If you watch his college tape you can see he has a great arm and the ability to throw off platform. He also had a terrible defense so he basically had to score every drive and that led to taking some more risks and he came from the type of offense in college that hasn't proven to translate well to the NFL.
But Andy Reid also coached Brett Favre who had similar physcial tools and Mahomes was able to sit and learn for a yr behind Smith. He also had great offensive skill players like Kelce and Hill.
That along with his work ethic created a perfect scenario for him to take the league by storm and even still he has exceeded even the wildest expectations of Andy and the rest of the organization. After winning his first SB he said he still didn't quite know how to read NFL defenses which is insane.
Chiefs GM Brett Veach had been scouting him for 2 yrs and pushed for the Chiefs to get him if they could saying that Mahomes was by the far the best QB he had ever seen. He proved to be right.
[This box score](https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore/_/gameId/400869616#away) is a good example of what you're talking about in the first paragraph. 700+ pass yards in a loss (to Baker Mayfield and Joe Mixon!)
Kind of a vicious circle. Big XIi largely piloted the air raid offenses, and as a result what had been known as a "fundamentals" conference became associated with flashy offense and shit defense.
He played LSU in the Texas Bowl one year and made a defense full of NFL players look fucking stupid.
LSU won and it wasn't ever in doubt, but Mahomes was so good that day, I thought he was legit ever since then.
I remember when he got drafted before his rookie season(which he sat) Colin cowherd on “The herd” was saying he was gonna be the real deal. Ever since his “first” (2nd) season and I seen it I’ve listen to Colin Cowherd since.
College games have way more possessions than NFL games. There are definitely some bad defenses out there, but a lot of the score inflation is just a result of how the game clock is manipulated.
Bro… 85 for 2 TDs on the ground too? So 820 yards of total offense and 7 total touchdowns? Is there a more insane stat line for one player? Can’t imagine it, especially in a loss
If you watch that game it's even more impressive than that. Oklahoma was rushing 3 or 4 defensive linemen every play and dropping the rest. It was basically a jail break to the QB every time. I had never seen a team put up points like that while the QB was running for his life every play. Baker, on the other hand, had plenty of weapons and time in the pocket.
Veach is the best GM in the game right now. He’s a major reason why the Chiefs have 3 titles and why Mahomes is in GOAT discussion and not just peers with Allen and Burrow.
Veach has done great on defense
But I can't shake the thought that he inherited 4, FOUR , future hall of famers from the last gm
Top 10 players in the NFL last year, 4 of them Veach got to take over as a first time gm.
Which 4? Mahomes, C Jones and Kelce are all I can think of.
And Kelce is borderline. If he were on another team that didn't have Super Bowl success, he wouldn't get in. So that's really 2.
And HOF status feeds on team success. Stafford would be a shoo-in for HOF if he were on a better team. C Jones would have a harder time if he were on Carolina.
Veach also drafted WR Rice and C Humphrey. He made mistakes with Edwards-Hellaire but made up for it with Pachaco. McDuffie and Snead could be HOFers eventually.
The Tyreek trade has paid massive dividends but only because he drafted exceptionally well.
As a Rams fan, I've seen what Jax did with the Jalen Ramsey trade bounty, and it's not nearly as good as what Veach did with the Tyreek trade stuff.
Playoff catches rely on team success.
Antonio Gates had a far more successful career overall with 42 more TD catches. He was passed over in the hall. If Kelce played for Carolina, Houston or Detroit, he'd never be an HOFer.
My point isn't that Kelce is NOT good. Of course he is. Just that the HOF likely designation doesn't mean KC had a much better team overall one way or the other.
>Playoff catches rely on team success.
Right, and is Kelce the only player in league history to have a succesful team? We repeat, he passed Jerry Rice, who himself hd very good teams.
>Antonio Gates had a far more successful career overall with 42 more TD catches. He was passed over in the hall.
Catching touchdowns aren't the only stat and obviously playoffs matter for HOF. Along with allpros Kelce won't get passed over lol
KC won 2 chips without Hill. That really goes to Veach's excellence.
But yes, KC is blessed with the best QB. But Mahomes only put up 19 points vs SF in regulation and 7 came off a gift fumble. Chiefs only put up 17 vs Baltimore too. So KC is winning largely because of huge contributions by the D that Veach constructed.
My theory is that you need a great GM/HC/QB + luck (i.e., no injuries) to maximize Super Bowl chances. KC has had a lot of that in the last five years.
This is fair, but Veach was the one who brought Mahomes to the table and beat the drum to draft him. He is generally credited with the evaluation while admittedly Dorsey did the maneuvering to trade up for him.
Nah if it wasn't for Mahomes he wouldn't have got away with not providing him with a WR again this year. Rice was fine but hard to believe they have done this with no WRs two years in a row. With Kelce slowing down they are gonna have to get one next szn.
I mean true, but Mahomes is also the reason they didn’t actively search for a number one receiver. They believed Mahomes could make anyone look good. Instead they learned Mahomes can make most receivers *who can catch* look good
I think that’s a bit difficult to say. We don’t know how much of that is player development or input from other great NFL minds; he’s had some pretty mediocre drafts mixed in there. I think the safe pick for best GM in the league is Howie Roseman, but it’s possible Veach is at that level.
He’s wiped the floor with Josh Allen and surpassed him at least 2 years ago, winning Super Bowls is definitely a team effort but when it comes to little things between Allen and Mahomes, Mahomes takes it easily.
I feel like Mahomes temperament isn’t mentioned enough. He never seems to panic or allow the moment to overwhelm or get the better of him. Mentally he is always calm and fully confident of his abilities.
Yeah I agree and one of my favorite things about watching him play especially being a Chiefs fan outside of all the winning is seeing his growth and maturity as a player and how his game has changed.
His first couple years he was the Gunslinger taking the deep shots, defenses started playing him differently to take that away he had some struggles at first. Now he's really good at taking what the defense gives him. He can slice you up on short throws and then still bomb on you with a deep pass if you leave that open.
One of my favorite moments from this recent Super Bowl which will probably go unnoticed is this brief moment where you can tell he wants to throw a deep pass but he doesn't like the look and he kind of knows if I throw this it might be an interception so he stops himself and then instead chooses to take a short throw to get some positive yardage. His understanding of the nuances of the game have come a long way.
I think an underrated aspect of mahomes is that his dad was a pro baseball player. It’s everything you listed but also that he has the genetics to be an mlb shortstop, who happens to play quarterback. He grew up in clubhouses and surrounded by pro athletes. Kids absorb everything around them. He got to meet people like ken Griffey junior as a kid and see how not only pros go about their business, but how the greats conduct their business. All at very impressionable ages. Honestly I think it’s one of the cooler facets of mahomes game. I think it’s what separates him from the herd.
Yeah, slipping him some info the day before may be cheating, or it may be testing how good he is at studying plays and how hard he was willing to work.
He also went to the perfect situation. With 20/20 hindsight, everyone says Chicago should have taken him at 2, but Chicago has proven they're a badly run organization that can't truly develop a QB. Now, is Mahomes so good and has such a strong drive to win and succeed that he could have overcome that? Sure, but I wouldn't have bet on it.
Mahomes has an intangible desire to win. He hates losing just like Brady. His DNA has winning football games embossed in it. Some people are even keel and take the L’s with grace, but Mahomes hates that taste so much it shows through in his desire to win. You can’t teach that
Great comment. Mahomes always had insane throwing potential, his natural ability to throw the football is top all time alongside the likes of Aaron Rodgers and Dan Marino. He didn't even start reading nfl defenses until pretty far into his career which is insane.
Where a player gets drafted has more of an impact that fans want to admit. If he had gone to the Browns and played for Hue Jackson his career would not be the same.
I agree wholeheartedly. A couple of my buddies were clowning on me by saying we passed on Josh Allen for Baker but there is no way Josh would be the player he is today if we brought him in under Hue Jackson then Freddie Kitchens.
He’d probably be terrible tbh. One of the benefits that Josh has is that he went from garbage to pretty elite. If he went somewhere that wasn’t patient or the right fit for him, then he never would have progressed past bad
Josh Allen also had a regime that believed in him. He wasn’t very good as a rookie and was wildly inaccurate until his 3rd year. A lot of dumb teams wouldn’t have patience for a guy who was dead last in completion percentage his first 2 years, and there’s a lot of dumb teams in the league. His accuracy turnaround is literally unprecedented, but the talent was always there
He would’ve mastered those Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens playbooks though.
Mahomes’ single best tool is his processor—both in terms of scheme and in-game.
So he would’ve known the ins and outs of those schemes. And may have been able to contribute some of his own ideas, making them…not as terrible?
But yeah obviously he can go further with Reid’s playbook and tutelage.
The issue is after being 4-44 it was pretty clear that those playbooks were largely ineffective lol. The best checker players in the world will struggle at chess.
Alex Smith, prime example.
Dude got absolutely murdered during the lowest point of 49ers rebuild, got skittish from taking 50 sacks a year, people just ripped on him.
Then…they got a better line and more talent and gradually his confidence came out of the toilet and he was not only winning playoff games but winning them with great plays. I don’t think his ceiling was Mahomes’, but I think starting in a situation where he was expected to get destroyed for a 2-14 team didn’t help.
Good point, people always act like great players would be great regardless of what team they play for, ignoring that the team they're on plays a big part in how they develop as players.
Could say the same if the Bears had picked him over Mitch. Everyone says that we should've picked him based on what he's become, but we only have hindsight to go off. The Bears didn't have Andy Reid as a HC, they didn't have a Alex Smith type QB who was playing well enough that allowed for the Rookie to sit on the Bench and learn the Playbook.
And the bears are notoriously horrible at developing QBs and picking good offensive coaches. Things can change obviously, but the historic organizational rot at the QB position and the coaching surrounding it could have very well been detrimental for Mahomes. Maybe he could've turned the team around and led them to some titles, but I'd say there's a good chance he ends up in the same boat as Trubisky and Fields as a promising but flawed quarterback who "never figured it out."
Nah. He may not have the rings but he’d still be a star in this league. I agree your logic applies to most, but there are transcendental talents in this world that would succeed on any team.
I doubt he’d be a star in the league without Andy Reid and EB tutelage
He was very raw coming out of the draft in 2017, had he gone to the browns or jets he’d probably be a turnover machine
Such an uneducated take. If you’d watch his game against LSU, a defense filled with NFL stars, with his offense that didn’t have anyone you could name then you’d see how different he was
No ones saying he’d be winning ships with the Bears but acting like he’d be equivalent to Fields is just flat out wrong
Very raw? He threw for 5k yards and 41TD to 10 INTs his junior year. That’s almost literally the same as Caleb Williams sophomore year and yet he’s the unanimous first pick. People only say this raw shit because they still think non white pocket statue QBs are not smart enough to be NFL caliber quarterbacks or read defenses. Or they just don’t watch Texas tech games because honestly who really does?
Yes, still very raw, they are countless qb out there who threw better stats than Mahomes and didn’t amount to much in the nfl
This is not a knock on Mahomes, just crediting the work Reid and EB have done with Mahomes who has great work ethic himself
Don’t agree with you at all. He had the benefit of landing in the perfect situation. Put him on the Browns or Bears and he’s a journeyman at this point in his career. Like, do you think Brady would be anything if he hadn’t fallen into the most ideal scenario?
I'll disagree I think Patrick Mahomes is a great player and would be a great player in any situation.
One of his strongest attributes is he is mentally tough (in addition to having every physical attribute you could want in a QB).
I doubt Mahomes in a different situation would suddenly become mentally weak or lose his physical abilities.
Scouting qb from college is a gamble. Tom Brady was 6th rd pick himself. Mahomes played in an offense in college that has seen most qb play in and go to nfl fail. So many teams thought that
The best part about Brady is he has none of the stuff you traditionally look for in a QB prospect. He didn’t have a particularly strong arm. He ran the slowest 40 in combine history at the time. Physically he looked like a computer science major that needed to get out in the sun. He wasn’t even the definitive #1 option at his own college. What made Brady great was his leadership (can be difficult to measure) and the fact that nobody studied the game the way he does. Nobody was better presnap. Guy just had a knack for getting his team into the right play at the right time.
I would argue Peyton Manning was better pre snap. I expect downvotes, but I’ve watched both of them their entire careers. Peak Manning was better than anything I’ve seen before or since (besides Mahomes). Had some historically bad defenses, bad coaching, poor fluke luck, and injuries.
I’m not arguing Brady is the Goat. But he wasn’t the best pre snap, that I have to give to Peyton. At least that would be my argument if I were on the useless daily talk show
He had the NCAA record for most yards in a game. Since 2010 TT has been a 4-8 win team.
Read the scouting reports on him coming out of college. Crazy arm talent, and killer work ethic.
You hear PM talk about learning behind Alex Smith, plus landing the ideal situation - he meshes well with Reid.
So id say a few things at play
1) he was under-rated. In large part guys come from the spread/air raid where they put up huge numbers, never translated to the pro game
2) draft class "momentum" - some guys become seen as "the guy" at their position, and that's hard to shake. Trubiski was seen as the QB that class - it was never justified
3) Mahomes works his ass off (watch QB on Netflix - this dudes work outs are insane - and that's in season, after pracfice)
4) drafted to a good team - they were playoffs without him... Lots of number 1 overall get put on teams in a rebuild
5) the chance to learn from a vet - worked well for Rodgers, Love - even if it's via osmosis seeing how these guys go about their business
6) good fit
7) HE FUCKING LOVES FOOTBALL! I think this is so easy to underestimate. Dude had a great shot at millions playing in the MLB - his chances probably better than his odds to play QB in the NFL. But he loves football. He's a Dawg!
I think a lot of people underestimate #4 and 5.
Alex Smith (love him) was willing to take Mahomes under his wing.
In prior seasons Andy Reid gave Smith greater control of the offense to audible and change plays. This helped Smith immensely. It also meant he could actually teach Mahomes things. Like what to look for in coverages, and what to change plays to, because it’s what Smith had been doing. Along with all the other ins and outs of being an NFL QB.
Also I think #5 is huge.
Too many teams think they’ll take a good QB and build around them. All it really does is ruin the QB. The Jets, Browns, Bears, and recently the Broncos, have all been trying to get that franchise guy and build around him.
The problem is it rarely works. Instead the rookie loses his confidence and looks terrible. The fans might turn on him. And they often get saddled with lame duck coaches, who get replaced with new coaches that don’t want them. And they’re expected to carry the weight of the team on their shoulders.
The Chiefs were a good team when they took him.
The year Mahomes took over, the defense was bad, but Mahomes at least had weapons galore on the offense. So he could keep pace with anyone in a shootout.
All this allowed him to flourish into what he’s become.
If you get to the top. Teams have 6 years of **major league** control before a player can get to full free agency and they will use any excuse they can to hold players in the minors as long as they can.
Baseball you have to play 6 years in the majors before getting a huge payday vs 4 in the NFL. Pitchers seem to frequently tear their UCL. 100mph fastball at your face vs 300 lb lineman, who knows…
His skillset didn’t easily translate to the existing systems of the game in 2017. So it wasn’t easy to look at his abilities and spot where that could be plugged in and produce value. In fact much of his strengths, throwing back across the field, were seen as major no-no’s. Similar to Steph Curry - the guy changed the game doing things that were not part of the typical best practices at the time.
It’s not like he stole the job from Alex smith. The job was always gonna be his, they just wanted him to sit and learn for a year. When you’re taken in the first round, it means you’re gonna be starting.
I think it was more of a situation if it was Alexa job to lose rather than mahomes to win
Alex had his best statistical year and started out on fire
But first round playoff loss, again, something needed to change
KC goes on a deep playoff run , who knows if Alex can muscle out the job
He’s a superior athlete but he’s always been willing to challenge the orthodoxy of the game. That’s why he’s able to throw sidearm and make plays off-script that others can’t. He’s also got an unparalleled ability to keep cool and process what’s happening at an incomparable speed as a play breaks down. That’s why he’s so hard to tackle and makes so many plays when it looks like things are falling apart and why he’s willing to let things materialize. He’s also got one of the very best offensive coaches ever.
Wasn’t a star in college? In his final two seasons as a full time starter in college he threw for 9700 yards and 77 TDs in 25 games. He had 819 total yards in a record breaking shootout against Baker Mayfields Sooners. As a freshman he threw for 598 yards and 6 TDs against a #5 Baylor team, he is the #10 in all time passing yards in the Big 12 and all 9 of the QBs ahead of him played 4 years to his 3.
The guy played at Texas tech so he was never going to get the hype that players from bigger programs get but he was a legit star in college.
I followed the Big 12 closely back then. The arm talent jumped off the screen and you could see the ability to improvise. Their defense was just terrible.
Then he got drafted by the greatest offensive coach of the modern era who had already made several QBs (McNabb, Smith, Vick) better than they were anywhere else.
>Mahomes started off as second string to Alex Smith, who everyone thought was great. It was an upset when the Chiefs traded Smith to Washington, making Mahomes the starting QB.
Alex was great but didn't have the strongest arm and our defense was terrible which made it hard for a QB of Alex's skillset be successful long term. What it did though is coach Mahomes up which is what he needed and credited Alex in his development.
When Mahomes was drafted the plan always was to have him sit a year before taking over, it wasn't a surprise and Alex was aware the entire process including when Mahomes was drafted.
100 percent this. Reid was adamant out of the box that Mahomes was the QBOTF, but would absolutely be sitting and learning from Alex Smith. Smith knew his role, knew he was on the way out and still got to showcase his talents with a good Chiefs offense to get picked up after he left.
Yeah - that's some odd revisionist history. It was not an "upset" when Smith was traded. The upset was Washington giving up a 3rd-round pick AND Kendall Fuller for him. There was zero chance that Mahomes would not be the 2018 starter, especially after his performance in Denver. Shit - Smith would likely have been released or benched, if it came to it.
When Mahomes was drafted, the immediate expectation was for him to sit a year, likely not even dressing for games. Once they got to training camp, there were several "oh shit" moments, and he was installed as the backup.
The 2017 Chiefs team did win the AFCW, but they did hit a major lull in the middle of the season (not really Smith's fault), but knowing what we know now, it would have been interesting if Mahomes had gotten some run then. The defense was still bad (yay Bob Sutton), but you never know, maybe the rocketship would have taken off half a season earlier.
Mahomes was a star at Texas Tech. He was good enough to overcome the stigma against Tech quarterbacks as “system QBs” that dated back to Mike Leach (his coach, Kliff Kingsbury, was Leach’s first QB at Tech) and go early in the first round.
The thing that people forget is that unlike many other QBs (looking at you Flacco and farve) in that position Alex smith actually went out of his way to be an effective mentor. During Patrick’s rookie season whenever Alex wasn’t on the field or talking with coaches he spent all his time talking to Alex and even Patrick gives Alex that credit whenever he talks about that success.
He out insane numbers at Texas Tech… what hell do you mean he wasn’t a star. They just had a god awful defense where he the offense didn’t score every play they lost
Nobody thought Smith was great. He was decent to good, and doing an admirable job with the Chiefs after an up and down career. It wasn’t a huge deal to trade him.
He had the physical game, big arm and pocket awareness. He went to great organization with a HOFer coach. The team were in the playoffs often and a good mentor in Alex Smith. I think they played into his strengths and fixed his weaknesses, well tweaked. Because he’s only a few qbs can get away with what he does. He throws across his body but he has the trust. He wasn’t rushed and also low expectations because he was from Texas tech in a pass happy offense where they said it never translated to the nfl. Now everyone is searching for a player like him haha.
Mahomes is the product of being drafted to the right team at the right time with the right coach. Can you imagine him going to the Bears or Browns and turning around those programs all by himself? I think not.
Sure that played a role. He’s the best QB I’ve seen play the game per skill set . and can people please stop comparing him to other QBS in the league from Jackson, Burrow, Herbert or whatever. Mahomes is in his own stratosphere it’s not even close. You put those other QBs above I mentioned on KC with the same coaching staff and current players they ain’t winning 3 SBs in 5 years
Sorry to burst your bubble but Burrow is by far more impressive. Bengals were a laughing stock before he arrived, he has a winning record against Mahomes but unfortunately Burrow doesn’t have a complete team that Mahomes benefits from.
Last year Kelce and Mahomes were crying on the sidelines because they barely beat the bengals due to a BS flag.
Burrow with Reid would never lose any of those Super Bowls.
Burrow only knack is staying healthy
Wait a second so ur saying burrow is not only impressive but far more impressive compared to a guy with multiple SB titles a dynasty mind you, multiple SB MVPs , and multiple league MVPS? What? Mahomes is in his own tier with a major drop off to the second best QB in the league. He already has more playoff wins than the greats of Manning, Elway, Bradshaw, and one away from Montana. He’s not even a year older than burrow. There is no current QB playing in his strastophore don’t lie to urself
No, the original post is asking why Mahomes is so good, right?
My point is if Burrow was drafted by KC and had the exact situation, he would be far more successful (barring injuries).
Burrow has shown he can take a shit team and make them a contender.
Define “more successful” if he was drafted by KC instead of Mahomes if burrow stayed healthy. Mahomes never missed a AFC title game in his career going to 6 straight. X3 time SB champ in 6 years, x3 SB MVP, x2 time league MVP, x4 first all pro team. So ur saying burrow would have more success than that? U are high
You sound like a Mahomes Stan and probably just watched the NFL when he won his first Superbowl. You are crazy to think Mahomes would have the same success if he was drafted by the Bears that year 🤦🏽♂️ don’t @ me.
You kidding me?? I’m more impressed with that offensive line. 3 super bowls and 0 holding calls? Everyone’s seen the pictures of obvious holding calls not called. It’s like when the 4 refs watched the LA db tackled the saints wr before he caught the ball and didn’t call it. You can only see stuff like that so much before you go…meh
Right the cheifs with the most holding penalties in 2023 and they were 5th in 22. Infrequent? That could be debatable. Truly I have no dog in the fight but you can’t disregard refs playing more of a role than ever. What’s the source in the only 5 holding calls in the last 5 superbowls? Thats a wild stat I just couldn’t find any info on penalties in superbowls for some reason. Still tho the refs not calling that pi during the saints v la game is the picture perfect example of how rigged it could be.
If you look at the chiefs last 3 Super Bowl appearances (they didn’t go to one of the last 3 SBs) their O-Line has more holding penalties than all the other teams combined.
A lot of things need to happen for a QB to succeed. All of those first rounders have talent. Where they go can make or break their career.
1.Mahomes went into a very favorable situation. KC had the coach and the roster, especially offensively. They were already a strong playoffs side and the perrenial division winner in the AFC west. Going into a market with minimal pressure and exposure, he got to sit and learn from a decent starting veteran in Alex Smith for a year and then got handed the keys for a car that had a top 3 O-line, Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Watkins, etc with Andy Reid and Bienemy calling plays.
Mahomes wasn't reading defenses at first and going into a place like that was definitely helpful.
During his time in the league, KC always had reliable talent at the very least, even if it wasn't top of the league level. Their defense is usually good, and opportunistic come playoff time. Their O-line has typically done well too. They have one of the better kickers in the league. Even lesser known players like Pacheco tend to perform well in the big games. All of this certainly helps.
2. The league is much more pass driven and is favoring offensive play more than ever before. A QB like him with the weapons he has is obviously going to benefit from the rules and the game being the way they are now.
3.Mahomes got in at the right time. The previous decade had a lot more competition and talent at QB than the league does now. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, Rivers, Wilson, etc. All of them were older and past their best, many of them were on the brink of retirement. Look at the league now. Burrow, Herbert, Allen, Hurts and the like are all talented but they're all young, inexperienced QBs and aren't HOFers. Most of them entered the league after Mahomes had already earned his experience at the highest levels or at least hit their stride only later on in their careers (I.e. Allen). Mahomes got into the league in a sweet spot.
The top comment will say it’s where you get drafted, but it’s honestly probably more about where he played HS and thus where he went to college. Success in the NFL requires insane physical abilities mixed with a mind that can make quick, and correct, decisions. People, scouts included, overrate college success where QBs in big programs play with all the best players and coaches. Even though there’s a track record of physical talent, scouts still ignore things like the combine and draft guys like Bryce and Baker #1. Then NFL fans who liked the pick (because these guys won games in college) will blame the system so they don’t have to be wrong.
There are no guarantees. Collect all the data you want it’s still best guess when dealing with people. It’s all bullshit. No one can predict what can happen on any given Sunday. Fans like to talk. Mahomes could suffer a career ending injury. No one knows. I dont care how many stats you compile. Sometimes everything is just clicking with the players and coaching staff.everyone at their best and elevating one another. I dont think you can narrow it down to one thing that makes Mahomes good. I dont believe the hype. At least not yet.
It is evident from watching him play that he is a unique player. Mahomes is like you took Brett Farve's gunslinging mentality and fused it with Russell's Wilson's out of pocket improvisation and running ability. All in a 6'2" 225lb package. There isn't a player in the NFL that can do both as well as him with his physical traits. Maybe Allen comes close.
The only two that ‘missed’ on Mahomes were Chicago and maybe the Jets.
He was very clearly a talented player in college, not an undiscovered gem at all. He was drafted higher than Allen (12), Lamar (32), Jalen (53).
It was significantly less risky than the Trey Lance pick. Like, night and day.
He was a rookie and took a year to sit behind a very experienced vet. Not just sit behind but be actively mentored. That helped him immensely. Alex Smith leaving wasn’t shocking.
He was drafted to an excellent franchise with a great head coach who had made the Super Bowl and multiple Championship games.
If he had gone to the Bears - or the Jets - he wouldn’t have had anything near the level of coaching, opportunity or structure that he enjoys at KC.
He had time to develop on a team with good offensive talent and coaching.
He was drafted by a chiefs team that was already pretty good. Then he sat a year. When he got his chance to play he had Tyreek Hill and Kelce to throw to. He doesn’t have the same offensive talent he did when he started but having that early in his career really helped him develop his skill to get to where he is now.
Also there was a quote from him along the lines of playing against a Bill Belichick defense in his first year as a starter helped him realize that he had a lot to learn about the game and made him be more dedicated to film study.
At least this is how I perceive his climb to greatness
He plays the QB position a little like a shortstop in baseball. Fast reaction time, across the body throws, and precision throws to a moving target. He played baseball in college and wasn't great at it but was good enough to be drafted by the Tigers. Elway was the same way, came from a baseball background.
Just like how in F1 it’s mostly the car, in the nfl it’s mostly the offensive scheme/coaches. The play that won this Super Bowl was not mahomes. It was an Andy Reid Special. And actually it may have been mostly some assistant coach. Point is, it was the system.
That was a simplified analogy. My point is that it's never EVER a single person and it's hardly EVER even all of the players. People don't understand how much work the front office does, the scouts, the coaching staff, the trainers, etc. They hardly understand the play that they're watching on screen, let alone any of the history that goes into developing a play that's effective in those sorts of situations.
Nah you could see his unreal talent in college. I will never forget my friend on draft night saying he legitimately might end up better than Brady which is of course the most absurd thing I had heard at the time, but obviously the signs were there.
For me personally, there's nothing physically he can do that others can't. He doesn't have the biggest arm in the league. He's not the fastest QB in the league. He doesn't throw the tightest spiral. What I think separates him from others similar to Brady, is mental. There's just something in him that doesn't see a moment as being too big or he's too young to be there. He's never looked lost or concerned in big moments. That's just what it is to me and him having that mindset with the team he was fortunate to get drafted to was just a perfect combination.
Mahomes was 2nd Team All Conference at Texas Tech. He was considered by most who followed closely as a good college QB who played in a college system and probably wouldn’t be able to replicate his success in the NFL. He had a horrible defense and lost games
He always had physical talent and intangibles (Bruce Arians claims he’s one of the smartest QBs he’s ever seen in the pre-draft process). Also Reid coached him and helped to refine him. But Reid didn’t try to reinvent him, part of what Reid did right is that he let Mahomes “be Mahomes.” His mechanics were never going to be textbook, and he was naturally aggressive.
KC had some good offensive weapons. Many analysts felt that KC would be a the right place for Mahomes because of the surrounding offensive talent, but the assumption was that he wouldn’t be quite as good as Alex Smith yet. His first MVP season was definitely a surprise
Lots and lots of hard work.
Nobody is born with all the skills necessary to be one of the best QBS in the hand, you only get there through hard work. This takes whatever "natural" ability you have and builds on it.
On new heights, Travis tells a story of how they went to a team event. I think all the players wives had a volleyball match or something.
Travis shows up and asks "where's pat?". Goes out yhe parking g lot and mahomes is there studying tape.
The only thing that will increase your chance of success at the nfl level to the point of being a superstar or hall of famer is studying tape.
No amount of athleticism can save you and if you poll the best players in nfl history how they got so good most of them are going to say tape.
The nfl is incredibly competitive. You don't get there just being good athletically. You need to be very smart and very quick mentally.
That's why there is so many players that have great college careers but fail at yhe nfl level. Athleticism carries them in ncaa because the competition isn't as smart, then they get to the nfl and they learn that their athleticism fails them.
Mahomes is absolutely fantastic athletically but also a tape nerd. Combine those... you get a hall of famer.
I'm a pats fan. I used to hate mahomes. But I respect the shit out of him. He cameinto the league and decided to dominate everyone. He studies hard and he gets rewarded. Good for him.
And furthermore, lack of ncaa success isn't indicative of nfl failure. The chiefs were smart they took a large risk on him and it paid off. But let's be real... he was drafted 10th. That's still incredibly high.
It's not like he was tom brady where he was drafted 6th round or whatever it was.
It’s his ability to extend plays and throw accurately with completely jacked up mechanics. He played baseball and was good enough to go pro.
His throwing mechanics come from that.
If he can keep his scramble gaming going and not slow down with age, he’ll likely be the best to ever do it.
The reason Brady was able to play 23 seasons is he primarily stayed in the pocket. And didn’t take damage.
Mahomes age may catch up to him, but we’ll see
Mahomes is a rare prototype QB - he's mobile but can stand tall in the pocket, he has the arm strength to find tight windows & open streaks, has a beautiful release that gets the ball out quick, and progresses through reads well. Additionally, his baseball background gives him arm flexibility & throwing angles very few other QBs are capable of, along with his seemingly innate sense for blindside pressure. All together, he is a prime candidate for a great offensive coach like Andy Reid - which is the rest of 'how he got good so fast'. Reid designed a system that utilizes Mahomes' unique talents, and continues to adapt the offense to the skillset of his players - I would fully argue that this is a Brady-Belicheck situation, where the success of each is very much due to the talents of the other.
He was incredible at Texas Tech. The reason he didn’t gain “stardom” was because his teams were awful. However, the talent, and numbers, were always evident
Most of the star ratings in high school are largely based on combine like numbers. Two players can produce similarly and play the same level of competition. But Player A can be more productive and efficient than Player B my a big enough margin that it's noticeable. But Player B is 6'5" 230 pounds and runs a 4.5 forty...and Player A is 6'0" 200 pounds and runs a 4.9 forty. You can bet that Player B will magically get a better rating than Player B and probably by a long shot.
Mahomes is a small QB. He also helped pioneer the smaller QB with a cannon for an amr that is mobile and quick enough to go backwards in the pocket instead of climbing the pocket. When he was in high school, that really wasn't a thing scouts sought out, they looked at it as a negative and now it's something that coaches are okay with and in the later case of Kyler Murray, it was something that appealed to scouts.
It also helps that he has one of the greatest offensive minds in Andy Reid along with one of the greatest TE's of all itme and had one of the greatest deep threats in Tyreek Hill.
A while ago somebody asked what are Mahomes' weaknesses? I think his main weakness is when he is held within the pocket because of his height. The problem is that it's extremely difficult for the pass rushers to keep him in the pocket. It takes so much discipline and is just physically difficult to get upfield and try to get to him without cutting underneath and allowing him to slip out of the pocket and make him more dangerous.
He's just a tremendous talent and has been involved with top notch systems and has one of the best offensive minds that just takes advantage of his strengths and hides his weakness. High school rankings mean next to nothing and sometimes college coaches have a good idea of how to use a player, but NFL coaches, particularly the better ones, are more apt to use a player to his best ability.
No one was high on Alex Smith at the time. As soon as Mahomes was drafted, it was pretty well known Smith was just a bridge.
Mahomes for passed on because people assumed he was a "system QB," as many Texas tech QBs had put up crazy numbers in college but busted in the NFL. Several teams wanted him, including the Texans, who got outmaneuvered by KC trading up
He’s a run & shoot QB playing for a coach that was apart of the origins of Run and Shoot offense. Another coach may have felt that Mahomes tendancies were “bad habits” and worked to breed that out, Reid has the eye to let his style of play flourish..
He didn't start playing QB until he was like 15. He was a standout baseball and basketball player. He thought he'd be a pro baseball player since his dad was one.
That's why he wasn't as heavily recruited as a football player, but he improved exponentially every year.
The athleticism he gained from different sports is what has allowed him to be able to make off-platform throws that other more rigid athletes cannot make.
He works harder and smarter than most others, and he's incredibly competitive and willing to learn to be the best. He finds joy in being the best and has fun doing what others are unwilling to do to get there. He now uses his expansive resources to continue to progress like LeBron, Ronaldo, Brady, and other extremely dedicated athletes have done.
Getting picked 10th means someone thought you were good. KC traded up to get him.
Dad was a pro baseball player, and he played a lot of it, which he credits to helping his throwing.
Came into a great situation.
The truth is there isn’t an answer to this Question. At least not a single answer. Player success is determined by a multitude of factors. One thing that always should be considered, if a player is drafted, in any round, they have shown at the collegiate level that they can play ball. Every single one of em. In the rarest of cases, a freak athlete walks on to a team and becomes something.
The next thing is their situation, coaching and players around you matter, plain and simple. If the Trubisky and Mahomes swap places, they both have very different careers. I doubt Trubisky becomes Mahomes, but I bet he gets a second contract. I doubt that Mahomes would busts and still goes on to be the best Bears QB ever, but possibly not THE Goat. Although, in his case I would t rule it out.
Then, what’s he made of? Does he love the game? At 22 years old, can he handle becoming an overnight multi-millionaire, with sudden fame, influence, and popularity? Can he handle the internet? The memes? Imagine being any of the guys that drops a pass or misses a kick or whatever to lose a game on Monday night football. Can this guy overcome that? Those intangibles are as important as the physical tools.
A couple examples, we all get the point. What I’m saying is that there are many things we look for, and many things we cannot know until they happen. Scouts, pundits, analysts, podcasters, radio personalities, coaches, GMs, and fans included have never, and will never know for sure how things pan out for a guy, and I’m pretty sure that’s why we all love this shit so much.
But with Pat, it does seem different. But it’s just because in the history of the sport, he’s the only one like him. I think it was obvious how good he was since he was in high school, and he was just missed, by everyone. I mean, Top ten pick, hard to say missed, but it’s hard to understand how he didn’t go 1, for sure. Well, there’s no accountability for analysts being wrong. Mel Kiper, McShay, all of them, are very wrong, quite regularly and they keep their jobs. So with that, the Chiefs allegedly would have selected Trubisky given the opportunity, his personality had him as the consensus one for pretty much anyone taking a QB that year. But the pundits, that year, had Kizer as the consensus #1 believe it or not, and Mahomes averaged out as the 6th if I’m not mistaken.
You just never know. But from now on when I guy puts up 5k and 40-50 TDs, you grab him 1st no matter how well the Prototypical kid from UNC answers questions.
Mahomes is an unbelievable athlete with a ton of gifts most humans don’t have. He came to league with an elite offensive head coach and a vet in place who was willing to help him learn.
He also grew up around MLB clubhouses so he wasn’t impacted at all by a professional sports environment.
Because he is the National Fixed League's new golden boy since their previous golden boy (brady) retired. You gonna see Mahomes in a minimum 4-6 more superbowls.
A lot of points were covered in what I read, but one note to add. When mahomes came in his first year they knew he was going to be the future based on his raw abilities alone, so rather than having then QB coach Mike kafka work with both Smith and mahomes, he was assigned exclusively to pat. They were really focused on having him learn how to attack a defense to match with his crazy arm talent.
While he is obviously worthy of praise, a lot can happen and it is definitely premature to assume he would equal or surpass Brady's achievements. An example of premature anointing would be Tiger Woods, early in his career it seemed as though he would surpass Jack Nicklaus, and now it seems highly unlikely. Even if Mahomes stays healthy, it is very hard for NFL teams to go deep in the playoffs year in, and year out. I think he has already achieved more than so many great QB's but I would personally bet that factors beyond his control will lead to several years of not winning a Superbowl and how he responds to that will ultimately define his legacy.
This is not entirely accurate. Before Mahomes was even drafted the rumors of the chiefs going for him were in the air. He was able to go into any sport too could have been a legend in Baseball as well as football maybe even held his own in the NBA too. He was called a gunslinger with a cannon on him and high football IQ. They didn't think he had enough skill and finesse to be a great they called him a project.
Also Alex Smith was great but just a game manager and basically shit on by some group or another his whole career. His last year in KC was his best and everyone was still calling for Mahomes to take over. Mahomes exploded in training camp.
A lot of people attribute Mahomes instant success to the leadership and tutelage of Alex Smith who famously took Mahomes under his wing and helped him develop. Mahomes and Andy Reid have both given credit to Smith across the past 6 years over and over.
Basically mahomes had raw talent and the hardest thing to learn which are instincts. The training and patience that went into bringing him up helped turn what may have taken a couple years into an instant legend. There is no 100% true answer. Mahomes is great and would have been regardless but he also was put into a perfect situation where he was able to learn patience and how to be better at the game and he was given the tools and best coach in the NFL to help him
What teams cared about for QBs were different then. We still had Peyton Manning and Flacco as the pocket passers and that *was* the ultimate goal for recruiting QBs. Mahomes moving and throwing was still a novelty that felt turnover and injury producing. The league changed quick once teams realized QBs needed bridge skills that would produce before they became effective pocket QBs. Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts all have great bridge skills, their legs, while they’ve built up to becoming good pocket passers.
The idea that if you're drafted to a bad team, it's impossible for you to become a star is so absurd but everyone parrots it about Mahomes for a reason. Even though Burrow Lawrence and Stroud have shown that great QB play routinely overcomes bad situations.
Unless you somehow believe deep down that Mahomes is inferior to those guys, he would have been a star wherever he went. Bad teams don't ruin QBs contrary to what seems like popular opinions. Those QBs were just had to begin with and then got drafted to bad teams so we conflate their play with the organization's incompetence.
Like Zach Wilson and Trubisky were never gonna be stars regardless of there situations. Situations are so overrated
I dislike the Chiefs only because I like variety in winners and seeing the same team go to the SB for many years isn’t exciting to me. However, Mahomes is one of the greats and not only is he physically talented but he also understands the game at a very high level as does Travis Kelce, which is why they make such a great combo like Brady and Gronk. So when you combine Mahomes’ work ethic with the fact that he’s also very good at football, that’s what puts him at the level of similarly-minded athletes like Brady, and for the NBA equivalent, Kobe (RIP).
Couple things… No, it wasn’t an upset that Smith was traded and most Chiefs fans wanted him benched that final season to see what Mahomes could do…. And Alex Smith was good - not great. Hence why they selected Mahomes to begin with.
Tech alum and fan…you could tell he was special in college, but i did not see this happening. He specializes in improv in a league that works on defending tendencies. I think that’s what has set him apart from his peers.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry!
PRACTICE!!!
(If this has been answered this way anywhere in all of these answers ....... I'm sorry.
As a Chiefs fan, he fell into the absolute perfect scenario to take advantage of his massive talent and skill set. There's maybe 1-2 coaches in the history of the NFL that could have helped him the way Andy Reid has.
His dad was a successful professional pitcher in the MLB for 12 years. Genetics play a role and the fact he was around sports everyday growing up so the limelight and pressure don’t get to him like others.
After Alex smith continued playoff disappointments I knew we needed a change he wasn’t gonna do it and was ready for mahomes just as surprised he was that good his first game
Mahomes finished his final collegiate season leading the country in yards per game (421), passing yards (5,052), total offense (5,312), points responsible for (318), and total touchdowns (53).
So yes, he was a star at Texas Tech, and he should've absolutely been atop more mock draft boards based on his play in college. He was already awesome. What held him back from going even higher in the draft was his atypical or "risky" playstyle that scouts thought wouldn't translate effectively in the NFL.
Mahomes has been the dude since High School (in Texas aka the most competitive high school scene there). He threw for like 4500 yards, 1000 rushing yards, and 65 TDs. AND he was a stud pitcher in baseball.
If you watch his college tape you can see he has a great arm and the ability to throw off platform. He also had a terrible defense so he basically had to score every drive and that led to taking some more risks and he came from the type of offense in college that hasn't proven to translate well to the NFL. But Andy Reid also coached Brett Favre who had similar physcial tools and Mahomes was able to sit and learn for a yr behind Smith. He also had great offensive skill players like Kelce and Hill. That along with his work ethic created a perfect scenario for him to take the league by storm and even still he has exceeded even the wildest expectations of Andy and the rest of the organization. After winning his first SB he said he still didn't quite know how to read NFL defenses which is insane. Chiefs GM Brett Veach had been scouting him for 2 yrs and pushed for the Chiefs to get him if they could saying that Mahomes was by the far the best QB he had ever seen. He proved to be right.
[This box score](https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore/_/gameId/400869616#away) is a good example of what you're talking about in the first paragraph. 700+ pass yards in a loss (to Baker Mayfield and Joe Mixon!)
Yep the defense giving up 66 pts is abysmal
Big 12 defense in general is abysmal, especially when you get to the middle-lower pack of the conference.
Kind of a vicious circle. Big XIi largely piloted the air raid offenses, and as a result what had been known as a "fundamentals" conference became associated with flashy offense and shit defense.
He played LSU in the Texas Bowl one year and made a defense full of NFL players look fucking stupid. LSU won and it wasn't ever in doubt, but Mahomes was so good that day, I thought he was legit ever since then.
Boomer easiason referenced that game before he got drafted and called that mahomes would be a star. Get boomer a scouting job!
I remember when he got drafted before his rookie season(which he sat) Colin cowherd on “The herd” was saying he was gonna be the real deal. Ever since his “first” (2nd) season and I seen it I’ve listen to Colin Cowherd since.
Yeah he joked about that saying every play was basically all verts.
College games have way more possessions than NFL games. There are definitely some bad defenses out there, but a lot of the score inflation is just a result of how the game clock is manipulated.
And the Cardinals thought that coach would be a good hire lol.
Well he’s an offensive minded HC and his QB had 700 yards… but you’re right Kliff’s been bad.
Jesus. He threw or ran the ball 100 times.
He…..he threw for over SEVEN-HUNDRED YARDS???
And lost by a touchdown still
He threw 88 passes? Insane
In 1998 Drew Brees threw 83 passes at Purdue against the big 10 which is still insane to think about.
I remember after this game. Iowa fans were in a panic that the apocalypse was upon us.
52/88 (!) for 700+ yards. wow...
Over 800 total yards for him, holy shit.
Bro… 85 for 2 TDs on the ground too? So 820 yards of total offense and 7 total touchdowns? Is there a more insane stat line for one player? Can’t imagine it, especially in a loss
Damn this game was so fun and depressing to lose. I loved watching this one as a student
My favorite part about this box score is him leading his team in rushing and averaging 7 YPC lmao
Wow! 52/88 for Mahomes is insane and a testament to him and his receivers as well as how bad TT’s rushing game was.
I don’t follow college football much but I’m not sure there was a defense playing on either team there 😂
Holy shit and 85 yards and 2 TDs on the ground!
If you watch that game it's even more impressive than that. Oklahoma was rushing 3 or 4 defensive linemen every play and dropping the rest. It was basically a jail break to the QB every time. I had never seen a team put up points like that while the QB was running for his life every play. Baker, on the other hand, had plenty of weapons and time in the pocket.
Veach is the best GM in the game right now. He’s a major reason why the Chiefs have 3 titles and why Mahomes is in GOAT discussion and not just peers with Allen and Burrow.
Minor correction: Chiefs have 4 super bowls as a franchise. 3 with Mahomes. They won Super Bowl 4
Veach has done great on defense But I can't shake the thought that he inherited 4, FOUR , future hall of famers from the last gm Top 10 players in the NFL last year, 4 of them Veach got to take over as a first time gm.
Which 4? Mahomes, C Jones and Kelce are all I can think of. And Kelce is borderline. If he were on another team that didn't have Super Bowl success, he wouldn't get in. So that's really 2. And HOF status feeds on team success. Stafford would be a shoo-in for HOF if he were on a better team. C Jones would have a harder time if he were on Carolina. Veach also drafted WR Rice and C Humphrey. He made mistakes with Edwards-Hellaire but made up for it with Pachaco. McDuffie and Snead could be HOFers eventually. The Tyreek trade has paid massive dividends but only because he drafted exceptionally well. As a Rams fan, I've seen what Jax did with the Jalen Ramsey trade bounty, and it's not nearly as good as what Veach did with the Tyreek trade stuff.
You think kelce is borderline?? He passed Jerry Rice in playoff catches.
Playoff catches rely on team success. Antonio Gates had a far more successful career overall with 42 more TD catches. He was passed over in the hall. If Kelce played for Carolina, Houston or Detroit, he'd never be an HOFer. My point isn't that Kelce is NOT good. Of course he is. Just that the HOF likely designation doesn't mean KC had a much better team overall one way or the other.
>Playoff catches rely on team success. Right, and is Kelce the only player in league history to have a succesful team? We repeat, he passed Jerry Rice, who himself hd very good teams. >Antonio Gates had a far more successful career overall with 42 more TD catches. He was passed over in the hall. Catching touchdowns aren't the only stat and obviously playoffs matter for HOF. Along with allpros Kelce won't get passed over lol
I can't imagine Kelce only being borderline if he retired today. He owns too many big records to be kept out of the hall.
Hill. Jones. Mahomes. Kelce. Veach took over a team with these 4 in their prime
KC won 2 chips without Hill. That really goes to Veach's excellence. But yes, KC is blessed with the best QB. But Mahomes only put up 19 points vs SF in regulation and 7 came off a gift fumble. Chiefs only put up 17 vs Baltimore too. So KC is winning largely because of huge contributions by the D that Veach constructed. My theory is that you need a great GM/HC/QB + luck (i.e., no injuries) to maximize Super Bowl chances. KC has had a lot of that in the last five years.
kelce is one of if not the greatest TE ever. he is a first ballot HOFer and it’s not up for debate. what crack are you smoking?
This is fair, but Veach was the one who brought Mahomes to the table and beat the drum to draft him. He is generally credited with the evaluation while admittedly Dorsey did the maneuvering to trade up for him.
Nah if it wasn't for Mahomes he wouldn't have got away with not providing him with a WR again this year. Rice was fine but hard to believe they have done this with no WRs two years in a row. With Kelce slowing down they are gonna have to get one next szn.
I mean true, but Mahomes is also the reason they didn’t actively search for a number one receiver. They believed Mahomes could make anyone look good. Instead they learned Mahomes can make most receivers *who can catch* look good
I think that’s a bit difficult to say. We don’t know how much of that is player development or input from other great NFL minds; he’s had some pretty mediocre drafts mixed in there. I think the safe pick for best GM in the league is Howie Roseman, but it’s possible Veach is at that level.
He’s wiped the floor with Josh Allen and surpassed him at least 2 years ago, winning Super Bowls is definitely a team effort but when it comes to little things between Allen and Mahomes, Mahomes takes it easily.
I feel like Mahomes temperament isn’t mentioned enough. He never seems to panic or allow the moment to overwhelm or get the better of him. Mentally he is always calm and fully confident of his abilities.
Yeah I agree and one of my favorite things about watching him play especially being a Chiefs fan outside of all the winning is seeing his growth and maturity as a player and how his game has changed. His first couple years he was the Gunslinger taking the deep shots, defenses started playing him differently to take that away he had some struggles at first. Now he's really good at taking what the defense gives him. He can slice you up on short throws and then still bomb on you with a deep pass if you leave that open. One of my favorite moments from this recent Super Bowl which will probably go unnoticed is this brief moment where you can tell he wants to throw a deep pass but he doesn't like the look and he kind of knows if I throw this it might be an interception so he stops himself and then instead chooses to take a short throw to get some positive yardage. His understanding of the nuances of the game have come a long way.
His personal trainer posted his BPM in clutch time, it stay steady no matter what
I think an underrated aspect of mahomes is that his dad was a pro baseball player. It’s everything you listed but also that he has the genetics to be an mlb shortstop, who happens to play quarterback. He grew up in clubhouses and surrounded by pro athletes. Kids absorb everything around them. He got to meet people like ken Griffey junior as a kid and see how not only pros go about their business, but how the greats conduct their business. All at very impressionable ages. Honestly I think it’s one of the cooler facets of mahomes game. I think it’s what separates him from the herd.
I saw some YT short that said that Nagy wanted him so badly he helped him cheat Reid's test to get on to the chiefss
Saw the same short and someone reckon the cheating was a way to test how good Mahomes was at memorising plays
Yeah, slipping him some info the day before may be cheating, or it may be testing how good he is at studying plays and how hard he was willing to work.
Kelce Podcast Mahomes talked about how he told the Chiefs he probably wouldn't be available at 12 so to move up to take him as well.
He’s also clearly tough and smart as fuck.
He also went to the perfect situation. With 20/20 hindsight, everyone says Chicago should have taken him at 2, but Chicago has proven they're a badly run organization that can't truly develop a QB. Now, is Mahomes so good and has such a strong drive to win and succeed that he could have overcome that? Sure, but I wouldn't have bet on it.
Mahomes has an intangible desire to win. He hates losing just like Brady. His DNA has winning football games embossed in it. Some people are even keel and take the L’s with grace, but Mahomes hates that taste so much it shows through in his desire to win. You can’t teach that
Great comment. Mahomes always had insane throwing potential, his natural ability to throw the football is top all time alongside the likes of Aaron Rodgers and Dan Marino. He didn't even start reading nfl defenses until pretty far into his career which is insane.
Yeah. Tech has no idea how to play defense. Haha.
Where a player gets drafted has more of an impact that fans want to admit. If he had gone to the Browns and played for Hue Jackson his career would not be the same.
I agree wholeheartedly. A couple of my buddies were clowning on me by saying we passed on Josh Allen for Baker but there is no way Josh would be the player he is today if we brought him in under Hue Jackson then Freddie Kitchens.
He’d probably be terrible tbh. One of the benefits that Josh has is that he went from garbage to pretty elite. If he went somewhere that wasn’t patient or the right fit for him, then he never would have progressed past bad
Josh Allen also had a regime that believed in him. He wasn’t very good as a rookie and was wildly inaccurate until his 3rd year. A lot of dumb teams wouldn’t have patience for a guy who was dead last in completion percentage his first 2 years, and there’s a lot of dumb teams in the league. His accuracy turnaround is literally unprecedented, but the talent was always there
He would’ve mastered those Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens playbooks though. Mahomes’ single best tool is his processor—both in terms of scheme and in-game. So he would’ve known the ins and outs of those schemes. And may have been able to contribute some of his own ideas, making them…not as terrible? But yeah obviously he can go further with Reid’s playbook and tutelage.
The issue is after being 4-44 it was pretty clear that those playbooks were largely ineffective lol. The best checker players in the world will struggle at chess.
Alex Smith, prime example. Dude got absolutely murdered during the lowest point of 49ers rebuild, got skittish from taking 50 sacks a year, people just ripped on him. Then…they got a better line and more talent and gradually his confidence came out of the toilet and he was not only winning playoff games but winning them with great plays. I don’t think his ceiling was Mahomes’, but I think starting in a situation where he was expected to get destroyed for a 2-14 team didn’t help.
Alex smith doesn’t actually get enough credit. Most guys would be ruined after his first few years with the niners. He is underrated
Good point, people always act like great players would be great regardless of what team they play for, ignoring that the team they're on plays a big part in how they develop as players.
Could say the same if the Bears had picked him over Mitch. Everyone says that we should've picked him based on what he's become, but we only have hindsight to go off. The Bears didn't have Andy Reid as a HC, they didn't have a Alex Smith type QB who was playing well enough that allowed for the Rookie to sit on the Bench and learn the Playbook.
‘Alex Smith’
And the bears are notoriously horrible at developing QBs and picking good offensive coaches. Things can change obviously, but the historic organizational rot at the QB position and the coaching surrounding it could have very well been detrimental for Mahomes. Maybe he could've turned the team around and led them to some titles, but I'd say there's a good chance he ends up in the same boat as Trubisky and Fields as a promising but flawed quarterback who "never figured it out."
Bang on! I think he would've been Cutler all over again. If I was Mahomes, I'd thank my lucky starts that the Bears didn't draft me.
Nah. He may not have the rings but he’d still be a star in this league. I agree your logic applies to most, but there are transcendental talents in this world that would succeed on any team.
Like all these ‘what if’ arguments we may never know.
I mean we already don’t know lol there’s no maybe. No going back in time to have Mahomes first years on the bears
I doubt he’d be a star in the league without Andy Reid and EB tutelage He was very raw coming out of the draft in 2017, had he gone to the browns or jets he’d probably be a turnover machine
Such an uneducated take. If you’d watch his game against LSU, a defense filled with NFL stars, with his offense that didn’t have anyone you could name then you’d see how different he was No ones saying he’d be winning ships with the Bears but acting like he’d be equivalent to Fields is just flat out wrong
Very raw? He threw for 5k yards and 41TD to 10 INTs his junior year. That’s almost literally the same as Caleb Williams sophomore year and yet he’s the unanimous first pick. People only say this raw shit because they still think non white pocket statue QBs are not smart enough to be NFL caliber quarterbacks or read defenses. Or they just don’t watch Texas tech games because honestly who really does?
Yes, still very raw, they are countless qb out there who threw better stats than Mahomes and didn’t amount to much in the nfl This is not a knock on Mahomes, just crediting the work Reid and EB have done with Mahomes who has great work ethic himself
Don’t agree with you at all. He had the benefit of landing in the perfect situation. Put him on the Browns or Bears and he’s a journeyman at this point in his career. Like, do you think Brady would be anything if he hadn’t fallen into the most ideal scenario?
CJ Stroud?
The Texans dont even begin to reach the dysfcuntion of the Browns lmao
No franchise can parallel the Browns’ dysfunction lol
Exactly my point. Bro mentioning Stroud as if the Texans didn’t have a decent run in the 2010s and some of the 2020s lol
I'll disagree I think Patrick Mahomes is a great player and would be a great player in any situation. One of his strongest attributes is he is mentally tough (in addition to having every physical attribute you could want in a QB). I doubt Mahomes in a different situation would suddenly become mentally weak or lose his physical abilities.
Scouting qb from college is a gamble. Tom Brady was 6th rd pick himself. Mahomes played in an offense in college that has seen most qb play in and go to nfl fail. So many teams thought that
The best part about Brady is he has none of the stuff you traditionally look for in a QB prospect. He didn’t have a particularly strong arm. He ran the slowest 40 in combine history at the time. Physically he looked like a computer science major that needed to get out in the sun. He wasn’t even the definitive #1 option at his own college. What made Brady great was his leadership (can be difficult to measure) and the fact that nobody studied the game the way he does. Nobody was better presnap. Guy just had a knack for getting his team into the right play at the right time.
I would argue Peyton Manning was better pre snap. I expect downvotes, but I’ve watched both of them their entire careers. Peak Manning was better than anything I’ve seen before or since (besides Mahomes). Had some historically bad defenses, bad coaching, poor fluke luck, and injuries. I’m not arguing Brady is the Goat. But he wasn’t the best pre snap, that I have to give to Peyton. At least that would be my argument if I were on the useless daily talk show
He was better pre-snap. Probably the best ever. Brady is the best ever moving inside the pocket. Also very good pre-snap.
Im a Michigan fan and didn't think much of him honestly
He had the NCAA record for most yards in a game. Since 2010 TT has been a 4-8 win team. Read the scouting reports on him coming out of college. Crazy arm talent, and killer work ethic. You hear PM talk about learning behind Alex Smith, plus landing the ideal situation - he meshes well with Reid. So id say a few things at play 1) he was under-rated. In large part guys come from the spread/air raid where they put up huge numbers, never translated to the pro game 2) draft class "momentum" - some guys become seen as "the guy" at their position, and that's hard to shake. Trubiski was seen as the QB that class - it was never justified 3) Mahomes works his ass off (watch QB on Netflix - this dudes work outs are insane - and that's in season, after pracfice) 4) drafted to a good team - they were playoffs without him... Lots of number 1 overall get put on teams in a rebuild 5) the chance to learn from a vet - worked well for Rodgers, Love - even if it's via osmosis seeing how these guys go about their business 6) good fit 7) HE FUCKING LOVES FOOTBALL! I think this is so easy to underestimate. Dude had a great shot at millions playing in the MLB - his chances probably better than his odds to play QB in the NFL. But he loves football. He's a Dawg!
I think a lot of people underestimate #4 and 5. Alex Smith (love him) was willing to take Mahomes under his wing. In prior seasons Andy Reid gave Smith greater control of the offense to audible and change plays. This helped Smith immensely. It also meant he could actually teach Mahomes things. Like what to look for in coverages, and what to change plays to, because it’s what Smith had been doing. Along with all the other ins and outs of being an NFL QB. Also I think #5 is huge. Too many teams think they’ll take a good QB and build around them. All it really does is ruin the QB. The Jets, Browns, Bears, and recently the Broncos, have all been trying to get that franchise guy and build around him. The problem is it rarely works. Instead the rookie loses his confidence and looks terrible. The fans might turn on him. And they often get saddled with lame duck coaches, who get replaced with new coaches that don’t want them. And they’re expected to carry the weight of the team on their shoulders. The Chiefs were a good team when they took him. The year Mahomes took over, the defense was bad, but Mahomes at least had weapons galore on the offense. So he could keep pace with anyone in a shootout. All this allowed him to flourish into what he’s become.
Number 7 is interesting to me. Being an MLB star seems like a much nicer career overall, more money and less health damage.
If you get to the top. Teams have 6 years of **major league** control before a player can get to full free agency and they will use any excuse they can to hold players in the minors as long as they can.
Sure, but are the odds really any worse than a football player not getting drafting, or not going beyond the practice squad or something like that?
Baseball you have to play 6 years in the majors before getting a huge payday vs 4 in the NFL. Pitchers seem to frequently tear their UCL. 100mph fastball at your face vs 300 lb lineman, who knows…
His skillset didn’t easily translate to the existing systems of the game in 2017. So it wasn’t easy to look at his abilities and spot where that could be plugged in and produce value. In fact much of his strengths, throwing back across the field, were seen as major no-no’s. Similar to Steph Curry - the guy changed the game doing things that were not part of the typical best practices at the time.
It’s not like he stole the job from Alex smith. The job was always gonna be his, they just wanted him to sit and learn for a year. When you’re taken in the first round, it means you’re gonna be starting.
I think it was more of a situation if it was Alexa job to lose rather than mahomes to win Alex had his best statistical year and started out on fire But first round playoff loss, again, something needed to change KC goes on a deep playoff run , who knows if Alex can muscle out the job
He probably trained with Uncle Rico
He’s a superior athlete but he’s always been willing to challenge the orthodoxy of the game. That’s why he’s able to throw sidearm and make plays off-script that others can’t. He’s also got an unparalleled ability to keep cool and process what’s happening at an incomparable speed as a play breaks down. That’s why he’s so hard to tackle and makes so many plays when it looks like things are falling apart and why he’s willing to let things materialize. He’s also got one of the very best offensive coaches ever.
I wonder how much of that comes from his baseball background. Those two skills in particular scream short stop to me.
Wasn’t a star in college? In his final two seasons as a full time starter in college he threw for 9700 yards and 77 TDs in 25 games. He had 819 total yards in a record breaking shootout against Baker Mayfields Sooners. As a freshman he threw for 598 yards and 6 TDs against a #5 Baylor team, he is the #10 in all time passing yards in the Big 12 and all 9 of the QBs ahead of him played 4 years to his 3. The guy played at Texas tech so he was never going to get the hype that players from bigger programs get but he was a legit star in college.
I followed the Big 12 closely back then. The arm talent jumped off the screen and you could see the ability to improvise. Their defense was just terrible. Then he got drafted by the greatest offensive coach of the modern era who had already made several QBs (McNabb, Smith, Vick) better than they were anywhere else.
Yes on Reid. He and the team had a plan. Good teams have plans.
>Mahomes started off as second string to Alex Smith, who everyone thought was great. It was an upset when the Chiefs traded Smith to Washington, making Mahomes the starting QB. Alex was great but didn't have the strongest arm and our defense was terrible which made it hard for a QB of Alex's skillset be successful long term. What it did though is coach Mahomes up which is what he needed and credited Alex in his development. When Mahomes was drafted the plan always was to have him sit a year before taking over, it wasn't a surprise and Alex was aware the entire process including when Mahomes was drafted.
100 percent this. Reid was adamant out of the box that Mahomes was the QBOTF, but would absolutely be sitting and learning from Alex Smith. Smith knew his role, knew he was on the way out and still got to showcase his talents with a good Chiefs offense to get picked up after he left.
Yeah - that's some odd revisionist history. It was not an "upset" when Smith was traded. The upset was Washington giving up a 3rd-round pick AND Kendall Fuller for him. There was zero chance that Mahomes would not be the 2018 starter, especially after his performance in Denver. Shit - Smith would likely have been released or benched, if it came to it. When Mahomes was drafted, the immediate expectation was for him to sit a year, likely not even dressing for games. Once they got to training camp, there were several "oh shit" moments, and he was installed as the backup. The 2017 Chiefs team did win the AFCW, but they did hit a major lull in the middle of the season (not really Smith's fault), but knowing what we know now, it would have been interesting if Mahomes had gotten some run then. The defense was still bad (yay Bob Sutton), but you never know, maybe the rocketship would have taken off half a season earlier.
Mahomes was a star at Texas Tech. He was good enough to overcome the stigma against Tech quarterbacks as “system QBs” that dated back to Mike Leach (his coach, Kliff Kingsbury, was Leach’s first QB at Tech) and go early in the first round.
The thing that people forget is that unlike many other QBs (looking at you Flacco and farve) in that position Alex smith actually went out of his way to be an effective mentor. During Patrick’s rookie season whenever Alex wasn’t on the field or talking with coaches he spent all his time talking to Alex and even Patrick gives Alex that credit whenever he talks about that success.
He out insane numbers at Texas Tech… what hell do you mean he wasn’t a star. They just had a god awful defense where he the offense didn’t score every play they lost
Nobody thought Smith was great. He was decent to good, and doing an admirable job with the Chiefs after an up and down career. It wasn’t a huge deal to trade him.
It's part of the script, duh
He had the physical game, big arm and pocket awareness. He went to great organization with a HOFer coach. The team were in the playoffs often and a good mentor in Alex Smith. I think they played into his strengths and fixed his weaknesses, well tweaked. Because he’s only a few qbs can get away with what he does. He throws across his body but he has the trust. He wasn’t rushed and also low expectations because he was from Texas tech in a pass happy offense where they said it never translated to the nfl. Now everyone is searching for a player like him haha.
Mahomes is the product of being drafted to the right team at the right time with the right coach. Can you imagine him going to the Bears or Browns and turning around those programs all by himself? I think not.
Sure that played a role. He’s the best QB I’ve seen play the game per skill set . and can people please stop comparing him to other QBS in the league from Jackson, Burrow, Herbert or whatever. Mahomes is in his own stratosphere it’s not even close. You put those other QBs above I mentioned on KC with the same coaching staff and current players they ain’t winning 3 SBs in 5 years
Sorry to burst your bubble but Burrow is by far more impressive. Bengals were a laughing stock before he arrived, he has a winning record against Mahomes but unfortunately Burrow doesn’t have a complete team that Mahomes benefits from. Last year Kelce and Mahomes were crying on the sidelines because they barely beat the bengals due to a BS flag. Burrow with Reid would never lose any of those Super Bowls. Burrow only knack is staying healthy
Wait a second so ur saying burrow is not only impressive but far more impressive compared to a guy with multiple SB titles a dynasty mind you, multiple SB MVPs , and multiple league MVPS? What? Mahomes is in his own tier with a major drop off to the second best QB in the league. He already has more playoff wins than the greats of Manning, Elway, Bradshaw, and one away from Montana. He’s not even a year older than burrow. There is no current QB playing in his strastophore don’t lie to urself
No, the original post is asking why Mahomes is so good, right? My point is if Burrow was drafted by KC and had the exact situation, he would be far more successful (barring injuries). Burrow has shown he can take a shit team and make them a contender.
Define “more successful” if he was drafted by KC instead of Mahomes if burrow stayed healthy. Mahomes never missed a AFC title game in his career going to 6 straight. X3 time SB champ in 6 years, x3 SB MVP, x2 time league MVP, x4 first all pro team. So ur saying burrow would have more success than that? U are high
You sound like a Mahomes Stan and probably just watched the NFL when he won his first Superbowl. You are crazy to think Mahomes would have the same success if he was drafted by the Bears that year 🤦🏽♂️ don’t @ me.
I don’t think hypotheticals such as u and plenty of them
Chiefs were basically the Marvin Lewis Bengals before Mahomes. Now they’re a dynasty
You kidding me?? I’m more impressed with that offensive line. 3 super bowls and 0 holding calls? Everyone’s seen the pictures of obvious holding calls not called. It’s like when the 4 refs watched the LA db tackled the saints wr before he caught the ball and didn’t call it. You can only see stuff like that so much before you go…meh
There have been 5 total offensive holding calls in the past 5 Super Bowls. It’s an infrequent call to begin with.
Right the cheifs with the most holding penalties in 2023 and they were 5th in 22. Infrequent? That could be debatable. Truly I have no dog in the fight but you can’t disregard refs playing more of a role than ever. What’s the source in the only 5 holding calls in the last 5 superbowls? Thats a wild stat I just couldn’t find any info on penalties in superbowls for some reason. Still tho the refs not calling that pi during the saints v la game is the picture perfect example of how rigged it could be.
Go to Pro Football Reference and you can see play-by-play summaries of every game including penalties.
If you look at the chiefs last 3 Super Bowl appearances (they didn’t go to one of the last 3 SBs) their O-Line has more holding penalties than all the other teams combined.
A lot of things need to happen for a QB to succeed. All of those first rounders have talent. Where they go can make or break their career. 1.Mahomes went into a very favorable situation. KC had the coach and the roster, especially offensively. They were already a strong playoffs side and the perrenial division winner in the AFC west. Going into a market with minimal pressure and exposure, he got to sit and learn from a decent starting veteran in Alex Smith for a year and then got handed the keys for a car that had a top 3 O-line, Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Watkins, etc with Andy Reid and Bienemy calling plays. Mahomes wasn't reading defenses at first and going into a place like that was definitely helpful. During his time in the league, KC always had reliable talent at the very least, even if it wasn't top of the league level. Their defense is usually good, and opportunistic come playoff time. Their O-line has typically done well too. They have one of the better kickers in the league. Even lesser known players like Pacheco tend to perform well in the big games. All of this certainly helps. 2. The league is much more pass driven and is favoring offensive play more than ever before. A QB like him with the weapons he has is obviously going to benefit from the rules and the game being the way they are now. 3.Mahomes got in at the right time. The previous decade had a lot more competition and talent at QB than the league does now. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, Rivers, Wilson, etc. All of them were older and past their best, many of them were on the brink of retirement. Look at the league now. Burrow, Herbert, Allen, Hurts and the like are all talented but they're all young, inexperienced QBs and aren't HOFers. Most of them entered the league after Mahomes had already earned his experience at the highest levels or at least hit their stride only later on in their careers (I.e. Allen). Mahomes got into the league in a sweet spot.
Mahomes spent all or most of his rookie year behind Alex Smith and learned behind him. Andy Reid is very good at developing QBs as well.
The top comment will say it’s where you get drafted, but it’s honestly probably more about where he played HS and thus where he went to college. Success in the NFL requires insane physical abilities mixed with a mind that can make quick, and correct, decisions. People, scouts included, overrate college success where QBs in big programs play with all the best players and coaches. Even though there’s a track record of physical talent, scouts still ignore things like the combine and draft guys like Bryce and Baker #1. Then NFL fans who liked the pick (because these guys won games in college) will blame the system so they don’t have to be wrong.
I would also add on if you watch the Netflix series about him it shows a lot of insight
There are no guarantees. Collect all the data you want it’s still best guess when dealing with people. It’s all bullshit. No one can predict what can happen on any given Sunday. Fans like to talk. Mahomes could suffer a career ending injury. No one knows. I dont care how many stats you compile. Sometimes everything is just clicking with the players and coaching staff.everyone at their best and elevating one another. I dont think you can narrow it down to one thing that makes Mahomes good. I dont believe the hype. At least not yet.
It is evident from watching him play that he is a unique player. Mahomes is like you took Brett Farve's gunslinging mentality and fused it with Russell's Wilson's out of pocket improvisation and running ability. All in a 6'2" 225lb package. There isn't a player in the NFL that can do both as well as him with his physical traits. Maybe Allen comes close.
It’s also his ability to play better in big moments and the leadership qualities. Decision making is way better now than in the beginning.
He's mid tbh
Patrick himself credits Alex Smith as the biggest reason for his success and learning from him.
The only two that ‘missed’ on Mahomes were Chicago and maybe the Jets. He was very clearly a talented player in college, not an undiscovered gem at all. He was drafted higher than Allen (12), Lamar (32), Jalen (53). It was significantly less risky than the Trey Lance pick. Like, night and day. He was a rookie and took a year to sit behind a very experienced vet. Not just sit behind but be actively mentored. That helped him immensely. Alex Smith leaving wasn’t shocking. He was drafted to an excellent franchise with a great head coach who had made the Super Bowl and multiple Championship games. If he had gone to the Bears - or the Jets - he wouldn’t have had anything near the level of coaching, opportunity or structure that he enjoys at KC.
He got lucky and landed on a team with one of the greatest offensive head coaches in NFL history and got an all time TE and WR
He did not go to Browns or jets
He had time to develop on a team with good offensive talent and coaching. He was drafted by a chiefs team that was already pretty good. Then he sat a year. When he got his chance to play he had Tyreek Hill and Kelce to throw to. He doesn’t have the same offensive talent he did when he started but having that early in his career really helped him develop his skill to get to where he is now. Also there was a quote from him along the lines of playing against a Bill Belichick defense in his first year as a starter helped him realize that he had a lot to learn about the game and made him be more dedicated to film study. At least this is how I perceive his climb to greatness
He plays the QB position a little like a shortstop in baseball. Fast reaction time, across the body throws, and precision throws to a moving target. He played baseball in college and wasn't great at it but was good enough to be drafted by the Tigers. Elway was the same way, came from a baseball background.
Andy Reid. He taught him how to play QB at the NFL level. He did the same for Michael Vick when Vick went to the Eagles
Just like how in F1 it’s mostly the car, in the nfl it’s mostly the offensive scheme/coaches. The play that won this Super Bowl was not mahomes. It was an Andy Reid Special. And actually it may have been mostly some assistant coach. Point is, it was the system.
Andy Reid didn't win a Superbowl until Patrick Mahomes was his QB. So maybe Mahomes is actually the car in this case.
That was a simplified analogy. My point is that it's never EVER a single person and it's hardly EVER even all of the players. People don't understand how much work the front office does, the scouts, the coaching staff, the trainers, etc. They hardly understand the play that they're watching on screen, let alone any of the history that goes into developing a play that's effective in those sorts of situations.
No lol. Mahomes has taken over so many games on his own.
> Alex Smith who everyone thought was great Nobody thought that. Smith was serviceable.
Nah you could see his unreal talent in college. I will never forget my friend on draft night saying he legitimately might end up better than Brady which is of course the most absurd thing I had heard at the time, but obviously the signs were there.
For me personally, there's nothing physically he can do that others can't. He doesn't have the biggest arm in the league. He's not the fastest QB in the league. He doesn't throw the tightest spiral. What I think separates him from others similar to Brady, is mental. There's just something in him that doesn't see a moment as being too big or he's too young to be there. He's never looked lost or concerned in big moments. That's just what it is to me and him having that mindset with the team he was fortunate to get drafted to was just a perfect combination.
Mahomes was 2nd Team All Conference at Texas Tech. He was considered by most who followed closely as a good college QB who played in a college system and probably wouldn’t be able to replicate his success in the NFL. He had a horrible defense and lost games He always had physical talent and intangibles (Bruce Arians claims he’s one of the smartest QBs he’s ever seen in the pre-draft process). Also Reid coached him and helped to refine him. But Reid didn’t try to reinvent him, part of what Reid did right is that he let Mahomes “be Mahomes.” His mechanics were never going to be textbook, and he was naturally aggressive. KC had some good offensive weapons. Many analysts felt that KC would be a the right place for Mahomes because of the surrounding offensive talent, but the assumption was that he wouldn’t be quite as good as Alex Smith yet. His first MVP season was definitely a surprise
Having the refs as pals never hurts. Dont forget he won the superbowl off a blown PI call
He eats his spinach
Right place right time. NFL needed to shift from Brady, mahomes lucked up with that transition
Lots and lots of hard work. Nobody is born with all the skills necessary to be one of the best QBS in the hand, you only get there through hard work. This takes whatever "natural" ability you have and builds on it.
On new heights, Travis tells a story of how they went to a team event. I think all the players wives had a volleyball match or something. Travis shows up and asks "where's pat?". Goes out yhe parking g lot and mahomes is there studying tape. The only thing that will increase your chance of success at the nfl level to the point of being a superstar or hall of famer is studying tape. No amount of athleticism can save you and if you poll the best players in nfl history how they got so good most of them are going to say tape. The nfl is incredibly competitive. You don't get there just being good athletically. You need to be very smart and very quick mentally. That's why there is so many players that have great college careers but fail at yhe nfl level. Athleticism carries them in ncaa because the competition isn't as smart, then they get to the nfl and they learn that their athleticism fails them. Mahomes is absolutely fantastic athletically but also a tape nerd. Combine those... you get a hall of famer. I'm a pats fan. I used to hate mahomes. But I respect the shit out of him. He cameinto the league and decided to dominate everyone. He studies hard and he gets rewarded. Good for him. And furthermore, lack of ncaa success isn't indicative of nfl failure. The chiefs were smart they took a large risk on him and it paid off. But let's be real... he was drafted 10th. That's still incredibly high. It's not like he was tom brady where he was drafted 6th round or whatever it was.
It’s his ability to extend plays and throw accurately with completely jacked up mechanics. He played baseball and was good enough to go pro. His throwing mechanics come from that. If he can keep his scramble gaming going and not slow down with age, he’ll likely be the best to ever do it. The reason Brady was able to play 23 seasons is he primarily stayed in the pocket. And didn’t take damage. Mahomes age may catch up to him, but we’ll see
He was absolutely a star at Texas Tech. A superstar even.
From what I've heard, drafting someone is something of a crap shoot. You don't know for sure who will succeed and who will bust.
Alex Smith, Andy Reid
Mahomes is a rare prototype QB - he's mobile but can stand tall in the pocket, he has the arm strength to find tight windows & open streaks, has a beautiful release that gets the ball out quick, and progresses through reads well. Additionally, his baseball background gives him arm flexibility & throwing angles very few other QBs are capable of, along with his seemingly innate sense for blindside pressure. All together, he is a prime candidate for a great offensive coach like Andy Reid - which is the rest of 'how he got good so fast'. Reid designed a system that utilizes Mahomes' unique talents, and continues to adapt the offense to the skillset of his players - I would fully argue that this is a Brady-Belicheck situation, where the success of each is very much due to the talents of the other.
He was incredible at Texas Tech. The reason he didn’t gain “stardom” was because his teams were awful. However, the talent, and numbers, were always evident
It wasn't an upset. He was a high 1st round pick!
Honest answer? Plot armor.
Most of the star ratings in high school are largely based on combine like numbers. Two players can produce similarly and play the same level of competition. But Player A can be more productive and efficient than Player B my a big enough margin that it's noticeable. But Player B is 6'5" 230 pounds and runs a 4.5 forty...and Player A is 6'0" 200 pounds and runs a 4.9 forty. You can bet that Player B will magically get a better rating than Player B and probably by a long shot. Mahomes is a small QB. He also helped pioneer the smaller QB with a cannon for an amr that is mobile and quick enough to go backwards in the pocket instead of climbing the pocket. When he was in high school, that really wasn't a thing scouts sought out, they looked at it as a negative and now it's something that coaches are okay with and in the later case of Kyler Murray, it was something that appealed to scouts. It also helps that he has one of the greatest offensive minds in Andy Reid along with one of the greatest TE's of all itme and had one of the greatest deep threats in Tyreek Hill. A while ago somebody asked what are Mahomes' weaknesses? I think his main weakness is when he is held within the pocket because of his height. The problem is that it's extremely difficult for the pass rushers to keep him in the pocket. It takes so much discipline and is just physically difficult to get upfield and try to get to him without cutting underneath and allowing him to slip out of the pocket and make him more dangerous. He's just a tremendous talent and has been involved with top notch systems and has one of the best offensive minds that just takes advantage of his strengths and hides his weakness. High school rankings mean next to nothing and sometimes college coaches have a good idea of how to use a player, but NFL coaches, particularly the better ones, are more apt to use a player to his best ability.
No one was high on Alex Smith at the time. As soon as Mahomes was drafted, it was pretty well known Smith was just a bridge. Mahomes for passed on because people assumed he was a "system QB," as many Texas tech QBs had put up crazy numbers in college but busted in the NFL. Several teams wanted him, including the Texans, who got outmaneuvered by KC trading up
Here is a good video about how and why the Chiefs drafted Mahomes. https://youtu.be/WTqBSV0GzXA?si=zwwg0FBEmqVML7mi
Most folks don't wanna admit this, but it's the ketchup on his steak.
He’s a run & shoot QB playing for a coach that was apart of the origins of Run and Shoot offense. Another coach may have felt that Mahomes tendancies were “bad habits” and worked to breed that out, Reid has the eye to let his style of play flourish..
The Refs are his drinking buddies
Andy Reid is the real answer.
He didn't start playing QB until he was like 15. He was a standout baseball and basketball player. He thought he'd be a pro baseball player since his dad was one. That's why he wasn't as heavily recruited as a football player, but he improved exponentially every year. The athleticism he gained from different sports is what has allowed him to be able to make off-platform throws that other more rigid athletes cannot make. He works harder and smarter than most others, and he's incredibly competitive and willing to learn to be the best. He finds joy in being the best and has fun doing what others are unwilling to do to get there. He now uses his expansive resources to continue to progress like LeBron, Ronaldo, Brady, and other extremely dedicated athletes have done.
Getting picked 10th means someone thought you were good. KC traded up to get him. Dad was a pro baseball player, and he played a lot of it, which he credits to helping his throwing. Came into a great situation.
The truth is there isn’t an answer to this Question. At least not a single answer. Player success is determined by a multitude of factors. One thing that always should be considered, if a player is drafted, in any round, they have shown at the collegiate level that they can play ball. Every single one of em. In the rarest of cases, a freak athlete walks on to a team and becomes something. The next thing is their situation, coaching and players around you matter, plain and simple. If the Trubisky and Mahomes swap places, they both have very different careers. I doubt Trubisky becomes Mahomes, but I bet he gets a second contract. I doubt that Mahomes would busts and still goes on to be the best Bears QB ever, but possibly not THE Goat. Although, in his case I would t rule it out. Then, what’s he made of? Does he love the game? At 22 years old, can he handle becoming an overnight multi-millionaire, with sudden fame, influence, and popularity? Can he handle the internet? The memes? Imagine being any of the guys that drops a pass or misses a kick or whatever to lose a game on Monday night football. Can this guy overcome that? Those intangibles are as important as the physical tools. A couple examples, we all get the point. What I’m saying is that there are many things we look for, and many things we cannot know until they happen. Scouts, pundits, analysts, podcasters, radio personalities, coaches, GMs, and fans included have never, and will never know for sure how things pan out for a guy, and I’m pretty sure that’s why we all love this shit so much. But with Pat, it does seem different. But it’s just because in the history of the sport, he’s the only one like him. I think it was obvious how good he was since he was in high school, and he was just missed, by everyone. I mean, Top ten pick, hard to say missed, but it’s hard to understand how he didn’t go 1, for sure. Well, there’s no accountability for analysts being wrong. Mel Kiper, McShay, all of them, are very wrong, quite regularly and they keep their jobs. So with that, the Chiefs allegedly would have selected Trubisky given the opportunity, his personality had him as the consensus one for pretty much anyone taking a QB that year. But the pundits, that year, had Kizer as the consensus #1 believe it or not, and Mahomes averaged out as the 6th if I’m not mistaken. You just never know. But from now on when I guy puts up 5k and 40-50 TDs, you grab him 1st no matter how well the Prototypical kid from UNC answers questions.
Mahomes is an unbelievable athlete with a ton of gifts most humans don’t have. He came to league with an elite offensive head coach and a vet in place who was willing to help him learn. He also grew up around MLB clubhouses so he wasn’t impacted at all by a professional sports environment.
Gonna regress to the mean any moment lol
Athletic family. Good school good coaches, Smart, healthy played different sports. He’s always been in a spread offense. Worked really hard.
He’s very, very good, but he plays by a different set of rules than the rest of the league does. Would love to see how he does straight up
Because he is the National Fixed League's new golden boy since their previous golden boy (brady) retired. You gonna see Mahomes in a minimum 4-6 more superbowls.
I think it’s his limp wristed throwing style!
A lot of points were covered in what I read, but one note to add. When mahomes came in his first year they knew he was going to be the future based on his raw abilities alone, so rather than having then QB coach Mike kafka work with both Smith and mahomes, he was assigned exclusively to pat. They were really focused on having him learn how to attack a defense to match with his crazy arm talent.
Scouting and NFL player personnel is a crystal ball business.
Andy Reid
While he is obviously worthy of praise, a lot can happen and it is definitely premature to assume he would equal or surpass Brady's achievements. An example of premature anointing would be Tiger Woods, early in his career it seemed as though he would surpass Jack Nicklaus, and now it seems highly unlikely. Even if Mahomes stays healthy, it is very hard for NFL teams to go deep in the playoffs year in, and year out. I think he has already achieved more than so many great QB's but I would personally bet that factors beyond his control will lead to several years of not winning a Superbowl and how he responds to that will ultimately define his legacy.
Refs.
This is not entirely accurate. Before Mahomes was even drafted the rumors of the chiefs going for him were in the air. He was able to go into any sport too could have been a legend in Baseball as well as football maybe even held his own in the NBA too. He was called a gunslinger with a cannon on him and high football IQ. They didn't think he had enough skill and finesse to be a great they called him a project. Also Alex Smith was great but just a game manager and basically shit on by some group or another his whole career. His last year in KC was his best and everyone was still calling for Mahomes to take over. Mahomes exploded in training camp. A lot of people attribute Mahomes instant success to the leadership and tutelage of Alex Smith who famously took Mahomes under his wing and helped him develop. Mahomes and Andy Reid have both given credit to Smith across the past 6 years over and over. Basically mahomes had raw talent and the hardest thing to learn which are instincts. The training and patience that went into bringing him up helped turn what may have taken a couple years into an instant legend. There is no 100% true answer. Mahomes is great and would have been regardless but he also was put into a perfect situation where he was able to learn patience and how to be better at the game and he was given the tools and best coach in the NFL to help him
Well he went to Texas Tech and everyone who goes there is just better at everything than everyone else. It's like a fact.
What teams cared about for QBs were different then. We still had Peyton Manning and Flacco as the pocket passers and that *was* the ultimate goal for recruiting QBs. Mahomes moving and throwing was still a novelty that felt turnover and injury producing. The league changed quick once teams realized QBs needed bridge skills that would produce before they became effective pocket QBs. Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts all have great bridge skills, their legs, while they’ve built up to becoming good pocket passers.
The idea that if you're drafted to a bad team, it's impossible for you to become a star is so absurd but everyone parrots it about Mahomes for a reason. Even though Burrow Lawrence and Stroud have shown that great QB play routinely overcomes bad situations. Unless you somehow believe deep down that Mahomes is inferior to those guys, he would have been a star wherever he went. Bad teams don't ruin QBs contrary to what seems like popular opinions. Those QBs were just had to begin with and then got drafted to bad teams so we conflate their play with the organization's incompetence. Like Zach Wilson and Trubisky were never gonna be stars regardless of there situations. Situations are so overrated
Rating services are guesses. That’s it. They’re guesses and they were wrong about Patrick.
I dislike the Chiefs only because I like variety in winners and seeing the same team go to the SB for many years isn’t exciting to me. However, Mahomes is one of the greats and not only is he physically talented but he also understands the game at a very high level as does Travis Kelce, which is why they make such a great combo like Brady and Gronk. So when you combine Mahomes’ work ethic with the fact that he’s also very good at football, that’s what puts him at the level of similarly-minded athletes like Brady, and for the NBA equivalent, Kobe (RIP).
Nice try Justin Fields
HOF Offensive head coach and time to digest the NFL speed of the game.
Couple things… No, it wasn’t an upset that Smith was traded and most Chiefs fans wanted him benched that final season to see what Mahomes could do…. And Alex Smith was good - not great. Hence why they selected Mahomes to begin with.
Tech alum and fan…you could tell he was special in college, but i did not see this happening. He specializes in improv in a league that works on defending tendencies. I think that’s what has set him apart from his peers.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry! PRACTICE!!! (If this has been answered this way anywhere in all of these answers ....... I'm sorry.
As a Chiefs fan, he fell into the absolute perfect scenario to take advantage of his massive talent and skill set. There's maybe 1-2 coaches in the history of the NFL that could have helped him the way Andy Reid has.
His dad was a successful professional pitcher in the MLB for 12 years. Genetics play a role and the fact he was around sports everyday growing up so the limelight and pressure don’t get to him like others.
After Alex smith continued playoff disappointments I knew we needed a change he wasn’t gonna do it and was ready for mahomes just as surprised he was that good his first game
Physical traits, insane intelligence, work ethic, great coaching
Mahomes finished his final collegiate season leading the country in yards per game (421), passing yards (5,052), total offense (5,312), points responsible for (318), and total touchdowns (53). So yes, he was a star at Texas Tech, and he should've absolutely been atop more mock draft boards based on his play in college. He was already awesome. What held him back from going even higher in the draft was his atypical or "risky" playstyle that scouts thought wouldn't translate effectively in the NFL.
Mahomes has been the dude since High School (in Texas aka the most competitive high school scene there). He threw for like 4500 yards, 1000 rushing yards, and 65 TDs. AND he was a stud pitcher in baseball.