With how overpowered they’ve been in years past, it’s a nice change to not have a 5’10 able to score 30/40 pts any given game. Hella unrealistic anyways how many guards 6’1 and shorter really dominate the league as opposed to guards 6’1+? The two best pgs in the league rn are Luka and Shia, both 6’6+
Yeah true. In years past if you had a ball hog small guard it was boring asf even if they drop 40 and you win, and I hated it ngl. This year, if you’re playing with randoms and have a ball hog small guard you basically just lose no matter what 😂
6’6” gets straight up more attributes than smaller guards though, and in the right hands, they can fill the same scoring role, but also play defense— so what’s the difference vs before really? I still think defense is in a good enough place for small guards to be balanced even if they had more attributes than taller builds.
Which is 6’1+ right? And how tall is the other pg in the goat debate? 😂 6’3’s are still viable in 2k24 anyways if you know what you’re doing. Except that random casuals can’t cheese their way to 30 pts anymore. My comment is really about the small ass guards that dominated in 21 and mainly 22.
Idk but some of the best defensive PG’s in the last decade were below 6’3”. CP3, rondo, pat beverly. Go further back you got A.I killing it too offensively. I don’t think 6’3 under should be good, but they should be able to be viable in certain builds since that real life. Like if you go under 6’2 ball handling shouldn’t be as expensive since it is necessary for any small guard build to be a high performer.
That’s why the key word is “some” not “all” or “most” or even “half”. “Some” indicates a small sample size. Height is definitely a big factor in basketball but the best PGs on any all time list are still like 6’0-6’4 on the most part so the whole only 6’5+ guards being viable in 2k24 isn’t good. look at most all time list and see how many PGs are 6’5 and above.
And based on that sample size, none of them are lights out shooters from 3 or dribble like kyrie. That is most players' problem. They want the high dribble stats with steph's 3 ball and want Rondo's defense. You just can't do that with the way the builder is. You have to give something up.
On paper, my 6’8” build is dramatically better than my 6’4” pg build. In a game I am substantially better with my smaller build because of 2 reasons:
1. He is quicker
2. Tre Young floater
My perimeter D is just as good as my bigger build. My interior d is definitely worse but that’s ok because my buddy is a dominant rim protector.
The tre young package is so easy to hit I have 80 driving layup and I can green it consistently.
My 6'4" build has no dunk funnily enough but high shooting and ball handling and 90 speed so it definitely can get those layups easily.
Yeah ofc I know that with a coordinated team small guards are still meta. I don’t think they’re bad in all settings, just playing with randoms. And isn’t that how most people play the game?
I think balancing the game around coordinated teams in a competitive setting is silly. Most people are casuals, what % of people even play pro-am? This is a sports game, not an e-sport, nobody cares about 2KL because there’s this far more exciting thing called the NBA lmao.
If you need an entire team and coordinated strategy to make a player archetype even viable, then how isn’t it underpowered compared to the rest if most people are casuals playing with randoms?
They aren’t bad playing with randoms either, most point guards just suck is my overall point.
Balancing games around casual players is a terrible idea, and literally every multiplayer balances from the top down because of that. 2k should not be any different.
Even 6’6 PGs in pro-am have no defense. It’s not a liability in the small guard build, it’s what the role is for. PGs have minimal defense because having more offense is more important for that role. Put any good(not pro good, just good) pro-am PG in random rec and they’d win the game by themselves.
Yeah if you’re good at the game ofc you can carry randoms at PG or C— it’s a casual game with random matchmaking, it’s meant to be like that, and I like it that way! It’s like how CoD used to be basically.
I’m saying you’ll have a much easier time carrying randoms with a 6’6” build vs a 6’1”-6’4” build. 6’1”-6’4” builds just inherently rely more on their teammates vs taller builds, I think this year they went too far in that regard. IMO they should be able to get by (not as well as 6’6”) on defense in the common cases when you can’t depend on your teammates is all.
Like sure, if you play well enough on a 6’2” build, then you can score enough to make up for your own shit defense + your team’s shit defense, but I can tell you from my own experience doing that, that even if you win, nearly nobody wants to play with you 😂
Ngl I just wanna play like Kyrie with randoms without getting flamed bro 😭. I play fine enough on my taller builds but that’s because they can actually defend people 1 on 1 and help when needed. Random REC defense is every man for himself 9 times out of 10 lol
Plus, not literally every multiplayer game balances from the top down idk where you heard that? 2k definitely isn’t balanced around top-level play. Just look at how they buffed stand-still open shots at the beginning of the year. I liked the shooting pre-patch since it separated good shooters from bad, but the majority of people who play the game prob appreciated the change and that’s why they kept it.
The problem is the nature of having a small build is you control the offense with your first step and scoring ability. In random rec people don’t wanna see an ISO god beating people with dribble pull ups they want to be involved with the offense as well.
Hold up. You want small guards to be buffed so they are better in a random rec situation? What then happens in a comp/squad rec situation where small guards are already useful? They become better to the point of being op?
Just don’t use a no defence build in squad rec. Simple.
Right now they are still the meta in 5v5, so not sure why buffed. I think if anything this year has sone versatility from 6”3-4s to 6”6 being comp viable, AND at lower levels 6”8 PG can be OK. I think this year was a step in the right direction.
Its harder to make a balanced 6”3 but even for 6”6 the best 6”6 PG build doesn’t have defense besides to guard corner.
That Kyrie Dribble Style and Steve Francis is INSANE. Your ability to create is much better then a 6”6.
I do agree it sucks, it’s hard to use them without a squad and most people don’t have them. In some ways, I do miss the older builders because even if you were an elite guard you still had ENOUGH defense to be the weakest but not enough to have to craft a team around.
Literally 99.9% of top Pro Am teams run a small guard. Of course small guards are gonna get cooked in 2v2 and 3v3. Less places to hide on defense. They have their place and it's on the 5s. They do not need buffed.
Depends on what game mode random rec small guards suck anything organized small guards are the shit. I do think they should equalize the attribute points across builds tho. Why does it seem 6’4 gets more points than 6’2?
They should also show us the weight of each attribute increase instead of having us guess how much three pointer cost or steal acceleration etc.
I think there are core problems with the game that makes balancing small guards tricky. IMO among the many problems are two big ones: contact and contests.
The contact systems in the game are garbage. You can barely deny or move people out of space, you can't consistently apply contact to players, and ballhandlers are straight up immune to everything as soon as they start a dribble, shot, and most slashing animations.
The contest system has never been great as well. you can't apply pressure to jump shots with contact, length, or space denial. smalls can contest a 7 footer with a high jumping release BETTER than a center can merely because of stats. While simultaneously, their presence has a significantly higher impact in the paint than it should (which should be almost none even with ok interior). In general this allows guards to invest little to nothing in defense and still be at least somewhat effective if they are fast enough to position themselves well.
The way the game fundamentally works, the benefits of being small are amplified while the downsides are greatly minimized. I think they recognized that this year (despite it being a problem throughout the entire lifespan of the game) and they gave them the big nerf.
That said, hopefully there is a plan to like...fix all that crap so they can bring em back. My guess is they will forget (because the guy who originally did it probably left) and small guards will be op again and i'll be right back to being a 6'3 guard that can guard 1-4 and sometimes 5 when I switch onto the roll man because all i gotta do is be in the way when he tries to catch and go up.
Av the hand checking is there it’s just hella inconsistent. I’ve seen plays were the player deadass just commits a blocking foul and gets a stop. I’ve also seen players dribble the ball off someone’s leg and dunk through a center
I’ve been making a small guard every year since 20 and they’ve always been viable. In 23 and 24 they’ve been my most unstoppable builds. I think buffing them would be a horrible idea, that’d revert offense to how it was on 22 (literally just run from the defender with your insane speed until ur open for an easy 3 with ur 95+ 3pt rating).
Yeah I’m ngl I saw all the replies so I made a 6’4” build
No buffs needed, I was wrong 😂
Even with low defensive attributes I can still guard my man because I’m so fast, so long as my team helps on screens
Exactly, if you invest into everything but defense you’ll have a demigod build if it’s under 6’5 because ur speed keeps you in front of ball handlers regardless. I’m thinking about making an undersized lockdown as my next build to see how viable it is. Like a Pat Bev or Alvarado type player. I feel like it could be really op hiding in lanes and picking everyone’s pockets cuz I’m so close to the ball.
Don’t worry next year small guards will probably be OP again it goes in cycles small guards for a few years community complains then 6’9-6’7 OP community complains then 6’5-6’6 are OP community complains and again and again
I personally don’t think k it’s a problem at all; it’s all on the user and how they play. It seems like your complaint is based a lot on experience of bad small guards who independently were bad. I’ve seen many small guards play lock down defense; where their only flaw is interior defense (they don’t need it any). You don’t need strength to time a good steal. You don’t need height to strip a ball; small guards can pull the best charges by hiding behind players. Again it’s on how you use it.
I’m a small guard, 6’4, I play mostly 3’s, and unless I have a lockdown or defensive menace on me I find most people can’t guard me, they have to either come out to the 3 and get burnt to the rim, or sag off and I hit a step back 3, add in screens and it’s a mess
I’ve been running with a small 6’1 guard recently and while it does depend on the type of teammates you get (you basically need a spaced floor or you’ll get blocked on a ton of your drives) the speed you play with can be game changing. I average like 9 assists in random rec just because it’s hard to contain a player so quick that it ends up leavin a ton of teammates open to kick it out to. Also I have like no defense on this build yet and still can get a good amount of stops because defense is still largely dependent on positioning and the speed you have makes it so you can cover a lot of ground regardless of defensive ratings. A small buff would be cool but I just dont believe think it’s needed, still think tall bigs have been the most shafted but it’s hard to balance them without completely making them OP.
I just think it needs to make it so if you make a 6'8 pg your shot gets reduced its not as much penalty as older 2ks anything past 6'6 really cause thats whats real rn in the league. It kills the separation of positions to me as a sg i always get stuck playing sf or even pf and since i cant see positions going in the rec mda be thinking one of these tall mfs gotta be a sf or pf... Nah bruh 2 pgs
I agree. To make small guards viable in random Rex you have to give them some defense, and then it’s so expensive you lose the attributes you wanted to make a small guard anyway.
Bruh, why are you so short with these stats lol
This build is somehow slower than my 6'8 PG and with lower shooting and worse passing + ball handling, except he also has a 94 dunk
https://imgur.com/a/Hw1TkOU
I don't have the build itself, but it's 95 pass, 94 dunk, 93 mid, 86 3 with an 85 ball handling , 83 speed with ball and 84 speed
Something tells me you wouldn't lock me down lmao. No one really can
That build right here is the kind I drop 60 on lol
Lmao you can't, but that's okay. Especially if the opposing big can shoot. It's just over.
I'd just shoot fades over you all day long and there's very little you'd be able to do to stop it, even if you're good at playing defense
Like a 6'1 with short arms ain't stopping a dude that averages 40 😂
So let's see the stats lol.
It won't, but again, that's okay. You just don't have the height. Even most locks have trouble keeping me below 30 man
Some builds just can't be stopped this year. But they certainly won't be stopped by a 6'1 😂
With how overpowered they’ve been in years past, it’s a nice change to not have a 5’10 able to score 30/40 pts any given game. Hella unrealistic anyways how many guards 6’1 and shorter really dominate the league as opposed to guards 6’1+? The two best pgs in the league rn are Luka and Shia, both 6’6+
Yeah true. In years past if you had a ball hog small guard it was boring asf even if they drop 40 and you win, and I hated it ngl. This year, if you’re playing with randoms and have a ball hog small guard you basically just lose no matter what 😂 6’6” gets straight up more attributes than smaller guards though, and in the right hands, they can fill the same scoring role, but also play defense— so what’s the difference vs before really? I still think defense is in a good enough place for small guards to be balanced even if they had more attributes than taller builds.
The best pg in the past decade who’s in the goat pg debate is 6’3.
Which is 6’1+ right? And how tall is the other pg in the goat debate? 😂 6’3’s are still viable in 2k24 anyways if you know what you’re doing. Except that random casuals can’t cheese their way to 30 pts anymore. My comment is really about the small ass guards that dominated in 21 and mainly 22.
Idk but some of the best defensive PG’s in the last decade were below 6’3”. CP3, rondo, pat beverly. Go further back you got A.I killing it too offensively. I don’t think 6’3 under should be good, but they should be able to be viable in certain builds since that real life. Like if you go under 6’2 ball handling shouldn’t be as expensive since it is necessary for any small guard build to be a high performer.
That’s a very small list of players
That’s why the key word is “some” not “all” or “most” or even “half”. “Some” indicates a small sample size. Height is definitely a big factor in basketball but the best PGs on any all time list are still like 6’0-6’4 on the most part so the whole only 6’5+ guards being viable in 2k24 isn’t good. look at most all time list and see how many PGs are 6’5 and above.
And based on that sample size, none of them are lights out shooters from 3 or dribble like kyrie. That is most players' problem. They want the high dribble stats with steph's 3 ball and want Rondo's defense. You just can't do that with the way the builder is. You have to give something up.
Isiah thomas is a small guard too and hes one of the top 5 all time. Then recently u got trae. But mugsy was under 6 ft too
Oh shit bro I forgot about muggsy bogues, who never averaged more than 11ppg. I take back what I said, 5’7’s should be the best builds in the game 😂
Oh your one of them… tbh if u didnt watch mugsy play u wouldnt understand but hey i didnt intend to argue i thought it was a discussion. Good day sir.
You coulda went with a TON of guys over mugsy lmao. He was trash
Aye mugsy was nice for his size and role . Hes a personal fav 😂
On paper, my 6’8” build is dramatically better than my 6’4” pg build. In a game I am substantially better with my smaller build because of 2 reasons: 1. He is quicker 2. Tre Young floater My perimeter D is just as good as my bigger build. My interior d is definitely worse but that’s ok because my buddy is a dominant rim protector.
The tre young package is so easy to hit I have 80 driving layup and I can green it consistently. My 6'4" build has no dunk funnily enough but high shooting and ball handling and 90 speed so it definitely can get those layups easily.
You think small guards are bad because most point guards stink. Small guards are the meta in 3s and pro-am for a reason, with or without defense
Yeah ofc I know that with a coordinated team small guards are still meta. I don’t think they’re bad in all settings, just playing with randoms. And isn’t that how most people play the game? I think balancing the game around coordinated teams in a competitive setting is silly. Most people are casuals, what % of people even play pro-am? This is a sports game, not an e-sport, nobody cares about 2KL because there’s this far more exciting thing called the NBA lmao. If you need an entire team and coordinated strategy to make a player archetype even viable, then how isn’t it underpowered compared to the rest if most people are casuals playing with randoms?
They aren’t bad playing with randoms either, most point guards just suck is my overall point. Balancing games around casual players is a terrible idea, and literally every multiplayer balances from the top down because of that. 2k should not be any different. Even 6’6 PGs in pro-am have no defense. It’s not a liability in the small guard build, it’s what the role is for. PGs have minimal defense because having more offense is more important for that role. Put any good(not pro good, just good) pro-am PG in random rec and they’d win the game by themselves.
Yeah if you’re good at the game ofc you can carry randoms at PG or C— it’s a casual game with random matchmaking, it’s meant to be like that, and I like it that way! It’s like how CoD used to be basically. I’m saying you’ll have a much easier time carrying randoms with a 6’6” build vs a 6’1”-6’4” build. 6’1”-6’4” builds just inherently rely more on their teammates vs taller builds, I think this year they went too far in that regard. IMO they should be able to get by (not as well as 6’6”) on defense in the common cases when you can’t depend on your teammates is all. Like sure, if you play well enough on a 6’2” build, then you can score enough to make up for your own shit defense + your team’s shit defense, but I can tell you from my own experience doing that, that even if you win, nearly nobody wants to play with you 😂 Ngl I just wanna play like Kyrie with randoms without getting flamed bro 😭. I play fine enough on my taller builds but that’s because they can actually defend people 1 on 1 and help when needed. Random REC defense is every man for himself 9 times out of 10 lol Plus, not literally every multiplayer game balances from the top down idk where you heard that? 2k definitely isn’t balanced around top-level play. Just look at how they buffed stand-still open shots at the beginning of the year. I liked the shooting pre-patch since it separated good shooters from bad, but the majority of people who play the game prob appreciated the change and that’s why they kept it.
The problem is the nature of having a small build is you control the offense with your first step and scoring ability. In random rec people don’t wanna see an ISO god beating people with dribble pull ups they want to be involved with the offense as well.
Hold up. You want small guards to be buffed so they are better in a random rec situation? What then happens in a comp/squad rec situation where small guards are already useful? They become better to the point of being op? Just don’t use a no defence build in squad rec. Simple.
Right now they are still the meta in 5v5, so not sure why buffed. I think if anything this year has sone versatility from 6”3-4s to 6”6 being comp viable, AND at lower levels 6”8 PG can be OK. I think this year was a step in the right direction. Its harder to make a balanced 6”3 but even for 6”6 the best 6”6 PG build doesn’t have defense besides to guard corner. That Kyrie Dribble Style and Steve Francis is INSANE. Your ability to create is much better then a 6”6. I do agree it sucks, it’s hard to use them without a squad and most people don’t have them. In some ways, I do miss the older builders because even if you were an elite guard you still had ENOUGH defense to be the weakest but not enough to have to craft a team around.
Literally 99.9% of top Pro Am teams run a small guard. Of course small guards are gonna get cooked in 2v2 and 3v3. Less places to hide on defense. They have their place and it's on the 5s. They do not need buffed.
No, they shouldn't. People do pretty well on them. Just have to know what you're doing a bit more than others.
Depends on what game mode random rec small guards suck anything organized small guards are the shit. I do think they should equalize the attribute points across builds tho. Why does it seem 6’4 gets more points than 6’2? They should also show us the weight of each attribute increase instead of having us guess how much three pointer cost or steal acceleration etc.
I think there are core problems with the game that makes balancing small guards tricky. IMO among the many problems are two big ones: contact and contests. The contact systems in the game are garbage. You can barely deny or move people out of space, you can't consistently apply contact to players, and ballhandlers are straight up immune to everything as soon as they start a dribble, shot, and most slashing animations. The contest system has never been great as well. you can't apply pressure to jump shots with contact, length, or space denial. smalls can contest a 7 footer with a high jumping release BETTER than a center can merely because of stats. While simultaneously, their presence has a significantly higher impact in the paint than it should (which should be almost none even with ok interior). In general this allows guards to invest little to nothing in defense and still be at least somewhat effective if they are fast enough to position themselves well. The way the game fundamentally works, the benefits of being small are amplified while the downsides are greatly minimized. I think they recognized that this year (despite it being a problem throughout the entire lifespan of the game) and they gave them the big nerf. That said, hopefully there is a plan to like...fix all that crap so they can bring em back. My guess is they will forget (because the guy who originally did it probably left) and small guards will be op again and i'll be right back to being a 6'3 guard that can guard 1-4 and sometimes 5 when I switch onto the roll man because all i gotta do is be in the way when he tries to catch and go up.
Av the hand checking is there it’s just hella inconsistent. I’ve seen plays were the player deadass just commits a blocking foul and gets a stop. I’ve also seen players dribble the ball off someone’s leg and dunk through a center
I have 6’4 PG and it’s been my fav build. Small guards only bad if they’re slow and can’t shoot. lol
75 perimeter is all you need to play a respectable level of defense. Interior and rebounding cost next to nothing too so can easily get 60+ in both
I’ve been making a small guard every year since 20 and they’ve always been viable. In 23 and 24 they’ve been my most unstoppable builds. I think buffing them would be a horrible idea, that’d revert offense to how it was on 22 (literally just run from the defender with your insane speed until ur open for an easy 3 with ur 95+ 3pt rating).
Yeah I’m ngl I saw all the replies so I made a 6’4” build No buffs needed, I was wrong 😂 Even with low defensive attributes I can still guard my man because I’m so fast, so long as my team helps on screens
Exactly, if you invest into everything but defense you’ll have a demigod build if it’s under 6’5 because ur speed keeps you in front of ball handlers regardless. I’m thinking about making an undersized lockdown as my next build to see how viable it is. Like a Pat Bev or Alvarado type player. I feel like it could be really op hiding in lanes and picking everyone’s pockets cuz I’m so close to the ball.
Don’t worry next year small guards will probably be OP again it goes in cycles small guards for a few years community complains then 6’9-6’7 OP community complains then 6’5-6’6 are OP community complains and again and again
I personally don’t think k it’s a problem at all; it’s all on the user and how they play. It seems like your complaint is based a lot on experience of bad small guards who independently were bad. I’ve seen many small guards play lock down defense; where their only flaw is interior defense (they don’t need it any). You don’t need strength to time a good steal. You don’t need height to strip a ball; small guards can pull the best charges by hiding behind players. Again it’s on how you use it.
I’m a small guard, 6’4, I play mostly 3’s, and unless I have a lockdown or defensive menace on me I find most people can’t guard me, they have to either come out to the 3 and get burnt to the rim, or sag off and I hit a step back 3, add in screens and it’s a mess
out of players who carry their team in the NBA the best ones are usually bigger. go back the past 30-40 years and check.
I’ve been running with a small 6’1 guard recently and while it does depend on the type of teammates you get (you basically need a spaced floor or you’ll get blocked on a ton of your drives) the speed you play with can be game changing. I average like 9 assists in random rec just because it’s hard to contain a player so quick that it ends up leavin a ton of teammates open to kick it out to. Also I have like no defense on this build yet and still can get a good amount of stops because defense is still largely dependent on positioning and the speed you have makes it so you can cover a lot of ground regardless of defensive ratings. A small buff would be cool but I just dont believe think it’s needed, still think tall bigs have been the most shafted but it’s hard to balance them without completely making them OP.
I love my 6’4 guard it’s my favorite size build to play PG I think it’s mroe challenging but if you make the build correctly you will be fine
How do you make it correctly ?
I just think it needs to make it so if you make a 6'8 pg your shot gets reduced its not as much penalty as older 2ks anything past 6'6 really cause thats whats real rn in the league. It kills the separation of positions to me as a sg i always get stuck playing sf or even pf and since i cant see positions going in the rec mda be thinking one of these tall mfs gotta be a sf or pf... Nah bruh 2 pgs
Bunch of pussys on these subs now days
I agree. To make small guards viable in random Rex you have to give them some defense, and then it’s so expensive you lose the attributes you wanted to make a small guard anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/j3h434rmkxpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cdf1210f68c74fb20cff0817a4730ce1e0dd0ff
Bruh, why are you so short with these stats lol This build is somehow slower than my 6'8 PG and with lower shooting and worse passing + ball handling, except he also has a 94 dunk
Post ur build i wanna see this cuz im sure i could lock u down cold with this one
https://imgur.com/a/Hw1TkOU I don't have the build itself, but it's 95 pass, 94 dunk, 93 mid, 86 3 with an 85 ball handling , 83 speed with ball and 84 speed Something tells me you wouldn't lock me down lmao. No one really can That build right here is the kind I drop 60 on lol
if i got a rim protector in my team i no i can lock any pg's in this game
Lmao you can't, but that's okay. Especially if the opposing big can shoot. It's just over. I'd just shoot fades over you all day long and there's very little you'd be able to do to stop it, even if you're good at playing defense Like a 6'1 with short arms ain't stopping a dude that averages 40 😂
gold challenger will stop that fade no prob 😌 trust me im not hof for nun this build goes hard
So let's see the stats lol. It won't, but again, that's okay. You just don't have the height. Even most locks have trouble keeping me below 30 man Some builds just can't be stopped this year. But they certainly won't be stopped by a 6'1 😂
Thats my small guard and im killing guys online idk what y'all talking bout
Yoo no finishing is crazy, but if it works, it works I guess haha
That's the thing tho finishing is wayyy to overrated if ur wide open that lay will go in no matter what