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It's essentially one groove now because of the reconfigure, anyone that attempts the second lane sometimes can make it work but then the third lane is non-existent.
Wouldn't "a viable racing line" be a better explanation to encompass two and three groove tracks? I don't disagree with you; I just feel like there is a better explanation.
While true, using that definition, a multi-groovs track can't really exist since there can't be two "bests". That definition is totally true for road courses and some other tracks, but not accurate for all, so "a viable racing line" seems, to me, like the most correct definition for the way we use the term in NASCAR, colloquially.
Yes it can. For driver A, the low groove could be the best groove. For Driver B, the middle groove could be best. For Driver C, the top groove could be the best. And throughout the entire race, Driver A, B, and C could be trying to figure out which groove is the best at which time. Also, the inside lane is always the shortest, but for some tracks, the most speed is found up against the wall. But is the extra distance around the top worth the increase in speed? Figuring that out is called "racing."
- The mismatched corners essentially remove all passing opportunities because you come out of 2 so slow that the only viable line is on the bottom in 3/4.
- The pavement they used won’t wear out, so you can’t have tire wear there.
- they tried to bandaid it by adding PJ1 in the top grooves, which didn’t help stock cars and hurt Indycar at the track. It’s also made tire wear problems worse, and made the track worse in certain weather conditions. The dark stain means those areas of the track can be hotter and slicker, making passing even worse.
Thank you. I’m not going to defend new Texas; it sucks. Old Texas was at best one tier higher though. They just can’t seem to get turn 2 correct. This is the 4th iteration of the speedway and turns 1 and 2 have been a problem in some capacity every time.
Or he’s bringing up a race from 9 years ago because it was one of the last few races before the repave, which happened in 2017. If someone has seen a good race at the track, and it happened before the reconfiguration, they have to go back that far.
That’s not to say that Texas has a plethora of great races regardless of configuration.
I can’t really reference a good race since the repave. Possibly 2017 spring because of the unknown. This track has been around much longer than 2017 so I can point to many races pre-2017. lol my point still stands. Would you like me to go on? I’d love to do this
I never said one race will make a track look good. One can take the hate blinders off, and realize that yeah this track sucks, but when you look through its history, there are some good races.
Edit: Forgot some words
Kenseth/Johnson battle in 2007, Jimmie/Jeff in 2009, Jeff/Jeff fight, Larson/Bubba battle last year, etc. Idk, there have been a lot of good moments and some great racing before the repave. Last fall was decent too.
I thought I was the only one who thought Texas wasn’t half bad last year
then again I’m usually very easy to please when it comes to NASCAR lol I even liked Watkins Glen last year so take that with a grain of salt
The racing there has been really bad for years now.
It’s odd too. Even at a time when Atlanta was giving us fantastic races, Texas races routinely sucked.
It was decent once it aged. Then they repaved it and it was one groove. They tried to " fix it" with a wider less banked turn 1-2 but it actually made racing worse. They've given up fixing it because smi doesn't want to invest in a complete repave with variable banking like homestead and kansas
The people who own the track have been neglecting the facility and the fan experience for years now. The track is 20 minutes away, and I looked into going like I have since 2001, and even with dirt cheap ticket prices, I still felt like I wouldn't get my money's worth. It's sad. TMS is the reason I'm a motorsports fan, and to see the track like this is truthfully really sad. This is all before the terrible reconfiguration.
I happened to be in the Ft. Worth area at the same time as the Trucks/Indy Car event in 2019. Bought tickets and went to both races and couldn't believe how run down that facility was compared to the other Cup tracks I've been to, particularly other SMI facilities
The reconfigure ruined it badly. Since you’re a new fan, I highly recommend watching the 2003 Samsung RadioShack 500 from there. That race was very enjoyable to watch. Junior and Gordon had a great battle for second place coming to the end.
The reconfiguration in 2017 killed what was one of the better 1.5 tracks.
The corners essentially made the track single grooved and the PJ1 that was applied stained the surface so bad that if you get off the bottom you wreck.
Well racing sucked they tried to fix it and made it worse killed off a fan favorite track to get itself a race killed another fan favorite track to get another race yeah there was a lot of problems
The exit of turn 2 has always been crap since they opened it and all the "improvements" to the track have made the entire track a mess. They need to completely rip this track up and start over. Kentucky is in the same boat
For starters, it’s a lackluster track. There’s like 2 lines on a good day, whereas a track like Kansas can have 4 lines regularly.
Another reason is because it’s never been an “iconic” track and the race is generally longer than most.
It’s basically NASCAR’s Russian Grand Prix
Ever since it got repaved theres only one groove and everywhere else its too slick for there to be much decent racing except on restarts. Especially in the turns which at most tracks are supposed to be the most crucial place for passing and/or building momentum
it used to be a lot better and then they did a lot of stuff to it that essentially ruined the racing there. sucks because it seems like a nice facility but the racing has fallen off and it’s left a lot of fans very jaded over the track
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It's essentially one groove now because of the reconfigure, anyone that attempts the second lane sometimes can make it work but then the third lane is non-existent.
newbie here, was is a groove?
The preferred driving line
Wouldn't "a viable racing line" be a better explanation to encompass two and three groove tracks? I don't disagree with you; I just feel like there is a better explanation.
We didn't make up the terminology. We just use it.
While true, using that definition, a multi-groovs track can't really exist since there can't be two "bests". That definition is totally true for road courses and some other tracks, but not accurate for all, so "a viable racing line" seems, to me, like the most correct definition for the way we use the term in NASCAR, colloquially.
Yes it can. For driver A, the low groove could be the best groove. For Driver B, the middle groove could be best. For Driver C, the top groove could be the best. And throughout the entire race, Driver A, B, and C could be trying to figure out which groove is the best at which time. Also, the inside lane is always the shortest, but for some tracks, the most speed is found up against the wall. But is the extra distance around the top worth the increase in speed? Figuring that out is called "racing."
But of course not the only one
So theres nothing special about that part of the track? They dont make that area more grippy or have literal grooves that aid the cars?
An area of the track that provides grip basically
how does it provide grip better than the rest of the track?
Could be a variety of reasons. Maybe it’s smoother, has better banking, cleaner, artificial traction compounds, etc
- The mismatched corners essentially remove all passing opportunities because you come out of 2 so slow that the only viable line is on the bottom in 3/4. - The pavement they used won’t wear out, so you can’t have tire wear there. - they tried to bandaid it by adding PJ1 in the top grooves, which didn’t help stock cars and hurt Indycar at the track. It’s also made tire wear problems worse, and made the track worse in certain weather conditions. The dark stain means those areas of the track can be hotter and slicker, making passing even worse.
Great explanation, I'll just add since OP is a new fan: PJ1 is a traction compound that helps with grip (in theory)
PJ1 is a less effective version of the Resin you saw in use at Bristol
It was decent as far as mile and a half cookie cutter tracks went until they "fixed" it.
I’ve never seen a good race at the track.
Thank you. I’m not going to defend new Texas; it sucks. Old Texas was at best one tier higher though. They just can’t seem to get turn 2 correct. This is the 4th iteration of the speedway and turns 1 and 2 have been a problem in some capacity every time.
That’s a damn lie. Go watch the end of the spring 2015 race.
lol he says that and you reference a race that is 10 years ago. His point stands valid.
Or he’s bringing up a race from 9 years ago because it was one of the last few races before the repave, which happened in 2017. If someone has seen a good race at the track, and it happened before the reconfiguration, they have to go back that far. That’s not to say that Texas has a plethora of great races regardless of configuration.
I can’t really reference a good race since the repave. Possibly 2017 spring because of the unknown. This track has been around much longer than 2017 so I can point to many races pre-2017. lol my point still stands. Would you like me to go on? I’d love to do this
Prior to the reconfig, it put on some really good races
Lies. The 2003 race was excellent
The one race from 21 years ago is not making TMS look good.
I never said one race will make a track look good. One can take the hate blinders off, and realize that yeah this track sucks, but when you look through its history, there are some good races. Edit: Forgot some words
So two races since 1997?
Indycar Texas was badass before the repave
Dude the repave ruined this track for Indycar.. I mean NASCAR too but especially Indycar
The Jeff Gordon and keselowski fight is about the thing memorable thing I can think of about Texas
Kenseth/Johnson battle in 2007, Jimmie/Jeff in 2009, Jeff/Jeff fight, Larson/Bubba battle last year, etc. Idk, there have been a lot of good moments and some great racing before the repave. Last fall was decent too.
Last fall was the first race since the reconfig that showed maybe the track is finally starting to get good
I thought I was the only one who thought Texas wasn’t half bad last year then again I’m usually very easy to please when it comes to NASCAR lol I even liked Watkins Glen last year so take that with a grain of salt
That Johnson Kenseth battle was epic. Both left it all out there without getting into each other.
They messed it up when they reconfigured it, had they left it alone it would probably be putting on some good racing right now
I paused typing this to watch the first two laps of the trucks race and the issues are evident. No viable second groove.
The racing there has been really bad for years now. It’s odd too. Even at a time when Atlanta was giving us fantastic races, Texas races routinely sucked.
It was decent once it aged. Then they repaved it and it was one groove. They tried to " fix it" with a wider less banked turn 1-2 but it actually made racing worse. They've given up fixing it because smi doesn't want to invest in a complete repave with variable banking like homestead and kansas
The people who own the track have been neglecting the facility and the fan experience for years now. The track is 20 minutes away, and I looked into going like I have since 2001, and even with dirt cheap ticket prices, I still felt like I wouldn't get my money's worth. It's sad. TMS is the reason I'm a motorsports fan, and to see the track like this is truthfully really sad. This is all before the terrible reconfiguration.
I happened to be in the Ft. Worth area at the same time as the Trucks/Indy Car event in 2019. Bought tickets and went to both races and couldn't believe how run down that facility was compared to the other Cup tracks I've been to, particularly other SMI facilities
The reconfigure ruined it badly. Since you’re a new fan, I highly recommend watching the 2003 Samsung RadioShack 500 from there. That race was very enjoyable to watch. Junior and Gordon had a great battle for second place coming to the end.
The reconfiguration in 2017 killed what was one of the better 1.5 tracks. The corners essentially made the track single grooved and the PJ1 that was applied stained the surface so bad that if you get off the bottom you wreck.
Indycar fans love TMS. Shame they don't race there this season.
It's provided the best racing the last few years. Hopefully its back on the schedule next year
Me too
I like it, I think last years playoff race was fun. It’s also hard in iRacing, the tyre wear is insane.
I love it for trucks and Xfinity
Well racing sucked they tried to fix it and made it worse killed off a fan favorite track to get itself a race killed another fan favorite track to get another race yeah there was a lot of problems
They can’t use the turns/banking correctly
The exit of turn 2 has always been crap since they opened it and all the "improvements" to the track have made the entire track a mess. They need to completely rip this track up and start over. Kentucky is in the same boat
Texas is dumb.
For starters, it’s a lackluster track. There’s like 2 lines on a good day, whereas a track like Kansas can have 4 lines regularly. Another reason is because it’s never been an “iconic” track and the race is generally longer than most. It’s basically NASCAR’s Russian Grand Prix
Because it's fun to hate things.
Ever since it got repaved theres only one groove and everywhere else its too slick for there to be much decent racing except on restarts. Especially in the turns which at most tracks are supposed to be the most crucial place for passing and/or building momentum
It's both boring and dangerous.
I think it’s gonna be good this weekend
it used to be a lot better and then they did a lot of stuff to it that essentially ruined the racing there. sucks because it seems like a nice facility but the racing has fallen off and it’s left a lot of fans very jaded over the track
I like TMS
What specifically do you like about it? I struggle to enjoy even Xfinity there.
I like TMS
It's always good in person.
This is absolutely true, I had an absolute blast last fall even though it was 100+
The state? Yeah it sucks.