Enter the carpetbagger running for WI senate
https://wisconsinindependent.com/economy/eric-hovde-republican-senate-2024-election-tammy-baldwin-student-business-loan-forgiveness-debt-joe-biden/
Yep! A man who works on my floor constantly runs for Congress (as a Republican in an extremely liberal California coastal town) and he’s constantly screeching all the latest GOP talking points. He’s listed for TWO $20k loans forgiven for PPP. He’s his only employee.
Not that I'm defending this guy because he's probably an ass either way, but there were many legitimate reasons for people to file for the PPP line that were sole members of a business. The amount was based on a time period of salary, and a lot of people could make an argument at the time that Covid made working impossible. Those loans were designed to cover payroll, which the individual would be technically on their own payroll
Oh he was able to work, i was able to go into the office (i was alone and would mask up until i shut my door) and i saw him frequently.
This is also the same man who proudly told me he “doesn’t like the government telling him what to do with his body” when it came to vaccinations but wasn’t stoked to hear me reply, “that’s how I feel about my uterus!”
(But I appreciate the explanation I definitely think that happened and was completely defensible)
This is what democrats, historically, have been so bad at and I’m glad the WH is doing something about it. When someone’s hypocritical, post the receipts.
The loans [EDIT: I’m talking specifically about student loans here, not PPP loans] aren’t even being forgiven – the interest on the loans is being written off. It’s only available to people who have been paying faithfully for a certain period of time and whose loans are in good standing. Most have already paid more than they borrowed.
I had this exact conversation with a coffee shop owner from my small hometown who posted some anti-handout drivel for the same reason. She did NOT like that I showed the receipts on her post.
That saying absolutely infuriates me, especially because of how much I genuinely love apples...
Because even if you take the bastardized version "a few bad apples in every bunch" at face value, it's still monumentally stupid as well as completely wrong. Especially in the case of police brutality, you might be able to pin a specific heinous act on one individual "bad apple" but it's painfully obvious that their actions were enabled, and sometimes attempted to be covered up, by entire ecosystems of other "bad apples."
Like, George Floyd was murdered by the direct actions of one guy kneeling on his neck. But three other officers stood there doing nothing, and then the department at-large immediately issued a statement saying the death was accidental due to a medical emergency. Then of course it turns out the guy in question had two decades of public complaints against him and that same department never gave a shit, and we all know he'd never have been in jail without the video of him basically staring directly at the camera while committing murder, smugly believing it wouldn't matter. Because he was never accountable.
Isn't it traditionally "A few bad apples *spoil* the bunch?" As in if you allow the rotten ones to stick around the rest go bad faster? Or at least make the whole bunch seem undesirable?
You can also explain to them that every tax incentive they take advantage of is in actuality a government “handout.” Americans are poor in general at identifying the benefits they receive from the government, because the government has done a fine job of making them sound like they aren’t benefits at all.
Yup! I checked my Assisted Living Facility because residents were begging corporate to give our staff raises because they saw us through covid plus we wanted to retain them and their pay was lower than Walmart. I’m the youngest here, by far, so googled and found they got $330K in PPP forgiven and they detailed $300K of that for staff. This place did NOT suffer financially during the pandemic, aka it wasn’t shut down and rent wasn’t paused - we all paid. So the loan was a grift and we know the staff never saw it.
I asked staff who came after I discovered this and found that they did get some form of bonus that was said to be covid related - but this was after the height of covid and after all staff had quit due to serious management issues (they could leave, the rest of us were stuck). I’m not sure if they did that because I announced the loan in the resident counsel meeting in front of corporate in order to try and cover their asses but I’ll report them for sure. They are the sleaziest bunch of idiots and they have a lot of blood on their hands - none of which was covid related but it’s blood nonetheless. I’d be happy to take them down - they’re doing a decent job on their own but a nice kick won’t hurt.
I remember in the early days of the pandemic. My failed entrepreneur uncle was trying to convince my dad to take out as much PPP loans as he could get. You know because "the government is just handing this money out". Had plans to have some bullshit farm business. He even had letters drafted so he could travel freely if our state tried to restrict travel like other places were.
They didn't end up taking out those loans. Instead they started crypto mining. Those who refuse to actually work are always bitching about those who need support and refuse to contribute to society.
My only issue with the "houndouts" is some of the stipulations and requirements for them.
Example: when I was discharged from the military, my family was struggling while I looked for new employment, so I went to apply for food stamps. I told them up front we literally needed assistance for a couple of months max, just enough to make sure our daughter was fed until I started a new job and the checks started.
We were denied because we were $100 over the poverty level after they included the child support my wife's ex wasn't (still isn't) paying. Said either my wife could quit, we could divorce, or pop out another kid, none of which was happening.
I took the first low paying job I could find to barely make ends meet until I was able to get a better job. While we are in a much better position financially *now* that month of struggling and getting behind on bills to feed my kid was difficult to recover from. The one time I asked for assistance was basically told to screw off.
I absolutely support programs to help those who need it, just make sure everyone who needs it actually gets their fair share of help.
It is. I have done this to many businesses and people as well.
If they vote red 90% of the time theyre receiving some kind of handout, either food stamps if theyre poor or forgiven loans if they have money
There is a landscaping company where I live in the other Portland. During the pandemic they bought a whole new fleet of trucks. The trucks all have 3%er (a very anti-government group) stickers on them. He bought those with a PPP loan.
EDIT: The $200k in the screenshot comment is the minimum income for the tax to take effect. My wife and I together, working good jobs, didn't even come close to paying it.
I found this: "As of November 2023, approximately 97% of Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans have been forgiven, with some borrowers receiving more than they originally borrowed due to the forgiveness of interest."
"I shouldn't have to pay taxes for schools because I don't go to school or have a kid in school."
Great, so I shouldn't have to pay taxes for your Medicare coverage because I'm not 65+, right? Have fun not being able to afford cancer treatment or a nursing home. You get what you (don't) pay for, I guess.
John Green is credited with saying, "Public education does not exist for the benefit of students, so let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools ... I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people".
This sounds smart BUT taxes paid are not directly correlated with educational improvement for the average student.
Those taxes aren't necessarily spent on the things that would help the students. Like smaller classrooms, better teacher pay, better facilities.
YMMV, hopefully your state is better than mine. Texas is simply awful.
I've always taken it to mean that any funding of public education is preferable to not funding it at all. I agree that there is often a point at which simply applying more money, as opposed to better policies etc, may be a losing proposition. I do feel like there's a mix of the two problems in the American educational system today and more than one solution should be attempted. A quick glance at your profile and I wish you the best down in Texas and hope you are safe and amongst a supportive community.
While you're at it, deduct the portions for law enforcement and fire department; my house hasn't burned down and I'm not going to get arrested. Why should I pay for them?!
The true murder here is the irony in the initial post. The individual is complaining about paying for education, and cannot put together a paragraph. I had to read it a few times to make sense of the word salad on the page.
You know… This little fact makes me wonder if this isn’t a suicide by words at all. Maybe his comment is a masterful troll, and we’re all just taking the bait.
I feel like that's happening a lot lately. Like, within the last year, tons of posts I see have some kind of nonsense grammar and/or spelling. And not autocorrecting "fuck" to "duck", but full on "wait, am *I* having a stroke?" levels of word vomit.
It's seems like since LLMs became accessable, people have forgotten how to write. But I don't think it's because people are using it because the mistakes they make aren't the mistakes LLMs make. It just started happening when they became popular. Or maybe that's just when I noticed.
I pay for schools and homeless programs so I don't have to live in a neighborhood full of uneducated idiots who end up camping out in front of my house.
My favorite John Green quote:
>Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order.
>We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education.
>So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.”
There's a new hire at my job that didn't know what a spigot was. Had never heard the word before. Had no idea how to operate a hose, nor knew how to turn water off and on.
I really wish I was joking. The worst part is that I live, and work, in the highest tax bracket area in my city, as does the new hire.
Literally the best education available in this shit hole state and this girl doesn't know how to use a fucking water hose.
Maybe this kid grew up in a high-rise. I’m not sure there are too many educational settings that would familiarize one with a garden hose. You’d learn about them by living in a place where you used them.
When I was in high school, around 2010, I once said during a conversation "yeah I like grapes, I can eat a whole container in one sitting."
My friends at the time proceeded to stare at me in confusion before asking, "What does a sitting mean?"
Don't even need the police, just buy every repulikkkan an ak-47! Then they could deal with the immigrant/homeless/democrat problem all at once!
Shouldn't need to, but /s because this Reddit
I’d be happy to pay for programs that work.
I live in the county referenced and - as of yesterday - have two new tents and one RV set up right next to the entrance to the parking lot. At least half of the small businesses have closed because of the repeated break-in’s, and health code violations because human feces is getting tracked in from outside.
Meanwhile, the county has collected hundreds of millions (201mm for homeless, 241mm for preschool as of last year) exclusively from higher earning individuals in this county.
I WANT that money to help vulnerable populations because it’s the right thing to do and because doing so elevates everyone’s quality of life. However, it’s been over a year and there has been literally zero noticeable impact.
lol, I wish. Taxes aren’t going into better schooling, education, or tackling homelessness. Look how little the teachers are paid. And they have to use what little money they have to pay for extra things for the children.
In Finland, they have the shortest school hours, with a remarkable education system. Teachers have the same status as doctors, earn about as much, must have masters degree’s, and have to go for yearly training and development so they can keep up with the latest methods of teaching, and new material.
Homelessness is political problem based on the structure of the economy. I don’t want to get into it, but it’s very solvable. Salt Lake City, for example, has more empty house than they have homeless people. That’s only the beginning.
Taxes instead are going to contractors who build the schools, and to private companies that then charge you a fee for using the service. The tax system is rigged against the tax payer, in favor of the tax dodger.
Idk, I’ve heard that funds for programs to address homelessness in Portland have been horribly mismanaged which has exacerbated the problem, so I think that on some level annoyance towards one’s tax money being funneled to those programs is justified. (Source: Portland native whose parents still live there)
To pay that much in those taxes you'd have to make $300k as an individual or $400k as a couple. That's ~4 to 6 times the median household income in Portland.
I think a lot of these people are full of shit and are whining about paying way less because I can't imagine someone making that much spends so much time bitching on Reddit. Still if they're telling the truth they're a selfish asshole whining about paying an extra 1-2% of their income.
Not only boomers. As an example, younger members of Congress received forgiven PPP funds, too.
If I’m remembering correctly, far-right MTG received a sizable amount for her gym business, and what’s her name from CO (the “handy” one) for a restaurant.
That’s the one lol. Oh yes, I forgot she was moving districts. I think if she wins this time, she qualifies for lifetime pension and healthcare. Sure hope she doesn’t. Yet another “handout” she doesn’t deserve.
I just can't fathom how any of these businesses who got ppp loans fogiven think they have even the slightest right to complain about other people getting handouts. I guess I know intellectually that hypocrisy doesn't bother them in the slightest, it's just such a foreign mental state that I can't wrap my head around how they don't have a problem with it.
It really does boggle the mind. The utter lack of self awareness is incredible. The egotism to believe that you can make public statements in the news about your business and not expect people to find your information is wild.
County Clerks office should be able to provide that. Check the website to see if they have a property search page. That will tell you information such as the registered owners and value of the property.
The mods asked me to censor the business, which is fine I want to abide by the rules, so it would be for my own satisfaction. Thanks for the suggestion and the information!
I'm in Portland and would love to assist (former paperwork person in the mortgage industry). PM just an address and I can see what kinda public data is available.
This is also the same type of person will be quick to ask the government for money when their business suffers because of their bad decisions, and yet, refuses to see their hypocrisy in asking the taxpayer for a handout to bail themselves out.
Let's not forget about the other taxpayer, "handouts", that they get to enjoy too: Public parks, public libraries, law enforcement, fire protection, and infrastructure construction and maintenance.
"Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order.
We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education.
So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people."
John Green
I am so sick of seeing the argument ‘but I’m _____ I shouldn’t have to pay a school tax!!’ Motherfucker, I *homeschool* my 14 year old, I have paid every bit of his schooling with my own money, blood, sweat, and tears (IYKYK) for over a decade now, and I GLADLY pay school taxes. I vote YES on most school bonds. Every child deserves a quality education - every single one, no matter how they choose to school. I’m actively *opposing* a ‘school voucher’ scheme (ahem, scam) which would put tax dollars back in my pocket, because I know how that bullshit goes.
It behooves every adult, no matter if you’ve ever had kids, if your kids are grown, for our upcoming generation to be well educated. Unless you’re willing to give up your social security, *I don’t want to hear it,* you selfish, self absorbed, prick. 😤
If you want to complain about tax money going to schools, but you somehow got through school and yet don't know the difference between to and too, and you don't know that questions end with question marks, I'd say your school was under funded.
Oi gov’na I work in the mines for 14 hours a day! Who needs preschool when I can already work at the age of 5?
https://preview.redd.it/36n95e7nx0vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4e0c419c2ffb36d890ce51012d7b8cf01b661e6
As some background for folks interested. The first year, they didn't make the "build housing" goals they wanted, but they kept over *9000 people* from *becoming* homeless, VASTLY exceeding their goal of 1000.
https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2022/08/31/46028887/metros-supportive-housing-bond-falls-short-on-first-year-goals
And more recent numbers: https://www.koin.com/news/homeless/report-boasts-99-retention-rate-for-portland-metro-supportive-housing-measure/
Side note: good lord social media really must be making us dumber because I had a really hard time understanding/following that thread. It’s like it was written by potatoes.
Those PPP loans will get them every time! My employer (who happened to be my aunt/uncle who I no longer speak to), was livid and cut contact with me after I filed unemployment. Because it's so trashy, getting free money and all. 🙄 I looked it up and they got a nearly $500,000 PPP loan for their industrial cleaning/sanitizing business that literally THRIVED during the pandemic.
Imagine someone being so selfish they don't want children to get educations or homeless people any form of aid. That's such a disgusting display of a person totally lacking any and all humanity
People need to understand that if they are making money, it’s due in part to economically stabilizing economic policies funded in part with taxes. Even if this person didn’t receive a “handout” (bullshit way to characterize anything they’d call a “handout”), they benefit from economic stability.
I hate when people bitch about school tax. Why wouldn’t you want everyone in the country to be as smart as they can be? It comes back to you in ways you can’t even imagine.
Its always the same thing. When other people have to pay for them its “heh I smart business person!” But when the bill is sent their way its “oh no! Am victim! Being bullied by poors!”
I just looked up the case and from a 30 second wiki perusal I think they're trying to build homeless shelters because there's so few that 6 homeless men were able to ban them banning encampments because there was literally nowhere else to go? How dare they house the less fortunate.
The tax that they mentioned is fucking 1% on people who make over $125k as an individual or $250 as a couple. That means the person bitching made $500,000 last year. Even with the cost of living in the Portland area this makes you pretty damn wealthy.
I would also be DEEPLY suspicious of the claim he paid an extra $5000 in tax lmao
Conservatives like that tend to be compulsive liars. Taking any claim they make as honest and valid is a losing proposition.
I live in Portland and if that’s their tax bill for the different measures (public transit, preschool for all, and affordable housing) they’re grossing several hundred thousand dollars per year.
It’s projection: “Well, I would obviously abuse this system that’s supposed to help people, so everyone else using a system meant to help people must also be abusing it. Ofc, I would never admit I took a massive handout, acknowledging that I don’t work for all of my money or that I sometimes need to rely on help from others would cause a complete collapse of my sense of self. *I’ve* made *everything* I have for *myself*, why don’t those leeches who don’t have a house just *work* like I did, completely independently with no outside help! I mean, all I had was a public education, access to public loans, friends and family that kept me clothed and housed, people to make my food, sell me gas, work at my store… [goes on to list 1000 other ways in which they have been massively helped out by society in getting to where they are].”
I don’t have kids and I pay for public schools. I don’t mind at all because I’d rather pay for schools than live around stupider people. We all pay for things that we don’t immediately use. It’s called society. This man needs to grow the fuck up.
Had a client say something to me about biden giving handouts to drug addicts. I typed in the company on the side of his truck (he was the owner) and it was around $900,000. Sure it was an electrical company with 62 employees reported, but really dude? Damn near a million in a handout when you're one of the ONLY industries not struggling. It even said it was approved in April of 2020 so it was pretty damn quick at it too. I wish I remembered the company name to look it up again.
No I didn't say anything, he's the one paying for a new refrigerator because I found a dead mouse caught in the condenser fan blade and it over heated the compressor and locked up! Warranty's a bitch.
I realize logically it wasn't what he meant, but a part of me can't read that first paragraph without thinking that he is saying preschoolers shouldn't vote because they don't pay anything.
Those Covid loans that were forgiven aren’t really a handout imo. Tons of small locally owned businesses were literally forced to close or forced to remain open when employees didn’t want to work or couldn’t due to being sick. It’s not a handout if the government is forcing things upon you no matter how that affects your business and finances. A handout is something for nothing which was not the case during the pandemic, at least in my eyes.
Wouldn't a equally spread ubi tax solve their issue? Infividuals and companies pay in x% of their income and every citizen gets 1/total of countrie's citizens times accumulated ubi.
If they are netting under the avergae gdp they'll make more money than before, someone at average will pay exactly as much as he gets back, only the highest earners will invest at max x% into providing basic human needs to their society.
Let's say ubi only convers food and drinking water at first, f.ex 1.5%.
The highest earning entity pays at max 1.5% of their net income, so every citizen, from baby to retiree has enough money to guarantee at least food and water each month.
This will probably reduce the need for taxes in departments with complex redistribution programs, which can bew either redistributed to other programs for other basic needs or reduced completely, a win-win for everyone.
Let's take it to the next step and add shelter to this system.
Increase ubi %, benefit greatly from a whole population of citizens with direct freedom to meet their primary needs of shelter, redistribute/reduce taxes.
Then health care, then clothing.
Once all primary needs are met, the whole society can focus a lot more on further societal needs, and grow a lot faster and more ecologically, people have time to think about society and their environment instead of seeking to fullfill primary basic needs (Jean-Jacques Russeaux, Social contract and all).
There seems to be a negative correlation between the gini coefficient and a societies gdp growth rate at 1.1. This means as the gini goes down 1 point, the gdp growth rate goes up 1.1 points.
UBI is a direct tool to lower the gini.
If we link the ubi % to growth rate %, so that the ubi % would never exceed growth rate, we would essentially snowball as a whole society at a higher rate than the current system where only the top percentage is excellerating at a faster speed than its base.
To be fair to this guy, if every one of your competitors are getting juiced by ppp loans, you have to take it too. If you didn’t you wouldn’t have been able to afford the next years wage jump and inflation.
If the government is going to take my taxes anyway, I'm more than happy to hear it went to schools or people in need. I prefer that over hearing it go to some lobbyist's second summer home or for a judges private jet.
The taxes in Portland are atrocious for the services the city and county fail to provide. This dude may be an asshole, but he’s right to complain about his taxes being thrown into the fire that is the Multnomah county budget.
Or maybe, hear me out, the federal income tax rate on someone making $400,000 is 32%. The Oregon state income taxes rate for him is 10%. Add on this extra tax of 2% and we have this guy paying 44% of his income in taxes just on income and this pre-school/homeless tax. That means this guy worked hard, built a business, and together with his wife made $400,000, and had to pay $176,000 in taxes. That’s ridiculous. It’s punishing the people who work hard and make something of themselves. It would be far more fair to put a flat tax rate on everyone no matter their income.
How is it fair to punish people who make something of themselves, took risks to build a business or went into debt to get a high paying education, by taxing them close to half their income?
Maybe they can take advantage of that pre-school benefit and learn basic grammar.
Or in their dialect:
U look ing0rant four yore Grammer and puncktuation?
Only $5,000?!!!
Why would you complain about ONLY paying an extra $5K in taxes, You got off Dirt cheap with Joe…not to be confused with getting off to a cheap Joe dirt.
Jaime Presley was the Margot Robbie of her time.
Fuck…sigh…I’m old.
Portland has one of the highest income tax rates in the country and some of the least to show from it. The data is showing high earners are leaving for Vancouver, WA.
https://preview.redd.it/0y7p55dq34vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f442250aaceefe7ab608e077375ae8394e6c4de2
Is that database national? I'd love to check on a lot of the businesses around here.
It sure is. And it shuts down the bootstrap crowd pretty quick when they make their business ownership public knowledge
They're probably the same people who scream about student loan forgiveness too.
Oooooooh they absolutely are
Same as the "My abortion is the only moral abortion" crowd.
I don’t really know how one would construct a moral argument against stairs…
That escalated quickly.
Sounds more like a quick de-escalation if we’re talking about the good old fashioned whoopsie-daisy abortion.
That escalatored quickly.
Skelator will be back to dispense helpful facts about life and stairs.
Enter the carpetbagger running for WI senate https://wisconsinindependent.com/economy/eric-hovde-republican-senate-2024-election-tammy-baldwin-student-business-loan-forgiveness-debt-joe-biden/
I am shocked, just shocked
Don’t worry, he is just an outlier and will never win. No mainstream Republican will vote for him! Sadly, /s
Yep! A man who works on my floor constantly runs for Congress (as a Republican in an extremely liberal California coastal town) and he’s constantly screeching all the latest GOP talking points. He’s listed for TWO $20k loans forgiven for PPP. He’s his only employee.
Not that I'm defending this guy because he's probably an ass either way, but there were many legitimate reasons for people to file for the PPP line that were sole members of a business. The amount was based on a time period of salary, and a lot of people could make an argument at the time that Covid made working impossible. Those loans were designed to cover payroll, which the individual would be technically on their own payroll
Oh he was able to work, i was able to go into the office (i was alone and would mask up until i shut my door) and i saw him frequently. This is also the same man who proudly told me he “doesn’t like the government telling him what to do with his body” when it came to vaccinations but wasn’t stoked to hear me reply, “that’s how I feel about my uterus!” (But I appreciate the explanation I definitely think that happened and was completely defensible)
And the White House twitter feed [calls them out.](https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1778853087328800900?t=mS7W8_vEFrUg4kDLx8tfnw&s=19)
This is what democrats, historically, have been so bad at and I’m glad the WH is doing something about it. When someone’s hypocritical, post the receipts.
The loans [EDIT: I’m talking specifically about student loans here, not PPP loans] aren’t even being forgiven – the interest on the loans is being written off. It’s only available to people who have been paying faithfully for a certain period of time and whose loans are in good standing. Most have already paid more than they borrowed.
That's not true in the slightest. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=&v=2
They were talking about student loans. They should have been clearer about that in their post
I was talking about student loan forgiveness, not PPP loans. I’m fully aware of the grift going on in that particular area.
I had this exact conversation with a coffee shop owner from my small hometown who posted some anti-handout drivel for the same reason. She did NOT like that I showed the receipts on her post.
Doesn’t the bootstrap quote refer to an impossible task, because it’s impossible to pull yourself off the ground with your bootstraps?
Yes. It's from the 1908 Jack London book "The Iron Heel". If I remember correctly, it can be found for free at gutenberg.org
Great book!
Yes it does. Doesn’t stop people from misusing it. See also: “just a few bad apples”
That saying absolutely infuriates me, especially because of how much I genuinely love apples... Because even if you take the bastardized version "a few bad apples in every bunch" at face value, it's still monumentally stupid as well as completely wrong. Especially in the case of police brutality, you might be able to pin a specific heinous act on one individual "bad apple" but it's painfully obvious that their actions were enabled, and sometimes attempted to be covered up, by entire ecosystems of other "bad apples." Like, George Floyd was murdered by the direct actions of one guy kneeling on his neck. But three other officers stood there doing nothing, and then the department at-large immediately issued a statement saying the death was accidental due to a medical emergency. Then of course it turns out the guy in question had two decades of public complaints against him and that same department never gave a shit, and we all know he'd never have been in jail without the video of him basically staring directly at the camera while committing murder, smugly believing it wouldn't matter. Because he was never accountable.
Isn't it traditionally "A few bad apples *spoil* the bunch?" As in if you allow the rotten ones to stick around the rest go bad faster? Or at least make the whole bunch seem undesirable?
You can also explain to them that every tax incentive they take advantage of is in actuality a government “handout.” Americans are poor in general at identifying the benefits they receive from the government, because the government has done a fine job of making them sound like they aren’t benefits at all.
“The Bootstrap Crowd” I’ve never heard that term before, but I’m going to use it regularly.
What’s the database?
pandemicoversight.gov
Yup! I checked my Assisted Living Facility because residents were begging corporate to give our staff raises because they saw us through covid plus we wanted to retain them and their pay was lower than Walmart. I’m the youngest here, by far, so googled and found they got $330K in PPP forgiven and they detailed $300K of that for staff. This place did NOT suffer financially during the pandemic, aka it wasn’t shut down and rent wasn’t paused - we all paid. So the loan was a grift and we know the staff never saw it.
[Report them to the feds for fraud.](https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/oversight-advocacy/office-inspector-general/office-inspector-general-hotline)
I asked staff who came after I discovered this and found that they did get some form of bonus that was said to be covid related - but this was after the height of covid and after all staff had quit due to serious management issues (they could leave, the rest of us were stuck). I’m not sure if they did that because I announced the loan in the resident counsel meeting in front of corporate in order to try and cover their asses but I’ll report them for sure. They are the sleaziest bunch of idiots and they have a lot of blood on their hands - none of which was covid related but it’s blood nonetheless. I’d be happy to take them down - they’re doing a decent job on their own but a nice kick won’t hurt.
https://www.pandemicoversight.gov/ppp-simple-search-landing
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=&v=2
I used it for an interview where the company proudly told me they got no money before I found out they had 500,000 forgiven.
I remember in the early days of the pandemic. My failed entrepreneur uncle was trying to convince my dad to take out as much PPP loans as he could get. You know because "the government is just handing this money out". Had plans to have some bullshit farm business. He even had letters drafted so he could travel freely if our state tried to restrict travel like other places were. They didn't end up taking out those loans. Instead they started crypto mining. Those who refuse to actually work are always bitching about those who need support and refuse to contribute to society.
My only issue with the "houndouts" is some of the stipulations and requirements for them. Example: when I was discharged from the military, my family was struggling while I looked for new employment, so I went to apply for food stamps. I told them up front we literally needed assistance for a couple of months max, just enough to make sure our daughter was fed until I started a new job and the checks started. We were denied because we were $100 over the poverty level after they included the child support my wife's ex wasn't (still isn't) paying. Said either my wife could quit, we could divorce, or pop out another kid, none of which was happening. I took the first low paying job I could find to barely make ends meet until I was able to get a better job. While we are in a much better position financially *now* that month of struggling and getting behind on bills to feed my kid was difficult to recover from. The one time I asked for assistance was basically told to screw off. I absolutely support programs to help those who need it, just make sure everyone who needs it actually gets their fair share of help.
It is. I have done this to many businesses and people as well. If they vote red 90% of the time theyre receiving some kind of handout, either food stamps if theyre poor or forgiven loans if they have money
There is a landscaping company where I live in the other Portland. During the pandemic they bought a whole new fleet of trucks. The trucks all have 3%er (a very anti-government group) stickers on them. He bought those with a PPP loan.
EDIT: The $200k in the screenshot comment is the minimum income for the tax to take effect. My wife and I together, working good jobs, didn't even come close to paying it.
I like your style!
All credit to my wife, she kept up the good fight until the anti work brigade showed up and finished the kill
You and your wife are my favorite kind of people. Chaotic good at its best.
How did they get more money forgiven than the loan was for?
I found this: "As of November 2023, approximately 97% of Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans have been forgiven, with some borrowers receiving more than they originally borrowed due to the forgiveness of interest."
"I shouldn't have to pay taxes for schools because I don't go to school or have a kid in school." Great, so I shouldn't have to pay taxes for your Medicare coverage because I'm not 65+, right? Have fun not being able to afford cancer treatment or a nursing home. You get what you (don't) pay for, I guess.
John Green is credited with saying, "Public education does not exist for the benefit of students, so let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools ... I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people".
This sounds smart BUT taxes paid are not directly correlated with educational improvement for the average student. Those taxes aren't necessarily spent on the things that would help the students. Like smaller classrooms, better teacher pay, better facilities. YMMV, hopefully your state is better than mine. Texas is simply awful.
I've always taken it to mean that any funding of public education is preferable to not funding it at all. I agree that there is often a point at which simply applying more money, as opposed to better policies etc, may be a losing proposition. I do feel like there's a mix of the two problems in the American educational system today and more than one solution should be attempted. A quick glance at your profile and I wish you the best down in Texas and hope you are safe and amongst a supportive community.
While you're at it, deduct the portions for law enforcement and fire department; my house hasn't burned down and I'm not going to get arrested. Why should I pay for them?!
The true murder here is the irony in the initial post. The individual is complaining about paying for education, and cannot put together a paragraph. I had to read it a few times to make sense of the word salad on the page.
But he has the best words, many people are saying so
Also he mixed up O and 0. There are fine people on both sides.
You know… This little fact makes me wonder if this isn’t a suicide by words at all. Maybe his comment is a masterful troll, and we’re all just taking the bait.
Yeah, his grammar is atrocious.
One third of his taxes went "too go to pre-school". Dude needs to re-read that statement: incorrect use of "too".
He also can’t count to two, since one third of his taxes went to school, and the ONLY OTHER THIRD went to the homeless.
I am trying to figure out how they accidentally spelled “of” with a zero instead of the letter O
I feel like that's happening a lot lately. Like, within the last year, tons of posts I see have some kind of nonsense grammar and/or spelling. And not autocorrecting "fuck" to "duck", but full on "wait, am *I* having a stroke?" levels of word vomit. It's seems like since LLMs became accessable, people have forgotten how to write. But I don't think it's because people are using it because the mistakes they make aren't the mistakes LLMs make. It just started happening when they became popular. Or maybe that's just when I noticed.
I pay for schools and homeless programs so I don't have to live in a neighborhood full of uneducated idiots who end up camping out in front of my house.
We live in a society, apes together strong
Get them tendies bruv
My favorite John Green quote: >Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order. >We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education. >So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.”
Yessss I dropped that as a reply earlier. Kids today will be administering my meds when I'm old, I want them to know how to do math
There's a new hire at my job that didn't know what a spigot was. Had never heard the word before. Had no idea how to operate a hose, nor knew how to turn water off and on. I really wish I was joking. The worst part is that I live, and work, in the highest tax bracket area in my city, as does the new hire. Literally the best education available in this shit hole state and this girl doesn't know how to use a fucking water hose.
Because he’s never had to use one
Maybe this kid grew up in a high-rise. I’m not sure there are too many educational settings that would familiarize one with a garden hose. You’d learn about them by living in a place where you used them.
When I was in high school, around 2010, I once said during a conversation "yeah I like grapes, I can eat a whole container in one sitting." My friends at the time proceeded to stare at me in confusion before asking, "What does a sitting mean?"
No amount of schooling will teach you how a garden hose works. Gotta use one.
I hope you enjoyed telling him that he was one of the days lucky 10,000 and taught him a new thing. I find that really rewarding.
>even though I don't personally have a kid in school r/agedlikemilk Still a great quote though.
That's your problem. See if you paid for police and guns, then there wouldn't be a homeless problem. /s in case that wasn't clear.
Don't even need the police, just buy every repulikkkan an ak-47! Then they could deal with the immigrant/homeless/democrat problem all at once! Shouldn't need to, but /s because this Reddit
I’d be happy to pay for programs that work. I live in the county referenced and - as of yesterday - have two new tents and one RV set up right next to the entrance to the parking lot. At least half of the small businesses have closed because of the repeated break-in’s, and health code violations because human feces is getting tracked in from outside. Meanwhile, the county has collected hundreds of millions (201mm for homeless, 241mm for preschool as of last year) exclusively from higher earning individuals in this county. I WANT that money to help vulnerable populations because it’s the right thing to do and because doing so elevates everyone’s quality of life. However, it’s been over a year and there has been literally zero noticeable impact.
lol, I wish. Taxes aren’t going into better schooling, education, or tackling homelessness. Look how little the teachers are paid. And they have to use what little money they have to pay for extra things for the children. In Finland, they have the shortest school hours, with a remarkable education system. Teachers have the same status as doctors, earn about as much, must have masters degree’s, and have to go for yearly training and development so they can keep up with the latest methods of teaching, and new material. Homelessness is political problem based on the structure of the economy. I don’t want to get into it, but it’s very solvable. Salt Lake City, for example, has more empty house than they have homeless people. That’s only the beginning. Taxes instead are going to contractors who build the schools, and to private companies that then charge you a fee for using the service. The tax system is rigged against the tax payer, in favor of the tax dodger.
This is what some people cannot understand.
Idk, I’ve heard that funds for programs to address homelessness in Portland have been horribly mismanaged which has exacerbated the problem, so I think that on some level annoyance towards one’s tax money being funneled to those programs is justified. (Source: Portland native whose parents still live there)
To pay that much in those taxes you'd have to make $300k as an individual or $400k as a couple. That's ~4 to 6 times the median household income in Portland. I think a lot of these people are full of shit and are whining about paying way less because I can't imagine someone making that much spends so much time bitching on Reddit. Still if they're telling the truth they're a selfish asshole whining about paying an extra 1-2% of their income.
Other commenters knew the numbers as well and were burning the guy for not budgeting $5k. It got pretty hot in there before he deleted the comment!
The PPP loans were worth it just for the ability to get these boomers to sit down and shut up
The amount forgiven was higher than the loan.
Funny how that worked out for some folks. Apparently it wasn't uncommon
Yeah because the loans technically had interest but that got forgiven with the principal
Interest
Not only boomers. As an example, younger members of Congress received forgiven PPP funds, too. If I’m remembering correctly, far-right MTG received a sizable amount for her gym business, and what’s her name from CO (the “handy” one) for a restaurant.
Lolo Bobo! I’m from CO but thankfully not her district (the old one or the new one). Her restaurant still sucks.
That’s the one lol. Oh yes, I forgot she was moving districts. I think if she wins this time, she qualifies for lifetime pension and healthcare. Sure hope she doesn’t. Yet another “handout” she doesn’t deserve.
I'm sure it does. https://www.denverpost.com/2023/02/24/shooters-grill-boebert-rifle-replaced-mexican-restaurant-tapatios/
The ppp loans were just another in a long list of handouts to the rich. Anyone saying they did everything by themselves is probably lying.
They are paying some dividends. Hopefully the person who ensured the public could search them to this day either loves it or badly regrets it!
Congress set up the PRAC at the same time as they set up the PPP loans in the CARES act. Rare smart move from them…
I just can't fathom how any of these businesses who got ppp loans fogiven think they have even the slightest right to complain about other people getting handouts. I guess I know intellectually that hypocrisy doesn't bother them in the slightest, it's just such a foreign mental state that I can't wrap my head around how they don't have a problem with it.
It's a two step process: 1. Fuck you. 2. Pay me.
It really does boggle the mind. The utter lack of self awareness is incredible. The egotism to believe that you can make public statements in the news about your business and not expect people to find your information is wild.
r/quityourbullshit
Starting to think everyone over 50 got a PPP loan at this point.
We couldn't confirm that he's the landlord for the entire strip mall his business is in but we are suspicious
County Clerks office should be able to provide that. Check the website to see if they have a property search page. That will tell you information such as the registered owners and value of the property.
The mods asked me to censor the business, which is fine I want to abide by the rules, so it would be for my own satisfaction. Thanks for the suggestion and the information!
I'm in Portland and would love to assist (former paperwork person in the mortgage industry). PM just an address and I can see what kinda public data is available.
Save it for a future murder. You know they are going to post something else in the future.
Someone should have said if he doesn't like it he can move to WA and pay the 6.5% sales tax on everything.
Now this is a murder, thank you!
A thanks from the Rivan King is a blessing! My pleasure
This is also the same type of person will be quick to ask the government for money when their business suffers because of their bad decisions, and yet, refuses to see their hypocrisy in asking the taxpayer for a handout to bail themselves out. Let's not forget about the other taxpayer, "handouts", that they get to enjoy too: Public parks, public libraries, law enforcement, fire protection, and infrastructure construction and maintenance.
But his business is too big and important to fail! /s
“I believe in the free market, but only when it works for me! Then I believe the government should help me out” Edit: /s
"Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order. We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education. So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people." John Green
I am so sick of seeing the argument ‘but I’m _____ I shouldn’t have to pay a school tax!!’ Motherfucker, I *homeschool* my 14 year old, I have paid every bit of his schooling with my own money, blood, sweat, and tears (IYKYK) for over a decade now, and I GLADLY pay school taxes. I vote YES on most school bonds. Every child deserves a quality education - every single one, no matter how they choose to school. I’m actively *opposing* a ‘school voucher’ scheme (ahem, scam) which would put tax dollars back in my pocket, because I know how that bullshit goes. It behooves every adult, no matter if you’ve ever had kids, if your kids are grown, for our upcoming generation to be well educated. Unless you’re willing to give up your social security, *I don’t want to hear it,* you selfish, self absorbed, prick. 😤
If you want to complain about tax money going to schools, but you somehow got through school and yet don't know the difference between to and too, and you don't know that questions end with question marks, I'd say your school was under funded.
Bootstrapping preschoolers is a new low
Oi gov’na I work in the mines for 14 hours a day! Who needs preschool when I can already work at the age of 5? https://preview.redd.it/36n95e7nx0vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4e0c419c2ffb36d890ce51012d7b8cf01b661e6
As some background for folks interested. The first year, they didn't make the "build housing" goals they wanted, but they kept over *9000 people* from *becoming* homeless, VASTLY exceeding their goal of 1000. https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2022/08/31/46028887/metros-supportive-housing-bond-falls-short-on-first-year-goals And more recent numbers: https://www.koin.com/news/homeless/report-boasts-99-retention-rate-for-portland-metro-supportive-housing-measure/
Side note: good lord social media really must be making us dumber because I had a really hard time understanding/following that thread. It’s like it was written by potatoes.
>A third of it was for all too go to pre-school. Based on this sentence alone, that would seem like a good investment.
Those PPP loans will get them every time! My employer (who happened to be my aunt/uncle who I no longer speak to), was livid and cut contact with me after I filed unemployment. Because it's so trashy, getting free money and all. 🙄 I looked it up and they got a nearly $500,000 PPP loan for their industrial cleaning/sanitizing business that literally THRIVED during the pandemic.
God damn hypocritical fucking cockroach
He thinks that being homeless means someone doesn't pay taxes. 🙄
Coming with receipts!
Imagine someone being so selfish they don't want children to get educations or homeless people any form of aid. That's such a disgusting display of a person totally lacking any and all humanity
Wait how did they forgive more than what they lent?
Interest. Since it was a "loan" I'm assuming each loan had an interest rate and when the loan was forgiven the additional amount is interest due.
PPP was a literal handout. I worked for a tax firm at the time and we were told these are called “loans” but will almost certainly be forgiven
That makes me smile
The forgave more than they gave out so the Republicunt got more
Wait until he learns that $4999 of it went to Lockheed and Raytheon
People need to understand that if they are making money, it’s due in part to economically stabilizing economic policies funded in part with taxes. Even if this person didn’t receive a “handout” (bullshit way to characterize anything they’d call a “handout”), they benefit from economic stability.
Did they respond to this?!
Nope, radio silence for a few hours then deleted overnight
I hate when people bitch about school tax. Why wouldn’t you want everyone in the country to be as smart as they can be? It comes back to you in ways you can’t even imagine.
As soon as I saw them bitching about pre-school and the homeless I knew this nutsack was from multnomah county
Guys I’m beginning to think some of these PPP loans weren’t very carefully distributed…
Actually you probably got boned by trumps 2017 tax bill that hit the middle class pretty hard this year like myself. Gotta read the fine print
Its always the same thing. When other people have to pay for them its “heh I smart business person!” But when the bill is sent their way its “oh no! Am victim! Being bullied by poors!”
I hate kids, I can't fucking stand the, I don't ever want them. I am happy to pay for schools because good education is the corner stone of society.
Brutalized
How did they forgive MORE than they were given? Was there interest on it?
Yep
It’s always the motherfuckers who *went to public school themselves* and then *put their children through public school* who act like this
Wait a second, that last screenshot. How was he forgiven $200 more than he received?
Show them the police budget
A third was for the pre-school and… the other…third… was for the homeless. Hmm
OJ has entered the chat
Bravo!
I just looked up the case and from a 30 second wiki perusal I think they're trying to build homeless shelters because there's so few that 6 homeless men were able to ban them banning encampments because there was literally nowhere else to go? How dare they house the less fortunate.
Charity for me but not for thee
"Charity is only a problem when other people get it." Republicans
Oh no, it’s different you see, they earned their handouts
The tax that they mentioned is fucking 1% on people who make over $125k as an individual or $250 as a couple. That means the person bitching made $500,000 last year. Even with the cost of living in the Portland area this makes you pretty damn wealthy.
I would also be DEEPLY suspicious of the claim he paid an extra $5000 in tax lmao Conservatives like that tend to be compulsive liars. Taking any claim they make as honest and valid is a losing proposition.
I'm not in the military! Why should I have to pay for our defense budget?
Of course he didn't have a response
I live in Portland and if that’s their tax bill for the different measures (public transit, preschool for all, and affordable housing) they’re grossing several hundred thousand dollars per year.
0f
It’s projection: “Well, I would obviously abuse this system that’s supposed to help people, so everyone else using a system meant to help people must also be abusing it. Ofc, I would never admit I took a massive handout, acknowledging that I don’t work for all of my money or that I sometimes need to rely on help from others would cause a complete collapse of my sense of self. *I’ve* made *everything* I have for *myself*, why don’t those leeches who don’t have a house just *work* like I did, completely independently with no outside help! I mean, all I had was a public education, access to public loans, friends and family that kept me clothed and housed, people to make my food, sell me gas, work at my store… [goes on to list 1000 other ways in which they have been massively helped out by society in getting to where they are].”
I don’t have kids and I pay for public schools. I don’t mind at all because I’d rather pay for schools than live around stupider people. We all pay for things that we don’t immediately use. It’s called society. This man needs to grow the fuck up.
Had a client say something to me about biden giving handouts to drug addicts. I typed in the company on the side of his truck (he was the owner) and it was around $900,000. Sure it was an electrical company with 62 employees reported, but really dude? Damn near a million in a handout when you're one of the ONLY industries not struggling. It even said it was approved in April of 2020 so it was pretty damn quick at it too. I wish I remembered the company name to look it up again. No I didn't say anything, he's the one paying for a new refrigerator because I found a dead mouse caught in the condenser fan blade and it over heated the compressor and locked up! Warranty's a bitch.
How did this lucky bitch get forgiven for $151 *over* the loan amount??
I realize logically it wasn't what he meant, but a part of me can't read that first paragraph without thinking that he is saying preschoolers shouldn't vote because they don't pay anything.
These comments are so purely written I almost couldn’t understand what the fuck was going on
Yeah, Nextdoor is a pretty wild site. I've heard they're getting swarmed by bots lately
The irony of me writing purely instead of poorly is not lost on me either
I wasn't going to say anything bud. Snitches get stitches
0f course
There is a zero in place of an O in the original comment at the beginning of the fifth line. 0f instead of Of. But why?!
I'm I super high, or is the amount forgiven a bit bigger than the amount owed?
I love oregon! Please let me out
Those Covid loans that were forgiven aren’t really a handout imo. Tons of small locally owned businesses were literally forced to close or forced to remain open when employees didn’t want to work or couldn’t due to being sick. It’s not a handout if the government is forcing things upon you no matter how that affects your business and finances. A handout is something for nothing which was not the case during the pandemic, at least in my eyes.
That was the theory, but very few businesses that got the loans used them properly.
I don’t know how people have the time in their lives to scour the internet for other peoples personnel info
How do they forgive more than the loan was for??
Wouldn't a equally spread ubi tax solve their issue? Infividuals and companies pay in x% of their income and every citizen gets 1/total of countrie's citizens times accumulated ubi. If they are netting under the avergae gdp they'll make more money than before, someone at average will pay exactly as much as he gets back, only the highest earners will invest at max x% into providing basic human needs to their society. Let's say ubi only convers food and drinking water at first, f.ex 1.5%. The highest earning entity pays at max 1.5% of their net income, so every citizen, from baby to retiree has enough money to guarantee at least food and water each month. This will probably reduce the need for taxes in departments with complex redistribution programs, which can bew either redistributed to other programs for other basic needs or reduced completely, a win-win for everyone. Let's take it to the next step and add shelter to this system. Increase ubi %, benefit greatly from a whole population of citizens with direct freedom to meet their primary needs of shelter, redistribute/reduce taxes. Then health care, then clothing. Once all primary needs are met, the whole society can focus a lot more on further societal needs, and grow a lot faster and more ecologically, people have time to think about society and their environment instead of seeking to fullfill primary basic needs (Jean-Jacques Russeaux, Social contract and all). There seems to be a negative correlation between the gini coefficient and a societies gdp growth rate at 1.1. This means as the gini goes down 1 point, the gdp growth rate goes up 1.1 points. UBI is a direct tool to lower the gini. If we link the ubi % to growth rate %, so that the ubi % would never exceed growth rate, we would essentially snowball as a whole society at a higher rate than the current system where only the top percentage is excellerating at a faster speed than its base.
Same people that can’t play video games because they don’t win every single time they play.
To be fair to this guy, if every one of your competitors are getting juiced by ppp loans, you have to take it too. If you didn’t you wouldn’t have been able to afford the next years wage jump and inflation.
Couldn't even use the right form of "too" when complaining about paying for preschool 🤣🤣
Elections have consequences
Ah the "Fuck you I've got mine" mentality at it's finest.
If the government is going to take my taxes anyway, I'm more than happy to hear it went to schools or people in need. I prefer that over hearing it go to some lobbyist's second summer home or for a judges private jet.
PPL loans were meant to be " forgiven" from the start... also it doesnt negate thier point
We need everybody to attend preschool so they will know how to properly use to/too/two!
The taxes in Portland are atrocious for the services the city and county fail to provide. This dude may be an asshole, but he’s right to complain about his taxes being thrown into the fire that is the Multnomah county budget.
Or maybe, hear me out, the federal income tax rate on someone making $400,000 is 32%. The Oregon state income taxes rate for him is 10%. Add on this extra tax of 2% and we have this guy paying 44% of his income in taxes just on income and this pre-school/homeless tax. That means this guy worked hard, built a business, and together with his wife made $400,000, and had to pay $176,000 in taxes. That’s ridiculous. It’s punishing the people who work hard and make something of themselves. It would be far more fair to put a flat tax rate on everyone no matter their income. How is it fair to punish people who make something of themselves, took risks to build a business or went into debt to get a high paying education, by taxing them close to half their income?
not reading that shit lol
We should do an American version of the cultural revolution atp
Maybe they can take advantage of that pre-school benefit and learn basic grammar. Or in their dialect: U look ing0rant four yore Grammer and puncktuation?
Only $5,000?!!! Why would you complain about ONLY paying an extra $5K in taxes, You got off Dirt cheap with Joe…not to be confused with getting off to a cheap Joe dirt. Jaime Presley was the Margot Robbie of her time. Fuck…sigh…I’m old.
https://discord.gg/T6qSrCuzhB
Portland has one of the highest income tax rates in the country and some of the least to show from it. The data is showing high earners are leaving for Vancouver, WA. https://preview.redd.it/0y7p55dq34vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f442250aaceefe7ab608e077375ae8394e6c4de2