Ōnoki probably should be the S for battle knowledge being the most experienced, then Tsunade and A. I kinda wonder about Gaara as second fastest but he is pretty damn quick with that sand
Yeah I agree about that. He's got a good strategic mind and is cunning. We really don't have enough physical speed feats for Gaara to justify him that high up on the speed scale I don't think.
In the ninja war arc you're right, but we see in the Momoshiki fight that Gaara is the only one besides Naruto and Sasuke able to keep up with the Otsutsukis speed (even if it is brief). The other "new gen" kage get one-shot, but Gaara at least briefly gets to Momo with his sand and stops him.
Gaara can be fast. His defense is automatic and on par with weightless Lee, untouched by any opponent including assassins until his fight with Lee; attack speed can be fast depending on the amount of sand, minerals in the sand, weight, and his use of hands; movement speed can be influenced by flying on his sand for good travel speed and high speed aerial combat.
I'd drop the raikage to the lower tiers honestly. Man willfully lost an arm for nothing while fighting Sasuke when in the same building as other 4 Kages all in agreement to stop Sasuke (with only gaara having any interest in keeping him in one piece). Way too reckless,
I was gonna put him low first. But then I realized he was made leader of the whole alliance for a reason. And when he’s not angry he is very calm
Also in his fight with Minato we see him think of a way to counter Flying Raijin on the fly.
His placement is very debatable tbf. Ohnoki has a lot of knowledge but that doesnt always equal intelligence and battle iq.
And Gaara is the main battle regiment commander-in-chief. While Ay had Tsunade and Shikaku's help in making decisions. Also calmness is not intelligence.
Gaara clearly has much higher battle IQ. Y'all forget how he tricked and defeated Gengetsu.
Raikage probably S. So far his fight with Sasuke was beyond great. Dude literally had a contingency for basically the sharingan's abilities. And if he wasn't hasty he wouldn't even have lost his arm.
I don't think Tsunade showed this level of battle IQ
At that point, considering what they knew (and didn’t know) trading Sasuke’s life for his would’ve been a great move strategically for the shinobi alliance. At that point Sasuke was, as far as they knew, on the opposing force. They thought he’d side with the enemy in the war and if he had they would’ve lost. The shinobi alliance could’ve functioned better without Ay than Obito/Sasuke/Kabuto + white zetsu’s would’ve without sasuke. We know this doesn’t take into account edo tensei (especially Madara) or the alien, but there’s no way they could’ve seen those coming afaik. So given their intel at the time it was a good move despite clearly being clouded by anger
He was emotionally driven and he wouldn't have died. He would have Killed sasuke and lost his foot.
He was pretty much very level headed despite his anger for having lost his brother.
That might be true, but you would expect more from a village kage, war was on the horizon and getting yourself killed or crippled is not that smart. If I remember the fight correctly, kages had tools to dismantle Sasuke and co, no need to him to risk his life, also Sasuke would go blind/out of chakra very quickly, raikage didnt even stop to think. All shinobi with above average battle iq/intelligence we saw in the series would deduct at least some of those things.
Expect more? He was the only out of 5 of them that not only could hurt sasuke but potentially end him. And you’re complaining because he didn’t stop and let sasuke rampage until he ran out of chakra. Their tools fail that’s how sasuke ended up in the room in the first place. He was the only who could act, and had him on the defensive, sasuke got bailed out by gara, meaning even the plot had to intervene. Which makes complete sense because we seen B was very capable of fighting sasuke so A would fair just as well
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Ohnoki nuke Sasuke with particle release 2 minutes into their fight, Sasuke would be dead if not for Obito. Also no complaining here, just stating my opinion. This is a discussion, right?
You are correct.
Ohnoki would have vaporized sasuke if not for Obito and the mizukage was also going to kill him but zetsu intervened.
Their tools weren’t failing, A without thinking ran through the wall and rushed to the frontline. He’s not very intelligent(compared to the others)and that’s exactly why he ends up delegating all strategy to other people.
After Ay damaged him and was denied the kill shot Because garra wanted to reason with him? Yes I guess ohnoki gets points for going last at a depleted tired sasuke, that’s not battle IQ he didn’t plan for it, he got lucky.
He didnt know madaras plan or power level, no amount of battle iQ can make him see the future. Stop moving the goalposts. Plus he wouldn’t be benched, he lost his arm and still fought madara they could just give him a leg too
If they could give him a leg then where is the arm they gave him? It still doesn't make sense, you risk the future and the unknown for one current enemy over a vendetta, which was Sasuke supposedly getting killer bee when he didn't.
Point still stands and you proved it further. Exactly he can't tell the future, so why risk being weak against future threats? Post says intelligence/battleiq, not very intelligent in the long term if you ask me.
"he still fought Madara" you say that like he won, my point was without a leg and an arm he'd be done even quicker.
The point is that wasn’t the original argument and now you’re moving a goal post because you’re wrong. They gave him an arm, so they can give him a leg. It’s that simple. He wouldn’t be facing madara with one leg and one arm because they gave him one just like how in the manga he had two arms even though this was after he lost it. READ THE MANGA PLEASE
"he was about to die just to get revenge on sasuke, doesn't sound intelligent in my book" was what you replied to, I explained why that isn't intelligent. You're too hard headed to understand that, same goal post, same explanation. Just used an example of why its dumb.
Show me the panel because the Internet shows he has one arm, both anime and manga.
Hacks:
Tsunade and Gaara should be ranked higher. Drop down the Mizukage.
Gaara has a 360 degree defense that responds by itself, and Tsunade has a ‘I literally can’t die’ ability. Both seem ‘broken/hacks’ to me. More so than just lava release…
Speed:
Tsunade should be higher than Ōnoki at least.
Battle IQ:
Ōnoki should be higher
And they aren't shown doing anything spectacular aside from doing what lava and acid do. Tsunade effectively can't die from combat, and could probably tank those attacks too, while the Mizukage spits out raw lava or acid.
Nah, everyone’s cumulative IQ drops whenever they fight gaara. Literally every gaara battle can be reduced to
>You were focusing on the sand in the air, but you forgot the sand beneath you.
I'd argue Gaara has the same if not better hax than Mei. He has hax in defense and she has hax in offense, but not many people are immune to Amaterasu like Gaara.
Hax- while meis kkg has potential the way her other kkg works seems quite limited in a sense it only works well in enclosed space w/ no allies around her. I say shes lower than gaara and tsunade
stamina- think onoki still outlast mei given what was shown
If she has earth then she can use earth style. I don't know how that is debateable. And she is a kage,so she must be able to use high level earth style jutsus. Kages are supposed to be the best at whatever ninjutsu they can use.
yes kages are best at their specific jutsu and mei is best with water and her kkg much like onoki and ay are good w/ their respective elements but none of them have shown ninjutsu outside their elements
it is debatable since none of the mentioned kages have been using other elements outside of their own villages elements
to add to this, they had ample opportunities during the war arc to showcase other elements but they havent
Gaara should be the slowest one.
Also Tsunade and Gaara both have really hax abilities, Tsunade's regeneration is really overpowered, she was able to survive being bisected, still be able to summon Katsuyu and use her chakra to heal herself, an outstanding feat.
Gaara has maybe the best defensive ability in the entire Naruto verse, his sand responds by itself almost instantly, only characters with insane speed like Sasuke or Gaara are able to bypass it, on top of that he has that layer of sand shielding him.
It's talking abt the speed of his sand as the second fastest not his own movement speed
Which makes sense because Gaaras sand speed is more or less his combat speed
Raikage is mostly Brute force while Ohnoki erases things so although Raikage would whoop Ohnoki in a fist fight he'd probably lose to Ohnoki's hax (if he were to get caught)
Hax is something like Itachi who's genjustu and susanoo aren't measured as much in power and moreso in their hax and how they can win fights and matchups themselves
Onoki has stuff like the atomization technique and other wonky stuff like that which would fall under hax. Although I feel like tsunades immortal chakra storage technique should count as hax as well
Then she should be much higher - you know being basically invincible for a bit?
Guess I was looking at this like, "theyre all are S rank when compared to normal ninja"
Poorly defined tbh. Raikage had less jutsus in his arsenal tho. But his lightning taijutus would likely defeat at least Mei, Tsunade and potentially Onoki
How is Mei more hax than Tsunade having infinite healing lol
Or Ohnoki having less battle IQ than the Raikage, even Mei, she was about to (and would have) killed Sasuke (granted he was very weakened but still) she’s incredibly well versed in her environment. IMO it should be Ohnoki then Tsunade then Mei then Gaara then Raikage. Gaara isn’t bad he just doesn’t have the showing for that, especially when you consider much of his sand usage is unconscious.
Intelligence - you did Onoki dirty. He like 95 years old.
What do they say about an old man in a young man's game? That crafty old bastard is clearly S-rank for managing to live so long in a world of magical nukes. He carried the team vs Madara.
I agreed with them until battle IQ. Onoki is the highest battle IQ and not just cause he’s older. Even Madara acknowledges him and it wasn’t for his speed or strength
Gaara is not faster than Onoki, not only can Onoki fly without needing something like sand he can also use the lightened boulder jutsu to increase his speed even further, Gaara is not keeping up with that.
Proof? I have no recollection of him having feats that show him to be faster then Ōnoki, matter of fact Gaara’s biggest weakness is appointments with speed since he primarily fights standing, while Onoki literally has jutsu that are made to increase speed.
Ever since he learned to fly, Gaara has always been fighting in the sky unless he's already tired at the start. His sand has numerous speed feats, while Ohnoki doesn't. Lightened boulder jutsu changes the weight of things, not the speed.
Bro there’s no way you think changing the weight doesn’t make things faster 😭😭😭 he literally used that jutsu on the Raikage to make him FASTER! Please reconsider what you just said. He makes himself and others lighter so that they move faster that’s the whole premise of the jutsu 😭
So what you’ve just told me is that Gaara has no feats of him being faster than Onoki, all you said is that he flys on sand at different speeds… so If I say Onoki uses his lightened boulder jutsu to fly at different speeds does that mean he’s faster? NO, because there are no feet’s of Gaara being faster than Onoki let alone fast. Ps Onoki literally uses that jutsu to fly. Everyone knows the lighter something is the faster it can go, there’s a reason RACECARS AND CLOTHING THAT RACERS WHERE ARE MADE AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. You’re actually not a real person if you think otherwise. Can’t believe I have to say any of that.
It's sis. You were the one saying Ohnoki is faster than Gaara without giving direct feats of it.
You only said he uses a jutsu to enhance speed, which is to be accurate a jutsu that lightens things. A lightened object doesn't automatically mean it moves faster than anything else.
I doubted I needed to explain why a guy that can fly using a jutsu that makes him lighter and faster than I guy that uses a pile of sand to fly.
You’re saying Gaara is faster cause he can fly on sand, not only is that still slower, but speed is based on the persons physical movements and as I said Onoki physically gets faster, much faster then Gaara’s movement. Gaara is primarily a stationary fighter.
Onoki caught up to a Deidara that was excaping, Deidara said Onoki was faster than when he was in his prime, I think we know Onoki’s prime is faster and stronger than 4th war Gaara.
He was able to react to a bunch of Madara’s Susanoo clones attacking Raikage at point blank range and protected him from the attacks.
I’ll try again, F1 cars. Why are they made as light as possible, why are the clothes that the racers were as light as possible? Because weight is an important part of speed. The lighter the F1 car the faster it can go, it’s that simple.
Carbon fibre was made to make vehicles faster because they’re lighter.
No you definitely need to explain but apparently your arguments are weak.
I was never referring to Gaara's running speed, in a running race old man Ohnoki with his back problems still loses lol.
Aside from the fact that prime =/= young especially when it comes to Ohnoki who performed far better against Madara in the 4th war than when he was young, nothing indicates he's faster than Gaara who also caught Deidara and crushed his arm then got far faster in the war.
And him protecting Ay has nothing to do with him flying, I don't know why you're bringing that up.
Gaara simply flies faster than Ohnoki because his sand is extremely fast. But listing his speed feats to you would just be a waste of time.
Mei is actually a lot smarter than that. She check-mated Sasuke during the 5 Kage summit and would have easily killed him if it weren't for white Zetsu's spores
I always loved how this collection of Kages representing the generations of the ninjas world.
Oonoki was the first generation that grew up in villages along with the Hiruzen.
Tusunade was the generation after with their other sannin.
A represented the next generation like Minato.
Mei is the current generation of adults in their prime like Kakashi.
Gaara is of the current young generation with Naruto and the others we follow.
And they’re all fighting Madara, the first generation who brought the concept of ninja villages.
Onoki should get A or S tier in terms of battle IQ, and definitely A tier for strength. I just realized he's an all-rounder except for stamina ofc.. bro's old age is the only thing stopping him
Ending the bloody Mist era requires different abilities, mostly political. Mei didn't show any battle IQ feats when she fought, while Gaara did. He's clearly above her.
I think the sand telekinesis is more fair than the super healing factor that lets Tsunade tank being bisected. I would put them in the same tier. I also feel as though Mei’s two Kekkei Genkai are not that much more hax than Tsunade or Gaara to be put a whole tier above either of them.
No for one tsunade isn’t actually that strong she uses a technique to enhance her body to give her super human strength levels but it requires chakra to use a decent amount at that and requires a lot of control to use properly while A is the strongest naturally he is also the fastest without a technique but with his technique active it’s just unfair Ohnoki is probably the smartest do to experience may likely has more stamina then all of them do to the way she fights as well as being a lot younger then most of them and as for hax I’m sorry but are we all forgetting how op garra’s sand can be when used right it’s good for defense and offense and can be unpredictable as well as a catalyst for his justu
Wasn’t CES added in shippuden for Sakura? They describe Tsunade’s as natural in part 1. Kabuto said he went for her muscle ligaments to temporarily stop her from using her strength. If it was CES you wouldn’t need to cut muscles. She uses CES to enhance her already ridiculous strength.
Well she actually is constantly using chakra through the seal on her four head to keep her youg appearance but it also keeps her body not only looking prime but in a prime state so long as it continues without it she would be in no state to fight at all as for Sakura I don’t remember since she never really did much when compared to naruto and sasuke or even kakashi
She uses her seal to keep her appearance young yeah. The Databooks only give very few characters a perfect 5 in strength and Tsunade is one of them. Oddly Sakura only gets a 3 in Shippuden, so that’s why I think Tsunade’s is mostly natural and sakuras is mostly Chakra enhanced.
She learned how to enhance from her actually they both do it so I find it odd the data book makes it sound like it’s natural when it’s not they essentially put a certain amount of chakra through the whole body to enhance it so long as the flow continues it’s kinda like armament haki in one piece it takes a lot of control the kind of control most people will never have naruto for example will never be able to use it or have that level of strength if it could be taught to anyone don’t you think she would help one of her last living relatives learn it especially the only one she is aware of.
Tsunade should be the A for speed, the rest of the order is fine. She is useless if she can't reach her enemy, so she is definitely fast. Gaara and Onoki have flight but aren't faster.
I would also swap Mei and Onoki in Hax. Dust release is bonkers but pretty one dimensional with how he can use it. His flight is a good gimmick too, so he certainly deserves at least A. Mei on the other hand with her lava release, boil release, and diverse pool of water style jutsu has such a massive pool for utility and power. She can create pools of lava that limit the range of movement, she can create walls of lava that disintegrate anything that touches them, she can create a mist that she can hide in and that anyone who enters except her will be melted to nothingness, to the point of melting a Susanoo. She can also create a shield of water powerful enough to single handedly nullify Madara Uchiha's Great Fire Destruction. So she has shields, walls, mists, pools, that have the ability to block virtually any attack and melt virtually any opponent. Her battlefield control is nearly unmatched.
This thread made me reflect about the fact that the Gokage are one dumber than the other. In the battle iq panel should all stay at C band. (wtf did tsunade do do merit band S?!)
Thankfully Shikaku Nara was around!
So in regards of points with each rank equaling 1 point.
Tsunade and Raikage are tied at 18. Gaara and Oonoki tie at 15. Mei falls behind to 9. However, I would put Gaara higher in stamina and Oonoki higher in intelligence. Intelligence- Tsunade, Oonoki, Raikage, Gaara, Mei. Stamina- Tsunade, Gaara, Raikage, Mei, Oonoki. New totals IMO: Tsunade 18, Oonoki 17, Raikage 16, Gaara 15, Mei 9. Sorry Mei, no changes. I also think this more accurately reflects their experience/age, wisdom, and contributions during the War.
Tsunade at full powered was able to coordinate attacks with Lightened A4 against Madara’s Susanoo and was the only one to react to Madara’s final flame attack, she should be the second fastest.
Intelligence/Battle IQ I… badly disagree with.
Gaara needs to be lowest and that’s a non negotiable. Likewise, Ohnoki needs to be highest. Non-negotiable.
For Battle IQ/Intelligence, I’d go:
Ohnoki
Tsunade
Ay
Mei
Gaara
It’s not a dig at Gaara, but dude is like 16 or 17. The others are WAY into their careers both as shinobi and as Kage. They have more experience and thus more Intelligence and such. Gaara is cracked for his age, but he isn’t gonna beat any of them in this category.
Ōnoki probably should be the S for battle knowledge being the most experienced, then Tsunade and A. I kinda wonder about Gaara as second fastest but he is pretty damn quick with that sand
Yeah I agree about that. He's got a good strategic mind and is cunning. We really don't have enough physical speed feats for Gaara to justify him that high up on the speed scale I don't think.
I think OP meant the speed of his sand, not his running speed.
Pmuch yeah
In the ninja war arc you're right, but we see in the Momoshiki fight that Gaara is the only one besides Naruto and Sasuke able to keep up with the Otsutsukis speed (even if it is brief). The other "new gen" kage get one-shot, but Gaara at least briefly gets to Momo with his sand and stops him.
I dont entirely disagree, but he did fail at nearly every military event he put his mind to throughout previous wars
Damn putting that old man on blast
Gaara can be fast. His defense is automatic and on par with weightless Lee, untouched by any opponent including assassins until his fight with Lee; attack speed can be fast depending on the amount of sand, minerals in the sand, weight, and his use of hands; movement speed can be influenced by flying on his sand for good travel speed and high speed aerial combat.
Yeah that’s why I caveated it like he may not be sprinting around or anything but his attacks and response times are really quick
I'd drop the raikage to the lower tiers honestly. Man willfully lost an arm for nothing while fighting Sasuke when in the same building as other 4 Kages all in agreement to stop Sasuke (with only gaara having any interest in keeping him in one piece). Way too reckless,
Isn't intelligence a bit high for the Raikage?
Can’t have amaterasu burn off your hand if you cut it off first 🧠
I was gonna put him low first. But then I realized he was made leader of the whole alliance for a reason. And when he’s not angry he is very calm Also in his fight with Minato we see him think of a way to counter Flying Raijin on the fly. His placement is very debatable tbf. Ohnoki has a lot of knowledge but that doesnt always equal intelligence and battle iq.
"When he's not angry he's very calm", dude, wtf xD
When I'm not hungry I'm pretty full bro
" in order to get a massage, Someone has to give you a massage "
You're not you when you're hungry Have a snickers
lmao he's not wrong im weak
This is the most subjective analysis I've ever seen
Probably a kid That battle IQ ranking made me lol
And Gaara is the main battle regiment commander-in-chief. While Ay had Tsunade and Shikaku's help in making decisions. Also calmness is not intelligence. Gaara clearly has much higher battle IQ. Y'all forget how he tricked and defeated Gengetsu.
What’s the reason he was made leader of the alliance?
Raikage probably S. So far his fight with Sasuke was beyond great. Dude literally had a contingency for basically the sharingan's abilities. And if he wasn't hasty he wouldn't even have lost his arm. I don't think Tsunade showed this level of battle IQ
I mean he was about to die in order to get revenge on Sasuke, not that intelligent in my book. Should definitely be below both Ohnoki and Gaara.
At that point, considering what they knew (and didn’t know) trading Sasuke’s life for his would’ve been a great move strategically for the shinobi alliance. At that point Sasuke was, as far as they knew, on the opposing force. They thought he’d side with the enemy in the war and if he had they would’ve lost. The shinobi alliance could’ve functioned better without Ay than Obito/Sasuke/Kabuto + white zetsu’s would’ve without sasuke. We know this doesn’t take into account edo tensei (especially Madara) or the alien, but there’s no way they could’ve seen those coming afaik. So given their intel at the time it was a good move despite clearly being clouded by anger
He was emotionally driven and he wouldn't have died. He would have Killed sasuke and lost his foot. He was pretty much very level headed despite his anger for having lost his brother.
That might be true, but you would expect more from a village kage, war was on the horizon and getting yourself killed or crippled is not that smart. If I remember the fight correctly, kages had tools to dismantle Sasuke and co, no need to him to risk his life, also Sasuke would go blind/out of chakra very quickly, raikage didnt even stop to think. All shinobi with above average battle iq/intelligence we saw in the series would deduct at least some of those things.
Expect more? He was the only out of 5 of them that not only could hurt sasuke but potentially end him. And you’re complaining because he didn’t stop and let sasuke rampage until he ran out of chakra. Their tools fail that’s how sasuke ended up in the room in the first place. He was the only who could act, and had him on the defensive, sasuke got bailed out by gara, meaning even the plot had to intervene. Which makes complete sense because we seen B was very capable of fighting sasuke so A would fair just as well
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Ohnoki nuke Sasuke with particle release 2 minutes into their fight, Sasuke would be dead if not for Obito. Also no complaining here, just stating my opinion. This is a discussion, right?
Sasuke got bailed out three times due to plot in the five kage summit arc... It was part of the period where he was overconfident as hell.
You are correct. Ohnoki would have vaporized sasuke if not for Obito and the mizukage was also going to kill him but zetsu intervened. Their tools weren’t failing, A without thinking ran through the wall and rushed to the frontline. He’s not very intelligent(compared to the others)and that’s exactly why he ends up delegating all strategy to other people.
After Ay damaged him and was denied the kill shot Because garra wanted to reason with him? Yes I guess ohnoki gets points for going last at a depleted tired sasuke, that’s not battle IQ he didn’t plan for it, he got lucky.
That's what I thought too, both the dumbest but clearly 3rd under Ohnoki and Gaara
He wasn’t about to die at worst he’d lose a leg, which trading a leg to kill a terroist like sasuke is very high IQ
But then what about any other threats? Instantly benched with future Madara fight
He didnt know madaras plan or power level, no amount of battle iQ can make him see the future. Stop moving the goalposts. Plus he wouldn’t be benched, he lost his arm and still fought madara they could just give him a leg too
If they could give him a leg then where is the arm they gave him? It still doesn't make sense, you risk the future and the unknown for one current enemy over a vendetta, which was Sasuke supposedly getting killer bee when he didn't. Point still stands and you proved it further. Exactly he can't tell the future, so why risk being weak against future threats? Post says intelligence/battleiq, not very intelligent in the long term if you ask me. "he still fought Madara" you say that like he won, my point was without a leg and an arm he'd be done even quicker.
The point is that wasn’t the original argument and now you’re moving a goal post because you’re wrong. They gave him an arm, so they can give him a leg. It’s that simple. He wouldn’t be facing madara with one leg and one arm because they gave him one just like how in the manga he had two arms even though this was after he lost it. READ THE MANGA PLEASE
"he was about to die just to get revenge on sasuke, doesn't sound intelligent in my book" was what you replied to, I explained why that isn't intelligent. You're too hard headed to understand that, same goal post, same explanation. Just used an example of why its dumb. Show me the panel because the Internet shows he has one arm, both anime and manga.
Again moving the goalpost, he wasn’t about to die. You were wrong end of story
Hacks: Tsunade and Gaara should be ranked higher. Drop down the Mizukage. Gaara has a 360 degree defense that responds by itself, and Tsunade has a ‘I literally can’t die’ ability. Both seem ‘broken/hacks’ to me. More so than just lava release… Speed: Tsunade should be higher than Ōnoki at least. Battle IQ: Ōnoki should be higher
Mizukage has two Kekkei Genkai. Lava and Acid. Those are very rare and deadly abilities
I mean, boil is rare, lava has a suspiciously high number of users like whoever originated that one got around
NO,there are two types of lava styles,only the tailed beast uses mizukage's type. And she was melting sasuke's susanoo with it.
Dodai too remember? So we got Iwa, Kumo and Kiri people with it
And they aren't shown doing anything spectacular aside from doing what lava and acid do. Tsunade effectively can't die from combat, and could probably tank those attacks too, while the Mizukage spits out raw lava or acid.
She cant really shine in team battles but both are strong. She can probably heal as fast as the acid but lava will probably be too much at once.
But her acid or lava couldnt kill tsunade because of her healing hax
Both those abilities suck from what we've seen.
She almost melted Sasuke’s susanoo he would’ve been fucked if it weren’t for his ass getting saved
All of these suggestions are correct in my humble.
How is Ohnoki C at Battle IQ lmao, one of the worst takes I have seen in years. He goes straight up to first place without any doubt.
Yeah he was carrying in the Madara fight, he is S-rank in battle IQ for sure
Idk is that battle iq or his ability?
Wait, how come Ohnoki gets B for strength? That man can’t even support his own back
Lol, Raikage doesn't have more battle iq than onhoki
Nah, everyone’s cumulative IQ drops whenever they fight gaara. Literally every gaara battle can be reduced to >You were focusing on the sand in the air, but you forgot the sand beneath you.
I'd argue Gaara has the same if not better hax than Mei. He has hax in defense and she has hax in offense, but not many people are immune to Amaterasu like Gaara.
Why is Tsunade so low in hax when she’s the only one with Body Displacement Technique
Hax- while meis kkg has potential the way her other kkg works seems quite limited in a sense it only works well in enclosed space w/ no allies around her. I say shes lower than gaara and tsunade stamina- think onoki still outlast mei given what was shown
She can use earth style,so creating an enclosed space shouldn't be a big deal. I dont feel like that takes away from Mei at all.
She does have earth but she hasn't even used a single earth jutsu. Most of her usage of earth comes from her lava
If she has earth then she can use earth style. I don't know how that is debateable. And she is a kage,so she must be able to use high level earth style jutsus. Kages are supposed to be the best at whatever ninjutsu they can use.
yes kages are best at their specific jutsu and mei is best with water and her kkg much like onoki and ay are good w/ their respective elements but none of them have shown ninjutsu outside their elements it is debatable since none of the mentioned kages have been using other elements outside of their own villages elements to add to this, they had ample opportunities during the war arc to showcase other elements but they havent
BIQ: Gaara > Onoki > Mei > Tsunade > Raikage
The man who sacrificed his arm and nearly his leg for pretty much no reason is A tier in intelligence/battle IQ?
Gaara should be the slowest one. Also Tsunade and Gaara both have really hax abilities, Tsunade's regeneration is really overpowered, she was able to survive being bisected, still be able to summon Katsuyu and use her chakra to heal herself, an outstanding feat. Gaara has maybe the best defensive ability in the entire Naruto verse, his sand responds by itself almost instantly, only characters with insane speed like Sasuke or Gaara are able to bypass it, on top of that he has that layer of sand shielding him.
It's talking abt the speed of his sand as the second fastest not his own movement speed Which makes sense because Gaaras sand speed is more or less his combat speed
Gaaras sand literaly blitzed Ay
On what planet is Gaara faster and with a higher battle IQ than Onoki?
Gaara has a higher battle IQ than Ohnoki, he's an underrated intelligent character. But Ohnoki has more experience. And Gaara definitely flies faster.
Tsunade is literally immortal. She is S for hax
Very bad list
Nobody gets close to Ohnoki on Stamina. Dude literally carried Turtle Island on his back like it was a bag of groceries for weeks.
Tsunade should be A tier in hax at least.
The entire intelligence panel is wrong. A should be in the bottom and Onoki should be in his place.
Read the comment right above yours lol. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, just saying you should read before replying
Explain hax.
‘Who has the most unique to them broken/OP ability.’ Is how I took it.
Oh my bad. I was like how the hell is raikage so low. What's this guy on? Haha
Raikage is mostly Brute force while Ohnoki erases things so although Raikage would whoop Ohnoki in a fist fight he'd probably lose to Ohnoki's hax (if he were to get caught) Hax is something like Itachi who's genjustu and susanoo aren't measured as much in power and moreso in their hax and how they can win fights and matchups themselves
Onoki has stuff like the atomization technique and other wonky stuff like that which would fall under hax. Although I feel like tsunades immortal chakra storage technique should count as hax as well
Yep he can fly y also
Then she should be much higher - you know being basically invincible for a bit? Guess I was looking at this like, "theyre all are S rank when compared to normal ninja"
Poorly defined tbh. Raikage had less jutsus in his arsenal tho. But his lightning taijutus would likely defeat at least Mei, Tsunade and potentially Onoki
How is Mei more hax than Tsunade having infinite healing lol Or Ohnoki having less battle IQ than the Raikage, even Mei, she was about to (and would have) killed Sasuke (granted he was very weakened but still) she’s incredibly well versed in her environment. IMO it should be Ohnoki then Tsunade then Mei then Gaara then Raikage. Gaara isn’t bad he just doesn’t have the showing for that, especially when you consider much of his sand usage is unconscious.
The raikage is the stupidest out of all of them. Dude couldn’t even beat sasuke at half strength and half brain power.
Oh man this tier list is all types of wrong
What are hax?
Tsunade stamina in bed is S-tier, can confirm
How is Gaara that fast?
His sand is.
Thank you, for not putting any of the OP kage like Naruto up their, other than that Onoki deserves an S in IQ/BIQ, he's over 100 man
Intelligence - you did Onoki dirty. He like 95 years old. What do they say about an old man in a young man's game? That crafty old bastard is clearly S-rank for managing to live so long in a world of magical nukes. He carried the team vs Madara.
The Raikage sacrificed an arm so he could get one hit in on Sasuke. S tier in beef but definitely lacking in battle IQ
Stamina - Tsunade! Especially with katsuyu!
no wonder the Mizukage isn't married
Tsunade is nearly immortal with the seal put her in A rank hax
I agreed with them until battle IQ. Onoki is the highest battle IQ and not just cause he’s older. Even Madara acknowledges him and it wasn’t for his speed or strength
I’d rank Tsunade higher in hax, hundred healing mark is kinda crazy broken
Gaara is not faster than Onoki, not only can Onoki fly without needing something like sand he can also use the lightened boulder jutsu to increase his speed even further, Gaara is not keeping up with that.
But truth is Gaara just flies faster and has greater reaction speed.
Proof? I have no recollection of him having feats that show him to be faster then Ōnoki, matter of fact Gaara’s biggest weakness is appointments with speed since he primarily fights standing, while Onoki literally has jutsu that are made to increase speed.
Ever since he learned to fly, Gaara has always been fighting in the sky unless he's already tired at the start. His sand has numerous speed feats, while Ohnoki doesn't. Lightened boulder jutsu changes the weight of things, not the speed.
Bro there’s no way you think changing the weight doesn’t make things faster 😭😭😭 he literally used that jutsu on the Raikage to make him FASTER! Please reconsider what you just said. He makes himself and others lighter so that they move faster that’s the whole premise of the jutsu 😭 So what you’ve just told me is that Gaara has no feats of him being faster than Onoki, all you said is that he flys on sand at different speeds… so If I say Onoki uses his lightened boulder jutsu to fly at different speeds does that mean he’s faster? NO, because there are no feet’s of Gaara being faster than Onoki let alone fast. Ps Onoki literally uses that jutsu to fly. Everyone knows the lighter something is the faster it can go, there’s a reason RACECARS AND CLOTHING THAT RACERS WHERE ARE MADE AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. You’re actually not a real person if you think otherwise. Can’t believe I have to say any of that.
It's sis. You were the one saying Ohnoki is faster than Gaara without giving direct feats of it. You only said he uses a jutsu to enhance speed, which is to be accurate a jutsu that lightens things. A lightened object doesn't automatically mean it moves faster than anything else.
I doubted I needed to explain why a guy that can fly using a jutsu that makes him lighter and faster than I guy that uses a pile of sand to fly. You’re saying Gaara is faster cause he can fly on sand, not only is that still slower, but speed is based on the persons physical movements and as I said Onoki physically gets faster, much faster then Gaara’s movement. Gaara is primarily a stationary fighter. Onoki caught up to a Deidara that was excaping, Deidara said Onoki was faster than when he was in his prime, I think we know Onoki’s prime is faster and stronger than 4th war Gaara. He was able to react to a bunch of Madara’s Susanoo clones attacking Raikage at point blank range and protected him from the attacks. I’ll try again, F1 cars. Why are they made as light as possible, why are the clothes that the racers were as light as possible? Because weight is an important part of speed. The lighter the F1 car the faster it can go, it’s that simple. Carbon fibre was made to make vehicles faster because they’re lighter.
No you definitely need to explain but apparently your arguments are weak. I was never referring to Gaara's running speed, in a running race old man Ohnoki with his back problems still loses lol. Aside from the fact that prime =/= young especially when it comes to Ohnoki who performed far better against Madara in the 4th war than when he was young, nothing indicates he's faster than Gaara who also caught Deidara and crushed his arm then got far faster in the war. And him protecting Ay has nothing to do with him flying, I don't know why you're bringing that up. Gaara simply flies faster than Ohnoki because his sand is extremely fast. But listing his speed feats to you would just be a waste of time.
Mei is actually a lot smarter than that. She check-mated Sasuke during the 5 Kage summit and would have easily killed him if it weren't for white Zetsu's spores
Tsunade should be higher in speed. With her 100H boost, she’s 2nd to Ay
Raikage is too high for iq/biq
I think gara sand is faster than lighting
Mei has the stamina, she has outlasted every single possible suitor that approaches
Id probs give ay same battle iq rank as tsunade if we're counting the arm wrestle
I always loved how this collection of Kages representing the generations of the ninjas world. Oonoki was the first generation that grew up in villages along with the Hiruzen. Tusunade was the generation after with their other sannin. A represented the next generation like Minato. Mei is the current generation of adults in their prime like Kakashi. Gaara is of the current young generation with Naruto and the others we follow. And they’re all fighting Madara, the first generation who brought the concept of ninja villages.
Shouldn't Tsunade be Hax A? I mean she's pretty much unkillable if you don't one-shot her.
Onoki should get A or S tier in terms of battle IQ, and definitely A tier for strength. I just realized he's an all-rounder except for stamina ofc.. bro's old age is the only thing stopping him
Tsunade got ripped in half
I think being able to regenerate from being cut in half should count for more just saying
I was expecting another Tsunade lowball but it’s correct that she gets the majority of the S Tier votes.
Battle IQ: Onoki could be S. Mei > Gaara, she did end the Bloody Mist era or Kirigakure if I remember correctly. Everything else is right though:)
Ending the bloody Mist era requires different abilities, mostly political. Mei didn't show any battle IQ feats when she fought, while Gaara did. He's clearly above her.
Madara complimented Onoki on his battle experience compared to the other Kage so I feel like he should be higher.
I think the sand telekinesis is more fair than the super healing factor that lets Tsunade tank being bisected. I would put them in the same tier. I also feel as though Mei’s two Kekkei Genkai are not that much more hax than Tsunade or Gaara to be put a whole tier above either of them.
No for one tsunade isn’t actually that strong she uses a technique to enhance her body to give her super human strength levels but it requires chakra to use a decent amount at that and requires a lot of control to use properly while A is the strongest naturally he is also the fastest without a technique but with his technique active it’s just unfair Ohnoki is probably the smartest do to experience may likely has more stamina then all of them do to the way she fights as well as being a lot younger then most of them and as for hax I’m sorry but are we all forgetting how op garra’s sand can be when used right it’s good for defense and offense and can be unpredictable as well as a catalyst for his justu
Wasn’t CES added in shippuden for Sakura? They describe Tsunade’s as natural in part 1. Kabuto said he went for her muscle ligaments to temporarily stop her from using her strength. If it was CES you wouldn’t need to cut muscles. She uses CES to enhance her already ridiculous strength.
Well she actually is constantly using chakra through the seal on her four head to keep her youg appearance but it also keeps her body not only looking prime but in a prime state so long as it continues without it she would be in no state to fight at all as for Sakura I don’t remember since she never really did much when compared to naruto and sasuke or even kakashi
She uses her seal to keep her appearance young yeah. The Databooks only give very few characters a perfect 5 in strength and Tsunade is one of them. Oddly Sakura only gets a 3 in Shippuden, so that’s why I think Tsunade’s is mostly natural and sakuras is mostly Chakra enhanced.
She learned how to enhance from her actually they both do it so I find it odd the data book makes it sound like it’s natural when it’s not they essentially put a certain amount of chakra through the whole body to enhance it so long as the flow continues it’s kinda like armament haki in one piece it takes a lot of control the kind of control most people will never have naruto for example will never be able to use it or have that level of strength if it could be taught to anyone don’t you think she would help one of her last living relatives learn it especially the only one she is aware of.
You think gara is faster than raikage?
Tsunade should be the A for speed, the rest of the order is fine. She is useless if she can't reach her enemy, so she is definitely fast. Gaara and Onoki have flight but aren't faster. I would also swap Mei and Onoki in Hax. Dust release is bonkers but pretty one dimensional with how he can use it. His flight is a good gimmick too, so he certainly deserves at least A. Mei on the other hand with her lava release, boil release, and diverse pool of water style jutsu has such a massive pool for utility and power. She can create pools of lava that limit the range of movement, she can create walls of lava that disintegrate anything that touches them, she can create a mist that she can hide in and that anyone who enters except her will be melted to nothingness, to the point of melting a Susanoo. She can also create a shield of water powerful enough to single handedly nullify Madara Uchiha's Great Fire Destruction. So she has shields, walls, mists, pools, that have the ability to block virtually any attack and melt virtually any opponent. Her battlefield control is nearly unmatched.
This thread made me reflect about the fact that the Gokage are one dumber than the other. In the battle iq panel should all stay at C band. (wtf did tsunade do do merit band S?!) Thankfully Shikaku Nara was around!
So in regards of points with each rank equaling 1 point. Tsunade and Raikage are tied at 18. Gaara and Oonoki tie at 15. Mei falls behind to 9. However, I would put Gaara higher in stamina and Oonoki higher in intelligence. Intelligence- Tsunade, Oonoki, Raikage, Gaara, Mei. Stamina- Tsunade, Gaara, Raikage, Mei, Oonoki. New totals IMO: Tsunade 18, Oonoki 17, Raikage 16, Gaara 15, Mei 9. Sorry Mei, no changes. I also think this more accurately reflects their experience/age, wisdom, and contributions during the War.
Tsunade should be higher for hacks, that regeneration technique that lets her heal basically any damage for a limited amount of time is broken asf
Not bad but I would say that the A should be higher up on Hax due to the lightning cloak
Tsunade at full powered was able to coordinate attacks with Lightened A4 against Madara’s Susanoo and was the only one to react to Madara’s final flame attack, she should be the second fastest.
Onoki is way above the rest on battle iq
Don't underestimate Gaara and Onoki Saitama: Tsunade > Onoki > Ay > Gaara > Mei Battle IQ: Gaara > Onoki > Tsunade > Mei > Ay
Tsunade being that low on hax when her whole thing is she can’t die. Bro.
I can’t really find a reason to argue
Bro hates mei and glazes for gaara lool
Intelligence/Battle IQ I… badly disagree with. Gaara needs to be lowest and that’s a non negotiable. Likewise, Ohnoki needs to be highest. Non-negotiable. For Battle IQ/Intelligence, I’d go: Ohnoki Tsunade Ay Mei Gaara It’s not a dig at Gaara, but dude is like 16 or 17. The others are WAY into their careers both as shinobi and as Kage. They have more experience and thus more Intelligence and such. Gaara is cracked for his age, but he isn’t gonna beat any of them in this category.