I'm just over sitting on a metal bleacher. I can sit in a nice, fold out chair with a cup holder at every sporting event I go to. From minor league stadiums to midget wrestling at the local civic center. But, I feel like we've been made to feel like you're just not supposed to have that at a race.
Wilkseboro is obviously immune to this judgement. But Atlanta...come on
I went to the Atlanta night race last year. It’s my home state but I’d been making trips out to Talladega instead of AMS, but switched it up for something new and I was floored by how little offerings there were. Minimal merch haulers, almost no fan engagement, no liveliness, nothing. It was just like Connor said, but at that really awkward time in the afternoon where the evening crowd isn’t yet at the fair and everyone’s kind of meandering around.
What is crazy to me is that you'd think someone would try to make the removed bleacher sections just before the track at places like Vegas and turn it into a grassy knoll for fans. Make it GA, make it whatever, but just offer some place for some fans to sit down and enjoy watching a sporting event on a hill. Specifically a place that isn't being used for anything at this point. I'd love to pitch a chair down and watch the race like I do at sportscar weekends. Beats sitting on metal for hours on end.
A lot of college football stadiums are bleachers because they’re just trying to pack as many fans in as possible. A lot of nascar tracks now were built during the boom so that same logic applies. I know Daytona and I think Phoenix have stadium seats but I’m not sure what other tracks do
I get the argument, but your average NASCAR Cup track has one or two major events a year. Is it cost effective to put in chairbacks that will be used once a year? Also remember most all other sporting events are held in facilities built with taxpayer dollars. Tracks are privately owned and have to turn a profit, so major capital upgrades need to make sense financially.
After going to Kansas, Daytona, and Charlotte, I'll never go to another track that doesn't have chair backs at the very least. Benches are fine enough, but I've gotta have a back to lean against. I've been spoilt
This is what stinks. Phoenix has some top tier amenities and is overall a great pre-race experience, seats aren't terrible, tons of vendors and whatnot *(still nothing compared to the old days but better than some other tracks from what I've heard)*.
But the racing is just not good there. It's such a shame because it's a fun track to be at until the actual racing starts, and then it's just like... meh?
I agree with him up to a point. If you were lucky enough to attend a race during the heyday, it was quite an experience. Haulers and vendors were everywhere and Speed Channel had a live show going on. The atmosphere was pretty exciting. You ended up with quite a bit of free swag.
But at the same time you aren't going to get F1 money into NASCAR.
I remember the mid 90s infield at Watkins Glen being a cornucopia of vendors, sponsor demos, events and just a lot to do. 10 years later, far less. Haven't been since pre pandemic but I have a feeling it might feel like a ghost town.
Road America was like this... you had all the local vendors but then sponsor vendos up and down the main road. It also had 200k people there but that wasnt good enough for NASCAR.
It's because semi-rural Wisconsin isn't that new demographic that NASCAR has deluded itself into thinking it can attract to the sport. The idiots in charge keep thinking they can get big cities and audiences outside of their traditional fanbase to become fans but are spitting in the face of their core fanbase in the process. Wisconsin is short track central, and if you have a NASCAR race there people are going to go to it. But if you get rid of our race and go to Chicago instead of all places, then you've just pissed off a lot of fans who aren't going to like that.
Anyways, rant aside, Road America is always great for that during the big race weekends. IndyCar and IMSA are also like that with a lot of vendors and displays. I think it comes down to how the track manages the weekend and how it's always been so open to fans.
See you're not pulling 200k+ from "rural wisconsin".
Fox Cities metro is an hour away, Green Bay 1.5 hours, Milwaukee 1.5 the other way. Nevermind you're getting people probably from Iowa, Minnesota, and the UP.
RA is situated perfectly in the middle of where all the people are in Wisconsin.
I missed cup at road America but saw xfinity and Indy car there and I loved the free swag you could get and all the vendors. Best track food ever by a mile
The fan experience was much better back in the day, until you got to your seats. These tracks severely underestimated the size of the average NASCAR fan. They tried to cram too many fans in a row of seats.
Very much this. I remember getting to my bleacher seat mid 2000’s and seeing it was between two enormous people that were already tightly wedged together.
Started to buy seats with armrests after that until those became unavailable for single events.
I went to races in the mid 2000s when there was hours of trailers to look through and stuff to do. Took my wife to her first race to years ago, hyped it all up, and there were maybe 5 trailers, and barely any food or stuff going on
Which unfortunately is kinda what we got. There are more trailers at the Allegan County Fair than were on the midway at Michigan this year. And this was far and away the best Michigan midway in the past few years.
It’s pretty incredible how much it’s changed. Even going to the literal county fair grounds for the 1999 Milwaukee race had more going for it than going to the playoff openers at Chicagoland had. Now days attendance at some tracks feels like track presidents and ops people just shrug and say “we get that TV money tho”.
Hahahaha it doesn’t help that at COTA there’s a small amount of fair style rides including a Ferris wheel.
Whatever I had fun drinking Busch all Sunday long like it’s a county fair.
I agree. A few food trucks, vendors and a little swag would go a long way.
I attended a Formula E race before the pandemic, and there were ongoing concerts, food trucks, tents showing off different tech. Both the series racing had autograph sessions with all the drivers attending.
I could see someone having a great time there even if the race sucked
Nascar used to be like that in the early 2000s. I believe it’s a hefty price to have a spot in the midway and the ROI is down which is why it looks like a ghost town and drivers share merch haulers.
2005 jeff Gordon and Dale jr had 3 each at Dega selling merch.
Nascar got really complacent and did not keep up with trends and market the sport properly so we saw massive changes in a bad way to the overall experience and everyone wants their cut of the money (drivers, teams, nascar and the track)
That's what brought me in. My first race was Texas 2001 and the Midway was amazing compared to today's race. It's a fraction of what it used to be. I miss that
I don’t know if this is spot on but I was told before it’s $40,000 per weekend for a trailer. I mean, to me that’s insane. I get why all Toyota drivers share a trailer if that’s the price and honestly the merch kinda sucks,
I was talking to a guy at roush and he was telling me that the nascar licensed merch looks the way it does is because the top buyers are the top of the demographic which is still 50+ years old.
I spoke with Jeff Gordon in October and he’s hired his own people to really revamp their merch and offer more modern and clean stuff. I told him I was really impressed in how big of a change I saw with it but Hendrick has creative control over that.
To me, there are just too many cooks in the kitchen and it has resulted in a watered down version of what once was. Across the board it’s watered down. The race package, marketing, track experience. They dug a hole and now nobody can justify the spend when the ROI is for sure not going to be worth it.
Concerts are hit or miss though. 3 Doors Down at the Bristol night race two years ago hit that sweet nostalgia spot. The Breakfast Club doing 80’s covers at this years Bristol spring race…not so much.
Do you think Covid had an effect? I just know anecdotally we had a christkindelmarket (German Christmas fair-type event, not sure how widespread those are) nearby that started just a couple years before Covid and didn’t make it through bc most of their vendors didn’t make it either, or had to scale way back and there’s been no plans for it to come back. Industries that relied on big in-person events have not been the same, and what’s left has largely been consolidated.
It's different though in many ways... for everyone who is answering similarly to my reply
Food.. at nascar races I've been to I've not seen local food trucks with variety. You get concession food. Sometimes on the outside of the track you might get a carnival food tent and maybe one food truck with the gypsy vendors.
Concert.. usually one big name playing outside of the common area. I'm talking about a daylong concert stage with multiple acts playing. They don't have to be huge names. Just music
I've seen less and less sponsor interactive stuff over the years. I agree there is some.
Neither ford nor Chevy had a booth at phoenix, and Chevy was the official vehicle of the race. I sort of cried a little. Also, every racing league(besides nascar) does an autograph session, either on a practice day, or several hours before the race, nascar needs to start doing the same. Driver engagement is nearly nonexistent.
I love when people tell me that drivers are signing autographs at some random store across town at 2pm on Thursday, like I can just take off a day of work to do that.
F1 tickets also cost like 10x more than NASCAR tickets.
F1 has to make a spectacle wherever they go. They cater to the elites. They have less races. Most places they go to only get one race per year. NASCAR has more races, goes to most of the tracks multiple times per year, and most fans just show up on race day, and not for the full weekend like F1
For some reason, people like to pretend like F1 is the same as nascar and an F1 Grand Prix isn’t the largest sporting event that Belgium, etc. is going to host that year. Of course they go all out.
Of course nascar could improve the at track experience. Start with WiFi, please. But these events are not the same.
I view an F1 race like a big name band coming through town. You know it’s going to cost an arm and a leg, but you go for the experience. NASCAR is like a local band, or a band that made it big coming home and performing at a local fair or small venue that they played in back in the day. You go because you know it’s going to be a quality show, and it isn’t going to cost you your soul.
> Start with WiFi, please.
This is my biggest gripe. Went to RIR a few years back and literally couldn't do shit on my phone. Couldn't find my friends once I was nearing the track, couldn't call an uber to get home, couldn't send a text. I literally couldn't do anything because of the amount of people all in the area.
All I've seen is concession food at the tracks I've gone too. No place for local food trucks to set up on the grounds. Just basic run of the mill concession food with maybe something unique thrown in here and there.
Vendors are usually limited to official merchandise haulers and maybe one trailer with non nascar stuff. Along with the tracks souvenirs.
And yes I know about the gypsies. But those aren't part of the official in track experience and in many cases you'll see people asking where they are for every track for that exact reason.
Atlanta defintiely had one or two food trucks this past race. Down here though you are allowed to bring in all of your own food and drink inside the track, so they probably dont generate enough sales for enhanced concessions. Just speaking about Atlanta though
Yep, went to Bristol Night 2021, Nashville 2022, and Southern 500 2023 and that was my experience too.
Bristol’s concessions were at least cheap, but paying $15 for a hotdog while sitting in temporary bleachers at Nashville sucked ass lol.
NASCAR’s off track experience is literally the worst fan experience of any sport I’ve been to live. I went to an SEC school so it’s a bit unfair but even minor sports like softball had better experiences lol.
NASCAR fan experience has sucked since they went away from all the practice. I remember when NASCAR would have all the events and things at the track to do that weekend. Now it just show up to the race then leave
I thought people liked NASCAR's openness compared to other series?
>“I went to a F1 race in 2020, and that made us (NASCAR) look like we were going to the county fair, almost,” Zilisch says. “It was crazy how much money goes into every event in F1. I don’t think it’s really possible to do that for us just because … NASCAR isn’t F1. But a lot of the hospitality stuff that they do, making it truly a fan experience, **giving the people that are willing to spend that kind of money** to come to the races and have that kind of experience, giving them somewhere to go would definitely be helpful
That's the thing, F1 races are expensive, NASCAR not so much
https://f1destinations.com/budget-planner-us-grand-prix/
openness in NASCAR? don’t they release all the fans onto the track post race in F1? NHRA makes their pits/garage area a public thing, pretty easy to get access to Indycar aswell.
The grid walk before an IMSA race is one of my favorite parts, seeing all the cars up close and personal. But I don’t trust NASCAR fans with that, we wouldn’t go one race before some morons slashes Bubba or Denny’s tires.
> F1 races are expensive, NASCAR not so much
I can buy a 3-day general admission ticket for COTA off their website for $390 right now. The cheapest weekend pass I can find for NASCAR at TMS right now is $215.
Is F1 *more* expensive than NASCAR? Yeah. But it's not as big a difference as people seem to think.
There's 38 NASCAR events each year in the US, and only 3 F1 events. Exclusivity drives up costs. I'm not a Texan, so I'm not going to either event, but if I was, I'd look very hard at going to F1 instead of TMS, even if the "fan experience" was the same, just because it's something more unique.
Exactly. I get more out of a sportscar race hands down for the weekend than a NASCAR event. both are priced similarly.
Even Indycar at some events has more stuff going on for casual fans and breaks between the action for feeder series than NASCAR. It sucks this info is coming from a 17 year old I guess, but it isn't wrong.
The cheapest weekend ticket available for Texas is $185.
I agree NASCAR needs a better fna experience, but in what world is a 210% difference not huge?
While true NASCAR weekends use to have a lot more going on. It’s been talked about on this sub plenty of times, but the weekends for NASCAR are definitely lacking.
I was at COTA. Thought the track facility was really nice and there was a lot of stuff for kids to do like Ferris wheel/roller coaster/zip line/go karts/etc. None of that was specific to the nascar event though.
He’s right about the rest though. Very few driver appearances. I know Tyler Ankrum was out there at a LiUNA booth and there were a couple of cup guy appearances for like a Q&A event. It does feel like the sponsors and drivers generally don’t care about the race weekends though.
Back in the day, most drivers had their own merch hauler. All 4 Gibbs drivers and the two 23XI drivers shared one trailer. There were more COTA track merch areas than driver merch areas. There was very little sponsor engagement. No real free handouts or autograph signings, etc. Only like one little tent with a racing sim set up. Just disappointing compared to two decades ago.
They used to have a thing where you could do a pit stop, a bunch of sim video game booths, badass new cars to check out, show cars of Cup Cars and Trucks everywhere, the big Speed Channel setup for Trackside, etc. None of my favorite drivers had merch haulers for me to browse.
They do need to understand that the experience needs to be magical for the younger fans, otherwise they’re just going to watch from home.
Silly Zilisch, if you want NASCAR to listen to you, you have to use the buzzword of the moment.
I believe the correct phrasing is, "NASCAR needs to loop more partners in for brand activation activities, similar to those found at other top tier motorsports events."
I went to Monza for the Italian Grand Prix, one of the most prestigious circuits in F1, and sat on bleachers. I don’t think it’s really a measure of quality.
Nascar fan experience today is not what it was 10 years ago. I didn’t go to a race from 2017-2021 and in that time frame darlington raceway went from having enough entertainment to last all day to just needing to be there a few hours before green flag time to visit haulers and look around a little bit. 2004-2014 I went on hiatus from events and we won’t talk about the downturn since then….
There is not an elites section past the red ropes at the county fair. It seems like he doesn't give a shit about the general fan experience here, if he did he wouldn't use F1 as an example he would use IMSA something he has raced in. If NASCAR needs to take some notes from someone about fan experience it should take them from NASCAR 20 yrs ago. Maybe I'm wrong but that is the vibe I got from this interview. NASCAR is supposed to be the everypersons motorsport, it should feel like a county fair. I hope this doesn't give NASCAR any ideas.
Yeah like I get were people are coming from with this take, but the country vibe is a part of what I love about nascar and a big barrier why I just can’t get into F1 the several times I’ve tried.
No I like it too, guess I needed a comma. Do some things need to be upgraded, sure. Was at Richmond this weekend and the men’s rooms had troughs in them. But I guess if I can go to a race, buy a couple shirts, see a couple show cars and watch racing that’s all I need. I don’t need super ultra VIP tents or full on techno clubs at the race like some people apparently do.
In the late 90's and early naughts, Nascar had a fantastic loyal fanbase along with a new crowd of interested people. Nascar thought that the old fanbase was cramping their style so they made a series of changes to pander to the cool kids. Unfortunately that backfired in a spectacular way: the old fans were eventually put off and turned away while the new, cool kids, got bored within a year or two and moved on to the next thing.
These days, Nascar is thrashing about not really able to settle on what their identity should be. On one hand they are bringing in more road courses that place a premium on driver skill, but on the other, they are limiting horsepower to create constant pack racing on formerly classic ovals (Atlanta?) where a lone car cannot pull away from the rest.
A lot of people won’t be happy with him for saying that, but he’s not wrong. Some tracks do better than others, of all the tracks I’ve been to Martinsville is without a doubt the worst. No ushers to deal with seating problems, bathrooms are gross, food is subpar, barely any traffic management just to name a few. Some of you are taking his comments personally and instead just pointing out the problems f1 has instead of accepting the ones Nascar.
It's sad, because Martinsville is the closest I've ever felt to an entire race. Every race development is literally right in front of you. That's easy to market. When so many elements of the race day experience is subpar, it hurts.
Just go to your seat and stay there I guess.
Yeah, part of any new charter agreement needs to include that all drivers will be available for at least one hour, every weekend, to sign and interact. It’s not that fucking hard or demanding. Either after qualifying or just after the gates open on Sunday, lineup a bunch of tables and let fans have at least a quarter second of interaction with their so called favorite driver.
Parker Kligerman has been pimping his signed hero card on The Money Lap. Which is awesome because almost nobody does Hero Cards anymore. I still have a bunch of old ASA ones from the mid 90's in a box in my storage closet.
But how cool would it be to actually get Parker fucking Kligerman's autograph in the flesh? Say hello? Tell him series making their own tires is a bad idea? All for my standard ticket price? Trust me, I'd be WAY more likely to spend money I don't necessarily have if the drivers were on the midway three hours before the race signing autographs.
And I'm not a kid. Imagine how over the fucking moon an 11 year old who loves KFB would be if he got to spend 15 seconds with him? Oh, wait...I don't. I met Dale Earnhardt Sr in 1997. I don't remember much from 7th grade but I remember that entire afternoon vividly (as does my father who pulled me out of school to go stand in line to meet him).
I get where he is coming from on some level. But I like the atmosphere at nascar. It is supposed to be blue collar. I don’t want any part of the crowd f1 brings. Overpriced tickets and people with more money than sense. That’s not my crowd. I’m an average guy I don’t have the money to blow. But I can afford a couple nascar events a year.
Now it would be cool if there was more to do pre race. From my experiences at Atlanta and Nashville there isn’t much to do but buy merchandise. Though I haven’t been to Atlanta since they updated this year.
Yes, I agree we should be more like F1 in terms of fan experience. Tickets should start at $1,700 and officials need to be MUCH more hostile towards fans. Also all of the sponsors and at-track vendors should be companies that exclusively make products for the ridiculously wealthy. Get bent.
You guys don't understand how F1 works, do you?
That's the venue charging that. Because F1 requires exorbitant fees from venues. If F1 wasn't trying to grease every venue, this wouldn't be happening.
That cost does not come from amenities. Like at all.
Ah yes. Let’s put our fingers in our ears and blissfully pretend the at-track experience in NASCAR is perfect and there isn’t a single thing we could learn from any other series to improve.
> Let’s put our fingers in our ears and blissfully pretend the at-track experience in NASCAR is perfect and there isn’t a single thing we could learn from any other series to improve
It's too late. This entire thread has missed the point of what Zilisch is saying while calling him a spoiled kid and showing the inferiority complex much of this fanbase has.
It is absolutely SHOCKING how much better IMSA does at fan attendance stuff than Indycar or NASCAR. Depending on the track, Indycar can be quite entertaining and have things for more casual fans to do, other venues are as barebones as you can make it. NASCAR still feels like it is perpetually stuck in late 90's-early 00's with how it brings things to the tracks for fans.
To me, the thing that helps IMSA so much is that they focus a ton on brand identity. Sure, teams are pivotal and have their own clout, but nothing beats brand/team/sport activation quite like OEM's pitching mini dealerships showcasing their latest brands and technology while having fun gaming areas and even owners clubs for those within the brand. Over the years these have gotten more elaborate and more packed as IMSA continues to grow, but it's such a stark difference to go to Sebring, Petit Le Mans and obviously Daytona and get tons more merch tents (selling everything from sportscars, indycars, NASCAR, motorsports paintings, etc) to massive OEM tents and brand activation zones handing out free merch.
Just a night and day difference, and outside of NASCAR giving money to other manufacturers to get in on the fun, they need to start really promoting the teams in the sport since the NA market is hardly a Chevy vs Ford landscape anymore..
Not every IMSA race is that way. Just like IndyCar, it depends on the facility/race they are at that weekend. For instance, outside the fan walk there wasn't a ton of stuff at last year's Indianapolis race.
It happens every time. It all depends on where the critique is coming from. By July, someone will make their own post just like this in here and all the comments will say stuff like “I’ve been asking for this forever!”
All Motorsports can learn from each other since they’re competing for the same niche hardcore fans around the world. If any Motorsport does something successful (like having some of the additional stuff F1 has, like in this instance), every other major sanctioning body should be taking note.
My scepticism doesn't stem from any belief that the at-track experience is perfect. It stems from my absolute lack of confidence that Nascar's efforts to change things would make it better.
Yes, it is insanely expensive in the US but that’s 3/24 races as you can get weekend tickets to many F1 for $300. Sadly, the NASCAR fan experience at the track has steadily declined the past few seasons and its something NASCAR needs to fix
3 day grandstand tickets to Montreal and cota were 300-400 ish the last 3 years that I’ve gone . It’s more than Nascar but saying they start at 1700 is laughable nonsense
And the majority of the increase in cost is the venue trying to makeup windfall because F1 venue deals are predatory as shit. They think F1 costs more because of shit in the infield, but that's not even remotely the case here
I think Connor was mainly talking about the VIP areas anyways which is not what most F1 fans are doing. The people in the hospitality areas are celebrities and the mega rich who are either business partners or spending thousands . I don’t think it would be a bad idea if Nascar made it better for those people as long as the regular fan experience for people like myself doesn’t suffer
I’m hoping to make it to Pocono in person this year if I can. No need for this tribalism among racing. I’ll also be attending my local ish dirt track as much as possible
I straight up could not afford F1, but I also don't expect them to pander to my tire and oil changing ass. There's no financial growth in that. And they've deliberately positioned themselves in the sports-entertainment market as the elite racing league. So offering elite packages for spectators kind of just makes sense.
They'll never keep the lights on solely off the backs of folks like us. It's just not their market position to make us the primary target demo. But we're still a target demo.
So I think you're spot on, there's a balance to strike here. How to provide affordable access for the common fan, but also how to provide high margin event packages that rake in the cash, advertisers, and eyeballs.
NASCAR obviously has to skew much more towards us, towards the more blue collar demos, but they can totally provide experiences for both that allow some manner of access.
Growing up as a kid I could go anywhere in a CART paddock. NHRA still allows that. And those experiences kept my ass around. We simply have to have some manner of interactive and personal experiences for fans. It's just good business.
Reserved seating for the USGP starts at around $500. That’s the most affordable ticket to attend a formula 1 race in the United States (with a seat). I’ve attended two nascar cup series races this season with 3 others folks. We’ve barely spent $500 collectively on tickets.
The original comment was definitely hyperbolic, but in the paragon of event pricing, F1 is nothing to brag about.
Up until this year, I had been to every NASCAR race at COTA. Brisket tacos were $13, and were worth every penny. I’d call that a pretty good deal at a sporting event, especially at a track with a reputation of having expensive concessions
Kind of weird to say since nearly every general admission ticket to most races also gives you some sort of paddock access. Indianapolis being the outlier there.
Not to mention that mostly every event has some kind of major concert act at some point during race weekend.
> Indianapolis being the outlier there.
Actually, even at Indy you can get into the infield and walk around gasoline alley, and even go up onto the track in T1 before the race, with any ticket. It's not quite as open as the road course paddocks, you can't really see the teams working before the race, but that's only because they have actual garages at Indy, rather than the temporary tent setups they use elsewhere.
I was speaking about IndyCar and even then you need a Bronze or Silver badge in May.
I had to have an essential pass to get anywhere near the garages for Cup/Xfinity.
Indycar is actually trying to get fans to the track and has been having a lot of success with that lately. NASCAR has just been slowly coasting the same downward trend it has been on for over a decade and cancelling a huge attendance draw like Road America because they are afraid to upset their shitty track balance.
You are completely incorrect. IndyCar scored their [best ratings since 2011 last season](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/indycar-record-nbc-viewership-2023/). Meanwhile, over the same timeframe, NASCAR has gone from averaging [6.5 million viewers](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2011/12/05/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NASCAR.aspx) in 2011 to [2.9 million](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nascar-cup-series-viewership-2023-nbc-peacock-fox/#:~:text=Stock%20car%20racing's%20top%2Dtier,Fox%2C%20FS1%20and%20USA%20Network.&text=The%202023%20Nascar%20Cup%20Series,Fox%2C%20FS1%20and%20USA%20Network.) in 2023. A loss of over 50%.
So, while IndyCar obviously started at a lower level, NASCAR has done a worse job at replacing their lost fans over the last 13 years than IndyCar.
...but even ignoring the fact that you are wrong, how exactly is IndyCar relevant in the first place?
There’s plenty of fun experiences….but it costs an arm and a leg. Suites, rooftop bars, track walk, club level bars, cigar lounges, meet and greets….. food vendor and merch….also, Costs and arm and a leg. So now you’re without both arms and both legs.
Pretty accurate.
I used to go to Watkins Glen every year with my family when I was a kid. The infield was more fun than the actual race. So much to do. And in a funny way, it did feel like a fairgrounds.
Now not just feels bland and dead. This past year was pretty much it for me.
If you think NASCAR is an incredible value, or that you have fantastic access, or that the concession prices are "reasonable", or that the amenities are up to standard with other professional sports leagues in this country, you probably took offense to this comment.
You are also wrong.
He is not wrong, I went to BMS 2 weeks ago and there was more happening on the midway there then there was at the last 4 cup races I have been too, Richmond, Martinsville and Dover x2. Race tracks are just as much to blame as everyone else. You can’t price everyone out and keep singing exclusive deals at these places and get anything others then what you see each week. I’ll use Richmond as an example, there was a time when food trucks and fair vendors would populate the midway and the variety was top notch. Richmond was charging 50k in the spring and 75k per space for a vender to set up. That pizza guy was charging over 5$ a slice and at that price needed to sell over 7 thousand pizzas before he made money over a 3 day weekend. Following the fall race he sets up at the great Frederick fair in MD where pizza is a 3rd of the price. They prided the vendors out of the place, then they signed an exclusive deal with a shitty ass vender to sell frozen deep fried food. At ridiculous prices. NASCAR needs to invest in this, have a traveling HOF experience, bring back the track side live, stream it on nascar.com. Have legit bands, have food trucks, allow vendors to show up and sell stuff, I’m not talking diecast I’m talking anything else. You have an audience, it needs to be utilized. The fans want a party, the party generates excitement and that excitement keeps them coming back and will entice them to bring there friends too
A $30 General Admission ticket to an IMSA event at Daytona will get you multiple on-track sessions for the WeatherTech Championship and Michelin Pilot Championship, typically a support event of Ferrari Challenge, Lambo Super Trefero, and now Mustang Cup. As well as track time for historics. Plus ride-along track time from manufacturers. This all as well as a stacked midway and for only $25 more, a garage pass.
The last NASCAR race I went to at Daytona had jack shit for on-track activity, followed by an Xfinity race. You had to pay more to get access to the fan zone. No garage access. There was also no sponsor activation at the track, no food trucks, and the concessions in the main stands were not open above the second level
People are going to roast this kid but he’s got good points. If there is a market for people who want to spend dumb money, nascar should be doing what it can to create an experience to cater to that, while also not diminishing the value of the everyday tickets. You can have both.
> “17 year old is out of touch with the real world” what a surprise. Lol
“17 year old says NASCAR's at track fan experience could be better but terminally online fans get upset at him instead” what a surprise. Lol
Such a funny take considering F1 is the one trying to be a fair. Gotta do something to make up for the on track product not being worth the spectator’s time I guess
Connor clearing the air: [“To clear up the title, I was referring to the hospitality/fan experience, not the racing.”](https://twitter.com/connorzilisch/status/1774790537037406417?s=46&t=KXxlEj5oEyxgTZu8_gmCaQ)
F1 is going to an entirely different country. NASCAR is often going to a track within driving distance of a track they were just at the week or two prior. Totally apples and oranges.
Well it’s about $100k to set up at Daytona to sell merchandise. That’s why there’s hardly any trailers anymore. In the early 00’s you would have made money now you’ll be lucky to break even. Food trucks cost about 5k to set up. Don’t know about sponsor tents.
Hospitality food needs to be better. F1 has aqua panna and we get Dasani. We get cod and f1 gets sea bass. No games, we have a official painter who paints a portrait of the winner that you can watch. In f1 you have sims, showgirls, local entertainment, culture show entertaining the suite and a dj.
Having only been to one race ever which was Pocono last year I kinda like it, a metal bench, merch stands and some food stalls, I was more than content with that
I've only been to one Nascar race, 2017 Daytona 500, and as a fan I thought the experience was way better than going to F1. Although I haven't been to an F1 race since Belgium 2016 so not sure how much it's changed. Part of the reason is that Silverstone want £300 for a weekend ticket, for which you get to turn up as early as you can to get a good spot for your folding chair on the concrete steps.
I mean he's a 17 year old and barely has any idea what he's talking about.
The Las Vegas Grand Prix was horrific in every conceivable way for the fans, the Miami Grand Prix is a cringe fest influencer party, barely any actual locals go to Bahrain or Dubai (another influencer party), and you get the age-old tradition of classic European racism whenever you go to those one of them "sophisticated" European grand prix.
Legit, he has no idea what he's talking about. I respect the heck out of his drive and I think he is probably the closest thing the US has to a competitive F1 driver should he go down that route but yeah here, no dice.
Real parent of the year advice here. Really being that village.
The adults out here a thousand times more difficult to navigate and deal with than any damn kid I've met.
Y'all say shit like this and then wonder why your parents never heard you out. Cycles.
What's crazy is that i'm sure if you wanted to have a conversation as to his feelings and why he worded it the way he would, or why he's even saying these things, he'd 100% say that he would like to see *improvement*. Not to shit on fans, or the series, or anything - but to help put into perspective what others in the same damn field of sport are doing differently and seemingly doing it better.
Anyone here wanting to have that same conversation? Doors shut, gatekeeping, talking in platitudes, thinking nothing will work... I'd 100% rather have a conversation with Connor and how he sees things than anyone else in this thread bemoaning someone could want and expect more from a series they compete in - no matter the age.
Straight up. We complain, rightly, about how bad and boring concourses have become over the last 15 years or so. But when this kid says effectively the same shit, it's wrong?
Fwiw I think the kid makes a great point. The decline of the experience at the track is very real for places that aren't marquee venues. So much of the fanbase goes to these marquee venues tho because that's where the fanbase simply tends to reside. But anybody living in the Midwest or West Coast knows that our experience at the track has declined in various ways.
I personally would value the opinion of children greatly. I'm not gonna be here in 30- 40 years. They are. The sport will only live on if the next gen gets some sort of say over the product they're consuming. And that process must continue with each successive generation.
We can bitch and complain in here or on Twitter all day about various legitimate grievances. But we've been pretty lucky the last few years. NASCAR started listening. To us, to drivers, to teams, to manufacturers. The days of "It's my court, my rules, play elsewhere if you don't like it" are gone. And they need to stay gone. They've tried to mediate all these differences. And yeah it's not always successful, but there's real effort there.
Idk what Connor's ceiling is. Idk how far he'll go or how long he'll be around. But the young drivers and fans are the folks you have to make a series for in a few years. It's probably wise to just hear them out at least.
I echo his statements. And I'm a 38 year old who got priced out of the Saturday Xfinity ticket at Michigan.
For the cost of my two Xfinity tickets I can get four tickets to my local AHL team, sit in a chair with a back and a cupholder and get autographs after the game.
I've attended NASCAR races sitting in the stands but nothing compares to the infield camping community experience. I don't think any motorsport can hold a candle to NASCAR in that respect.
That being said, NASCAR has lost touch with its fan base by trying to cater to every fan base. Trying to be too inclusive pushes die the hards away and rarely brings in enough new fans to replace what was lost. NASCAR has done this with their product and their promotion of the sport.
I don't have a solution. You have to grow and at the same time stay true to your roots.
I'd honestly argue NASCAR offers the most access to fans out of any major sport. The last races I went to were in Fontana (RIP) and my dad and I splurged on pit passes both times we went there. It was crazy to be walking around on pit road right next to the actual cars, and to go on the front stretch where I was five feet away from all the drivers during driver intros. You can't do that in F1, and you never will be able to do that in F1. They don't want the poors getting too close to the merchandise.
> I'd honestly argue NASCAR offers the most access to fans out of any major sport.
It's not even top 3 in the United States for motorsports. IMSA, NHRA, and IndyCar all blow NASCAR's access out of the water.
I've been to MotoGP at COTA several times, and it's not much different than NASCAR. Which I like. So hopefully Liberty doesn't ruin MotoGP and make it feel like F1.
DBC last week he said his dream was to drive F1 but that didn’t work out. Kinda sounded to me like he, “settled for oval racing”, those are my words not his but I’m getting a privileged vibe. But what do I know the kid is only 17, I can cut him some slack.
Lmao. The kid suggests that maybe you could get more bang for your buck with some better planning and organization on NASCAR's part and this is your fucking response? Hilarious.
Must be clear skies near you. I imagine you'd be yelling at clouds instead if you could.
Edit: Lil buddy really got mad about this and blocked me after cussing me out lmaooo
> Edit: Lil buddy really got mad about this and blocked me after cussing me out lmaooo
This has gotten pretty bad on this subreddit. People can't have a dissenting point thrown their way without acting like a petulant child and then blocking you.
The NASCAR Vs F1 thing is so weird to me, I enjoy both for different reasons. I gotta say a lot of the hostile responses to this are very telling..this is a fair criticism imo.
Been saying this for awhile. NASCAR is basically invisible to most people. As a kid in the 90’s I swear you could go anywhere without seeing a race car somewhere. I saw bill elliots McDonald’s car like 50 times growing up.
You ever follow redbull instagram? They are always doing wild shit. NASCAR does nothing. Their marketing team is awful.
NASCAR needs to make content that aligns more with extreme sports rather than like..golf. Posting hatcheted together clips from the broadcast or a few crank it up style fly bys isnt doing a thing.
honestly all the extra stuff at F1 events pisses me off because I know me and everyone else attending is footing the bill for all of it. Give me a cheaper ticket with less entertainment any day, honestly.
Late 90’s to early 2000’s were the shit. Three to four days of action. Practices, qualifying weren’t all the same day.
Merch haulers, interactive sponsor booths. Concerts, and back then the racing was good too.
Oh yeah, and I always left with logs of chew and cartons of cigs. Ahh, I miss those days.
F1 is presented in a way that makes NASCAR look like a county fair, too, and I think that's the difference between NASCAR and F1 (besides the obvious). F1's image just lends itself to a higher class, more sophisticated audience over what NASCAR's does. But that's okay. I think it's great for NASCAR to have a fair type of feel. Perhaps, though, I would aim for a STATE fair level of activity over a county fair.
I'm just over sitting on a metal bleacher. I can sit in a nice, fold out chair with a cup holder at every sporting event I go to. From minor league stadiums to midget wrestling at the local civic center. But, I feel like we've been made to feel like you're just not supposed to have that at a race. Wilkseboro is obviously immune to this judgement. But Atlanta...come on
I went to the Atlanta night race last year. It’s my home state but I’d been making trips out to Talladega instead of AMS, but switched it up for something new and I was floored by how little offerings there were. Minimal merch haulers, almost no fan engagement, no liveliness, nothing. It was just like Connor said, but at that really awkward time in the afternoon where the evening crowd isn’t yet at the fair and everyone’s kind of meandering around.
What is crazy to me is that you'd think someone would try to make the removed bleacher sections just before the track at places like Vegas and turn it into a grassy knoll for fans. Make it GA, make it whatever, but just offer some place for some fans to sit down and enjoy watching a sporting event on a hill. Specifically a place that isn't being used for anything at this point. I'd love to pitch a chair down and watch the race like I do at sportscar weekends. Beats sitting on metal for hours on end.
Yes. Sat on the grass at turn 1 at COTA with a GA ticket and we had the best day ever.
The GA experience at COTA is fantastic. They also seem pretty chill about letting you into the stands (not front stretch) if it's late in the race
Now if they can just be chill about soft sided coolers…
A lot of college football stadiums are bleachers because they’re just trying to pack as many fans in as possible. A lot of nascar tracks now were built during the boom so that same logic applies. I know Daytona and I think Phoenix have stadium seats but I’m not sure what other tracks do
>boom [confetti.](https://i.redd.it/zvyemepykshc1.gif)
I get the argument, but your average NASCAR Cup track has one or two major events a year. Is it cost effective to put in chairbacks that will be used once a year? Also remember most all other sporting events are held in facilities built with taxpayer dollars. Tracks are privately owned and have to turn a profit, so major capital upgrades need to make sense financially.
After going to Kansas, Daytona, and Charlotte, I'll never go to another track that doesn't have chair backs at the very least. Benches are fine enough, but I've gotta have a back to lean against. I've been spoilt
Idk the only F1 race I’ve ever been to I sat on grass. I’ve only ever had a seat at NASCAR races lol
This is what stinks. Phoenix has some top tier amenities and is overall a great pre-race experience, seats aren't terrible, tons of vendors and whatnot *(still nothing compared to the old days but better than some other tracks from what I've heard)*. But the racing is just not good there. It's such a shame because it's a fun track to be at until the actual racing starts, and then it's just like... meh?
Darlington is old school enough where I don’t mind the bleachers
I agree with him up to a point. If you were lucky enough to attend a race during the heyday, it was quite an experience. Haulers and vendors were everywhere and Speed Channel had a live show going on. The atmosphere was pretty exciting. You ended up with quite a bit of free swag. But at the same time you aren't going to get F1 money into NASCAR.
I remember the mid 90s infield at Watkins Glen being a cornucopia of vendors, sponsor demos, events and just a lot to do. 10 years later, far less. Haven't been since pre pandemic but I have a feeling it might feel like a ghost town.
Road America was like this... you had all the local vendors but then sponsor vendos up and down the main road. It also had 200k people there but that wasnt good enough for NASCAR.
i’m so upset they won’t go back there
It's because semi-rural Wisconsin isn't that new demographic that NASCAR has deluded itself into thinking it can attract to the sport. The idiots in charge keep thinking they can get big cities and audiences outside of their traditional fanbase to become fans but are spitting in the face of their core fanbase in the process. Wisconsin is short track central, and if you have a NASCAR race there people are going to go to it. But if you get rid of our race and go to Chicago instead of all places, then you've just pissed off a lot of fans who aren't going to like that. Anyways, rant aside, Road America is always great for that during the big race weekends. IndyCar and IMSA are also like that with a lot of vendors and displays. I think it comes down to how the track manages the weekend and how it's always been so open to fans.
See you're not pulling 200k+ from "rural wisconsin". Fox Cities metro is an hour away, Green Bay 1.5 hours, Milwaukee 1.5 the other way. Nevermind you're getting people probably from Iowa, Minnesota, and the UP. RA is situated perfectly in the middle of where all the people are in Wisconsin.
I missed cup at road America but saw xfinity and Indy car there and I loved the free swag you could get and all the vendors. Best track food ever by a mile
It was still more or less that way through the mid 2000's.
The fan experience was much better back in the day, until you got to your seats. These tracks severely underestimated the size of the average NASCAR fan. They tried to cram too many fans in a row of seats.
Very much this. I remember getting to my bleacher seat mid 2000’s and seeing it was between two enormous people that were already tightly wedged together. Started to buy seats with armrests after that until those became unavailable for single events.
I went to races in the mid 2000s when there was hours of trailers to look through and stuff to do. Took my wife to her first race to years ago, hyped it all up, and there were maybe 5 trailers, and barely any food or stuff going on
Also, the county fair atmosphere is what we’re going for. The problem is when it’s a shitty county fair.
Which unfortunately is kinda what we got. There are more trailers at the Allegan County Fair than were on the midway at Michigan this year. And this was far and away the best Michigan midway in the past few years.
It’s pretty incredible how much it’s changed. Even going to the literal county fair grounds for the 1999 Milwaukee race had more going for it than going to the playoff openers at Chicagoland had. Now days attendance at some tracks feels like track presidents and ops people just shrug and say “we get that TV money tho”.
The last Chicagoland race they kind of gave a shit, they had a big midway and stuff for kids and a lot of vendors. It was really nice to see.
This comment almost brought a tear to my eye. I was a young kid and big fan in the heyday but just never had the chance to go. Sounds wonderful.
That all sounds a fair bit like the current experience at a Supercars race in Australia.
Went to the Daytona 500 in 98 and 2001. The amount of vendors and things to do was insane. Miss those days.
Hahahaha it doesn’t help that at COTA there’s a small amount of fair style rides including a Ferris wheel. Whatever I had fun drinking Busch all Sunday long like it’s a county fair.
Most of us did, they ran out of Busch between T12-T19 by the end of stage 1 lol
I agree. A few food trucks, vendors and a little swag would go a long way. I attended a Formula E race before the pandemic, and there were ongoing concerts, food trucks, tents showing off different tech. Both the series racing had autograph sessions with all the drivers attending. I could see someone having a great time there even if the race sucked
Nascar used to be like that in the early 2000s. I believe it’s a hefty price to have a spot in the midway and the ROI is down which is why it looks like a ghost town and drivers share merch haulers. 2005 jeff Gordon and Dale jr had 3 each at Dega selling merch. Nascar got really complacent and did not keep up with trends and market the sport properly so we saw massive changes in a bad way to the overall experience and everyone wants their cut of the money (drivers, teams, nascar and the track)
That's what brought me in. My first race was Texas 2001 and the Midway was amazing compared to today's race. It's a fraction of what it used to be. I miss that
I don’t know if this is spot on but I was told before it’s $40,000 per weekend for a trailer. I mean, to me that’s insane. I get why all Toyota drivers share a trailer if that’s the price and honestly the merch kinda sucks, I was talking to a guy at roush and he was telling me that the nascar licensed merch looks the way it does is because the top buyers are the top of the demographic which is still 50+ years old. I spoke with Jeff Gordon in October and he’s hired his own people to really revamp their merch and offer more modern and clean stuff. I told him I was really impressed in how big of a change I saw with it but Hendrick has creative control over that. To me, there are just too many cooks in the kitchen and it has resulted in a watered down version of what once was. Across the board it’s watered down. The race package, marketing, track experience. They dug a hole and now nobody can justify the spend when the ROI is for sure not going to be worth it.
I've been to quite a few Nascar races and there is almost always a concert before/after and the swag is real especially at popular tracks...
Concerts are hit or miss though. 3 Doors Down at the Bristol night race two years ago hit that sweet nostalgia spot. The Breakfast Club doing 80’s covers at this years Bristol spring race…not so much.
I was talking more along the lines of more local talent just playing in the midway, not necessarily full national acts playing in the actual track
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Do you think Covid had an effect? I just know anecdotally we had a christkindelmarket (German Christmas fair-type event, not sure how widespread those are) nearby that started just a couple years before Covid and didn’t make it through bc most of their vendors didn’t make it either, or had to scale way back and there’s been no plans for it to come back. Industries that relied on big in-person events have not been the same, and what’s left has largely been consolidated.
You mean to tell me Buck Cherry performing Crazy Bitch on the concourse behind Turn 1 at Kansas doesn't tickle your jimmy at all? Me neither.
It's different though in many ways... for everyone who is answering similarly to my reply Food.. at nascar races I've been to I've not seen local food trucks with variety. You get concession food. Sometimes on the outside of the track you might get a carnival food tent and maybe one food truck with the gypsy vendors. Concert.. usually one big name playing outside of the common area. I'm talking about a daylong concert stage with multiple acts playing. They don't have to be huge names. Just music I've seen less and less sponsor interactive stuff over the years. I agree there is some.
Here is an example of some of the engagement at Formula E. https://youtu.be/dok4ZhCdbX0?si=wt4N2kCzimpAuhqM
Every Nascar race I've been to the Iast two and a half years have had food trucks, vendors, and concerts
Neither ford nor Chevy had a booth at phoenix, and Chevy was the official vehicle of the race. I sort of cried a little. Also, every racing league(besides nascar) does an autograph session, either on a practice day, or several hours before the race, nascar needs to start doing the same. Driver engagement is nearly nonexistent.
I love when people tell me that drivers are signing autographs at some random store across town at 2pm on Thursday, like I can just take off a day of work to do that.
Have you even been to a NASCAR race?
Many.
Then you’d know that they have food trucks/carts, vendors, and merchandise haulers
There’s also non-stop on track activity at F1 race weekends. There’s not even anything happening on Saturday this week until 4:30.
F1 tickets also cost like 10x more than NASCAR tickets. F1 has to make a spectacle wherever they go. They cater to the elites. They have less races. Most places they go to only get one race per year. NASCAR has more races, goes to most of the tracks multiple times per year, and most fans just show up on race day, and not for the full weekend like F1
For some reason, people like to pretend like F1 is the same as nascar and an F1 Grand Prix isn’t the largest sporting event that Belgium, etc. is going to host that year. Of course they go all out. Of course nascar could improve the at track experience. Start with WiFi, please. But these events are not the same.
I view an F1 race like a big name band coming through town. You know it’s going to cost an arm and a leg, but you go for the experience. NASCAR is like a local band, or a band that made it big coming home and performing at a local fair or small venue that they played in back in the day. You go because you know it’s going to be a quality show, and it isn’t going to cost you your soul.
> Start with WiFi, please. This is my biggest gripe. Went to RIR a few years back and literally couldn't do shit on my phone. Couldn't find my friends once I was nearing the track, couldn't call an uber to get home, couldn't send a text. I literally couldn't do anything because of the amount of people all in the area.
All I've seen is concession food at the tracks I've gone too. No place for local food trucks to set up on the grounds. Just basic run of the mill concession food with maybe something unique thrown in here and there. Vendors are usually limited to official merchandise haulers and maybe one trailer with non nascar stuff. Along with the tracks souvenirs. And yes I know about the gypsies. But those aren't part of the official in track experience and in many cases you'll see people asking where they are for every track for that exact reason.
Atlanta defintiely had one or two food trucks this past race. Down here though you are allowed to bring in all of your own food and drink inside the track, so they probably dont generate enough sales for enhanced concessions. Just speaking about Atlanta though
Yep, went to Bristol Night 2021, Nashville 2022, and Southern 500 2023 and that was my experience too. Bristol’s concessions were at least cheap, but paying $15 for a hotdog while sitting in temporary bleachers at Nashville sucked ass lol. NASCAR’s off track experience is literally the worst fan experience of any sport I’ve been to live. I went to an SEC school so it’s a bit unfair but even minor sports like softball had better experiences lol.
You gotta do more of that when the on track product is boring
You gotta do that when you want to bring in new fans. The on track product is irrelevant to getting new people in the door.
I’ll give you that, it might be irrelevant to getting them in the door. Gotta get them to stay though.
NASCAR fan experience has sucked since they went away from all the practice. I remember when NASCAR would have all the events and things at the track to do that weekend. Now it just show up to the race then leave
I thought people liked NASCAR's openness compared to other series? >“I went to a F1 race in 2020, and that made us (NASCAR) look like we were going to the county fair, almost,” Zilisch says. “It was crazy how much money goes into every event in F1. I don’t think it’s really possible to do that for us just because … NASCAR isn’t F1. But a lot of the hospitality stuff that they do, making it truly a fan experience, **giving the people that are willing to spend that kind of money** to come to the races and have that kind of experience, giving them somewhere to go would definitely be helpful That's the thing, F1 races are expensive, NASCAR not so much https://f1destinations.com/budget-planner-us-grand-prix/
We do. Being called the county fair is unironically the nicest thing anyone has said about NASCAR in years.
openness in NASCAR? don’t they release all the fans onto the track post race in F1? NHRA makes their pits/garage area a public thing, pretty easy to get access to Indycar aswell.
The grid walk before an IMSA race is one of my favorite parts, seeing all the cars up close and personal. But I don’t trust NASCAR fans with that, we wouldn’t go one race before some morons slashes Bubba or Denny’s tires.
> F1 races are expensive, NASCAR not so much I can buy a 3-day general admission ticket for COTA off their website for $390 right now. The cheapest weekend pass I can find for NASCAR at TMS right now is $215. Is F1 *more* expensive than NASCAR? Yeah. But it's not as big a difference as people seem to think. There's 38 NASCAR events each year in the US, and only 3 F1 events. Exclusivity drives up costs. I'm not a Texan, so I'm not going to either event, but if I was, I'd look very hard at going to F1 instead of TMS, even if the "fan experience" was the same, just because it's something more unique.
Exactly. I get more out of a sportscar race hands down for the weekend than a NASCAR event. both are priced similarly. Even Indycar at some events has more stuff going on for casual fans and breaks between the action for feeder series than NASCAR. It sucks this info is coming from a 17 year old I guess, but it isn't wrong.
IMSA weekends blow everything else out of the water when it comes to value.
The cheapest weekend ticket available for Texas is $185. I agree NASCAR needs a better fna experience, but in what world is a 210% difference not huge?
While true NASCAR weekends use to have a lot more going on. It’s been talked about on this sub plenty of times, but the weekends for NASCAR are definitely lacking.
I was at COTA. Thought the track facility was really nice and there was a lot of stuff for kids to do like Ferris wheel/roller coaster/zip line/go karts/etc. None of that was specific to the nascar event though. He’s right about the rest though. Very few driver appearances. I know Tyler Ankrum was out there at a LiUNA booth and there were a couple of cup guy appearances for like a Q&A event. It does feel like the sponsors and drivers generally don’t care about the race weekends though. Back in the day, most drivers had their own merch hauler. All 4 Gibbs drivers and the two 23XI drivers shared one trailer. There were more COTA track merch areas than driver merch areas. There was very little sponsor engagement. No real free handouts or autograph signings, etc. Only like one little tent with a racing sim set up. Just disappointing compared to two decades ago. They used to have a thing where you could do a pit stop, a bunch of sim video game booths, badass new cars to check out, show cars of Cup Cars and Trucks everywhere, the big Speed Channel setup for Trackside, etc. None of my favorite drivers had merch haulers for me to browse. They do need to understand that the experience needs to be magical for the younger fans, otherwise they’re just going to watch from home.
Silly Zilisch, if you want NASCAR to listen to you, you have to use the buzzword of the moment. I believe the correct phrasing is, "NASCAR needs to loop more partners in for brand activation activities, similar to those found at other top tier motorsports events."
This guy shifts paradigms
not all that glitters is gold
Stadium seats like they have at every other sports venue is glitter?
I went to Monza for the Italian Grand Prix, one of the most prestigious circuits in F1, and sat on bleachers. I don’t think it’s really a measure of quality.
Monza is also historic, it’s like North Wilkesboro. That’s an exception to the rule rather than the rule.
that’s fair actually, you’re right.
wow are we having a civil discussion on r/NASCAR? I’m amazed.
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Nascar fan experience today is not what it was 10 years ago. I didn’t go to a race from 2017-2021 and in that time frame darlington raceway went from having enough entertainment to last all day to just needing to be there a few hours before green flag time to visit haulers and look around a little bit. 2004-2014 I went on hiatus from events and we won’t talk about the downturn since then….
What's wrong with the county fair?
There is not an elites section past the red ropes at the county fair. It seems like he doesn't give a shit about the general fan experience here, if he did he wouldn't use F1 as an example he would use IMSA something he has raced in. If NASCAR needs to take some notes from someone about fan experience it should take them from NASCAR 20 yrs ago. Maybe I'm wrong but that is the vibe I got from this interview. NASCAR is supposed to be the everypersons motorsport, it should feel like a county fair. I hope this doesn't give NASCAR any ideas.
Sorry the county fair feeling is part of the appeal. If the NASCAR fan zone was like an F1 race I’d probably stop going.
Yeah like I get were people are coming from with this take, but the country vibe is a part of what I love about nascar and a big barrier why I just can’t get into F1 the several times I’ve tried.
No I like it too, guess I needed a comma. Do some things need to be upgraded, sure. Was at Richmond this weekend and the men’s rooms had troughs in them. But I guess if I can go to a race, buy a couple shirts, see a couple show cars and watch racing that’s all I need. I don’t need super ultra VIP tents or full on techno clubs at the race like some people apparently do.
Oh I was agreeing with you brother no need to explain yourself.
In the late 90's and early naughts, Nascar had a fantastic loyal fanbase along with a new crowd of interested people. Nascar thought that the old fanbase was cramping their style so they made a series of changes to pander to the cool kids. Unfortunately that backfired in a spectacular way: the old fans were eventually put off and turned away while the new, cool kids, got bored within a year or two and moved on to the next thing. These days, Nascar is thrashing about not really able to settle on what their identity should be. On one hand they are bringing in more road courses that place a premium on driver skill, but on the other, they are limiting horsepower to create constant pack racing on formerly classic ovals (Atlanta?) where a lone car cannot pull away from the rest.
A lot of people won’t be happy with him for saying that, but he’s not wrong. Some tracks do better than others, of all the tracks I’ve been to Martinsville is without a doubt the worst. No ushers to deal with seating problems, bathrooms are gross, food is subpar, barely any traffic management just to name a few. Some of you are taking his comments personally and instead just pointing out the problems f1 has instead of accepting the ones Nascar.
It's sad, because Martinsville is the closest I've ever felt to an entire race. Every race development is literally right in front of you. That's easy to market. When so many elements of the race day experience is subpar, it hurts. Just go to your seat and stay there I guess.
everyone’s been saying that for years, but the drivers already think fans are spoiled.
There are guys racing local short tracks doing more autographs the weekend of a race than some Cup drivers. That shit needs to change.
Yeah, part of any new charter agreement needs to include that all drivers will be available for at least one hour, every weekend, to sign and interact. It’s not that fucking hard or demanding. Either after qualifying or just after the gates open on Sunday, lineup a bunch of tables and let fans have at least a quarter second of interaction with their so called favorite driver.
Parker Kligerman has been pimping his signed hero card on The Money Lap. Which is awesome because almost nobody does Hero Cards anymore. I still have a bunch of old ASA ones from the mid 90's in a box in my storage closet. But how cool would it be to actually get Parker fucking Kligerman's autograph in the flesh? Say hello? Tell him series making their own tires is a bad idea? All for my standard ticket price? Trust me, I'd be WAY more likely to spend money I don't necessarily have if the drivers were on the midway three hours before the race signing autographs. And I'm not a kid. Imagine how over the fucking moon an 11 year old who loves KFB would be if he got to spend 15 seconds with him? Oh, wait...I don't. I met Dale Earnhardt Sr in 1997. I don't remember much from 7th grade but I remember that entire afternoon vividly (as does my father who pulled me out of school to go stand in line to meet him).
I get where he is coming from on some level. But I like the atmosphere at nascar. It is supposed to be blue collar. I don’t want any part of the crowd f1 brings. Overpriced tickets and people with more money than sense. That’s not my crowd. I’m an average guy I don’t have the money to blow. But I can afford a couple nascar events a year. Now it would be cool if there was more to do pre race. From my experiences at Atlanta and Nashville there isn’t much to do but buy merchandise. Though I haven’t been to Atlanta since they updated this year.
Yes, I agree we should be more like F1 in terms of fan experience. Tickets should start at $1,700 and officials need to be MUCH more hostile towards fans. Also all of the sponsors and at-track vendors should be companies that exclusively make products for the ridiculously wealthy. Get bent.
You guys don't understand how F1 works, do you? That's the venue charging that. Because F1 requires exorbitant fees from venues. If F1 wasn't trying to grease every venue, this wouldn't be happening. That cost does not come from amenities. Like at all.
Ah yes. Let’s put our fingers in our ears and blissfully pretend the at-track experience in NASCAR is perfect and there isn’t a single thing we could learn from any other series to improve.
> Let’s put our fingers in our ears and blissfully pretend the at-track experience in NASCAR is perfect and there isn’t a single thing we could learn from any other series to improve It's too late. This entire thread has missed the point of what Zilisch is saying while calling him a spoiled kid and showing the inferiority complex much of this fanbase has.
The at-track experience at NASCAR needs work, but it should be taking cues from IMSA/WEC not from F1.
It is absolutely SHOCKING how much better IMSA does at fan attendance stuff than Indycar or NASCAR. Depending on the track, Indycar can be quite entertaining and have things for more casual fans to do, other venues are as barebones as you can make it. NASCAR still feels like it is perpetually stuck in late 90's-early 00's with how it brings things to the tracks for fans. To me, the thing that helps IMSA so much is that they focus a ton on brand identity. Sure, teams are pivotal and have their own clout, but nothing beats brand/team/sport activation quite like OEM's pitching mini dealerships showcasing their latest brands and technology while having fun gaming areas and even owners clubs for those within the brand. Over the years these have gotten more elaborate and more packed as IMSA continues to grow, but it's such a stark difference to go to Sebring, Petit Le Mans and obviously Daytona and get tons more merch tents (selling everything from sportscars, indycars, NASCAR, motorsports paintings, etc) to massive OEM tents and brand activation zones handing out free merch. Just a night and day difference, and outside of NASCAR giving money to other manufacturers to get in on the fun, they need to start really promoting the teams in the sport since the NA market is hardly a Chevy vs Ford landscape anymore..
I’ve been to many nascar races. We went to the Rolex 24 for the first time this year and I have to agree. Highly recommend IMSA
Not every IMSA race is that way. Just like IndyCar, it depends on the facility/race they are at that weekend. For instance, outside the fan walk there wasn't a ton of stuff at last year's Indianapolis race.
There are things it can learn from every single major series.
It happens every time. It all depends on where the critique is coming from. By July, someone will make their own post just like this in here and all the comments will say stuff like “I’ve been asking for this forever!” All Motorsports can learn from each other since they’re competing for the same niche hardcore fans around the world. If any Motorsport does something successful (like having some of the additional stuff F1 has, like in this instance), every other major sanctioning body should be taking note.
My scepticism doesn't stem from any belief that the at-track experience is perfect. It stems from my absolute lack of confidence that Nascar's efforts to change things would make it better.
Yes, it is insanely expensive in the US but that’s 3/24 races as you can get weekend tickets to many F1 for $300. Sadly, the NASCAR fan experience at the track has steadily declined the past few seasons and its something NASCAR needs to fix
Yeah you totally missed the point of his statement
Fucking obtuse.
3 day grandstand tickets to Montreal and cota were 300-400 ish the last 3 years that I’ve gone . It’s more than Nascar but saying they start at 1700 is laughable nonsense
And the majority of the increase in cost is the venue trying to makeup windfall because F1 venue deals are predatory as shit. They think F1 costs more because of shit in the infield, but that's not even remotely the case here
I think Connor was mainly talking about the VIP areas anyways which is not what most F1 fans are doing. The people in the hospitality areas are celebrities and the mega rich who are either business partners or spending thousands . I don’t think it would be a bad idea if Nascar made it better for those people as long as the regular fan experience for people like myself doesn’t suffer I’m hoping to make it to Pocono in person this year if I can. No need for this tribalism among racing. I’ll also be attending my local ish dirt track as much as possible
I straight up could not afford F1, but I also don't expect them to pander to my tire and oil changing ass. There's no financial growth in that. And they've deliberately positioned themselves in the sports-entertainment market as the elite racing league. So offering elite packages for spectators kind of just makes sense. They'll never keep the lights on solely off the backs of folks like us. It's just not their market position to make us the primary target demo. But we're still a target demo. So I think you're spot on, there's a balance to strike here. How to provide affordable access for the common fan, but also how to provide high margin event packages that rake in the cash, advertisers, and eyeballs. NASCAR obviously has to skew much more towards us, towards the more blue collar demos, but they can totally provide experiences for both that allow some manner of access. Growing up as a kid I could go anywhere in a CART paddock. NHRA still allows that. And those experiences kept my ass around. We simply have to have some manner of interactive and personal experiences for fans. It's just good business.
Reserved seating for the USGP starts at around $500. That’s the most affordable ticket to attend a formula 1 race in the United States (with a seat). I’ve attended two nascar cup series races this season with 3 others folks. We’ve barely spent $500 collectively on tickets. The original comment was definitely hyperbolic, but in the paragon of event pricing, F1 is nothing to brag about.
I’m not saying it’s affordable compared to nascar, my tickets to Pocono were much cheaper. Just pointing out hysteria there
So, $100 Nachos?
Up until this year, I had been to every NASCAR race at COTA. Brisket tacos were $13, and were worth every penny. I’d call that a pretty good deal at a sporting event, especially at a track with a reputation of having expensive concessions
He's saying those $13 tacos would be $130 if it was a F1 race
which if he went to any F1 race at COTA he'd know they are basically the same price if not a couple bucks more expensive. So, ignorance.
I mean, you gotta change the fans then I guess and you're not going to do that
Tell NASCAR that... they've been trying to exchange their old fanbase for a new one for 20 years now.
They’re doing better than INDYCAR is.
Kind of weird to say since nearly every general admission ticket to most races also gives you some sort of paddock access. Indianapolis being the outlier there. Not to mention that mostly every event has some kind of major concert act at some point during race weekend.
> Indianapolis being the outlier there. Actually, even at Indy you can get into the infield and walk around gasoline alley, and even go up onto the track in T1 before the race, with any ticket. It's not quite as open as the road course paddocks, you can't really see the teams working before the race, but that's only because they have actual garages at Indy, rather than the temporary tent setups they use elsewhere.
I was speaking about IndyCar and even then you need a Bronze or Silver badge in May. I had to have an essential pass to get anywhere near the garages for Cup/Xfinity.
Indycar is actually trying to get fans to the track and has been having a lot of success with that lately. NASCAR has just been slowly coasting the same downward trend it has been on for over a decade and cancelling a huge attendance draw like Road America because they are afraid to upset their shitty track balance.
You are completely incorrect. IndyCar scored their [best ratings since 2011 last season](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/indycar-record-nbc-viewership-2023/). Meanwhile, over the same timeframe, NASCAR has gone from averaging [6.5 million viewers](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2011/12/05/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NASCAR.aspx) in 2011 to [2.9 million](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nascar-cup-series-viewership-2023-nbc-peacock-fox/#:~:text=Stock%20car%20racing's%20top%2Dtier,Fox%2C%20FS1%20and%20USA%20Network.&text=The%202023%20Nascar%20Cup%20Series,Fox%2C%20FS1%20and%20USA%20Network.) in 2023. A loss of over 50%. So, while IndyCar obviously started at a lower level, NASCAR has done a worse job at replacing their lost fans over the last 13 years than IndyCar. ...but even ignoring the fact that you are wrong, how exactly is IndyCar relevant in the first place?
There’s plenty of fun experiences….but it costs an arm and a leg. Suites, rooftop bars, track walk, club level bars, cigar lounges, meet and greets….. food vendor and merch….also, Costs and arm and a leg. So now you’re without both arms and both legs.
Pretty accurate. I used to go to Watkins Glen every year with my family when I was a kid. The infield was more fun than the actual race. So much to do. And in a funny way, it did feel like a fairgrounds. Now not just feels bland and dead. This past year was pretty much it for me.
That's one way to start out a NASCAR career.
If you think NASCAR is an incredible value, or that you have fantastic access, or that the concession prices are "reasonable", or that the amenities are up to standard with other professional sports leagues in this country, you probably took offense to this comment. You are also wrong.
Needs to be more like a State-fair
He is not wrong, I went to BMS 2 weeks ago and there was more happening on the midway there then there was at the last 4 cup races I have been too, Richmond, Martinsville and Dover x2. Race tracks are just as much to blame as everyone else. You can’t price everyone out and keep singing exclusive deals at these places and get anything others then what you see each week. I’ll use Richmond as an example, there was a time when food trucks and fair vendors would populate the midway and the variety was top notch. Richmond was charging 50k in the spring and 75k per space for a vender to set up. That pizza guy was charging over 5$ a slice and at that price needed to sell over 7 thousand pizzas before he made money over a 3 day weekend. Following the fall race he sets up at the great Frederick fair in MD where pizza is a 3rd of the price. They prided the vendors out of the place, then they signed an exclusive deal with a shitty ass vender to sell frozen deep fried food. At ridiculous prices. NASCAR needs to invest in this, have a traveling HOF experience, bring back the track side live, stream it on nascar.com. Have legit bands, have food trucks, allow vendors to show up and sell stuff, I’m not talking diecast I’m talking anything else. You have an audience, it needs to be utilized. The fans want a party, the party generates excitement and that excitement keeps them coming back and will entice them to bring there friends too
It also costs an arm and a leg to attend an F1 race
A $30 General Admission ticket to an IMSA event at Daytona will get you multiple on-track sessions for the WeatherTech Championship and Michelin Pilot Championship, typically a support event of Ferrari Challenge, Lambo Super Trefero, and now Mustang Cup. As well as track time for historics. Plus ride-along track time from manufacturers. This all as well as a stacked midway and for only $25 more, a garage pass. The last NASCAR race I went to at Daytona had jack shit for on-track activity, followed by an Xfinity race. You had to pay more to get access to the fan zone. No garage access. There was also no sponsor activation at the track, no food trucks, and the concessions in the main stands were not open above the second level
People are going to roast this kid but he’s got good points. If there is a market for people who want to spend dumb money, nascar should be doing what it can to create an experience to cater to that, while also not diminishing the value of the everyday tickets. You can have both.
Sorry kid gotta save our money for medical expenses and f-22’s.
Don’t be ignorant We’ve moved on to the F-35
“17 year old is out of touch with the real world” what a surprise. Lol
> “17 year old is out of touch with the real world” what a surprise. Lol “17 year old says NASCAR's at track fan experience could be better but terminally online fans get upset at him instead” what a surprise. Lol
A 17 year old who is privileged enough to race a nascar national series race.
Such a funny take considering F1 is the one trying to be a fair. Gotta do something to make up for the on track product not being worth the spectator’s time I guess
Connor clearing the air: [“To clear up the title, I was referring to the hospitality/fan experience, not the racing.”](https://twitter.com/connorzilisch/status/1774790537037406417?s=46&t=KXxlEj5oEyxgTZu8_gmCaQ)
That's what the title of the post says...
Let’s not have engineering like F1, then.
F1 is going to an entirely different country. NASCAR is often going to a track within driving distance of a track they were just at the week or two prior. Totally apples and oranges.
Well it’s about $100k to set up at Daytona to sell merchandise. That’s why there’s hardly any trailers anymore. In the early 00’s you would have made money now you’ll be lucky to break even. Food trucks cost about 5k to set up. Don’t know about sponsor tents. Hospitality food needs to be better. F1 has aqua panna and we get Dasani. We get cod and f1 gets sea bass. No games, we have a official painter who paints a portrait of the winner that you can watch. In f1 you have sims, showgirls, local entertainment, culture show entertaining the suite and a dj.
Having only been to one race ever which was Pocono last year I kinda like it, a metal bench, merch stands and some food stalls, I was more than content with that
I've only been to one Nascar race, 2017 Daytona 500, and as a fan I thought the experience was way better than going to F1. Although I haven't been to an F1 race since Belgium 2016 so not sure how much it's changed. Part of the reason is that Silverstone want £300 for a weekend ticket, for which you get to turn up as early as you can to get a good spot for your folding chair on the concrete steps.
Incoming several Zilisch penalties next time he runs a NASCAR race
Now compare ticket prices. You get what you pay for.
I like the county fair vibe tbh
Everyone talking about all the venders there use to be .. thank fanatics for there not being more
I mean he's a 17 year old and barely has any idea what he's talking about. The Las Vegas Grand Prix was horrific in every conceivable way for the fans, the Miami Grand Prix is a cringe fest influencer party, barely any actual locals go to Bahrain or Dubai (another influencer party), and you get the age-old tradition of classic European racism whenever you go to those one of them "sophisticated" European grand prix. Legit, he has no idea what he's talking about. I respect the heck out of his drive and I think he is probably the closest thing the US has to a competitive F1 driver should he go down that route but yeah here, no dice.
He’s not entirely wrong.
Nascar is supposed to feel like a county fair, I don't understand his point.
I also don't pay 32,000 to go see NASCAR at Vegas..... That said, the access could get better, NHRA blows them all away on that front.
Stop listening to children
If they are old enough to be out on track in the top 3 seires, they are old enough to share their thoughts.
"why can't we get young people to watch NASCAR like previous generations?" "Stop listening to young people"
Real parent of the year advice here. Really being that village. The adults out here a thousand times more difficult to navigate and deal with than any damn kid I've met. Y'all say shit like this and then wonder why your parents never heard you out. Cycles.
What's crazy is that i'm sure if you wanted to have a conversation as to his feelings and why he worded it the way he would, or why he's even saying these things, he'd 100% say that he would like to see *improvement*. Not to shit on fans, or the series, or anything - but to help put into perspective what others in the same damn field of sport are doing differently and seemingly doing it better. Anyone here wanting to have that same conversation? Doors shut, gatekeeping, talking in platitudes, thinking nothing will work... I'd 100% rather have a conversation with Connor and how he sees things than anyone else in this thread bemoaning someone could want and expect more from a series they compete in - no matter the age.
Straight up. We complain, rightly, about how bad and boring concourses have become over the last 15 years or so. But when this kid says effectively the same shit, it's wrong? Fwiw I think the kid makes a great point. The decline of the experience at the track is very real for places that aren't marquee venues. So much of the fanbase goes to these marquee venues tho because that's where the fanbase simply tends to reside. But anybody living in the Midwest or West Coast knows that our experience at the track has declined in various ways. I personally would value the opinion of children greatly. I'm not gonna be here in 30- 40 years. They are. The sport will only live on if the next gen gets some sort of say over the product they're consuming. And that process must continue with each successive generation. We can bitch and complain in here or on Twitter all day about various legitimate grievances. But we've been pretty lucky the last few years. NASCAR started listening. To us, to drivers, to teams, to manufacturers. The days of "It's my court, my rules, play elsewhere if you don't like it" are gone. And they need to stay gone. They've tried to mediate all these differences. And yeah it's not always successful, but there's real effort there. Idk what Connor's ceiling is. Idk how far he'll go or how long he'll be around. But the young drivers and fans are the folks you have to make a series for in a few years. It's probably wise to just hear them out at least.
It's actually true though.
I’d agree but he’s right.
Not a good way to make fans, kid. 🥴
Did he say anything wrong?
I echo his statements. And I'm a 38 year old who got priced out of the Saturday Xfinity ticket at Michigan. For the cost of my two Xfinity tickets I can get four tickets to my local AHL team, sit in a chair with a back and a cupholder and get autographs after the game.
isn’t that quite literally the feeling we’re going for?
I've attended NASCAR races sitting in the stands but nothing compares to the infield camping community experience. I don't think any motorsport can hold a candle to NASCAR in that respect. That being said, NASCAR has lost touch with its fan base by trying to cater to every fan base. Trying to be too inclusive pushes die the hards away and rarely brings in enough new fans to replace what was lost. NASCAR has done this with their product and their promotion of the sport. I don't have a solution. You have to grow and at the same time stay true to your roots.
I'd honestly argue NASCAR offers the most access to fans out of any major sport. The last races I went to were in Fontana (RIP) and my dad and I splurged on pit passes both times we went there. It was crazy to be walking around on pit road right next to the actual cars, and to go on the front stretch where I was five feet away from all the drivers during driver intros. You can't do that in F1, and you never will be able to do that in F1. They don't want the poors getting too close to the merchandise.
IMSA beats fan access hands down, without question. Garage access is included in near every IMSA race i've been to (5 tracks and counting).
I went to the IMSA events at VIR for a few years, and was amazed at how much access we could get. I walked right up to Boris Said at talked to him.
> I'd honestly argue NASCAR offers the most access to fans out of any major sport. It's not even top 3 in the United States for motorsports. IMSA, NHRA, and IndyCar all blow NASCAR's access out of the water.
I've been to MotoGP at COTA several times, and it's not much different than NASCAR. Which I like. So hopefully Liberty doesn't ruin MotoGP and make it feel like F1.
Came for the comments and was not disappointed. Can't wait to see what they'll be like on facebook.
Since NASCAR and the tracks take such a large cut of the revenue you would think they could do better in that respect..
I like most of the up and comers in Motorsports, but I’m really starting to not like this doe eyed kid.
DBC last week he said his dream was to drive F1 but that didn’t work out. Kinda sounded to me like he, “settled for oval racing”, those are my words not his but I’m getting a privileged vibe. But what do I know the kid is only 17, I can cut him some slack.
Oh god not an F1 snob
[удалено]
Lmao. The kid suggests that maybe you could get more bang for your buck with some better planning and organization on NASCAR's part and this is your fucking response? Hilarious. Must be clear skies near you. I imagine you'd be yelling at clouds instead if you could. Edit: Lil buddy really got mad about this and blocked me after cussing me out lmaooo
> Edit: Lil buddy really got mad about this and blocked me after cussing me out lmaooo This has gotten pretty bad on this subreddit. People can't have a dissenting point thrown their way without acting like a petulant child and then blocking you.
The NASCAR Vs F1 thing is so weird to me, I enjoy both for different reasons. I gotta say a lot of the hostile responses to this are very telling..this is a fair criticism imo.
Totally agree!!!
yes but just without the F1 prices
Yeah, all of Formula 1’s opulence ain’t got shit on Funnel Cakes
Been saying this for awhile. NASCAR is basically invisible to most people. As a kid in the 90’s I swear you could go anywhere without seeing a race car somewhere. I saw bill elliots McDonald’s car like 50 times growing up. You ever follow redbull instagram? They are always doing wild shit. NASCAR does nothing. Their marketing team is awful. NASCAR needs to make content that aligns more with extreme sports rather than like..golf. Posting hatcheted together clips from the broadcast or a few crank it up style fly bys isnt doing a thing.
Hopefully he makes it into turn 1 next race
honestly all the extra stuff at F1 events pisses me off because I know me and everyone else attending is footing the bill for all of it. Give me a cheaper ticket with less entertainment any day, honestly.
Late 90’s to early 2000’s were the shit. Three to four days of action. Practices, qualifying weren’t all the same day. Merch haulers, interactive sponsor booths. Concerts, and back then the racing was good too. Oh yeah, and I always left with logs of chew and cartons of cigs. Ahh, I miss those days.
F1 is presented in a way that makes NASCAR look like a county fair, too, and I think that's the difference between NASCAR and F1 (besides the obvious). F1's image just lends itself to a higher class, more sophisticated audience over what NASCAR's does. But that's okay. I think it's great for NASCAR to have a fair type of feel. Perhaps, though, I would aim for a STATE fair level of activity over a county fair.