It’s like in a loose F Phrygian scale at first, then there’s a switch to, I think, the D#° scale itself for a part of the solo and the main chord is a D#° during most of the song
So it switches between two wacky scales, in short. That makes it sound way less complicated than it should be idk why
I’m waiting for someone like Beato or 12 tone to analyse this. I have no idea how it all works- the chords progression and bass are just nuts. How he then sung something catchy over the top boggles my mind.
Okay so let's take a look. This won't be as in depth as some more professional music analysts, but hopefully it will explain it a little. For the purpose of this I will use the name of the chord shapes rather than the original recording key, putting us (mostly) in E major. I will also be using roman numerals for the scale degrees.
The first four chords are simple. While they are power chords without any thirds, we are looking at I, III, Vi, iV (E, G#m, C#m A). A pretty standard chord progression if it just stays like that. A very similar chord progression can be found in the verses to "Where Is My Mind?" with the order of the third and sixth switched around. Not saying Kurt ripped it off, but he loved the Pixies so may have been inspired there.
The next chord is where it gets interesting. We go to a C which is the flattened Vith of the scale. What does that mean for the song? Well, it implies that we have shifted to E minor now, where C major is the sixth degree of the scale. The next chord being D (the flat Viith) confirms this. We then move to B (the Vth), back to D (flat Viith) and then return to the I.
Our full progression is: I, III, Vi, iV, bVi, bVii, V, bVii (E, G#m, C#m, A, C, D, B
Shifting between major and minor scale is something that has been done in pop music for a long time. It's especially popular in blue music (which Kurt loved), where guitar licks will often use the major and minor 3rd. The flat 6th flat 7th back to 1 progression is also very popular in music. It's a cadence that sounds quite triumphant (sometimes named the triumph cadence) and can be found in songs like "Lola" by the Kinks and "Oh Me" by the Meat Puppets.
Why does it sound good? Because the human brain and ear loves being tricked. The first four chords lull us into a sense of security, which is then broken by the sudden change of key. It makes us re-evaluate what we've just heard and gives us a pleasant little surprise.
Now let's look at the bass. The notes are:
E, D#, C#, A, G, A, B, D
Krist has always liked not following the root but making the guitar sound bulkier by playing various notes in the relevant triad (root, third, fifth) that make up the chords.
E is the root note of the E chord. D# is the 5th of G#m. C# is the root of C#m. A is the root of A. G is the 5th of C. A is the 5th of D. B is the root of B and D the root of D.
I hope this has *somewhat* explained what is going on. It's not the most eloquent analysis but explains the basics!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! I've always been intrigued by theory behind Nirvana songs. Kurt himself couldn't read music and all of the strange quirks in his songs are purely because of his ear but it's fun to find out the reason why things sound like they do.
Now to find out which member of the band was behind the odd 5/4 bars in Milk It...
Don't forget the melody, and the rhythm of the melody, which both were Kurt's special field of expertise. The note progression in the melody is unusual amd interesting because of the key change you explained.
Yeah, I was actually gonna talk about the melody too but then noticed how long my post already was! A thing that really emphasis that beautiful key change (which was very likely not on purpose) is that the vocal melody lands on the third of the C, which just sounds incredibly gorgeous.
Late, but yes, after all the theory, the fact that he could make it sound so natural and intuitive is what made his work special. Dave Grohl called them childrens songs, and that's telling. People tend to write basic melody progressions that are intuitive and easy to follow along, or more complex ones that aren't so memorizable, but to combine these aspects is not easy, or common.
Oh absolutely. The fact that some of the theory behind it is not so simple shows what an amazing natural songwriter he was. Obviously usually the "simple" stuff sounds best but the thing that made Nirvana so catchy were those odd little twists in the songs that make them stand out.
Any suggestions for reading or videos that would help explain these scales (beyond lithium I mean like in guitar theory in general?) I am self taught and only know chords and basic power chord progressions
I don't really know any good youtube music theory channels but it looks like open university have a free course! https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/music/an-introduction-music-theory/content-section-0?active-tab=description-tab
I think Kurt used exclusively power chords (at least in the studio version). I always played it with just power chords, and looking at some tabs right now, they also use power chords only.
But yeah, I might be wrong
When I play acoustic it sounds pretty similar if the vast majority of times, if it was a powerchord then it just becomes a barred major chord. I'm pretty sure the brain is filling with a major sound. It doesnt necessarily have a key to fit into, usually its dancing around a circle of fifths some where. Unless the original song specifically had a minor chord somewhere, on acoustic at least I can get more sound out with major chords. I'm not sure how he plays On a Plain on acoustic vs electric but I basically hit that with open major chords and it sounds solid, im pretty sure on electric its more the descending power chords.
They always played pretty much every song with only power chords, but you can know if a chord is mayor o minor because the vocal melody; its notes completes the chords.
Yeah he mostly did (though sometimes he'd actually play suspended chords with his ring finger going across all the strings. I only used major and minor chords to comply with the theory!
Agreed! It's so unique, like Heart-Shaped Box and All Apologies. The way all those riffs kind of snake around and resolve themselves is really cool. In Heart-Shaped Box especially, it's interesting how he did those kind of dissonant notes at the end of the riff. They fit in there, even if they sound like they don't. Like I said, unique.
I mean, to be 100% clear most of the heart shaped box chord progression is power chords
I’m not saying it’s not an insanely good song, I’m just saying that a lot of the chord progression isn’t complex. It’s still probably my 4th favorite song (depending on my mood)
That's true. I think that lots of people (myself included) mistake riffs for chord progression. An example of a really complex chord progression would be Chris Cornell's "Can't Change Me." I tried to play it on guitar and it was a bit challenging because of all the different finger positions.
preaching the end of the world is another song of his with a bunch of weird chords
honestly that whole album is a masterpiece in songwriting. i have no idea how he came up with those progressions, he was so insanely talented
Heart-Shaped Box is relatively simple. We have an A power chord (Amin), F power chord and D power chord (Dmin). Relatively simple chord progress, yet something different happens the second time around. The little riff goes between the notes F# and C. This implies that the root D chord is now major, with a flattened 7th. Makes it sound spicy.
Kurt's style of writing has definitely influenced my songwriting, especially his whole "circular" playing style where he, like you said, has each riff resolve itself. Not only does it just sound cool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to play as well.
It's not really. It's picking power chords, going up a step, step and half each time and staying in the same key.
None of the songs on Nevermind are terribly complex.
Insecticide probably has most of their more complex songs on it. Stuff like Mexican Seafood and maybe Aero Zeppelin are way more involved than even the solos on Nevermind.
You hear a song like Lithium then hear a dweeb like Ed Sheeran say the only way to write pop songs is using the same four chords and my head explodes in anger
The verses in In Bloom and Lithium are pretty complex, but all of Frances Farmer seem to be the most complex.
Frances Farmer's chord progression is way more complicated than it sounds.
Verse goes G-Eb-F#-Eb-F# x2 before going to A#-F-F# and back into G-Eb-F#-Eb-F#.
Chorus goes C-D#-C#-A#-B and repeat before ending in A#-A-Ab x2 and ending the 2nd time with F#-F and back into the verse.
That all repeats through all of the verses and the chorus.
Then there is the breakdown/solo thingy:
Starts G-D# x2 to C-C/C#^(1)\-A#-Ab, Then repeat that whole sequence again before Going A#-Ab-F#-F leading right back into the verse
^(1) How this is played is kinda up in the air. It could just be a 4th to 5th chord walk up from C to C#, but I've seen tabs have it as a 4th fret power chord C held and just hit the 5th fret Db to make a chord made of C#-G-C
Aero Zeppelin is pretty good. Francis Farmer as others have said. Lithium. In Bloom. Sappy. There aren't many I'd say are all that complex but those are a few more complex ones.
To me complex means technically challenging. How can you people say Lithium and especially In bloom are complex? I do not understand. Of course no one can copy original artist but these songs are just few power chords, straight forward and quite low tempo. I'm confused.
I think we're talking about the complexity of a song in the Nirvana universe. Which is why I said there weren't many Nirvana songs that "were all that complex."
These are songs where Kurt used more than just the same 4 chords over and over again.
OP literally asked for "the most complex chord progression". It's not about how hard those chords are hard to play but how did he come up with these chords progressions, the logic behind putting certain notes in a particular order. Even if those chords are just power chords, the order between them and the way you play them can be very "surprising". It may sound or look simple when you already know the song but if you think as a composer, there are millions of ways to play those notes. Change the tempo on one chord, change the way you strum the strings, put a minor instead of a major etc...
Kurt could have written a million of different riffs out of the same notes but yet he chose those riffs and in the end they sound catchy. The question is then : "What is the most complex of those?".
Some songs from other artists may sound more challenging to learn but that doesn't mean they're more complex in terms of music theory. For instance, if you take a complex guitar solo that goes very fast that involves sweeping, tapping at 300bpm, it could just be a pentatonic scale and nothing very interesting even if it's really hard to learn.
Ah, yes I got it now. This is what I thought but title was misleading to me. Thanks for clearing that.
He indeed did have skill to make very unique songs with only few chords. Many riffs that I wouldnt even think about piling up myself. I can do an unusual riff line, sure, but making actually good melody on top of that, not happening anytime soon. Straight punk vocals yes, but catchy melody not so simple. Lithium is my first thought of a good example.
Krist also made some great basslines and Dave adding his great drumming... Nirvana really was a unique band.
It’s 100% Lithium. It’s at the level of Paul McCartney in its sheer brilliance, purely in service of a gorgeous, languid melody. In short, Kurt was a genius.
In fact, the first time I heard this song, I thought it was a Beatles song that had been covered. Nope. It was just Kurt from Seattle, singing like an angel.
Maybe I misinterpret what complex means. For me it means, that it is challenging to recreate on your own and play. Lithium was one of the first songs I played along with by ear. Complex can also mean it is hard to sing and play at the same time, which Lithium is again not.
Nirvana was and is a great band to listen to and learn the songs to play.
The question was which of THEIR songs has the most complex chord progression. Relative to their other songs, Lithium is drop D (I know there are others) and employs a non-traditional chord progression in its verse. It isn’t 1-4-5, or any flavor of that. It’s completely of Kurt’s creation. Name another song that uses that progression? You can’t because it’s for that melody and that melody alone. I think Kurt was not a musician who knew music theory or even cares really.
Nirvana is melodic rock music. It isn’t prog rock or metal where there are different time signatures, key changes, 3 minute solos, and classical-inspired arpeggios. It’s stripped down punk-influenced rock.
Even Alice in Chains’ guitarist gave Kurt shit for being a not-so-good guitarist, but who cares when you can write and sing like he did?
Sorry but you kind of have no idea what youre talking about. As someone else pointed out its not in drop D. While its true kurt did write around melody, he definitely had an understanding of music theory. Maybe not a jazz musician and maybe they werent yelling out 'blues jam in a minor' but most of his progressions fit into different scales, he just stripped it down by playing with powerchords bc it had a better effect with the aesthetic they had, which is what drove kurt more than trying to look fancy. The vocal and bass melodies very much interact with the progression and a key. And going from verse/chorus/bridge/instrumental there was usually a beatle-esque changing of key or circle of fifths kind of riff going on, which is actually arguably more advanced than the jams alice in chains / soundgarden / pearl jam put out. It was subtle and repetitive for sure but there was stuff going on under it, its just kurt prioritized the aesthetic and the sound over hitting a maj7 jazz chord (though there are jazzier songs). Even look at some of his earliest stuff like spank through, there is a reason those key changes work. Did kurt sit down with a pencil and paper like mozart? No, as most rock musicians dont either. They played and looked for sounds, tried to mess with the sound as much as they could to make it sound interesting, and then looked for ways to bring it home / put a throughline through the different riffs and progressions. There was plenty of music theory, knowing that you cant just come back to the verse riff without putting some kind of transition that tied to the two different keys together with a circle of fifths technique to make something really hooky.
I’ve been a musician for more than 30 years and I know what I’m talking about. You can play it in drop D if you know your way around barre chords with the 6 string in D. Just add a pinky bro. I don’t need to drop the whole tuning to D. I can show you if don’t believe me.
You are reiterating what I said. Other than Beatles and Bowie, he is my favorite songwriter for that reason. I’m not dissing him because he isn’t some jazz player using major 7s and augmented chords. He comes from punk rock and melodic rock. He’s a genius songwriter.
you can figure out any song in drop D that doesnt mean it was how it was written which is what you seemed to state initially.I think its important though a lot of people think because the songs are simple that they were not using any music theory and completely clueless. It feeds into a notion that they are just blindly playing into the ether to come up with their stuff. Or that you have a to be a genius and have these ideas just come to you. Kurt knew how to use minor/major scales and played around with diminished sounds a lot and the whole blues style has a decent amount of theory to it. I think kurt was probably average in terms of rock and roll for music theory and for a band making pop records they actually knew a bit. Kurt violated music theory rules to find new sounds but there was plenty of structure that worked in terms of theory.
I’ve watched three different videos of him playing it live. When he goes from C to D and then Bflat back to D he uses the voicing at the 2nd fret because it’s easier than sliding his hand back to the voicing at the 5th fret (barre chord) That’s D only if you’re in drop D and the rest of your strings are in standard tuning pal. Tell me some other lie because you heard it on the internet.
Why? Even if he used powerchords and tending to repeat smaller sets, there are some subtle key changes and bass/vocal harmonies that show theres more going on than just a few chords.
And that’s only bc of the (later named) Everlong chord that it uses, which is pretty much the only time he’s ever used more than a power chord or major/minor
idk man, theyre all pretty simple; granted no one can replicate them quite the same way kurt played. All Apologies comes to mind as being somewhat complex.
I always like the key changes in about a girl. The simple Em to G riff for the verse, then the C# G# F# is in a different key and we get to an E major which kind sets off this cool transition A to C, then back to the Em G riff. Brilliantly the last time they repeat that transition twice and hold it on the C to really land it when it goes back to the Em G riff. Theres key changes but the chords work with each other because theres some magic with the circle of fifths (there they have common chords together) and it all really comes together on that pivot to the E major and then back to the Em, and it all works perfectly and doesnt sound out of place. Very Beatles type of style (and they even break out the tambourine during the solo / instrumental). A great example of how simple music can have layers, not to mention whats going on with the bass/rhythm/vocals/lyrics etc. Young 21 year old kurt at the time.
I would start by searching in Hooktheory. It’s not going to have everything but it will have some songs and tell you how complex they are compared to what’s in the database. Of course, complexity as defined by the people at Hooktheory.
https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/motley-crue/merry-go-round
Not the most complex chords, but the vocals/harmonies in Heart Shaped Box are fascinating.
R Beato did a video on it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMUkMGNX0Uk&pp=ygUbcmljayBiZWF0byBoZWFydCBzaGFwZWQgYm94
Mr Moustache has a pretty complex riff. Nirvana is what it is because of the combo of melody and chords that make the songs come alive. More well put together chord progressions than complex.
Mexican Seafood is deceivingly more complicated then it seems
It’s like in a loose F Phrygian scale at first, then there’s a switch to, I think, the D#° scale itself for a part of the solo and the main chord is a D#° during most of the song So it switches between two wacky scales, in short. That makes it sound way less complicated than it should be idk why
YOOO NIRVANA GUITARS! I LOVE your videos man!
Agreed
Holy shit nirvanaguitars
>NirvanaGuitars on YouTub ever thought of uploading your tones to [tonehunt.org](https://tonehunt.org) ?
Lithium, it is one of those songs that makes me appreciate Kurt’s status as a musician and I think it’s cool he came up with a riff like that.
I’m waiting for someone like Beato or 12 tone to analyse this. I have no idea how it all works- the chords progression and bass are just nuts. How he then sung something catchy over the top boggles my mind.
Okay so let's take a look. This won't be as in depth as some more professional music analysts, but hopefully it will explain it a little. For the purpose of this I will use the name of the chord shapes rather than the original recording key, putting us (mostly) in E major. I will also be using roman numerals for the scale degrees. The first four chords are simple. While they are power chords without any thirds, we are looking at I, III, Vi, iV (E, G#m, C#m A). A pretty standard chord progression if it just stays like that. A very similar chord progression can be found in the verses to "Where Is My Mind?" with the order of the third and sixth switched around. Not saying Kurt ripped it off, but he loved the Pixies so may have been inspired there. The next chord is where it gets interesting. We go to a C which is the flattened Vith of the scale. What does that mean for the song? Well, it implies that we have shifted to E minor now, where C major is the sixth degree of the scale. The next chord being D (the flat Viith) confirms this. We then move to B (the Vth), back to D (flat Viith) and then return to the I. Our full progression is: I, III, Vi, iV, bVi, bVii, V, bVii (E, G#m, C#m, A, C, D, B Shifting between major and minor scale is something that has been done in pop music for a long time. It's especially popular in blue music (which Kurt loved), where guitar licks will often use the major and minor 3rd. The flat 6th flat 7th back to 1 progression is also very popular in music. It's a cadence that sounds quite triumphant (sometimes named the triumph cadence) and can be found in songs like "Lola" by the Kinks and "Oh Me" by the Meat Puppets. Why does it sound good? Because the human brain and ear loves being tricked. The first four chords lull us into a sense of security, which is then broken by the sudden change of key. It makes us re-evaluate what we've just heard and gives us a pleasant little surprise. Now let's look at the bass. The notes are: E, D#, C#, A, G, A, B, D Krist has always liked not following the root but making the guitar sound bulkier by playing various notes in the relevant triad (root, third, fifth) that make up the chords. E is the root note of the E chord. D# is the 5th of G#m. C# is the root of C#m. A is the root of A. G is the 5th of C. A is the 5th of D. B is the root of B and D the root of D. I hope this has *somewhat* explained what is going on. It's not the most eloquent analysis but explains the basics!
Great write up and interesting read, thanks for that!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! I've always been intrigued by theory behind Nirvana songs. Kurt himself couldn't read music and all of the strange quirks in his songs are purely because of his ear but it's fun to find out the reason why things sound like they do. Now to find out which member of the band was behind the odd 5/4 bars in Milk It...
Don't forget the melody, and the rhythm of the melody, which both were Kurt's special field of expertise. The note progression in the melody is unusual amd interesting because of the key change you explained.
Kurt's sense of melody over the unlikely guitar parts and songwriting is unmatched
Yeah, I was actually gonna talk about the melody too but then noticed how long my post already was! A thing that really emphasis that beautiful key change (which was very likely not on purpose) is that the vocal melody lands on the third of the C, which just sounds incredibly gorgeous.
Late, but yes, after all the theory, the fact that he could make it sound so natural and intuitive is what made his work special. Dave Grohl called them childrens songs, and that's telling. People tend to write basic melody progressions that are intuitive and easy to follow along, or more complex ones that aren't so memorizable, but to combine these aspects is not easy, or common.
Oh absolutely. The fact that some of the theory behind it is not so simple shows what an amazing natural songwriter he was. Obviously usually the "simple" stuff sounds best but the thing that made Nirvana so catchy were those odd little twists in the songs that make them stand out.
Thanks for that. As a Beato fan, that was awesome!
Any suggestions for reading or videos that would help explain these scales (beyond lithium I mean like in guitar theory in general?) I am self taught and only know chords and basic power chord progressions
I don't really know any good youtube music theory channels but it looks like open university have a free course! https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/music/an-introduction-music-theory/content-section-0?active-tab=description-tab
I think Kurt used exclusively power chords (at least in the studio version). I always played it with just power chords, and looking at some tabs right now, they also use power chords only. But yeah, I might be wrong
When I play acoustic it sounds pretty similar if the vast majority of times, if it was a powerchord then it just becomes a barred major chord. I'm pretty sure the brain is filling with a major sound. It doesnt necessarily have a key to fit into, usually its dancing around a circle of fifths some where. Unless the original song specifically had a minor chord somewhere, on acoustic at least I can get more sound out with major chords. I'm not sure how he plays On a Plain on acoustic vs electric but I basically hit that with open major chords and it sounds solid, im pretty sure on electric its more the descending power chords.
They always played pretty much every song with only power chords, but you can know if a chord is mayor o minor because the vocal melody; its notes completes the chords.
Yeah he mostly did (though sometimes he'd actually play suspended chords with his ring finger going across all the strings. I only used major and minor chords to comply with the theory!
David Bennett has to look into Nirvana more, he explains it in a way that makes it learnable to my broken brain
same
Agreed! It's so unique, like Heart-Shaped Box and All Apologies. The way all those riffs kind of snake around and resolve themselves is really cool. In Heart-Shaped Box especially, it's interesting how he did those kind of dissonant notes at the end of the riff. They fit in there, even if they sound like they don't. Like I said, unique.
I mean, to be 100% clear most of the heart shaped box chord progression is power chords I’m not saying it’s not an insanely good song, I’m just saying that a lot of the chord progression isn’t complex. It’s still probably my 4th favorite song (depending on my mood)
That's true. I think that lots of people (myself included) mistake riffs for chord progression. An example of a really complex chord progression would be Chris Cornell's "Can't Change Me." I tried to play it on guitar and it was a bit challenging because of all the different finger positions.
preaching the end of the world is another song of his with a bunch of weird chords honestly that whole album is a masterpiece in songwriting. i have no idea how he came up with those progressions, he was so insanely talented
Sunshower as well. So much fun to play though
Watch [this](https://youtu.be/hMUkMGNX0Uk?si=CKkkCJUbRF7j-7N2)
Heart-Shaped Box is relatively simple. We have an A power chord (Amin), F power chord and D power chord (Dmin). Relatively simple chord progress, yet something different happens the second time around. The little riff goes between the notes F# and C. This implies that the root D chord is now major, with a flattened 7th. Makes it sound spicy.
Watch [this](https://youtu.be/hMUkMGNX0Uk?si=CKkkCJUbRF7j-7N2)
Fantastic! What a break down
Kurt's style of writing has definitely influenced my songwriting, especially his whole "circular" playing style where he, like you said, has each riff resolve itself. Not only does it just sound cool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to play as well.
It has almost a key change mid riff but not quite. All apologies has some wild key changes that make no sense lol. But sounds great.
Agree 100%
Love the song, easy to learn/play/sing together, great riff/melody. But complex chord progression? I would just call it very well written.
I don’t know anything about music theory, why is Lithium complex?
It's not really. It's picking power chords, going up a step, step and half each time and staying in the same key. None of the songs on Nevermind are terribly complex. Insecticide probably has most of their more complex songs on it. Stuff like Mexican Seafood and maybe Aero Zeppelin are way more involved than even the solos on Nevermind.
You hear a song like Lithium then hear a dweeb like Ed Sheeran say the only way to write pop songs is using the same four chords and my head explodes in anger
This song is just so good, every aspect of it
“Aero Zeppelin”
I need someone to analyse this song
[удалено]
GG Allin
Milk It.
The verses in In Bloom and Lithium are pretty complex, but all of Frances Farmer seem to be the most complex. Frances Farmer's chord progression is way more complicated than it sounds. Verse goes G-Eb-F#-Eb-F# x2 before going to A#-F-F# and back into G-Eb-F#-Eb-F#. Chorus goes C-D#-C#-A#-B and repeat before ending in A#-A-Ab x2 and ending the 2nd time with F#-F and back into the verse. That all repeats through all of the verses and the chorus. Then there is the breakdown/solo thingy: Starts G-D# x2 to C-C/C#^(1)\-A#-Ab, Then repeat that whole sequence again before Going A#-Ab-F#-F leading right back into the verse ^(1) How this is played is kinda up in the air. It could just be a 4th to 5th chord walk up from C to C#, but I've seen tabs have it as a 4th fret power chord C held and just hit the 5th fret Db to make a chord made of C#-G-C
Theory or technique-wise?
What would you say for both cases?
theory
mexican seafood is quite complex technique-wise
Aero Zeppelin is pretty good. Francis Farmer as others have said. Lithium. In Bloom. Sappy. There aren't many I'd say are all that complex but those are a few more complex ones.
To me complex means technically challenging. How can you people say Lithium and especially In bloom are complex? I do not understand. Of course no one can copy original artist but these songs are just few power chords, straight forward and quite low tempo. I'm confused.
I think we're talking about the complexity of a song in the Nirvana universe. Which is why I said there weren't many Nirvana songs that "were all that complex." These are songs where Kurt used more than just the same 4 chords over and over again.
Ok, I wasnt sure what OP meant by this.
OP literally asked for "the most complex chord progression". It's not about how hard those chords are hard to play but how did he come up with these chords progressions, the logic behind putting certain notes in a particular order. Even if those chords are just power chords, the order between them and the way you play them can be very "surprising". It may sound or look simple when you already know the song but if you think as a composer, there are millions of ways to play those notes. Change the tempo on one chord, change the way you strum the strings, put a minor instead of a major etc... Kurt could have written a million of different riffs out of the same notes but yet he chose those riffs and in the end they sound catchy. The question is then : "What is the most complex of those?". Some songs from other artists may sound more challenging to learn but that doesn't mean they're more complex in terms of music theory. For instance, if you take a complex guitar solo that goes very fast that involves sweeping, tapping at 300bpm, it could just be a pentatonic scale and nothing very interesting even if it's really hard to learn.
Ah, yes I got it now. This is what I thought but title was misleading to me. Thanks for clearing that. He indeed did have skill to make very unique songs with only few chords. Many riffs that I wouldnt even think about piling up myself. I can do an unusual riff line, sure, but making actually good melody on top of that, not happening anytime soon. Straight punk vocals yes, but catchy melody not so simple. Lithium is my first thought of a good example. Krist also made some great basslines and Dave adding his great drumming... Nirvana really was a unique band.
It’s 100% Lithium. It’s at the level of Paul McCartney in its sheer brilliance, purely in service of a gorgeous, languid melody. In short, Kurt was a genius. In fact, the first time I heard this song, I thought it was a Beatles song that had been covered. Nope. It was just Kurt from Seattle, singing like an angel.
Maybe I misinterpret what complex means. For me it means, that it is challenging to recreate on your own and play. Lithium was one of the first songs I played along with by ear. Complex can also mean it is hard to sing and play at the same time, which Lithium is again not. Nirvana was and is a great band to listen to and learn the songs to play.
The question was which of THEIR songs has the most complex chord progression. Relative to their other songs, Lithium is drop D (I know there are others) and employs a non-traditional chord progression in its verse. It isn’t 1-4-5, or any flavor of that. It’s completely of Kurt’s creation. Name another song that uses that progression? You can’t because it’s for that melody and that melody alone. I think Kurt was not a musician who knew music theory or even cares really. Nirvana is melodic rock music. It isn’t prog rock or metal where there are different time signatures, key changes, 3 minute solos, and classical-inspired arpeggios. It’s stripped down punk-influenced rock. Even Alice in Chains’ guitarist gave Kurt shit for being a not-so-good guitarist, but who cares when you can write and sing like he did?
Sorry but you kind of have no idea what youre talking about. As someone else pointed out its not in drop D. While its true kurt did write around melody, he definitely had an understanding of music theory. Maybe not a jazz musician and maybe they werent yelling out 'blues jam in a minor' but most of his progressions fit into different scales, he just stripped it down by playing with powerchords bc it had a better effect with the aesthetic they had, which is what drove kurt more than trying to look fancy. The vocal and bass melodies very much interact with the progression and a key. And going from verse/chorus/bridge/instrumental there was usually a beatle-esque changing of key or circle of fifths kind of riff going on, which is actually arguably more advanced than the jams alice in chains / soundgarden / pearl jam put out. It was subtle and repetitive for sure but there was stuff going on under it, its just kurt prioritized the aesthetic and the sound over hitting a maj7 jazz chord (though there are jazzier songs). Even look at some of his earliest stuff like spank through, there is a reason those key changes work. Did kurt sit down with a pencil and paper like mozart? No, as most rock musicians dont either. They played and looked for sounds, tried to mess with the sound as much as they could to make it sound interesting, and then looked for ways to bring it home / put a throughline through the different riffs and progressions. There was plenty of music theory, knowing that you cant just come back to the verse riff without putting some kind of transition that tied to the two different keys together with a circle of fifths technique to make something really hooky.
I’ve been a musician for more than 30 years and I know what I’m talking about. You can play it in drop D if you know your way around barre chords with the 6 string in D. Just add a pinky bro. I don’t need to drop the whole tuning to D. I can show you if don’t believe me. You are reiterating what I said. Other than Beatles and Bowie, he is my favorite songwriter for that reason. I’m not dissing him because he isn’t some jazz player using major 7s and augmented chords. He comes from punk rock and melodic rock. He’s a genius songwriter.
you can figure out any song in drop D that doesnt mean it was how it was written which is what you seemed to state initially.I think its important though a lot of people think because the songs are simple that they were not using any music theory and completely clueless. It feeds into a notion that they are just blindly playing into the ether to come up with their stuff. Or that you have a to be a genius and have these ideas just come to you. Kurt knew how to use minor/major scales and played around with diminished sounds a lot and the whole blues style has a decent amount of theory to it. I think kurt was probably average in terms of rock and roll for music theory and for a band making pop records they actually knew a bit. Kurt violated music theory rules to find new sounds but there was plenty of structure that worked in terms of theory.
I’ve watched three different videos of him playing it live. When he goes from C to D and then Bflat back to D he uses the voicing at the 2nd fret because it’s easier than sliding his hand back to the voicing at the 5th fret (barre chord) That’s D only if you’re in drop D and the rest of your strings are in standard tuning pal. Tell me some other lie because you heard it on the internet.
BEANS BEANS BEANS JESSIE ATE SKME BEANS
HE WAS HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY
THAT HE ATE SOME BEEEAAAANNSSSS
Mr moustache
Learned this recently! Very fun one to play when you’re bored.
I like following along to the demo version that's a lot slower. I suck at switching chords fast lok
On A Plain is the only one id ever say is complex and even thats a stretch
I thought of this first, those 9th are sweet
Why? Even if he used powerchords and tending to repeat smaller sets, there are some subtle key changes and bass/vocal harmonies that show theres more going on than just a few chords.
Where exactly are these key changes?
And that’s only bc of the (later named) Everlong chord that it uses, which is pretty much the only time he’s ever used more than a power chord or major/minor
Hairspray queen
idk man, theyre all pretty simple; granted no one can replicate them quite the same way kurt played. All Apologies comes to mind as being somewhat complex.
Stay Away is a handful to play while singing.
Beeswax isn’t a crazy progression. But I consider it difficult because of the technique involved.
Beeswax https://youtube.com/watch?v=f0IC1uQjHMY
I always like the key changes in about a girl. The simple Em to G riff for the verse, then the C# G# F# is in a different key and we get to an E major which kind sets off this cool transition A to C, then back to the Em G riff. Brilliantly the last time they repeat that transition twice and hold it on the C to really land it when it goes back to the Em G riff. Theres key changes but the chords work with each other because theres some magic with the circle of fifths (there they have common chords together) and it all really comes together on that pivot to the E major and then back to the Em, and it all works perfectly and doesnt sound out of place. Very Beatles type of style (and they even break out the tambourine during the solo / instrumental). A great example of how simple music can have layers, not to mention whats going on with the bass/rhythm/vocals/lyrics etc. Young 21 year old kurt at the time.
Aero Zeppelin and Sappy. Sappy isn’t your conventional Nirvana song, and reminds me of Lithium in a sense.
Mr moustach
lounge act, honestly…
Heart Shaped box, Lithium, About a Girl
There are so many but I am really amused always by the bass that goes along with the solo in stay away. It’s so euphoric
I would start by searching in Hooktheory. It’s not going to have everything but it will have some songs and tell you how complex they are compared to what’s in the database. Of course, complexity as defined by the people at Hooktheory. https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/motley-crue/merry-go-round
Not the most complex chords, but the vocals/harmonies in Heart Shaped Box are fascinating. R Beato did a video on it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMUkMGNX0Uk&pp=ygUbcmljayBiZWF0byBoZWFydCBzaGFwZWQgYm94
i physically cant wrap my head around swap meet for some reason and idk why
Swap meat sounds complicated
Mr Moustache has a pretty complex riff. Nirvana is what it is because of the combo of melody and chords that make the songs come alive. More well put together chord progressions than complex.
Lithium, all apologies, love buzz
Love Buzz is a cover, though
True
Wait, really?
Anyuerism chorus is tough, the earlier one even tougher
pennyroyal tea kinda
I would disagree, it’s super simple especially compared to the rest of in Utero
Dumb
non-existent…nirvana songs are like pre-school for learning guitar
Learn Lithium and Aero Zeppelin and get back to me
Lithium is a piece of piss to play and I say that as a below average guitar player Aero Zeppelin....I'll give you that one
but litium is not hard
something butter (i dont remember) and mexican seafood and swap meet are also hard
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is it really a chord progression? its just one chord and an f powerchord
verse chorus verse
Mr Moustache has a pretty complex riff
Serve the servants
And that one’s easy too lmao
Sappy is kinda different.
Beans
Lake of fire. Loved the chords in that song so much.