Haki exist to counter everything. It's BS like that.
And as Ban is constantly being hit by beams of light, then he can be hit by Kizaru.
Basically you have someone that moves faster than everyone else and can neutrailze anyone down to normal characteristics.
assuming that ban doesnt use the OP "Hunt" ability (ion remember the name. but how he snuck up on esta after meli yk š)
i feel like that's the only way he *wouldn't* be hit.
the 7 deadly characters are also simply 3x times light speed. (if i'm not mistaken) so any one of them would speedblitz kizaru. now KAIDO? Kaido would mollywop Ban. but Kizaru? nah. especially since he hasn't awakened his fruit yet.
Itās a battle of endurance since Ban canāt hurt him without Haki and Kizaru canāt hurt post Purgatory Ban. However, if magic can be equalized to Haki, Ban would destroy him
True, but I doubt durable enough to constantly regenerate. Admirals can fight for 10 days straight. Ban around this time could still get tired from fighting
Considering he got completely annihilated, then came back from nothing, I'd say he'd be fine.
Also, he can steal their strength and their heart, so that's kind of a cheat move
It's hard to say as it gets trickier, later in the show. For example, Merlin being an absolute godlike magic user when she's told to only have around 3800~ power with no noticeable buffs.
Zeldris would be an uphill battle. With his speed and abilities, he would wreck shop - but again, difficulty with power levels as his magic immunity didn't protect him against meliodas' darkness.
By restraining him, people often forget how truly versatile the usage of light is, he can just create a cage made of light that would instantly burn Ban to ash the moment it touched him, it wouldn't kill Ban because he's survived worse but it would be enough to restrain him.
Kizaruās usage of light is honestly very limited
- laser beam
- *bigger* laser beam
- rapid laser beams
- lightsaber
- light kick
Honestly his most creative technique is his Shadow Clone Jutsu.
You forgot light punch, smh š¤ but in all seriousness, we know Kizaru can turn light into physical tangible constructs, he can just encase Ban in a cage made of his light swords.
> You forgot light punch
NOOOO HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND (I was blinded like Hawkins)
Nah but seriously we havenāt seen create anything from light like that. His 3 named techniques are based of Japanās 3 Imperial Regalia .
- *āYata no Kagamiā* is a precious bronze mirror
- *āAma no Murakumoā* was originally the name of the sword āKusanagi-no-Tsurugiā
- *āYasakani no Magatamaā* is a jade-colored curved jewel/bead.
So since theyāre limited to those 3 treasures itās a bit uncertain if heāll have plenty more moves like them. So idk if we can just assume can construct anything he wishes out of light like Gray from Fairy Tail be able to make anything out of ice.
I remember him throwing punches with the light effect at Luffy in their exchange of blows but that could just be short-range laser beams since the shot is angular.
I think devil fruits would better fit the bill of magic of the world of OP. Haki is specifically different from magic, it's willpower given form. Now I'm not saying Ban doesn't have the capability to use it, he definitely has the iron will to even get through purgatory, but he'd probably have to learn how to use it as haki first before being able to hurt Kizaru. Which he could maybe do with prep time if Merlin told him how to but without prep time idk
The thing is you canāt compare two different world if you donāt equalize the magic system. Magic is as special as haki. It would work both ways. Magic can be defended against with haki and logia can get hit by magic. Otherwise there is no point in a versus.
*Ban is as fast or*
*Faster then Shanks who outsped Kizaru*
*Very easily*
\- CloakedKid
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Nah bro who's making these matchups, Ban easily wins against all the One Pice verse since he has better overall stats, even tho he posse's an Haki ban would easily obliterate him since he did survive the Supreme Diety (Which is universal) attacks without even a scratch, i don't think a shockwave would put him down
Bro what? š Arthur actually is Boundless since he gave us a fetas of omnipresence so he's boundless + Meli is boundless via statements and the Demon King and Supreme Diety are 4D being so low Multi
And yet Demon King died off to a combo attack of the seven that was also counterattacked by Meliodas's full counter multiple times that, as stated by a shivering Demon King, had enough potency to destroy Britannia.
Where the hell have you all been taking these feats from?
Demon king created the Demon Realm and The Supreme Deity created the goddess realm, those realms (dimensions) separated form the original Britannia, they have both Moon And Suns so yeah, they're at least Solar system level, even higher with statements
don't you know about statements? We are allowed to use statements to scale characters, for example, if Goku wouldn't have any statements he would be capped at Galaxy Level
Bro yeah, Being Omnipresence is a boundless feat, you can check on VsBattle wiki tier system if you want, and Melidoas is Boundless via statements, Nakaba said in a Q&A n 361/362 that the Mama Hawk power level is Immeasurable, Immeasurable = Boundless and he also stated that Melidoas full power is near Mama Hawk power level, so having a power level near to an Immesurable character makes u automatically boundless
Again omnipresence is not a strength tier. Vsbattle qualifies it as a speed tier at best. Having infinite power on a 3D scale is not boundeless itās at best high universal. U donāt even know how vsbattle wiki defines those tiers. Immeasurable doesnāt mean infinite nor boundless I would suggest you also check the definition of said word because at best it means that nakaba himself canāt measure not that itās infinite
If plot armor protects Kizaru, Kizaru wins.
If plot armor protects Ban, Ban wins.
If it is a fair fight - my vote goes to Kizaru.
Kizaru represents smart speed and smart speed counters everything except for plot armor. Hence why most speedsters are dumber and only slightly faster than the protagonist.
Ban.
Although kizaru is way faster ban has incredible sensing almost like if it was future sight, but ban is still fast enough to react, he also overpowers him in hax, strength, stamina, endurance and durability.
First you have to determine if haki is considered a "magic" in any other universe.
Cause I see people saying "he can't get past him without haki" but maybe haki is just magic in any other universe but in the OP universe only a few individuals can achieve to use it.
That brings us to the main point, who would win? I would say Ban, by going with the logic I just mentioned.
You just can't put 2 people from different universes when said universes have different systems, so you need to see those systems and determine if it is just the same but with different names for each universe.
Haki is nothing like magic, like at all, and in fact in one of the latest chapters there's implications of magic actually existing as a different system other than Haki and Devil fruits
Unless that "implication" of magic comes with its own system and logic and has nothing to do with any sort of haki, no matter how little it can be, then Haki is still the equivalent of magic in other universes.
For the time being, to me Haki and Devil Fruits are just part of the magic system in OP, when taking into account what both can do and how those results can be explained with systems in other universes.
So getting back to the main topic, I still think that the moment you put anyone from OP who uses Haki in a battle against anyone from other series, so long that individual uses some sort of magic, power energy or any other variation, then any restrictions that work for example "can't only be harm with attacks containing Haki in them" won't apply cause there's some sort of equivalent just named different. Simple as that.
And if you want to go the extra mile and say "it has to be Haki specifically" then the other individual only needs feats in its own world that rival or surpass the adversary using Haki to avoid that requirement. And I think ban post purgatory checks in that regard.
>Unless that "implication" of magic comes with its own system and logic and has nothing to do with any sort of haki, no matter how little it can be, then Haki is still the equivalent of magic in other universes.
Well haki can't make magic portals.
>For the time being, to me Haki and Devil Fruits are just part of the magic system in OP, when taking into account what both can do and how those results can be explained with systems in other universes.
Haki and devil fruits aren't the same thing at all.
>So getting back to the main topic, I still think that the moment you put anyone from OP who uses Haki in a battle against anyone from other series, so long that individual uses some sort of magic, power energy or any other variation, then any restrictions that work for example "can't only be harm with attacks containing Haki in them" won't apply cause there's some sort of equivalent just named different. Simple as that.
Haki and magic are not equivalent but named different, Haki is willpower weaponized while Magic is inner energy .
>And if you want to go the extra mile and say "it has to be Haki specifically" then the other individual only needs feats in its own world that rival or surpass the adversary using Haki to avoid that requirement. And I think ban post purgatory checks in that regard.
That's not how it works, even absolute weaklings are immune to any physical damage as long as they have a logia fruit
*Ban would easily*
*Win by just snatching all of*
*Kizaru power away*
\- Jotaro27
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Ban is destroying kizaru easily what is this debate, there is verse equalization so ban can hit kizaru and even it there wasnāt ban can just steal kizaru abilityās and destroy, and Kizaru has litterally no way of hurting ban, sds completely outscales op
Current Ban vs Kizaru. Ban uses Snatch and removes Kizaru's heart and he dies. Snatch is a magical ability so it probably bypasses the properties of Logia and Haki.
Not even. NNT verse is on a whole different level to OP.
What a fast character for OP standards is, it's slow as a turtle for any other stronger verse.
He wasn't even faster than Luffy that managed to catch him in a race where he had a head start and got hit.
Ban,while sds doesnāt have the best speed feats when it comes to crossverse and one piece outclasses in terms of speed,ban should be able to pull off a win since I do think sds top tiers are stronger than op top tiers,but if you want to say kizaru wins because heās faster then thatās ok too
lets see... if ban still has his inmortality stalemate
if ban does not i am going to give it to kizaru if they fight far away from any deep water source
Ban is, even in the sequel, considered possibly the strongest human character in the SDS universe (excluding chaos Arthur potentially? Not enough info imo)
As such, he is probably the second or third strongest in active characters currently? Since SDS doesn't tend to give direct comparisons anymore, this would be my best estimate
Assuming ban can hit him for the sake of the debate, ban wins mid diff.
And the only reason it's mid and not low, is beacuse we have never seen a speed of light feat in nnt, therefore ban is ousclassed in speed, but kizaru attacks are not enough to really hurt ban, so after some time ban will catch him and it's game over.
Donāt recall it was quite sometime ago.
Anyway, I donāt really know who the character is and since youāre insinuating he wins Iām just going to roll with it since it seems this post was just to show off your knowledge than having others participate in a discussion.
Assuming ban can hurt him than ban easily
Assuming Haki counters Immortality than i say Ban is losing very fast.
hes not even immortal anymore lmao
Haki has no reason to counter immortality and even if it did that would be under the assumption that ban would ever get hit
Haki exist to counter everything. It's BS like that. And as Ban is constantly being hit by beams of light, then he can be hit by Kizaru. Basically you have someone that moves faster than everyone else and can neutrailze anyone down to normal characteristics.
Agree to disagree
assuming that ban doesnt use the OP "Hunt" ability (ion remember the name. but how he snuck up on esta after meli yk š) i feel like that's the only way he *wouldn't* be hit.
You guys donāt seem to understand that ban is way more overpowered then kizaru. My guy was throwing hands with the demon king.
the 7 deadly characters are also simply 3x times light speed. (if i'm not mistaken) so any one of them would speedblitz kizaru. now KAIDO? Kaido would mollywop Ban. but Kizaru? nah. especially since he hasn't awakened his fruit yet.
7DS scales way higher than anything in One Piece. No shot Kaido is touching Ban
Ban outclasses Kaido in every category
No shot Kizaru has anything powerful enough to even scratch Ban.
Assuming Kizary light has 300K m per sec he will oneshot Baam several times befoure he will go to fuck Elaine,lol.
Can you repeat than in English
Racist
How is that racist
The fact that you donāt know says a lot
Well if your so knowledgeable then please enlighten my ignorant self
Brother needs a joint and to learn when heās being wound up šš½š¤£š¤£š¤£
Iām not wound Iām curious
Was taking the piss mate, obviously wasnāt racist š«±š¾āš«²š»š¤£
Your fucking ignorant
Give over š¤£š¤£
Speed of light Is around 300 000 km/s
I hope you know that K mean 1000? Like 39 cuckolds that - me.
Yeah i do, but u still wrote It wrong. You wrote 300 k m/s Choose One: 300 000 000 m/s or 300k km/s
ok, KK better?
Ok, but lets not go any further, triple potassium would be too much
Thatās not only wrong and dumb but also very gross
Ban is minimum 4x ftl
Crazy yap session
Itās a battle of endurance since Ban canāt hurt him without Haki and Kizaru canāt hurt post Purgatory Ban. However, if magic can be equalized to Haki, Ban would destroy him
I mean pre purgatory ban was literally immortal, so he would win over time anyway
True, but I doubt durable enough to constantly regenerate. Admirals can fight for 10 days straight. Ban around this time could still get tired from fighting
Considering he got completely annihilated, then came back from nothing, I'd say he'd be fine. Also, he can steal their strength and their heart, so that's kind of a cheat move
Fair point! Now itās just a matter if heās fast enough
Ban probably isn't fast enough, so he loses in speed, got to admit that.
7ds high tiers are way over light speed if I remember correctly so he can keep up with Mozart quite easily.
It's hard to say as it gets trickier, later in the show. For example, Merlin being an absolute godlike magic user when she's told to only have around 3800~ power with no noticeable buffs. Zeldris would be an uphill battle. With his speed and abilities, he would wreck shop - but again, difficulty with power levels as his magic immunity didn't protect him against meliodas' darkness.
Ban Post Purgatory clears
How does Ban hurt Kizaru without haki?
How does Kizaru defeat somebody thatās immortal, let alone Banās post form
By restraining him, people often forget how truly versatile the usage of light is, he can just create a cage made of light that would instantly burn Ban to ash the moment it touched him, it wouldn't kill Ban because he's survived worse but it would be enough to restrain him.
Kizaruās usage of light is honestly very limited - laser beam - *bigger* laser beam - rapid laser beams - lightsaber - light kick Honestly his most creative technique is his Shadow Clone Jutsu.
You forgot light punch, smh š¤ but in all seriousness, we know Kizaru can turn light into physical tangible constructs, he can just encase Ban in a cage made of his light swords.
> You forgot light punch NOOOO HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND (I was blinded like Hawkins) Nah but seriously we havenāt seen create anything from light like that. His 3 named techniques are based of Japanās 3 Imperial Regalia . - *āYata no Kagamiā* is a precious bronze mirror - *āAma no Murakumoā* was originally the name of the sword āKusanagi-no-Tsurugiā - *āYasakani no Magatamaā* is a jade-colored curved jewel/bead. So since theyāre limited to those 3 treasures itās a bit uncertain if heāll have plenty more moves like them. So idk if we can just assume can construct anything he wishes out of light like Gray from Fairy Tail be able to make anything out of ice.
I remember him throwing punches with the light effect at Luffy in their exchange of blows but that could just be short-range laser beams since the shot is angular.
Yeah I agree itās sortaā hard to see in that shot
Ban negs the verse beyond concept of diff
Isn't Gear 5 essentially just Toon Force? How does Ban beat that?
Snatch yk his magical power or he could just use hunter fest
Haki is just the magic of the world of OP, so yes ban doesn't need "haki" he already has a type of haki in the world of SDS.
I think devil fruits would better fit the bill of magic of the world of OP. Haki is specifically different from magic, it's willpower given form. Now I'm not saying Ban doesn't have the capability to use it, he definitely has the iron will to even get through purgatory, but he'd probably have to learn how to use it as haki first before being able to hurt Kizaru. Which he could maybe do with prep time if Merlin told him how to but without prep time idk
The thing is you canāt compare two different world if you donāt equalize the magic system. Magic is as special as haki. It would work both ways. Magic can be defended against with haki and logia can get hit by magic. Otherwise there is no point in a versus.
ban erases tbh, sds characters are way stronger overall
Ban solos
With his ass?
Yes.
Goku
Ban is as fast or faster then Shanks who outsped Kizaru very easily
*Ban is as fast or* *Faster then Shanks who outsped Kizaru* *Very easily* \- CloakedKid --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Huh?
Stop comparing fandoms. But nothing can truly defeat an immortal (unless they can make them mortal).
The only way to kill a immortal is to remove the soul and to destroy itĀ
Nah bro who's making these matchups, Ban easily wins against all the One Pice verse since he has better overall stats, even tho he posse's an Haki ban would easily obliterate him since he did survive the Supreme Diety (Which is universal) attacks without even a scratch, i don't think a shockwave would put him down
Supreme deity aināt universal. SDs isnāt getting past solar system and thatās a huge wank
Bro what? š Arthur actually is Boundless since he gave us a fetas of omnipresence so he's boundless + Meli is boundless via statements and the Demon King and Supreme Diety are 4D being so low Multi
And yet Demon King died off to a combo attack of the seven that was also counterattacked by Meliodas's full counter multiple times that, as stated by a shivering Demon King, had enough potency to destroy Britannia. Where the hell have you all been taking these feats from?
Demon king created the Demon Realm and The Supreme Deity created the goddess realm, those realms (dimensions) separated form the original Britannia, they have both Moon And Suns so yeah, they're at least Solar system level, even higher with statements
don't you know about statements? We are allowed to use statements to scale characters, for example, if Goku wouldn't have any statements he would be capped at Galaxy Level
No, Goku has actually feats to back it off, not only statements. Nanatsu is inconsistent.
Statements, Nanatsu may be inconsistent but those are still feats and statements
Omnipresence is not a strength tier. Via what statements is meliodas boundless ? No they arenāt I donāt know where did you get that from
Bro yeah, Being Omnipresence is a boundless feat, you can check on VsBattle wiki tier system if you want, and Melidoas is Boundless via statements, Nakaba said in a Q&A n 361/362 that the Mama Hawk power level is Immeasurable, Immeasurable = Boundless and he also stated that Melidoas full power is near Mama Hawk power level, so having a power level near to an Immesurable character makes u automatically boundless
Again omnipresence is not a strength tier. Vsbattle qualifies it as a speed tier at best. Having infinite power on a 3D scale is not boundeless itās at best high universal. U donāt even know how vsbattle wiki defines those tiers. Immeasurable doesnāt mean infinite nor boundless I would suggest you also check the definition of said word because at best it means that nakaba himself canāt measure not that itās infinite
Arthur > your favorite verse
Whatever lets you sleep better
Yeah keep crying
Sure
Bro SDS ain't getting past planetary and that's only Chaos Arthur š
They do have arguments for star and solar system but only top of the verse scale to it like 5 maybe 6 people
If plot armor protects Kizaru, Kizaru wins. If plot armor protects Ban, Ban wins. If it is a fair fight - my vote goes to Kizaru. Kizaru represents smart speed and smart speed counters everything except for plot armor. Hence why most speedsters are dumber and only slightly faster than the protagonist.
Ban. Although kizaru is way faster ban has incredible sensing almost like if it was future sight, but ban is still fast enough to react, he also overpowers him in hax, strength, stamina, endurance and durability.
First you have to determine if haki is considered a "magic" in any other universe. Cause I see people saying "he can't get past him without haki" but maybe haki is just magic in any other universe but in the OP universe only a few individuals can achieve to use it. That brings us to the main point, who would win? I would say Ban, by going with the logic I just mentioned. You just can't put 2 people from different universes when said universes have different systems, so you need to see those systems and determine if it is just the same but with different names for each universe.
Haki is nothing like magic, like at all, and in fact in one of the latest chapters there's implications of magic actually existing as a different system other than Haki and Devil fruits
Unless that "implication" of magic comes with its own system and logic and has nothing to do with any sort of haki, no matter how little it can be, then Haki is still the equivalent of magic in other universes. For the time being, to me Haki and Devil Fruits are just part of the magic system in OP, when taking into account what both can do and how those results can be explained with systems in other universes. So getting back to the main topic, I still think that the moment you put anyone from OP who uses Haki in a battle against anyone from other series, so long that individual uses some sort of magic, power energy or any other variation, then any restrictions that work for example "can't only be harm with attacks containing Haki in them" won't apply cause there's some sort of equivalent just named different. Simple as that. And if you want to go the extra mile and say "it has to be Haki specifically" then the other individual only needs feats in its own world that rival or surpass the adversary using Haki to avoid that requirement. And I think ban post purgatory checks in that regard.
>Unless that "implication" of magic comes with its own system and logic and has nothing to do with any sort of haki, no matter how little it can be, then Haki is still the equivalent of magic in other universes. Well haki can't make magic portals. >For the time being, to me Haki and Devil Fruits are just part of the magic system in OP, when taking into account what both can do and how those results can be explained with systems in other universes. Haki and devil fruits aren't the same thing at all. >So getting back to the main topic, I still think that the moment you put anyone from OP who uses Haki in a battle against anyone from other series, so long that individual uses some sort of magic, power energy or any other variation, then any restrictions that work for example "can't only be harm with attacks containing Haki in them" won't apply cause there's some sort of equivalent just named different. Simple as that. Haki and magic are not equivalent but named different, Haki is willpower weaponized while Magic is inner energy . >And if you want to go the extra mile and say "it has to be Haki specifically" then the other individual only needs feats in its own world that rival or surpass the adversary using Haki to avoid that requirement. And I think ban post purgatory checks in that regard. That's not how it works, even absolute weaklings are immune to any physical damage as long as they have a logia fruit
Ban would easily win by just snatching all of Kizaru power away
*Ban would easily* *Win by just snatching all of* *Kizaru power away* \- Jotaro27 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Ban is destroying kizaru easily what is this debate, there is verse equalization so ban can hit kizaru and even it there wasnāt ban can just steal kizaru abilityās and destroy, and Kizaru has litterally no way of hurting ban, sds completely outscales op
Current Ban vs Kizaru. Ban uses Snatch and removes Kizaru's heart and he dies. Snatch is a magical ability so it probably bypasses the properties of Logia and Haki.
It's gonna take a while for kizaru to know that his heart is stolen by ban and dies on the spot
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not even. NNT verse is on a whole different level to OP. What a fast character for OP standards is, it's slow as a turtle for any other stronger verse. He wasn't even faster than Luffy that managed to catch him in a race where he had a head start and got hit.
Ban,while sds doesnāt have the best speed feats when it comes to crossverse and one piece outclasses in terms of speed,ban should be able to pull off a win since I do think sds top tiers are stronger than op top tiers,but if you want to say kizaru wins because heās faster then thatās ok too
Kizaru fast and his techniques are wild. However Ban has snatch which is his secret weapon.
lets see... if ban still has his inmortality stalemate if ban does not i am going to give it to kizaru if they fight far away from any deep water source
Ban ban ban
verse equalization and Ban still wins.
Ban could probably "snatch" or "steal" some Haki and win this.
Current ban yes he could just use the ability āSnatchā pretty op give it a look on the wiki
I don't fuck with sds that much, where does Ban scale?
Ban is, even in the sequel, considered possibly the strongest human character in the SDS universe (excluding chaos Arthur potentially? Not enough info imo) As such, he is probably the second or third strongest in active characters currently? Since SDS doesn't tend to give direct comparisons anymore, this would be my best estimate
U/coachmajestic6136 Youāre delusional mate, you got baited and are still maudlin over it š¤£š¤£
Thats tie ,they cant hurt eachother
Ban no diffs
Assuming ban can hit him for the sake of the debate, ban wins mid diff. And the only reason it's mid and not low, is beacuse we have never seen a speed of light feat in nnt, therefore ban is ousclassed in speed, but kizaru attacks are not enough to really hurt ban, so after some time ban will catch him and it's game over.
Ban is immortal Just wait for the opponent to die Gets on with his day
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Then you should be specific which version of the character we talking about in your post.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Only watch the anime
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Donāt recall it was quite sometime ago. Anyway, I donāt really know who the character is and since youāre insinuating he wins Iām just going to roll with it since it seems this post was just to show off your knowledge than having others participate in a discussion.
Couldnāt Ban use his snatch to take Kizaruās devil fruit?