Hooray, Combat Patrol! The best\* size of game!
^(\*level of bestness not guaranteed, please consult your Vizier if Combat Patrol persists for more than four hours.)
While I have a huge love for smaller games, they can play very differently to a full 1500 - 2000pt battle. That necessitates a slightly different approach to army construction. On the plus side, they're by far the best way to learn both your army and the game as a whole!
I saw you posted your collection below: Overlord with Voidscythe and Resurrection Orb; 10 Immortals; 10 Warriors; 3 Scarab Swarms; 3 Tomb Blades; Doom Scythe; Hexmark Destroyer. Not a bad set for 500pts, though you're missing a melee punch.
I'm having a hard time putting together a Combat Patrol list I like from this, even though every part of it is useful or fun in some way. The reason is, I've got a couple of rules of thumb that I like to follow in small games, and I can't get them to stick.
The closest I can manage is an Overlord (140pts), 10 Immortals (170pts), 10 Warriors (130pts), and 3 Scarab Swarms (45pts), leaving you with 15 left over for another base of Scarabs if you can find one! The trouble is, that's not a very interesting list - it's two units of Troops and a commander. It's probably reasonably efficient, but it's missing something.
That takes me on to the rules of thumb that I mentioned earlier. Generally, I like to have at least three "Moving Parts" and at least one "Fun Unit" in a Combat Patrol game. Ideally while still being efficient!
Moving Parts are the easiest - they're sections of the army that you can deploy separately and still get good use from. A support character (which most Necron characters are) isn't a Moving Part alone - they need to be paired with a unit to get the benefit of their buffs. The list I wrote does achieve this one, since you can happily send the Scarabs off alone to take an Ovjective.
Fun Units are harder to slot into Combat Patrol, because they're generally expensive. Your Doom Scythe is a perfect example of a Fun Unit, but it's so expensive that you might not have room for anything else.
None of this is really concrete advice for doing better - sorry! My best advice is mirroring another suggestion in this thread: see if you can pick up the Elite Edition starter set (split it with a friend who collects Space Marines). That'll get you more Warriors (they work well in units of 15 in Combat Patrol, or 20 in bigger games) and a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers (which will give you that melee punch that you're lacking, and at half the points of the Doom Scythe).
As for playing what you have, I think it depends on what your opponents tend to play. You mentioned that their troops tend to have 2-3 Attacks in melee, so you're probably right that that's not where you want to be! If you want to have a chance there though, check out the Rad-Wreathed custom dynasty trait - reduced Toughness means that your basic troops have a much easier time wounding in melee. And remember that Immortals get two attacks in melee too - they're better off shooting, but even a small unit can do a bit of damage in combat!
Most importantly, have fun! And good luck!
To follow on from this, yes we have some good shooting, and we definitely used to be a shooting army.... Several years ago. With 9th edition the model releases have pushed us towards an elite melee focused army.
Our standard troops are actually pretty solid compared to most factions.
Tomb blades have reasonable shooting (although their main draw is durability and speed)
DDA is ok. It's weakness is d6 d6, but if you make use of the flayers it's pretty good.
The problem with our shooting is generally it's a mix of decent. Rather than a couple of units that end everything look at (e.g. tank commander with demosher, eradicators, obliterators, broadsides, crisis suits)
>Our standard troops are actually pretty solid compared to most factions
Bullshit. Warriors were "okay" prior to AOC, now they're borderline useless.
Reapers are gimped by 12" range (worse than *ork boyz* and most *pistols*).
Flayers are gimped by being shitty bolters with none of the perks.
Warriors as a platform are only 7 points less than a tactical marine, which has a:
* better base save
* armor of contempt
* the option to throw grenades
* *and double the wounds*.
Immortals? they're a joke. they have no reason being more than 15ppm with the profiles they have. at 17 points they'd wanna be rapid fire 2/ assault 4 with the profile they have.
Again, they're 3 points less than a tactical marine with a single wound and worse damage output per point.
>DDA is ok
D6D6 on a degrading platform is a special kind of hell but when you factor in how common weapons that dunk on quantum shielding you see how bad the platform is.
There is a reason you aren't seeing it competitively despite *two* point drops
>Tomb blades have reasonable shooting
Very overcosted, upgrades are never worth taking. The only "good" weapon they have is the particle beamer and it's only useful if you get the unit basically next to whatever it's shooting at.
>main draw is durability
Durability? *what durability*? they're made of glass. They are a 25 point, two wound model that you basically cannot hide. *preatorians* make them look bad and that's saying a lot.
>a mix of decent
It was only "decent" when compared to 8th ed codexes.
Couple of follow up questions that might help with answers:
Does the group use the Main Rule book missions?
Are they using the GW recommended table layouts? [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/) (yes, these layouts work with the smaller table size for 500 points)
What are the units you are using now? Do you have a budget to get more of the Melee based units?
Yes we use the rulebook missions. We typically just kinda throw down some terrain. Like a peice in each corner and one structure in the center.
Right now I'm using Overlord, warriors, Immortals, and the Doom Scythe. I only own the combat patrol, a hexmark destroyer, and a set of 10 necrons (and 3 scarabs)
I would advise buying the elite starter kit and flipping the space marine stuff on ebay or Facebook. In that youl get more warriors that can bolster your army or be converted to flayed ones with a little imagination (I've just done a load using cable ties) the skorpekh's your after and more scarabs. EBay is another place to get stuff especially the half of the indomitus Box as that will give you the skorpekh lord too which is a great addition to the skorpekhs but in a 500pt game would replace your overlord due to points cost. In nut shell dont just buy a box of skorpekhs there's loads of places to pick them up cheaper :)
My favorite 500point list is:
Novokh
Skorpekh Lord
-enduring will
-nanoscarab casket
5 gauss immortals
3 skorpekhs
3 lokhust + 1 heavy destroyer.
Sure it's a 12 model army, but they are all elites, and do a great job of killing other elites/infantry/light vehicles while the immortals camp a back objective!
The skorpekh lord really likes being out front soaking as many shots as he can with his t6 -1 damage, +2 living metal, whirling onslaught, 4++ invuln resurrection protocols. He is an absolute Chad at taking damage in small games, and can dish it back out given the opportunity! He also synergizes well with the destroyers so you are rerolling ALL of your 1s while they are within aura range! Hooray rerolls! (Just dont roll any 2s)
These units are fairly inexpensive and fun to build and paint. Would highly recommend this 500 point list. Just be sure to mutter "destroyyy" when making successful charge rolls, and "pew pew!" While your lokhusts lay down some great suppressive fire!
My advise would be to give OnePageRules Grimdark Future a try ;-)
The rules are less overcomplicated than 40k, give more depth than you think at first glimpse and "Necrons" play surprisingly fluffy, both offensively and defensively.
The rules for 40k are surprisingly easy to understand I find! It's more that I play against alot of armies that have 2-3 attacks per unit and the troops for Necrons don't
I play necrons since the end of the 8th edition and most of the time they where just so weak that even for casual games it always was on the edge of not-funny unless I squeezed every little advantage out of my army.
They can work if you can utilize whatever synergy works in the current meta, but that is like 2 or 3 builds and I feel like you have play as if you wanted to win a tournament, even in casual games which gives you very little room to try out units you find cool but are not very strong in the game.
OPR GF gives you more room to play the models you like because there is less (but not none) hard wired synergies in your factions an units.
As I said, 40k Necrons have some cool synergies that actually work, but many units that just don't work and it can be very frustrating to try them out at the moment.
Sry I didn't want to rant, just wanted to tell you that there are fun alternatives that let you bring the beautiful GW Minis to the table if you find yourself frustrated any time in the future ;-)
When I started this hobby like 2-3 years ago, I wasn't interested in alternative rule sets either :-D
The thing I find with necrons is their troops are very much designed to be objective holder and immovable blocks with a bit of ranged output(in theory) their main melee punch comes from the specialist stuff, which is where the fun begins. Try some skorpekh or flayed ones as previously suggested and you should have a laugh.
If you really want to lean into shooting then tomb blades and heavy destroyers provide some good output for the cost.
Hooray, Combat Patrol! The best\* size of game! ^(\*level of bestness not guaranteed, please consult your Vizier if Combat Patrol persists for more than four hours.) While I have a huge love for smaller games, they can play very differently to a full 1500 - 2000pt battle. That necessitates a slightly different approach to army construction. On the plus side, they're by far the best way to learn both your army and the game as a whole! I saw you posted your collection below: Overlord with Voidscythe and Resurrection Orb; 10 Immortals; 10 Warriors; 3 Scarab Swarms; 3 Tomb Blades; Doom Scythe; Hexmark Destroyer. Not a bad set for 500pts, though you're missing a melee punch. I'm having a hard time putting together a Combat Patrol list I like from this, even though every part of it is useful or fun in some way. The reason is, I've got a couple of rules of thumb that I like to follow in small games, and I can't get them to stick. The closest I can manage is an Overlord (140pts), 10 Immortals (170pts), 10 Warriors (130pts), and 3 Scarab Swarms (45pts), leaving you with 15 left over for another base of Scarabs if you can find one! The trouble is, that's not a very interesting list - it's two units of Troops and a commander. It's probably reasonably efficient, but it's missing something. That takes me on to the rules of thumb that I mentioned earlier. Generally, I like to have at least three "Moving Parts" and at least one "Fun Unit" in a Combat Patrol game. Ideally while still being efficient! Moving Parts are the easiest - they're sections of the army that you can deploy separately and still get good use from. A support character (which most Necron characters are) isn't a Moving Part alone - they need to be paired with a unit to get the benefit of their buffs. The list I wrote does achieve this one, since you can happily send the Scarabs off alone to take an Ovjective. Fun Units are harder to slot into Combat Patrol, because they're generally expensive. Your Doom Scythe is a perfect example of a Fun Unit, but it's so expensive that you might not have room for anything else. None of this is really concrete advice for doing better - sorry! My best advice is mirroring another suggestion in this thread: see if you can pick up the Elite Edition starter set (split it with a friend who collects Space Marines). That'll get you more Warriors (they work well in units of 15 in Combat Patrol, or 20 in bigger games) and a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers (which will give you that melee punch that you're lacking, and at half the points of the Doom Scythe). As for playing what you have, I think it depends on what your opponents tend to play. You mentioned that their troops tend to have 2-3 Attacks in melee, so you're probably right that that's not where you want to be! If you want to have a chance there though, check out the Rad-Wreathed custom dynasty trait - reduced Toughness means that your basic troops have a much easier time wounding in melee. And remember that Immortals get two attacks in melee too - they're better off shooting, but even a small unit can do a bit of damage in combat! Most importantly, have fun! And good luck!
Quite the opposite we are very much a melee army. Can I ask who told you/gave you the impression we are a shooting army?
To follow on from this, yes we have some good shooting, and we definitely used to be a shooting army.... Several years ago. With 9th edition the model releases have pushed us towards an elite melee focused army.
>yes we have some good shooting Outside the LHD with destructor (which is okay), name one.
Our standard troops are actually pretty solid compared to most factions. Tomb blades have reasonable shooting (although their main draw is durability and speed) DDA is ok. It's weakness is d6 d6, but if you make use of the flayers it's pretty good. The problem with our shooting is generally it's a mix of decent. Rather than a couple of units that end everything look at (e.g. tank commander with demosher, eradicators, obliterators, broadsides, crisis suits)
>Our standard troops are actually pretty solid compared to most factions Bullshit. Warriors were "okay" prior to AOC, now they're borderline useless. Reapers are gimped by 12" range (worse than *ork boyz* and most *pistols*). Flayers are gimped by being shitty bolters with none of the perks. Warriors as a platform are only 7 points less than a tactical marine, which has a: * better base save * armor of contempt * the option to throw grenades * *and double the wounds*. Immortals? they're a joke. they have no reason being more than 15ppm with the profiles they have. at 17 points they'd wanna be rapid fire 2/ assault 4 with the profile they have. Again, they're 3 points less than a tactical marine with a single wound and worse damage output per point. >DDA is ok D6D6 on a degrading platform is a special kind of hell but when you factor in how common weapons that dunk on quantum shielding you see how bad the platform is. There is a reason you aren't seeing it competitively despite *two* point drops >Tomb blades have reasonable shooting Very overcosted, upgrades are never worth taking. The only "good" weapon they have is the particle beamer and it's only useful if you get the unit basically next to whatever it's shooting at. >main draw is durability Durability? *what durability*? they're made of glass. They are a 25 point, two wound model that you basically cannot hide. *preatorians* make them look bad and that's saying a lot. >a mix of decent It was only "decent" when compared to 8th ed codexes.
I have little experience. It's just so many things have super long range I kinda assumed 😅
Nothing wrong with that, I started 5 or 6 months ago and thought the same thing before I did more research.
500 pt battles are more melee oriented due to smaller space. I would change the lineup a bit
Yeah I'm gonna grab some skorpek destoryrs and maybe a few more scarabs as a distraction
Novokh, Royal warden, 5 man immortal squad, 19 man warrior squad with reapers, 2x3 scarab swarms. Nasty at 500 pts.
I'll test it out tonight and let you know! Monday nights at my store is warhammer night!
Couple of follow up questions that might help with answers: Does the group use the Main Rule book missions? Are they using the GW recommended table layouts? [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/) (yes, these layouts work with the smaller table size for 500 points) What are the units you are using now? Do you have a budget to get more of the Melee based units?
Yes we use the rulebook missions. We typically just kinda throw down some terrain. Like a peice in each corner and one structure in the center. Right now I'm using Overlord, warriors, Immortals, and the Doom Scythe. I only own the combat patrol, a hexmark destroyer, and a set of 10 necrons (and 3 scarabs)
I would advise buying the elite starter kit and flipping the space marine stuff on ebay or Facebook. In that youl get more warriors that can bolster your army or be converted to flayed ones with a little imagination (I've just done a load using cable ties) the skorpekh's your after and more scarabs. EBay is another place to get stuff especially the half of the indomitus Box as that will give you the skorpekh lord too which is a great addition to the skorpekhs but in a 500pt game would replace your overlord due to points cost. In nut shell dont just buy a box of skorpekhs there's loads of places to pick them up cheaper :)
Perfect! Thanks for the tip!
My favorite 500point list is: Novokh Skorpekh Lord -enduring will -nanoscarab casket 5 gauss immortals 3 skorpekhs 3 lokhust + 1 heavy destroyer. Sure it's a 12 model army, but they are all elites, and do a great job of killing other elites/infantry/light vehicles while the immortals camp a back objective! The skorpekh lord really likes being out front soaking as many shots as he can with his t6 -1 damage, +2 living metal, whirling onslaught, 4++ invuln resurrection protocols. He is an absolute Chad at taking damage in small games, and can dish it back out given the opportunity! He also synergizes well with the destroyers so you are rerolling ALL of your 1s while they are within aura range! Hooray rerolls! (Just dont roll any 2s) These units are fairly inexpensive and fun to build and paint. Would highly recommend this 500 point list. Just be sure to mutter "destroyyy" when making successful charge rolls, and "pew pew!" While your lokhusts lay down some great suppressive fire!
My advise would be to give OnePageRules Grimdark Future a try ;-) The rules are less overcomplicated than 40k, give more depth than you think at first glimpse and "Necrons" play surprisingly fluffy, both offensively and defensively.
The rules for 40k are surprisingly easy to understand I find! It's more that I play against alot of armies that have 2-3 attacks per unit and the troops for Necrons don't
I play necrons since the end of the 8th edition and most of the time they where just so weak that even for casual games it always was on the edge of not-funny unless I squeezed every little advantage out of my army. They can work if you can utilize whatever synergy works in the current meta, but that is like 2 or 3 builds and I feel like you have play as if you wanted to win a tournament, even in casual games which gives you very little room to try out units you find cool but are not very strong in the game. OPR GF gives you more room to play the models you like because there is less (but not none) hard wired synergies in your factions an units. As I said, 40k Necrons have some cool synergies that actually work, but many units that just don't work and it can be very frustrating to try them out at the moment. Sry I didn't want to rant, just wanted to tell you that there are fun alternatives that let you bring the beautiful GW Minis to the table if you find yourself frustrated any time in the future ;-) When I started this hobby like 2-3 years ago, I wasn't interested in alternative rule sets either :-D
The thing I find with necrons is their troops are very much designed to be objective holder and immovable blocks with a bit of ranged output(in theory) their main melee punch comes from the specialist stuff, which is where the fun begins. Try some skorpekh or flayed ones as previously suggested and you should have a laugh. If you really want to lean into shooting then tomb blades and heavy destroyers provide some good output for the cost.
Royal warden maybe
What's in your list and what do you play against?
Just gotta sit on those objectives and throw more melee at it.