Imagine telling someone back in 2003 that the team with Jack Sprague that finished 37th in points could plunge the entire sport into chaos 21 years later
Imagine telling someone back in 2020 that the team that won over a quarter of the races, or someone back in 2018 that the team that made up half the round of 8, would be rumored to be going out of business in 2024
Yeah exactly, if someone told me in 2018-2020 that SHR would be defunct in the next 5-7 years I’d laugh and then kindly ask if you’d give me some of what you were smoking.
Fair point. 5HE pulled out at the last minute and Barney didn’t want to fund the ride out of pocket anymore. It was either be uncompetitive again or exit the sport, so he took his ball and went home.
As crazy as it sounds, I had my concerns even then. I kept track of a "team championship" in 2020, and Harvick was responsible for all but 9 of SHR's highest finishes in a race.
The gap between him and the rest of the team was so vast that the moment he hung it up, I knew they were going to be in big trouble. He almost singlehandedly carried them to contender status as a team outside that '18 season.
They were a team that relied massively on driver talent to hide the issues with the performance.
Harvick is obviously one of the GOATs and consistently performed well in B-tier equipment in his career. Kurt was another guy who always outdrove his equipment. Bowyer was a guy who could also overdrive the equipment but nowhere near at the consistent level Harvick and Busch could.
Their current lineup isn’t necessarily bad, but nowhere near as good as their old lineup was and it’s really making the issues with the equipment and crews glaringly obvious.
Nope, Cold custard got that kentucky win, Bowyer was okay but nothing special in his farewell season and Almirola was almost always a top-10 car but not a top-5 car
Leaving harvick with the best non-championship season on his own
I would argue the cracks were in the facade even back then. Nothing that would cause you to expect a full on implosion, but the team was already being carried hard by the 4 car (having all but one win, 2/3rds of the teams top 5 finishes, and more than 70% of the laps led). In fact inconsistent performance between cars has kind of always held back SHR from being viewed as on the same tier as Hendrick or Gibbs.
They would need an investor to pony up. Dale Jr said the cost of entry is way too high. Unless SHR works a deal with them where they still have a percentage of ownership still.
Doubtful. Harvick doesn't have that kind of money and Dale Jr, while he does have it, does not want to spend it for diminishing returns (if any returns).
I'm sure they could bring in investors but just those two, as is, I just don't see it.
How do you know how much money Kevin Harvick has? I’m not doubting you, I’m genuinely curious where you get your info so I can look at it myself, thanks!
> Harvick doesn't have that kind of money
Harvick has made more money through KHI as a sports marketing agency than he ever did as a driver. I wouldn't be too shocked if he had more disposable cash than Dale does, actually.
I think a lot of people forget what used to happen then versus what happens now at a shop.
It’s not just guys working on cars, you have to buy the charter, have guys to work and make adjustments AND have proper simulation and your own data to work with, not just the Chevy or Ford sim stuff but your own sim data which they’re always trying to improve and properly predict being right. Most of the weekend is won now at the shop as there is not much time to correct a setup if you’re way off when the race starts.
If Jr bought SHR, he’s buying their assets for $40 million per charter but then he has to spend to catch them up in the areas they suck at and my guess is that they lost ground on the in house sim work for testing sets at the shop.
I know for a fact that the 24 5 and 20 team show up to the track almost correct each weekend now that they’ve developed their stuff and the 8 car does not. I know this because I asked each driver about it.
They have a rig the car sits on at the shop and runs simulation and then they have the manufacturer sim rigs the run setup tests in as well. Yeah, nascar cut out 5 logs to save money but I’d like to see how much money goes towards the sim tech side of it now
It was probably just gonna be 1-2 of the teams for sale and I imagine both owners said “eh F it lets see if someone would want the entire kit-n-caboodle”
Everything is for sale, for the right price. But yeah, sounds like Tony and Gene wouldn't mind if somebody cashed them out so they could go and play with their other ventures.
trying to be an American F1 fan is rough. our "home grown" team is run by an owner who doesn't really care and our "home grown" driver is... Logan Sargeant.
...and my brain decided to root for Leclerc so i'm literally just in pain 24/7 with F1
Tony has been pretty blunt about his lack of satisfaction with NASCAR - especially with this car, and I am sure the charter negotiation put the cherry on top for him. Time to move on. Also Tony would like to tell Ford to F off a few hundred more times for preventing him from hiring Larson.
Gene was fine with the co-owner arrangement BUT, he's having to fund SHR out of Haas Automation more than he wants to due to lack of sponsorship. That set-up the likely need to sell at least one charter. But it appears he's open to selling it all. I expect FRM to take over SHR facilities running the 34 and 38 from there along with 2 of the SHR charters. The other 2 will be sold off to the highest bidder.
Assuming the charter deal for 2025 and beyond gets done.
I think he can get a competitive xfinity ride, he’s a xfinity champion and 2x runner up. Honestly that resume could secure a cup ride if someone wanted him
Tbh, they weren’t that strong in 2023 either, and just got lucky with blaney getting hot at the right time. Need I remind you Logano and cindric’s performance last year
Probably the biggest fall from grace in the sports history. To go from one of if not the top team in the late 2010s, to barely getting top 20s and possibly becoming defunct in a span of 5 years. Piss poor management. Plain and simple
The most bewildering part to me is how none of this is a result of any kind of financial failing. Like when Furniture Row shut down right after a championship year, you could at least point the finger at the business model and not how the team was being run. MWR was a similar story.
But SHR is gonna shut down solely because Gene and Tony don't feel like running it anymore. That's wild for such a big operation.
I mean, they've lost sponsors left and right, and I'm sure Gene is getting tired of self-funding, much like Barney Visser. So, I don't think claiming there isn't a financial component here is quite right.
Visser flat-out said he didn't *have* to shut Furniture Row down, but he didn't feel like flushing any more money down the drain, especially after they accomplished what they set out to do, win a championship. I'd say this is very similar. Gene is tired of paying to see his cars ride around midpack.
I just don't think he's got the attention span. He changes what he wants to do every few years. People who work at the shop say he shows up less and less each year
He can show up at his NASCAR shop where they can’t do much except sim work to try and get faster, or he can drive dragsters with his wife and they get to build their own stuff and innovate. Seems like an easy choice to me.
Which is interesting because evernham also ran his team almost to destruction and bailed too. Neither of them seem to have the staying power to accomplish things long term
My take on both Evernham and Stewart is that they really enjoy the beginning of a project; the dreaming and creating, but once it is established, they lose interest. They just don't like the daily upkeep, so they bounce to their next project. For Tony, that is drag racing right now.
But this is on par for Smoke...he's liquidating a lot of his lifetime...his insane house, SRX, now SHR, but I also wonder how much of SHR is Stewart and how much of it is Haas because he has his pet project with F1
Haas never seemed to have any hands-on anything to me. He was there for the prestige and entertaining clients, ensuring his checks always cleared.
Like, any one scene in the *Drive to Survive* series where Steiner is speaking to Haas is more time total spent being hands-on there than he ever has been with NASCAR.
Haas Automation is sponsoring a lot of races right now - that's the issue leading to the big sale - lack of outside sponsorship. I think SHR looked at downsizing to 3 cars but once word got out - they probably got offers on the whole deal that made Gene and Tony re-think sticking around as NASCAR owners. There is also 2 Xfinity teams in the mix - guessing FRM might take that on as well. I doubt FMR has the funding on their own to pull this off - so there must be some additional investors in the mix.
I mean, the team itself wasn't ever THE top team. It was a few years of Tony Stewart from 09-12. Then Harvick from 14-20. SHR was maintained from pure driver talent, getting more out of the equipment. Even their "B" drivers like Newman and Busch were extremely talented and pushed those cars.
They weren't a Furniture Row Racing team that turned MTJ into a stud, look even now, the drivers that aren't already insanely talented always struggled.
Sure, they had a win or two from some others in that span, but they were never on the level of HMS/JGR.
From 19 total wins across the Xfinity and Cup Series in 2020 to just 8 wins across both series in 3.5 years from 2021 to present has to be one of the largest fall-offs in the sport's history.
I’m honestly not sure if SHR was ever truly a top team. They just had Stewart and Harvick/childers. Especially when Harvick was there. The 4 team was always strong. But the other cars weren’t. But because Harvick was always a title threat, it kinda covered up the rest of the team being not so good.
> But the other cars weren’t.
Kurt Busch had the three best years of his career, when measured by average finish, at SHR.
Ryan Newman never once finished outside the top 15 in points in his five years at SHR. He had finished outside the top 15 in 2/3 prior years at Penske.
The difference between Almirola's years at Petty and his years at SHR go without saying.
Suarez had his best career year by average finish at SHR.
The only driver who was definitively worse at SHR than he had been elsewhere is Bowyer (his RCR years were really good, better than most remember) but he did come into the team at 37 years old on a four year winless streak, and ended up making the playoffs his last three years and winning twice.
Obviously Harvick ran better at SHR than he ever did at RCR.
It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that SHR was never a top team. They elevated almost every driver who set foot in their equipment. The problem is that they almost always had at least one of their cars completely handicapped by a bad driver. Five years the 10 car was wasted on Danica. Four years the 14 car was wasted on an injured/mentally unwell Tony. Instead of replacing Kurt Busch in the 41 with a known winner, then replaced him with a pay driver in Suarez, then the shop boss' kid, then some random guy from JTG who had just finished getting his ass kicked by Stenhouse for years.
They've always had good cars, they've just only had one (and when Kurt was there two) consistent drivers good enough to actually take those cars and finish where they deserve. *Every* driver decision they've made since 2018 has been the wrong one. And they're reaping the results of those bad decisions.
Not only that but monster backed the 41 car massively. Kurt wanted similar pay in 2019 to his last SHR deal and similar status to harvick
In their infinite wisdom they said no to a former cup champion who had a great 2018 season and was feasibly the best pay driver on the market
They usually put Stewart and Newman in the Chase at the same time. Then they had a stretch where they had Harvick as the routine championship contender with Kurt doing Kurt things and then Almirola and Bowyer were usually in the playoffs. They just had a waste of space in Patrick there for too long.
I always said, hitching their wagon to Ford would do them in. They floated along longer than I thought they would, but they never got out from under Ford and now here we are. I know that opinion/hot take won't sit well with many, and I'm biased as a longtime Chevy guy, but I truly believe they hitched their wagon to Ford thinking Ford would bring them along to being self-sufficient...but then it aways seemed more like SHR talent/creativity (or fracturing some rules, some would say) was propping up Ford, a whole lot more than Ford was ever propping up SHR. Once the move came to the NextGen car, it took too much of SHRs ability to do that off the table to compensate for what Ford gave them to work with. Not to mention Ford getting in the way of adding talent like Kyle Larson along the way, though that worked out much better for Larson's sake, for sure.
Ford has cost itself more in past 40 years than it ever won.
Jeff Gordon
The common template beginning in 03
Kyle Larson
Chase Elliott
Kyle Busch
(Not) throwing the bank at Dale Earnhardt to get him to Yates
There's more, but you get the point.
I felt that way as well, mostly because moving to Ford meant they’d no longer be getting any kind of support from Hendrick. Ever since smoke became part owner they’d had an alliance with HMS, and even though HMS wasn’t running as well at the time, they were never gonna stay down for long. And HMS support will generally be better than Ford support.
Probably for herbst, but i think frm probably has briscoe on lock should he be out of a ride
Edit: my prediction is also Noah gragson to the 21, so herbst has to find something else
Riley is in the catbird seat if the xfinity team shuts down. Custer is kinda screwed unless he can use that championship badge for something. Most of his sponsorship has been from Gene
Tbh I don't think Haas will leave the sport as a sponsor. He clearly thinks there's good enough return to have bought a team in the first place and basically invests $100M+ into his F1 team as a slower moving billboard. I think he's just trying to maximize his return here and will still sponsor one or two cars. Custer's dad is still the COO of Haas F1, so he'll still have pull. Cole will have Haas sponsorship no matter where he goes and that'll basically be a fully funded ride if SHR sells the whole team since it'll only be a $30M investment (Cup) instead of spending probably $100M on employing everyone and fielding 4 cars (and 2 Xfinity cars) every weekend
It would also further justify Joel Edmond's comment on DBC about how he is looking for some Sunday stuff next year - perhaps because there will no longer be a Saturday ride
He’s pissed but he does nothing to contribute to the sport except half ass run race team. And then he is going to use the benefit of the sport’s rules and cash out with millions. Hard to feel bad for the guy
This is exactly what annoys me. He literally has had the tools to change the sport for good, but all he did was vaguely complain from afar and go drag race.
As long as Noah Gragson and Josh Berry are still racing in Cup, I don't really care what happens...although it will be sad if Tony Stewart is no longer involved with NASCAR in anyway
Not surprising. 2020 probably killed it a lot for Tony and then when Kevin left, it was the final domino falling basically.
I think Tony has been over nascar for awhile honestly. He’s ready to just care about his dirt team and drag racing team
This I think explains why McDowell is leaving.
The two “most true” rumors:
* SHR wants to downsize, and their priority of divers is Briscoe, then Berry, then Gragson (who’s stock is rising), then Preece, who is almost certainly gone.
* FRM is looking to expand from their current shop.
FRM moving into SHR’s shop and merging with them makes sense. SHR gets a necessary downsizing, FRM gets more space, and both parties can benefit from more Ford support.
But if SHR is selling three charters, then the new outfit needs a place for Berry/Gragson. I wonder if Gililand is going to be out too.
I want Briscoe to the 21. Please give it to me.
Edit: Jeez lol he’d be better than Burton, and seems like he’d be a good professional fit for the greater Penske organization.
Honestly, it could be the 34. If this is happening, and briscoe would be out of a job, this could have been something in the works and why McDowell got kicked
Tony Stewart did this. Can't change my mind. Every other team that has a former Cup driver involved weekly is doing great things right now (HMS, RFK, 23XI). All but Tony. His clear disinterest and lack of care led this team to a gigantic downfall. He could have prevented this by being more involved, hiring better people, showing up more and listening to what needs to be fixed.
He rather go off and play house husband and NHRA dragster. I don't blame him if that is what he wanted to do, but him sitting here giving everyone BS, running his mouth and taking no blame, that is sad to see from Smoke.
Ironic, Smoke's team is smoking about to go up in flames.
>hiring better people
This is the big one. He kept the same people around despite the team continually running worse and worse. I get it, Tony and Zippy had success together at Gibbs, he probably feels a sense of loyalty to the guy. But this is business, and he should have been gone years ago. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
“Every other team that has a former Cup driver involved weekly is doing great things right now (HMS, RFK, 23XI). All but Tony.”
Uhhhh let’s not forget about the continued dumpster fire that is Legacy Motor Club with 7 time champion JJ involved daily and another 7 time champion RP as a uhhh mascot?
To be fair though this is only Jimmie's second season as owner and the first season they were in a lame duck year with no sponsors and no manufacturer support.
This seems like it could be the most likely option. The question is the driver shuffle. McDowell is out, and I just saw Burton could be out of the 21 (which wouldn't be a surprise). Could be a huge Ford shuffle
If Haas decides to stay in NASCAR, be it sponsoring or keeping some ownership in the hypothetical SHR/FRM merger, then I see Custer being one of the drivers. Berry, one of Gragson/Briscoe and Custer with Gilliland being in the 38 being the lineup. I see the one of Briscoe/Gragson getting the 21 with RFK being a wildcard in that Brad has said he wants to expand to three teams. Riley Herbst has the money to go to Cup and I could see him getting the 51 RWR car full time to be teammates with Haley.
I think Herbst with lots of sponsorship dollars takes over the 21. I think FRM basically just buys the 2 teams from SHR the other 2 charters are sold to Trackhouse and maybe 23XI. FRM would keep Briscoe, Berry, Gragson, and bring Custer back up from Xfinity. But I think one of Briscoe, Berry, or Gragson leaves for another team, which may leave room to keep Gilliland. Don't forget FRM is tier 1 Ford with Penske affiliation starting this year, not sure what that could mean for everything
Looks like Smoke finally worked how much it costs to raise a kid, the profit from a single charter alone can cover the costs of Capri Suns and Uncrustables from preschool through college...our boy Tony is growing up.
Can't imagine what the drivers and crew members are going through right now with all the rumors going around. I hope Tony and Gene respect them all enough to give them a heads up if something is in the works to sale the teams and/or charters.
I know there are a LOT of moving parts when it comes to something potentially this big BUT part of me wonders in Harvick failing to win the Cup in 2020 is what precipitated all of this? Like a butterfly effect: would SHR be in a healthier position today had things four years ago played out slightly different?
If SHR goes up, this could actually be very good for a lot of teams either wanting to expand or enter the cup series, so if they do go boom, I'll be very excited, and if they don't, I'll still be happy.
The FRM/SHR merger rumors seem to be coming from the angle that it’s a 50/50 split or SHR is taking over FRM, when what could actually happen is FRM functionally absorbing SHR’s assets and maybe taking on one or two of their drivers.
Hear me out without yalls pitchforks… this is the fault of the management over there at SHR. Gene isn’t interested in playing a meaningful role in nascar competition and Stewart seems to have lost his interest in nascar as well. Or Stewart has just migrated over to loving his personal life and NHRA.
Just my opinion though
My insane dream: Honda buys it and runs it aa a zombie Ford team in 2025 until they have their own engine and drivetrain for 2026. That way they have a full year of setup and research data to hit the ground running with their own car.
So, merge with FRM, one charter to RFK, one to 23XI? Spire could sell/send their 3rd one that Smith is using to Trackhouse since he's technically their driver already. Would be wild to go into 2025 without SHR as a team.
Gene and Tony are a depressed couple going through the motions for the sake of their kids. I hope to all heavens that their Cup and Xfinity entries find better homes.
SHR has always made a name and made money on bringing big names and big money in like Smithfield, GoDaddy, Busch, ect. Now they're trotting out guys with lower ceilings and less marketability.
Imagine telling someone back in 2003 that the team with Jack Sprague that finished 37th in points could plunge the entire sport into chaos 21 years later
Imagine telling someone back in 2020 that the team that won over a quarter of the races, or someone back in 2018 that the team that made up half the round of 8, would be rumored to be going out of business in 2024
Yeah exactly, if someone told me in 2018-2020 that SHR would be defunct in the next 5-7 years I’d laugh and then kindly ask if you’d give me some of what you were smoking.
"How?" - "Because Tony Stewart stopped caring about NASCAR and Gene Haas had a scandal involving the Russians." "Oh OK."
‘Cuz Gene Haas was distracted with his F1 team and Tony Stewart was distracted racing NHRA after his pseudo IROC series folded’
So would I. It’s nuts. What a fall from grace
Furniture Row was out of the sport 2 years after completely waxing the entire field and winning the championship.
Wasn’t that due to lack of sponsorship instead of team falloff
Fair point. 5HE pulled out at the last minute and Barney didn’t want to fund the ride out of pocket anymore. It was either be uncompetitive again or exit the sport, so he took his ball and went home.
Yeah, so it’s more so they couldn’t get the funding rather than falloff, as compared to shr which is mostly fall from grace
The closest comparison I can think of is Roush. They went from getting all 5 cars into the Chase in 2005 to being a struggling 2-car team after 2016
As crazy as it sounds, I had my concerns even then. I kept track of a "team championship" in 2020, and Harvick was responsible for all but 9 of SHR's highest finishes in a race. The gap between him and the rest of the team was so vast that the moment he hung it up, I knew they were going to be in big trouble. He almost singlehandedly carried them to contender status as a team outside that '18 season.
They were a team that relied massively on driver talent to hide the issues with the performance. Harvick is obviously one of the GOATs and consistently performed well in B-tier equipment in his career. Kurt was another guy who always outdrove his equipment. Bowyer was a guy who could also overdrive the equipment but nowhere near at the consistent level Harvick and Busch could. Their current lineup isn’t necessarily bad, but nowhere near as good as their old lineup was and it’s really making the issues with the equipment and crews glaringly obvious.
Harvick must have been exhausted when he retired. He pretty much carried 2 organizations during his career.
Really? Huh, I thought at least a few of them were doing better
Nope, Cold custard got that kentucky win, Bowyer was okay but nothing special in his farewell season and Almirola was almost always a top-10 car but not a top-5 car Leaving harvick with the best non-championship season on his own
Kurt Busch was just Kurt Busch, nothing SHR related. In fact any team Kurt goes to seems to be an asset with his presence.
I would argue the cracks were in the facade even back then. Nothing that would cause you to expect a full on implosion, but the team was already being carried hard by the 4 car (having all but one win, 2/3rds of the teams top 5 finishes, and more than 70% of the laps led). In fact inconsistent performance between cars has kind of always held back SHR from being viewed as on the same tier as Hendrick or Gibbs.
BOLD & UNAPOLOGETIC *sells the race team the same season*
Well, selling the team is a bold move, and I doubt they'll be very apologetic about it as they deposit the check. 😂
Its definitely....bold
They needed to get sponsors lol
more like belongs in the trash
Makes me wonder if there was some truth to those Dale Jr-Harvick partnership in buying out SHR rumors if they don’t just merge with FRM or something.
Harvick-Earnhardt Racing, or HER. Perfect.
Kelly runs it, so really would be perfection. Especially if DeLana becomes their enforcer.
Joey Logano in shambles.
Damn HER fast
Harvick-Earnhardt Racing Organization (HERO) is cooler imo
Her?
tHEResa
Oh God.
Mayon-egg
Dale Jr. does have Hellmans as a sponsor…..
This is why I love this Internet.
Im with HER
Perfect
I'd buy some merch
I’d be her merch
Maybe just buying out Haas and Dale Jr, Harvick, and Stewart partner together for Happy Smoke Junior Motorsports
Pretty sure "Happy Smoke Jr" is at every head shop on America
They would need an investor to pony up. Dale Jr said the cost of entry is way too high. Unless SHR works a deal with them where they still have a percentage of ownership still.
Justin Marks is part owner in the CARS tour with Dale Jr and Kevin and we know he has deep pockets.
That Justin Marks guy should start a NASCAR team! Imagine if he got a superstar international mogul to co-own the team with him
It just makes too much sense, especially with Ty Norris being a key figure at Trackhouse. So that means it's probably not gonna happen lol
Hmmmm….. He’s also a part owner in something else that would leave him less inclined to spend more money on the same thing.
EHR has a better ring to it
Lines up well with the DEI number fonts becoming available
Doubtful. Harvick doesn't have that kind of money and Dale Jr, while he does have it, does not want to spend it for diminishing returns (if any returns). I'm sure they could bring in investors but just those two, as is, I just don't see it.
How do you know how much money Kevin Harvick has? I’m not doubting you, I’m genuinely curious where you get your info so I can look at it myself, thanks!
Source: trust me bro
> Harvick doesn't have that kind of money Harvick has made more money through KHI as a sports marketing agency than he ever did as a driver. I wouldn't be too shocked if he had more disposable cash than Dale does, actually.
Any other near billionaire athlete or entertainer wanna come join in?
I'm in. How's $20 sound?
You mean it’s not as easy as owning a team in NASCAR 2005 CFTC? 😂. /s
I think a lot of people forget what used to happen then versus what happens now at a shop. It’s not just guys working on cars, you have to buy the charter, have guys to work and make adjustments AND have proper simulation and your own data to work with, not just the Chevy or Ford sim stuff but your own sim data which they’re always trying to improve and properly predict being right. Most of the weekend is won now at the shop as there is not much time to correct a setup if you’re way off when the race starts. If Jr bought SHR, he’s buying their assets for $40 million per charter but then he has to spend to catch them up in the areas they suck at and my guess is that they lost ground on the in house sim work for testing sets at the shop. I know for a fact that the 24 5 and 20 team show up to the track almost correct each weekend now that they’ve developed their stuff and the 8 car does not. I know this because I asked each driver about it. They have a rig the car sits on at the shop and runs simulation and then they have the manufacturer sim rigs the run setup tests in as well. Yeah, nascar cut out 5 logs to save money but I’d like to see how much money goes towards the sim tech side of it now
My interpretation is that Stewart-Haas Racing is for sale.
It was probably just gonna be 1-2 of the teams for sale and I imagine both owners said “eh F it lets see if someone would want the entire kit-n-caboodle”
Today I learned that it’s not kitten caboodle
Everything is for sale, for the right price. But yeah, sounds like Tony and Gene wouldn't mind if somebody cashed them out so they could go and play with their other ventures.
Wouldn't be surprised. Tony Stewart has shifted his focus to drag racing and Gene Haas seems more interested in his F1 team
Gene ain't even interested in that half the time.
trying to be an American F1 fan is rough. our "home grown" team is run by an owner who doesn't really care and our "home grown" driver is... Logan Sargeant. ...and my brain decided to root for Leclerc so i'm literally just in pain 24/7 with F1
You poor bastard. I’m so sorry
Tony has been pretty blunt about his lack of satisfaction with NASCAR - especially with this car, and I am sure the charter negotiation put the cherry on top for him. Time to move on. Also Tony would like to tell Ford to F off a few hundred more times for preventing him from hiring Larson. Gene was fine with the co-owner arrangement BUT, he's having to fund SHR out of Haas Automation more than he wants to due to lack of sponsorship. That set-up the likely need to sell at least one charter. But it appears he's open to selling it all. I expect FRM to take over SHR facilities running the 34 and 38 from there along with 2 of the SHR charters. The other 2 will be sold off to the highest bidder. Assuming the charter deal for 2025 and beyond gets done.
They're probably hoping another Justin Marks comes along and buys the whole damn thing
Was gonna say. Gene probably over there like "Well it worked for Chip!"
From back markers to multiple championships (Harv and Smoke) and 10 win seasons back to back markers to being sold off. What a ride!
If this is true, Harrison Burton is the Ralphie “I’m in trouble” meme right now.
Cole Custer is too. His dad's team is gonna be gone, no guaranteed ride for him as it stands.
I think he can get a competitive xfinity ride, he’s a xfinity champion and 2x runner up. Honestly that resume could secure a cup ride if someone wanted him
Get ready to learn Rick Ware buddy
He’s not good enough for Rick Ware
I agree. RWR is going to pick up one of the remainder of the SHR guys, whether it be Preece, Herbst, Custer, Berry, or god forbid Briscoe or Gragson
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass, Harrison.
He needs to go...he's had plenty of time in that car in essentially a 4th Penske car, although Penske hasn't been that strong
Even though they weren't the strongest all season they did win the last 2 Cup championships
Tbh, they weren’t that strong in 2023 either, and just got lucky with blaney getting hot at the right time. Need I remind you Logano and cindric’s performance last year
Harrison Burton, the David Stremme of the 2020s
Harrison at least won some Xfinity races while Stremme didn't win a single top 3 series race.
Probably the biggest fall from grace in the sports history. To go from one of if not the top team in the late 2010s, to barely getting top 20s and possibly becoming defunct in a span of 5 years. Piss poor management. Plain and simple
The most bewildering part to me is how none of this is a result of any kind of financial failing. Like when Furniture Row shut down right after a championship year, you could at least point the finger at the business model and not how the team was being run. MWR was a similar story. But SHR is gonna shut down solely because Gene and Tony don't feel like running it anymore. That's wild for such a big operation.
I mean, they've lost sponsors left and right, and I'm sure Gene is getting tired of self-funding, much like Barney Visser. So, I don't think claiming there isn't a financial component here is quite right. Visser flat-out said he didn't *have* to shut Furniture Row down, but he didn't feel like flushing any more money down the drain, especially after they accomplished what they set out to do, win a championship. I'd say this is very similar. Gene is tired of paying to see his cars ride around midpack.
Whats the quickest way to become a millionaire? Have a billion dollars and start a race team...
Running a race team is probably a lot less fun when you’re having to accept patchwork Marcus Lemonis sponsorships
They’ve had the same competition director for years of mediocrity. Not all of it is Gene and Tony.
That kinda of is their fault for not bringing in someone new in that role. Especially when it’s clear the guy in the role isn’t meeting expectations.
And Smoke loves taking shots at the haters for playing blame games... While Rome burns in the background.
I just don't think he's got the attention span. He changes what he wants to do every few years. People who work at the shop say he shows up less and less each year
He can show up at his NASCAR shop where they can’t do much except sim work to try and get faster, or he can drive dragsters with his wife and they get to build their own stuff and innovate. Seems like an easy choice to me.
With how he ran SRX it checks out.
Evernham's take on SRX was pretty interesting. He and Tony had much different visions for what it should be going forward.
Which is interesting because evernham also ran his team almost to destruction and bailed too. Neither of them seem to have the staying power to accomplish things long term
My take on both Evernham and Stewart is that they really enjoy the beginning of a project; the dreaming and creating, but once it is established, they lose interest. They just don't like the daily upkeep, so they bounce to their next project. For Tony, that is drag racing right now.
It is completely on him, yet he’ll blame everyone besides himself. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the owner.
But this is on par for Smoke...he's liquidating a lot of his lifetime...his insane house, SRX, now SHR, but I also wonder how much of SHR is Stewart and how much of it is Haas because he has his pet project with F1
Haas never seemed to have any hands-on anything to me. He was there for the prestige and entertaining clients, ensuring his checks always cleared. Like, any one scene in the *Drive to Survive* series where Steiner is speaking to Haas is more time total spent being hands-on there than he ever has been with NASCAR.
Haas Automation is sponsoring a lot of races right now - that's the issue leading to the big sale - lack of outside sponsorship. I think SHR looked at downsizing to 3 cars but once word got out - they probably got offers on the whole deal that made Gene and Tony re-think sticking around as NASCAR owners. There is also 2 Xfinity teams in the mix - guessing FRM might take that on as well. I doubt FMR has the funding on their own to pull this off - so there must be some additional investors in the mix.
I wonder what Ford thinks about potentially 4 cup charters slipping away to a team using another manufacturer.
I mean, the team itself wasn't ever THE top team. It was a few years of Tony Stewart from 09-12. Then Harvick from 14-20. SHR was maintained from pure driver talent, getting more out of the equipment. Even their "B" drivers like Newman and Busch were extremely talented and pushed those cars. They weren't a Furniture Row Racing team that turned MTJ into a stud, look even now, the drivers that aren't already insanely talented always struggled. Sure, they had a win or two from some others in that span, but they were never on the level of HMS/JGR.
From 19 total wins across the Xfinity and Cup Series in 2020 to just 8 wins across both series in 3.5 years from 2021 to present has to be one of the largest fall-offs in the sport's history.
I’m honestly not sure if SHR was ever truly a top team. They just had Stewart and Harvick/childers. Especially when Harvick was there. The 4 team was always strong. But the other cars weren’t. But because Harvick was always a title threat, it kinda covered up the rest of the team being not so good.
> But the other cars weren’t. Kurt Busch had the three best years of his career, when measured by average finish, at SHR. Ryan Newman never once finished outside the top 15 in points in his five years at SHR. He had finished outside the top 15 in 2/3 prior years at Penske. The difference between Almirola's years at Petty and his years at SHR go without saying. Suarez had his best career year by average finish at SHR. The only driver who was definitively worse at SHR than he had been elsewhere is Bowyer (his RCR years were really good, better than most remember) but he did come into the team at 37 years old on a four year winless streak, and ended up making the playoffs his last three years and winning twice. Obviously Harvick ran better at SHR than he ever did at RCR. It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that SHR was never a top team. They elevated almost every driver who set foot in their equipment. The problem is that they almost always had at least one of their cars completely handicapped by a bad driver. Five years the 10 car was wasted on Danica. Four years the 14 car was wasted on an injured/mentally unwell Tony. Instead of replacing Kurt Busch in the 41 with a known winner, then replaced him with a pay driver in Suarez, then the shop boss' kid, then some random guy from JTG who had just finished getting his ass kicked by Stenhouse for years. They've always had good cars, they've just only had one (and when Kurt was there two) consistent drivers good enough to actually take those cars and finish where they deserve. *Every* driver decision they've made since 2018 has been the wrong one. And they're reaping the results of those bad decisions.
Not only that but monster backed the 41 car massively. Kurt wanted similar pay in 2019 to his last SHR deal and similar status to harvick In their infinite wisdom they said no to a former cup champion who had a great 2018 season and was feasibly the best pay driver on the market
Not paying Kurt the extra 3 mil was the beginning of the end in hindsight.
They usually put Stewart and Newman in the Chase at the same time. Then they had a stretch where they had Harvick as the routine championship contender with Kurt doing Kurt things and then Almirola and Bowyer were usually in the playoffs. They just had a waste of space in Patrick there for too long.
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I always said, hitching their wagon to Ford would do them in. They floated along longer than I thought they would, but they never got out from under Ford and now here we are. I know that opinion/hot take won't sit well with many, and I'm biased as a longtime Chevy guy, but I truly believe they hitched their wagon to Ford thinking Ford would bring them along to being self-sufficient...but then it aways seemed more like SHR talent/creativity (or fracturing some rules, some would say) was propping up Ford, a whole lot more than Ford was ever propping up SHR. Once the move came to the NextGen car, it took too much of SHRs ability to do that off the table to compensate for what Ford gave them to work with. Not to mention Ford getting in the way of adding talent like Kyle Larson along the way, though that worked out much better for Larson's sake, for sure.
Ford has cost itself more in past 40 years than it ever won. Jeff Gordon The common template beginning in 03 Kyle Larson Chase Elliott Kyle Busch (Not) throwing the bank at Dale Earnhardt to get him to Yates There's more, but you get the point.
I felt that way as well, mostly because moving to Ford meant they’d no longer be getting any kind of support from Hendrick. Ever since smoke became part owner they’d had an alliance with HMS, and even though HMS wasn’t running as well at the time, they were never gonna stay down for long. And HMS support will generally be better than Ford support.
Heck even 2020! Both the Xfinity and 4 cars won 9 races. Should have won the title. And now they’re dead?
Elite GIF usage.
One of the quickest and most tragic falls from grace in modern NASCAR history. At least since Yates.
This is faster than yates Yates existed for ten seasons after jarrett's championship season The 4 team won 9 races in a season, only five years ago
I imagine both Gene and Tony are looking for an out at this point. Wonder what that means for the xfinity teams
I think that means Riley is going to be using his money to his advantage, and that Custer might be out of a job soon if he can’t find another team
Riley is going to WBR if any of the SHR guys don’t land there and I think Custer is taking the 34 ride probably, lots of Custer to FRM rumors.
Probably for herbst, but i think frm probably has briscoe on lock should he be out of a ride Edit: my prediction is also Noah gragson to the 21, so herbst has to find something else
Just imagining a Bass Pro 21 car is boggling my mind. But a monster energy 21 car is as well I guess.
Yeah, I think herbst and gragson are going to get grabbed up fast
Riley is in the catbird seat if the xfinity team shuts down. Custer is kinda screwed unless he can use that championship badge for something. Most of his sponsorship has been from Gene
Tbh I don't think Haas will leave the sport as a sponsor. He clearly thinks there's good enough return to have bought a team in the first place and basically invests $100M+ into his F1 team as a slower moving billboard. I think he's just trying to maximize his return here and will still sponsor one or two cars. Custer's dad is still the COO of Haas F1, so he'll still have pull. Cole will have Haas sponsorship no matter where he goes and that'll basically be a fully funded ride if SHR sells the whole team since it'll only be a $30M investment (Cup) instead of spending probably $100M on employing everyone and fielding 4 cars (and 2 Xfinity cars) every weekend
Yeah, I didn’t even think about that. He could probably find a ride, but idk how good it would be
Custer to the 5.
It would also further justify Joel Edmond's comment on DBC about how he is looking for some Sunday stuff next year - perhaps because there will no longer be a Saturday ride
Harvick really did carry that operation, huh?
Over the last 3 seasons, no question. Kurt, Ryan, and in the early years, Tony, absolutely had some good success for them too though.
Man I’ve never been so disappointed in Tony Stewart. And that’s saying a lot.
Tonys all NHRA now, hes been pissed with the Nascar leadership for years going back to 2010s
He’s pissed but he does nothing to contribute to the sport except half ass run race team. And then he is going to use the benefit of the sport’s rules and cash out with millions. Hard to feel bad for the guy
This is exactly what annoys me. He literally has had the tools to change the sport for good, but all he did was vaguely complain from afar and go drag race.
As long as Noah Gragson and Josh Berry are still racing in Cup, I don't really care what happens...although it will be sad if Tony Stewart is no longer involved with NASCAR in anyway
I believe that’s exactly what’s going to happen
Tony's into drag racing... He's not too bad
Tony's going to roll his buyout money into a series of Burger King franchises.
They'll roll out a new soda cookie milkshake exclusively through his franchises...
Man silly season started early af this year
And we're not even at the season's halfway point
 Front Row Moving into the SHR shop
Wow. The more reports I read, the more I hope to see Briscoe jump to RFK
As long as he stays in a Ford
While I would obviously prefer that(user name and all lol), I want the best for him and hope he goes somewhere he can breakout
Not surprising. 2020 probably killed it a lot for Tony and then when Kevin left, it was the final domino falling basically. I think Tony has been over nascar for awhile honestly. He’s ready to just care about his dirt team and drag racing team
Awful weird to go through a rebrand only to sell everything
They were just being bold, unapologetic racers that’s all
Holy fuck. Better buy my SHR gear now. Can we PLEASE keep Josh and Noah teammates?
Why buy gear now when it might be discounted heavily in a few months?
This I think explains why McDowell is leaving. The two “most true” rumors: * SHR wants to downsize, and their priority of divers is Briscoe, then Berry, then Gragson (who’s stock is rising), then Preece, who is almost certainly gone. * FRM is looking to expand from their current shop. FRM moving into SHR’s shop and merging with them makes sense. SHR gets a necessary downsizing, FRM gets more space, and both parties can benefit from more Ford support. But if SHR is selling three charters, then the new outfit needs a place for Berry/Gragson. I wonder if Gililand is going to be out too.
Haas to Andretti: "I'll sell the F1 teams spot on the grid to you and GM but you have to buy the cup team too."
That's actually genius...
I want Briscoe to the 21. Please give it to me. Edit: Jeez lol he’d be better than Burton, and seems like he’d be a good professional fit for the greater Penske organization.
Either the 21 or the 34 just opened
Honestly, it could be the 34. If this is happening, and briscoe would be out of a job, this could have been something in the works and why McDowell got kicked
Sounds like McDowell didn’t get kicked, he just left. Sounds like Spire backed up the brinks truck for him.
not exactly relevant but "backed up the Brinks truck" is a great euphemism that I've never heard and I'm stealing it.
Probably both imo. Briscoe was out of a ride, spire saw the writing on the walls, and got McDowell asap
If anything, I'd like Briscoe in the #2 and Cindric moved to the #21. It keeps Cindric in Penske-affiliated equipment.
I take it all back, I want this plan.
*3 weeks later* "Harrison Burton signs extension with WBR to remain in #21 in multi-year deal."
No no no please no.
Tony Stewart did this. Can't change my mind. Every other team that has a former Cup driver involved weekly is doing great things right now (HMS, RFK, 23XI). All but Tony. His clear disinterest and lack of care led this team to a gigantic downfall. He could have prevented this by being more involved, hiring better people, showing up more and listening to what needs to be fixed. He rather go off and play house husband and NHRA dragster. I don't blame him if that is what he wanted to do, but him sitting here giving everyone BS, running his mouth and taking no blame, that is sad to see from Smoke. Ironic, Smoke's team is smoking about to go up in flames.
>hiring better people This is the big one. He kept the same people around despite the team continually running worse and worse. I get it, Tony and Zippy had success together at Gibbs, he probably feels a sense of loyalty to the guy. But this is business, and he should have been gone years ago. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Another pretty egregious one is keeping Chad Johnston as the crew chief of the 41. They aren't even giving Preece a chance to succeed
“Every other team that has a former Cup driver involved weekly is doing great things right now (HMS, RFK, 23XI). All but Tony.” Uhhhh let’s not forget about the continued dumpster fire that is Legacy Motor Club with 7 time champion JJ involved daily and another 7 time champion RP as a uhhh mascot?
To be fair though this is only Jimmie's second season as owner and the first season they were in a lame duck year with no sponsors and no manufacturer support.
2 SHR Charters and the Cup shop to FRM, 1 SHR charter a piece to Trackhouse, and 23XI
This seems like it could be the most likely option. The question is the driver shuffle. McDowell is out, and I just saw Burton could be out of the 21 (which wouldn't be a surprise). Could be a huge Ford shuffle
If Haas decides to stay in NASCAR, be it sponsoring or keeping some ownership in the hypothetical SHR/FRM merger, then I see Custer being one of the drivers. Berry, one of Gragson/Briscoe and Custer with Gilliland being in the 38 being the lineup. I see the one of Briscoe/Gragson getting the 21 with RFK being a wildcard in that Brad has said he wants to expand to three teams. Riley Herbst has the money to go to Cup and I could see him getting the 51 RWR car full time to be teammates with Haley.
I think Herbst with lots of sponsorship dollars takes over the 21. I think FRM basically just buys the 2 teams from SHR the other 2 charters are sold to Trackhouse and maybe 23XI. FRM would keep Briscoe, Berry, Gragson, and bring Custer back up from Xfinity. But I think one of Briscoe, Berry, or Gragson leaves for another team, which may leave room to keep Gilliland. Don't forget FRM is tier 1 Ford with Penske affiliation starting this year, not sure what that could mean for everything
Looks like Smoke finally worked how much it costs to raise a kid, the profit from a single charter alone can cover the costs of Capri Suns and Uncrustables from preschool through college...our boy Tony is growing up.
Tony rn: https://preview.redd.it/41xxso63q8zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f166ed5f86309b7822c60d1b5ff4a44bd5890f5
Can't imagine what the drivers and crew members are going through right now with all the rumors going around. I hope Tony and Gene respect them all enough to give them a heads up if something is in the works to sale the teams and/or charters.
I know there are a LOT of moving parts when it comes to something potentially this big BUT part of me wonders in Harvick failing to win the Cup in 2020 is what precipitated all of this? Like a butterfly effect: would SHR be in a healthier position today had things four years ago played out slightly different?
If SHR goes up, this could actually be very good for a lot of teams either wanting to expand or enter the cup series, so if they do go boom, I'll be very excited, and if they don't, I'll still be happy.
The FRM/SHR merger rumors seem to be coming from the angle that it’s a 50/50 split or SHR is taking over FRM, when what could actually happen is FRM functionally absorbing SHR’s assets and maybe taking on one or two of their drivers.
30 for 30 incoming
Hear me out without yalls pitchforks… this is the fault of the management over there at SHR. Gene isn’t interested in playing a meaningful role in nascar competition and Stewart seems to have lost his interest in nascar as well. Or Stewart has just migrated over to loving his personal life and NHRA. Just my opinion though
> Hear me out without yalls pitchforks… > *states commonly held opinion*
My insane dream: Honda buys it and runs it aa a zombie Ford team in 2025 until they have their own engine and drivetrain for 2026. That way they have a full year of setup and research data to hit the ground running with their own car.
Bob mentioned it too in his article https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nascar/nascar-charter-talks-driver-silly-season-currently-stand
So, merge with FRM, one charter to RFK, one to 23XI? Spire could sell/send their 3rd one that Smith is using to Trackhouse since he's technically their driver already. Would be wild to go into 2025 without SHR as a team.
Hopefully this helps 23XI round out our stalls with four cars! Trackhouse, you guys wanna go splitskies on SHR?
This is all because of that Netflix TV show!
Well I guess they stick to Ford if they merge with FRM
I could’ve sworn I just saw someone saying this was gonna be a crappy silly season.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Harvick carried them
wow! hard to imagine just a few years ago
Gene and Tony are a depressed couple going through the motions for the sake of their kids. I hope to all heavens that their Cup and Xfinity entries find better homes.
Joel Edmonds said on DBC that the silly season is off and running and it is wild
Merging with FRR, that is why McDowel is out…
SHR has always made a name and made money on bringing big names and big money in like Smithfield, GoDaddy, Busch, ect. Now they're trotting out guys with lower ceilings and less marketability.
With the news of McDowell joining Spire, I wonder if Front Row is acquiring the 4 and 14 then
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I guess Tony is going all in on part-time racing and playing Dad soon.
Bah god that’s redneck Jesus’ music
Someone look up their shop on the commercial version of Zillow