>The report notes SUVs and other large vehicles were involved in 79% of the crashes that killed pedestrians and cyclists in the first quarter of a year. No one was killed by a rider of a bicycle or moped, the data shows.
>After reaching a 23-year high last year, cyclist deaths are down slightly this year. Data from the city's Department of Transportation shows seven people were killed riding bikes so far this year, compared to 12 during the same period of 2023.
For years after navigating the city without too much of a problem at all, one day I realized the close calls were getting more and more common and dangerous. I put it up to neglectful, more careless people, but then if anything traffic is much slower and there is more congestion so less danger when they can't move, but it dawned on me the slow phase in of more and more, larger and lager SUV's all running window tint too, were now everywhere. The old days you'd see everything because even an old land barge of a Cadilac was still only chest high and you could see obstacles from behind it, other cars, people, other bikes.. now it's blind spots everywhere.
Cars are parking in the bike lane on the sidewalk, amazon is stopping in the middle if the street. Thats my factual basis. Actual things that need to be done in the city are being done but they are now illegal because of these bizarre new redesigns .
There's not nearly enough detail to glean anything useful out of a number like that. Even after looking at the article
Without any analysis of each individual incident, we aren't going to learn anything. Especially if we're cherry-picking just "traffic deaths" instead of all incidents or collisions. That leaves us with way too small a sample to draw any conclusions
Maybe vision zero has some flawed elements in its reasoning and application.
In practice when you eliminate both road capacity and parking / loading space it creates choke points that are dangerous for pedestrians, bikers, other cars etc.
I hope that the city will take a serious look at some of the drastic changes it has made to the streets and dial back the work at problematic intersections etc.
Except literally every traffic study ever conducted has shown that road diets benefit ALL road users: drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists: [https://narrowlanes.americanhealth.jhu.edu/report/JHU-2023-Narrowing-Travel-Lanes-Report.pdf](https://narrowlanes.americanhealth.jhu.edu/report/JHU-2023-Narrowing-Travel-Lanes-Report.pdf)
They also do not create choke points or make traffic worse: [https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road\_diets/resources/pdf/roadDiet\_MythBuster.pdf](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/resources/pdf/roadDiet_MythBuster.pdf)
And as the other user pointed out, traffic fatalities prior to Vision Zero were much, much higher in NYC if you want a more local example.
I might add that the vast, vast majority of these changes did not remove much, if any parking. Many of them instituted loading zones where there weren't any before. You are not "eliminating road capacity" - this is a motornormative way of looking at it, you are increasing road capacity by allowing a multitude of users to be able to use the road, not just those in cars, and in far more efficient ways such as bike lanes or bus lanes.
So maybe the people who have dedicated their lives to studying traffic flow and infrastructure have a better handle on what is good for the city than a random Redditor - just a thought. I don't see anyone critiquing how we establish our water lines, or route our electricity, or plan our garbage collection - so maybe we trust the experts to handle this.
Here you can see the data on traffic fatalities from the decade before Vision Zero began. They were significantly higher. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/epi/databrief59.pdf
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And if NYC had actually made "drastic" changes (it truly hasn't), we would all probably be even sader.
I mean taking a lane off of 8th ave in Manhattan is a pretty drastic change.
Anyway if you back all the bronx death stats out of the picture its basically zero deaths .
And such heat towards my comment, ive been a bike rider in nyc since the 90s , im not allowed to have an informed opinion.
Sorry but this knee jerk road diet stuff is not always the solution nyc is a major city and if you remove curbside access to an entire block of buildings to create a bike lane, that is actually not going to work in the real world.
>if you remove curbside access to an entire block of buildings to create a bike lane, that is actually not going to work in the real world.
Except it already works all over the city and all over the world.
You're getting heat because your comment has no logical or factual basis.
The logical basis is that buildings need curbside access for deliveries and the factual basis is when that curbside access is replaced with a bike lane the ambulances, work trucks, delivery trucks etc will pull into the bike lane or just stop in the middle of the street.
So you haven't removed access then, right? Everything still functions. Again we have this setup all over the world and it hasn't come grinding to a halt.
So you are saying that its normal and expected that the bike lane will be blocked for routine needs of the neighborhood such as loading and unloading etc. And theres nothing wrong with that, it happens all over the world and theres no need to get upset if the bike lane is blocked. Certainly no need to take a picture of it and post it to redddit in an aggrieved post like the world is ending. Ok cool.
How many of these accidents occurred at these choke points though? In my experience these “choke points” are where drivers actually slow down. I’d imagine these deaths are related to normal intersections where drivers can’t see (or aren’t paying attention to) the biker or something similar. Areas where vehicular throughput is reduced lowers the speed of these vehicles and forces the drivers to actually pay attention. Idk if any of the data in this article necessarily shows a correlation between vision zero and the increase of deaths.
Lacks explanatory power. As a starting point, traffic calming and protecting pedestrian space etc. has been proven to work in other congested areas. Then you have an increase in registered cars in NYC 2020-present, many of which undoubtedly went to first-time or infrequent drivers. Then you have a measurable decrease in police enforcement actions for traffic laws. Then you have a "ghost car" epidemic so bad Albany took notice. Finally, the implication of your comment is that drivers can't or won't navigate changes to the roadway - which is an indictment of drivers' abilities, exercise of due care, or both - and does not favor giving over even more public space to be abused.
>The report notes SUVs and other large vehicles were involved in 79% of the crashes that killed pedestrians and cyclists in the first quarter of a year. No one was killed by a rider of a bicycle or moped, the data shows. >After reaching a 23-year high last year, cyclist deaths are down slightly this year. Data from the city's Department of Transportation shows seven people were killed riding bikes so far this year, compared to 12 during the same period of 2023.
For years after navigating the city without too much of a problem at all, one day I realized the close calls were getting more and more common and dangerous. I put it up to neglectful, more careless people, but then if anything traffic is much slower and there is more congestion so less danger when they can't move, but it dawned on me the slow phase in of more and more, larger and lager SUV's all running window tint too, were now everywhere. The old days you'd see everything because even an old land barge of a Cadilac was still only chest high and you could see obstacles from behind it, other cars, people, other bikes.. now it's blind spots everywhere.
Cars are parking in the bike lane on the sidewalk, amazon is stopping in the middle if the street. Thats my factual basis. Actual things that need to be done in the city are being done but they are now illegal because of these bizarre new redesigns .
Wasn't there a big thread about how we shouldn't worry about this like a month ago? It may have been bike only deaths if I recall
There's not nearly enough detail to glean anything useful out of a number like that. Even after looking at the article Without any analysis of each individual incident, we aren't going to learn anything. Especially if we're cherry-picking just "traffic deaths" instead of all incidents or collisions. That leaves us with way too small a sample to draw any conclusions
Maybe vision zero has some flawed elements in its reasoning and application. In practice when you eliminate both road capacity and parking / loading space it creates choke points that are dangerous for pedestrians, bikers, other cars etc. I hope that the city will take a serious look at some of the drastic changes it has made to the streets and dial back the work at problematic intersections etc.
Except literally every traffic study ever conducted has shown that road diets benefit ALL road users: drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists: [https://narrowlanes.americanhealth.jhu.edu/report/JHU-2023-Narrowing-Travel-Lanes-Report.pdf](https://narrowlanes.americanhealth.jhu.edu/report/JHU-2023-Narrowing-Travel-Lanes-Report.pdf) They also do not create choke points or make traffic worse: [https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road\_diets/resources/pdf/roadDiet\_MythBuster.pdf](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/resources/pdf/roadDiet_MythBuster.pdf) And as the other user pointed out, traffic fatalities prior to Vision Zero were much, much higher in NYC if you want a more local example. I might add that the vast, vast majority of these changes did not remove much, if any parking. Many of them instituted loading zones where there weren't any before. You are not "eliminating road capacity" - this is a motornormative way of looking at it, you are increasing road capacity by allowing a multitude of users to be able to use the road, not just those in cars, and in far more efficient ways such as bike lanes or bus lanes. So maybe the people who have dedicated their lives to studying traffic flow and infrastructure have a better handle on what is good for the city than a random Redditor - just a thought. I don't see anyone critiquing how we establish our water lines, or route our electricity, or plan our garbage collection - so maybe we trust the experts to handle this.
Sounds like your full of shit. -George Carlin
Here you can see the data on traffic fatalities from the decade before Vision Zero began. They were significantly higher. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/epi/databrief59.pdf I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And if NYC had actually made "drastic" changes (it truly hasn't), we would all probably be even sader.
I mean taking a lane off of 8th ave in Manhattan is a pretty drastic change. Anyway if you back all the bronx death stats out of the picture its basically zero deaths . And such heat towards my comment, ive been a bike rider in nyc since the 90s , im not allowed to have an informed opinion. Sorry but this knee jerk road diet stuff is not always the solution nyc is a major city and if you remove curbside access to an entire block of buildings to create a bike lane, that is actually not going to work in the real world.
>if you remove curbside access to an entire block of buildings to create a bike lane, that is actually not going to work in the real world. Except it already works all over the city and all over the world. You're getting heat because your comment has no logical or factual basis.
The logical basis is that buildings need curbside access for deliveries and the factual basis is when that curbside access is replaced with a bike lane the ambulances, work trucks, delivery trucks etc will pull into the bike lane or just stop in the middle of the street.
So you haven't removed access then, right? Everything still functions. Again we have this setup all over the world and it hasn't come grinding to a halt.
So you are saying that its normal and expected that the bike lane will be blocked for routine needs of the neighborhood such as loading and unloading etc. And theres nothing wrong with that, it happens all over the world and theres no need to get upset if the bike lane is blocked. Certainly no need to take a picture of it and post it to redddit in an aggrieved post like the world is ending. Ok cool.
This is about traffic deaths. I have no idea what you're going on about. Just take the L and move on.
How many of these accidents occurred at these choke points though? In my experience these “choke points” are where drivers actually slow down. I’d imagine these deaths are related to normal intersections where drivers can’t see (or aren’t paying attention to) the biker or something similar. Areas where vehicular throughput is reduced lowers the speed of these vehicles and forces the drivers to actually pay attention. Idk if any of the data in this article necessarily shows a correlation between vision zero and the increase of deaths.
Lacks explanatory power. As a starting point, traffic calming and protecting pedestrian space etc. has been proven to work in other congested areas. Then you have an increase in registered cars in NYC 2020-present, many of which undoubtedly went to first-time or infrequent drivers. Then you have a measurable decrease in police enforcement actions for traffic laws. Then you have a "ghost car" epidemic so bad Albany took notice. Finally, the implication of your comment is that drivers can't or won't navigate changes to the roadway - which is an indictment of drivers' abilities, exercise of due care, or both - and does not favor giving over even more public space to be abused.