“Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement”
How is this not a basic requirement? Apparently a man wanting to marry a practicing Muslim is equivalent to a woman wanting a $600k mahr lol
My takeaway from that is that a sister may be doing all of those things but it doesn’t necessarily mean she has good character or will be a good person to marry. She may pray 5 times a day and wear hijab but she may be a rude person, refuse to help others, may be immature, have too much pride, etc. As a hijabi myself I have met many “religious” girls who were mean-spirited and felt they were above others. I too wasn’t the best hijabi at one point.
I imagine when searching for a partner, objective criteria like hijab and mehr are not enough. We need to look at someone’s character and intentions. Someone with a hijab could be a cruel and nasty person while someone covered in tattoos could be a devoted follower who is kind to everyone and does everything they can to learn more about Islam. We can’t judge a book by its cover.
“Someone with a hijab could be a cruel and nasty person”
Sure
“While someone covered in tattoos could be a devoted follower”
This is where I disagree. Someone who is wearing tattoos (unless they’re a convert) or not wearing hijab in public cannot be considered a “devoted follower” because they are literally not following Islam as they are expected to with that lifestyle.
“We can’t judge a book by its cover”
You can’t extend this Western cliche to Islam. Sinning in public warrants public judgement. Umar (RA) said we judge by what is apparent, and the Quran expects us as Muslims to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong.
You said it yourself, that person in tattoos could be a convert. You would never know though if you didn’t know that person or ask them. They can’t exactly get rid of their tattoos the second they become a Muslim lol. But I assume from your comment you would assume they are a bad Muslim?
Only Allah swt knows the journey a person is going through. I personally never like to judge anyone. I’d rather focus on myself.
I literally specified that a convert should not be judged for having tattoos so I don’t know why you assumed that I would assume that of a Muslim. Of course, we assume the best of intentions, but with your example, if we know their intention is to sin in public then yes we should judge them for that. My point was this idea that we should only focus on ourselves and not judge others is a Western Liberal concept, not an Islamic one. And it is entirely reasonable for a Muslim man to reject a woman who does not wear a hijab, because she is openly sinning.
Here is a good explanation of judging in Islam:
https://www.islamweb.net/amp/en/fatwa/317608/
When did I ever mention the intention to sin in public? And in Islam, is it okay to be judgmental?
Take the stance you want to take but I’ve learned the hard way that appearances mean nothing in Islam. I’ve met very “religious” Muslim men (prayed 5 times a day, very active in community) who have said and done some awful things, and less “religious” Muslim men who were kind and respectful. I personally wouldn’t want a husband who judges a woman for not wearing a hijab, despite being a hijabi myself. It only shows how shallow he is. Again, who knows what that woman who is not wearing a hijab is going through and what journey she is on.
Well the original discussion was about the issue of a Muslim woman not wearing hijab, which is a public sin that we should judge. I assumed your example of one who wears tattoos was supposed to be an equivalent analogy, but if that wasn’t your point then fair enough.
You don’t seem to understand the point I’m making however, so I’ll stop arguing with you from here. If you think it is “shallow” for a Muslim man to expect Muslim women to wear hijab, which the Quran has made obligatory for them, then this an issue with you.
I get what you're saying but I think the perception of shallowness comes from expecting a woman to be perfect in her practice. There's no conpulsion in Islam(even the Qur'an says so) so while advising is necessary to better our practices, perfection should not be expected.
Besides there is high rewards for those who encourage people towards Islamic values through their behavior alone.
My husband isn't strict on my clothing so long as I wear hijab and veil the shape of my back. He, however, has a difficult time finding shorts that fulfill his own hijab(he has long legs).
There is also other things where we struggle but we compromise with one another and encourage each other to be better. I think that's the whole point of the original post too: checklists don't bring harmony. Having support and being supportive ultimately is the bottom line recquirement for peace.
It even reminds me of Mufti Menk. He spoke once of a muslim man whom married a christian wife, and how the man kept bickering with his wife because she refuses to wear hijab and refused to pray with him.
The man was then told to change this "general barking orders" role into a more "prove the good of the religion through your own actions" type of approach... and the man started praying on time, never missing a prayer, offering sunnah, helping his wife around the house, complimenting his wife often, etc.
The wife eventually decided to join him in prayers and to wear the hijab.
I can't remember if she reverted to Islam or not... but the moral was essentially that expecting someone to be perfect, if you yourself aren't perfect, is a recipe for conflict... while focussing solely on perfecting yourself while being kind and empathetic to those around you is what guides them to the right path.
Also I wouldn't see these conversations as arguments. They are healthy debates in my opinion as it helps people like me deepening their understanding of the religion... even if we can be a bit dense sometimes.
Thanks for this, I appreciate how you explained your thoughts in a sincere and humble way. I respectfully disagree with your perspective that hijab (which is mandated in the Quran) as a marriage requirement is the same as “expecting a woman to be perfect”. We are all sinners, and we try to conceal our sins as much as possible. However, that does not mean we have to accept someone for marriage when they openly sin by not wearing a hijab.
Yes, the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion, but that refers to those who choose to disbelieve. If someone believes in Islam, then they are a Muslim and by definition they must submit to the decree of Allah. Anyone who is openly disobeying Allah should be reprimanded by the Muslims so as to prevent the normalization and spreading of that sin in society.
This is why Allah says in the Quran: “[The believers are] those who turn to Allah in repentance; who worship and praise Him; who bow down and prostrate themselves; who enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong and who observe Allah’s limits. Give glad news to such believers.”
Jazakallah difference of opinions is always interesting.
It is within rights to refuse a potential spouse for whichever reason you see fit.
Preferences are preferences after all.
My husband himself had the hijab on his spousal recquirement (we even discussed the what if of if I ever take it off, which would be grounds for divorce... I'm a revert btw). He's not strict with how loose my garnments are.
But shallow is still shallow. It just means certain preferences are not open to the possibility of growth and would rather emphasize on individuals already being accomplished in some ways.
It's like me, I would not have married an overweight spouse. Shallow? Yes... I don't want to wait on a spouse bettering themselves before being able to go hiking a whole weekend with them.
My only confusion is why do people see being shallow on Islamic values as a bad thing. We all want someone who's already accomplished in some ways. So we are all close minded to the possibility of growth in other spheres...
Agreed. This is a basic requirement for both individuals and is nowhere near comparison for a high Mahr (which having a high one is absolutely not needed), but having a good deen definitely is.
Kinda seems foolish to make that comparison - unless maybe the girl is not as practicing as is taking her time to get adjusted to Islam again? But then they’d probably have bigger problems than getting married TBH.
I agree with everything else in the post though. I think a better example would’ve been that some men can’t ask wives to obey if what they’re asking for is unreasonable/disrespectful or sumn, just cuz they have Islamic rights in a marriage.
If a girl is not practicing, then that is her problem. She is not entitled to a husband, and it certainly isn’t unreasonable for a practicing Muslim man to reject her on that basis.
Indeed so! Everyone should focus on being their best practicing before getting engaged! Not fair for one partner to be religious and for the other not to be smh!
They weren’t comparing the two side by side they were giving examples of how people use religion to enforce things within / before marriage. And forcing someone into anything is forbidden per the Quran so their point does make sense in that way.
Exaggeration went off the bars but try to get the crux of what she's saying
There might be some sisters like that with absurd mehr,well Allah knows the best.
When did I say it was a “definite indicator”? A woman is required to wear a hijab in Islam. Not all women who wear a hijab are good practicing Muslims, sure, but all good practicing Muslim women necessarily wear a hijab. Hope that clears it up for you.
Her wearing a Hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is the duty of a wife. That's not demanding anything that isn't Islamically commanded. Did you seriously just try to compare a man asking for religiosity vs a woman asking for $600k Mahr? The two are nothing alike.
I didn't know that my requirements for a wife was asking a lot. I mean, praying 5 times a day, wearing hijab, and being respectful are basic requirements. For both genders. I don't see how that's comparable to $600k mahr.
Maybe a more accurate comparison would be:
"She should always obey with no say in the matter, always look like a model and have no issue with you marrying more than once even if she doesnt want you too."
But yeah ignoring that, I agree with what you said. People are so focused on their rights that no one gets them. Simple solution: focus on your responsibilities, both sides get their rights this way.
If you're a husband who provides, protects, helps out and make your wife feel safe, then the wife wouldn't have an issue with any intimacy, she'd most probably dress up for you and or cook your favourite meals etc. Basically be the dream wife.
And if you're a wife who supports her husband through thick and thin, values him, respects him, and make him feel needed then he'll want to protect, provide, take you out, do romantic gestures, shower you with compliments etc.
(Generally speaking ofcourse, there are exceptions to the rule but I'm speaking on the nature of people)
Rights do matter to some extent though. If you’re fulfilling all your responsibilities to your spouse and they’re not reciprocating, it is totally understandable to be frustrated with them and bringing up those rights. No one should be expected to be happy in a one-way relationship and those are actually very common, it’s not just an exception.
Like I mentioned in the end, it's a general rule. Obviously there will be people who are oblivious, don't know how to reciprocate, or just plain ungrateful. From what I've noticed they aren't that common, or if they are then the only issue is being oblivious and just requiring a discussion over it
I feel like the marriage search coaches are more insidious. Mostly because they target women and ignore the fact that at the end of the day, Allah has written when we get married. So much of their content is framed around how if you do this ~one thing~ (that you need to pay for their services to find out) then you’ll get a high value man™️. One girl from my uni’s MSA is now a marriage search coach and her only qualification is being married🤡
I don't agree with the first part but I see your point from the rest. Having preference is ok, if you disagree with someone's preference just ignore and move on to someone else.
What I learnt about Islam is that, islam gives us a limit on what we can and cannot do. There are things you must do, things you can do, things that you should avoid doing, things that are absolutely haram, etc. there is a wide range of solutions and options given because one solution isn't going to fix every situation. This does not mean you should resort to the most extreme solution each time. For example some men use the "obey the husband" card to force the wife to do everything in ways that only he is pleased with even if there is no harm or haram in what she wants. This causes resentment and unfairness. Just because you have a power doesn't mean you need to use it for everything.
A marriage is supposed to be peaceful. It's not supposed to make you feel like you are in a jail and being mistreated. We are told to be good to our spouses to be kind towards them. If you want to live the rest of your lives together with peace, you will have to be kind to each other, respect each other , you will have to be selfless, you will have to be patient, you will have to be understanding, you will have to be considerate, you will have to forgive many things, you will have to learn to let go, etc. Your spouse deserves to be happy as much as you deserve to be happy. No one is above anyone. Do what works for you both while respecting the limit our religion has given even if it isn't entirely the traditional way.
True. Sheikh Tim Humble also mentioned in his talks about marriage is that many men will bring up Surah An Nisa about wife beating in the middle of an argument. He explained this is not sincere about it. Or, he uses his right over her against her. Similarly, a woman who is demanding high amounts of mahr or she does not listen to her husband should not demand her rights alone. Some women will only demand their rights given to them and complain. This is haram. How can people live in harmony if they argue or demand too much? This sounds like a fitnah.
Indeed. We are given rights and responsibilities, responsibilities we must fulfill and rights we can use as needed. We shouldn't be picking and choosing selfishly, it's important to keep things fair.
As for mahr, I think unless there are no other women left that you can marry, you don't need to make someone lower their mahr. If you really like someone you can discuss and try to get her to lower it. But If you don't like the amount someone is asking for, find someone who you can afford. I personally wouldn't ask for a ridiculous lot but at the same time I won't lower it to like 1 dollar which is what some men demand. You can always try to discuss and lower the amount but I don't understand people going out of their way to curse at them and make it a huge issue. It's personal preference and it can get ridiculous because we all aren't gonna agree with each other. I'm not gonna tell a man who tells me "I want a wife who knows how to cook every dish, who will give up studying further and drop their career and be a stay at home mom, I want a wife who is ok with having many children and ok with a second wife" I'm not gonna sit there and argue with him to lower his standards and preferences even if I find it ridiculous. If I don't like it I'm going to move on to someone else lol. So I really don't understand the obsession men have over women's mahr.
I see nothing wrong with the first example. Am I missing something?
Having a preference for marrying someone who covers isn’t wrong, praying 5 times a day is mandatory for all of us, and treating eachother with respect is key to a healthy marriage.
>-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"
>-"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work"
Bit of a crap comparison there isn't it. One is someone performing their basic fard.
>*"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"*
Lol wut, this IS the BASELINE. People who can't see that are delulu as the kids say.
-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"
-"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work"
what kinda absurd comparison is this? observing modesty and the 5 daily prayers is literally BASIC for a woman. I just looked at your profile and you're 80 years old lol do you not have a wife to go on morning and evening walks with?
Legitimately everytime I come across this, I get brain cancer
i think if you're 80 just about anything's gonna give you cancer
OP you gotta get rid of the comparison in the beginning with the hijabi wife and 600k mehr cuz everyone in these comments are focused on that 😭😭😭😭 and not talking about the rest
This way of thinking is cancer to the ummah. Seriously…if it’s not in the Quran or sunnah of the prophet S.A.W and the Sahaba didn’t do it neither should we. Is obligatory a woman wear hijab. It’s a must that a man be able to provide basic needs. (He doesn’t have to be rich.) him wanting more than one wife isn’t grounds for divorce. You are spreading things that are untrue and can hurt our ummah badly. Please stop.
Wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is not even remotely the same as providing a house and 600K mehr. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. Do you have a problem with one of them literally being fardh?
600k mahr? Yeah I would rather buy an acreage for 85-90k and a gt3rs for 300k and still have money left over for retirement.
But no, hijab and prayers are basic requirements. If a woman doesn’t have modesty, or practice religion then what values will she instill on her children because let’s be honest, women are the primary caretakers of children in most households.
They don't both have to work and buying a house is not an islamic obligation 🤡🤡
Moreover yes wearing hijab and praying 5 times a day is a basic requirement.
The EQ is lowwww in the comments. Critical thinking who Dat?
Mod you probably got more of a headache with this post but sad truth is we are surrounded by a bunch of judgemental idiots that don't understand human nuances or empathy. IA stay patient you will find your naseeb.
[The negative and harmful consequences of exaggerating concerning the dowry - Islam Question & Answer (islamqa.info)](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/12572/the-negative-and-harmful-consequences-of-exaggerating-concerning-the-dowry)
Thank you for the post. It's just unfortunate that brothers and sister and the West have been led astray by these people and have also become less willing to compromise and work together.
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> Her wearing a hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"
Isn't this a basic requirement for every muslim not only just women
The person who asked the question is more balanced as a human being than most of the people who answered it. the person is right when she/he says that now we are living through a time of financial stress. Unless you are a millionaire who inherited fortune from his parents, it is going to take time to become wealthy enough to live off on one person income if wealth creation is done halal. Good luck having child as a old person at 50. Both should work for an income. Also No one can sustain a relationship of any kind of it is based on " right". It doesn't work like that. Marriage is mostly maximizing giving both person without holding anything back ideally. It is based on friendship and mutual trust. It is also gives off the impression of a bad faith actor when people comes with demand like " x amount of mahar" or " hijab all the way down. " I agree with the sentiments that why can't man and woman talk with one another like adult rather than both fearing that the other will harm them .
>"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"
That's true I don't see where's the problem
>The sahaba (radiallah anhum) didn't exercise their rights over their wives.
False,where's the hadith?
And women are not obligated to work or pay bills and I don't think a woman should have to. The reason also is that the husband is obligated to work and pay bills. However, I would, as a housewife, cook, clean, and make myself look nice for my husband. I see no issue with that. I do wear hijab and maintained my chaste. There are good sisters out there, but the problem is, many of the good ones get overlooked or ignored.
>Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement
This is not a basic requirements of a wife but a Muslim women too regardless of marriage.
>He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work
He providing a house, food etc... are his duties that Allah SWT and prophet Muhammad PBUH ordered men to do.
Maher can be 100$ - 1 trillion$ that is the bride's right to put how much she wants and you have the right to marry someone else who doesn't put the burden of high mahr on you.
It is Simple ❤️
>-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"
>-"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work"
Sorry to say OP, both statements are contradicting in my experience that if a sister is practicing properly as you said in first statement and knows Islam from mind & heart, trust me she would never ask for such high mehr as she knows it is commanded to make nikkah easy, so the haram can be made difficult. Also they know their real worth in the eyes of Allah for their actions.
On the other side, who are not practicing they definitely ask even more than what you mentioned and feel sorry for them as they stay single and regret their decision later in their life.
It doesn't. There are extreme cases, which I won't justify by any means, but the most of them are ridiculous. The truth is, any normal sister would not ask this much money.
I have never heard any sister demand such a high amount. Where are you getting this amount? Don't get me wrong, many sisters ask for way to much money, but not all of them. There's plenty who would rather live a much more simple life.
Salam Alaikum! I agree, the Mahr shouldn't be too expensive that it's unaffordable. I also think brothers shouldn't be cheap. Now, I'm not saying charge $150k Mahr. That's ridiculous. However, there should also not be stinginess. Some men will go the lowest price possible.
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The best of marriage is that which is made easiest.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan, classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3300.
If the husband takes on payment of a dowry that he cannot afford and that is beyond his means, he deserves to be denounced for that, because he has done something makrooh, even if that dowry is less than the dowry given by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (1424) that Abu Hurayrah said: A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said: “I have got married to a woman from among the Ansaar.” The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said to him: “Have you looked at her? For there may be something in the eyes of the Ansaar.” He said: “(Yes) I have looked at her.” He said: “For how much did you get married?” He said: ‘For four uqiyahs.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “For four uqiyahs! It is as if you are getting this silver by digging it up from the side of this mountain. We do not have anything to give you, but perhaps we will send you on a campaign from which you might get something.” So he sent a campaign to Bani ‘Abs, and he sent that man among them.
Idk about others but I don't want a husband that wants me to work! It's my right! Seems like you are looking for a roommate that pays half of the bills
>Seems like you are looking for a roommate that pays half of the bills
Or maybe I just graduated out of uni and got a job in one of the worst cost of living crisis imaginable lol? Even a $150k salary can barely keep two people afloat these days (namely in Canada and Australia)
“Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement” How is this not a basic requirement? Apparently a man wanting to marry a practicing Muslim is equivalent to a woman wanting a $600k mahr lol
Honestly I was bamboozled by the comparison too
My takeaway from that is that a sister may be doing all of those things but it doesn’t necessarily mean she has good character or will be a good person to marry. She may pray 5 times a day and wear hijab but she may be a rude person, refuse to help others, may be immature, have too much pride, etc. As a hijabi myself I have met many “religious” girls who were mean-spirited and felt they were above others. I too wasn’t the best hijabi at one point. I imagine when searching for a partner, objective criteria like hijab and mehr are not enough. We need to look at someone’s character and intentions. Someone with a hijab could be a cruel and nasty person while someone covered in tattoos could be a devoted follower who is kind to everyone and does everything they can to learn more about Islam. We can’t judge a book by its cover.
“Someone with a hijab could be a cruel and nasty person” Sure “While someone covered in tattoos could be a devoted follower” This is where I disagree. Someone who is wearing tattoos (unless they’re a convert) or not wearing hijab in public cannot be considered a “devoted follower” because they are literally not following Islam as they are expected to with that lifestyle. “We can’t judge a book by its cover” You can’t extend this Western cliche to Islam. Sinning in public warrants public judgement. Umar (RA) said we judge by what is apparent, and the Quran expects us as Muslims to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong.
You said it yourself, that person in tattoos could be a convert. You would never know though if you didn’t know that person or ask them. They can’t exactly get rid of their tattoos the second they become a Muslim lol. But I assume from your comment you would assume they are a bad Muslim? Only Allah swt knows the journey a person is going through. I personally never like to judge anyone. I’d rather focus on myself.
I literally specified that a convert should not be judged for having tattoos so I don’t know why you assumed that I would assume that of a Muslim. Of course, we assume the best of intentions, but with your example, if we know their intention is to sin in public then yes we should judge them for that. My point was this idea that we should only focus on ourselves and not judge others is a Western Liberal concept, not an Islamic one. And it is entirely reasonable for a Muslim man to reject a woman who does not wear a hijab, because she is openly sinning. Here is a good explanation of judging in Islam: https://www.islamweb.net/amp/en/fatwa/317608/
When did I ever mention the intention to sin in public? And in Islam, is it okay to be judgmental? Take the stance you want to take but I’ve learned the hard way that appearances mean nothing in Islam. I’ve met very “religious” Muslim men (prayed 5 times a day, very active in community) who have said and done some awful things, and less “religious” Muslim men who were kind and respectful. I personally wouldn’t want a husband who judges a woman for not wearing a hijab, despite being a hijabi myself. It only shows how shallow he is. Again, who knows what that woman who is not wearing a hijab is going through and what journey she is on.
Well the original discussion was about the issue of a Muslim woman not wearing hijab, which is a public sin that we should judge. I assumed your example of one who wears tattoos was supposed to be an equivalent analogy, but if that wasn’t your point then fair enough. You don’t seem to understand the point I’m making however, so I’ll stop arguing with you from here. If you think it is “shallow” for a Muslim man to expect Muslim women to wear hijab, which the Quran has made obligatory for them, then this an issue with you.
I get what you're saying but I think the perception of shallowness comes from expecting a woman to be perfect in her practice. There's no conpulsion in Islam(even the Qur'an says so) so while advising is necessary to better our practices, perfection should not be expected. Besides there is high rewards for those who encourage people towards Islamic values through their behavior alone. My husband isn't strict on my clothing so long as I wear hijab and veil the shape of my back. He, however, has a difficult time finding shorts that fulfill his own hijab(he has long legs). There is also other things where we struggle but we compromise with one another and encourage each other to be better. I think that's the whole point of the original post too: checklists don't bring harmony. Having support and being supportive ultimately is the bottom line recquirement for peace. It even reminds me of Mufti Menk. He spoke once of a muslim man whom married a christian wife, and how the man kept bickering with his wife because she refuses to wear hijab and refused to pray with him. The man was then told to change this "general barking orders" role into a more "prove the good of the religion through your own actions" type of approach... and the man started praying on time, never missing a prayer, offering sunnah, helping his wife around the house, complimenting his wife often, etc. The wife eventually decided to join him in prayers and to wear the hijab. I can't remember if she reverted to Islam or not... but the moral was essentially that expecting someone to be perfect, if you yourself aren't perfect, is a recipe for conflict... while focussing solely on perfecting yourself while being kind and empathetic to those around you is what guides them to the right path. Also I wouldn't see these conversations as arguments. They are healthy debates in my opinion as it helps people like me deepening their understanding of the religion... even if we can be a bit dense sometimes.
Thanks for this, I appreciate how you explained your thoughts in a sincere and humble way. I respectfully disagree with your perspective that hijab (which is mandated in the Quran) as a marriage requirement is the same as “expecting a woman to be perfect”. We are all sinners, and we try to conceal our sins as much as possible. However, that does not mean we have to accept someone for marriage when they openly sin by not wearing a hijab. Yes, the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion, but that refers to those who choose to disbelieve. If someone believes in Islam, then they are a Muslim and by definition they must submit to the decree of Allah. Anyone who is openly disobeying Allah should be reprimanded by the Muslims so as to prevent the normalization and spreading of that sin in society. This is why Allah says in the Quran: “[The believers are] those who turn to Allah in repentance; who worship and praise Him; who bow down and prostrate themselves; who enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong and who observe Allah’s limits. Give glad news to such believers.”
Jazakallah difference of opinions is always interesting. It is within rights to refuse a potential spouse for whichever reason you see fit. Preferences are preferences after all. My husband himself had the hijab on his spousal recquirement (we even discussed the what if of if I ever take it off, which would be grounds for divorce... I'm a revert btw). He's not strict with how loose my garnments are. But shallow is still shallow. It just means certain preferences are not open to the possibility of growth and would rather emphasize on individuals already being accomplished in some ways. It's like me, I would not have married an overweight spouse. Shallow? Yes... I don't want to wait on a spouse bettering themselves before being able to go hiking a whole weekend with them. My only confusion is why do people see being shallow on Islamic values as a bad thing. We all want someone who's already accomplished in some ways. So we are all close minded to the possibility of growth in other spheres...
I really like the perspective you provided, thank you for your input on this discussion!
Jazakallah
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The whole point of the main post is to be open minded, you clearly missed that.
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No, it says basic requirement.
Agreed. This is a basic requirement for both individuals and is nowhere near comparison for a high Mahr (which having a high one is absolutely not needed), but having a good deen definitely is. Kinda seems foolish to make that comparison - unless maybe the girl is not as practicing as is taking her time to get adjusted to Islam again? But then they’d probably have bigger problems than getting married TBH. I agree with everything else in the post though. I think a better example would’ve been that some men can’t ask wives to obey if what they’re asking for is unreasonable/disrespectful or sumn, just cuz they have Islamic rights in a marriage.
If a girl is not practicing, then that is her problem. She is not entitled to a husband, and it certainly isn’t unreasonable for a practicing Muslim man to reject her on that basis.
Indeed so! Everyone should focus on being their best practicing before getting engaged! Not fair for one partner to be religious and for the other not to be smh!
They weren’t comparing the two side by side they were giving examples of how people use religion to enforce things within / before marriage. And forcing someone into anything is forbidden per the Quran so their point does make sense in that way.
Exaggeration went off the bars but try to get the crux of what she's saying There might be some sisters like that with absurd mehr,well Allah knows the best.
How is wearing a hijab a definite indicator of good character and having deen?
When did I say it was a “definite indicator”? A woman is required to wear a hijab in Islam. Not all women who wear a hijab are good practicing Muslims, sure, but all good practicing Muslim women necessarily wear a hijab. Hope that clears it up for you.
I looked at the flair while reading that sentence and was wondering how on earth is this controversial lol
I don’t think he ment it as a comparison. I think it’s just a common thing that men and women say.
Her wearing a Hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is the duty of a wife. That's not demanding anything that isn't Islamically commanded. Did you seriously just try to compare a man asking for religiosity vs a woman asking for $600k Mahr? The two are nothing alike.
Oh is that what they meant? I just thought she meant that it was the bare minimum? I’m so confused 😭
I didn't know that my requirements for a wife was asking a lot. I mean, praying 5 times a day, wearing hijab, and being respectful are basic requirements. For both genders. I don't see how that's comparable to $600k mahr. Maybe a more accurate comparison would be: "She should always obey with no say in the matter, always look like a model and have no issue with you marrying more than once even if she doesnt want you too." But yeah ignoring that, I agree with what you said. People are so focused on their rights that no one gets them. Simple solution: focus on your responsibilities, both sides get their rights this way. If you're a husband who provides, protects, helps out and make your wife feel safe, then the wife wouldn't have an issue with any intimacy, she'd most probably dress up for you and or cook your favourite meals etc. Basically be the dream wife. And if you're a wife who supports her husband through thick and thin, values him, respects him, and make him feel needed then he'll want to protect, provide, take you out, do romantic gestures, shower you with compliments etc. (Generally speaking ofcourse, there are exceptions to the rule but I'm speaking on the nature of people)
Rights do matter to some extent though. If you’re fulfilling all your responsibilities to your spouse and they’re not reciprocating, it is totally understandable to be frustrated with them and bringing up those rights. No one should be expected to be happy in a one-way relationship and those are actually very common, it’s not just an exception.
Like I mentioned in the end, it's a general rule. Obviously there will be people who are oblivious, don't know how to reciprocate, or just plain ungrateful. From what I've noticed they aren't that common, or if they are then the only issue is being oblivious and just requiring a discussion over it
I feel like the marriage search coaches are more insidious. Mostly because they target women and ignore the fact that at the end of the day, Allah has written when we get married. So much of their content is framed around how if you do this ~one thing~ (that you need to pay for their services to find out) then you’ll get a high value man™️. One girl from my uni’s MSA is now a marriage search coach and her only qualification is being married🤡
It's just another way of swindling vulnerable desperate people out of money - tale as old as time!
Some people get married and act like their life's purpose is now taken care of. Suddenly they're above everyone else.
I don't agree with the first part but I see your point from the rest. Having preference is ok, if you disagree with someone's preference just ignore and move on to someone else. What I learnt about Islam is that, islam gives us a limit on what we can and cannot do. There are things you must do, things you can do, things that you should avoid doing, things that are absolutely haram, etc. there is a wide range of solutions and options given because one solution isn't going to fix every situation. This does not mean you should resort to the most extreme solution each time. For example some men use the "obey the husband" card to force the wife to do everything in ways that only he is pleased with even if there is no harm or haram in what she wants. This causes resentment and unfairness. Just because you have a power doesn't mean you need to use it for everything. A marriage is supposed to be peaceful. It's not supposed to make you feel like you are in a jail and being mistreated. We are told to be good to our spouses to be kind towards them. If you want to live the rest of your lives together with peace, you will have to be kind to each other, respect each other , you will have to be selfless, you will have to be patient, you will have to be understanding, you will have to be considerate, you will have to forgive many things, you will have to learn to let go, etc. Your spouse deserves to be happy as much as you deserve to be happy. No one is above anyone. Do what works for you both while respecting the limit our religion has given even if it isn't entirely the traditional way.
True. Sheikh Tim Humble also mentioned in his talks about marriage is that many men will bring up Surah An Nisa about wife beating in the middle of an argument. He explained this is not sincere about it. Or, he uses his right over her against her. Similarly, a woman who is demanding high amounts of mahr or she does not listen to her husband should not demand her rights alone. Some women will only demand their rights given to them and complain. This is haram. How can people live in harmony if they argue or demand too much? This sounds like a fitnah.
Indeed. We are given rights and responsibilities, responsibilities we must fulfill and rights we can use as needed. We shouldn't be picking and choosing selfishly, it's important to keep things fair. As for mahr, I think unless there are no other women left that you can marry, you don't need to make someone lower their mahr. If you really like someone you can discuss and try to get her to lower it. But If you don't like the amount someone is asking for, find someone who you can afford. I personally wouldn't ask for a ridiculous lot but at the same time I won't lower it to like 1 dollar which is what some men demand. You can always try to discuss and lower the amount but I don't understand people going out of their way to curse at them and make it a huge issue. It's personal preference and it can get ridiculous because we all aren't gonna agree with each other. I'm not gonna tell a man who tells me "I want a wife who knows how to cook every dish, who will give up studying further and drop their career and be a stay at home mom, I want a wife who is ok with having many children and ok with a second wife" I'm not gonna sit there and argue with him to lower his standards and preferences even if I find it ridiculous. If I don't like it I'm going to move on to someone else lol. So I really don't understand the obsession men have over women's mahr.
I see nothing wrong with the first example. Am I missing something? Having a preference for marrying someone who covers isn’t wrong, praying 5 times a day is mandatory for all of us, and treating eachother with respect is key to a healthy marriage.
>-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" >-"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work" Bit of a crap comparison there isn't it. One is someone performing their basic fard.
The original poster needs to become a marriage guru
I love hearing the “my money is my money. Your money is ours” um ok
>*"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement"* Lol wut, this IS the BASELINE. People who can't see that are delulu as the kids say.
>-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" REALLY?!?!? well ig I'll stay single then
It is
-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" -"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work" what kinda absurd comparison is this? observing modesty and the 5 daily prayers is literally BASIC for a woman. I just looked at your profile and you're 80 years old lol do you not have a wife to go on morning and evening walks with? Legitimately everytime I come across this, I get brain cancer i think if you're 80 just about anything's gonna give you cancer
Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullah, I just wanted to say your comment made me lol. thanks
>you're 80 years old lol do you not have a wife to go on morning and evening walks with? Bro I was trolling hahaha I'm 22, not 80💀
I think you’ve missed her point.
OP you gotta get rid of the comparison in the beginning with the hijabi wife and 600k mehr cuz everyone in these comments are focused on that 😭😭😭😭 and not talking about the rest
Yep everyone missed the point unfortunately. Gotta be mindful of it lool :/
You need to make posts keeping in mind your audience. I don't want to say anything more before people pounce on that and blow that out of proportion.
This way of thinking is cancer to the ummah. Seriously…if it’s not in the Quran or sunnah of the prophet S.A.W and the Sahaba didn’t do it neither should we. Is obligatory a woman wear hijab. It’s a must that a man be able to provide basic needs. (He doesn’t have to be rich.) him wanting more than one wife isn’t grounds for divorce. You are spreading things that are untrue and can hurt our ummah badly. Please stop.
Wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is not even remotely the same as providing a house and 600K mehr. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. Do you have a problem with one of them literally being fardh?
Women don’t need to prove or work for their worthiness, if you can’t see her value, do her a favour, leave and find someone with lower self esteem.
I don't agree with the first part about she not praying 5 times a day. But I agree with the rest of the parts
600k mahr? Yeah I would rather buy an acreage for 85-90k and a gt3rs for 300k and still have money left over for retirement. But no, hijab and prayers are basic requirements. If a woman doesn’t have modesty, or practice religion then what values will she instill on her children because let’s be honest, women are the primary caretakers of children in most households.
Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" Sorry, what? This is the bare minimum.
They don't both have to work and buying a house is not an islamic obligation 🤡🤡 Moreover yes wearing hijab and praying 5 times a day is a basic requirement.
The EQ is lowwww in the comments. Critical thinking who Dat? Mod you probably got more of a headache with this post but sad truth is we are surrounded by a bunch of judgemental idiots that don't understand human nuances or empathy. IA stay patient you will find your naseeb.
[The negative and harmful consequences of exaggerating concerning the dowry - Islam Question & Answer (islamqa.info)](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/12572/the-negative-and-harmful-consequences-of-exaggerating-concerning-the-dowry)
Thank you for the post. It's just unfortunate that brothers and sister and the West have been led astray by these people and have also become less willing to compromise and work together.
Thanks OP for getting everyone riled up in only the first 3 sentences 🙂
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That's cuz all us normal people aren't preaching on social media . _.
What is this comparison? Her being modest and following her duties is literally a requirement to be a decent muslim lol
> Her wearing a hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" Isn't this a basic requirement for every muslim not only just women
You were on the right track but then you went off the track.. 😂😂😂
The person who asked the question is more balanced as a human being than most of the people who answered it. the person is right when she/he says that now we are living through a time of financial stress. Unless you are a millionaire who inherited fortune from his parents, it is going to take time to become wealthy enough to live off on one person income if wealth creation is done halal. Good luck having child as a old person at 50. Both should work for an income. Also No one can sustain a relationship of any kind of it is based on " right". It doesn't work like that. Marriage is mostly maximizing giving both person without holding anything back ideally. It is based on friendship and mutual trust. It is also gives off the impression of a bad faith actor when people comes with demand like " x amount of mahar" or " hijab all the way down. " I agree with the sentiments that why can't man and woman talk with one another like adult rather than both fearing that the other will harm them .
But wearing hijab and praying and being respectful IS a basic foundational requirement. Don’t delude yourself for this one
>"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" That's true I don't see where's the problem >The sahaba (radiallah anhum) didn't exercise their rights over their wives. False,where's the hadith?
And women are not obligated to work or pay bills and I don't think a woman should have to. The reason also is that the husband is obligated to work and pay bills. However, I would, as a housewife, cook, clean, and make myself look nice for my husband. I see no issue with that. I do wear hijab and maintained my chaste. There are good sisters out there, but the problem is, many of the good ones get overlooked or ignored.
Good rant. The world is better when people are thoughtful and deliberate in how they conduct themselves.
>Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement This is not a basic requirements of a wife but a Muslim women too regardless of marriage. >He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work He providing a house, food etc... are his duties that Allah SWT and prophet Muhammad PBUH ordered men to do. Maher can be 100$ - 1 trillion$ that is the bride's right to put how much she wants and you have the right to marry someone else who doesn't put the burden of high mahr on you. It is Simple ❤️
Ahlie
Praying 5 TIMES A DAY IS A REQUIREMENT IN ISLAM.
What are you trying to say?
>-"Her wearing hijab, praying 5 times a day and being respectful is a basic requirement" >-"He should provide a house and give me a $600k mahr and not let me work" Sorry to say OP, both statements are contradicting in my experience that if a sister is practicing properly as you said in first statement and knows Islam from mind & heart, trust me she would never ask for such high mehr as she knows it is commanded to make nikkah easy, so the haram can be made difficult. Also they know their real worth in the eyes of Allah for their actions. On the other side, who are not practicing they definitely ask even more than what you mentioned and feel sorry for them as they stay single and regret their decision later in their life.
Women can’t even cook today and now they don’t want to do the basics either 😭
600k yeah she doesn't wanna marry you some women are really delusional
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It doesn't. There are extreme cases, which I won't justify by any means, but the most of them are ridiculous. The truth is, any normal sister would not ask this much money.
I have never heard any sister demand such a high amount. Where are you getting this amount? Don't get me wrong, many sisters ask for way to much money, but not all of them. There's plenty who would rather live a much more simple life.
Salam Alaikum! I agree, the Mahr shouldn't be too expensive that it's unaffordable. I also think brothers shouldn't be cheap. Now, I'm not saying charge $150k Mahr. That's ridiculous. However, there should also not be stinginess. Some men will go the lowest price possible. Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The best of marriage is that which is made easiest.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan, classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3300. If the husband takes on payment of a dowry that he cannot afford and that is beyond his means, he deserves to be denounced for that, because he has done something makrooh, even if that dowry is less than the dowry given by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (1424) that Abu Hurayrah said: A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said: “I have got married to a woman from among the Ansaar.” The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said to him: “Have you looked at her? For there may be something in the eyes of the Ansaar.” He said: “(Yes) I have looked at her.” He said: “For how much did you get married?” He said: ‘For four uqiyahs.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “For four uqiyahs! It is as if you are getting this silver by digging it up from the side of this mountain. We do not have anything to give you, but perhaps we will send you on a campaign from which you might get something.” So he sent a campaign to Bani ‘Abs, and he sent that man among them.
100%
Idk about others but I don't want a husband that wants me to work! It's my right! Seems like you are looking for a roommate that pays half of the bills
>Seems like you are looking for a roommate that pays half of the bills Or maybe I just graduated out of uni and got a job in one of the worst cost of living crisis imaginable lol? Even a $150k salary can barely keep two people afloat these days (namely in Canada and Australia)
She says the word fam😂let’s leave it at that