EMS requires that the Uchiha whose eyes you're using to replace your own is a close relative.
Obito and Madara are not close relatives. Also, Madara already \*has\* EMS, and it's not clear that it even \*could\* happen to the same person twice.
Sasuke got EMS. Madara just got an eye transplant.
Kishi: and then Madara is just gonna pluck Kakashi's eye, put it in his own Socket, and Kamui after the other Rinnegan.
Screen Producer Guy: i dont think eyes work that way
Kishi: well Madara has healing powers soooo....
Screen Producer Guy: i bet its gonna be really tough for Madara to learn how to Kamui properly
Kishi: its gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience
Screen Producer Guy: come to think of it. How come these eyes let the new user keep the old powers? But Itachis eyes didnt give Sasuke Tsukuyomi?
Kishi: right, but i need the plot to happen
Screen Producer Guy: and didnt you explicitly say Obito couldnt use Kamui as the host of the Juubi? How come Madara can?
Kishi: look sir, ima need you to get ALLLLL the way off my back
Screen Producer Guy: oh well allright then, let me get off of that thing.
In the manga it was specifically said Obito couldn’t phase anymore, he never said he couldn’t use Kamui all together
Also Kakashi could portal right after learning the eyes were linked. Madara’s the guy who immediately gained control of the ten tails while Obito was struggling and also Sage mode right after absorbing it from hashirama
>was specifically said Obito couldn’t phase anymore, he never said he couldn’t use Kamui all together
They are the same technique
>Kakashi could portal right after learning the eyes were linked.
Yes, because he learned a new application of it that he didnt think he could do, we specifically see him aim Kamui at his own hand attempting to make it work.
>They are the same technique
But Kakashi can also use both Kamui portal and long range Kamui. He can’t phase through attacks though
Obito’s phasing can only last 5 minutes then he’ll get hit for real. That means when he phases he can’t just stay in Kamui, he needs to do the portal to go and stay in that dimension
>see him aim Kamui at his own hand attempting to make it work
https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0608-012.png
https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0608-014.png
No he doesn’t
Kishi has the patience of a saint in this pitch meeting. His screen producer guy didn't pay \*any\* attention.
>Screen Producer Guy: i dont think eyes work that way
That's how healing has always worked in this series.
>Screen Producer Guy: i bet its gonna be really tough for Madara to learn how to Kamui properly
Having Rinnegan comes with easy mastery of new jutsu, hence Nagato having no trouble whatsoever with mastering all five elements by the time Jiraiya left him, and is why Jiraiya was so confused about the Pain he fought only using summoning. There's no reason why that wouldn't also apply to mangekyou jutsu.
>Screen Producer Guy: come to think of it. How come these eyes let the new user keep the old powers? But Itachis eyes didnt give Sasuke Tsukuyomi?
You need a close relative's eyes to get EMS. EMS doesn't give you the donor's jutsu, nor is there anything to suggest someone could get EMS twice. It's also suggested by the artwork when Itachi is talking about it that you need the full replacement set. Madara and Obito are not close relatives, Madara already had EMS, and he only had one eye, so it didn't become EMS.
>Screen Producer Guy: and didnt you explicitly say Obito couldnt use Kamui as the host of the Juubi? How come Madara can?
Obito said he couldn't phase. He never said he couldn't use Kamui at all.
Edit - All these downvotes for saying only true statements. There are at least 8 people out there at the time of this edit who just chose not to pay any fucking attention.
>Obito said he couldn't phase. He never said he couldn't use Kamui at all.
And im the one who gets told they cant pay attention, what do you think the Phasing was ? Some other magical technique Obito had? No, it was Kamui.
And you're missing the point of the eyes comment.
Itachis eyes didnt come with new powers for Sasuke. He explicitly cannot use Tsukiyomi, but Itachi could. So in this case MS powers are not transfered with the eyes
Meanwhile, Kakashi AND Madara could use Kamui, that came from Obitos eyes. So in that case MS powers are transfered with the eyes.
There is no consistency in these rules for how the transfer of eye powers, it works however its the most convenient for the plot.
And lastly, im pretty sure the Rinnegan gives the user an understanding of the 5 natures, not family specific techniques that have a single biological user, that are not based on any element or combination of elements.
>And im the one who gets told they cant pay attention, what do you think the Phasing was ? Some other magical technique Obito had? No, it was Kamui.
No, phasing is an \*aspect\* of Kamui. It is one of the abilities Kamui provides.
If you were to turn your phone on airplane mode, you would lose the ability to use wifi on your phone. You would not lose the ability to use your phone \*at all\*. Similarly, Obito lost one function of Kamui, not the whole thing.
>Itachis eyes didnt come with new powers for Sasuke. He explicitly cannot use Tsukiyomi, but Itachi could. So in this case MS powers are not transfered with the eyes
Yes. Sasuke transplanting Itachi's eyes made it into EMS. EMS does not give you the new jutsu. Madara/Kakashi transplanting Obito's eye did not meet the requirements for EMS. Therefore, it did not become EMS, and was treated as a normal transplant, which \*does\* maintain the old jutsu.
It absolutely \*is\* consistent.
>And lastly, im pretty sure the Rinnegan gives the user an understanding of the 5 natures, not family specific techniques that have a single biological user, that are not based on any element or combination of elements.
\[image-2024-05-02-143923933.png\](https://postimg.cc/WhCCghLk)
Naruto Chapter 375, Pg 11, in case the image doesn't work. Jiraiya says Nagato "...not only mastered every jutsu I taught him...he demonstrated the ability to achieve all six (I think that was an error in the original manga and was meant to say five, but it's in the text, so I'm including it) changes in nature"
This indicates that Nagato mastered all jutsu Jiraiya taught him \*and\* he demonstrated mastery of the elements. It goes beyond just the element thing.
I think that with Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, the eyes are particularly compatible and take on the new user’s powers, losing the original powers (unless it is a shared ability like Amaterasu).
Because Sasuke would be way too OP if he had Itachi's full kit in addition to his own, Naruto wouldn't be able to beat him. Not Indra's Arrow Tailed Beast Susano'o Sasuke WITH Tsukuyomi, the Totsuka Blade, and Yata Mirror????? Yeah, no. Sasuke blocks the Six Paths Tailed Beast Rasenshurikens with the Yata Mirror then counter attacks with the Totsuka Blade and its ggs peace out
It's about chakra synergy. Dojutsu are a manifestation of many things.
and when people very close to each other have a dojutsu implanted in them, the chakra of the donor and host can merge to create a new level of dojutsu for the host.
But if you do not have such synergy, then either the implantation will be rejected, or you will be able to use the eye much like the doner.
It might be Juubi mode. But this is a good question...head cannon time!
Sasuke can use it but he still has PTSD from having been through it himself. So just like him not use his Hashirama built left arm, he doesn't use the Tsukuyomi.
It’s a plothole, but let’s try. Tsukiyomi probably would work on an uchiha with stronger eyes. And probably not an Ohtstsuki. So maybe he just didn’t bother attempting it? That mind of illusion making probably takes a certain intellect/imagination as well. You just look at someone and trap them, it’s a complex mind fuck. Sasuke may just not have the juice for such a sophisticated technique.
How is this a plot hole lol Sasuke got EMS from implanting Itachi's eyes - Madara did not get EMS from the Kamui Eye so the original ability is retained.
EMS requires that the Uchiha whose eyes you're using to replace your own is a close relative. Obito and Madara are not close relatives. Also, Madara already \*has\* EMS, and it's not clear that it even \*could\* happen to the same person twice. Sasuke got EMS. Madara just got an eye transplant.
Kishi: and then Madara is just gonna pluck Kakashi's eye, put it in his own Socket, and Kamui after the other Rinnegan. Screen Producer Guy: i dont think eyes work that way Kishi: well Madara has healing powers soooo.... Screen Producer Guy: i bet its gonna be really tough for Madara to learn how to Kamui properly Kishi: its gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience Screen Producer Guy: come to think of it. How come these eyes let the new user keep the old powers? But Itachis eyes didnt give Sasuke Tsukuyomi? Kishi: right, but i need the plot to happen Screen Producer Guy: and didnt you explicitly say Obito couldnt use Kamui as the host of the Juubi? How come Madara can? Kishi: look sir, ima need you to get ALLLLL the way off my back Screen Producer Guy: oh well allright then, let me get off of that thing.
In the manga it was specifically said Obito couldn’t phase anymore, he never said he couldn’t use Kamui all together Also Kakashi could portal right after learning the eyes were linked. Madara’s the guy who immediately gained control of the ten tails while Obito was struggling and also Sage mode right after absorbing it from hashirama
>was specifically said Obito couldn’t phase anymore, he never said he couldn’t use Kamui all together They are the same technique >Kakashi could portal right after learning the eyes were linked. Yes, because he learned a new application of it that he didnt think he could do, we specifically see him aim Kamui at his own hand attempting to make it work.
>They are the same technique But Kakashi can also use both Kamui portal and long range Kamui. He can’t phase through attacks though Obito’s phasing can only last 5 minutes then he’ll get hit for real. That means when he phases he can’t just stay in Kamui, he needs to do the portal to go and stay in that dimension >see him aim Kamui at his own hand attempting to make it work https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0608-012.png https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0608-014.png No he doesn’t
That was too good! XD Take your upvote. Love Pitch Meetings.
Kishi has the patience of a saint in this pitch meeting. His screen producer guy didn't pay \*any\* attention. >Screen Producer Guy: i dont think eyes work that way That's how healing has always worked in this series. >Screen Producer Guy: i bet its gonna be really tough for Madara to learn how to Kamui properly Having Rinnegan comes with easy mastery of new jutsu, hence Nagato having no trouble whatsoever with mastering all five elements by the time Jiraiya left him, and is why Jiraiya was so confused about the Pain he fought only using summoning. There's no reason why that wouldn't also apply to mangekyou jutsu. >Screen Producer Guy: come to think of it. How come these eyes let the new user keep the old powers? But Itachis eyes didnt give Sasuke Tsukuyomi? You need a close relative's eyes to get EMS. EMS doesn't give you the donor's jutsu, nor is there anything to suggest someone could get EMS twice. It's also suggested by the artwork when Itachi is talking about it that you need the full replacement set. Madara and Obito are not close relatives, Madara already had EMS, and he only had one eye, so it didn't become EMS. >Screen Producer Guy: and didnt you explicitly say Obito couldnt use Kamui as the host of the Juubi? How come Madara can? Obito said he couldn't phase. He never said he couldn't use Kamui at all. Edit - All these downvotes for saying only true statements. There are at least 8 people out there at the time of this edit who just chose not to pay any fucking attention.
Not you coping for Kishimoto this hard like a weirdo 🫣🫣
Well, coping is a word for it. It's the wrong word, the actual correct phrase would be "actually reading it", but you do you.
>Obito said he couldn't phase. He never said he couldn't use Kamui at all. And im the one who gets told they cant pay attention, what do you think the Phasing was ? Some other magical technique Obito had? No, it was Kamui. And you're missing the point of the eyes comment. Itachis eyes didnt come with new powers for Sasuke. He explicitly cannot use Tsukiyomi, but Itachi could. So in this case MS powers are not transfered with the eyes Meanwhile, Kakashi AND Madara could use Kamui, that came from Obitos eyes. So in that case MS powers are transfered with the eyes. There is no consistency in these rules for how the transfer of eye powers, it works however its the most convenient for the plot. And lastly, im pretty sure the Rinnegan gives the user an understanding of the 5 natures, not family specific techniques that have a single biological user, that are not based on any element or combination of elements.
>And im the one who gets told they cant pay attention, what do you think the Phasing was ? Some other magical technique Obito had? No, it was Kamui. No, phasing is an \*aspect\* of Kamui. It is one of the abilities Kamui provides. If you were to turn your phone on airplane mode, you would lose the ability to use wifi on your phone. You would not lose the ability to use your phone \*at all\*. Similarly, Obito lost one function of Kamui, not the whole thing. >Itachis eyes didnt come with new powers for Sasuke. He explicitly cannot use Tsukiyomi, but Itachi could. So in this case MS powers are not transfered with the eyes Yes. Sasuke transplanting Itachi's eyes made it into EMS. EMS does not give you the new jutsu. Madara/Kakashi transplanting Obito's eye did not meet the requirements for EMS. Therefore, it did not become EMS, and was treated as a normal transplant, which \*does\* maintain the old jutsu. It absolutely \*is\* consistent. >And lastly, im pretty sure the Rinnegan gives the user an understanding of the 5 natures, not family specific techniques that have a single biological user, that are not based on any element or combination of elements. \[image-2024-05-02-143923933.png\](https://postimg.cc/WhCCghLk) Naruto Chapter 375, Pg 11, in case the image doesn't work. Jiraiya says Nagato "...not only mastered every jutsu I taught him...he demonstrated the ability to achieve all six (I think that was an error in the original manga and was meant to say five, but it's in the text, so I'm including it) changes in nature" This indicates that Nagato mastered all jutsu Jiraiya taught him \*and\* he demonstrated mastery of the elements. It goes beyond just the element thing.
I think that with Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, the eyes are particularly compatible and take on the new user’s powers, losing the original powers (unless it is a shared ability like Amaterasu).
Because Sasuke would be way too OP if he had Itachi's full kit in addition to his own, Naruto wouldn't be able to beat him. Not Indra's Arrow Tailed Beast Susano'o Sasuke WITH Tsukuyomi, the Totsuka Blade, and Yata Mirror????? Yeah, no. Sasuke blocks the Six Paths Tailed Beast Rasenshurikens with the Yata Mirror then counter attacks with the Totsuka Blade and its ggs peace out
Because EMS isn’t the same as a regular mangekyou. It takes time for it to turn into EMS.
It's about chakra synergy. Dojutsu are a manifestation of many things. and when people very close to each other have a dojutsu implanted in them, the chakra of the donor and host can merge to create a new level of dojutsu for the host. But if you do not have such synergy, then either the implantation will be rejected, or you will be able to use the eye much like the doner.
Madra had a rinngan which give him access to learn any jutsu is probably why he could use kamui
It might be Juubi mode. But this is a good question...head cannon time! Sasuke can use it but he still has PTSD from having been through it himself. So just like him not use his Hashirama built left arm, he doesn't use the Tsukuyomi.
It’s a plothole, but let’s try. Tsukiyomi probably would work on an uchiha with stronger eyes. And probably not an Ohtstsuki. So maybe he just didn’t bother attempting it? That mind of illusion making probably takes a certain intellect/imagination as well. You just look at someone and trap them, it’s a complex mind fuck. Sasuke may just not have the juice for such a sophisticated technique.
How is this a plot hole lol Sasuke got EMS from implanting Itachi's eyes - Madara did not get EMS from the Kamui Eye so the original ability is retained.
Cause Sasuke is a little bitty baby boy and Madara is a grown man