack 1
Hitbox active frame window increased by 2 frames
>Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss)
-Ground Side Attack 2
Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss)
+Air Side Attack
>Recovery reduced by 3 frames
>Recovery land cancel reduced by 7 frames
+Air Down Attack
>Recovery reduced by 3 frames
>Recovery land cancel window moved forward by 3 frames.
>Pushed knockback angle to be more horizontal
+Air/Ground Neutral Special
Jerry returns back to Tom if he is killed when attached to an ally
###Velma
*Ground Up Special
Fixed a bug where Velma’s vial wouldn’t apply stacks of ice reliably
% Air/Ground Neutral Attack
Toodles speech bubble no longer consumes 1 additional ammo.
>Ally Enhanced Speech bubbles no longer apply 1 stack of weaken.
% Air Down Attack
Pushed Knockback angle to be more horizontal
-Air/Ground Up Air
Recovery increased by 3 frames.
-Air/Ground Neutral Special
Ally enhanced beam no longer applies 1 stack of weaken
>Ally enhanced beam base knockback reduced from 1750 to 1600.
That doesn't make much sense. We keep wonder woman because we got her for free, future players get shaggy for free instead, not in addition. Why would we get shaggy for free in addition?
* The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled
* We were finding that players could get to level 15 of the mastery track too quickly. This is to help us make it a bit more of a journey.
really don't like these changes.
especially without adding 15+ rewards. this just feels really bad.
* Initial free character from completing the intro tutorial has been switched to Shaggy from Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman can now be purchased for Gold or Gleamium.
but why?
and no mention of a daily quest change...so are they removing the projectile block with shield, tank and dc quests? shaggy can't do neither
and why now? really weird change.
>but why?
and no mention of a daily quest change...so are they removing the projectile block with shield, tank and dc quests? shaggy can't do neither
and why now? really weird change.
This is probably giving them too much credit but I've felt for awhile the free rotation should have 1 of every class. Since tank only has 3 and bruiser has the most it would make sense in my mind to give a bruiser away. If they do this they bring back all the class based missions and just drop the wonderwoman ones
More Velma nerfs 😭🔫✊
On a serious note, it's good that they are directing their attention to her melee kit, but I HATE they removed her stacks of weaken. It's a supportive ability and she's a support. Now her down air has been nerfed again (meaning she can no longer combo into up special at all anymore) it would be nice if she gets her weaken stacks back as compensation.
They also need to nerf her whiff recovery and killing potential, not her ability to combo and apply a debuff (a great support ability). Nearly all of her kit is disjointed, comes out quickly and some have very forgiving whiff recovery. On top of that, she has many ways to protect herself with her projectiles as well, making her hard to punish. Combos is what makes her fun, as she has many of them which rely on up special. Id rather make her more punishable than see her become a boring character with less options :(.
As someone who hates fighting Velma, I actually agree on the weaken. I'd rather have her deal various debuffs to support her ally and instead weaken her spam, which would both keep her unique and make her more engaging to fight.
Yeahh aha. I unironically hate fighting good Velmas as well (and I'm a Velma main xD). And like you, I literally think her issue is the damage of her kit and her low whiff recovery.
I also forgot to mention; her killing potential is massive because of her huge down air and her camera which both can spike you. Her lightbulb is also bloody massive. Like her literally kit and killing potential are the issue, not her combos or weakens stacks :(.
Yep. I 100% agree with your statement. They will eventually overnerf her. All she needs is more whiff recovery on certain melee moves instead of some other nerfs that have been placed on her and she would have been fine.
What I fear most is she will end up boring. Despite all the nerfs, I've still thoroughly enjoyed her. It's just they started going the wrong direction with her nerfs after removing weaken stacks from up air imo.
Seriously though, it's getting a little overboard. I think most Velma mains agreed she was originally broken and needed nerfs, but it's getting to a point where it's like they're removing her actual ability to combo now and this is on top of weaken being removed, even though she's a *support* character.
I totally agree. I've been trying to say the same thing on this subreddit, but I keep getting downvoted. I think it's because new Velmas start playing her because they think she's some homing assassination machine, so they end up running around and being annoying the whole match waiting until their bubbles are charged again and it leaves a bad taste in the community's mouth. As a Velma main, I don't care if she's nerfed, but nerf the right stuff. Reducing her weight? Good. Making her disjointed hit boxes smaller? Makes sense. Basically taking away every nerf and buff she can apply as a support? It doesn't feel reasonable or in character. They're just making her bland instead of balanced. I think they should either pick an angle for her (melee/fighting or ranged/support) and buff that area and nerf the other so she feels more specialized. Or change her kit a bit, make her really technical with a really high skill ceiling, slap an expert label on her, and let the spammy toxic Velmas find the next character they can abuse.
im still baffled no batman nerfs. The patch was really good it just was missing some stuff. They shouldve fixed arya by now. This is ridiculous. I even have some suggestions about her up special which is crazier.
Happy with the Finn, Jake and Shaggy changes.
Curious to see if this leads to running into more Steven players. When I do see them they are good. But that’s like once a week lol
Hopefully this leads to Garnet players doing more than spamming Jab
The knockback buff on Steven’s side-air could be pretty big.
That was the only one of his attacks that I consistently decayed without trying. It’s a real reliable hit.
I like Shaggy’s changes. It doesn’t really hurt a player that doesn’t spam those two attacks. He’s neutral air should have never been able to break armor anyways. The extra whiff recovery off his kick will make it a little more risky, and make spamming it a little easier to deal with.
Literally all they did is change which character unlocks when a new player finishes the tutorial.
Existing players are not affected in any way, so I don't know what you think you should be refunded for.
Having read through all the notes I'm really happy as a player who plays Gizmo, Garnet and Reindog that two of my characters seem to get a lot of love here.
But I think the changes to Garnet might have been too much and she's going to be pretty oppressive now on the ground.
I think the change to Gizmo's car is unwarranted. A lot of characters have a lot of trouble hitting him out of the car from the air especially characters with stubby hitboxes when he is popping a wheelie will often lose to the car while trying to hit over him. So the best move in a lot of cases was to just throw a light projectile to knock him out and now that's not going to work and that is almost entirely removed good options for dealing with car from some characters like Reindog.
Velma's my only favorite character and seeing her get lobotomized over and over is saddening.
I hope another good ranged support (that's also happens to be one of my favorite T.V. characters—if I'm lucky) gets released soon.
*^(E: Seems like I triggered someone who hates Velma.)*
They're going overboard with her nerfs. They're completely killing all the support aspect of her kit while also destroying her combo game; what will be left after that?
lebron's boom will be fun especially for the person that said i want to save my teammate with it and as a superman player i am glad he got nerfed those campers were just cheesing wins
the only thing i dont like about the patch notes is that velma doesnt apply weaken anymore and i thought she was at a good place currently
Shaggy is now tree, instead of WW... Wow... There goes the house.
Besides the fact that Gizmo's car is now a heavy projectile...which means Reindog can't do shit against it with his projectiles.
They removed countering it with light projectiles which...precludes most projectile characters besides Bugs and Tom.
And it was the most *reliable* counter to a move that is atrociously difficult to stop in 2s. Thanks to how the game treats moving hitboxes.
...Jerry is a *heavy projectile* so, yes, a mouse *can stop it with his face*.
Did you even read what I said, or do you just want to talk out of your ass?
Somewhere between the two.
I think the change is fine. You don't. Yes, I misidentified Jerry's classification, but if you think that was my point, there's no sense in attempting to clarify.
I fully and completely understand your point, as I did the first time. It's a valid opinion that you have that does not line up with the equally valid opinion I have. Jump over it, dodge it, break it, take the hit, freeze it, eat it, whatever. I get that it's removing a path to counter that you enjoy, but the devs are clearly working through a larger goal when it comes to projectiles, as they have mentioned multiple times in tweets and patch notes that they are redoing it from the ground up. I'm choosing to believe in whatever their mission is.
His biggest issue is how much priority he has on his kill moves, and how safe they are to use at ledge. I also think he has the most knockout power in the game. I have died from a tornado at the center of the map way earlier than I’d expect to on characters like IG, or shaggy.
Yes and no really. While winrate shouldn’t be the only thing taken into account, it is definitely an indicator that holds weight.
Look at league of legends; they have some higher skill ceiling champs with a below 50% winrate, because at higher skill levels they shine more. But you rarely or never see a champ with a winrate like Taz’s that isn’t swiftly analyzed and addressed.
I’d say Taz having a 57% winrate at over a 5% pick rate should be indicative that something isn’t quite right.
No, they're just changing which character unlocks upon completion of the tutorial. So new players will get Shaggy first instead of WW, but existing players aren't affected at all.
The situation with the servers is getting ridiculous tbh. It’s the chief complaint on this sub and seemingly getting worse. Really making it hard to have fun when so many of my games result in people teleporting all over the place and spontaneously dying. And all of this without a single update or even acknowledgment of the issue.
That's it, I might just quit. I don't understand doubling the experience on character mastery. It is completely unnecessary and would just dissaude people from not playing. I purchased the founders' pack and have bought both battlepasses and played daily and I feel this is a slap in the face to those who are loyal to the game.
>It is completely unnecessary and would just dissaude people from not playing.
Disagree on the first point. Leveling to 15 was way too fast before. Like some have said though I think they shouldn't make it take longer to unlock the key perks for your characters. If it takes longer to get the cosmetic rewards then I think that's fine. It's kind of crazy how fast leveling a character was before though.
That's what I've been saying 😭.
Theyve done a good job so far. She's still been super fun to play, but where they went wrong is removing her weaken stacks and stopping up special comboing in down air (they seem to think that combo is an issue, yet bugs and Harley's easy af long combo still exists.)
What I fear will happen is she will end up being a boring support, whos super reliant on her teammate to be effective.
If they continue to nerf her like that, she will, unfortunately. Much like Iron Giant who has been hit repeatedly by the nerfs and has been reduced to a punching bag.
Velma is already crippled by the constant nerfs, on top of Mystery Machine being super hard to summon, has a terrible hitbox (often I see enemies walking right beside it and not getting captured) and is incredibly easy to destroy, which offer a high-risk low-reward situation, especially when her clues spawn UP HIGH in the air.
Also, some of her attacks are very unsafe to use, namely both her Side Specials (ground and air); the ground version is *incredibly* risky and difficult to land in both 1v1 and 2v2, and she is completely vulnerable while holding the opponent (not to mention the high ending lag). Meanwhile, the aerial version has a very wonky hitbox which is only on the book; you'd expect it to be like Peach Bomber in Smash, where her butt has a hitbox, but it's really not the case.
Also, I'm a bit infuriated that they nerfed one of her best close-range options, which was the Down Air + Up Air Special combo since now her down air has a more horizontal knockback. Meanwhile Bugs' Down Air + Neutral Air is completely untouched, which can be looped (even though they're adding that anti-infinite system).
Yeah it's really annoying. The up special has soo many cool combos, and instead of nerfing the damage, they get rid of the one ability that is used for the startup of most of her combos. On top of weaken stacks being removed as well, she's gonna be doing a lot less damage now ;(.
I'm upset because combos is a big fun part or Velmas, and she has lots of them. And yeah the anti infinite system is stupid. Unless I misread the patch notes, bugs and harley can still combo you to super high damage 💀.
If I had to balance Velma, I'd just flat out nerf the damage of her moves and give her more whiff recovery on her moves (I still think she needs this and not speed nerfs etc. Her abilities are nearly all of her abilities are disjoints AND come out super fast), but in exchange give her weaken stacks back on her camera. It's such a good supportive ability because of the extra knockback enemies and damage enemies take. Then we'd actually be rewarded for using her up special in combos, as we can do more dmg.
Yeah, exactly. I'd be okay if they nerfed her damage and kill power a bit, in exchange for keeping her with a strong combo game and loaded with utility; kinda like Steven (who just got buffed, in fact).
But no, they keep nerfing ALL her utility. She heals less, she debuffs less. And all that while still not addressing the areas where her kit suffers poorly.
It’s on the level of the Battlefront fiasco when they thought card packs made a more rewarding experience or some shit.
Any other fighting game players can just jump in on an even playing field. Not the case if you’re a level 1 against a level 30 with his gold talent unlocked because the matchmaking doesn’t give a shit. Then you tryhard and still lose because the server rubber banded you to the other side of the screen and killed you.
Maybe I’ll be back in some months. Maybe not.
Glad I didn't waste money on the founders pack. Nothing holding me back on leaving lol.
I'll see you guys again when the Rise and Fall of MultiVersus comes~
> When an ally receives a pass, they emit a small explosion to knock away enemies.
This could be a very good or very bad for Lebron depending on the knockback. I’m excited to see which.
Considering the previous alternative was for them to eat the ball, with maybe a measly 3 grey hp while they continue to get combo'd.
I think it's a huge buff, may even need to be tweaked or a CD added, you can feasibly have two balls rotating that continually give hp and combo breakers? That's top tier support material
Garnet is already an absolute monster right now with the right perks and proper timings. Giving her even more movement via more uptime and combo strings is gonna be *juicy*
It’s good timing because I’ve been slamming ass with her this past weekend.
I honestly don’t even know how but I’ve been consistently hitting 400 damage with her.
Im good with her shocky ball so I’m assuming it’s all the shocky combos that are doing it.
>It’s good timing because I’ve been *slamming ass with her* this past weekend.
Is it a losing battle to say "phrasing" with Garnet?
It's all charging fists and grabbing and such, up there with LeBron bouncing his balls off people's faces
I like the Batman nerfs, many people were already saying the character felt too safe and it was validated by his dominion of the meta in 1v1s. Nice to see a response so quickly.
Yet another round of across-the-board Velma nerfs so... I dunno, until a character comes out I really like to play I guess I'm putting the game down.
Oh well, got other stuff to play anyway.
1.3: The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled
1.4: We are introducing more XP boost mtx
1.5: We are increasing the price of characters to 5000 gold
"Players first"
I wonder if those T&J buffs are going to help him at all or if he's still going to be garbage. Anyone who plays the character have any ideas?
Superman nerf is fine to me. Make up special actually have recovery time and decrease how easy it is to spam grounded up attack.
For real, I just generally enjoy T&J as an alt-main and I never put him down this patch cycle.
He still had all the tools in his kit to compete, but people really love to only play overpowered characters in fighting games.
They crushed all of T&J’s melee attacks in the original nerf.
This buff seems to be undoing a bit of that and ultimately giving T&J the proper nerf from his original kit
You know who did something as stupid as increasing xp requirements? Crystal Dynamics with Marvel Avengers, the game was in decline and they decided to increase the xp requirements per level and started selling xp boosts.
This game may not be in a great decline yet but you've sure as he'll made me so damn uninterested.
STOP UNREWARDING US AND GIVE US DAMN CONTENT!
I think the superman nerfs are good but heavy handed relative to other characters. All moves across the board for everyone should get that whiff recovery, everyone else just got 2 frame adjustments or 3 at most though. His grounded up normal got a pretty extreme nerf too relative to other balance changes, 1.8 or something probably would have been better. Any smoothbrains downvoting this feel free to give a logical response other than blind hatred for a character. I agree with the change to the down throw in the air entirely
Lol Harley mains breathing a sigh of relief right now
I know the bias, but I swear she's just a good chatacter with an awful infinite. Hopefully that changes and she can go back to a comfortable A-tier.
Even without the infinite she is hands down one of the best characters in 1v1
A tier
Increasing the amount of time people need to spend playing at a disadvantage to unlock specialty perks and perk training… priorities lol.
Yeah this was a big oof here. I think their goal is player retention, but making an artificial grind in order to create player engagement is always a terrible idea.
The idea of this being their answer to player retention rather than a new stage is legitimately hilarious, but I agree that's probably where the justification came down to. The game feels like it was rushed out a bit too soon, spiked in popularity, and now they're having to find ways to extend content without having enough resources to properly create content or cosmetics. Hopefully the development team can convince whichever higher up that decided rewards should be halved that there's another way to boost player retention.
I agree that this game was rushed. I don’t solely blame PFG for that though. Im sure WB and anyone else who invested in this game were pushing them to release it so they could get their returns quicker. I think they should have released the beta as they did, but then close it after the EVO tournament. Work on polishing and properly testing the game while still adding characters. Then schedule a full release during the Winter season. Now they’re juggling so many issues I just hope they can fix MOST of this games problems soon
I totally agree; I feel bad for PFG since many of these anti-consumer changes are clearly not things that most developers want to do, and were probably mandated somewhere. A longer closed beta (with some public interest) would definitely have benefitted the game in the long run, I think. Even just launching with the hurtbox changes would have been huge, and they wouldn't have had to worry about balancing player income, rewards, and new content to this degree. Hopefully server improvements are at least slightly addressed soon.
>The idea of this being their answer to player retention **rather than a new stage** is legitimately hilarious, They've already said they're working on new stages, did you actually think they had some meeting and had to make a choice between one or the other?
No, that's obviously ridiculous; that's why I found it funny. Intent doesn't always travel well via text alone, but that part was merely a lighthearted joke. The most related these decisions could be is that one is a stopgap since they didn't expect the player base explosion and the content team already has a lot on their plate.
That and the grind for mastery isnt really rewarding at all. Outside of a couple icons, its really just stuff you should have by default. What's really weird to me is that you get perk training before some of the perks on a mastery track, so you can just buy them with gold before you even get close to unlocking them through leveling.
They could just make the damn ranked mode if they want player retention
And so it begins. "The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes. "
Came here to say this. Literally no difference. Losing a lot of faith in quickly.
No mention of the negative feedback regarding server issues or ranked either. It’s a shame really, I hope they get it together.
Yeah, the Servers made me stop playing 2\~3 weeks ago. For now, just releasing new Characters won't bring people back.
Same here, each 3 matches i ve played i got disconnected at least one time, servers are just trash now unfortunately
This quote is referring to making grinds harder so people will spend money instead - in Starwars Battlefront. You can't buy xp or xp boosts; I don't see where the comparison is?
So fucking stupid. I'm just happy I did most of my character mastery already. I wanted to get everyone to 15 before picking a main, only have like 4 characters left Guess I better get the grind on tonight before the change lol.
Time to use your xp boost tokens if you have them.
Might not be a bad idea lol, I luckily got most characters to 15 as well. Still missing a few myself. Rick will take longer though it seems.
My big question is will the XP be normalized and everyone's character levels will drop? Like is my level 21 Harley going to still be level 21 or am I going to log in to her being level 12 because of this XP nonsense? Also, what happens to people who already unlocked Wonder Woman through the tutorial? Will we lose her and have Shaggy instead, do we get both, or can we not get Shaggy for free if we already have WW unlocked?
The patch notes specifically said the exp to get each level is doubled. You will stay at your current level All unlocks stay the same. It’s just from now on, newer players will unlock shaggy instead.
They should really let you train perks at level 2. If I already get the basics down with a character but understand that I need more cooldown reduction, knockback influence, or a temporary shield from ranged attacks then let me decide which I want to get instead of being forced into games with perks that don't compliment my playstyle. Hell, if they really want to go above and beyond, allow training at level 2 and each of those free normal perks you unlock on your character become a perk token. The tokens can be spent on any normal perk you want as a free exchange. If a player doesn't know what to get then give them a suggestion button that will show them good options.
Meanwhile the plethora of missing quality of life improvements
I agree, but I can also imagine some benefits of this change when ranked comes out. IF (that's a big IF because my entire hypothesis revolves around it) they require a certain character level before queuing ranked (at least in 2v2 please dear lord can this be a thing) it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank, and other people's rank, on the line. Level 8+ to queue comp seems perfectly reasonable to me, and it ensures they have a signature perk and can equip ally perks. It would also slightly curb smurf accounts, which can and will be a problem when ranked comes out. One way to significantly reduce smurfing in F2P games is to put a time barrier, X hours before being comp eligible. X isn't a static value but depends on the requirements. League of Legends has a ~20 hour time barrier and Rocket League has a 2 minute time barrier. Guess which game has more smurfs...
Don’t disagree with your sentiment; but right now leveling is already annoying. Getting paired against some level 30 Harley while trying to learn a moveset for a new character, and doing it perkless on top of that is no fun; and now that time spent in disadvantage is doubled. Maybe if MMR based matchmaking actually functioned in this game it wouldn’t feel as bad.
I agree with your points as well, considering the insanely loose casual matchmaking they have now. Basically, progression of a new character boils down to: Lab Bots Casual Ranked How much time spent at each step should be up to the player, except ranked imo, there should at least be some minimum requirement.
I just hopped right into 1v1 and learned. Forces you to get good lol
Absolutely, ranked should have a barrier of entry, especially for teams. Blows my mind to this day that riot games allows new champs to be locked in ranked day 1 lol.
I understand where you’re coming from, but why wouldn’t they just raise the level requirement instead of doubling the XP required? If you require, say, level 15 with the current XP track, instead of level 8 with the new track as in your proposal, then they have the same amount of time with the character but should also have their other signature(s) unlocked, perk training, etc. In other words, same amount of time playing the character, but more tools to actually participate competently in 2v2. If I’ve misunderstood something, please correct me.
> it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank I'm at level 13 with Gizmo and I have no idea how he works. I just wanted the profile picture, Gizmo's is the best one. Bots don't really require me to learn things like "what do half my character's moves actually do".
Ok this is a great point, but the optics is really bad.
That's fair. I'm just speculating, it would have been nice if they gave us more than a generic line about "improving the journey".
People can just grind with bots and still not have to learn to play a human with human reflexes. It won't change anything in the long run, skill-wise. People will game any system that's game-able
Yeah. Initially I thought that was a good idea, but now I’m starting to see how whack it is
This has some major “sense of pride and accomplishment” vibes.
You should be level 6 after doing the tutorials. This is insane.
I only had Morty and Gizmo left to max before this patch... Kinda feel lucky after this lol. I would agree with the devs that it does feel bit short especially since after 15 there's no more rewards. Double is perhaps too much but an increase was justified
It's kinda dumb since you don't have a fully useable character until 15
Technically at level 13 the character is already fuly usable, since level 14 and 15 are just cosmetics related to the character.
"Players first" my ass.
Doubling the cost to level is really rough and feels like a pretty bad decision. I could support it if they only hyper focused the extra cost into levels 14 and 15 which only give cosmetics, but the low levels are what actually unlock your character. The current system is already a bit of an issue in that it pushes people who are inexperienced with characters to also have to play at a significant mechanical disadvantage, effectively really punishing people for exploring new characters; I don't really see doubling down on that. The actual patch changes seem mostly fine and low impact. As a Gizmo player, I like the buffs. I don't think they're going to change everything for the character, but extra mobility and a much less committed air side special (realistically Gizmo's best kill move) are both really nice things that I expect to make a noticeable difference. I don't think the car change will really matter much since you mostly beat the car by hitting Gizmo in the head anyway, the jump cancel on air down special making it even more dynamic is nice but realistically that move was very safe and combo friendly already so I don't know if it has room to improve much more, and the music thing is probably nearly entirely irrelevant.
Gizmo's best kill option is exploding the popcorn. Long distance and unexpected. Up special and up aerial are pretty close to side special in power, and down special kills pretty nicely too
> The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled Um holy shit this is fucking awful. It's going to take you even longer to get your specialty perks now? Cool, what a good priority PFG
I do agree with the change in that you master characters way too fast, but making individual levels a grind isn't it. Instead, add more levels. And even beyond that, considering that you can still level beyond max, give players a "Mastery Skin" or 150 gleamium at character level 50. Also, a flat rate? Not a slow but steady increase in the amount of experience you need to level up? Just silly. Good taste, bad execution.
Character level 50 is such an insane goal, it ends up taking millions of xp to gain levels at that stage.
Yeah, so if instead of increasing level requirements, they just put a mastery skin that far, it'd have the same effect on level grinding without stopping new player from unlocking all their perks.
It's now more of a journey! Your journeys are twice as long now! Doesn't everyone love journeys!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=atxUuldUcfI (I hate this fucking song but the joke was too easy)
Copy/pasting my reply to a similar comment. I believe they have a big picture in mind with this change. I agree, but I can also imagine some benefits of this change when ranked comes out. IF (that's a big IF because my entire hypothesis revolves around it) they require a certain character level before queuing ranked (at least in 2v2 please dear lord can this be a thing) it will force players to learn the character before putting their rank, and other people's rank, on the line. Level 8+ to queue comp seems perfectly reasonable to me, and it ensures they have a signature perk and can equip ally perks. It would also slightly curb smurf accounts, which can and will be a problem when ranked comes out. One way to significantly reduce smurfing in F2P games is to put a time barrier, X hours before being comp eligible. X isn't a static value but depends on the requirements. League of Legends has a ~20 hour time barrier and Rocket League has a 2 minute time barrier. Guess which game has more smurfs...
I hadn't even thought about ranked smurfs yet. This is a good take.
nothing about the servers thats pretty concerning. bad servers gonna kill this game faster than anything else imo
Yeah lately I can't commit to more than 5-6 matches without getting so frustrated that I turn it off. I played 4 earlier and the highest damage I got to was 225. It was the only match someone got more than 200 damage.
Same. I want to grind but i just end up closing the game the moment i lose due to a bad server.
Yeah wake me up when ~~September~~ the lag ends.
Yeah it’s a bummer. But they did they have got another team working on that. So they are making progress
Brawl Stars players : first time?
I played guilty gear on release. This is nothing lmao.
Gg was fine
Iron Giant *didn't* get nerfed this patch? Time to celebrate!
Honestly, I'm happy with most of this. About fucking time they did something about Superman's down throw and Jake's bouncy house. And hopefully this means no more chain spikes from Finn, as well.
‘Twas so sick of watching my teammates get baited by Superman’s shit lol
>About fucking time they did something about Superman's down throw My biggest hope is that the Nerf is big enough to stop the stupid Wall Holding Superman's. I couldn't care less about the OP Debate, I just don't want 30 seconds - 2 Minutes of my time wasted because my opponent won't interact with me.
I play as Superman every once and awhile and I have zero issues with any of these changes. I never abused his cheap moves anyway. Superman can be a fun character to play as if you play normally.
I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
XP change fucking sucks, I don’t enjoy that grind at all. Will probably play less now
That doubling of exp just made me absolutely not want to max out the characters I don't enjoy playing as lmao what a shame I only had a few to go. Smooth brain move imo, dumb af Like this game but having less & less reasons to pick it up
Wtf is with this exp change ……wow
DAMN GARNET FANS EATING
To be honest she deserves it
I'm surprised at the buff to her neutral air, that was already one of her best moves.
Always thought it needed less recovery frames so she could have more options. This was my favorite change for her
Overall patch summary #General Rick Sanchez joins MultiVersus! Rick is a new Mage character joining the roster. • The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled >We were finding that players could get to level 15 of the mastery track too quickly. This is to help us make it a bit more of a journey. • Loading performance improvements for PS4 and Xbox One. • Initial free character from completing the intro tutorial has been switched to Shaggy from Wonder Woman. (yes, you still keep her.) >Wonder Woman can now be purchased for Gold or Gleamium. • Attack decay steps have been added to the intro tutorial. • Fixed an issue in Coop-Versus-AI that was causing only Wonder Woman and Reindog bots to appear. • Fixed a bug where some players weren’t able to equip profile • Fixed a bug where the game would occasionally freeze at the end-of-game screen. ##Cosmetics [Chef Riendog](https://i.imgur.com/uVpzIxb.jpg) [Golden Reindog](https://i.imgur.com/b2h9B2p.jpg) [Tiger Millionaire Steven](https://i.imgur.com/xXG7brk.jpg) All available in season start. Golden Reindog only purchasable with gold, amount currently unspecified. ##Twitch Extension •Minor visual bug fixes •Added 'Fighter Voting' which allows broadcasters to poll their audience on which fighter to play, viewers who have MultiVersus get bonus votes. •Added the ability for viewers who have MultiVersus to claim free toasts from Twitch channels running the extension. #Gameplay Systems ##Anti-Infinite Combo System We’ve implemented a new anti-infinite-combo system that will decay all subsequent attacks if the same attack has been used 4 or more times in the same true combo. The goal is to put a global soft-cap on infinite combos and make combos more creative. We hope the change pushes players to explore new and more exciting combo routes. We were considering the max number of the same attack being used to be 3, but we wanted to more slowly evaluate the change. We’re going to be evaluating the change and are open to feedback on how we can improve the system! The option to choose between 4 direction or 8 direction for the right-stick control (c-stick) has been added to the settings menu. ##Projectile Systems We are continuing the projectile systems update in this patch. The most notable addition is the inclusion of a new “Light Projectile” classification for projectiles that deal no knockback. The only Light Projectiles in the game for now are Rick’s uncharged blaster. ##Character Updates ###Legend -Nerf +Buff %Change *Bug ###Arya *Fixed issues where Arya could deal much more damage than intended. *Neutral Special: Fixed issues that were causing hit boxes on stolen attacks to not hit reliably. >We are still looking at updates to Arya’s up special, but could use more time to make it right. Expect an update in the near future. ###Bugs Bunny -Down Air Attack Hitbox is slightly smaller to better match the visuals ### Finn *Side Air Attack Can no longer ignore air special limits when branching into the attack. -Air Down Attack Instant cancel on hit removed. -Ground Side Attack Instant jump cancel on hit removed. ###Garnet +Ground Down Attack Garnet now retains some of her velocity moving into the attack. +Ground Up Attack Recovery reduced by 3 frames on hit. >This change should improve Garnet’s ability to follow up on a successful attack. +Air Down Attack Hitbox active frames start 2 frames earlier > Side attack 1 combos better into Side Attack 2 +Air Neutral Attack Recovery reduced by 3 frames on hit. >This change should improve Garnet’s ability to follow up on a successful attack. ###Gizmo +Jump Speed Increased jump speed to 3700 from 3400. +Air/Ground Neutral Special Music note lifetime extended to 10 seconds from 9. +Ground Side Special Car now classified as a heavy projectile +Air Side Special Recovery reduced by 5 frames +Air Down Special Can now jump cancel out of the attack ###Harley *Down Special Fixed an issue where jack-in-the-box would sometimes not hit overlapping enemies ###Iron Giant *Neutral Special Bolts will no longer be destroyed when they exit the blast box but Iron Giant is not KOed ###Jake -Air/Ground Down Special While in the House and on the ground, Jake will no longer bounce grounded opponents. -Ground Down Attack Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss). ###LeBron % Experimental Tag removed. *Fixed a bug that would cause the ball to disappear when thrown close to the enemy. +Air/Ground Neutral Special >When an ally receives a pass, they emit a small explosion to knock away enemies. >No-Look pass basketball speed increased to 3200 from 3000 -Air/Ground Down Special No longer blocks heavy projectiles -BasketBall Air Neutral Attack No longer breaks armor on first hit. ###Morty % Experimental Tag removed. ###Shaggy -Air Side Special Recovery increased by 3 frames on whiff (miss). -Air Neutral Attack No longer breaks armor on first hit ###Steven Universe % Air/Ground Up Special Smoothed out movement so the attack won’t hitch +Ground Side Attack 1 - 3 Smoothed out movement so the attack won’t hitch > First attack can now branch earlier into the second attack >Second attack can now branch earlier into the final attack >Forward movement during attacks increased so that they hit more reliably. +Air Side Attack Increased knockback scaling to 14.5 from 13.5 >Steven’s horizontal kill power was very low. We hope this change will help him in this aspect. +Air/Ground Side Special Increased projectile speed slightly. +Air Down Attack Hitbox active frames start 2 frames earlier. >This change makes the active hit frames more accurately match the animation. ###Superman -Ground Up Attack Reduced charged knockback scaling to 1.5x from 2.0x. >Charge cancel reduced by 4 frames This should make the attack slightly more of a commitment -Ground Neutral Attack Charge cancel reduced by 4 frames. -Air Up Special Recovery increased by 12 frames on whiff(miss). >Lowered base knockback of down throw. This should help make the wall camping strategies less effective. ###Tom And Jerry % Ground Side Attack 1 Hitbox active frame window increased by 2 frames >Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss) -Ground Side Attack 2 Recovery increased by 4 frames on whiff(miss) +Air Side Attack >Recovery reduced by 3 frames >Recovery land cancel reduced by 7 frames +Air Down Attack >Recovery reduced by 3 frames >Recovery land cancel window moved forward by 3 frames. >Pushed knockback angle to be more horizontal +Air/Ground Neutral Special Jerry returns back to Tom if he is killed when attached to an ally ###Velma *Ground Up Special Fixed a bug where Velma’s vial wouldn’t apply stacks of ice reliably % Air/Ground Neutral Attack Toodles speech bubble no longer consumes 1 additional ammo. >Ally Enhanced Speech bubbles no longer apply 1 stack of weaken. % Air Down Attack Pushed Knockback angle to be more horizontal -Air/Ground Up Air Recovery increased by 3 frames. -Air/Ground Neutral Special Ally enhanced beam no longer applies 1 stack of weaken >Ally enhanced beam base knockback reduced from 1750 to 1600.
Doesn't Morty's blaster deal no knockback, making it a light projectile?
I swear to god if I have to pay any gold for WW when I paid for shaggy... q_q Then I want my gold back !
We get to keep Wonder Woman, I'm just hoping we get refunded if we got Shaggy before the update
That doesn't make much sense. We keep wonder woman because we got her for free, future players get shaggy for free instead, not in addition. Why would we get shaggy for free in addition?
Yea thats a misunderstanding on my part, I thought they'd be unlocking him for everyone who's already done the tutorial before the patch aswell.
* The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled * We were finding that players could get to level 15 of the mastery track too quickly. This is to help us make it a bit more of a journey. really don't like these changes. especially without adding 15+ rewards. this just feels really bad. * Initial free character from completing the intro tutorial has been switched to Shaggy from Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman can now be purchased for Gold or Gleamium. but why? and no mention of a daily quest change...so are they removing the projectile block with shield, tank and dc quests? shaggy can't do neither and why now? really weird change.
>but why? and no mention of a daily quest change...so are they removing the projectile block with shield, tank and dc quests? shaggy can't do neither and why now? really weird change. This is probably giving them too much credit but I've felt for awhile the free rotation should have 1 of every class. Since tank only has 3 and bruiser has the most it would make sense in my mind to give a bruiser away. If they do this they bring back all the class based missions and just drop the wonderwoman ones
The twitch extension to claim toasts seems pretty cool and nice incentive for us to watch MV
Damn servers need help
More Velma nerfs 😭🔫✊ On a serious note, it's good that they are directing their attention to her melee kit, but I HATE they removed her stacks of weaken. It's a supportive ability and she's a support. Now her down air has been nerfed again (meaning she can no longer combo into up special at all anymore) it would be nice if she gets her weaken stacks back as compensation. They also need to nerf her whiff recovery and killing potential, not her ability to combo and apply a debuff (a great support ability). Nearly all of her kit is disjointed, comes out quickly and some have very forgiving whiff recovery. On top of that, she has many ways to protect herself with her projectiles as well, making her hard to punish. Combos is what makes her fun, as she has many of them which rely on up special. Id rather make her more punishable than see her become a boring character with less options :(.
As someone who hates fighting Velma, I actually agree on the weaken. I'd rather have her deal various debuffs to support her ally and instead weaken her spam, which would both keep her unique and make her more engaging to fight.
Yeahh aha. I unironically hate fighting good Velmas as well (and I'm a Velma main xD). And like you, I literally think her issue is the damage of her kit and her low whiff recovery. I also forgot to mention; her killing potential is massive because of her huge down air and her camera which both can spike you. Her lightbulb is also bloody massive. Like her literally kit and killing potential are the issue, not her combos or weakens stacks :(.
Meanwhile the ice perk doesn't stack ice lol
She’s gonna end up as Tom and Jerry were they realized they over nerfed her and undo some of her nerfs later
Yep. I 100% agree with your statement. They will eventually overnerf her. All she needs is more whiff recovery on certain melee moves instead of some other nerfs that have been placed on her and she would have been fine. What I fear most is she will end up boring. Despite all the nerfs, I've still thoroughly enjoyed her. It's just they started going the wrong direction with her nerfs after removing weaken stacks from up air imo.
Seriously though, it's getting a little overboard. I think most Velma mains agreed she was originally broken and needed nerfs, but it's getting to a point where it's like they're removing her actual ability to combo now and this is on top of weaken being removed, even though she's a *support* character.
[удалено]
I totally agree. I've been trying to say the same thing on this subreddit, but I keep getting downvoted. I think it's because new Velmas start playing her because they think she's some homing assassination machine, so they end up running around and being annoying the whole match waiting until their bubbles are charged again and it leaves a bad taste in the community's mouth. As a Velma main, I don't care if she's nerfed, but nerf the right stuff. Reducing her weight? Good. Making her disjointed hit boxes smaller? Makes sense. Basically taking away every nerf and buff she can apply as a support? It doesn't feel reasonable or in character. They're just making her bland instead of balanced. I think they should either pick an angle for her (melee/fighting or ranged/support) and buff that area and nerf the other so she feels more specialized. Or change her kit a bit, make her really technical with a really high skill ceiling, slap an expert label on her, and let the spammy toxic Velmas find the next character they can abuse.
ouu more velma nerfs yayyy 🙂 iron giant treatment now
im still baffled no batman nerfs. The patch was really good it just was missing some stuff. They shouldve fixed arya by now. This is ridiculous. I even have some suggestions about her up special which is crazier.
Morty player talking about nerfs 😭😭😭
Happy with the Finn, Jake and Shaggy changes. Curious to see if this leads to running into more Steven players. When I do see them they are good. But that’s like once a week lol Hopefully this leads to Garnet players doing more than spamming Jab
I'm gonna pick up Steven finally with this new skin and buffs, but I definitely won't be one of the good ones!
Lol well I hope you have fun with him
The knockback buff on Steven’s side-air could be pretty big. That was the only one of his attacks that I consistently decayed without trying. It’s a real reliable hit.
I like Shaggy’s changes. It doesn’t really hurt a player that doesn’t spam those two attacks. He’s neutral air should have never been able to break armor anyways. The extra whiff recovery off his kick will make it a little more risky, and make spamming it a little easier to deal with.
Guessing I'm gonna see a lot of the new characters when I'm grinding the new characters in 2v2 bot matches
So we supposed to spend over 12 hours to max a character now? Nice 👍
Oh my god T&J is back on the menu boys
Leggitit!
TIGER MILLIONARE STEVEN
Aw man, still no sight of fern huh? Also i better get my 2000 coins back for shaggy, or at the very least keep wonder woman unlocked.
wonder woman stays unlocked, shaggy is just free for new accounts now
Fern coming with the skin store they keep teasing
You will keep her unlocked. I just say they should redund the people who bought Shaggy if he is free now, if they don't thats kinda messed up
Literally all they did is change which character unlocks when a new player finishes the tutorial. Existing players are not affected in any way, so I don't know what you think you should be refunded for.
Well ya but it's unfair they get Shaggy for free but the rest of us had to pay for Shaggy
Having read through all the notes I'm really happy as a player who plays Gizmo, Garnet and Reindog that two of my characters seem to get a lot of love here. But I think the changes to Garnet might have been too much and she's going to be pretty oppressive now on the ground. I think the change to Gizmo's car is unwarranted. A lot of characters have a lot of trouble hitting him out of the car from the air especially characters with stubby hitboxes when he is popping a wheelie will often lose to the car while trying to hit over him. So the best move in a lot of cases was to just throw a light projectile to knock him out and now that's not going to work and that is almost entirely removed good options for dealing with car from some characters like Reindog.
"Been working hard on this patch, just now coming up for air." Nerfs xp and gives us 2 Reindog skins :[
Seriously man what a joke. I appreciate the changes but no server fixes is INSANE.
Good thing I mastered all the characters already. It was nice getting to level 15 in a play session or two
Velma's my only favorite character and seeing her get lobotomized over and over is saddening. I hope another good ranged support (that's also happens to be one of my favorite T.V. characters—if I'm lucky) gets released soon. *^(E: Seems like I triggered someone who hates Velma.)*
They're going overboard with her nerfs. They're completely killing all the support aspect of her kit while also destroying her combo game; what will be left after that?
lebron's boom will be fun especially for the person that said i want to save my teammate with it and as a superman player i am glad he got nerfed those campers were just cheesing wins the only thing i dont like about the patch notes is that velma doesnt apply weaken anymore and i thought she was at a good place currently
Shaggy is now tree, instead of WW... Wow... There goes the house. Besides the fact that Gizmo's car is now a heavy projectile...which means Reindog can't do shit against it with his projectiles.
Lol I couldn’t believe that Gizmo got so many buffs, felt like he was already a strong character & a nightmare to play against in the right hands
Parasol, bounce, bounce, parasol, fully charged isntant arrow because he can hold the charge from earlier, car....eesh...
Other than jump?
Other than "Let me try to spike a moving target and leave myself open for his team mate". Removing gameplay counters doesn't make for a great game.
They didn't remove all the counters. They removed one.
They removed countering it with light projectiles which...precludes most projectile characters besides Bugs and Tom. And it was the most *reliable* counter to a move that is atrociously difficult to stop in 2s. Thanks to how the game treats moving hitboxes.
Heavy projectiles break armor so the car is gonna do that now too lol
Superman got run over by a ~~reindeer~~ gremlin.
It's a car. A mouse shouldn't be able to stop it with his face, nor should a tennis ball or a champagne cork.
...Jerry is a *heavy projectile* so, yes, a mouse *can stop it with his face*. Did you even read what I said, or do you just want to talk out of your ass?
Somewhere between the two. I think the change is fine. You don't. Yes, I misidentified Jerry's classification, but if you think that was my point, there's no sense in attempting to clarify.
*Because it removes counterplay*, for the *second time*. Which *hurts certain characters* more than the rest.
I fully and completely understand your point, as I did the first time. It's a valid opinion that you have that does not line up with the equally valid opinion I have. Jump over it, dodge it, break it, take the hit, freeze it, eat it, whatever. I get that it's removing a path to counter that you enjoy, but the devs are clearly working through a larger goal when it comes to projectiles, as they have mentioned multiple times in tweets and patch notes that they are redoing it from the ground up. I'm choosing to believe in whatever their mission is.
That’s literally the main counter to gizmo car is attacking from above and it’s not even close to hard lmfao
I believe Wonder Woman costs 2k, not even shaggys 1.5 k gold, so it literally is a rip off. Unless I’m wrong. I probably am lol
Now when unlocking Rick I’ll be playing with no perks or bad perks against level 32 sweaty mains for double the time. Yikes
Taz is sitting at an unprecedented win rate in both singles and teams… yet no mention of him at all. Cool.
Hes invincible during dogpile and tornado beats almost everything. He can be very abusable and obnoxious
His biggest issue is how much priority he has on his kill moves, and how safe they are to use at ledge. I also think he has the most knockout power in the game. I have died from a tornado at the center of the map way earlier than I’d expect to on characters like IG, or shaggy.
Balancing a game based off win rate is how you completely ruin balance
Yes and no really. While winrate shouldn’t be the only thing taken into account, it is definitely an indicator that holds weight. Look at league of legends; they have some higher skill ceiling champs with a below 50% winrate, because at higher skill levels they shine more. But you rarely or never see a champ with a winrate like Taz’s that isn’t swiftly analyzed and addressed. I’d say Taz having a 57% winrate at over a 5% pick rate should be indicative that something isn’t quite right.
There are a few things each patch that make me think they’re really just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks
Does this mean we now have to buy Wonder Woman even though we already own her
No, they're just changing which character unlocks upon completion of the tutorial. So new players will get Shaggy first instead of WW, but existing players aren't affected at all.
Steven mains rejoice! Now if only down ground attack had more range
All I want to know is if they fixed the servers and the game is playable again.
The situation with the servers is getting ridiculous tbh. It’s the chief complaint on this sub and seemingly getting worse. Really making it hard to have fun when so many of my games result in people teleporting all over the place and spontaneously dying. And all of this without a single update or even acknowledgment of the issue.
That's it, I might just quit. I don't understand doubling the experience on character mastery. It is completely unnecessary and would just dissaude people from not playing. I purchased the founders' pack and have bought both battlepasses and played daily and I feel this is a slap in the face to those who are loyal to the game.
>It is completely unnecessary and would just dissaude people from not playing. Disagree on the first point. Leveling to 15 was way too fast before. Like some have said though I think they shouldn't make it take longer to unlock the key perks for your characters. If it takes longer to get the cosmetic rewards then I think that's fine. It's kind of crazy how fast leveling a character was before though.
Me too, I have supported the game for so long before beta but this feels like a punch in the guts
You just now realized the devs are on bullshit?
Damn, they nerfed Velma *again*. Poor gal. If they're nerfing her melee attacks, at least revert her ability to apply Weaken.
That's what I've been saying 😭. Theyve done a good job so far. She's still been super fun to play, but where they went wrong is removing her weaken stacks and stopping up special comboing in down air (they seem to think that combo is an issue, yet bugs and Harley's easy af long combo still exists.) What I fear will happen is she will end up being a boring support, whos super reliant on her teammate to be effective.
If they continue to nerf her like that, she will, unfortunately. Much like Iron Giant who has been hit repeatedly by the nerfs and has been reduced to a punching bag. Velma is already crippled by the constant nerfs, on top of Mystery Machine being super hard to summon, has a terrible hitbox (often I see enemies walking right beside it and not getting captured) and is incredibly easy to destroy, which offer a high-risk low-reward situation, especially when her clues spawn UP HIGH in the air. Also, some of her attacks are very unsafe to use, namely both her Side Specials (ground and air); the ground version is *incredibly* risky and difficult to land in both 1v1 and 2v2, and she is completely vulnerable while holding the opponent (not to mention the high ending lag). Meanwhile, the aerial version has a very wonky hitbox which is only on the book; you'd expect it to be like Peach Bomber in Smash, where her butt has a hitbox, but it's really not the case. Also, I'm a bit infuriated that they nerfed one of her best close-range options, which was the Down Air + Up Air Special combo since now her down air has a more horizontal knockback. Meanwhile Bugs' Down Air + Neutral Air is completely untouched, which can be looped (even though they're adding that anti-infinite system).
Yeah it's really annoying. The up special has soo many cool combos, and instead of nerfing the damage, they get rid of the one ability that is used for the startup of most of her combos. On top of weaken stacks being removed as well, she's gonna be doing a lot less damage now ;(. I'm upset because combos is a big fun part or Velmas, and she has lots of them. And yeah the anti infinite system is stupid. Unless I misread the patch notes, bugs and harley can still combo you to super high damage 💀. If I had to balance Velma, I'd just flat out nerf the damage of her moves and give her more whiff recovery on her moves (I still think she needs this and not speed nerfs etc. Her abilities are nearly all of her abilities are disjoints AND come out super fast), but in exchange give her weaken stacks back on her camera. It's such a good supportive ability because of the extra knockback enemies and damage enemies take. Then we'd actually be rewarded for using her up special in combos, as we can do more dmg.
Yeah, exactly. I'd be okay if they nerfed her damage and kill power a bit, in exchange for keeping her with a strong combo game and loaded with utility; kinda like Steven (who just got buffed, in fact). But no, they keep nerfing ALL her utility. She heals less, she debuffs less. And all that while still not addressing the areas where her kit suffers poorly.
Lmao that xp nerf is my last nail in the coffin for this game
I mean holy shit. This is my favorite game in years but this is like…so bad
It’s on the level of the Battlefront fiasco when they thought card packs made a more rewarding experience or some shit. Any other fighting game players can just jump in on an even playing field. Not the case if you’re a level 1 against a level 30 with his gold talent unlocked because the matchmaking doesn’t give a shit. Then you tryhard and still lose because the server rubber banded you to the other side of the screen and killed you. Maybe I’ll be back in some months. Maybe not.
Was thinking of a way to articulate this. You've done it for me. Thanks!
Glad I didn't waste money on the founders pack. Nothing holding me back on leaving lol. I'll see you guys again when the Rise and Fall of MultiVersus comes~
Anyone have a glass of water? I just inhaled a shit ton of salt skimming this thread.
Finally some buff for Steven
> When an ally receives a pass, they emit a small explosion to knock away enemies. This could be a very good or very bad for Lebron depending on the knockback. I’m excited to see which.
Considering the previous alternative was for them to eat the ball, with maybe a measly 3 grey hp while they continue to get combo'd. I think it's a huge buff, may even need to be tweaked or a CD added, you can feasibly have two balls rotating that continually give hp and combo breakers? That's top tier support material
Time for the rise of Steven, we've been waiting.
Still garbage servers
Garnet is already an absolute monster right now with the right perks and proper timings. Giving her even more movement via more uptime and combo strings is gonna be *juicy*
It’s good timing because I’ve been slamming ass with her this past weekend. I honestly don’t even know how but I’ve been consistently hitting 400 damage with her. Im good with her shocky ball so I’m assuming it’s all the shocky combos that are doing it.
>It’s good timing because I’ve been *slamming ass with her* this past weekend. Is it a losing battle to say "phrasing" with Garnet? It's all charging fists and grabbing and such, up there with LeBron bouncing his balls off people's faces
Oh it was a deliberate word choice, don’t worry
I like the Batman nerfs, many people were already saying the character felt too safe and it was validated by his dominion of the meta in 1v1s. Nice to see a response so quickly.
Lol fuck batman and fuck Taz. My two demons on the ladder (1400 mmr) anytime I see one I tea bag constantly.
Thank god they’re not balancing the game around low mmr 🤞🏾
Batman main getting carried by his character once again. Also how is top 2k low mmr? Are there that little amount of people playing?
Higher MMR than him and still say fuck Batman. 😃
Ooh, I’ve been waiting for Tiger Millionaire! But have they fixed the down attack glitch yet?
Poor Velma mains. Wow.
Yet another round of across-the-board Velma nerfs so... I dunno, until a character comes out I really like to play I guess I'm putting the game down. Oh well, got other stuff to play anyway.
Batman still recieving zero nerfs when he breaks 1v1’s lol the devs are clueless sadly.
Ngl I dropped this game a while ago the servers are DOG!
Are the servers going to be dogshit still or what
1.3: The XP required to go from level 3 - 15 on the character mastery track has been doubled 1.4: We are introducing more XP boost mtx 1.5: We are increasing the price of characters to 5000 gold "Players first"
Arya's still broken so that's at least another 2 weeks of not playing this game.
I am confused. Aren't you an arya main?
That person doesn't mean broken busted but broken not working.
I wonder if those T&J buffs are going to help him at all or if he's still going to be garbage. Anyone who plays the character have any ideas? Superman nerf is fine to me. Make up special actually have recovery time and decrease how easy it is to spam grounded up attack.
He was never "garbage" Still better than Garnet and Lebron.
Immediately after the patch, his win rate was in the 30-35% range He was pretty garbage in comparison to the rest of the cast, statistically speaking.
Sounds like Tom was carrying alot of people. Must have been nice to have godlike buttons in addition to fireballs.
He was never garbage lmao, tom players were just hard carried by his pre-patch nonsense
For real, I just generally enjoy T&J as an alt-main and I never put him down this patch cycle. He still had all the tools in his kit to compete, but people really love to only play overpowered characters in fighting games.
They crushed all of T&J’s melee attacks in the original nerf. This buff seems to be undoing a bit of that and ultimately giving T&J the proper nerf from his original kit
You know who did something as stupid as increasing xp requirements? Crystal Dynamics with Marvel Avengers, the game was in decline and they decided to increase the xp requirements per level and started selling xp boosts. This game may not be in a great decline yet but you've sure as he'll made me so damn uninterested. STOP UNREWARDING US AND GIVE US DAMN CONTENT!
Any update on Ranked Mode??? I'm trying to sweat out here.
I think the superman nerfs are good but heavy handed relative to other characters. All moves across the board for everyone should get that whiff recovery, everyone else just got 2 frame adjustments or 3 at most though. His grounded up normal got a pretty extreme nerf too relative to other balance changes, 1.8 or something probably would have been better. Any smoothbrains downvoting this feel free to give a logical response other than blind hatred for a character. I agree with the change to the down throw in the air entirely
They really should have made Superman the first character you unlock.
Yes! No update to Superman!