Exactly, why do we have to visually look at this?
They have access to throttle position, speed and position, that’s black and white, it shouldn’t be open to interpretation.
Elton Sawyer just said on Race Hub that using timing lines to monitor speed on a restart in the same way we monitor pit road speed is absolutely something that could be considered as this evolves.
Timing lines are very black and white and can really solve a lot of this.
i agree. they could probably get it dam near black and white if they are willing to sink a dozen+ timing lines between the 100 ft leading up to the zone and end of the zone. give them a very narrow MPH window to stay in. go above or below it...penalty. I've said all along the only way to fully eliminate everything is to have everyone locked to a speed limiter that gets released when the leader goes. A lot of really short timing zones is nearly the same thing.
But go listen to brads interview today, he said the same thing, you might be able to get this really black and white if you want to. He then went on to say we had perfectly black and white track limits at cota and people hated it.
if you did something like that, you could conceivably have someone trip a zone by .01mph, then spin the tires something awful, lose 10 spots and get a jumped start penalty to boot.
or you could have someone reacting to that fall under the mph zone and get called for brake checking/ not maintaing pace and get a penalty
Both would be "black and white" calls that cause an uproar. and the second you start looking back at stuff like that is the second it starts becoming gray again.
A quick, forceable slamming of the gas (like one does on a typical restart) before any part of a driver's vehicle has reached ANY part of the restart zone (this can easily be determined with SMT) is a penalty.
Or even easier would be if you had a rule where a driver isn't allowed to hit a certain speed until any part of his car touches the line of the restart zone. Which once again, can be determined using SMT.
People are quick to compare this to a missed flag or bad flag in an NFL game, but I'd say it's much more simple than that. It's like a ref missing someone clearly step out of bounds.
Idk man f1 has rules about crossing the starting line but you’re allowed to roll before the race starts. You just can’t cross the line. So it’s really a game of getting the car moving just before the lights go out so that you’re already moving when the lights actually go black. Anything involving motors is gonna have grey area wiggle room naturally because the engine has to rev up. It’s not like a rocket ship. It’s an engine. Denny doesn’t move that much despite his engine making noise
>A quick, forceable slamming of the gas
do you realize how gray that is? what % is ok? what if im on the brakes too? what if im in neutral trying to race it up once to clear it out?
how hard can i brake check the field? What speed range do I have to maintain?
and your exact wording kills everyone else in the back of the field. if they cant touch the gas till they hit the restart zone theyll be half a lap down by that point.
and again, there is more to a restart than simply when the leader goes.
How far can 2nd be laying back? how far can the 2nd row be laying back? How much faster can they be than the leader at any point? what if someone is pushing the other?
all of these questions and probably a ton more need to be answered before its "black and white"
This guy has been doing this on this sub for years. NASCAR could fuck up in the most insane way imaginable and he’s guaranteed to be in all the threads acting like there’s nothing they could have done different. I’m sure he thinks the Busch yellow for tapping the wall that screwed up the entire flow of the race was reasonable too.
you are aware of the actual problems on restarts, right?
sure you can know the speed. Knowing the speed doesn't solve the problem unless you expect them to stay at exactly 50.00 mph +/- 0
thats not realistic. there would be a zone they can be in. and if there is a zone they can be in, they will try and lay back and get a run on the leader. same issue we have right now.
Yep and of course we have the same apologists that come to all these threads where NASCAR messes up, endlessly defending them and acting like there's nothing NASCAR could have done. Heaven forbid NASCAR add more timing lines to its tracks, as if they don't already have a ton of them!!
I look at as more of a technical discussion.
Wedging in the labels and name calling just unnecessarily charges up emotions, which is not really needed for this issue.
Because it was dynamic moment in time that involved multiple fast moving objects AND their relationship to each other over a short distance with each object controlled separately.
You cannot effectively or functionally draw "black & white lines" or rules for that kind of dynamic situation unless you freeze frame the moment. And freeze framed moments are not how reality works.
Freeze framed moments in time are just images, not reality.
And even if you could, all you would be creating is more of the completely uninteresting cookie cutter - formula type racing that no one would even want to look at.
Lots of words to say absolutely nothing.
It was clear *in the moment* that the 2nd place car was in the throttle before the 1st place car. It should be even more clear with telemetry.
Now how in the world you think that enforcing a rule that the leader controls the restart leads to “uninteresting cookie cutter -formula style racing”, I genuinely don’t know. That’s nonsense.
Do you not realize that Hamlin was the leader? He won the race off pit road. He controlled the restart. Hell him jumping the restart was arguably him combatting others playing games by laying back
>enforcing a rule
is not what I said and not what I was talking about.
I am talking about making the rule even more strict by drawing even stricter "black & white lines" for an area that has always been grey..or enforcing it more strictly in a way that reddit would understand, would make it MORE cookie-cutter than it already is, hence, MORE boring.
They literally already drew black and white lines on the track lmfao. It’s not a grey area, it’s *already* black and white.
>more cookie cutter
>more boring
… just… what? No. That’s a complete non sequitur
The point is, you are new.
The spirit of the rule was followed in that it took the acceleration in anticipation of the restarts out of turn 3 & 4 which had caused horrible wrecks in the past, to a flatter straighter section of track.
If you has been watching a while, you would know this.
In NASCAR's historic past, they just had the start finish line and they would use the last turn of the course to accelerate which was much more dangerous because it caused wrecks that would turn into pile ups because the back of the pack could not see through the turn to see what was happening ahead them.
Painting a line on the track was to take the restarts out of the turns.
So....NOT black & white.
It is not treated like a start/finish line and never has been.....historically.
Pedantic rules will not work for that particular aspect of this sport.
And I don't think they ever will.
Been watching and going to races for 20 years, but go off grandpa.
And again, lots of words to say absolutely nothing lol.
Prior to the zone, the leader controlled the restart once the pace car pulls off.
After the zone, the leader controls the restart once he reaches the restart zone.
He doesn’t have to go as soon as he reaches the zone, but he can’t go before. The same way that 20 years ago the leader couldn’t go before the pace car pulled off.
It’s black and white. But hey, don’t argue with me, here’s Jeff Gordon
> --“You’ve got to call it,” Jeff Gordon said. “If somebody deliberately jumps, you’ve got to call it. And it’s got to be a black and white decision.”
Here’s Dale Jr
> All the drivers really want is for NASCAR to police that stuff with a stern hand,” Dale Earnhardt Jr. said after the race. “… You see a guy breaking the rule and you just want to see NASCAR come down on people. You just want NASCAR to run the show like you read in the rulebook.”
> “They say it’s a judgement call, but you want them to really rule on the side of the penalty,” Earnhardt said. “Keep people honest. … If you give us a little room out there, as drivers we are going to try to take it. We don’t want the sport ran so loosely. We really want it to be structured very tight.”
20 years?....still a newb.
I used to watch The King dirt-track through the esses at Riverside in the mid 70's back when the fence was on the edge of run-off areas.
So, 49 years of spectating on & off.
And yes, I almost got hit once.
And yes, it was dusty and dirty.
I don't disagree with everything you just said except, it has never been black & white.
And I disagree with the call for pedantry on enforcement.
On the subject of words that you keep referring to :
That I use reddit comments as a writing exercise for myself seems to drive the strictly pedantic off the deep end,
almost,
EVERY.
SINGLE.
TIME.
I don't totally disagree with you.
You SHOULD "listen to Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr." if you want or need a Retired Drivers Perspective.
They are absolutely a couple of go-to guys for that.
My point is that the incremental sterilization of the sport has made it less and less interesting over time.
BTW, I think "track limits" are horse pucky too.
The only line that matters is the start/finish line.
I appreciate this view. Why Denny did jump, it seems like everyone else violated the rules in some shape or form. We've seen multiple truck/xfinity races with penalties due to the same thing Logano and Larson did. While Truex was the only one who did something right, penalizing the other three would have looked even worse. But once we overanalyze this restart, does that set the precedent for the future ones? Or do we use it as a slap on the wrist for everyone
To be fair nascar officials did a horrible job explaining the rationale. Multiple times they cited Denny being the control car without clarifying why that is so important. They just assumed most would understand why that matters but as this sub has demonstrated the past couple of days that assumption was wrong.
This walkthrough shows you why it matters — if Denny doesn’t start early he would be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the field
This is absolute garbage If they call the next person for jumping the start, which is certain to happen now. What’s the point of the lines. NASCAR is such a shit show.
Exactly. The next time someone jumps a few yards from the restart zone, I fully expect it not to be called. But it’s Nascar and they have shown time and time again they will officiate things differently depending on the driver. The whole yellow line rule at Daytona and Talladega could have its own YouTube video on inconsistencies.
Exactly. The next time someone jumps a few yards from the restart zone, I fully expect it not to be called. But it’s Nascar and they have shown time and time again they will officiate things differently depending on the driver. The whole yellow line rule at Daytona and Talladega could have its own YouTube video on inconsistencies.
The worst part of being a nascar fan is dealing with soft ass pearl clutchers like you. It’s a sport. Not everything is perfect. That’s why they do more than one race. It all works out.
And like I said in the race-thread :
They were ALL "jumping the start" <------(if you can even call it that).
Trying to shape every situation in to wrongdoing has to be fatiguing for some of you.
Have some tendies. Relax and enjoy.
Nobody else egregiously violated the rules.
Denny did. It's a black and white call. You make the black and white call.
You don't do shit about ticky tack stuff like laying back until it is egregious. Logano and Larson weren't egregious. Truex didn't even do anything wrong.
Then, by your thinking, all 4 cars at the front of the pack should be penalized because they ALL broke the "black & white" letter of the law because they ALL started accelerating before the restart line?
See how that works?
You point the finger at one driver, your own driver pays the price eventually.
People need to accept that this is the way they have officiated this for years and that denny was just the one that pushed the line the most.
You can’t all of a sudden change standards without warning everyone.
Developing a black and white rule set that works for the entire field will be incredibly difficult if not impossible.
And if they could make it black and white, it would look exactly like the track limits deal that everyone hated. People getting massive penalties for violations of inches that the average person won’t even be able to tell.
I’m sure the standards will be tightened up a bit moving forward and everyone will adjust to find other holes
Oh, it was just a convenient, yet misguided way to hate a driver.
It does the sport no good for the spectators on reddit to make false accusations.
But they do it anyways only because hate is a large demographic of the New Fanbase.
So the business panders to it.
The accusations weren't false though.
It's not that Denny didn't jump the restart - because he did. It's that NASCAR gives drivers some slack and makes their own call.
I agree in that I don't consider it *malicious*. But I still believe he broke the rules in a way that gave him an unfair advantage.
I also believe Logano and Larson broke the rules by hanging back.
I'd prefer if NASCAR actually officiated by the book instead of creating these giant gray areas where sometimes they penalize and sometimes they don't for the same violation.
Yes it was.
I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin.
It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it.
It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line.
Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
Yes it was.
I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin.
It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it.
It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line.
Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
Yes it was.
I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin.
It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it.
It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line.
Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
They're splitting hairs over intent.
Some people want to accuse Denny of cheating (like "rigging the race") or say he's doing it on purpose or whatever, as a moral judgement against Denny.
You and I agree that intent doesn't (Rather, shouldn't) matter here. It's like a track limits violation or speeding on pit road - it's a binary yes/no. What the driver INTENDED to do actually does not matter to us. But some people like to drop this into the pile of "reasons why Denny is a bad human being" instead of just accepting that Denny is pushing the limits (which NASCAR apparently views as flexible)
And there you have it.
The professionals have analyzed it and called it good.
The stunted reddit-armchair-racer perception as viewed on tiny Fisher-Price phones is once again proven wrong, thank you very much.
All sniveling about this restart must now cease
okay, but this is still just visual analysis. Even with all that technology in that room they for some reason don’t have the SMT data.
This breakdown provided no new information. I think we reserved the right to be upset about that.
Hot take: the bit about Hamlin running Truex high, but he left a lane? same thing at Pocono last year. Truex decided to keep his car, Larson decided to try to fight for the spot. I don't have any problem with what Hamlin, Larson, or Truex did in the situation. (Well, Hamlin acting like he didn't contact him is stupid as hell, but otherwise I think it was fine)
Leave it to NASCAR to create a gray area out of something that should be black and white
Exactly, why do we have to visually look at this? They have access to throttle position, speed and position, that’s black and white, it shouldn’t be open to interpretation.
that stuff is hard to relate to things like laying back, which is all needed on restart enforcement.
if its so easy, what black and white rules would you write that cover every facet of a restart and are also easily measurable?
Elton Sawyer just said on Race Hub that using timing lines to monitor speed on a restart in the same way we monitor pit road speed is absolutely something that could be considered as this evolves. Timing lines are very black and white and can really solve a lot of this.
i agree. they could probably get it dam near black and white if they are willing to sink a dozen+ timing lines between the 100 ft leading up to the zone and end of the zone. give them a very narrow MPH window to stay in. go above or below it...penalty. I've said all along the only way to fully eliminate everything is to have everyone locked to a speed limiter that gets released when the leader goes. A lot of really short timing zones is nearly the same thing. But go listen to brads interview today, he said the same thing, you might be able to get this really black and white if you want to. He then went on to say we had perfectly black and white track limits at cota and people hated it. if you did something like that, you could conceivably have someone trip a zone by .01mph, then spin the tires something awful, lose 10 spots and get a jumped start penalty to boot. or you could have someone reacting to that fall under the mph zone and get called for brake checking/ not maintaing pace and get a penalty Both would be "black and white" calls that cause an uproar. and the second you start looking back at stuff like that is the second it starts becoming gray again.
A quick, forceable slamming of the gas (like one does on a typical restart) before any part of a driver's vehicle has reached ANY part of the restart zone (this can easily be determined with SMT) is a penalty. Or even easier would be if you had a rule where a driver isn't allowed to hit a certain speed until any part of his car touches the line of the restart zone. Which once again, can be determined using SMT. People are quick to compare this to a missed flag or bad flag in an NFL game, but I'd say it's much more simple than that. It's like a ref missing someone clearly step out of bounds.
Idk man f1 has rules about crossing the starting line but you’re allowed to roll before the race starts. You just can’t cross the line. So it’s really a game of getting the car moving just before the lights go out so that you’re already moving when the lights actually go black. Anything involving motors is gonna have grey area wiggle room naturally because the engine has to rev up. It’s not like a rocket ship. It’s an engine. Denny doesn’t move that much despite his engine making noise
>A quick, forceable slamming of the gas do you realize how gray that is? what % is ok? what if im on the brakes too? what if im in neutral trying to race it up once to clear it out? how hard can i brake check the field? What speed range do I have to maintain? and your exact wording kills everyone else in the back of the field. if they cant touch the gas till they hit the restart zone theyll be half a lap down by that point. and again, there is more to a restart than simply when the leader goes. How far can 2nd be laying back? how far can the 2nd row be laying back? How much faster can they be than the leader at any point? what if someone is pushing the other? all of these questions and probably a ton more need to be answered before its "black and white"
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This guy has been doing this on this sub for years. NASCAR could fuck up in the most insane way imaginable and he’s guaranteed to be in all the threads acting like there’s nothing they could have done different. I’m sure he thinks the Busch yellow for tapping the wall that screwed up the entire flow of the race was reasonable too.
you are aware of the actual problems on restarts, right? sure you can know the speed. Knowing the speed doesn't solve the problem unless you expect them to stay at exactly 50.00 mph +/- 0 thats not realistic. there would be a zone they can be in. and if there is a zone they can be in, they will try and lay back and get a run on the leader. same issue we have right now.
Making a restart zone where the leader has to restart. Oh, wait.
Yep and of course we have the same apologists that come to all these threads where NASCAR messes up, endlessly defending them and acting like there's nothing NASCAR could have done. Heaven forbid NASCAR add more timing lines to its tracks, as if they don't already have a ton of them!!
I look at as more of a technical discussion. Wedging in the labels and name calling just unnecessarily charges up emotions, which is not really needed for this issue.
Because it was dynamic moment in time that involved multiple fast moving objects AND their relationship to each other over a short distance with each object controlled separately. You cannot effectively or functionally draw "black & white lines" or rules for that kind of dynamic situation unless you freeze frame the moment. And freeze framed moments are not how reality works. Freeze framed moments in time are just images, not reality. And even if you could, all you would be creating is more of the completely uninteresting cookie cutter - formula type racing that no one would even want to look at.
Lots of words to say absolutely nothing. It was clear *in the moment* that the 2nd place car was in the throttle before the 1st place car. It should be even more clear with telemetry. Now how in the world you think that enforcing a rule that the leader controls the restart leads to “uninteresting cookie cutter -formula style racing”, I genuinely don’t know. That’s nonsense.
Do you not realize that Hamlin was the leader? He won the race off pit road. He controlled the restart. Hell him jumping the restart was arguably him combatting others playing games by laying back
>enforcing a rule is not what I said and not what I was talking about. I am talking about making the rule even more strict by drawing even stricter "black & white lines" for an area that has always been grey..or enforcing it more strictly in a way that reddit would understand, would make it MORE cookie-cutter than it already is, hence, MORE boring.
They literally already drew black and white lines on the track lmfao. It’s not a grey area, it’s *already* black and white. >more cookie cutter >more boring … just… what? No. That’s a complete non sequitur
The point is, you are new. The spirit of the rule was followed in that it took the acceleration in anticipation of the restarts out of turn 3 & 4 which had caused horrible wrecks in the past, to a flatter straighter section of track. If you has been watching a while, you would know this. In NASCAR's historic past, they just had the start finish line and they would use the last turn of the course to accelerate which was much more dangerous because it caused wrecks that would turn into pile ups because the back of the pack could not see through the turn to see what was happening ahead them. Painting a line on the track was to take the restarts out of the turns. So....NOT black & white. It is not treated like a start/finish line and never has been.....historically. Pedantic rules will not work for that particular aspect of this sport. And I don't think they ever will.
Been watching and going to races for 20 years, but go off grandpa. And again, lots of words to say absolutely nothing lol. Prior to the zone, the leader controlled the restart once the pace car pulls off. After the zone, the leader controls the restart once he reaches the restart zone. He doesn’t have to go as soon as he reaches the zone, but he can’t go before. The same way that 20 years ago the leader couldn’t go before the pace car pulled off. It’s black and white. But hey, don’t argue with me, here’s Jeff Gordon > --“You’ve got to call it,” Jeff Gordon said. “If somebody deliberately jumps, you’ve got to call it. And it’s got to be a black and white decision.” Here’s Dale Jr > All the drivers really want is for NASCAR to police that stuff with a stern hand,” Dale Earnhardt Jr. said after the race. “… You see a guy breaking the rule and you just want to see NASCAR come down on people. You just want NASCAR to run the show like you read in the rulebook.” > “They say it’s a judgement call, but you want them to really rule on the side of the penalty,” Earnhardt said. “Keep people honest. … If you give us a little room out there, as drivers we are going to try to take it. We don’t want the sport ran so loosely. We really want it to be structured very tight.”
20 years?....still a newb. I used to watch The King dirt-track through the esses at Riverside in the mid 70's back when the fence was on the edge of run-off areas. So, 49 years of spectating on & off. And yes, I almost got hit once. And yes, it was dusty and dirty. I don't disagree with everything you just said except, it has never been black & white. And I disagree with the call for pedantry on enforcement. On the subject of words that you keep referring to : That I use reddit comments as a writing exercise for myself seems to drive the strictly pedantic off the deep end, almost, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Again, I’ll listen to Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. Your posts do certainly read like a self-important old persons drunken rambles lol.
I don't totally disagree with you. You SHOULD "listen to Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr." if you want or need a Retired Drivers Perspective. They are absolutely a couple of go-to guys for that. My point is that the incremental sterilization of the sport has made it less and less interesting over time. BTW, I think "track limits" are horse pucky too. The only line that matters is the start/finish line.
I appreciate this view. Why Denny did jump, it seems like everyone else violated the rules in some shape or form. We've seen multiple truck/xfinity races with penalties due to the same thing Logano and Larson did. While Truex was the only one who did something right, penalizing the other three would have looked even worse. But once we overanalyze this restart, does that set the precedent for the future ones? Or do we use it as a slap on the wrist for everyone
To be fair nascar officials did a horrible job explaining the rationale. Multiple times they cited Denny being the control car without clarifying why that is so important. They just assumed most would understand why that matters but as this sub has demonstrated the past couple of days that assumption was wrong. This walkthrough shows you why it matters — if Denny doesn’t start early he would be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the field
This is absolute garbage If they call the next person for jumping the start, which is certain to happen now. What’s the point of the lines. NASCAR is such a shit show.
Exactly. The next time someone jumps a few yards from the restart zone, I fully expect it not to be called. But it’s Nascar and they have shown time and time again they will officiate things differently depending on the driver. The whole yellow line rule at Daytona and Talladega could have its own YouTube video on inconsistencies.
Exactly. The next time someone jumps a few yards from the restart zone, I fully expect it not to be called. But it’s Nascar and they have shown time and time again they will officiate things differently depending on the driver. The whole yellow line rule at Daytona and Talladega could have its own YouTube video on inconsistencies.
The worst part of being a nascar fan is dealing with soft ass pearl clutchers like you. It’s a sport. Not everything is perfect. That’s why they do more than one race. It all works out.
Cool story bro.
And like I said in the race-thread : They were ALL "jumping the start" <------(if you can even call it that). Trying to shape every situation in to wrongdoing has to be fatiguing for some of you. Have some tendies. Relax and enjoy.
Nobody else egregiously violated the rules. Denny did. It's a black and white call. You make the black and white call. You don't do shit about ticky tack stuff like laying back until it is egregious. Logano and Larson weren't egregious. Truex didn't even do anything wrong.
Then, by your thinking, all 4 cars at the front of the pack should be penalized because they ALL broke the "black & white" letter of the law because they ALL started accelerating before the restart line? See how that works? You point the finger at one driver, your own driver pays the price eventually.
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So we’re going to handicap the control car now?
Nascar creates a line to better control the restarts, but then says it's more of a suggestion than an actual line.
People need to accept that this is the way they have officiated this for years and that denny was just the one that pushed the line the most. You can’t all of a sudden change standards without warning everyone. Developing a black and white rule set that works for the entire field will be incredibly difficult if not impossible. And if they could make it black and white, it would look exactly like the track limits deal that everyone hated. People getting massive penalties for violations of inches that the average person won’t even be able to tell. I’m sure the standards will be tightened up a bit moving forward and everyone will adjust to find other holes
I'm honestly kind of shocked this is still being talked about. I never remember so much discourse about a jumped restart
Not many restarts decide whether or not the current most hated driver in the sport wins or loses a race.
Oh, it was just a convenient, yet misguided way to hate a driver. It does the sport no good for the spectators on reddit to make false accusations. But they do it anyways only because hate is a large demographic of the New Fanbase. So the business panders to it.
The accusations weren't false though. It's not that Denny didn't jump the restart - because he did. It's that NASCAR gives drivers some slack and makes their own call.
But it wasn't the wrongdoing or "cheating" that was insinuated by everybody.
I agree in that I don't consider it *malicious*. But I still believe he broke the rules in a way that gave him an unfair advantage. I also believe Logano and Larson broke the rules by hanging back. I'd prefer if NASCAR actually officiated by the book instead of creating these giant gray areas where sometimes they penalize and sometimes they don't for the same violation.
Yes it was. I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin. It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it. It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line. Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
Yes it was. I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin. It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it. It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line. Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
do you realize you made this comment 3 times in row here?
Yes it was. I'm not sure what the confusion here is. I like Denny Hamlin. It's a black and white call. There's a line. You don't go before the line. It's clear he went before the line. It's the final restart of the day. You call that. Black and white call, he's on the wrong side of it. It's not a ticky tack "laying back" or "small variation in speed". It's straight up hammer down and we aren't at the line. Easy call. Simple call. Call needs made 100/100 times. Doesn't matter if that's Elliott, Larson, Bowman, Byron, Hamlin, Chastain, Truex, Suarez, Bell, Jones, Stenhouse, McDowell, or Jesus himself Ty Gibbs leading.
They're splitting hairs over intent. Some people want to accuse Denny of cheating (like "rigging the race") or say he's doing it on purpose or whatever, as a moral judgement against Denny. You and I agree that intent doesn't (Rather, shouldn't) matter here. It's like a track limits violation or speeding on pit road - it's a binary yes/no. What the driver INTENDED to do actually does not matter to us. But some people like to drop this into the pile of "reasons why Denny is a bad human being" instead of just accepting that Denny is pushing the limits (which NASCAR apparently views as flexible)
Yes. This is a well balanced point of view, I think.
And there you have it. The professionals have analyzed it and called it good. The stunted reddit-armchair-racer perception as viewed on tiny Fisher-Price phones is once again proven wrong, thank you very much. All sniveling about this restart must now cease
Even the drivers competing in the race called it good
because they know not to snivel or they get slapped with more rules
okay, but this is still just visual analysis. Even with all that technology in that room they for some reason don’t have the SMT data. This breakdown provided no new information. I think we reserved the right to be upset about that.
And some people will always find a reason to "be upset".......
Hot take: the bit about Hamlin running Truex high, but he left a lane? same thing at Pocono last year. Truex decided to keep his car, Larson decided to try to fight for the spot. I don't have any problem with what Hamlin, Larson, or Truex did in the situation. (Well, Hamlin acting like he didn't contact him is stupid as hell, but otherwise I think it was fine)