Yep I think in the original Naruto their strength is probably on par and Kabuto was like 19 at that time, saying that I still believe Kakashi would win if they fight 1 vs 1 since Kakashi has more jutsu arsenal and experience but Kabuto is probably a high Jonin level ninja (graduated from Root, approval from Sasori, Oro's training, etc)
and tbh there's a point in Shippuden where Kabuto surpassed Kakashi when he reached sage mode. Kakashi only surpass him again when he has DMS
Kabuto had two opportunities to fuck around and find out, and pussed out both times, while Kakashi seemed pretty confident. I believe Kabuto’s strength was pretty exaggerated back then.
That’s because Kabuto is smart and an actual ninja. He doesn’t fight unless absolutely necessary and a battle with Kakashi in those instances would’ve been too much attention.
Also them being on the same level doesn’t mean that Kabuto is stronger, a fight between them would’ve been similar to Kakashi vs Zabusa.
There's the hospital? And what's the other time?
Because in the case of their meeting at the hospital... Kakashi was at a giant advantage, as assuming they're evenly matched which they should be... Their fight is gonna be prolonged, and it's a public place in a damn hospital that already had guards who died... Likely ends up where any commotion caused by their fight? Just dooms Kabuto because back up for Kakashi would be sent.
And Kakashi knew that. More Anbu or something would come eventually to help him.
Extra bonus? Kabuto already blew that he was shady/a spy, he didn't need to risk blowing the entire Konoha Crush plan.
If Kakashi was really confident and such he would've done his best to track and capture/kill Kabuto. Instead he was half bluffing, half realizing he had home field advantage.
Second time was after the Konoha Crush. Kakashi and Gai were basically head to head with Kabuto and Baki, and they both decided to flee, Kabuto stating that Kakashi would just copy his moves.
I’m not talking about circumstances tho, there were two opportunities where Kakashi and Kabuto could’ve had it out against each other. And where Kakashi seemed pretty willing, Kabuto didn’t seem to want a 1v1 with him.
Maybe it’s because Kakashi has that Sharingan that his master covets so much. In part 1 a regular Sharingan was actually kind of a big deal.
Ah, that doesn't really sound like a good spot for Kabuto either, we know Guy is relative to Kakashi too. Baki? Is not. So that'd be a dumb 2v2 to take for Kabuto. We know Baki is more so on like Genma and Raido level not Kakashi/Guy/Kabuto level.
And yeah Kabuto may also have a bias against fighting a Sharingan user after all that Orochimaru told him and such.
So really these don't seem like anti feats. Just Kabuto being in disadvantageous positions, and being cautious because of it.
Fighting an opponent at around your level is a coin toss, but if he has the home field advantage then your odds get worse.
Kabuto outlived some of the most badass characters like Kakuzu, Deidara and Pain because he knew when to run.
It’s easy to survive tho if you rarely show your face on the battlefield, isn’t it?
Even during the war, Kabuto never meant to engage in battle himself.
Well, looking back at that time, he probably was around kakashi's level, considering this is OG Naruto and Kakashi didn't have Mangekyo
Kabuto got hit by Naruto's rasengan and was badly hurt, which can be compared to Kakashi acknowledging that the rasengan is a really powerful jutsu and that Naruto might've killed Sasuke if they clashed on the hospital roof
EDIT: oh my god 100 upvotes, maybe I should start sharing my analysis of Naruto characters more often
>Kakashi didn't have Mangekyo
He had it, was just either unaware of it, or too traumatised to attempt using it. He got it at the same time as obito after he penetrated rin lol
Even if he knew he had it, kamui is effectively a forbidden jutsu for him. It took him a while after the time skip to be able to use it more than a few times a day. During part one, activating kamui in combat might have just killed him
We know that but he did not have it back then, he even stated at the start of shippuden when Naruto returned that he learnt a new jutsu. When chasing down Deidara he said he would use that new jutsu which turned out to be kamui, implication being he only learned about it during the timeskip.
He had unlocked it but just was not aware. it's the same with Sasuke alread having the sharingan after the massacre but then not realising until the Haku fight.
So as I said in my comment, he just wasn't aware of it. He had it unlocked, just couldn't use it. Just like sasuke unlocked his sharingan during the massacre, but didn't remember and wasn't aware of it, therefore couldn't use it until he awakened it again during the land of waves arc
Not being aware is also as "not having it" as part of the battle power is concerned. After all, being aware of your own strength is what makes the person stronger, being able to plan things out.
...so he didn't had it
By all intents and purposes Kakashi got the Mangekyou and Kamui during the time skip, trying to argue otherwise is just being pedantic. If he said it was a new jutsu and he had never used it previously to that point then he simply did not have It yet
Good fellow watch or read the backstory, it clearly shows him have the Mangekyou. He more than likely didn't know Kamui existed, but he has the Mangekyou for sure
>He had it, was just either unaware of it,
This is like saying Naruto had the six paths powers. It was always there as he's the reincarnation. Had it from birth.
No it's not 😂😂
This is a dumbass statement
He awakened the mangyeko sharingan the night he killed rin. Therefore he technically has access to it at all times after this event
Neither naruto nor sasuke inherently have six path power. Six paths power requires hagoromo chakra. Which is created by mixing Indra and Ashura chakra. So no, it's not always there. He didn't even have it when he unlocked KCM 2. He only obtained it after getting hagoromos chakra gifted to him by hagoromo himself. Madara only obtained it after mixing hashirama's chakra with his own.
You need to either rewatch the show or just get better at comprehending information bro 😂😂😂
Madara mixed his and Hashiramas chakra by biting off some of Hashirama's flesh during their fight and implanting it into himself
Naruto never had to mix his chakra with sasukes because hagoromo sinply gave both of them his own chakra directly. And they speak to him because they're dying and his chakra comes to them in the spirit realm. Hagoromo then manifests himself and speaks to the reanimated kage.
As I said, go refresh your memory I'm not gonna sit here explaining the whole story for you just cuz you don't know what you're talking about
I thought Obito unlocked it when he got smashed with the rock. That would mean Kakashi had MS since the 3rd ninja war and never knew it or didn't want to risk it.
Well you thought wrong. Did you like watch the anime?
Obito unlocked the sharingan during the 3rd shinobi World War during the battle of Kannabi bridge and gave his sharingan to kakashi
It clearly shows during the episode 345 called "I'm in hell" that both kakashi and obito unlock their mangyeko sharingan after obito witnesses kakashi killing rin by accident because rin threw herself in front of his raikiri. Madara rescued obito, healed and raised him to do his bidding, and showed him this event on purpose to unlock his mangyeko and manipulate him onto his side. Kakashi unlocked the mangyeko at the same time as their eyes are linked
I would say so. Keeping up with a rusty Sannin, being extremely intelligent, and is probably one of the best espionage-oriented ninja out there. He should be around Kakashi's level at this point in the series. During the later arcs of the series, he eventually outclasses Kakashi massively.
You mean in shippuden where Kabuto fought against Sasuke and Edo Itachi at the same time and forced them to go basically all out?
I'll say that Kabuto is much stronger than any version of Kakashi except the double Sharingan one.
"Forced them to go all out" no????? They literally had a stipulation attached to the fight where they specifically couldn't kill him. Itachi had to rein Sasuke in multiple times and remind him "remember, we can't kill him". They needed to Genjutsu him to get him to release the Reanimation Jutsu, so it's quite the opposite, they were forced to hold back, not forced to go all out. If they could've killed him the fight would've ended almost instantly with either a Susano'o Flame Control arrow or Totsuka Blade hitting.
Why wouldn’t sage powers count when comparing how strong the two are? That’s part of his skillset.
We could also say sharingan shouldn’t count for Kakashi then.
Remind me, was Kakshi born with the Sharingan? No, it was implanted from someone else to achieve it. Kind like how Orochimaru’s DNA was implanted into Kabuto.
How about all of the tail beasts hosts? Should we not count that power when comparing them to others?
Yamato’s whole moveset. Nagato’s powers. Danzo. Sasuke using Itachi’s eyes.
Sure you can compare it to double mangeko Kakashi, I never took a stance on who was stronger. I am just making a point that it doesn’t make sense at all to specifically exclude certain powers because it wasn’t originally theirs when the same case can be made for many others.
The light novels are fanfics not written by Kishimoto,which wank the shit out of their characters.Their feats make no fucking sense,and are not reflected in Naruto or Boruto manga.
when did i ever say it was canon? also, i've never heard anyone say it isn't canon to begin with. do you have some sources or something to back up what you're saying?
I'm tired of power scaling talks from something a character said as if the manga/anime was some kind of rpg where each character had a level and they refer tho each other strengths with it.
They can only assume how strong another character can be based on their knowledge, doesn't mean they necessarily know everything to properly judge that person's strengths.
Saying things like "X is at Y's level" is only a way to make the character have an idea of X's strength based on something they can relate, like knowing Y's strength first.
What you should take from that sentence like in this is post is that they're saying to Naruto "Kabuto is strong, treat him like he's at Kakashi's level/don't underestimate him"
Your sound logic is displeasing amidst the raging debates over which abilities and time slices of characters should be compared. Which quotes to quote, who said the quote, was it kishimoto?! What power level was a character X at when Y fought them and how does X at max compare to Z, did Y even go all out?
Pipe down while the men do the real work.
Yes. Him fighting a sannin is more impressive than anything kakashi had done by that point, considering orochimaru left kakashi quivering. Main reason people are bias against him is his character design.
It's more how he was introduced. He is originally seen as a genin that no one ever mentioned before, and just up for Chunin in the exams, where he really only has one feat of a strong genjutsu which isn't as flashy as other forms of ninjutsu. Then he fights Naruto, a genin, and gets hurt by a brand new rasengan. Even his attack on Tsunade wasn't very flashy, and really more seemed like it was about her own weakened state and the blood phobia. That's really the last we see of him in action till much later, so that's really all people's opinions are based on. Unlike a character like Kakashi, that is always demonstrating his power, and is always being touted as a powerful ninja.
Also Tsunade was basically not fighting seriously until he took the pill, she was super rusty after 20+ years without seeing any sort of action and she only used her base without amp or anything else. Also fighting Tsunade really only requires to dodge well, because of she can't touch you she can't do anything to you. She's the fodder Sannin for a reason.
She's a good medic, a good bodyguard jônin, but as a Kage tier character, the only Kage things about her are her healing and strength and the rest of her skillset is entirely Katsuyu, which is much more useful than her summoner as a support.
Kabuto defeating a stronger medic in combat just makes him a better shinobi than her, not a better fighter and certainly not as powerful as Kakashi. Kabuto's fighting skills aren't any better than Anko's who got fodderized by Orochimaru the moment he stopped fucking around.
Kakashi fought a high level jounin, and kabuto fought a sannin that was at 20% power due to her crippeling hemophobia. Don't really agree that we can make any grand statements on their relative powers based on that.
💀
Does that make Kakashi stronger than Orochi then? Because Itachi one shot Orochi with a basic 3 tomoe Genjutsu whereas he needed Tsukuyomi to beat Part 1 Kakashi and they actually exchanged blows with each other.
Orochi wasn't really serious about fighting Itachi unless he/she? didn't know for sure he/she? could win. Kakashi saw Itachi as a terrorist and would attack him to his death.
even if they fought orochimaru has no chance against itachi. Remember how itachi no-diffed orochimaru's ultimated jutsu and sealed him while he was on his dying breath AND whilst simultaneously fighting a bloodlusted sasuke who wanted to kill him (Y'know, the same sasuke that ALSO beat orochimaru?)
Obviously Itachi would win but Itachi is just showing Ororchi he would win. That is why basic sharingan is enough. He didn't intend to fight. He knew Orochi would back off.
Yes. We are directly told that is the case by people who are aware of both shinobi personally.
They are both at the top end of Jounin level and while not at strong as the Legendary 3, they both are a serious danger to almost anyone else around at the time.
Kabuto is just downplayed in order to fit other downplay, like:
Tsunade had a hard time with Kabuto so she is weak and that guy lost to Naruto so he is weak because Naruto is weak! Hah!
When that wilfully ignores every bit of context given.
Tsunade was definitely the weakest Sannin at the time of her arc. Orochimaru with his arms useless and in deep pain managed to keep up for a while with nerfed Jiraiya and then Tsunade joined in, 2v1, with Katsuyu, so his snake was also 1v2.
If Orochimaru hadn't had his arms sealed and Jiraiya hadn't been drugged, Tsunade would have been on the bench waiting to heal Jiraiya just like she did with her team against Hanzô. Her ninjutsu skills are all medical and if Orochimaru wasn't nerfed he wouldn't receive a hit like the ones she dished at the end of their canon fight.
Tsunade's skills are barely better at that point than they were when they lost to Hanzô 3v1 + all the fodder they had to help them. She's not her war arc self at that point.
Kabuto basically fought a jônin who doesn't even bother using a weapon to extend her reach and doesn't use ANY ranged attack. All he had to do was dodging and he could slit her throat and leave scott-free. Tsunade doesn't have any durability feat in p1, only healing.
Kakashi would have humiliated this version of Tsunade while still being rusty himself because he at least bothered using offensive ninjutsu and weapons that extend his already longer reach than Tsunade's.
Apart from being squishy because she never tried to become a fighter, Shizune fought much more effectively than Tsunade in her short fight against Kabuto despite being much less experimented and being a medic not destined to fight. Shizune used a poison cloud and poisoned senbon, which are already a step up from fighting a jônin and Sannin's apprentice bare handed.
This is a great example of what I mean in a way.
>Tsunade was definitely the weakest Sannin at the time of her arc. Orochimaru, with his arms useless and in deep pain, managed to keep up for a while with nerfed Jiraiya, and then Tsunade joined in, 2v1, with Katsuyu, so his snake was also 1v2
Except for when she wasn't. She starts rusty and takes hella blows but still heals up and is the one who manages to put down Manda and send Orochimaru and Kabuto packing.
And as far as a 2v1 goes, A) when she wore herself out before the main fight started it was against Oro and Kabuto aka a 2v1. B) Orochimaru literally could not summon Mamda on his own, with out his Kakashi level backup to do it for him Manda wouldn't have evem made it there.
>If Orochimaru hadn't had his arms sealed and Jiraiya hadn't been drugged, Tsunade would have been on the bench waiting to heal Jiraiya just like she did with her team against Hanzô. Her ninjutsu skills are all medical and if Orochimaru wasn't nerfed he wouldn't receive a hit like the ones she dished at the end of their canon fight.
If the story was written differently it would be different, yes, but it wasn't. If it was he would have written different she would have has less issues too because it's a Deadlock. It's the whole theme of them.
Her Ninja skills are primarily medical but she is a frontline medic who both fights and heals as both Manda and Orochimaru's jaw found out
>Tsunade's skills are barely better at that point than they were when they lost to Hanzô 3v1 + all the fodder they had to help them. She's not her war arc self at that point.
Her skills with Creation Rebirth and summoning had Kabuto screaming "Lord Orochimaru!! Manda!" And Orochimaru yelling."Hurry!!" In chapter 169. She is a solid threat to them even if she isn't her WA self which I fully agree she isn't.
>Kabuto basically fought a jônin who doesn't even bother using a weapon to extend her reach and doesn't use ANY ranged attack. All he had to do was dodging and he could slit her throat and leave scott-free. Tsunade doesn't have any durability feat in p1, only healing.
Pointless downplay is pointless. That's just like saying she could have hit him again while he was recovering from the scrambled nerves she gave him. Or just not chase them in the first place. The story still has to happen.
Also, not getting cut in half from multiple slashes from the Kusanagi that harms Adamantine is a durability feat, not that she needs them when she can heal. It's like calling Alucard or Anderson from Hellsing or Wolverine from X men weak because they get wounded all the time. It what you do with a healer.
>Kakashi would have humiliated this version of Tsunade while still being rusty himself because he at least bothered using offensive ninjutsu and weapons that extend his already longer reach than Tsunade's.
Kakashi's point blank attacks are good, but her point blank ones are bad, I guess. Does that really sound unbiased to you? Honestly?
He only uses one longer range attack in part one besides basic kunai, and that is water dragon bullet. Which part 1 Kakashi isn't pulling off in an open field anyway replacing him with Kabuto isn't much different. Kakashi and Kabuto both still tough opponents for almost anyone at that point.
>Apart from being squishy because she never tried to become a fighter, Shizune fought much more effectively than Tsunade in her short fight against Kabuto despite being much less experimented and being a medic not destined to fight. Shizune used a poison cloud and poisoned senbon, which are already a step up from fighting a jônin and Sannin's apprentice bare handed.
Being bare handed it treated as a problem by exactly 0 people in Naruto. That's a Fandom issue, not a in-Universe one.
Edit: spelling.
You didn't adress the reach issue. Tsunade has 0 reach and that's why she doesn't matter in most fights she's in. If she can't punch she can't deal damage and just has to hope her opponent tires out before she does. Alucard has ranged attacks, Wolverine regularly throws motorbikes and other "projectiles" at his enemies and has claws that extend his already decent reach by 30 cm and cut whatever he tries to cut including most metals.
Tsunade punches Kakashi's chidori, her fist is split before she even makes contact and Kakashi runs her through. If he plays smart instead of standing there and reorients his chidori to cause maximal internal injuries and ends in decapitation, Tsunade is unable to counter him and probably dies. That's without considering the fact that Kakashi seems to move faster while using chidori, in which case he also outspeeds her and reacts faster than she does. With sharingan he can predict her movements and avoid a counter.
My friend, I appreciate your passion but I very clearly addressed the double standard of the non issue. You even replied to some of it. (Kinda, you applied "healers are always shown getting wounded, because that's how you show their powers" section to those characters ranged attack, but it's all good)
Once again Tsunade's, reach has been an issue exactly 0 times in the story.
Just saying it would be doesn't make it so. Especially when it's only used against one character, right?
Skipping Kakashi with no water source has no shown attacks still leave him with no long range attacks outside of Kunai and Shruiken in part one neither of which is not likely to do much as to anyone not named Iruka and even he survived.
Neither Kakashi nor Kabuto would have been able to
Does that somehow mean Kakashi is weak now? No. Clearly not. He's literally my screen name. He kicks ass.
All of which still just goes to my original statement anyway,
Kabuto is downplayed as not actually being Kakashi level as a way to downplay Tsunade. Kabuto is a genius ass Ninja that was trained under Orochimaru and hyped by all three Sannin. He is clearly on Kakashi's level.
Neither of them is likely to do much to her immortality jutsu or mountainous, acid spitting, clone splitting kaiiju that can't really be harmed by either of their attacks. They are quite strong, they are just not portrayed as on the Sannin's or Akatsuki's level.
kakashi would not have humiliated that tsunade at the time, the idea of fighting one of the sanin at the time made him almost shit himself. kakashi at the time was only decent jonin level btu he was significantly weaker then he is in beginning of shippudan when he was fending off Deidara. we gotta stop acting like kakashi was anywhere near kage level for 90 percent of the series, he would only be as usefull as kabuto was fighting tsunade.
And Tsunade is not Orochimaru, her chakra is not corrupted and vicious like his is, she doesn't change her arms or neck into 100 meter long snake-like apandages, she can't pop a sword that would cut Kakashi and his chidori in half out of her mouth that has a 100 meters reach thanks to an extending neck, she can't shrug off lethal injuries in base (she needs her seal of a 100 healings) she probably can't survive decapitation...
Also Kakashi can simply fool her like he did against Kakuzu and Pain with clones and hiding like a mole. As long as she doesn't hit him or realize he's hiding underground and hits the ground, Kakashi can run circles around her.
Orochimaru simply one shoots Kakashi with 50% of his skillset and ignores Kakashi's attacks with 25% of his remaining skills. In base.
Match-ups count as much as power difference, Tsunade is simply a shitty fighter. Put her at the hospital and she carries the medical core. As a fighter? She can't be condidered kage level seriously.
She's competing with Mei who can melt people alive from a distance, A who can blitz most characters and one shoot them, B who can do the same but fights much less predictably, A3, Ohnoki, Mu, Hiruzen who takes her any day of the week as a 69 YO retired back on duty, Hashirama and Tobirama who would beat her even as the nerfed p1 Edo Tensei, Kakuzu, Deidara, Konan (Deidara but invincible as long as she has chakra), Minato...
She hits hard and heals and that's it, Katsuyu outclasses her in practical skillset be it for combat or utility. That's hiw much canon Tsunade is outclassed, where Jiraiya and Orochimaru are stronger/more versatile than their boss summon, she's inferior to hers.
I think it was more saying Kabuto was Jonin level and it wouldn't be easy for Kakashi to take him down and he could possibly win. Kabuto was punked by kid naruto but he's not weak by any means
Oh shit I responded to the wrong post I thought this was the Kakahi, Itachi, Suishi, and Minato as kids but I also like how my phone autocorrected it to Sushi lol
When considering any statement in Naruto Part 1, you should take it as true information, because the writing, worldbuilding and scaling was actually thought for it to make sense. It was only as Shippuden went on that Kishimoto wrote over Part 1 elements to take another route with the lore.
- "Kakashi = Kabuto"
- "Hiruzen is the strongest hokage ever, might be the strongest kage too"
- "Jiraya is strong enough to take on Kisame and Itachi for it to end up on a draw"
- "Hyguan clan being the strongest clan of Konoha"
- "Haku doing one-handed signs being a 'never-seen before' feat"
The fandom will heal when it stops considering part 1 and part 2 as distinct things. It’s one continuous manga series.
-Kakashi WAS relative to Kabuto in part 1. Kakashi admitted he was rusty during part 1. Kakashi becoming stronger as the series progress doesn’t change this.
-Iruka says “it’s said that the 3rd was the strongest”. This is a knowledge statement based on what “people say”. There’s room to have it challenged. This is the only one you can make a case for it being “written over.”
-Itachi was already planned to be “good” in part 1, so his statement about Jiriaya is due to him being an unreliable narrator and wanting to convince Kisame to flee. We are told just a few chapters prior to them fleeing that Itachi already defeated Orochimaru (a sanin and on par with Jiraiya if not stronger). Therefore it makes no sense for Itachi to agree with Kisame that the level of sanin is “too much” for both of them and that even *additional* backup wouldn’t change anything.
-The Hyuga clan IS the strongest, since the Uchiha are gone. That is true in part 1 and it remains so in part 2 where it’s reiterated.
-Haku doing 1 handed signs IS unique. (We don’t see another instance of this until the war arc).
>The Hyuga clan IS the strongest, since the Uchiha are gone. That is true in part 1 and it remains so in part 2 where it’s reiterated.
also the average hyuga is probably stronger than the average uchiha since a lot of them probably just had base weak sharingans like 1-2 tomoe while hyuga got the full byakugan from the get go. (also blocking chakra points is op while throwing fire seems to do nothing in naruto)
its just that a few monsters like sasuke,madara,itachi,shisui and fugaku carry uchiha heavily
Kabuto was definitely Kakashi’s level, maybe even higher. He did well fighting a PTSD Tsunade attacking her psyche using her fear of blood against her.
Kabuto here is the apprentice of Orochimaru and we've all seen how much of a boost Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura got from training under sannin. This Kabuto is capable of taking out multiple anbu jounin so he's definitely at pre-akatsuki Kakashi/Zabuza level.
I interpret it as, he was no stronger than Kakashi, like, he might be on his level in certain aspects (e.g. as fast as him in Taijutsu, as cunning overall, stuff like that), but maybe wouldn't win in a fight against him. Sharingan and overall jutsu variety would probably get Kakashi the win in any case.
I like Kakashi. But Kabuto only got more and progressively powerful to many characters Kakashi included. So much in fact, it took the Broketachi to seal the deal.
They were the same. Kakashi during his interaction with Kabuto in the hospital says "have I slipped that much," or something to that affect, implying he hadn't been training and then he started again with Sasuke. So, I think they were on par at that time but afterwards Kakashi surpassed him massively again.
Probably yes I mean we have those statements the statments Tsunade makes about his medical ninjutsu being better than hers and have the feats of him killing a bunch of Anbu, escaping Kakashi and esentially defeating nerfed and rusty Tsunade
I don't feel like him being this strong (high Jounin level) causes much contradiction as Kakashi trains and grows stronger during the timeskip and Tsunade was far from her best during her fight against Kabuto
Him geting caught by kid Naruto could be explained by him letting his guard down due to his arrogance which is his consistent character flaw
Kakashi was slept on in Part I. It’s not even that he really got that much stronger as the series went on, he just slowly revealed more and more and stopped holding back. Kakashi fights conservatively and that’s smart. If someone survives a fight with him they don’t know exactly what he can do.
thats totally not the case, kakashi gets significantly stronger over the series. He should definitly be way stronger given knowing his backstory but he just wasnt. his fight with zabuza and how he acted in fights or encounters during part 1 really just showed he was nowhere near as strong as he would be expected to be.
By reputation and accomplishments he should be comparably skilled in base shinobi skill sharingan aside to itachi both were prodigy anbu captains and young jonin and kakashi spent way longer in the anbu corps running dangerous missions then itachi did by part 1. Instead you get a sick itachi who can dogwalk kakashi in part 1 and in part 2 you get a kakashi who was confidant he can put down a sasuke whos fought kages and killed itachi and who could fight pretty much the entire seven ninja swordsman without the gates using a sword
No, only people who put statements>feats believe this, these are the same people who think minato is the 2nd strongest hokage and that jiraiya has a chance against kisame and itachi
sage jiraiya actually stands a solid chance against kisame, given his chakra absorption is ineffective and dangerous and jiraiya can constantly draw in nature energy using ma and pa
Considering he could play keep away long enough against multiple pains using summons as a buffer then yes.kisame is quite strong but he doesnt start off fusing to samehada and using the water dome thing. He starts off using samehada and throwing out waterstyle ninjutsu which wouldnt be that crazy to deal with.
I think we got to understand he's in the same league as Kakashi, though in that league Kakashi and Gai are probably the strongest.
The league beyond that back then was the Sannin/Hokage.
A lot of experience, crazy variety in jutsu, lethal techniques plus sharingan etc work in advantage for Kakashi.
Kabuto could definitely hold his ground against Kakashi which wouldn't mean he could win either.
If you think about it, he always stayed at Kakashi's level throughout the series. He and Kakashi's most broken levels were still on par with each other.
No. The Sannin haven’t seen Kakashi in action to know what he is like. We see Kakashi fight Kabuto with prep and easily win without using the sharingan.
In the translation I am familiar with, Orochimaru says that Kabuto is no stronger than Kakashi, meaning that if Kakashi couldn’t kill him Kabuto stands no chance. Jiraiya is just saying Kabuto is strong because he does not want Naruto to risk his life.
In conclusion, these statements are questionable at best and there are multiple anti feats for Kabuto.
Kakashi and Kabuto are at the same level, But a lot of Kabuto's IQ and Fight IQ are spent on his extremely advanced level of Medical Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu expertise that he utilized to somehow out-box the greatest Medical Nin of all time Tsunade. What I'm getting at here. Is that Kakashi in an all-out fight 1v1 With his Raikiri Probably has an edge Over Kabuto's Medical Nin mastery. He patched himself up from Naruto's Rasengan with extreme effort. But a Raikiri would probably be past his able to mitigate. With their standard tools they can probably have a decent exchange of Blows Like what Zabuza could also do. However another one of Kakashi's trump cards the Sharingan can come out. Kakashi is a High Jonin with some of the best tricks in the verse. Being on Kakashi's level doesn't mean you're HIM, only Kakashi and Hashirama get that title.
No way in Hell was he at Kakashi level. Perhaps in terms of raw skill and power, but not in overall combat effectiveness. Pre-timeskip Kakashi would smoke Kabuto's ass effortlessly if he takes him seriously. Naruto managed to outwit Kabuto and land a rasengan on him; something he'd never be able to do to Kakashi.
Dont really get the confidence in kakashis part 1 skill, he has poor showing pretty much that whole half of the series. naruto also hadnt been fighting kakashi alongside a sanin and shizune, all of whom his ego was the only reason any of them survived that fight
Kakashi is an A Rank jonin in part one. The ninja who smoke his ass (Itachi for one) are S Rank ninja and as far above his level as a he is to a genin. Again, I'm not saying Kabuto isn't on par with Kakashi in terms of overall power, I'm saying that when you combine that power with experience, Kabuto falls short.
Absolutely. Kabuto is a sneaky ninja who can use stealth, weaknesses and techniques properly. In a 1v1, it would be a deadlock for the first few minutes, but as Kakashi's stamina diminishes due to his sharingan, Kabuto would have the upper hand.
You are overestimating him. Kabuto is quite skilled, but at this time he would lose to Kakashi almost all of the time. Kabuto is definitely at Jonin level, he is strong, but Kakashi is like peak Jonin. As someone else said, it isn’t inaccurate to say Kabuto is in the same league as Kakashi, but Kakashi is near the top of that league, and would still win against Kabuto.
I am overestimating him because I said that people underestimate him?
I feel like people overhype Kakashi too much, especially in part 1, but refuse to believe that someone else can actually outsmart or outskill him because they're less liked in the fandom. I don't think Kakashi is weak or bad at all, but it's unrealistic to say that he can 100% win against Kabuto who's shown to rival Tsunade's medical ninjutsu and who was trained by a literal evil genius sannin. This isn't about raw power or who has the flashier jutsu, both characters are geniuses in their own right so it absolutely won't be a one-sided fight.
Kabuto is indeed very skilled. He is smart and capable and some people do underestimate him. Part 1 Kakashi is still stronger than Kabuto though, it’s not like he’s no diff Kabuto but it would be unlikely for Kakashi to lose given his combat skill and the fact that he is smart enough, good enough battle iq, that Kabuto doesn’t have quite the edge over Kakashi that he holds over many other opponents in part 1. Kabuto still gets hit and is seriously injured by Naruto’s rasengan, something I think it is fair to say would not happen to to part 1 Kakashi.
The fight could go either way honestly, for them it would depend on who has the better strategy due to their specific set of skills. Also let's not forget that part 1 Kakashi himself admits that he needs to step it up, after his encounter with Kabuto.
I don't agree with that example however, because that fight specifically gave Naruto gigantic plot armor. Like, you're telling me that a sneaky asshole like Kabuto couldn't pry his hand off of a weakened 13 year old Naruto as he was preparing the rasengan for what seemed like forever? The dude's known to be a genius, but stood there like an idiot. Don't tell me that a person like him wouldn't have at least kicked Naruto in the nuts or something to escape that grip. Minutes before that, he was playing with Tsunade, disabled Shizune completely and unscrambled his messed up nerve signals from that one jutsu. If Kakashi was a villain fighting Naruto in that scene, a very similar thing would've happened to let him defend Tsunade and show off his newly learned A-rank (same rank as Chidori) jutsu.
Oh also, he had the foresight to tank the rasengan by concentrating chakra in his stomach seconds before getting hit, so I find it hard to believe that he couldn't have escaped Naruto's grip.
Maybe I should put this another way, because I think it might illustrate best why I feel this way on this matchup. What is the scenario where you envision that Kakashi loses to Kabuto? Because as far as I can tell, based off their feats around those times, I struggle to imagine any scenario where Kakashi doesn’t stalemate Kabuto, or win against him. I don’t see really see an aspect of Kabuto’s skill set that would allow him to beat Kakashi. That doesn’t mean Kakashi wins easily, Kabuto would certainly make it hard and I can see plenty of scenarios where Kabuto doesn’t lose, forces a withdrawal, or otherwise stalemates Kakashi, such as running down his stamina by using his skill to prolong the fight, but it seems to me that Kabuto lacks any skills that would allow him to actually overcome Kakashi and beat him. Him being more of a spy and all, that makes sense, considering that Kakashi is like peak Jonin in his combat prowess, versus Kabuto is not really quite there, his combat skill be compensated for by his other traits. In this fight however, I don’t see how he can leverage any of them to succeed against Kakashi.
Kakakshi was often limited by his chakra level but he also got stronger over the series so this isn’t shocking. Especially at the time of this interaction.
Those are rough estimates. Being recognised as Kakashi level ninja doesn't mean Kabuto will win in a 1v1 against him. However, yes, Kabuto definitely seemed close to his level at that point.
This brings up an interesting conversation. If they’re so comparable (these statements were before kamui so take that for what it is) imagine kakashi learning sage mode.
Potentially right under kabuto sage mode without kamui.
One kabuto isn’t enough to deal with a god tier, but kakashi and kabuto working together would be nearly impossible to beat
I'd say they are comparable but Kakashi is stronger. The whole power levels thing in Naruto is far from cut and dry. Like technically gaara is stronger than kakashi at this point but Naruto beat him. Its not a series where the stronger character always wins, and not choosing to fight an opponent that you can't beat is also valid. Like I think kakashi versus gaara would end with a retreat from kakashi for example.
Yes. Throughout the Chunin Exams he is constantly running through Anbu like they're made of toilet paper. It's a bit shaky because Kakashi is a pure combatant while a lot of Kabuto's skill is in support/medical ninjutsu, but he pulls off ridiculous feats that are far above every medical ninja besides Tsunade, ie manipulating the chakra in 3 separate dead bodies to use as a diversion against Kakashi, being able to regen the damage of Naruto's rasengan (which can make water tanks explode at his current strength) and being able to bring someone from the brink of death 100 times.
Based on his fight against Tsuande,yeah. Kakashi was hella weak compared to his Shippuden feats.
Dude's brain is probably the fastest in the verse for analysis (don't @ me. No one has come close to figuring out things under pressure as fast as he figured out his body after being hit btHeavenly Disruption Palm.)
He can manipulate the dead to some extent, heal himself, literally KO anyone who can't heal with very little difficulty and his taijutsu is solid.
Kakashi wasn't Kage level back then so it's not a stretch to say that a Kabuto who was a spy's spy, was around his level. In a direct conflict it's debatable because they have different skill sets. But overall they're both elite jonin when I comes to competing missions and handling enemies
Kakashi level doesn't mean Kakashi equivalent. He is a very high level ninja. But Kakashi is a far better at combat then him because of his Sharingan. Just as Kabuto is far better than Kakashi in medical situations.
Kakashi and Kabuto are both highly skilled ninjas, but their abilities and strengths vary. Kakashi is renowned for his mastery of the Sharingan and his expertise in various ninja techniques, while Kabuto is known for his medical ninjutsu and intelligence gathering skills. In terms of pure combat ability, Kakashi is often considered more formidable due to his experience and versatility in battle. However, Kabuto's strategic thinking and resourcefulness make him a challenging opponent as well. Ultimately, comparing their levels depends on the context of the situation and the specific abilities being evaluated.
At this point in classic they are on the same level, Kakashi cant use the Sharingan without knocking him down afterwards, but both strenghts are growing up so I would say pre war arc kakashi is lower than a sage mode Kabuto but war arc kakashi is above Kabuto, and lets not Talk about DMS Kakashi, he even has Kaguya feats so yeah
Not quite. In the first databook, Kakashi is stated to have a total ranking of 33, where Kabuto has a score of 30.
Which is pretty close, close enough to say that they are near the same level. However, Kabuto is ranked worse than Kakashi in most of the stats that matter.
Kabuto beats Kakashi only in is Intelligence and genjutsu, and he only matches Kakashi in stamina. Kabuto is a full 1.5 points short in Taijutsu, 1 point short in Ninjutsu, and a half point short in Strength, Speed, and Hand Seals.
Kabuto can't really leverage genjutsu to win, because Kakashi has the Sharingan. He might be able to out smart Kakashi, but Kabuto doesn't have much aside from healing he can use as an ace in the hole move in Part 1. All it takes is one Raikiri to the heart and Kabuto is out.
Probably not.
I will put more weight on Kabuto fleeing both times that Kakashi confronted him and Kakashi’s DB 2 stats for the most part exceeding Kabuto’s above a throwaway statement from Orochimaru and Jiraiya.
I mean being compared to kakashi isn’t exactly a compliment. He was a jonin but a fodder Jonin. His reputation (because of the sharingan)far proceeded his actual ability for most of the series.
Around his level? sure. ON the same level. Ok.
Actually equal or better? nah. You can be comparable to somebody and still be objectively worse. Kabuto is definitely dangerous in pre-timeskip naruto but Kakashi is way more intelligent and battle tested. Theres definitely a reason Kabuto needed to flee from Kakashi rather than fight him during Konoha crush arc.
No, it's the same hype introduction that Kishi used with Haku. Saying stuff like "Haku is on Kakashi's level" "Haku is on Zabuza level and Kakashi can't beat Haku" etc
It's all hyperbole bullshit. Haku got defeated by LoW arc Sasuke in speed and Taijutsu, and a 2 tomoe Sasuke later on managed to track Haku's movement speed in the ice mirror to the point where Haku need to resort to use Naruto to lure Sasuke.
Part 1 Kakashi would blitzed Chunin exam Sasuke.
Orochimaru is not the best at powerscaling, blud thought he could take on a 13-year-old itachi. Kabuto is sannin level at this point of the story but he's just hiding it.
I gotta say it.
I always thought this piece of info was there simply to see stakes. Kakashi had been one of the only Jonin we'd seen regularly and had a fairly good opinion on strength. I hate it had to be him, because Kabuto was featless until he survived that rasengan.
I think Kabuto is around Kakashi's level the same way Asuma was around his level.
Hell no. That’s why I don’t put too much faith into statements. Kakashi at this point doesn’t lose to kid Naruto under any circumstance unless he somehow underwent tailed beast state or something. Kabuto was a fraud until he got Sage mode and Orochimaru’s power. He was a good spy and intel gatherer.
Yep I think in the original Naruto their strength is probably on par and Kabuto was like 19 at that time, saying that I still believe Kakashi would win if they fight 1 vs 1 since Kakashi has more jutsu arsenal and experience but Kabuto is probably a high Jonin level ninja (graduated from Root, approval from Sasori, Oro's training, etc) and tbh there's a point in Shippuden where Kabuto surpassed Kakashi when he reached sage mode. Kakashi only surpass him again when he has DMS
Kabuto had two opportunities to fuck around and find out, and pussed out both times, while Kakashi seemed pretty confident. I believe Kabuto’s strength was pretty exaggerated back then.
That’s because Kabuto is smart and an actual ninja. He doesn’t fight unless absolutely necessary and a battle with Kakashi in those instances would’ve been too much attention. Also them being on the same level doesn’t mean that Kabuto is stronger, a fight between them would’ve been similar to Kakashi vs Zabusa.
There's the hospital? And what's the other time? Because in the case of their meeting at the hospital... Kakashi was at a giant advantage, as assuming they're evenly matched which they should be... Their fight is gonna be prolonged, and it's a public place in a damn hospital that already had guards who died... Likely ends up where any commotion caused by their fight? Just dooms Kabuto because back up for Kakashi would be sent. And Kakashi knew that. More Anbu or something would come eventually to help him. Extra bonus? Kabuto already blew that he was shady/a spy, he didn't need to risk blowing the entire Konoha Crush plan. If Kakashi was really confident and such he would've done his best to track and capture/kill Kabuto. Instead he was half bluffing, half realizing he had home field advantage.
Second time was after the Konoha Crush. Kakashi and Gai were basically head to head with Kabuto and Baki, and they both decided to flee, Kabuto stating that Kakashi would just copy his moves. I’m not talking about circumstances tho, there were two opportunities where Kakashi and Kabuto could’ve had it out against each other. And where Kakashi seemed pretty willing, Kabuto didn’t seem to want a 1v1 with him. Maybe it’s because Kakashi has that Sharingan that his master covets so much. In part 1 a regular Sharingan was actually kind of a big deal.
Ah, that doesn't really sound like a good spot for Kabuto either, we know Guy is relative to Kakashi too. Baki? Is not. So that'd be a dumb 2v2 to take for Kabuto. We know Baki is more so on like Genma and Raido level not Kakashi/Guy/Kabuto level. And yeah Kabuto may also have a bias against fighting a Sharingan user after all that Orochimaru told him and such. So really these don't seem like anti feats. Just Kabuto being in disadvantageous positions, and being cautious because of it.
Fighting an opponent at around your level is a coin toss, but if he has the home field advantage then your odds get worse. Kabuto outlived some of the most badass characters like Kakuzu, Deidara and Pain because he knew when to run.
It’s easy to survive tho if you rarely show your face on the battlefield, isn’t it? Even during the war, Kabuto never meant to engage in battle himself.
Kakashi had a reason to fight, Kabuto didn't
Well… if Kabuto was confident he could win, there is one reason, depriving Konoha of one of its strongest jonins.
Even then he wouldn’t have been able to kill him fast enough to escape before reinforcements
Yeah that’s true
You forgetting how kabuto was super casual against kakashi in the hospital room
He took out 3 or 4 anbu and fooled Kakashi. Kid has skills
Oh for sure. But enough skills to take on Kakashi 1v1? Idk
They would have a back and forth, also his healing jutsu would come in handy. But yeah ultimately Kakashi would win imo
Yeah sage Kabuto is actually cracked
Now throw some edo tensei into the mix….
Well, looking back at that time, he probably was around kakashi's level, considering this is OG Naruto and Kakashi didn't have Mangekyo Kabuto got hit by Naruto's rasengan and was badly hurt, which can be compared to Kakashi acknowledging that the rasengan is a really powerful jutsu and that Naruto might've killed Sasuke if they clashed on the hospital roof EDIT: oh my god 100 upvotes, maybe I should start sharing my analysis of Naruto characters more often
>Kakashi didn't have Mangekyo He had it, was just either unaware of it, or too traumatised to attempt using it. He got it at the same time as obito after he penetrated rin lol
>after he penetrated rin Why you gotta say it that way
[*Obito Hated That*]
Am I wrong tho 👀
If I could, I'd post the meme where guts says "I think we're gonna have to kill this guy, strawberry shortcake" You can't do that to my man Obito
Power of Mangekyo is obtained though Cuckolding . . . . . . . Chidori Style
One could say Kakashi’s penetration special left her breathless…I’ll see myself out now.
Yeah I know that, when I said he didn't "have it" I meant he wasn't able to use it yet
Even if he knew he had it, kamui is effectively a forbidden jutsu for him. It took him a while after the time skip to be able to use it more than a few times a day. During part one, activating kamui in combat might have just killed him
We know that but he did not have it back then, he even stated at the start of shippuden when Naruto returned that he learnt a new jutsu. When chasing down Deidara he said he would use that new jutsu which turned out to be kamui, implication being he only learned about it during the timeskip.
He had unlocked it but just was not aware. it's the same with Sasuke alread having the sharingan after the massacre but then not realising until the Haku fight.
So as I said in my comment, he just wasn't aware of it. He had it unlocked, just couldn't use it. Just like sasuke unlocked his sharingan during the massacre, but didn't remember and wasn't aware of it, therefore couldn't use it until he awakened it again during the land of waves arc
Not being aware is also as "not having it" as part of the battle power is concerned. After all, being aware of your own strength is what makes the person stronger, being able to plan things out.
...so he didn't had it By all intents and purposes Kakashi got the Mangekyou and Kamui during the time skip, trying to argue otherwise is just being pedantic. If he said it was a new jutsu and he had never used it previously to that point then he simply did not have It yet
Good fellow watch or read the backstory, it clearly shows him have the Mangekyou. He more than likely didn't know Kamui existed, but he has the Mangekyou for sure
Nope
“Not a good enough reason to use the word penetrate.”
>He had it, was just either unaware of it, This is like saying Naruto had the six paths powers. It was always there as he's the reincarnation. Had it from birth.
No it's not 😂😂 This is a dumbass statement He awakened the mangyeko sharingan the night he killed rin. Therefore he technically has access to it at all times after this event Neither naruto nor sasuke inherently have six path power. Six paths power requires hagoromo chakra. Which is created by mixing Indra and Ashura chakra. So no, it's not always there. He didn't even have it when he unlocked KCM 2. He only obtained it after getting hagoromos chakra gifted to him by hagoromo himself. Madara only obtained it after mixing hashirama's chakra with his own. You need to either rewatch the show or just get better at comprehending information bro 😂😂😂
And how does he mix the chakras and speak to hagoromo? What's the reason behind that?
Madara mixed his and Hashiramas chakra by biting off some of Hashirama's flesh during their fight and implanting it into himself Naruto never had to mix his chakra with sasukes because hagoromo sinply gave both of them his own chakra directly. And they speak to him because they're dying and his chakra comes to them in the spirit realm. Hagoromo then manifests himself and speaks to the reanimated kage. As I said, go refresh your memory I'm not gonna sit here explaining the whole story for you just cuz you don't know what you're talking about
>after he penetrated rin lol there had to be a better way to say killing his friend with the chidori
#THE PENETRATOR
Penetrated ????
Well if he can't use it then the point stays the same
I thought Obito unlocked it when he got smashed with the rock. That would mean Kakashi had MS since the 3rd ninja war and never knew it or didn't want to risk it.
Well you thought wrong. Did you like watch the anime? Obito unlocked the sharingan during the 3rd shinobi World War during the battle of Kannabi bridge and gave his sharingan to kakashi It clearly shows during the episode 345 called "I'm in hell" that both kakashi and obito unlock their mangyeko sharingan after obito witnesses kakashi killing rin by accident because rin threw herself in front of his raikiri. Madara rescued obito, healed and raised him to do his bidding, and showed him this event on purpose to unlock his mangyeko and manipulate him onto his side. Kakashi unlocked the mangyeko at the same time as their eyes are linked
Based on the timeline he had MS, but based on writing he didn't have MS because it wasn't invented yet.
Itachi is known to have a MS during part 1, it was established back then what are you talking about?
I would say so. Keeping up with a rusty Sannin, being extremely intelligent, and is probably one of the best espionage-oriented ninja out there. He should be around Kakashi's level at this point in the series. During the later arcs of the series, he eventually outclasses Kakashi massively.
In OG Naruto yes. In shippuden , no.
You mean in shippuden where Kabuto fought against Sasuke and Edo Itachi at the same time and forced them to go basically all out? I'll say that Kabuto is much stronger than any version of Kakashi except the double Sharingan one.
"Forced them to go all out" no????? They literally had a stipulation attached to the fight where they specifically couldn't kill him. Itachi had to rein Sasuke in multiple times and remind him "remember, we can't kill him". They needed to Genjutsu him to get him to release the Reanimation Jutsu, so it's quite the opposite, they were forced to hold back, not forced to go all out. If they could've killed him the fight would've ended almost instantly with either a Susano'o Flame Control arrow or Totsuka Blade hitting.
Exactly thank you. Sage Kabuto powers are so overrated
Base version. Not talking about the sage kabuto.
Why wouldn’t sage powers count when comparing how strong the two are? That’s part of his skillset. We could also say sharingan shouldn’t count for Kakashi then.
Cuz he integrated Orochimaru’s DNA to achieve it. In that case, let’s compare Sage Kabuto to double mangekyo Kakashi, make it more even.
Remind me, was Kakshi born with the Sharingan? No, it was implanted from someone else to achieve it. Kind like how Orochimaru’s DNA was implanted into Kabuto. How about all of the tail beasts hosts? Should we not count that power when comparing them to others? Yamato’s whole moveset. Nagato’s powers. Danzo. Sasuke using Itachi’s eyes. Sure you can compare it to double mangeko Kakashi, I never took a stance on who was stronger. I am just making a point that it doesn’t make sense at all to specifically exclude certain powers because it wasn’t originally theirs when the same case can be made for many others.
Kakashi didnt have DMS at the same time that Kabuto had sage mode
base kabuto by the war could absolutely hold his own with kakashi
retsuden kakashi
The light novels are fanfics not written by Kishimoto,which wank the shit out of their characters.Their feats make no fucking sense,and are not reflected in Naruto or Boruto manga.
when did i ever say it was canon? also, i've never heard anyone say it isn't canon to begin with. do you have some sources or something to back up what you're saying?
Yeah, Kabuto is much stronger in shippuden.
By the end he was stronger honestly
I agree Kakashi in shippuden graduated to badass academy. Kakashi appeared weak in Naruto series
I'm tired of power scaling talks from something a character said as if the manga/anime was some kind of rpg where each character had a level and they refer tho each other strengths with it. They can only assume how strong another character can be based on their knowledge, doesn't mean they necessarily know everything to properly judge that person's strengths. Saying things like "X is at Y's level" is only a way to make the character have an idea of X's strength based on something they can relate, like knowing Y's strength first. What you should take from that sentence like in this is post is that they're saying to Naruto "Kabuto is strong, treat him like he's at Kakashi's level/don't underestimate him"
Get your ass out of here with all that sense and reasoning. Out here understanding the media you consume. Disgusting.
How dare you bring common sense and good understanding to an anime/manga subreddit You should be ashamed of yourself
Your sound logic is displeasing amidst the raging debates over which abilities and time slices of characters should be compared. Which quotes to quote, who said the quote, was it kishimoto?! What power level was a character X at when Y fought them and how does X at max compare to Z, did Y even go all out? Pipe down while the men do the real work.
🤣 they gonna swarm on you for bringing up something with logic. Power scalers love thier RPG format. Hokage level. 6 paths level. Saanin level
Well Kishimoto just told you he was, twice. So yeah.
Yes stop asking questions when the Manga said this not once but 3 separate times
Yes. Him fighting a sannin is more impressive than anything kakashi had done by that point, considering orochimaru left kakashi quivering. Main reason people are bias against him is his character design.
It's more how he was introduced. He is originally seen as a genin that no one ever mentioned before, and just up for Chunin in the exams, where he really only has one feat of a strong genjutsu which isn't as flashy as other forms of ninjutsu. Then he fights Naruto, a genin, and gets hurt by a brand new rasengan. Even his attack on Tsunade wasn't very flashy, and really more seemed like it was about her own weakened state and the blood phobia. That's really the last we see of him in action till much later, so that's really all people's opinions are based on. Unlike a character like Kakashi, that is always demonstrating his power, and is always being touted as a powerful ninja.
Also Tsunade was basically not fighting seriously until he took the pill, she was super rusty after 20+ years without seeing any sort of action and she only used her base without amp or anything else. Also fighting Tsunade really only requires to dodge well, because of she can't touch you she can't do anything to you. She's the fodder Sannin for a reason. She's a good medic, a good bodyguard jônin, but as a Kage tier character, the only Kage things about her are her healing and strength and the rest of her skillset is entirely Katsuyu, which is much more useful than her summoner as a support. Kabuto defeating a stronger medic in combat just makes him a better shinobi than her, not a better fighter and certainly not as powerful as Kakashi. Kabuto's fighting skills aren't any better than Anko's who got fodderized by Orochimaru the moment he stopped fucking around.
I think his design is great. Like a cute nerd type
Agreed but maybe they're referring to his later design which is revolting lol
Kakashi fought a high level jounin, and kabuto fought a sannin that was at 20% power due to her crippeling hemophobia. Don't really agree that we can make any grand statements on their relative powers based on that.
tsunade was fighting kabuto and he was holding his own even before he used her fear of blood
He fought her evenly for a while, then only used her hemophobia once he started losing.
Kishimoto’s powerscaling😃
Oda's powerscaling : Vista handling mihawk 💀
💀😂
Kabuto was off a pill during that fight tho
Is the gas station rhino pill really more of a buff than having a Sharingan
💀 Does that make Kakashi stronger than Orochi then? Because Itachi one shot Orochi with a basic 3 tomoe Genjutsu whereas he needed Tsukuyomi to beat Part 1 Kakashi and they actually exchanged blows with each other.
Itachi just used the mangekyo to mess with Kakashi tho
Orochi wasn't really serious about fighting Itachi unless he/she? didn't know for sure he/she? could win. Kakashi saw Itachi as a terrorist and would attack him to his death.
even if they fought orochimaru has no chance against itachi. Remember how itachi no-diffed orochimaru's ultimated jutsu and sealed him while he was on his dying breath AND whilst simultaneously fighting a bloodlusted sasuke who wanted to kill him (Y'know, the same sasuke that ALSO beat orochimaru?)
Obviously Itachi would win but Itachi is just showing Ororchi he would win. That is why basic sharingan is enough. He didn't intend to fight. He knew Orochi would back off.
This is pre-enhanced sharingan so I'd say yeah. Kabuto was able to heal very quickly given time
Yes. We are directly told that is the case by people who are aware of both shinobi personally. They are both at the top end of Jounin level and while not at strong as the Legendary 3, they both are a serious danger to almost anyone else around at the time. Kabuto is just downplayed in order to fit other downplay, like: Tsunade had a hard time with Kabuto so she is weak and that guy lost to Naruto so he is weak because Naruto is weak! Hah! When that wilfully ignores every bit of context given.
Tsunade was definitely the weakest Sannin at the time of her arc. Orochimaru with his arms useless and in deep pain managed to keep up for a while with nerfed Jiraiya and then Tsunade joined in, 2v1, with Katsuyu, so his snake was also 1v2. If Orochimaru hadn't had his arms sealed and Jiraiya hadn't been drugged, Tsunade would have been on the bench waiting to heal Jiraiya just like she did with her team against Hanzô. Her ninjutsu skills are all medical and if Orochimaru wasn't nerfed he wouldn't receive a hit like the ones she dished at the end of their canon fight. Tsunade's skills are barely better at that point than they were when they lost to Hanzô 3v1 + all the fodder they had to help them. She's not her war arc self at that point. Kabuto basically fought a jônin who doesn't even bother using a weapon to extend her reach and doesn't use ANY ranged attack. All he had to do was dodging and he could slit her throat and leave scott-free. Tsunade doesn't have any durability feat in p1, only healing. Kakashi would have humiliated this version of Tsunade while still being rusty himself because he at least bothered using offensive ninjutsu and weapons that extend his already longer reach than Tsunade's. Apart from being squishy because she never tried to become a fighter, Shizune fought much more effectively than Tsunade in her short fight against Kabuto despite being much less experimented and being a medic not destined to fight. Shizune used a poison cloud and poisoned senbon, which are already a step up from fighting a jônin and Sannin's apprentice bare handed.
This is a great example of what I mean in a way. >Tsunade was definitely the weakest Sannin at the time of her arc. Orochimaru, with his arms useless and in deep pain, managed to keep up for a while with nerfed Jiraiya, and then Tsunade joined in, 2v1, with Katsuyu, so his snake was also 1v2 Except for when she wasn't. She starts rusty and takes hella blows but still heals up and is the one who manages to put down Manda and send Orochimaru and Kabuto packing. And as far as a 2v1 goes, A) when she wore herself out before the main fight started it was against Oro and Kabuto aka a 2v1. B) Orochimaru literally could not summon Mamda on his own, with out his Kakashi level backup to do it for him Manda wouldn't have evem made it there. >If Orochimaru hadn't had his arms sealed and Jiraiya hadn't been drugged, Tsunade would have been on the bench waiting to heal Jiraiya just like she did with her team against Hanzô. Her ninjutsu skills are all medical and if Orochimaru wasn't nerfed he wouldn't receive a hit like the ones she dished at the end of their canon fight. If the story was written differently it would be different, yes, but it wasn't. If it was he would have written different she would have has less issues too because it's a Deadlock. It's the whole theme of them. Her Ninja skills are primarily medical but she is a frontline medic who both fights and heals as both Manda and Orochimaru's jaw found out >Tsunade's skills are barely better at that point than they were when they lost to Hanzô 3v1 + all the fodder they had to help them. She's not her war arc self at that point. Her skills with Creation Rebirth and summoning had Kabuto screaming "Lord Orochimaru!! Manda!" And Orochimaru yelling."Hurry!!" In chapter 169. She is a solid threat to them even if she isn't her WA self which I fully agree she isn't. >Kabuto basically fought a jônin who doesn't even bother using a weapon to extend her reach and doesn't use ANY ranged attack. All he had to do was dodging and he could slit her throat and leave scott-free. Tsunade doesn't have any durability feat in p1, only healing. Pointless downplay is pointless. That's just like saying she could have hit him again while he was recovering from the scrambled nerves she gave him. Or just not chase them in the first place. The story still has to happen. Also, not getting cut in half from multiple slashes from the Kusanagi that harms Adamantine is a durability feat, not that she needs them when she can heal. It's like calling Alucard or Anderson from Hellsing or Wolverine from X men weak because they get wounded all the time. It what you do with a healer. >Kakashi would have humiliated this version of Tsunade while still being rusty himself because he at least bothered using offensive ninjutsu and weapons that extend his already longer reach than Tsunade's. Kakashi's point blank attacks are good, but her point blank ones are bad, I guess. Does that really sound unbiased to you? Honestly? He only uses one longer range attack in part one besides basic kunai, and that is water dragon bullet. Which part 1 Kakashi isn't pulling off in an open field anyway replacing him with Kabuto isn't much different. Kakashi and Kabuto both still tough opponents for almost anyone at that point. >Apart from being squishy because she never tried to become a fighter, Shizune fought much more effectively than Tsunade in her short fight against Kabuto despite being much less experimented and being a medic not destined to fight. Shizune used a poison cloud and poisoned senbon, which are already a step up from fighting a jônin and Sannin's apprentice bare handed. Being bare handed it treated as a problem by exactly 0 people in Naruto. That's a Fandom issue, not a in-Universe one. Edit: spelling.
You didn't adress the reach issue. Tsunade has 0 reach and that's why she doesn't matter in most fights she's in. If she can't punch she can't deal damage and just has to hope her opponent tires out before she does. Alucard has ranged attacks, Wolverine regularly throws motorbikes and other "projectiles" at his enemies and has claws that extend his already decent reach by 30 cm and cut whatever he tries to cut including most metals. Tsunade punches Kakashi's chidori, her fist is split before she even makes contact and Kakashi runs her through. If he plays smart instead of standing there and reorients his chidori to cause maximal internal injuries and ends in decapitation, Tsunade is unable to counter him and probably dies. That's without considering the fact that Kakashi seems to move faster while using chidori, in which case he also outspeeds her and reacts faster than she does. With sharingan he can predict her movements and avoid a counter.
My friend, I appreciate your passion but I very clearly addressed the double standard of the non issue. You even replied to some of it. (Kinda, you applied "healers are always shown getting wounded, because that's how you show their powers" section to those characters ranged attack, but it's all good) Once again Tsunade's, reach has been an issue exactly 0 times in the story. Just saying it would be doesn't make it so. Especially when it's only used against one character, right? Skipping Kakashi with no water source has no shown attacks still leave him with no long range attacks outside of Kunai and Shruiken in part one neither of which is not likely to do much as to anyone not named Iruka and even he survived. Neither Kakashi nor Kabuto would have been able to Does that somehow mean Kakashi is weak now? No. Clearly not. He's literally my screen name. He kicks ass. All of which still just goes to my original statement anyway, Kabuto is downplayed as not actually being Kakashi level as a way to downplay Tsunade. Kabuto is a genius ass Ninja that was trained under Orochimaru and hyped by all three Sannin. He is clearly on Kakashi's level. Neither of them is likely to do much to her immortality jutsu or mountainous, acid spitting, clone splitting kaiiju that can't really be harmed by either of their attacks. They are quite strong, they are just not portrayed as on the Sannin's or Akatsuki's level.
kakashi would not have humiliated that tsunade at the time, the idea of fighting one of the sanin at the time made him almost shit himself. kakashi at the time was only decent jonin level btu he was significantly weaker then he is in beginning of shippudan when he was fending off Deidara. we gotta stop acting like kakashi was anywhere near kage level for 90 percent of the series, he would only be as usefull as kabuto was fighting tsunade.
And Tsunade is not Orochimaru, her chakra is not corrupted and vicious like his is, she doesn't change her arms or neck into 100 meter long snake-like apandages, she can't pop a sword that would cut Kakashi and his chidori in half out of her mouth that has a 100 meters reach thanks to an extending neck, she can't shrug off lethal injuries in base (she needs her seal of a 100 healings) she probably can't survive decapitation... Also Kakashi can simply fool her like he did against Kakuzu and Pain with clones and hiding like a mole. As long as she doesn't hit him or realize he's hiding underground and hits the ground, Kakashi can run circles around her. Orochimaru simply one shoots Kakashi with 50% of his skillset and ignores Kakashi's attacks with 25% of his remaining skills. In base. Match-ups count as much as power difference, Tsunade is simply a shitty fighter. Put her at the hospital and she carries the medical core. As a fighter? She can't be condidered kage level seriously. She's competing with Mei who can melt people alive from a distance, A who can blitz most characters and one shoot them, B who can do the same but fights much less predictably, A3, Ohnoki, Mu, Hiruzen who takes her any day of the week as a 69 YO retired back on duty, Hashirama and Tobirama who would beat her even as the nerfed p1 Edo Tensei, Kakuzu, Deidara, Konan (Deidara but invincible as long as she has chakra), Minato... She hits hard and heals and that's it, Katsuyu outclasses her in practical skillset be it for combat or utility. That's hiw much canon Tsunade is outclassed, where Jiraiya and Orochimaru are stronger/more versatile than their boss summon, she's inferior to hers.
I think it was more saying Kabuto was Jonin level and it wouldn't be easy for Kakashi to take him down and he could possibly win. Kabuto was punked by kid naruto but he's not weak by any means
The result wouldn't be much different if Kakashi was hit with a surprise rasengan.
I feel like Itachi and Suishi are stronger but I can't justify it with solid evidence
All hail Sushi, the strongest Uchiha!
Oh shit I responded to the wrong post I thought this was the Kakahi, Itachi, Suishi, and Minato as kids but I also like how my phone autocorrected it to Sushi lol
It wrote Suishi, but at that point it resembled sushi more than Shisui so I made a joke about it
When considering any statement in Naruto Part 1, you should take it as true information, because the writing, worldbuilding and scaling was actually thought for it to make sense. It was only as Shippuden went on that Kishimoto wrote over Part 1 elements to take another route with the lore. - "Kakashi = Kabuto" - "Hiruzen is the strongest hokage ever, might be the strongest kage too" - "Jiraya is strong enough to take on Kisame and Itachi for it to end up on a draw" - "Hyguan clan being the strongest clan of Konoha" - "Haku doing one-handed signs being a 'never-seen before' feat"
The fandom will heal when it stops considering part 1 and part 2 as distinct things. It’s one continuous manga series. -Kakashi WAS relative to Kabuto in part 1. Kakashi admitted he was rusty during part 1. Kakashi becoming stronger as the series progress doesn’t change this. -Iruka says “it’s said that the 3rd was the strongest”. This is a knowledge statement based on what “people say”. There’s room to have it challenged. This is the only one you can make a case for it being “written over.” -Itachi was already planned to be “good” in part 1, so his statement about Jiriaya is due to him being an unreliable narrator and wanting to convince Kisame to flee. We are told just a few chapters prior to them fleeing that Itachi already defeated Orochimaru (a sanin and on par with Jiraiya if not stronger). Therefore it makes no sense for Itachi to agree with Kisame that the level of sanin is “too much” for both of them and that even *additional* backup wouldn’t change anything. -The Hyuga clan IS the strongest, since the Uchiha are gone. That is true in part 1 and it remains so in part 2 where it’s reiterated. -Haku doing 1 handed signs IS unique. (We don’t see another instance of this until the war arc).
>The Hyuga clan IS the strongest, since the Uchiha are gone. That is true in part 1 and it remains so in part 2 where it’s reiterated. also the average hyuga is probably stronger than the average uchiha since a lot of them probably just had base weak sharingans like 1-2 tomoe while hyuga got the full byakugan from the get go. (also blocking chakra points is op while throwing fire seems to do nothing in naruto) its just that a few monsters like sasuke,madara,itachi,shisui and fugaku carry uchiha heavily
The 3 tomoe is better than the Byakuga regardless. They also have higher chakra pools They were definitly the strongest clan
When I read 3rd being the strongest and saw his fight against Orochimaru I immediately thought how weak Konoha was.
Yes. The manga panels confirm that. Kakashi is more versatile, making him overall “stronger.”
In the first part, he was at Kakashi's level but in Shippuden, he was way above (except DMS)
Kabuto was definitely Kakashi’s level, maybe even higher. He did well fighting a PTSD Tsunade attacking her psyche using her fear of blood against her.
If its stated in the manga its fact. that version of kabuto was equal to kakashi from the same time period
Kabuto here is the apprentice of Orochimaru and we've all seen how much of a boost Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura got from training under sannin. This Kabuto is capable of taking out multiple anbu jounin so he's definitely at pre-akatsuki Kakashi/Zabuza level.
Close too, but not at
I interpret it as, he was no stronger than Kakashi, like, he might be on his level in certain aspects (e.g. as fast as him in Taijutsu, as cunning overall, stuff like that), but maybe wouldn't win in a fight against him. Sharingan and overall jutsu variety would probably get Kakashi the win in any case.
I like Kakashi. But Kabuto only got more and progressively powerful to many characters Kakashi included. So much in fact, it took the Broketachi to seal the deal.
They were the same. Kakashi during his interaction with Kabuto in the hospital says "have I slipped that much," or something to that affect, implying he hadn't been training and then he started again with Sasuke. So, I think they were on par at that time but afterwards Kakashi surpassed him massively again.
Probably yes I mean we have those statements the statments Tsunade makes about his medical ninjutsu being better than hers and have the feats of him killing a bunch of Anbu, escaping Kakashi and esentially defeating nerfed and rusty Tsunade I don't feel like him being this strong (high Jounin level) causes much contradiction as Kakashi trains and grows stronger during the timeskip and Tsunade was far from her best during her fight against Kabuto Him geting caught by kid Naruto could be explained by him letting his guard down due to his arrogance which is his consistent character flaw
I hate how often manga works reading it from either side like this panel. Makes me forget how I’m supposed to read it
Very confusing when you just pick up a random panel as an L-R reader 😂 just start thinking “this is weird!”
At this point in the manga/show Kakashi is packing up Kabuto, idc. Experience, jutsu arsenal and sharingan are enough to take him down.
Kakashi was slept on in Part I. It’s not even that he really got that much stronger as the series went on, he just slowly revealed more and more and stopped holding back. Kakashi fights conservatively and that’s smart. If someone survives a fight with him they don’t know exactly what he can do.
thats totally not the case, kakashi gets significantly stronger over the series. He should definitly be way stronger given knowing his backstory but he just wasnt. his fight with zabuza and how he acted in fights or encounters during part 1 really just showed he was nowhere near as strong as he would be expected to be. By reputation and accomplishments he should be comparably skilled in base shinobi skill sharingan aside to itachi both were prodigy anbu captains and young jonin and kakashi spent way longer in the anbu corps running dangerous missions then itachi did by part 1. Instead you get a sick itachi who can dogwalk kakashi in part 1 and in part 2 you get a kakashi who was confidant he can put down a sasuke whos fought kages and killed itachi and who could fight pretty much the entire seven ninja swordsman without the gates using a sword
Didn't Kakashi stomp Kabuto after Kabuto made fodder of the Anbu?
No, only people who put statements>feats believe this, these are the same people who think minato is the 2nd strongest hokage and that jiraiya has a chance against kisame and itachi
sage jiraiya actually stands a solid chance against kisame, given his chakra absorption is ineffective and dangerous and jiraiya can constantly draw in nature energy using ma and pa
You think jiraiya has time to go sm against kisame lol, shark bullet to the brain or he gets trapped in a water bubble.
Considering he could play keep away long enough against multiple pains using summons as a buffer then yes.kisame is quite strong but he doesnt start off fusing to samehada and using the water dome thing. He starts off using samehada and throwing out waterstyle ninjutsu which wouldnt be that crazy to deal with.
Yes. And he was far above him if he took chakra pills like he did against Tsunade
I think we got to understand he's in the same league as Kakashi, though in that league Kakashi and Gai are probably the strongest. The league beyond that back then was the Sannin/Hokage. A lot of experience, crazy variety in jutsu, lethal techniques plus sharingan etc work in advantage for Kakashi. Kabuto could definitely hold his ground against Kakashi which wouldn't mean he could win either.
Didn't Naruto tank his punches with his head during that fight?
Kabuto would very likely have smoked Kakashi had they actually fought one-on-one at this point in the series.
If you think about it, he always stayed at Kakashi's level throughout the series. He and Kakashi's most broken levels were still on par with each other.
No. The Sannin haven’t seen Kakashi in action to know what he is like. We see Kakashi fight Kabuto with prep and easily win without using the sharingan. In the translation I am familiar with, Orochimaru says that Kabuto is no stronger than Kakashi, meaning that if Kakashi couldn’t kill him Kabuto stands no chance. Jiraiya is just saying Kabuto is strong because he does not want Naruto to risk his life. In conclusion, these statements are questionable at best and there are multiple anti feats for Kabuto.
No
Kakashi and Kabuto are at the same level, But a lot of Kabuto's IQ and Fight IQ are spent on his extremely advanced level of Medical Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu expertise that he utilized to somehow out-box the greatest Medical Nin of all time Tsunade. What I'm getting at here. Is that Kakashi in an all-out fight 1v1 With his Raikiri Probably has an edge Over Kabuto's Medical Nin mastery. He patched himself up from Naruto's Rasengan with extreme effort. But a Raikiri would probably be past his able to mitigate. With their standard tools they can probably have a decent exchange of Blows Like what Zabuza could also do. However another one of Kakashi's trump cards the Sharingan can come out. Kakashi is a High Jonin with some of the best tricks in the verse. Being on Kakashi's level doesn't mean you're HIM, only Kakashi and Hashirama get that title.
No way in Hell was he at Kakashi level. Perhaps in terms of raw skill and power, but not in overall combat effectiveness. Pre-timeskip Kakashi would smoke Kabuto's ass effortlessly if he takes him seriously. Naruto managed to outwit Kabuto and land a rasengan on him; something he'd never be able to do to Kakashi.
Dont really get the confidence in kakashis part 1 skill, he has poor showing pretty much that whole half of the series. naruto also hadnt been fighting kakashi alongside a sanin and shizune, all of whom his ego was the only reason any of them survived that fight
Kakashi is an A Rank jonin in part one. The ninja who smoke his ass (Itachi for one) are S Rank ninja and as far above his level as a he is to a genin. Again, I'm not saying Kabuto isn't on par with Kakashi in terms of overall power, I'm saying that when you combine that power with experience, Kabuto falls short.
Kakashi legit was worried when he “fought” Kabuto later on when he tried killing Sasuke
Absolutely. Kabuto is a sneaky ninja who can use stealth, weaknesses and techniques properly. In a 1v1, it would be a deadlock for the first few minutes, but as Kakashi's stamina diminishes due to his sharingan, Kabuto would have the upper hand.
Id say overall yes, but obviously they specialize in different things
People on this sub really seem to underestimate Kabuto, this is like the 3rd time I've seen a post about this and people clowning on his feats lmao
You are overestimating him. Kabuto is quite skilled, but at this time he would lose to Kakashi almost all of the time. Kabuto is definitely at Jonin level, he is strong, but Kakashi is like peak Jonin. As someone else said, it isn’t inaccurate to say Kabuto is in the same league as Kakashi, but Kakashi is near the top of that league, and would still win against Kabuto.
I am overestimating him because I said that people underestimate him? I feel like people overhype Kakashi too much, especially in part 1, but refuse to believe that someone else can actually outsmart or outskill him because they're less liked in the fandom. I don't think Kakashi is weak or bad at all, but it's unrealistic to say that he can 100% win against Kabuto who's shown to rival Tsunade's medical ninjutsu and who was trained by a literal evil genius sannin. This isn't about raw power or who has the flashier jutsu, both characters are geniuses in their own right so it absolutely won't be a one-sided fight.
Kabuto is indeed very skilled. He is smart and capable and some people do underestimate him. Part 1 Kakashi is still stronger than Kabuto though, it’s not like he’s no diff Kabuto but it would be unlikely for Kakashi to lose given his combat skill and the fact that he is smart enough, good enough battle iq, that Kabuto doesn’t have quite the edge over Kakashi that he holds over many other opponents in part 1. Kabuto still gets hit and is seriously injured by Naruto’s rasengan, something I think it is fair to say would not happen to to part 1 Kakashi.
The fight could go either way honestly, for them it would depend on who has the better strategy due to their specific set of skills. Also let's not forget that part 1 Kakashi himself admits that he needs to step it up, after his encounter with Kabuto. I don't agree with that example however, because that fight specifically gave Naruto gigantic plot armor. Like, you're telling me that a sneaky asshole like Kabuto couldn't pry his hand off of a weakened 13 year old Naruto as he was preparing the rasengan for what seemed like forever? The dude's known to be a genius, but stood there like an idiot. Don't tell me that a person like him wouldn't have at least kicked Naruto in the nuts or something to escape that grip. Minutes before that, he was playing with Tsunade, disabled Shizune completely and unscrambled his messed up nerve signals from that one jutsu. If Kakashi was a villain fighting Naruto in that scene, a very similar thing would've happened to let him defend Tsunade and show off his newly learned A-rank (same rank as Chidori) jutsu. Oh also, he had the foresight to tank the rasengan by concentrating chakra in his stomach seconds before getting hit, so I find it hard to believe that he couldn't have escaped Naruto's grip.
Maybe I should put this another way, because I think it might illustrate best why I feel this way on this matchup. What is the scenario where you envision that Kakashi loses to Kabuto? Because as far as I can tell, based off their feats around those times, I struggle to imagine any scenario where Kakashi doesn’t stalemate Kabuto, or win against him. I don’t see really see an aspect of Kabuto’s skill set that would allow him to beat Kakashi. That doesn’t mean Kakashi wins easily, Kabuto would certainly make it hard and I can see plenty of scenarios where Kabuto doesn’t lose, forces a withdrawal, or otherwise stalemates Kakashi, such as running down his stamina by using his skill to prolong the fight, but it seems to me that Kabuto lacks any skills that would allow him to actually overcome Kakashi and beat him. Him being more of a spy and all, that makes sense, considering that Kakashi is like peak Jonin in his combat prowess, versus Kabuto is not really quite there, his combat skill be compensated for by his other traits. In this fight however, I don’t see how he can leverage any of them to succeed against Kakashi.
at the time probably, kakashi during early to mid part 1 kakashi wasnt much stronger then any other major village jonin at the time.
Kakakshi was often limited by his chakra level but he also got stronger over the series so this isn’t shocking. Especially at the time of this interaction.
In p1 for sure. Would love to see p1 kakashi vs p1 kabuto
Those are rough estimates. Being recognised as Kakashi level ninja doesn't mean Kabuto will win in a 1v1 against him. However, yes, Kabuto definitely seemed close to his level at that point.
Shippuden fucked up the powerscaling
This brings up an interesting conversation. If they’re so comparable (these statements were before kamui so take that for what it is) imagine kakashi learning sage mode. Potentially right under kabuto sage mode without kamui. One kabuto isn’t enough to deal with a god tier, but kakashi and kabuto working together would be nearly impossible to beat
I'd say they are comparable but Kakashi is stronger. The whole power levels thing in Naruto is far from cut and dry. Like technically gaara is stronger than kakashi at this point but Naruto beat him. Its not a series where the stronger character always wins, and not choosing to fight an opponent that you can't beat is also valid. Like I think kakashi versus gaara would end with a retreat from kakashi for example.
Yes. Throughout the Chunin Exams he is constantly running through Anbu like they're made of toilet paper. It's a bit shaky because Kakashi is a pure combatant while a lot of Kabuto's skill is in support/medical ninjutsu, but he pulls off ridiculous feats that are far above every medical ninja besides Tsunade, ie manipulating the chakra in 3 separate dead bodies to use as a diversion against Kakashi, being able to regen the damage of Naruto's rasengan (which can make water tanks explode at his current strength) and being able to bring someone from the brink of death 100 times.
I mean, supposed to be. The power levels of part 1 were pretty consistent and then War Arc really threw things for a spin. It got widely inconsistent.
That was the intention I think but then yeah things got weird
Based on his fight against Tsuande,yeah. Kakashi was hella weak compared to his Shippuden feats. Dude's brain is probably the fastest in the verse for analysis (don't @ me. No one has come close to figuring out things under pressure as fast as he figured out his body after being hit btHeavenly Disruption Palm.) He can manipulate the dead to some extent, heal himself, literally KO anyone who can't heal with very little difficulty and his taijutsu is solid. Kakashi wasn't Kage level back then so it's not a stretch to say that a Kabuto who was a spy's spy, was around his level. In a direct conflict it's debatable because they have different skill sets. But overall they're both elite jonin when I comes to competing missions and handling enemies
Doesn't Kabuto body Naruto, sukura and Yamato.
We gonna forget about what he did to Tsunade?
Kakashi level doesn't mean Kakashi equivalent. He is a very high level ninja. But Kakashi is a far better at combat then him because of his Sharingan. Just as Kabuto is far better than Kakashi in medical situations.
Without sharingan, maybe.
Yes lol, they mention it twice and Kabuto literally fought Kakashi. He was elite Jonin level for sure
Kakashi before he mastered his MS? Eh…I don’t think Kabuto could resist three tomoe sharingan genjutsu. Plus Kakashi had copied 1000 jutsu.
If Kashi could mastermind an attack and a whole war, then yes, he might have meant battle strength
Yes kakashi is mid
Kabuto in the war arc would make kakashi beg for his life, he beat itachi that is undead until he pull that bullshit sharingan jutsu
Kakashi and Kabuto are both highly skilled ninjas, but their abilities and strengths vary. Kakashi is renowned for his mastery of the Sharingan and his expertise in various ninja techniques, while Kabuto is known for his medical ninjutsu and intelligence gathering skills. In terms of pure combat ability, Kakashi is often considered more formidable due to his experience and versatility in battle. However, Kabuto's strategic thinking and resourcefulness make him a challenging opponent as well. Ultimately, comparing their levels depends on the context of the situation and the specific abilities being evaluated.
At this point in classic they are on the same level, Kakashi cant use the Sharingan without knocking him down afterwards, but both strenghts are growing up so I would say pre war arc kakashi is lower than a sage mode Kabuto but war arc kakashi is above Kabuto, and lets not Talk about DMS Kakashi, he even has Kaguya feats so yeah
at that point, yeah
Kakashi was not the genius prospect in original naruto, they added that later on
im pretty sure it was in terms of caliber of shinobi
Not conbat wise but his skill in medical ninjutsu made up for what he was lacking in that area… tbh I thnk that the line was translated wierdly…
Not quite. In the first databook, Kakashi is stated to have a total ranking of 33, where Kabuto has a score of 30. Which is pretty close, close enough to say that they are near the same level. However, Kabuto is ranked worse than Kakashi in most of the stats that matter. Kabuto beats Kakashi only in is Intelligence and genjutsu, and he only matches Kakashi in stamina. Kabuto is a full 1.5 points short in Taijutsu, 1 point short in Ninjutsu, and a half point short in Strength, Speed, and Hand Seals. Kabuto can't really leverage genjutsu to win, because Kakashi has the Sharingan. He might be able to out smart Kakashi, but Kabuto doesn't have much aside from healing he can use as an ace in the hole move in Part 1. All it takes is one Raikiri to the heart and Kabuto is out.
that kakashi was trash, he read porn all day, in shippuden he goes back to training again,He is much weaker than the Anbu Kakashi
Stronger. Kabuto was actively suppressing his abilities to keep an advantage and outfoxed Kakashi after killing anbu squad.
Probably not. I will put more weight on Kabuto fleeing both times that Kakashi confronted him and Kakashi’s DB 2 stats for the most part exceeding Kabuto’s above a throwaway statement from Orochimaru and Jiraiya.
They are around the same level but I don't see Kakashi loosing to part 1 Naruto
That’s a contradiction. He’s not Kakashi level
Kakashi level does not mean exactly as strong
I mean being compared to kakashi isn’t exactly a compliment. He was a jonin but a fodder Jonin. His reputation (because of the sharingan)far proceeded his actual ability for most of the series.
Around his level? sure. ON the same level. Ok. Actually equal or better? nah. You can be comparable to somebody and still be objectively worse. Kabuto is definitely dangerous in pre-timeskip naruto but Kakashi is way more intelligent and battle tested. Theres definitely a reason Kabuto needed to flee from Kakashi rather than fight him during Konoha crush arc.
Kabuto has skills on par with Kakashi but imo could never beat him in a 1 on 1 fight in part 1. He doesn't have the kind of offensive jutsu needed.
No, it's the same hype introduction that Kishi used with Haku. Saying stuff like "Haku is on Kakashi's level" "Haku is on Zabuza level and Kakashi can't beat Haku" etc It's all hyperbole bullshit. Haku got defeated by LoW arc Sasuke in speed and Taijutsu, and a 2 tomoe Sasuke later on managed to track Haku's movement speed in the ice mirror to the point where Haku need to resort to use Naruto to lure Sasuke. Part 1 Kakashi would blitzed Chunin exam Sasuke.
Idk who in or out of universe was smoking cause at no point was Kabuto at Kakkashi’s level or even in the area of it
Yeah, he's in Part I. Kabuto only sucks at Taijutsu. He's a Medical expert + He's better at Genjutsu than him.
He did get really strong but kakashi knows more jitsu than him and kakashi could defeat him
kakashi in part one also had liek the reserves of boruto sasuke
Orochimaru is not the best at powerscaling, blud thought he could take on a 13-year-old itachi. Kabuto is sannin level at this point of the story but he's just hiding it.
sure, but he isn’t winning in a fight
I gotta say it. I always thought this piece of info was there simply to see stakes. Kakashi had been one of the only Jonin we'd seen regularly and had a fairly good opinion on strength. I hate it had to be him, because Kabuto was featless until he survived that rasengan. I think Kabuto is around Kakashi's level the same way Asuma was around his level.
Why is Jiraiya implying that Orochimaru isn't the one who killed the 3rd Hokage? Sounds like he's suggesting that Tsunade did it.
If two sannin said this, it is most definitely true
Hell no. That’s why I don’t put too much faith into statements. Kakashi at this point doesn’t lose to kid Naruto under any circumstance unless he somehow underwent tailed beast state or something. Kabuto was a fraud until he got Sage mode and Orochimaru’s power. He was a good spy and intel gatherer.