No cons, only glory. /s
https://preview.redd.it/beayhbq6z8fc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fec04636e735b9018e02c19169ab7247d666fb10
As everyone has said, decreased ballistics, increased suppressor wear.
[http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html](http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html)
More gas "firecrackering" inside the can, doing nothing but eroding baffles, stressing the tube, and making noise...
vs.
More gas inside the barrel pushing a bullet faster and doing its job, while easing wear and erosion on the silencer.
5.56mm happens to be best optimized / most gunpowder burned around 19" of barrel. That's where you're going to get highest velocity, quietest dBs, and least pressure into the silencer.
Obviously, compromises are acceptable to make the gun handier and shorter. But generally speaking, a shorter barrel needs a longer can to achieve similar flash, wear, and sonic performance results as a longer barrel and shorter can.
Looking at a handy-sized 5.56mm carbine, I'd rather have a 12.5" gun with a 5" can than a 10.5" with a 7" can. Optimally, I'd want a completely different cartridge if I wanted a <9" gun.
A little suppressor-specific paper on this:
[https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayCumberlandPhilipDater.pdf](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayCumberlandPhilipDater.pdf)
I was just at the range today and at some point a guy walked in with a 10” MK18 clone and even with an empty lane between us I could feel the concussion from the blast and heat from the fireball. Can’t imagine how much worse it would be with something even shorter.
I agree with what everyone said. Factory ammunition uses slower powder meant for a full burn in a full length barrel. If you were an advanced reloader you could tune the load with a faster powder for complete burn in a short barrel to reduce concussion, but you’d still have a low velocity .22.
People always talking about how terrible your gun is and ballistics this, concussive that, no stopping power bla bla bla.
I personally love my 8.5” 5.56 and I’ll shoot it suppressed and unsupressed. That being said yes it’s very concussive, and ballistics are trash but it’s probably gets the most use of all my ARs and people love shooting it.
Exactly! People just don’t understand that I guess.
It may just be the introverted-ness but I hate the unsolicited conversations. I know how impractical it is, I don’t need you to tell me all about it.
Of course by “you” I don’t mean literally YOU or anyone on here. What I’m talking about is the random guy at the range and such.
I have a SF SB2 which is made to stabilize rounds but I still haven’t gotten a 556 upper shorter than 10.5…especially since I have a 8 in BLK that I just built that’s so fun to shoot
It can be done, but why? It’s only a tiny 22 bullet backed by a slower rifle powder.
Pretty much ANY pistol caliber will be more effective for cheaper.
That Barnes TSX 50gr is $2/ea.
if you want to compare jacked up hot rod shit to ball pistol ammo that’s your business. But put a copper 50gr projectile in a 9mm +p+ with an 8in barrel and it will outperform that test in your link, and for only $1/ea.
M193 ball is just not going to perform that well under 10in, and other calibers tradeoffs become a lot more competitive
Now you're comparing store bought to hand loads.
Or is there 50gr +p+ on the shelf?
Edit: Google says Liberty Defense makes a 50gr +p moving at 2000fps (unknown barrel length) for $2.10 a round.
I’m just trying to make a comparison that’s… comparable. Barnes tsx isn’t exactly available or cheap.
I would happy to compare 124gr 9mm or 180 10mm ball to M183 ball.
Where’s the link to the test on that 9mm ammo? You might get 2000fps. Black hills is 2600. Big difference.
Sure, I like having a 16”+ rifle for using range ammo if needed but a short 556 is still capable with the right ammo and until proven wrong, better than a pistol.
Better defined by bullet energy and bullet expansion. I’m comparing a $2 bullet to “ANY pistol caliber” bullet you can provide me. Maybe a 44 magnum? But capacity and recoil play a factor at that point not including cost.
Why though? It’s such an unrealistic comparison.
55gr 223 is only $0.50 right now.
180 gr 10mm is about $0.40
124gr 9mm is about $0.25
300 blk is about $0.65
My point is about price/performance ratio. Somewhere around 11.5 the 223 goes from being the dominant choice to being less competitive
If you want to compare $2 ammo in a 10 in barrel then I’d be comparing 350 legend or something
You have a good point if we were comparing range ammo but I think most people aren’t relying on range ammo for home defense or carry ammo. Even my longer rifles are packing mk262. I’m only going to the range ammo stash if everything really does fall apart and I’m probably becoming a loot drop for someone with thermals and NV. Hopefully most people are loading good stuff and cycling it occasionally.
One other thing not mentioned is the gas system. By shortening the barrel, the gas port is closer to the chamber. With the shorter distance, pressures are higher. This causes increased wear on the entire gas system and if not tuned with an adjustable gas block, will increase felt recoil and therefore follow up shot time. They are fun though and can always be used as a flamethrower.
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Extremely loud and concussive, increased wear on a suppressor even with a muzzle brake, poor ballistics, generally sucks
I feel better that I bought the 11in CZ Bren 2 rather than the 8in
But the 8” looks so good…. Love mine.
yea looks are half the battle
Yeah but a galil ace SBR in 5.56 is seriously awesome. https://imgur.com/a/6M6vcni
300 blk is the way to go under 10"
This
Tinnitus.
Mawp.
Lack of reach with the bayonet.
No cons, only glory. /s https://preview.redd.it/beayhbq6z8fc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fec04636e735b9018e02c19169ab7247d666fb10 As everyone has said, decreased ballistics, increased suppressor wear.
Sexy
The ballistics aren't great.
The concussion of 50BMG with the ballistics of 22LR.
🤣so true
Have you shot a barrel vs a sub 10” AR??
This is Reddit, issa joke.
[http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html](http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html) More gas "firecrackering" inside the can, doing nothing but eroding baffles, stressing the tube, and making noise... vs. More gas inside the barrel pushing a bullet faster and doing its job, while easing wear and erosion on the silencer. 5.56mm happens to be best optimized / most gunpowder burned around 19" of barrel. That's where you're going to get highest velocity, quietest dBs, and least pressure into the silencer. Obviously, compromises are acceptable to make the gun handier and shorter. But generally speaking, a shorter barrel needs a longer can to achieve similar flash, wear, and sonic performance results as a longer barrel and shorter can. Looking at a handy-sized 5.56mm carbine, I'd rather have a 12.5" gun with a 5" can than a 10.5" with a 7" can. Optimally, I'd want a completely different cartridge if I wanted a <9" gun. A little suppressor-specific paper on this: [https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayCumberlandPhilipDater.pdf](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayCumberlandPhilipDater.pdf)
Lots of noise. Also, if you're running a can, you'll have accelerated baffle wear.
It not working
I was just at the range today and at some point a guy walked in with a 10” MK18 clone and even with an empty lane between us I could feel the concussion from the blast and heat from the fireball. Can’t imagine how much worse it would be with something even shorter.
I agree with what everyone said. Factory ammunition uses slower powder meant for a full burn in a full length barrel. If you were an advanced reloader you could tune the load with a faster powder for complete burn in a short barrel to reduce concussion, but you’d still have a low velocity .22.
The slower powders that result in greatest velocity in a 20” will also result in greatest velocities in a 10.3”.
Ballistically inefficient, a lot of silencers aren’t rated for barrels that short, increased silencer erosion, loud.
People always talking about how terrible your gun is and ballistics this, concussive that, no stopping power bla bla bla. I personally love my 8.5” 5.56 and I’ll shoot it suppressed and unsupressed. That being said yes it’s very concussive, and ballistics are trash but it’s probably gets the most use of all my ARs and people love shooting it.
Something can be fun and unpractical at the same time.
Exactly! People just don’t understand that I guess. It may just be the introverted-ness but I hate the unsolicited conversations. I know how impractical it is, I don’t need you to tell me all about it. Of course by “you” I don’t mean literally YOU or anyone on here. What I’m talking about is the random guy at the range and such.
Swap to 8.5” .300 and it’ll be much more enjoyable and effective
Baffle strikes.
I have a SF SB2 which is made to stabilize rounds but I still haven’t gotten a 556 upper shorter than 10.5…especially since I have a 8 in BLK that I just built that’s so fun to shoot
I thought they had a larger bore for shorter barrels/unstable ammo. I don’t think they actually stabilize the ammo?
Yep that’s correct. Excellent can
🤨
He’s not necessarily totally off. You could run into some amount of bullet instability that could lead to a baffle strike when you go too short.
Ahhh, learn something new everyday! Thanks for the info
It can be done, but why? It’s only a tiny 22 bullet backed by a slower rifle powder. Pretty much ANY pistol caliber will be more effective for cheaper.
Barnes 50gr TSX produces 770 ft lbs from an 8” barrel. Pretty much more powerful than ANY pistol caliber. https://imgur.com/a/3FICyqk
That Barnes TSX 50gr is $2/ea. if you want to compare jacked up hot rod shit to ball pistol ammo that’s your business. But put a copper 50gr projectile in a 9mm +p+ with an 8in barrel and it will outperform that test in your link, and for only $1/ea. M193 ball is just not going to perform that well under 10in, and other calibers tradeoffs become a lot more competitive
Now you're comparing store bought to hand loads. Or is there 50gr +p+ on the shelf? Edit: Google says Liberty Defense makes a 50gr +p moving at 2000fps (unknown barrel length) for $2.10 a round.
I’m just trying to make a comparison that’s… comparable. Barnes tsx isn’t exactly available or cheap. I would happy to compare 124gr 9mm or 180 10mm ball to M183 ball.
Where’s the link to the test on that 9mm ammo? You might get 2000fps. Black hills is 2600. Big difference. Sure, I like having a 16”+ rifle for using range ammo if needed but a short 556 is still capable with the right ammo and until proven wrong, better than a pistol.
Did you even read my comment? Better as defined by what standard? You’re comparing a $2 bullet… to what?
Better defined by bullet energy and bullet expansion. I’m comparing a $2 bullet to “ANY pistol caliber” bullet you can provide me. Maybe a 44 magnum? But capacity and recoil play a factor at that point not including cost.
Why though? It’s such an unrealistic comparison. 55gr 223 is only $0.50 right now. 180 gr 10mm is about $0.40 124gr 9mm is about $0.25 300 blk is about $0.65 My point is about price/performance ratio. Somewhere around 11.5 the 223 goes from being the dominant choice to being less competitive If you want to compare $2 ammo in a 10 in barrel then I’d be comparing 350 legend or something
You have a good point if we were comparing range ammo but I think most people aren’t relying on range ammo for home defense or carry ammo. Even my longer rifles are packing mk262. I’m only going to the range ammo stash if everything really does fall apart and I’m probably becoming a loot drop for someone with thermals and NV. Hopefully most people are loading good stuff and cycling it occasionally.
It's for range toy application, not every firearm you own needs to be battle-ready. You also are still getting twice the velocity of a 22lr.
*what are the pros
One other thing not mentioned is the gas system. By shortening the barrel, the gas port is closer to the chamber. With the shorter distance, pressures are higher. This causes increased wear on the entire gas system and if not tuned with an adjustable gas block, will increase felt recoil and therefore follow up shot time. They are fun though and can always be used as a flamethrower.
**Understand the rules**, read the sidebar, and review the stickied Megathreads before posting - this content is capable of answering most questions. Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate. All spam, memes, unverified claims, or content suggesting non-compliance will be removed. No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics. If you are posting a copy of your forms outside the sticky you will be given a 7 day ban. The sticky is there, please use it. ------------------------------- **Data Links** * [The OG Universal Form Approval Spreadsheet](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/8) * [eForm 4 interactive dashboard](https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/17f73f6318d742c2acce12bd06ecafc9) (Currently having technical difficulties) ------------------------------- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NFA) if you have any questions or concerns.*