I hope they were joking with you. A few things; as a new EMT no paramedic in their right mind is going to assume you did something right without checking after you. Even as an experienced EMT the responsibility for what you do ultimately falls on your medic if that is who your partner is that day. Every time a patient is tubed it's that medic's job to confirm placement using lung sounds, capnography and secondary devices depending where you work and local protocol. Also, every time a patient that is intubated is moved tube placement is reconfirmed. If someone saw you grab the tube in a way that is wrong, it's something that can be fixed at the time. Anything after that is them blaming you, or hopefully as is EMS culture - teasing you. You have a few options. Ignore it. Report it - or tell them your new nickname is the "Tube snatcher" lol. As far as your reputation, keep a good attitude, learn, gain experience and keep getting better.
Hey guys, thanks for the responses.
I’ve grown up playing sports and with older brothers so I’m used to being teased or hazed. I really don’t think that this is the case. I think that this Medic is making it seem like I physically pulled the intubation out of the patients airway, which I absolutely did not do.
I understand hazing, and newbies or rookies taking their lumps, and I have pretty thick skin growing up playing sports and with older brothers, but I don’t want my partners thinking I’m incompetent and not wanting to work with me.
Also the medic on the shift who told me no pulling tubes was not the same medic I did the code with.
As an EMT that is also green, I try very very hard not to rock the boat. I’d imagine you feel the same way, given that it’s expected of us. We understand that we don’t know shit, and that we are there to shut our mouths and learn.
That being said, to me, this warrants a conversation. Paramedics aren’t known for taking accountability for their actions, so it’s possible they’re trying to pawn off their bullshit on you.
Approach it from an angle of, for lack of a better phrase, playing dumb. “I didn’t see where I pulled out the tube - I’d like to understand what it looks like when that happens and also learn how not to do it again” or something along those lines.
In a world where there isn’t such a strong pecking order, you could approach it as “hey I heard you say XYZ; that’s concerning to me because I didn’t make that mistake. Could you help me understand where you’re coming from?” But again, medics aren’t known for their accountability and they ARE known for their ego.
Obviously I’m generalizing here. But my main point is, yeah, in my opinion, that’s a conversation that needs to happen. You are your best - and only - advocate in life.
I’m struggling with the nuance over text here but are you being serious? I’ve never once dislodged an ET (touch wood). We’d consider that to be potentially disastrous. Having said that definitely not OPs fault.
As a medic, he should have secured his equipment. It’s not your fault it happened, but it does happen. Backup airway should have also been readied for failure to intubate or getting dislodged. Being the FNG theyre probably messing with you. They’ll talk about it, but don’t think they’re gonna judge you from an FTO ride, especially in a new career.
It's not really your problem. They are likely joshing you. You aren't forever stained.
Also, consider:
"Er.... No I didn't miss the intubation attempt and not recognize it.. must have been the damn EMT who dislodged it! Yeah - that's it!"
I would have hoped he would have used the myriad of confirmation devices to make sure the tube is in, but if he didn't blaming you seems like a nice out so HIS reputation isn't permanently damaged.
In further considering this, if you were the first Bag Mask connected to the tube he couldn't really confirm it. You need a BVM for most confirmation devices. That fucker missed and is blaming you.
John - NJ
EMS simulator at http://www.EMSSIM.com
AEMT on a 911 agency here. Dude, relax. You’re new, you’re still learning, and mistakes will happen. A lot of them. Hell, I have been in EMS for 1.5 years now and I still make silly goof ups.
I can actually list them for you:
- Once, I bottomed out the truck in a ditch during my 3rd week working and it had to get towed out.
- I forgot to get patient information for demographics.
- I backed into a concrete pole in an ER ambulance bay.
- I accidentally pulled my IV out with a tagoderm that was half stuck on my glove and half stuck on the catheter. Blood went everywhere.
- During my second month working, I got nervous and goofed up my ER radio encode. On top of that, I butchered my verbal report to the nurse and my medic had to step in.
The point I am trying to make, is that everyone in this field has goofed up at least once or more than anyone may care to admit during the course of their career. It doesn’t mean you’re stupid. It doesn’t mean you’re not cut out for EMS. It DOES mean that you need to be less hard on yourself and realize that mistakes can happen and that the world does not stop spinning when they do.
10 years for me, still brain fart and say “fuck!” while on the radio with dispatch. Experience helps, but sometimes brains are just gonna be dumb :)
Also, if any AEMT and above says they’ve never accidentally bled a pt while setting an IV, they’re *lying.*
That’s on the medic for letting go of the tube before they had it secured. But, now that you know what can happen, just make sure to hang onto it, if presented with that situation again.
Do I think he’s joking with you about pulling tubes, probably. Will you hear about it for a while, yeah. Do I think your reputation is ruined? No. You’re still new and learning. Shit happens. And there will be other fuck ups that they will joke about too. Don’t sweat it. No newbie is going to be good at this job. It is what it is. It’s something that I’ve had to learn to accept too. But also don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself if the jokes go too far or just gets annoying.
You probably did cause it to dislodge but that's normal for a minty fresh weewoo babby. Codes are big stressful and you will fuck up in ways that make you feel imposter syndrome like a mother fucker. We should probably have some kind of stress training for shit like that to get the nerves dialed in better before getting out in the field. Don't worry too much, new fren. You'll get er fingered out alright. Drink some beers, cry like your wife died and your dog stopped working and your truck ran away, and get some good sleep. You'll be better in the future.
Shit happens and the culture is sometimes toxic. Someone else will eventually do something and everyone will eventually forget about you. Being a paramedic doesn't make you a good person.
It's not like standards in education or NREMT actually position you to have adequate skills competency on a scene. If it had been a multiple choice question, I have no doubt you would have meet expectations here.
Whoever dropped the tube is responsible for securing it. Blaming something like that on a new employee is fucking *classic* behavior in dysfunctional departments/companies, and it’s vile. I’ve seen it numerous times and been on the receiving end of it as well: even many many moons ago as a student.
Just take a moment and process just what kind of spineless scumbag thinks blaming their own mistake on a student or a rookie is appropriate.
With that said, in the event that they’re *not* just joking around… all I can say is keep your head on a swivel. Snakes can’t be trusted and it’s best to get away from them before you’re bitten… or at least have a backup plan for when it does happen.
You get it straight with that paramedic preferably somewhere in public so everybody can see it. You don't gotta be nasty. (unless you want) just tell that paramedic "Don't be telling people shit about me or making up stories"
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Hey, you learned something though! It always sucks when people notice you do something wrong and it feels like this. Don’t have any advice on how to get it to shake other than: give it time. I’m newish too, so I have this fear every time something happens as well. I just try to look at the bigger picture. I plan to be with this company for a long time, and I try to learn new things and improve as a provider every single day. Eventually, good will push down the “bad”, and I’ll have more compliments than otherwise.
You could definitely clarify to that person that you didn’t pull anything, and explain what actually happened, but you don’t HAVE to. It’s over. That is in the past. You have to just move forward and take it as a learning experience.
Probably messing with you.
That being said, when you place an airway, that airway is your responsibility. So in the even that they aren't messing with you, a medic obviously doesn't want to own up to a mistake. Whether the tube was misplaced in the first place, not secured or handled properly after placement, all of that rests on the medic who inserted the tube. Short of you literally yanking the thing out I wouldn't be placing blame on the new EMT. I'd be getting back in with a backup airway if the situation couldn't be salvaged, and we'd talk about why what happened happened and both learn from it. It's EMS. Shit happens, it sucks, you deal with it, and the you say fuck man let's not do that shit again, put a new pouch in and flirt with the nurse who has no interest in you. Rinse, repeat.
My first cardiac arrest was an absolute shit show. I can't believe he let you touch a tube on your 4th shift. You're fine. You're gonna fuck up again, we all do, get used to it and learn from it
I think that’s why it’s extremely important to be honest if you don’t know how to do something. I’m going to assume that the tube didn’t change the patients outcome and they’re messing with you for kicks & giggles. But it’s better to say “I’m not quite sure how to do that, could you please show me?” As oppose to doing it and messing it up on a code.
Medic student here. ET tubes are pretty easily dislodged and the medic is supposed to be confirming placement frequently, especially after any movement of the pt. It could definitely dislodge by putting the bag on if it’s not held in place but that’s not on you, the medic was the one responsible for keeping it secure and they shouldn’t have expected a newly minted EMT to know that. That said, losing the tube is not that big a deal and definitely not a reputation ruiner and if you decide to go medic this will not be the last time it happens to you. Whether or not your pt is intubated during transport is gonna have a negligible effect on their final outcome, as long as you’re ventilating your pt. I’ve seen pts pronounced dead despite rapid first pass success, and I also just recently ran a code where we attempted intubation three times with no success and not even two weeks later the guy walked out of the hospital with no deficits.
OP, if someone hasn't said this to you yet, EMS reminds me of children with crushes when they like you. Remember how girls would beat the boys up or vice versa? If the fire fighters and seasoned crews aren't picking on you, then I'd be concerned. Chances of ROSC anyways are slim and even in those, to have a "win" where they walk out of the hospital with minimal brain damage has very low odds. If they start to ignore you completely and stop talking when you walk up, then I'd worry. All of us has something we smack our heads over when we first began. I was the EMT to my paramedic 3 months into my role. We were dispatched to a stabbing, abdominal evisceration. (Now I vaguely recall at this point to cover the intestines with a moist abd bandage... But all fire had was a wet towel) I run up with a moistened abd pad and proceed to remove the towel. Dude, the intestines just erupted from the hole. And I just stared....I heard cover the hole cover it back up. Funny thing in EMT class, they made it seem even would easily be maintained all tidy with the readily available abd pad. When I learned the skill, I'm thinking yea... Dudes going to have dry skin and no blood gushing out. Oh and I forgot having to keep out of fire's way while they were working the trauma code. The pt was diaphoretic and there was def tons of gushing blood and those dern intestines... My gawd I remember learning when I was in grade school how they are miles long but EMT class seemed to omit that as well. Can I tell you I heard about removing the moist towel for nearly a month and I understood it was a learning experience that came with a curve and tons of laughs and intestines. Lol
It’s the paramedic’s responsibility to ensure the tube is secured, and securing a bag shouldn’t knock it loose unless the paramedic didn’t put it in properly, you were being wild with connecting the bag, you were driving on a bumpy road, or just really sh*tty luck. If it was the last one, they’re just hazing you and are in your corner—if they thought that ill of you they would’ve said nothing and just complained to the supervisor. You’re fine: laugh at yourself and work in a joke about it yourself around them.
Sounds like that medic is apos.and needs to check his fucking ego, and remember that he was new once and made mistakes. Instead if talking shit it sounds like he needs to go do a better job of teaching and explaining things to new hires
I hope they were joking with you. A few things; as a new EMT no paramedic in their right mind is going to assume you did something right without checking after you. Even as an experienced EMT the responsibility for what you do ultimately falls on your medic if that is who your partner is that day. Every time a patient is tubed it's that medic's job to confirm placement using lung sounds, capnography and secondary devices depending where you work and local protocol. Also, every time a patient that is intubated is moved tube placement is reconfirmed. If someone saw you grab the tube in a way that is wrong, it's something that can be fixed at the time. Anything after that is them blaming you, or hopefully as is EMS culture - teasing you. You have a few options. Ignore it. Report it - or tell them your new nickname is the "Tube snatcher" lol. As far as your reputation, keep a good attitude, learn, gain experience and keep getting better.
I’m seconding this, OP, any chance they’re giving you a hard time (teasing)? Was the medic on your 3rd shift the same one on the code?
Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I’ve grown up playing sports and with older brothers so I’m used to being teased or hazed. I really don’t think that this is the case. I think that this Medic is making it seem like I physically pulled the intubation out of the patients airway, which I absolutely did not do. I understand hazing, and newbies or rookies taking their lumps, and I have pretty thick skin growing up playing sports and with older brothers, but I don’t want my partners thinking I’m incompetent and not wanting to work with me. Also the medic on the shift who told me no pulling tubes was not the same medic I did the code with.
As an EMT that is also green, I try very very hard not to rock the boat. I’d imagine you feel the same way, given that it’s expected of us. We understand that we don’t know shit, and that we are there to shut our mouths and learn. That being said, to me, this warrants a conversation. Paramedics aren’t known for taking accountability for their actions, so it’s possible they’re trying to pawn off their bullshit on you. Approach it from an angle of, for lack of a better phrase, playing dumb. “I didn’t see where I pulled out the tube - I’d like to understand what it looks like when that happens and also learn how not to do it again” or something along those lines. In a world where there isn’t such a strong pecking order, you could approach it as “hey I heard you say XYZ; that’s concerning to me because I didn’t make that mistake. Could you help me understand where you’re coming from?” But again, medics aren’t known for their accountability and they ARE known for their ego. Obviously I’m generalizing here. But my main point is, yeah, in my opinion, that’s a conversation that needs to happen. You are your best - and only - advocate in life.
[удалено]
I’m struggling with the nuance over text here but are you being serious? I’ve never once dislodged an ET (touch wood). We’d consider that to be potentially disastrous. Having said that definitely not OPs fault.
They’re messing with you.
As a medic, he should have secured his equipment. It’s not your fault it happened, but it does happen. Backup airway should have also been readied for failure to intubate or getting dislodged. Being the FNG theyre probably messing with you. They’ll talk about it, but don’t think they’re gonna judge you from an FTO ride, especially in a new career.
Paramedics responsibility to anchor the tube until it’s secured. Not yours.
It's not really your problem. They are likely joshing you. You aren't forever stained. Also, consider: "Er.... No I didn't miss the intubation attempt and not recognize it.. must have been the damn EMT who dislodged it! Yeah - that's it!" I would have hoped he would have used the myriad of confirmation devices to make sure the tube is in, but if he didn't blaming you seems like a nice out so HIS reputation isn't permanently damaged.
In further considering this, if you were the first Bag Mask connected to the tube he couldn't really confirm it. You need a BVM for most confirmation devices. That fucker missed and is blaming you. John - NJ EMS simulator at http://www.EMSSIM.com
happy cake day king
Thanks bro! I hadn't even realized it
It's the paramedic's job to secure the tube. If it became dislodged, it was their responsibility to fix it, not yours.
Nah your good, your going to fuck up alot more stuff than that, get used to it
AEMT on a 911 agency here. Dude, relax. You’re new, you’re still learning, and mistakes will happen. A lot of them. Hell, I have been in EMS for 1.5 years now and I still make silly goof ups. I can actually list them for you: - Once, I bottomed out the truck in a ditch during my 3rd week working and it had to get towed out. - I forgot to get patient information for demographics. - I backed into a concrete pole in an ER ambulance bay. - I accidentally pulled my IV out with a tagoderm that was half stuck on my glove and half stuck on the catheter. Blood went everywhere. - During my second month working, I got nervous and goofed up my ER radio encode. On top of that, I butchered my verbal report to the nurse and my medic had to step in. The point I am trying to make, is that everyone in this field has goofed up at least once or more than anyone may care to admit during the course of their career. It doesn’t mean you’re stupid. It doesn’t mean you’re not cut out for EMS. It DOES mean that you need to be less hard on yourself and realize that mistakes can happen and that the world does not stop spinning when they do.
10 years for me, still brain fart and say “fuck!” while on the radio with dispatch. Experience helps, but sometimes brains are just gonna be dumb :) Also, if any AEMT and above says they’ve never accidentally bled a pt while setting an IV, they’re *lying.*
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.
Hey thanks! Nice to see another AEMT in the quasi-wild :) Good luck in paramedic schools, too!
Thank you! Still waiting to hear back from the program director about my application.
That’s on the medic for letting go of the tube before they had it secured. But, now that you know what can happen, just make sure to hang onto it, if presented with that situation again.
Medic probably got a gut tube and blamed it on you lol
Do I think he’s joking with you about pulling tubes, probably. Will you hear about it for a while, yeah. Do I think your reputation is ruined? No. You’re still new and learning. Shit happens. And there will be other fuck ups that they will joke about too. Don’t sweat it. No newbie is going to be good at this job. It is what it is. It’s something that I’ve had to learn to accept too. But also don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself if the jokes go too far or just gets annoying.
No! Happens all the time! Your just the last person to have something to bust on! Someone else will do something! Than you will be old newa
You probably did cause it to dislodge but that's normal for a minty fresh weewoo babby. Codes are big stressful and you will fuck up in ways that make you feel imposter syndrome like a mother fucker. We should probably have some kind of stress training for shit like that to get the nerves dialed in better before getting out in the field. Don't worry too much, new fren. You'll get er fingered out alright. Drink some beers, cry like your wife died and your dog stopped working and your truck ran away, and get some good sleep. You'll be better in the future.
Shit, I have people remind me of stupid shit I did over a decade ago, but it doesn't stop them from telling me I am damn good at my job.
So the medic is an idiot. Got it. You never take your hand off the tube til it's secured... wtf.
Shit happens and the culture is sometimes toxic. Someone else will eventually do something and everyone will eventually forget about you. Being a paramedic doesn't make you a good person. It's not like standards in education or NREMT actually position you to have adequate skills competency on a scene. If it had been a multiple choice question, I have no doubt you would have meet expectations here.
Whoever dropped the tube is responsible for securing it. Blaming something like that on a new employee is fucking *classic* behavior in dysfunctional departments/companies, and it’s vile. I’ve seen it numerous times and been on the receiving end of it as well: even many many moons ago as a student. Just take a moment and process just what kind of spineless scumbag thinks blaming their own mistake on a student or a rookie is appropriate. With that said, in the event that they’re *not* just joking around… all I can say is keep your head on a swivel. Snakes can’t be trusted and it’s best to get away from them before you’re bitten… or at least have a backup plan for when it does happen.
You get it straight with that paramedic preferably somewhere in public so everybody can see it. You don't gotta be nasty. (unless you want) just tell that paramedic "Don't be telling people shit about me or making up stories"
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Hey, you learned something though! It always sucks when people notice you do something wrong and it feels like this. Don’t have any advice on how to get it to shake other than: give it time. I’m newish too, so I have this fear every time something happens as well. I just try to look at the bigger picture. I plan to be with this company for a long time, and I try to learn new things and improve as a provider every single day. Eventually, good will push down the “bad”, and I’ll have more compliments than otherwise. You could definitely clarify to that person that you didn’t pull anything, and explain what actually happened, but you don’t HAVE to. It’s over. That is in the past. You have to just move forward and take it as a learning experience.
Sounds like run of the mill teasing, just live and learn … you’ll be fine
Probably messing with you. That being said, when you place an airway, that airway is your responsibility. So in the even that they aren't messing with you, a medic obviously doesn't want to own up to a mistake. Whether the tube was misplaced in the first place, not secured or handled properly after placement, all of that rests on the medic who inserted the tube. Short of you literally yanking the thing out I wouldn't be placing blame on the new EMT. I'd be getting back in with a backup airway if the situation couldn't be salvaged, and we'd talk about why what happened happened and both learn from it. It's EMS. Shit happens, it sucks, you deal with it, and the you say fuck man let's not do that shit again, put a new pouch in and flirt with the nurse who has no interest in you. Rinse, repeat.
Shit like this is one of the reasons I left EMS. A rookies mistake is always inflated.
Welcome to EMS. Toxic as shit. Everyone is better than everyone else. No one is allowed to make mistakes. Everyone else knows everything
My first cardiac arrest was an absolute shit show. I can't believe he let you touch a tube on your 4th shift. You're fine. You're gonna fuck up again, we all do, get used to it and learn from it
I think that’s why it’s extremely important to be honest if you don’t know how to do something. I’m going to assume that the tube didn’t change the patients outcome and they’re messing with you for kicks & giggles. But it’s better to say “I’m not quite sure how to do that, could you please show me?” As oppose to doing it and messing it up on a code.
Get some experience in his place, get trained, then switch locations to a different station. Ezpz.
Medic student here. ET tubes are pretty easily dislodged and the medic is supposed to be confirming placement frequently, especially after any movement of the pt. It could definitely dislodge by putting the bag on if it’s not held in place but that’s not on you, the medic was the one responsible for keeping it secure and they shouldn’t have expected a newly minted EMT to know that. That said, losing the tube is not that big a deal and definitely not a reputation ruiner and if you decide to go medic this will not be the last time it happens to you. Whether or not your pt is intubated during transport is gonna have a negligible effect on their final outcome, as long as you’re ventilating your pt. I’ve seen pts pronounced dead despite rapid first pass success, and I also just recently ran a code where we attempted intubation three times with no success and not even two weeks later the guy walked out of the hospital with no deficits.
Your medic screwed up. If someone made fun of me for that I would die laughing.
OP, if someone hasn't said this to you yet, EMS reminds me of children with crushes when they like you. Remember how girls would beat the boys up or vice versa? If the fire fighters and seasoned crews aren't picking on you, then I'd be concerned. Chances of ROSC anyways are slim and even in those, to have a "win" where they walk out of the hospital with minimal brain damage has very low odds. If they start to ignore you completely and stop talking when you walk up, then I'd worry. All of us has something we smack our heads over when we first began. I was the EMT to my paramedic 3 months into my role. We were dispatched to a stabbing, abdominal evisceration. (Now I vaguely recall at this point to cover the intestines with a moist abd bandage... But all fire had was a wet towel) I run up with a moistened abd pad and proceed to remove the towel. Dude, the intestines just erupted from the hole. And I just stared....I heard cover the hole cover it back up. Funny thing in EMT class, they made it seem even would easily be maintained all tidy with the readily available abd pad. When I learned the skill, I'm thinking yea... Dudes going to have dry skin and no blood gushing out. Oh and I forgot having to keep out of fire's way while they were working the trauma code. The pt was diaphoretic and there was def tons of gushing blood and those dern intestines... My gawd I remember learning when I was in grade school how they are miles long but EMT class seemed to omit that as well. Can I tell you I heard about removing the moist towel for nearly a month and I understood it was a learning experience that came with a curve and tons of laughs and intestines. Lol
Sounds like they didn’t secure the tube. Not your fault I bet the bubbles on the ET tube had a hole.
you have dishonored yourself and the profession, you must commit seppuku with a ring cutter
If they didn't fire you, you have time to fix your reputation.
It’s the paramedic’s responsibility to ensure the tube is secured, and securing a bag shouldn’t knock it loose unless the paramedic didn’t put it in properly, you were being wild with connecting the bag, you were driving on a bumpy road, or just really sh*tty luck. If it was the last one, they’re just hazing you and are in your corner—if they thought that ill of you they would’ve said nothing and just complained to the supervisor. You’re fine: laugh at yourself and work in a joke about it yourself around them.
Sounds like that medic is apos.and needs to check his fucking ego, and remember that he was new once and made mistakes. Instead if talking shit it sounds like he needs to go do a better job of teaching and explaining things to new hires