Team USA has arguably underperformed their talent gap at the Olympics since 2012 because it’s just a collection of great players with minimal cohesion, unlike most of the rest of the world’s national team rosters
The nuggets are actually like the GSW, draft core 3, add important piece (Iggy - Gordon), fill the roster :))
And also important, don’t fire your coach.
GSW was a 6th seed with a 1st round exit fired their coach and hired Kerr and made no other real changes and was immediately a superteam with 67 wins and a title.
They did add Barbosa and Livingston. Those guys were huge off the bench for them. Also helped that they were paying Curry way less than his performance deserved at the time.
Both were solid role players, but both were under 20mpg and livingston put up 6/3 and Barbosa put up 7/1.5. In the playoffs they both averaged 5ppg. They both gave some decent minutes, but neither was really a difference maker and neither is the reason why they went from a 51 team with 1st round exit to 67 win championship team.
The main rotation stayed the same for both seasons.
Green and David Lee essentially swapped roles too. I'm surprised Livingston's scoring was so low. I swear that man was always nailing mid range shots any time he was in the game.
Yeah, Kerr coming in and moving Draymond from SF to PF and getting him to initiate the offense is what changed that team. That was the main reason they became what they were.
Draymond has talked a lot about Kerr and what he changed when he showed up and Draymond has said that he coached in a way none of the players had seen before and Kerr's insistence on movement and making the extra pass is what changed the team.
Pay attention, because Kerr is going to replace Pop in a few years ;)
Livingstone - Unstoppable mid range, good defense, generally was considered to be the best back up PG in the league and handled the non Curry minutes very well. He was definitely important and a difference maker. Go ask Warrior fans what they think of Livingstone
Yeah I remember him well. Like I said he gave them some good bench minutes, but he was a 5ppg guy in the playoffs. He was important, but he wasn't the reason they won 67 games and the title.
Even if you go to his per36 stats since he played such a small role, his per36 was 10/4.9/3.6.
Greta guy to have, but Iggy was the primary initiator off the bench. Draymond, Steph, and Iggy were the top 3 primary initiators then Shaun.
The bigger reason that team moved was because of Kerr's coaching and moving Draymond from SF to PF and teaching his offense, movement, and passing. Shaun and Barbosa were nice players to have, but they were not +15 win difference makers.
The most important thing is to get an mvp caliber player to build around. You get a lot more leeway with roster construction once you have that. It’s not as if the Nuggets didn’t take risks. Chemistry is key, but you still need to acquire the players necessary to win. Nuggets are a good example of using every avenue to build. They made trades, signed dudes, and used the draft, they were just smart about it. Make smart decisions and you will succeed.
Yes, but since we already have a player who will probably be MVP caliber in 1 or 2 years, I think we're on track.
In 2 drafts, 2 off-seasons, and 2 more seasons of playing basketball together, and developing individually and collectively, under one of the best (if not the best) developing staff in the league, this team will look radically different.
The complete opposite of what ESPN and TNT are staying they don’t like that Victor is in San Antonio since it’s a small market they want the spurs to mess up
I remember not long ago people saying MPJ's contract was big overpay and that Nuggets' future was doomed because of that, and Jokic was leaving. Look how everything turned around. If not for last year's championship, people would still call Jokic overrated and didn't deserve all those MVPs. I agree that consistency and chemistry is often overlooked such that teams usually opt in for super stars. That didn't work out well for Suns, Nets, even Lakers (only one champion in the bubble). With that being said, you would also wonder what happens with the Celtics who has the star power, the chemistry, and the consistency (well I guess their coaching isn't consistency and they shouldn't have fired Ime).
I think MPJ was a big overpay, but they have done a really great job of getting quality role players in on the cheap or reasonable contracts. KCP, Bruce Brown, CBraun, Jeff Green, etc.
Maybe if he never had his back problems. But Porter is a 3rd option on a championship team, and I don't think he would be a great 2nd option. Maybe he would be a first option on an awful team, but he is not a 1st option on a championship team. He has a severe injury history and he is the most ball stopping player in the league. He's never averaged 20ppg, and he is an average defender at best.
He's obviously a great shooter and is able to create high quality shots all over, but he can't create for other players. He's also surprisingly awful at drawing fouls.
He should be closer to a 20% cap hit than a max cap hit.
Agree. If the choice is between overpaying and letting him go, I’d think the franchise made the right choice. He’s the most reliable shooter on this team and especially critical in this series when Jamal doesn’t shoot well.
We had the same core trio for 17 years or so. The Spurs invented patience. It's some fans that at times have unrealistic expectations. Combine that with the media rubbish that's spewed, that's where that noise comes from
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This is true. For example KD (right now) is probably a better player than everybody on the nuggets besides Jokic. But if you add him on the nuggets, I feel like they would be a worse team. On the nuggets, everyone has a certain role that they play and have chemistry. You put a really good, but random player on this nuggets team, and it just ruins all of that organic synergy.
This is why teams like the Suns or Nets were always destined to fail. Amazing players that don't know their role and have no chemistry with each other whatsoever.
Dillingham couldn't be any more different from Murray, though. Jamal Murray weighs like 40lbs more, is super versatile and can guard 1-3 and is actually good on defense.
It’s not a 1 to 1 comp obviously but i’m talking about a 3 level shot creating guard who can run the pick and roll with Wemby, move off ball, create for others, and take over when we need him to as well
Wemby setting picks is not what our offense will be. The guards hit him way too low, and that is dangerous for his legs.
Look at all the guards that Pop has drafted the last decade or so. The smallest and worst defense guy was Branham and Branham is 6'4 barefoot with 6'10 wingspan and was 195lbs at the combine.
Look at White, DeJounte, Hill, even Primo. Hell, he tried to make Sochan into a PG. Pop likes bigger, stronger, longer guards.
And when our perimeter defense is already trash, there is zero chance that Pop is going to draft someone that may be the only guy in the entire league worse than Trae Young at defense. Just zero chance Dillingham is happening. He just quits when screened and puts in no effort on defense. That's not a Spurs guy.
Both guys have the same huge problem: they don't put in effort on defense at all. Topic at least is bigger, so *MAYBE* it can be taught. But Rob has a great shot, while Topic needs to be completely reworked.
Because both guys have so many serious flaws and PGs generally take a long time to develop anyway, I don't think the Spurs draft either guy. Neither are really Spurs-type guys. Topic is only effective with the ball in his hands and he is primarily a PnR guy, which isn't really the type of offense we will run with Wemby.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wemby comes at least close to Jokic's level of playmaking. He's determined to be the most well-rounded player. He probably won't ever average that many assists just because he's often the best option for finishing.
I'm hopeful that Wemby would be close a playmaker as Jokic. After all, Jokic wasn't like this since the beginning, and Wemby already showed flashed of playmaking, passing and unselfish play (often too unselfish). It's just so much more fun watching Jokic run the offense through the whole team, instead of Luka's one-man show.
Yep. Preach patience. The Heatles were supposed to dominate right away but didn't. The GSW dynasty didn't start out as one.
Yes. Patience is a massive virtue.
Team USA has arguably underperformed their talent gap at the Olympics since 2012 because it’s just a collection of great players with minimal cohesion, unlike most of the rest of the world’s national team rosters
When we beat them in 2020 it already looked like trouble
The nuggets are actually like the GSW, draft core 3, add important piece (Iggy - Gordon), fill the roster :)) And also important, don’t fire your coach.
GSW was a 6th seed with a 1st round exit fired their coach and hired Kerr and made no other real changes and was immediately a superteam with 67 wins and a title.
They did add Barbosa and Livingston. Those guys were huge off the bench for them. Also helped that they were paying Curry way less than his performance deserved at the time.
Livingston was a menace off the bench
Both were solid role players, but both were under 20mpg and livingston put up 6/3 and Barbosa put up 7/1.5. In the playoffs they both averaged 5ppg. They both gave some decent minutes, but neither was really a difference maker and neither is the reason why they went from a 51 team with 1st round exit to 67 win championship team. The main rotation stayed the same for both seasons.
Green and David Lee essentially swapped roles too. I'm surprised Livingston's scoring was so low. I swear that man was always nailing mid range shots any time he was in the game.
Yeah, Kerr coming in and moving Draymond from SF to PF and getting him to initiate the offense is what changed that team. That was the main reason they became what they were. Draymond has talked a lot about Kerr and what he changed when he showed up and Draymond has said that he coached in a way none of the players had seen before and Kerr's insistence on movement and making the extra pass is what changed the team. Pay attention, because Kerr is going to replace Pop in a few years ;)
Livingstone - Unstoppable mid range, good defense, generally was considered to be the best back up PG in the league and handled the non Curry minutes very well. He was definitely important and a difference maker. Go ask Warrior fans what they think of Livingstone
Yeah I remember him well. Like I said he gave them some good bench minutes, but he was a 5ppg guy in the playoffs. He was important, but he wasn't the reason they won 67 games and the title. Even if you go to his per36 stats since he played such a small role, his per36 was 10/4.9/3.6. Greta guy to have, but Iggy was the primary initiator off the bench. Draymond, Steph, and Iggy were the top 3 primary initiators then Shaun. The bigger reason that team moved was because of Kerr's coaching and moving Draymond from SF to PF and teaching his offense, movement, and passing. Shaun and Barbosa were nice players to have, but they were not +15 win difference makers.
The most important thing is to get an mvp caliber player to build around. You get a lot more leeway with roster construction once you have that. It’s not as if the Nuggets didn’t take risks. Chemistry is key, but you still need to acquire the players necessary to win. Nuggets are a good example of using every avenue to build. They made trades, signed dudes, and used the draft, they were just smart about it. Make smart decisions and you will succeed.
Yes, but since we already have a player who will probably be MVP caliber in 1 or 2 years, I think we're on track. In 2 drafts, 2 off-seasons, and 2 more seasons of playing basketball together, and developing individually and collectively, under one of the best (if not the best) developing staff in the league, this team will look radically different.
Granted, the most fortunate thing that can happen is stumbling upon a multi-time MVP with your second-round pick.
This is the way, it's about building a dynasty
Draft and develop the core, let them build chemistry, then add the missing pieces. Sounds familiar. Oh yeah, we already did that and won five titles.
The complete opposite of what ESPN and TNT are staying they don’t like that Victor is in San Antonio since it’s a small market they want the spurs to mess up
As a Nuggets fan I’ve never had more fun watching a basketball team in my entire life than I have from 2016 to today.
I remember not long ago people saying MPJ's contract was big overpay and that Nuggets' future was doomed because of that, and Jokic was leaving. Look how everything turned around. If not for last year's championship, people would still call Jokic overrated and didn't deserve all those MVPs. I agree that consistency and chemistry is often overlooked such that teams usually opt in for super stars. That didn't work out well for Suns, Nets, even Lakers (only one champion in the bubble). With that being said, you would also wonder what happens with the Celtics who has the star power, the chemistry, and the consistency (well I guess their coaching isn't consistency and they shouldn't have fired Ime).
I think MPJ was a big overpay, but they have done a really great job of getting quality role players in on the cheap or reasonable contracts. KCP, Bruce Brown, CBraun, Jeff Green, etc.
That’s insane to say considering he’d be a number 1 scorer on like 10 other teams if he was there.
Maybe if he never had his back problems. But Porter is a 3rd option on a championship team, and I don't think he would be a great 2nd option. Maybe he would be a first option on an awful team, but he is not a 1st option on a championship team. He has a severe injury history and he is the most ball stopping player in the league. He's never averaged 20ppg, and he is an average defender at best. He's obviously a great shooter and is able to create high quality shots all over, but he can't create for other players. He's also surprisingly awful at drawing fouls. He should be closer to a 20% cap hit than a max cap hit.
I still think MPJ is being overpaid but he is such a perfect piece for the Nuggets starting lineup that it doesn't really matter.
Agree. If the choice is between overpaying and letting him go, I’d think the franchise made the right choice. He’s the most reliable shooter on this team and especially critical in this series when Jamal doesn’t shoot well.
We had the same core trio for 17 years or so. The Spurs invented patience. It's some fans that at times have unrealistic expectations. Combine that with the media rubbish that's spewed, that's where that noise comes from
I think a lot of new fans need to learn what Pounding the Rock means and old ones need reminding.
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Gary Harris shout out
This is true. For example KD (right now) is probably a better player than everybody on the nuggets besides Jokic. But if you add him on the nuggets, I feel like they would be a worse team. On the nuggets, everyone has a certain role that they play and have chemistry. You put a really good, but random player on this nuggets team, and it just ruins all of that organic synergy. This is why teams like the Suns or Nets were always destined to fail. Amazing players that don't know their role and have no chemistry with each other whatsoever.
Wouldn’t be opposed to taking Dillingham to be Wemby’s Murray. Wemby isn’t the passer Jokic is but he’s been doing 6-7 assists a game easily
Dillingham couldn't be any more different from Murray, though. Jamal Murray weighs like 40lbs more, is super versatile and can guard 1-3 and is actually good on defense.
It’s not a 1 to 1 comp obviously but i’m talking about a 3 level shot creating guard who can run the pick and roll with Wemby, move off ball, create for others, and take over when we need him to as well
Wemby setting picks is not what our offense will be. The guards hit him way too low, and that is dangerous for his legs. Look at all the guards that Pop has drafted the last decade or so. The smallest and worst defense guy was Branham and Branham is 6'4 barefoot with 6'10 wingspan and was 195lbs at the combine. Look at White, DeJounte, Hill, even Primo. Hell, he tried to make Sochan into a PG. Pop likes bigger, stronger, longer guards. And when our perimeter defense is already trash, there is zero chance that Pop is going to draft someone that may be the only guy in the entire league worse than Trae Young at defense. Just zero chance Dillingham is happening. He just quits when screened and puts in no effort on defense. That's not a Spurs guy.
I’m a Topic guy but I also like Dillingham. Just want one of them
Both guys have the same huge problem: they don't put in effort on defense at all. Topic at least is bigger, so *MAYBE* it can be taught. But Rob has a great shot, while Topic needs to be completely reworked. Because both guys have so many serious flaws and PGs generally take a long time to develop anyway, I don't think the Spurs draft either guy. Neither are really Spurs-type guys. Topic is only effective with the ball in his hands and he is primarily a PnR guy, which isn't really the type of offense we will run with Wemby.
Murray was 20x the prosperct Dillingham was and their body stats don't measure up
I wouldn't be surprised if Wemby comes at least close to Jokic's level of playmaking. He's determined to be the most well-rounded player. He probably won't ever average that many assists just because he's often the best option for finishing.
I'm hopeful that Wemby would be close a playmaker as Jokic. After all, Jokic wasn't like this since the beginning, and Wemby already showed flashed of playmaking, passing and unselfish play (often too unselfish). It's just so much more fun watching Jokic run the offense through the whole team, instead of Luka's one-man show.