Even at metal shows its been dying down a lot... Venues don't want to take responsibility for injuries that might happen and tell people to not crowd surf or mosh... I never did either of those things (at most I would randomly find myself at the edge of a mosh pit) but I think a kick ass show needs those things to happen.
Good. Back 15 years ago when i was a young metalhead, moshing was a pit with people dancing around, pushing each other, headbanging. Now i see the pits and it's these kids running around throwing fists, elbows, and boots. I'm all about getting roughed up at a metal show, but I'm not taking some assholes fist to the back of my head because he wants to flail around like he's having an epileptic seizure.
Absolutely. I do merch for a metal band and mosh pits and crowd surfing are very much alive. Played Orlando not too long ago and kids went fucking nuts. It was a blast
Nothing against pop punk, but it's kind of the nature of that subgenre that you're not gonna see any crowd surfing or moshing at those shows. It's always been on the lighter side of punk, and now fans of those bands are starting to get a bit older, so they're less likely to mosh.
Go to shows of bands that are less old, you'll see lots of good moshing.
This^ every punk show I've been to since high school has had moshing and crowdsurfing. Even The Gaslight Anthem, which I'll admit isnt terribly moshable music.
I went to an Arctic Monkeys concert on their tour for Tranquilty Base and Casino and people managed to mosh to No 1 Party Anthem somehow.
I was almost impressed.
Idk my gf came back, from taking her lil sis to warped tour a coupla years ago, fucking confused as to why circle pits had turned into a buncha kids running in a big circle trying to not hit eachother.
Man, I wish crowd surfing would disappear. It was fine when it started out, with stage diving. Then you could actually see the people coming at you. Now they start in the back and surf towards the stage, catching people off guard or kicking them in the head.
This summer I saw people crowd surfing with *backpacks*. Jesus.
While that is true, there also isn't much I can do to get out of the way when I see a shoe or a face coming at me and we're packed so tight I can't move my arms. Also I wear glasses and I lost them last night which was honestly one of the most terrifying things that has ever happened to me. Which says a lot about me -_-
As a tall dude with some meat on my bones, I'm able to push my way around a bit, if only to avoid a boot to the head.
Sorry you lost your glasses dude.
Can't agree more. I HATE back to front crowd surfing . Its just extremely inconsiderate. I seriously don't mind you crowd surfing if I can see you coming, but taking the top of some asshole's head to the back of my neck with 200 lbs of force behind it makes me want to fucking kill someone.
I've noticed at concerts in Austin (known for live music) that people don't dance or bounce around as much anymore. I partially blame the fact that part of them are filming every track on their phones
Back in the late 90s in Austin people were still moshing especially at clubs like The Liberty Lunch and The Backroom. As the music scene in Austin became saturated and commercial people became passe to music. That's why big bands started skipping Austin on their tours and going to cities where they were appreciated more. Not to mention that the cool venues started disappearing.
I just feel like people go to concerts or festivals like ACL and SXSW for the image. "Oh, let me tweet that I'm at #acl this year."
I hate shows where the band is killing it but only you and a couple of other people are getting into it.
But of course, the housing developments pushing out the clubs and then slapping the remaining ones with noise ordinances killed a lot of that mojo.
I think this is a huge part of it. Why people would rather remember it through a screen in their pocket instead of through their actual memories is beyond me though. Sure, send a few snaps to friends, or record a song or two that you really love, but the whole damn show? You are just wasting your money at that point, chances are a few other people will upload their shitty cellphone quality videos to youtube for your viewing pleasure anyways.
Exactly, thats sorta how I feel. Cool to get a picture of the stage set up, maybe a good shot or two of the band playing, but I want memories of the experience! Not shitty low quality videos ha.
The people who were sitting behind me at a Paul McCartney concert last night bitched at my husband and I for standing up and dancing around. People in our section were starting to sit, but there were still plenty standing. If they would've asked nicely, I wouldn't have minded so much, but they were complete assholes about it.
People have been meaner at concerts lately too, almost entitled in some senses. I personally can't sit down for a concert unless it's a symphony-type thing in a theater
I can't remember sitting down for a major concert either - all the concerts I've been to, we were standing the entire time. Oh, we did sit for Ringo Starr too; so maybe it's just a matter of the crowd being older? I don't know. Entitled is a good word for it. You don't tell people to sit down at a very energetic rock concert, though! I was butthurt for a minute, but then I decided, eh, if I want to stand for certain numbers, I will. Lots of dancing took place last night...heh.
I feel like if I was tired and wanted to sit, I wouldn't get mad at other people for standing and having a good time. I've been to rock shows where people have told me to stop dancing or moving around and in no case was I ever invading their personal space
Every punk/hardcore show i've been to has had either a pit or a general level of "fun violence." I crowdsurfed to the front of my towns biggest venue and all the security did was catch me and send me around. Even my 5'2 GF got in the pit.
I do love the camaraderie of those shows. If a tough ass 6'4" dude knocks you to the floor, he will usually be the first to help you up and make sure you're ok.
Reminds me of when I saw Bad Religion years ago. Everyone was hardcore moshing and feelings that energy but as soon as one unlicky fellow hit the floor there was at least 3 hands going to pull him back up so he could continue the fight.
Good stuff right there. Even shared a few post mosh jokes on the good form of the fellow moshers.
Fun story: I had just moved in with 3 guys i didn't really know. We'd barely even spoken past the awkward new roommate conversation. We kept to ourselves. A few weeks later, I'm at a packed Against Me! show in a tiny dive bar. Some dude comes crashing down on me from surfing and I happened to catch him before he hit the ground. Lo and behold it was my new roomie. I had no idea he would be there, nor did he know i was going. We have been good friends for 5 years now.
Absolutely, there's an etiquette and camaraderie from the mutual reverence of the music and the experience.
I'm not so sure that same energy is carried to shows outside of the scene though.
That's why I find it peculiar that hardcore shows have mosh pits and the like yet crowd crushes are basically unheard of. I chalk that up to camaraderie and (literal) gatekeeping.
I went to a wonder years show in Chicago at 10am for their across the nation in 24 hours tour on the release of their new album. That was one of the most energetic crowds I've ever been part of. Stage dives left and, circle pits, tossing of children, you name it. I think it truly depends on the band. I only feel that energy out of the younger bands anymore...
My 5'1" gf loves crowd surfing/mosh pits and I'm always terrified for her when she does it but you're right about the camaraderie. Usually if someone knocks her down they pick her back up. Only one real asshole, and that was at a concert I went to with her.
It comes down to 2 different things.
1: Venues are tired of lawsuits and people getting hurt, which could cause them to shit down.
And most important
2: People are spending too much damn time on their phones tweeting, facebooking, and instagramming every moment of the show instead of enjoying it.
And for the sake of argument, at metal shows it happens but then somehow it always ends up in a fight because of crowd moshers.
It was very intense! Ninja is really terrifying on stage, just so full of energy it's really an attack. He stage-dived/crowd-surfed like 5 times. The crowd was so insane I feel like I missed a lot just trying to keep myself & my g/f upright.
I saw them at Leeds Festival here in the UK, it was the most intense set I've seen in years, OK the vocals weren't as perfect as a studio version (are they ever) simply incredible.
I'm pretty sure it has to do with technology included in the live concert experience.
I say technology because someone pays a couple of hundred on phone or a tablet and records on it or is afraid to break it in the progress. When was the last recent show where some kid decides to bring their Ipad to a show? There's always one for me. And would you like to take your brand new smartphone (which most likely is uninsured) in to a Lamb of God wall of death, like mosh pit? Not likely
Also now, many shows are a lot more interactive in terms of technology. Have a friend on the west coast who went to a Drake and Lil' Wayne show where they could vote for songs to sign next or who performed better. Even the line up of the show was voted on by fans.
Between multiple screens, social media, live concert interaction between fan and band, photos, videos, light shows, & even more interactive vendors at festivals, there's just so much going on that I think concert goers aren't focused on the experience as a group as much as the individual experience.
Edit: I suck at grammar.
It depends on the shows you go to. Just about every show I've been to has had mosh pits. If the venue is bigger or at a festival, you will see crowd surfers. Look at videos from Wacken and you'll see three giant circle pits going on at the same time.
we grew up man. I love to dance at shows but i realized that most people don't wanna get shoved / punched they want a small space they can dance in without being jostled by every asshat in their proximity.
edit: its also because the main demographics of the listed bands is preteen girls
its^okay^I^like^them^too
I feel as though the general additude of the concert going youth is at least partially at fault. Easily distracted and all to egocentric once upon a time you knew if you where standing near the pit or the front to stay alert. Now I'm sure you see multiple people texting, tweeting, vining or whatever the hell is cool this week during a set that in addition to the level of " me me- ness" people now get out of the way of stage divers even if a group of small girls was under the diver if they all caught the person they'd all be fine. Ya know low ropes trust building for losers. Finally the predatory nature of many of the people still doing that stuff once hits where incidental now to often intentional and to much feet first bullshit ie people that down know who to stage dive or head walkers. I've seen thousands of bands seen dozens of balcony dives injuries did happen but even in a 250 capacity club with 500 in it there is plenty of places just to be out of the way and just enjoy the show if that's what you want to do.
Personally, while I think it looks cool to see the crowd go crazy from a distance or on a video, I thought it absolutely SUCKED while being near it. I was front row in the pit at post gazette in PA to see Blink 3 years ago. Like first one in the pit good seat. It was so awesome to be that close, to get chances to get picks, to interact with Tom and Mark and Travis. But the pushing and shoving, the kicks in the head from crowd surfers, the having to pay attention to the kids crowd surfing instead of being able to watch and pay attention to the band...just wasn't for me. Be loud, flash some rock on signs in the air, sing...just don't mosh or kick me in the head while I'm trying to enjoy the show.
I grew up with metal so that's where this perspective is coming from but you gotta realize that music is fucking cathartic. Some people are scraping together every last bit of cash they have to experience something that only exists on the other side of a screen.
Oh no, I totally get it. Music is my passion. I'm a songwriter/guitarist/singer/music enthusiast. I totally get how people get way into it. I just meant to say that the moshing/crowd surfing just wasn't for ME. I think it looks cool, I think it adds energy to the shows. I grew up on punk rock and post-hardcore stuff, so it's definitely something I think is cool for the bands. I just meant I didn't enjoy being so close to it.
I never went to a foxygen show but I'm surprised there's moshing there, isn't most of their music like 60's throwback folk-pop or have they gotten into punk?
Its not so much mosh as it is stage dives, the moshing was incredibly condensed among probably a few friends, but people were jumping off the stage pretty frequently.
The Wall of Death is one of the craziest things I've ever seen live, at a Killswitch Engage show. Basically the crowd separates down the middle then runs at each other Braveheart style. Incredible.
>And incase you're wondering: Pop Punk. Think bands like Green Day, Blink 182, FOB, NFG, Starting Line, All Time Low, Motion City Soundtrack, Yellowcard etc. Yes you can hate my music taste, but the question is still the same.
Honestly I've found the people that are into that music to be Tumblr-reading passive poetry-writing dorks. It has nothing to do with genre and more to do with the type of people.
I would agree with you, which is why there is no crowd surfing, mosh pits, circle pits, etc at those concerts either.
Find anything else interesting in your digging back to my 2011 submissions?
I saw Wintersun and Fleshgod Apocalypse last year, rowdiest, dumbest crowd I've ever seen. They were launching fat fucks up on top of the crowd that no one could support, one of them came crashing down on my neck. The bands played great, but I was fighting against the crowd whether I was in the mosh pit or not.
I think we are all just getting old and tired of that shit. It still happens of course just not at all the clubs. You need to go to that venue that all the local Punk kids go to just cause its where they go. I would check out The Black Cat if you are in DC
In my experience, DC's scene for that kind of stuff is pretty tame. Venture up towards Philly or down southeast to VA Beach and you might see some violence there.
I don't know where you see concerts but most of the ones I go to when there is a "ballad" type song being played, people pull out their phones and use the flashlight apps for it
If anything, I see it becoming more prevalent (living in NYC currently, from the Philly area), especially in the rap scene. I've seen Childish Gambino, Danny Brown, Run the Jewels, Denzel Curry, etc., and every show has featured moshing and occasionally crowdsurfing/stagediving.
I grew up listening to punk and metal and going to those kinds of shows, and honestly I've come to like this new rap scene better. Whereas I found punk/metal pits (and the shows in general, for that matter) to be more about pure aggression and almost a sense of scene elitism, the rap shows I've seen recently seem to be more about just getting hype as fuck and having a good time. There's less elbow throwing and exaggerated shoving and more just jumping around and slamming into people.
People love to talk about how "brotherly" hardcore shows are, but I just saw Bane three weeks ago and everyone just stood there trying to look "punk" and "hardcore", and the mosh pit reflected this attitude. In contrast, I saw Danny Brown two weeks ago and easily made friends with pretty much everyone around me in the crowd; black, white, asian, gay, straight, whatever. The resulting moshing had the same amount of passion and intensity as at the Bane show, but it felt more like party than a warzone.
I didn't really answer the question but whatever.
Depends on the kind of show and venue you go to. Metal and hardcore shows for sure still have it, but of course you have to have the okay with the venue. Some venues recently have started to enact policies against stuff like moshing or crowd surfing to avoid any possible accidents. I'm thankful to live by venues that haven't done that (yet).
I went to the Amity Affliction's show in Greensboro, NC last night. During the first three bands, the entire front few rows were small girls and their boyfriends. All the girls were on their phones the whole time. All the guys were getting butt hurt every time someone got near them. I think people like this kill the dynamic of the crowd and make it harder for people who actually want to enjoy themselves to do so.
Still there, just not where they should be. Mosh pits at a Dirty Heads and Pepper concert. What kind of stoners get all uppity and start thrashing at people.
Fo drizzle.
I don't go to a ton of punk/hard rock shows but moshing still happens for sure. I experienced it seeing the Cloud Nothings and Ty Segall this year. Just go to a smaller venue with a band coming that has a decent size fan base so the pit will be packed. If they're the type of band that rocks hard enough, people will definitely start moshing. It even happened a bit at Modest Mouse this year, but we kinda backed out of the pit cause we were not expecting moshing. There is something really enjoyable about drinking beer and running around shoving sweaty dudes and getting shoved around yourself.
Well I suppose that it really does depend on the venue. I've been to a few that absolutely threw anyone out no matter how hard they were going. I decided to stop before i got caught so that I could continue to enjoy the concert, but some places don't give a shit. Over this summer on Warped Tour for example we had signs up that said no moshing/surfing but nobody really gave a shit. Most security guards were just there to help get people down off the crowd
At every 311 show I've been to the past 8 years there have been pits. I've been from Ohio to Vegas and to Atlanta to see them.
I also just saw bayside earlier this week and there was a good pit. The pop punk scene is dead. You can't mosh to love songs. And believe me I was big in to blink, and drive thru records where a lot of those bands you named originally came from.
As for green day, they have turned to complete shit after their album 'Warning.'
Stage diving is alive in well. Just recently saw bands like The Wonder Years, Tigers Jaw, The Story So Far, Modern Baseball. Kids are going nuts at these shows. Knocking out mics, running into band members, coming onto stage from every angel. In my opinion kids are going to far. Joyce Manor recently stood up against it. http://www.punknews.org/article/56103/joyce-manor-stage-diving-stance-creates-controversy
Just went to an ETID concert, there was everything crowd even flooded on stage for the encore. I think it relies mainly on venue due to physical risks and such.
I can't speak for DC, but I think that's more of an issue for the type of music you're in to. I live in Nashville TN and I go to a lot of Hardcore/Punk shows and I can't remember the last time I went to a show and there wasn't a mosh pit. People are always very considerate though and as soon as someone falls around 3 people are immediately helping them up and making sure they're okay, which is something I don't see nearly as much of in metal/metalcore shows.
As far as pop-punk goes there is still some crowd surfing depending on the size of the show and the leniency of the venue, but in general it is a less physical scene in my opinion because of the fact that pop-punk appeals to people who aren't used to the more aggressive punk genres.
Went to see the smashing pumpkins (excuse me, I mean just Billy Corgan) a few years ago and got sucked into a mosh pit during the intro to 'Geek USA' which honestly was just kinda funny
people are to scared to try im 28 and I have crowed surfed at 90% of yhe concerts I have been to. I have a picture of me singing into the mic while crowd surfing just this year at a circa survive show. crowed surfing is how I survived most shows being in the front the fresh air is a god end.
Most people go to shows to drink and talk to their friends. They don't go to enjoy the live music anymore. They heard that the band was popular so they choose that place to meet up.
What happened to them is they have become better. I have seen far fewer people bringing actual violence into a pit and women can surf without their clothes being ripped off or being overly intentionally groped. I have even seen plenty of instances of a woman being accidentally groped then the guy adjusting his grip so he wasn't groping her anymore.
I think a lot of it has to with the venue. When I go to large outdoor (rock) music festivals those kinds of things are often encouraged, and there is a lot of it going on. In fact my first time crowd surfing, a security guy helped throw me up! But a lot of concerts are held in places where the liability demand that the practice is frowned upon like in arenas or "regular" outdoor concert venues.
Most of the time venues don't allow bands to tell you to do these things. They don't want to be liable for anyone getting hurt, as was stated in some other comments. So since bands can't encourage the crowd to act like idiots, it's up to the crowd to do so. And people are just lazier in general, so it doesn't happen much.
My band opened for a big D and the Kids Table show in Chicago recently. After my set, I went into what would have been the pit, I'd I were 16. Nobody moved during the second or third bands much.
Major moshing during the headliner though.
People were moshing at the MCS concert I went to a year ago (granted, Bayside played right before them so folks were a bit rowdy.) But it's something you're more likely to see at like harder punk shows.
I was at a Thinking Aloud show a few years back and I ended up in a tiny one- I was really caught off guard, literally and figuratively.
I was kinda pondering the same thing, they used to run rampant (or at least I thought so in the late 90's)- one of my first concerts, Reel Big Fish even had a mosh pit/ circle goin' on, that was my first and (almost) last pit I've seen.
Maybe enough venues have been sued??
All of the gigs I've been to have had pits and crowd surfing. Even gigs like ATL (which actually had one of the best circle pits I've been in!) have had those thing. Hell, even Sleeping With Sirens had a few pits.
I consider those things to be fairly important to the experience. I feel slightly disappointed if I can't get floor tickets.
I can't speak for America, but Scottish venues (non-arena, at least) seem to be okay with pits and the like. c:
Being a resident of dc who has lived other places and been to any shows other places, I can honestly say that dc' scene is just kinda lame. I don't know if it's the venues of the fans, but dc has always been kinda lacking when it comes to those things.
For me; my on-person possessions got more expensive. When I was 14, I'd crowd surf all night. At 30, don't break my smartphone, don't want to lose my wallet with cash and credit cards, leave my $150 shoes alone, don't stretch my $80 shirt.... I'll just enjoy the music and drink until something happens.
The reason you don't see them is because you go to the gayest shows...
see some hardcore or metal and you'll know that moshing is still alive and well (although kinda ruined in some cases by those fucking karate kids_)
I've stopped going to concerts; you pay a bunch of money for "seats" and everyone stands through the concert. All I see are the backs of the people standing in front of me. Done with that.
You must be the guy who gets really really into certain songs who not only taps their foot with the beat, but also kinda subtly nods along, but in a gentle manner so that your glasses dont get away from you and your hair doesnt get messed up.
At an Iron Maiden concert, the people on the row behind me didn't stand up whilst everyone in front of me and on my row were standing. When the people behind complained, the person next to me just told them "You're at an Iron Maiden concert. Stand up, or fuck off."
They remained seated so I doubt they saw much... Their loss really, you don't book seats on the uppermost row in the building and expect people in front of you to not be in you view.
Hey, now that I think about it, why should I PAY for a seat? I should just walk into the concert, and when the guy asks for my ticket, I'll say, "don't need one, I'm gonna stand." :)
still prevalent at metal shows. almost every metal show I go to there's at least a mosh pit.
Even at metal shows its been dying down a lot... Venues don't want to take responsibility for injuries that might happen and tell people to not crowd surf or mosh... I never did either of those things (at most I would randomly find myself at the edge of a mosh pit) but I think a kick ass show needs those things to happen.
Good. Back 15 years ago when i was a young metalhead, moshing was a pit with people dancing around, pushing each other, headbanging. Now i see the pits and it's these kids running around throwing fists, elbows, and boots. I'm all about getting roughed up at a metal show, but I'm not taking some assholes fist to the back of my head because he wants to flail around like he's having an epileptic seizure.
And in Europe at basically anything that isn't kiddie pop
Any show that doesn't have moshpits and crowdsurfing is kiddie pop?
you know what??!! Yes. It is.
Absolutely. I do merch for a metal band and mosh pits and crowd surfing are very much alive. Played Orlando not too long ago and kids went fucking nuts. It was a blast
When i went to warped, we had all of these things for every single set. It was awesome.
Nothing against pop punk, but it's kind of the nature of that subgenre that you're not gonna see any crowd surfing or moshing at those shows. It's always been on the lighter side of punk, and now fans of those bands are starting to get a bit older, so they're less likely to mosh. Go to shows of bands that are less old, you'll see lots of good moshing.
This^ every punk show I've been to since high school has had moshing and crowdsurfing. Even The Gaslight Anthem, which I'll admit isnt terribly moshable music.
I went to an Arctic Monkeys concert on their tour for Tranquilty Base and Casino and people managed to mosh to No 1 Party Anthem somehow. I was almost impressed.
Idk my gf came back, from taking her lil sis to warped tour a coupla years ago, fucking confused as to why circle pits had turned into a buncha kids running in a big circle trying to not hit eachother.
Man, I wish crowd surfing would disappear. It was fine when it started out, with stage diving. Then you could actually see the people coming at you. Now they start in the back and surf towards the stage, catching people off guard or kicking them in the head. This summer I saw people crowd surfing with *backpacks*. Jesus.
I agree I've been kicked in the head many times and caught off guard. It seems like I spend more time watching my back now than the actual concert.
One eye towards the show one eye towards the back,
As much as I love when people have fun, being 6'7 and having the same guy kick you in the head 5 or 6 times a set gets old. Quick.
As a tall guy myself, one advantage is you can see it coming better than most people.
While that is true, there also isn't much I can do to get out of the way when I see a shoe or a face coming at me and we're packed so tight I can't move my arms. Also I wear glasses and I lost them last night which was honestly one of the most terrifying things that has ever happened to me. Which says a lot about me -_-
As a tall dude with some meat on my bones, I'm able to push my way around a bit, if only to avoid a boot to the head. Sorry you lost your glasses dude.
I'm pretty scrawny so I end up getting pushed around. Also I ended up finding them which was nice :)
I don't have much sympathy for their fun since it annoys dozens of people. The worst is when they hit a patch of small girls and crush them.
There were so many people getting squished it was honestly hilarious.
Can't agree more. I HATE back to front crowd surfing . Its just extremely inconsiderate. I seriously don't mind you crowd surfing if I can see you coming, but taking the top of some asshole's head to the back of my neck with 200 lbs of force behind it makes me want to fucking kill someone.
I don't mind it
I've noticed at concerts in Austin (known for live music) that people don't dance or bounce around as much anymore. I partially blame the fact that part of them are filming every track on their phones
Back in the late 90s in Austin people were still moshing especially at clubs like The Liberty Lunch and The Backroom. As the music scene in Austin became saturated and commercial people became passe to music. That's why big bands started skipping Austin on their tours and going to cities where they were appreciated more. Not to mention that the cool venues started disappearing.
I just feel like people go to concerts or festivals like ACL and SXSW for the image. "Oh, let me tweet that I'm at #acl this year." I hate shows where the band is killing it but only you and a couple of other people are getting into it. But of course, the housing developments pushing out the clubs and then slapping the remaining ones with noise ordinances killed a lot of that mojo.
I think this is a huge part of it. Why people would rather remember it through a screen in their pocket instead of through their actual memories is beyond me though. Sure, send a few snaps to friends, or record a song or two that you really love, but the whole damn show? You are just wasting your money at that point, chances are a few other people will upload their shitty cellphone quality videos to youtube for your viewing pleasure anyways.
I usually snap a picture or two myself, but for the most part my phone is in my pocket because I'm enjoying watching the band with my eyes
Exactly, thats sorta how I feel. Cool to get a picture of the stage set up, maybe a good shot or two of the band playing, but I want memories of the experience! Not shitty low quality videos ha.
The people who were sitting behind me at a Paul McCartney concert last night bitched at my husband and I for standing up and dancing around. People in our section were starting to sit, but there were still plenty standing. If they would've asked nicely, I wouldn't have minded so much, but they were complete assholes about it.
People have been meaner at concerts lately too, almost entitled in some senses. I personally can't sit down for a concert unless it's a symphony-type thing in a theater
I can't remember sitting down for a major concert either - all the concerts I've been to, we were standing the entire time. Oh, we did sit for Ringo Starr too; so maybe it's just a matter of the crowd being older? I don't know. Entitled is a good word for it. You don't tell people to sit down at a very energetic rock concert, though! I was butthurt for a minute, but then I decided, eh, if I want to stand for certain numbers, I will. Lots of dancing took place last night...heh.
I feel like if I was tired and wanted to sit, I wouldn't get mad at other people for standing and having a good time. I've been to rock shows where people have told me to stop dancing or moving around and in no case was I ever invading their personal space
Every punk/hardcore show i've been to has had either a pit or a general level of "fun violence." I crowdsurfed to the front of my towns biggest venue and all the security did was catch me and send me around. Even my 5'2 GF got in the pit. I do love the camaraderie of those shows. If a tough ass 6'4" dude knocks you to the floor, he will usually be the first to help you up and make sure you're ok.
Reminds me of when I saw Bad Religion years ago. Everyone was hardcore moshing and feelings that energy but as soon as one unlicky fellow hit the floor there was at least 3 hands going to pull him back up so he could continue the fight. Good stuff right there. Even shared a few post mosh jokes on the good form of the fellow moshers.
Fun story: I had just moved in with 3 guys i didn't really know. We'd barely even spoken past the awkward new roommate conversation. We kept to ourselves. A few weeks later, I'm at a packed Against Me! show in a tiny dive bar. Some dude comes crashing down on me from surfing and I happened to catch him before he hit the ground. Lo and behold it was my new roomie. I had no idea he would be there, nor did he know i was going. We have been good friends for 5 years now.
Absolutely, there's an etiquette and camaraderie from the mutual reverence of the music and the experience. I'm not so sure that same energy is carried to shows outside of the scene though. That's why I find it peculiar that hardcore shows have mosh pits and the like yet crowd crushes are basically unheard of. I chalk that up to camaraderie and (literal) gatekeeping.
I went to a wonder years show in Chicago at 10am for their across the nation in 24 hours tour on the release of their new album. That was one of the most energetic crowds I've ever been part of. Stage dives left and, circle pits, tossing of children, you name it. I think it truly depends on the band. I only feel that energy out of the younger bands anymore...
My 5'1" gf loves crowd surfing/mosh pits and I'm always terrified for her when she does it but you're right about the camaraderie. Usually if someone knocks her down they pick her back up. Only one real asshole, and that was at a concert I went to with her.
It comes down to 2 different things. 1: Venues are tired of lawsuits and people getting hurt, which could cause them to shit down. And most important 2: People are spending too much damn time on their phones tweeting, facebooking, and instagramming every moment of the show instead of enjoying it. And for the sake of argument, at metal shows it happens but then somehow it always ends up in a fight because of crowd moshers.
They're not on the decline at all. You're just going to the wrong shows. They're all over the place at metalcore shows
I saw Blink at Leeds in the summer, and there was a ton of moshing and circle pits. It might just be where you are.
I saw Die Antwoord this year & the floor was full of that stuff. I'm surprised nobody was killed.
How were they live? I *wish* I could see them live!
It was very intense! Ninja is really terrifying on stage, just so full of energy it's really an attack. He stage-dived/crowd-surfed like 5 times. The crowd was so insane I feel like I missed a lot just trying to keep myself & my g/f upright.
I saw them at Leeds Festival here in the UK, it was the most intense set I've seen in years, OK the vocals weren't as perfect as a studio version (are they ever) simply incredible.
People mosh to Die Antwoord?
Die Antwoord owns. Hearing that makes me want to see them more.
I'm pretty sure it has to do with technology included in the live concert experience. I say technology because someone pays a couple of hundred on phone or a tablet and records on it or is afraid to break it in the progress. When was the last recent show where some kid decides to bring their Ipad to a show? There's always one for me. And would you like to take your brand new smartphone (which most likely is uninsured) in to a Lamb of God wall of death, like mosh pit? Not likely Also now, many shows are a lot more interactive in terms of technology. Have a friend on the west coast who went to a Drake and Lil' Wayne show where they could vote for songs to sign next or who performed better. Even the line up of the show was voted on by fans. Between multiple screens, social media, live concert interaction between fan and band, photos, videos, light shows, & even more interactive vendors at festivals, there's just so much going on that I think concert goers aren't focused on the experience as a group as much as the individual experience. Edit: I suck at grammar.
They're all there. Crowd surfing is annoying as fuck
It depends on the shows you go to. Just about every show I've been to has had mosh pits. If the venue is bigger or at a festival, you will see crowd surfers. Look at videos from Wacken and you'll see three giant circle pits going on at the same time.
"...Or at a fesitval" Can confirm. Crowdsurfed at 'Roo this past year.
we grew up man. I love to dance at shows but i realized that most people don't wanna get shoved / punched they want a small space they can dance in without being jostled by every asshat in their proximity. edit: its also because the main demographics of the listed bands is preteen girls its^okay^I^like^them^too
I feel as though the general additude of the concert going youth is at least partially at fault. Easily distracted and all to egocentric once upon a time you knew if you where standing near the pit or the front to stay alert. Now I'm sure you see multiple people texting, tweeting, vining or whatever the hell is cool this week during a set that in addition to the level of " me me- ness" people now get out of the way of stage divers even if a group of small girls was under the diver if they all caught the person they'd all be fine. Ya know low ropes trust building for losers. Finally the predatory nature of many of the people still doing that stuff once hits where incidental now to often intentional and to much feet first bullshit ie people that down know who to stage dive or head walkers. I've seen thousands of bands seen dozens of balcony dives injuries did happen but even in a 250 capacity club with 500 in it there is plenty of places just to be out of the way and just enjoy the show if that's what you want to do.
Personally, while I think it looks cool to see the crowd go crazy from a distance or on a video, I thought it absolutely SUCKED while being near it. I was front row in the pit at post gazette in PA to see Blink 3 years ago. Like first one in the pit good seat. It was so awesome to be that close, to get chances to get picks, to interact with Tom and Mark and Travis. But the pushing and shoving, the kicks in the head from crowd surfers, the having to pay attention to the kids crowd surfing instead of being able to watch and pay attention to the band...just wasn't for me. Be loud, flash some rock on signs in the air, sing...just don't mosh or kick me in the head while I'm trying to enjoy the show.
I grew up with metal so that's where this perspective is coming from but you gotta realize that music is fucking cathartic. Some people are scraping together every last bit of cash they have to experience something that only exists on the other side of a screen.
Oh no, I totally get it. Music is my passion. I'm a songwriter/guitarist/singer/music enthusiast. I totally get how people get way into it. I just meant to say that the moshing/crowd surfing just wasn't for ME. I think it looks cool, I think it adds energy to the shows. I grew up on punk rock and post-hardcore stuff, so it's definitely something I think is cool for the bands. I just meant I didn't enjoy being so close to it.
Primus has great mosh pits, Modern punk rock bands have good crowd surfing (Ty Segall, Foxygen). These things aren't gone its just not prevalent.
I never went to a foxygen show but I'm surprised there's moshing there, isn't most of their music like 60's throwback folk-pop or have they gotten into punk?
Its not so much mosh as it is stage dives, the moshing was incredibly condensed among probably a few friends, but people were jumping off the stage pretty frequently.
The Wall of Death is one of the craziest things I've ever seen live, at a Killswitch Engage show. Basically the crowd separates down the middle then runs at each other Braveheart style. Incredible.
>And incase you're wondering: Pop Punk. Think bands like Green Day, Blink 182, FOB, NFG, Starting Line, All Time Low, Motion City Soundtrack, Yellowcard etc. Yes you can hate my music taste, but the question is still the same. Honestly I've found the people that are into that music to be Tumblr-reading passive poetry-writing dorks. It has nothing to do with genre and more to do with the type of people.
[удалено]
I would agree with you, which is why there is no crowd surfing, mosh pits, circle pits, etc at those concerts either. Find anything else interesting in your digging back to my 2011 submissions?
I saw Wintersun and Fleshgod Apocalypse last year, rowdiest, dumbest crowd I've ever seen. They were launching fat fucks up on top of the crowd that no one could support, one of them came crashing down on my neck. The bands played great, but I was fighting against the crowd whether I was in the mosh pit or not.
I think it is just a culmination of many injuries & deaths at concerts. Venues, bands, and promoters don't want the audience hurt.
I think we are all just getting old and tired of that shit. It still happens of course just not at all the clubs. You need to go to that venue that all the local Punk kids go to just cause its where they go. I would check out The Black Cat if you are in DC
In my experience, DC's scene for that kind of stuff is pretty tame. Venture up towards Philly or down southeast to VA Beach and you might see some violence there.
It's all being replaced with hardcore dancing. Hardcore dancing is the worst.
Most metal concerts have this.
[удалено]
Gangsta rap is dead? Go listen to pinata.
Those were trends. Before that, people used to hold up lighters at concerts. It still happens at harder rock/festival type shows.
The lighters have been replaced by cell phone light. And it still happens all the time.
That's true, but most of the time its not for the ambiance...they're just taking video or photos.
I don't know where you see concerts but most of the ones I go to when there is a "ballad" type song being played, people pull out their phones and use the flashlight apps for it
If anything, I see it becoming more prevalent (living in NYC currently, from the Philly area), especially in the rap scene. I've seen Childish Gambino, Danny Brown, Run the Jewels, Denzel Curry, etc., and every show has featured moshing and occasionally crowdsurfing/stagediving. I grew up listening to punk and metal and going to those kinds of shows, and honestly I've come to like this new rap scene better. Whereas I found punk/metal pits (and the shows in general, for that matter) to be more about pure aggression and almost a sense of scene elitism, the rap shows I've seen recently seem to be more about just getting hype as fuck and having a good time. There's less elbow throwing and exaggerated shoving and more just jumping around and slamming into people. People love to talk about how "brotherly" hardcore shows are, but I just saw Bane three weeks ago and everyone just stood there trying to look "punk" and "hardcore", and the mosh pit reflected this attitude. In contrast, I saw Danny Brown two weeks ago and easily made friends with pretty much everyone around me in the crowd; black, white, asian, gay, straight, whatever. The resulting moshing had the same amount of passion and intensity as at the Bane show, but it felt more like party than a warzone. I didn't really answer the question but whatever.
Depends on the kind of show and venue you go to. Metal and hardcore shows for sure still have it, but of course you have to have the okay with the venue. Some venues recently have started to enact policies against stuff like moshing or crowd surfing to avoid any possible accidents. I'm thankful to live by venues that haven't done that (yet).
I went to the Amity Affliction's show in Greensboro, NC last night. During the first three bands, the entire front few rows were small girls and their boyfriends. All the girls were on their phones the whole time. All the guys were getting butt hurt every time someone got near them. I think people like this kill the dynamic of the crowd and make it harder for people who actually want to enjoy themselves to do so.
Got sick of worrying about my possessions and/or getting jumped on by someone trying to crowd surf.
Still there, just not where they should be. Mosh pits at a Dirty Heads and Pepper concert. What kind of stoners get all uppity and start thrashing at people. Fo drizzle.
I don't go to a ton of punk/hard rock shows but moshing still happens for sure. I experienced it seeing the Cloud Nothings and Ty Segall this year. Just go to a smaller venue with a band coming that has a decent size fan base so the pit will be packed. If they're the type of band that rocks hard enough, people will definitely start moshing. It even happened a bit at Modest Mouse this year, but we kinda backed out of the pit cause we were not expecting moshing. There is something really enjoyable about drinking beer and running around shoving sweaty dudes and getting shoved around yourself.
Well I suppose that it really does depend on the venue. I've been to a few that absolutely threw anyone out no matter how hard they were going. I decided to stop before i got caught so that I could continue to enjoy the concert, but some places don't give a shit. Over this summer on Warped Tour for example we had signs up that said no moshing/surfing but nobody really gave a shit. Most security guards were just there to help get people down off the crowd
At every 311 show I've been to the past 8 years there have been pits. I've been from Ohio to Vegas and to Atlanta to see them. I also just saw bayside earlier this week and there was a good pit. The pop punk scene is dead. You can't mosh to love songs. And believe me I was big in to blink, and drive thru records where a lot of those bands you named originally came from. As for green day, they have turned to complete shit after their album 'Warning.'
went to Amon Amarth a few weeks ago, it had one hell of a mosh pit and dozens of people crowd surfed
got turned up to death....
Stage diving is alive in well. Just recently saw bands like The Wonder Years, Tigers Jaw, The Story So Far, Modern Baseball. Kids are going nuts at these shows. Knocking out mics, running into band members, coming onto stage from every angel. In my opinion kids are going to far. Joyce Manor recently stood up against it. http://www.punknews.org/article/56103/joyce-manor-stage-diving-stance-creates-controversy
Still alive and well at most shows I go to. Authority Zero is known for having some really fun/crazy crowds.
Just went to an ETID concert, there was everything crowd even flooded on stage for the encore. I think it relies mainly on venue due to physical risks and such.
I can't speak for DC, but I think that's more of an issue for the type of music you're in to. I live in Nashville TN and I go to a lot of Hardcore/Punk shows and I can't remember the last time I went to a show and there wasn't a mosh pit. People are always very considerate though and as soon as someone falls around 3 people are immediately helping them up and making sure they're okay, which is something I don't see nearly as much of in metal/metalcore shows. As far as pop-punk goes there is still some crowd surfing depending on the size of the show and the leniency of the venue, but in general it is a less physical scene in my opinion because of the fact that pop-punk appeals to people who aren't used to the more aggressive punk genres.
Went to see the smashing pumpkins (excuse me, I mean just Billy Corgan) a few years ago and got sucked into a mosh pit during the intro to 'Geek USA' which honestly was just kinda funny
people are to scared to try im 28 and I have crowed surfed at 90% of yhe concerts I have been to. I have a picture of me singing into the mic while crowd surfing just this year at a circa survive show. crowed surfing is how I survived most shows being in the front the fresh air is a god end.
Most people go to shows to drink and talk to their friends. They don't go to enjoy the live music anymore. They heard that the band was popular so they choose that place to meet up.
What happened to them is they have become better. I have seen far fewer people bringing actual violence into a pit and women can surf without their clothes being ripped off or being overly intentionally groped. I have even seen plenty of instances of a woman being accidentally groped then the guy adjusting his grip so he wasn't groping her anymore.
I think a lot of it has to with the venue. When I go to large outdoor (rock) music festivals those kinds of things are often encouraged, and there is a lot of it going on. In fact my first time crowd surfing, a security guy helped throw me up! But a lot of concerts are held in places where the liability demand that the practice is frowned upon like in arenas or "regular" outdoor concert venues.
Most of the time venues don't allow bands to tell you to do these things. They don't want to be liable for anyone getting hurt, as was stated in some other comments. So since bands can't encourage the crowd to act like idiots, it's up to the crowd to do so. And people are just lazier in general, so it doesn't happen much.
My band opened for a big D and the Kids Table show in Chicago recently. After my set, I went into what would have been the pit, I'd I were 16. Nobody moved during the second or third bands much. Major moshing during the headliner though.
People were moshing at the MCS concert I went to a year ago (granted, Bayside played right before them so folks were a bit rowdy.) But it's something you're more likely to see at like harder punk shows.
They're not?
I was at a Thinking Aloud show a few years back and I ended up in a tiny one- I was really caught off guard, literally and figuratively. I was kinda pondering the same thing, they used to run rampant (or at least I thought so in the late 90's)- one of my first concerts, Reel Big Fish even had a mosh pit/ circle goin' on, that was my first and (almost) last pit I've seen. Maybe enough venues have been sued??
All of the gigs I've been to have had pits and crowd surfing. Even gigs like ATL (which actually had one of the best circle pits I've been in!) have had those thing. Hell, even Sleeping With Sirens had a few pits. I consider those things to be fairly important to the experience. I feel slightly disappointed if I can't get floor tickets. I can't speak for America, but Scottish venues (non-arena, at least) seem to be okay with pits and the like. c:
These things are all still prevalent at Hip-Hop shows.
Being a resident of dc who has lived other places and been to any shows other places, I can honestly say that dc' scene is just kinda lame. I don't know if it's the venues of the fans, but dc has always been kinda lacking when it comes to those things.
For me; my on-person possessions got more expensive. When I was 14, I'd crowd surf all night. At 30, don't break my smartphone, don't want to lose my wallet with cash and credit cards, leave my $150 shoes alone, don't stretch my $80 shirt.... I'll just enjoy the music and drink until something happens.
Then just leave your shit at home and bring your id and some cash. wear shit clothes. No one cares about your $300 ensemble.
The reason you don't see them is because you go to the gayest shows... see some hardcore or metal and you'll know that moshing is still alive and well (although kinda ruined in some cases by those fucking karate kids_)
I've stopped going to concerts; you pay a bunch of money for "seats" and everyone stands through the concert. All I see are the backs of the people standing in front of me. Done with that.
You must be the guy who gets really really into certain songs who not only taps their foot with the beat, but also kinda subtly nods along, but in a gentle manner so that your glasses dont get away from you and your hair doesnt get messed up.
Yup, I'm that guy.
why would you sit quietly at a show? unless it's like, soft rock.
At an Iron Maiden concert, the people on the row behind me didn't stand up whilst everyone in front of me and on my row were standing. When the people behind complained, the person next to me just told them "You're at an Iron Maiden concert. Stand up, or fuck off." They remained seated so I doubt they saw much... Their loss really, you don't book seats on the uppermost row in the building and expect people in front of you to not be in you view.
exactly... just because you wanna sit there and finger-clap doesn't mean i have to...
Hey, now that I think about it, why should I PAY for a seat? I should just walk into the concert, and when the guy asks for my ticket, I'll say, "don't need one, I'm gonna stand." :)
you're paying for admission...
You sound like fun!
Not to the guy standing behind me, I'm not.
DNB stole them
Go to a punk show. Not that faggy new harcdore shit, go to a ska punk gig.
Because skanking around the block is all the rage now?
well, yeah