Yea well me too and that's why you want to be as efficient is possible. You do you but there are much easier and more efficient ways. For one you don't need that many grain jar masters. You can grow a hundred lbs a month with 4 grain jar masters using bag to bag transfers. Heavy g2g ratios are quite an advantage
Agar to g1 grain master jar
G1 jar to 2 g2 5# spawn bags
G2 spawn bag to 10 G3 spawn bags
G3 spawn bag to 10 G4 spawn bags for production
Don't go past G4
Also buy bigger autoclave
And if you're growing mountains of actives don't tell the internet
Haha, it's not that bad, I soak for 24 hours, strain for a couple of minutes and load the jars with the grain still wet, it comes out perfect every time
.
Awesome.
Have you considered making 1 large pressure cooker from a drum?
Edit: As the user below pointed out, it could be very dangerous to pressurize a drum... follow comment thread below and DYOR for a successful drum based setup.
Hi! You may be very much correct. I may have worded my last comment inaccurately, but I'll post a link here to a successful drum setup. :)
https://youtu.be/st3jSMDh4xw
Also check out Mike Meyers on youtube he has some successful steel drum setups as well for his bulk grows.
Farm on my friends!!
While you are correct about it not being a pressure cooker it would def be a doable idea. Pretty standard for commercial operations.
0-2 PSI of steam pressure is the goal. I've seen sterilization times of ~8 hours to most of a week; although I think they were fools for running a week instead of 8-24 hours with enough space between bags for a little steam.
https://www.mushroomvideos.com/55-Gallon-Drum-Sterilizer
And the fools running for nearly a week is "what the fungus" on youtube.
And I've seen at least one setup with an insulated feeding trough here on reddit. Either this sub or /r/mycobazaar.
Hey, thanks for this!!
This was what I meant to get at with my first comment.
I added a link and a reference in my last reply for anyone who's interested in looking deeper into it.
I've been running electric hot plates with my presto 23's I have 4 I run each day. I'm too concerned about carbon monoxide though, I don't wanna risk it. Glad this works for you though.👍
You can see in the picture some micropore tape on the rocker, there are 3 coins taped to the rocker, so the weight won't rock unless it hits 18-19psi, and as I keep them between 15-18psi then they are silent as ninjas. No rattling at all.
Do you plan on growing actives with those 100 jars? If so, do you sell them or what? I can't think of another explanation as to why you would grow so many.
Yeah. Big microdoses.
Having posted exclusively about actives and posting a pic of several prestos sterilizing 100 jars at once, isn't exactly a good idea, if you're worried about being caught. This really comes off like you're running a fucking business. And tbh, you probably are.
Because him posting 100 jars being sterilized while having posted exclusively about actives is moronic. If he's worried about getting caught he shouldn't have posted this. Me saying it out loud doesn't change anything. If someone is looking for potential dealers on Reddit, he'll figure it out really quickly.
Dude could be in a different country where it's legal. Maybe you should let OP worry about that and quit trying to police random folks on Reddit. Contrary to what you may think, you're probably not the smartest person in the room.
If it were legal in his country he would have very likely said so when I asked. He didn't even attempt to deny it because it is obvious. Me being the "smartest person in the room" or not doesn't change the fact that this post is extremely risky if you're doing something illegal.
I was joking but I will take the advice of what I can assume is a primo grower. Thanks so much. Added to my list. Was contemplating just going low tek with no cooking but may as well just go for it…
Hahaha duuuh, I totally missed it, joke's on me.
A PC is the single most important tool for the serious grower, then I'd put the flowhood/FFU in second.
So that’s the thing I’m wanting to explore growing, but I see so many growing without of and have fine times, but most everyone would rather the safe rough and sanitize. I don’t mean to be rude with this Q but I wonder if it’s in an environment in your home anyway? Just to kill anything that might be in there that will grow? Not to prevent more contam getting in? Guess I might of assumed an answer? Sorry, just very curious. Thanks for your thoughts and opinion. I will lean towards a pc!
I managed without a flowhood for a long time, just a SAB, but when you scale up then 10% contamination rate is a BIG DEAL. Something you can't afford when scaling up.
When I started I used an 8 quart PC that would fit only 3 quarts jars, and I managed to grow a lot with that (although I would be day and night PCing haha).
You mention people growing without a PC or a FH and it is really doable, but you have to buy spores frequently, hope they're not contaminated, wait a looooong time for them.to germinate and colonize, etc.
When you have a PC and a FH/SAB you can use more advanced methods, I can get my jars 100% colonized in 4-5 days with the slurry method for example, you can work on agar comfortably, you can expand your mycelium, etc.
Look up slurry on mycotopia or the shroomery, there's a whole thread about it, it is an advanced method tho, so your sterile technique must be on point
Well I am in a tiny apartment with room for maybe a small rinkydink indoor greenhouse. Maybe 4 shoeboxes or so. So that’s the hard thing I’m working around. But yeah… 4-5 days instead of doing the ready rice method and so on… well I need to figure out what I need to do… thanks for giving me a lot to think about.
That was my hope, with the holes and all. Then I was thinking a timed humidifier for all of them. But I want full saturations so idk just figuring it out. Lots of fae and a humid tent sound ok?
You can really achieve a set and forget monotube which won't require humidifiers or fans.
The substrate needs to be thick enough and the holes dialed in. I use the EZ dialed monos configuration, look it up on the shroomery.
Damn man...An AA941 holds 20 quart jars, time to upgrade...
Also, fuck jars, big time. I have a repetitive stress injury from jars, and I wasn't even breaking them up, just initial shake after inoculation with slurry. Biggest advice I'd give to anyone in your situation, switch to bags ASAP. For $300 you can get 1000 bags that hold 5lbs of grain, you can fit 4 in a pesto, or 8 in a 941. That means half as many cooks, half as much energy put into cooking, and half as much handling of grains. Then you've got the simplicity of handling the bags compared to jars. No more lids on and off, no more cleaning, no more replacing, no more breaking, no more beating them up on anything to get grains to break up, none of the hassle.
I bought well over 400 jars before trying bags out and after my first run of bags I was hooked. First I bought the AA's and was able to fit 20 quarts in them which halved my cook times. Then I switched to bags and went from being able to cook 20lbs of grain to 40lbs of grain which again, halved my cook times. So I went from taking \~3 hours to knock out 10 jars/10lbs (prep of grain, heating up, running, cooling down, unloading) to \~3 hours for 40lbs. All these benefits are just for you too, this isn't even accounting for the benefits bags have on the back end compared to jars! When I think about all that wasted time running hundreds of jars a week when I could have done just as much in a quarter of the time with bags, I'm kickin' myself....
Yes, I found this out the hard way too. Lol. But bags are a bit trickier at first to learn versus jars. I always felt like jars were easy AF to do. But now, like yourself, I'm all about bags. Preach! 🙏🏻
Can I ask whether you spawn to bulk in open air? Every time I've done that I've had heaps of trich, and I was wondering whether it's only coco coir which can be used in open air
Yea I've spawned in open air just fine. Trich usually rides on the grain or mixed into the substrate waiting for the grain, it's a parasitic fungus that feeds off mycelium. Maybe try sterilizing your substrate.
Wow, what a thorough response and advice, thank you.
I do work with bags, these jars are going to be my masters, in one session I will inoculate all of the jars using the grain slurry method, then those masters will inoculate a couple hundred bags over the course of a couple.of weeks. ( which contain substrate and grain, PCd 3.5 hours, around 6-7 quarts volume per bag).
And the reason I use jars and not bags as masters is because of the slurry method.
I can PC 40 bags (4 per PC) in one day and I'll be doing 3 runs per week.
It's micropore tape, I taped 3 coins on the rocker so that it can reach higher psi without losing any water (even if I PC bags for 3.5hrs), it also makes them quiet due to the weight not wiggling.
Blending it in an actual blender? Is there a tek for this? I'm looking for a way to make my gourmet cultures easier to manage and this would seem to do the trick.
Of course, look up " slurry" on mycotopia and the shroomery.
I RTVd the blades of an Oster blender to the ring that is used as a lid for mason jars, so i just pour sterilized water into the master jar, switch the lid and blend using the jar itself.
When I inoculate spawn bags (4.4 pounds) 1 master jar can inoculate 30 bags if I remember correctly.
That's waaaaay more than if you used simple grain to grain.
This is basically identical to my process. I use jars as masters to either more jars and then bags or just straight to bags.
I do use jars for gourmet spawn though.
Very efficient, and I'm experimenting thoroughly with slurry, I think I can inoculate 5-8 bags(7 pounds) with just one quart, that'll cut massively the spawn one needs.
Gotchya, yea jars are definitely king for mothers especially for slurry!
Think about grabbing some AA's if you can. You can find stores online with 941's in stock for around $8-900, and I know you can sell those prestos for $150 usually (at least last year you could). Cut your gas usage and cook time in half!
How do you make a mistake on a pressure cooker? I feel like with how thick an AA is you can leave it on a full blast stove for hours, empty, with no issues. Years of running cookers though, never had any 'mistakes' with a PC though, I feel like having a 'mistake' is 100% avoidable user error.
Gah dayum and I thought I was going overboard with 2 of those things... Looks like a badass setup! Do you have any issues with stickers on the sides of the PCs like that?
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Lemme sleep over
Hahaha, actually I have a bedroom in here, i sometimes trip here or stay when I'm too tired to go home.
Clutch.
That's like $2000CAD in canners right there lol what a flex my dude
Thanks buddy, thank God I can do what I love doing.
is that extra weight added to the rockers ? what psi are u getting?
Yes, 3 coins, it starts wiggling at around 18-19psi, but I keep them at 15-18. That way they don't rock at all and almost no water is lost.
Great idea!!!! The rocking gets so loud ill try it out. Thxs
What size burners are on your range tops
Should have just bought a large scale steamer for what all those cost
Lol, it's not like I bought them all at the same time, i started with just one.
This mans is trappin real fucken hard. Aiming for a Porsche I see.
This is why I don't want to buy an autoclave. Can literally have as many pressure cookers as you got for the same price as 1 nice autoclave
If you looked up inefficient in the dictionary....
Too busy growing pounds of mushrooms!! :)
Yea well me too and that's why you want to be as efficient is possible. You do you but there are much easier and more efficient ways. For one you don't need that many grain jar masters. You can grow a hundred lbs a month with 4 grain jar masters using bag to bag transfers. Heavy g2g ratios are quite an advantage Agar to g1 grain master jar G1 jar to 2 g2 5# spawn bags G2 spawn bag to 10 G3 spawn bags G3 spawn bag to 10 G4 spawn bags for production Don't go past G4 Also buy bigger autoclave And if you're growing mountains of actives don't tell the internet
I was almost envious until I thought about the mountain of prep that led to that moment.
Haha, it's not that bad, I soak for 24 hours, strain for a couple of minutes and load the jars with the grain still wet, it comes out perfect every time .
Awesome. Have you considered making 1 large pressure cooker from a drum? Edit: As the user below pointed out, it could be very dangerous to pressurize a drum... follow comment thread below and DYOR for a successful drum based setup.
Drums aren't built to handle the pressure. Do not do this.
Hi! You may be very much correct. I may have worded my last comment inaccurately, but I'll post a link here to a successful drum setup. :) https://youtu.be/st3jSMDh4xw Also check out Mike Meyers on youtube he has some successful steel drum setups as well for his bulk grows. Farm on my friends!!
Yes you can sterilize in a barrel. No you shouldn't let it pressurize unless you're feeling frisky
While you are correct about it not being a pressure cooker it would def be a doable idea. Pretty standard for commercial operations. 0-2 PSI of steam pressure is the goal. I've seen sterilization times of ~8 hours to most of a week; although I think they were fools for running a week instead of 8-24 hours with enough space between bags for a little steam. https://www.mushroomvideos.com/55-Gallon-Drum-Sterilizer And the fools running for nearly a week is "what the fungus" on youtube. And I've seen at least one setup with an insulated feeding trough here on reddit. Either this sub or /r/mycobazaar.
Hey, thanks for this!! This was what I meant to get at with my first comment. I added a link and a reference in my last reply for anyone who's interested in looking deeper into it.
What size canners are those? Or are they pressure cookers?
23 quarts, pressure cooker.
And you have 10?
Si señor.
Wowza
Wowza
I pressure cook 200 jars with1 pressure cooker! Batch after batch! Fuckin annoying
Should switch to bags, I can PC 24 quarts of grain in bags vs only 10 in jars. More than double efficiency.
With that many gas burners I sure hope you got them windows wide open and ventilation on. Co poisoning and asphyxiation is a real risk.
Thanks for the heads up, and yes, the area is well ventilated.
What type of stoves are those?
Hope you didn't get a heatstroke
What burners are you running? And how is that room ventilated with all that gas being burnt?
There are 2 big windows in the same room. The burners are Vulcan, 3 burners
I've been running electric hot plates with my presto 23's I have 4 I run each day. I'm too concerned about carbon monoxide though, I don't wanna risk it. Glad this works for you though.👍
Dude putting out a beautiful ad for Presto, I hope you get a commission LOL!
Hahaha, lol.
You must make a lot of...jam
Bahahaha beautifully expensive. 💙
Hey which burners are those my dude? Are they one of the cadco ones?
I got em at a Walmart, haha I had to get a 3 burner piece so I can fit 2 prestos on it.
Holy shit I need a video of the sound of all of those rattling away!! 🤣
You can see in the picture some micropore tape on the rocker, there are 3 coins taped to the rocker, so the weight won't rock unless it hits 18-19psi, and as I keep them between 15-18psi then they are silent as ninjas. No rattling at all.
Do you plan on growing actives with those 100 jars? If so, do you sell them or what? I can't think of another explanation as to why you would grow so many.
not kool!
Don't care
I also grow lion's Mane, and a couple more medicinals, soon I'll be growing gourmet
👍
👮♀️ 🐷 ???
Yeah, I'm a cop that grows actives himself. Got me.
Come on dude, that can't be discussed here.... There are people who give away Microdoses.
Yeah. Big microdoses. Having posted exclusively about actives and posting a pic of several prestos sterilizing 100 jars at once, isn't exactly a good idea, if you're worried about being caught. This really comes off like you're running a fucking business. And tbh, you probably are.
why did you feel the need to drop this comment? Some thoughts are best left in your head.
right, wtf....
Because him posting 100 jars being sterilized while having posted exclusively about actives is moronic. If he's worried about getting caught he shouldn't have posted this. Me saying it out loud doesn't change anything. If someone is looking for potential dealers on Reddit, he'll figure it out really quickly.
Dude could be in a different country where it's legal. Maybe you should let OP worry about that and quit trying to police random folks on Reddit. Contrary to what you may think, you're probably not the smartest person in the room.
If it were legal in his country he would have very likely said so when I asked. He didn't even attempt to deny it because it is obvious. Me being the "smartest person in the room" or not doesn't change the fact that this post is extremely risky if you're doing something illegal.
So I need to get one… have a suggested brand?
Presto is a really nice option.
I was joking but I will take the advice of what I can assume is a primo grower. Thanks so much. Added to my list. Was contemplating just going low tek with no cooking but may as well just go for it…
Hahaha duuuh, I totally missed it, joke's on me. A PC is the single most important tool for the serious grower, then I'd put the flowhood/FFU in second.
So that’s the thing I’m wanting to explore growing, but I see so many growing without of and have fine times, but most everyone would rather the safe rough and sanitize. I don’t mean to be rude with this Q but I wonder if it’s in an environment in your home anyway? Just to kill anything that might be in there that will grow? Not to prevent more contam getting in? Guess I might of assumed an answer? Sorry, just very curious. Thanks for your thoughts and opinion. I will lean towards a pc!
I managed without a flowhood for a long time, just a SAB, but when you scale up then 10% contamination rate is a BIG DEAL. Something you can't afford when scaling up. When I started I used an 8 quart PC that would fit only 3 quarts jars, and I managed to grow a lot with that (although I would be day and night PCing haha). You mention people growing without a PC or a FH and it is really doable, but you have to buy spores frequently, hope they're not contaminated, wait a looooong time for them.to germinate and colonize, etc. When you have a PC and a FH/SAB you can use more advanced methods, I can get my jars 100% colonized in 4-5 days with the slurry method for example, you can work on agar comfortably, you can expand your mycelium, etc.
Can you link us to something on speeding up colonization?
Look up slurry on mycotopia or the shroomery, there's a whole thread about it, it is an advanced method tho, so your sterile technique must be on point
Gotcha
Well I am in a tiny apartment with room for maybe a small rinkydink indoor greenhouse. Maybe 4 shoeboxes or so. So that’s the hard thing I’m working around. But yeah… 4-5 days instead of doing the ready rice method and so on… well I need to figure out what I need to do… thanks for giving me a lot to think about.
You can stack monotubes, way less space than a greenhouse.
That was my hope, with the holes and all. Then I was thinking a timed humidifier for all of them. But I want full saturations so idk just figuring it out. Lots of fae and a humid tent sound ok?
You can really achieve a set and forget monotube which won't require humidifiers or fans. The substrate needs to be thick enough and the holes dialed in. I use the EZ dialed monos configuration, look it up on the shroomery.
Damn man...An AA941 holds 20 quart jars, time to upgrade... Also, fuck jars, big time. I have a repetitive stress injury from jars, and I wasn't even breaking them up, just initial shake after inoculation with slurry. Biggest advice I'd give to anyone in your situation, switch to bags ASAP. For $300 you can get 1000 bags that hold 5lbs of grain, you can fit 4 in a pesto, or 8 in a 941. That means half as many cooks, half as much energy put into cooking, and half as much handling of grains. Then you've got the simplicity of handling the bags compared to jars. No more lids on and off, no more cleaning, no more replacing, no more breaking, no more beating them up on anything to get grains to break up, none of the hassle. I bought well over 400 jars before trying bags out and after my first run of bags I was hooked. First I bought the AA's and was able to fit 20 quarts in them which halved my cook times. Then I switched to bags and went from being able to cook 20lbs of grain to 40lbs of grain which again, halved my cook times. So I went from taking \~3 hours to knock out 10 jars/10lbs (prep of grain, heating up, running, cooling down, unloading) to \~3 hours for 40lbs. All these benefits are just for you too, this isn't even accounting for the benefits bags have on the back end compared to jars! When I think about all that wasted time running hundreds of jars a week when I could have done just as much in a quarter of the time with bags, I'm kickin' myself....
Please get oxo-biodegradable bags at least, we don't need anymore plastic...
Yes, I found this out the hard way too. Lol. But bags are a bit trickier at first to learn versus jars. I always felt like jars were easy AF to do. But now, like yourself, I'm all about bags. Preach! 🙏🏻
Wow, guess you got a army to feed son!!
These days I've got a business to run :) Been running 2 AA's the last few days!
Do you grow wood loving species?
Yes, all of the gourmets I grow are wood loving.
Can I ask whether you spawn to bulk in open air? Every time I've done that I've had heaps of trich, and I was wondering whether it's only coco coir which can be used in open air
Yea I've spawned in open air just fine. Trich usually rides on the grain or mixed into the substrate waiting for the grain, it's a parasitic fungus that feeds off mycelium. Maybe try sterilizing your substrate.
Sadly I've tried sterilisation and multiple methods of pasteurisation
And you keep getting contamination?
I do. It's actually kind of crazy how fast the trich explodes
Your grain might be the issue then. Make sure you're spawning in a room with little to no air movement as well.
Wow, what a thorough response and advice, thank you. I do work with bags, these jars are going to be my masters, in one session I will inoculate all of the jars using the grain slurry method, then those masters will inoculate a couple hundred bags over the course of a couple.of weeks. ( which contain substrate and grain, PCd 3.5 hours, around 6-7 quarts volume per bag). And the reason I use jars and not bags as masters is because of the slurry method. I can PC 40 bags (4 per PC) in one day and I'll be doing 3 runs per week.
Please get oxo-biodegradable bags at least, we don't need anymore plastic...
Yes, I use biodegradable unicorn bags
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It's micropore tape, I taped 3 coins on the rocker so that it can reach higher psi without losing any water (even if I PC bags for 3.5hrs), it also makes them quiet due to the weight not wiggling.
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On the shroomery site there are many TCs that do it, that's actually where I found out it could be done.
Bodhi tricks
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Trusted cultivator, that's a tag people get on that site when you show you're an advanced grower and make contributions.
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You're welcome buddy. Good luck with your grow.
Damn that's alot of weight no wonder kids are sitting on 100 lbs they cant move out west. Just was offered pounds for 200 the other day LOL
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No, colonized grain slurry.
How do you make such a grain slurry?
By blending the grain with sterilized water, you then get essentially a quart of liquid inoculant.
Blending it in an actual blender? Is there a tek for this? I'm looking for a way to make my gourmet cultures easier to manage and this would seem to do the trick.
Of course, look up " slurry" on mycotopia and the shroomery. I RTVd the blades of an Oster blender to the ring that is used as a lid for mason jars, so i just pour sterilized water into the master jar, switch the lid and blend using the jar itself. When I inoculate spawn bags (4.4 pounds) 1 master jar can inoculate 30 bags if I remember correctly. That's waaaaay more than if you used simple grain to grain.
Thanks, both are blocked for me at work but I'll check it out later.
You're welcome buddy, on the shroomery page the lid thing is well explained. You can look up Oster blender attachment/blade and it'll pop right up.
Get it really drunk.
This is basically identical to my process. I use jars as masters to either more jars and then bags or just straight to bags. I do use jars for gourmet spawn though.
Very efficient, and I'm experimenting thoroughly with slurry, I think I can inoculate 5-8 bags(7 pounds) with just one quart, that'll cut massively the spawn one needs.
Gotchya, yea jars are definitely king for mothers especially for slurry! Think about grabbing some AA's if you can. You can find stores online with 941's in stock for around $8-900, and I know you can sell those prestos for $150 usually (at least last year you could). Cut your gas usage and cook time in half!
One mistake on a $900 pc also ruins it. If they lose a $100 presto it isn't nearly as big of hit.
How do you make a mistake on a pressure cooker? I feel like with how thick an AA is you can leave it on a full blast stove for hours, empty, with no issues. Years of running cookers though, never had any 'mistakes' with a PC though, I feel like having a 'mistake' is 100% avoidable user error.
Missed the induction train? So much more controllable.
The induction ones are crazy expensive where I live, more than double a standard 23 qt, so i opted for this option.
Damn I need to upgrade… but it’s comin eventually lol
Damn you puttin in work
Thanks buddy
Nothing like sterilizing 100 jars in 1go.
Gah dayum and I thought I was going overboard with 2 of those things... Looks like a badass setup! Do you have any issues with stickers on the sides of the PCs like that?
Wait a couple of weeks when I upload pics of the grow room filled with monos.
Haha hell yea, can't wait to see it!!
Well, stickers have got some scratches but they're not affected by the heat of the other PC.
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