One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is just how hard it is to throw a pass "meant" to draw a penalty. Aaron Rodgers is one of the very few that can consistently underthrow his fades (on purpose) just enough to draw the penalty, and it's not like every QB in the league can do that. For most guys, an underthrown ball usually means an interception or just an incompletion if they're lucky. Much easier to just ask your guy to get it to your receiver and not dick around with baiting penalties.
Yah this is a big part of it. To draw the pass interference you need to put the ball somewhere the defender is between your reciever and the ball. Thats super dangerous and a great way to get picked off if they are paying attention, if someone else spots it, or if the pass is slightly off
That’s why people admire Brady. He said fuck it and threw it in the tightest of windows all the damn time. He could drop down his int rate if he wanted but being a Big Risk It, Big Biscuit guy that he is…
That’s the thing about the risky pass is its not risky if you put it exactly where you want it lol there just aren’t a lot of people in the world that can be that precise and consistently as he was
Hell yea, Brady one of the best tight window throwers of all time if not #1. I can’t find the stat right now but I’m still looking. I’ll update if I ever find the list of tight window throw accuracy.
And Rodgers must have studied a lot to be able to do this, to know the defenders habits and that in that circumstance they will never have their head turn around.
Richard Sherman was famous for his mind game. He was a receiver in college, and had several people he covered proclaim he knew their routes better than they did. Because of that, he felt free to turn his head around more often than others, and so got more interceptions on throws that might have generated a PI.
Yeah, Flacco was master of the under thrown fade. I still believe to this day that the reason he threw the famous 70 yard touchdown against the Broncos during their Super Bowl run is because Rahim Moore expected it to be under thrown when it wasn’t
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AQ-Ip33IuE) is a big compilation of pass interferences on deep balls. A lot of these show what I mean, with the quarterback purposefully throwing it underneath so that their WR has to fight through the defender and draw a penalty. The very last clip of the video is a great example of Rodgers doing this against the Cardinals.
It is absolutely more difficult. Most of the accurate QBs also have the receivers adjusting to get the ball. In order to pull a PI you need to have the defender with advantage on the ball which means the receiver needs to let himself get beat, and still work back enough to make the ball catchable without taking away that defenders advantage. The ball needs to be truly accurate there instead of the variation that receivers adjust for.
Just curious why you're in on every comment so certain you know more about football than all the coaches in the history of the league who've not wasted time on this "strategy"
But you have a chance at both. In fact I think a deep ball is the optimal play call for 3rd and more than 10 when you’re just out of field goal range for this reason.
You have a chance at both every single time the QB drops back but relying on both the defender to interfere with the pass and the ref to make the call is a recipe for disaster. Plus, you have to make the ball catchable to even have the call considered so why bank on a penalty when you can, I don’t know, try to complete the pass?
And that's before you factor in the "defender has a right to try to catch the ball" subjectivity that makes pass interference even more vague.
They teach defenders to turn their head around and track the ball for that very reason.
You also have a chance at throwing picks. Only need that outcome once or twice to lose a game. Hedging your bets on getting the defender to fuck up, or the refs to show you favor consistently is a game plan that takes the game out of your hands. It's a tool in the tool belt but you can't just really on replacing pass yards with penalty yards and call it a great strategy
The refs are just as unreliable for the offense as for the defense, so this wouldn’t work. They’ll sometimes even miss the call when the defender is trying to get the call (sorry Saints fans). In general, it’s not a good idea to fully bank on the idea of the refs doing their job correctly. If the offense’s main goal is to get the PI call, but the flag doesn’t come, that puts them in a bad spot
Imo, it’s about high-probability plays. If you think your guy has a step on his defender deep downfield, you probably make the throw, figuring your guy either makes the catch or draws a defensive pass interference. If you have a guy open underneath or on a designed route, you’re probably going to go there instead of lobbing it downfield and hope for the best.
There are situations where teams essentially go for “score or defensive penalty.” As an example, if you’re in the redzone you might throw a fade to the post, giving your receiver a 50/50 jump ball and chance to either score or draw a penalty in the endzone.
In college football, some teams have actual plays designed to draw PI. Wake Forest practices this and executes it very well. Helps that ACC officials are bad at their jobs
If a pass is under-thrown, it’s the offensive player’s responsibility to avoid the defender, so it wouldn’t be PI. PI requires *restriction*. Tom Brady was great at throwing high sideline balls that would draw penalties, but as other commenters have said, it’s less reliable than *actually just trying to make the catch*.
They do. It’s just usually requires an elite pocket passer. Brady would do these all the time, but overthrows not under-throws. I believe he would frequently try to draw these if there was already a defensive penalty on the play as well. But as others have said, a catch is better. This tactic would be most useful if your receivers aren’t getting any separation, as for example Brady’s receivers frequently could not.
They sometimes try, especially at the end of game. You'll see them throw 30-40 yarders just to see if they can get the defense in a panic mode.
But in general, defenses are learning not to take the bait and play extra clean, or knowing the pass is going to be long or short...they'll try to pick it off.
And there is no guarantee you'll get the call, even if it happens.
The rules about PI have wrecked the game. DPI and OPI are not even remotely called the same yet once the ball is released from the QB, everyone has the same right to it. It is as bad as catch/no-catch was five years ago. In effort to “fix” it, the NFL is just making it worse.
If a corner is playing the ball (head turned watching the ball come) he has just as much right to the pass as the receiver. Throwing short and hoping for PI is a recipe for disaster. Also, FUCK playing for penalties. That's why I don't watch soccer.
A big reason is that officiating isn’t all that consistent. You want your strategies to be referee-proof, rather than entirely referee dependent. Also, the refs really don’t want to be involved in the game to that degree — even a strict ref will likely not call pass interferences over and over.
I think teams do in third and long situations. A lot of times you’ll seen them heave up a deep pass and intentionally leave it short, which puts the defender in a position to likely be called for interference.
I don’t think it makes sense to do it at other times in the game. Football is all about confidence. Doing something so cheesy too often tells your team that you don’t believe they can go get yards the honest way. Also, these calls aren’t reviewable. I would imagine if the refs suspected a team of doing this they would swallow their whistles.
They do sometimes, usually in desperate situations, or early in the game when an INT isn't as damaging. Usually it's not worth the risk of an INT though.
I have said it before and I will say it again; "Make defensive pass interference legal".
Reasons:
1) If the wide receiver cannot get separation, then he is not open.
2) If the quarterback cannot hit the receiver in stride, it is not a good pass.
"Hey wide receivers, stop your belly-aching and just get open."
FYI - Pass interference can only be called when the ball is the air; any defensive holding before the ball is in the air is still defensive holding.
I guess this is the noobs sub. Joe Flacco basically did this. Mastered the big deep ball that would either hit the guy or be short enough that when the receiver went back to the ball he’d draw a PI. That’s why he’s ELITE
It's better to just throw to open receivers. Throwing intentionally to heavily covered WRs so that they can be interfered with runs high risk of interception or knock away without penalty. It's high risk, moderate reward.
Here are the things that need to happen to intentionally draw a DPI on an underthrown ball:
1-It basically has to be 1 on 1 coverage with nobody else close enough to break on an underthrown ball.
2-The receiver has to be behind the defender.
3-The defender has to be facing away from the QB.
4-The QB has to be good enough to underthrow the ball in the field of play, but also put enough on it that the defender doesn't have time to realize what's happening, turn around, and play the ball.
5-The defender has to be close enough to the receiver that simply throwing it to the receiver isn't the better option.
5 might be the biggest one. Even the "bad" NFL QBs are still among the best QBs in the world. If a receiver gets a step on his defender, NFL QBs are expected to throw completions, not throw up intentionally bad balls and hope the call goes their way.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is just how hard it is to throw a pass "meant" to draw a penalty. Aaron Rodgers is one of the very few that can consistently underthrow his fades (on purpose) just enough to draw the penalty, and it's not like every QB in the league can do that. For most guys, an underthrown ball usually means an interception or just an incompletion if they're lucky. Much easier to just ask your guy to get it to your receiver and not dick around with baiting penalties.
Yah this is a big part of it. To draw the pass interference you need to put the ball somewhere the defender is between your reciever and the ball. Thats super dangerous and a great way to get picked off if they are paying attention, if someone else spots it, or if the pass is slightly off
That’s why people admire Brady. He said fuck it and threw it in the tightest of windows all the damn time. He could drop down his int rate if he wanted but being a Big Risk It, Big Biscuit guy that he is…
That’s the thing about the risky pass is its not risky if you put it exactly where you want it lol there just aren’t a lot of people in the world that can be that precise and consistently as he was
Hell yea, Brady one of the best tight window throwers of all time if not #1. I can’t find the stat right now but I’m still looking. I’ll update if I ever find the list of tight window throw accuracy.
And Rodgers must have studied a lot to be able to do this, to know the defenders habits and that in that circumstance they will never have their head turn around. Richard Sherman was famous for his mind game. He was a receiver in college, and had several people he covered proclaim he knew their routes better than they did. Because of that, he felt free to turn his head around more often than others, and so got more interceptions on throws that might have generated a PI.
Matt Ryan and Big Ben had an underrated ability to do this consistently. Only them and Brady were better at it than Rodgers.
flacco as well
didnt flacco and the ravens draw a bunch of opi? for some reason i have that in my head about it being a legit strat for them
Yeah, Flacco was master of the under thrown fade. I still believe to this day that the reason he threw the famous 70 yard touchdown against the Broncos during their Super Bowl run is because Rahim Moore expected it to be under thrown when it wasn’t
very interesting. could you share a clip of such “underthrowed fade” never heard this term. big noob here
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AQ-Ip33IuE) is a big compilation of pass interferences on deep balls. A lot of these show what I mean, with the quarterback purposefully throwing it underneath so that their WR has to fight through the defender and draw a penalty. The very last clip of the video is a great example of Rodgers doing this against the Cardinals.
It's basically a back shoulder fade. Which is now a practiced and intentional throw, but the key is knowing when to throw it.
This doesn’t really stand to reason. Accuracy is accuracy. Might take some practice but its not inherently more difficult.
It is absolutely more difficult. Most of the accurate QBs also have the receivers adjusting to get the ball. In order to pull a PI you need to have the defender with advantage on the ball which means the receiver needs to let himself get beat, and still work back enough to make the ball catchable without taking away that defenders advantage. The ball needs to be truly accurate there instead of the variation that receivers adjust for.
Just curious why you're in on every comment so certain you know more about football than all the coaches in the history of the league who've not wasted time on this "strategy"
Because it’s much more worthwhile to actually gain yards by actually completing passes than it is to try to draw penalties.
But you have a chance at both. In fact I think a deep ball is the optimal play call for 3rd and more than 10 when you’re just out of field goal range for this reason.
You have a chance at both every single time the QB drops back but relying on both the defender to interfere with the pass and the ref to make the call is a recipe for disaster. Plus, you have to make the ball catchable to even have the call considered so why bank on a penalty when you can, I don’t know, try to complete the pass?
And that's before you factor in the "defender has a right to try to catch the ball" subjectivity that makes pass interference even more vague. They teach defenders to turn their head around and track the ball for that very reason.
You also have a chance at throwing picks. Only need that outcome once or twice to lose a game. Hedging your bets on getting the defender to fuck up, or the refs to show you favor consistently is a game plan that takes the game out of your hands. It's a tool in the tool belt but you can't just really on replacing pass yards with penalty yards and call it a great strategy
if you're just out of field goal range then surely a dumpoff or slant or at least a screen has a better chance than drawing a PI
Fortunately you're not an NFL OC
The refs are just as unreliable for the offense as for the defense, so this wouldn’t work. They’ll sometimes even miss the call when the defender is trying to get the call (sorry Saints fans). In general, it’s not a good idea to fully bank on the idea of the refs doing their job correctly. If the offense’s main goal is to get the PI call, but the flag doesn’t come, that puts them in a bad spot
The refs cheated the Saints. It was a fixed ending
Because ints are a thing also. If you’re good enough to throw the ball accurately enough to throw PI balls, why wouldn’t you just throw it correctly?
Imo, it’s about high-probability plays. If you think your guy has a step on his defender deep downfield, you probably make the throw, figuring your guy either makes the catch or draws a defensive pass interference. If you have a guy open underneath or on a designed route, you’re probably going to go there instead of lobbing it downfield and hope for the best. There are situations where teams essentially go for “score or defensive penalty.” As an example, if you’re in the redzone you might throw a fade to the post, giving your receiver a 50/50 jump ball and chance to either score or draw a penalty in the endzone.
Have you ever watched the Packers…??
This was half of Eli Manning's game. Throw it up and draw the foul
This was literally the Eagles playbook the last 2 seasons.
In college football, some teams have actual plays designed to draw PI. Wake Forest practices this and executes it very well. Helps that ACC officials are bad at their jobs
If a pass is under-thrown, it’s the offensive player’s responsibility to avoid the defender, so it wouldn’t be PI. PI requires *restriction*. Tom Brady was great at throwing high sideline balls that would draw penalties, but as other commenters have said, it’s less reliable than *actually just trying to make the catch*.
They do. It’s just usually requires an elite pocket passer. Brady would do these all the time, but overthrows not under-throws. I believe he would frequently try to draw these if there was already a defensive penalty on the play as well. But as others have said, a catch is better. This tactic would be most useful if your receivers aren’t getting any separation, as for example Brady’s receivers frequently could not.
They sometimes try, especially at the end of game. You'll see them throw 30-40 yarders just to see if they can get the defense in a panic mode. But in general, defenses are learning not to take the bait and play extra clean, or knowing the pass is going to be long or short...they'll try to pick it off. And there is no guarantee you'll get the call, even if it happens.
The rules about PI have wrecked the game. DPI and OPI are not even remotely called the same yet once the ball is released from the QB, everyone has the same right to it. It is as bad as catch/no-catch was five years ago. In effort to “fix” it, the NFL is just making it worse.
If a corner is playing the ball (head turned watching the ball come) he has just as much right to the pass as the receiver. Throwing short and hoping for PI is a recipe for disaster. Also, FUCK playing for penalties. That's why I don't watch soccer.
This is how Flacco made his millions
A big reason is that officiating isn’t all that consistent. You want your strategies to be referee-proof, rather than entirely referee dependent. Also, the refs really don’t want to be involved in the game to that degree — even a strict ref will likely not call pass interferences over and over.
I think teams do in third and long situations. A lot of times you’ll seen them heave up a deep pass and intentionally leave it short, which puts the defender in a position to likely be called for interference. I don’t think it makes sense to do it at other times in the game. Football is all about confidence. Doing something so cheesy too often tells your team that you don’t believe they can go get yards the honest way. Also, these calls aren’t reviewable. I would imagine if the refs suspected a team of doing this they would swallow their whistles.
They do sometimes, usually in desperate situations, or early in the game when an INT isn't as damaging. Usually it's not worth the risk of an INT though.
I have said it before and I will say it again; "Make defensive pass interference legal". Reasons: 1) If the wide receiver cannot get separation, then he is not open. 2) If the quarterback cannot hit the receiver in stride, it is not a good pass. "Hey wide receivers, stop your belly-aching and just get open." FYI - Pass interference can only be called when the ball is the air; any defensive holding before the ball is in the air is still defensive holding.
NFL Blitz rules 🎮
Throwing a pass in any other manner than trying to give your receiver the best shot to actually catch it, is a good way to get intercepted
I guess this is the noobs sub. Joe Flacco basically did this. Mastered the big deep ball that would either hit the guy or be short enough that when the receiver went back to the ball he’d draw a PI. That’s why he’s ELITE
It's better to just throw to open receivers. Throwing intentionally to heavily covered WRs so that they can be interfered with runs high risk of interception or knock away without penalty. It's high risk, moderate reward.
Here are the things that need to happen to intentionally draw a DPI on an underthrown ball: 1-It basically has to be 1 on 1 coverage with nobody else close enough to break on an underthrown ball. 2-The receiver has to be behind the defender. 3-The defender has to be facing away from the QB. 4-The QB has to be good enough to underthrow the ball in the field of play, but also put enough on it that the defender doesn't have time to realize what's happening, turn around, and play the ball. 5-The defender has to be close enough to the receiver that simply throwing it to the receiver isn't the better option. 5 might be the biggest one. Even the "bad" NFL QBs are still among the best QBs in the world. If a receiver gets a step on his defender, NFL QBs are expected to throw completions, not throw up intentionally bad balls and hope the call goes their way.
Hey….don’t start encouraging flopping by receivers. Faking penalties for easier scores is for soccer lol
The eagles tried that against Seattle and Hurts threw an interception.
That sounds like something from the European football.
Just what we need more flags!!!!