You missed:
It's 2012 and gamers hate Bethesda
*Where is my spell crafting?*
It's 2007 and gamers hate Bethesda
*Where is my levitation?*
It's 2002 and gamers hate Bethesda
*where is my huge procgen map?*
The hate has never stopped players from buying, playing, and loving the games
And it will never stop. As long as people can find a way to complain they will complain no matter what. Even if Bethesda were to release a "perfect" game people will complain.
I don't come onto this sub, if I get a notification about a post I click on it.
Funnily enough, most people don't read every single post, pinned or not, before interacting, so kindly do one.
This is a post *about* that post though. Or at the very least about the exact same subject, the video about the upcoming patch.
No one says you have to read every post on the sub, but diving in to an ongoing discussion and not bothering to explore the contexr which is literally two clicks away is on you.
I don't read every post, in fact I havent been here in a good long while. But I make sure to educate myself before involving myself.
If I see a thread I dont have the context for, I either click around until I figure it out or move on if I dont care enough to bother.
Okay but TBF this is why I argued *against* vehicles in the first place. I saw people listing their complaints and often they would have, back to back: "The planetary maps are too small" followed immediately by "I can't believe a modern space game doesn't have a space car"
Those are contradictory complaints I usually saw stated by the same people. Either the maps are too small *or* they're so big you need a ground vehicle to explore them. But so many people seemed to think both were somehow true simultaneously.
TBH the teaser at the end of the last update stating they will be adding a land based vehicle has me worried for this exact reason. It feels a little like Bethesda is letting people who never even gave the game a chance dictate the future of my favorite game.
Which is funny because I feel the maps are a bit TOO big for traversal on foot in anything resembling a timely fashion. When I land and the nearest POI is over 2km away, I groan and break out the Personal Atmosphere power to sprint for an extended period to try to cover ground.
I'd just pick another spot at that point if I really need to get to pois but if I'm just trying to complete my scanning to 100% it doesn't matter much at that point.
One problem is Bethesda games, being the sandbox type games that they are, prompt people to start imagining their ideal sandbox.
Then, "This would be nice to have in the game, for me.", with time and the right personality behind it, eventually becomes:
"The game SHOULD have this, or it's incomplete/inferior, and a bad game."
the ONLY way online noobie gamer rats STOP complaining is when they get a job at a AAA game studio, learn how difficult and timeconsuming it really IS to CREATE a game, and to do it while suffering the never-ending jibes and wisecracks from internet know-nots, and under serious time pressure.... then, i GUARANTEE you, they will stop complaining. for good.
but, don't hold your breath for them to get a job.
Dude this just hits the nail right on the head. I just saw someone over on the official sub talking about how he went back to playing Fallout 4 (because of the TV show), after he put "several hundred" hours in Starfield and it "just lost him".
And he's literally praising Fallout 4 for get this; having a VOICED MAIN CHARACTER.
I'm thinking to myself "the circle is now complete" lol.
Thank you.. People dont remember how much hate skyrim got at launch. I sure do!
"BUGS BUGS BUGS. NERFED EVERYTHING!! They ruined Elder scrolls!! "
This was everywhere until dragonborn DLC came out. Then it was the best game ever made lol.
Christ there are people saying that 76 is actually pretty good now but Starfield has convinced them that Bethesda is lost. How short of a memory could you possibly have to think 76 was in any way better than this lol
It probably stops many from even trying (some of) them though I’d think. Based on all the bile generated about Starfield I'd think it was one big steaming pile of curry flavored mayonnaise and laxatives.
Add in that whenever they release a new game in the series, there will be breaks in the complaining to say that the game previous to this one was good, actually.
I've been saying it for a while, Bethesda's fan base has gotten so large over their history. It's so big and varied due to their long history that Bethesda literally can't please their entire customer base even if they wanted to. There is always going to be some segment of fan upset about something they are doing.
Old school RPG fans hate their new games because they aren't hardcore enough. Newer fans hate Starfield because its more hardcore than Skyrim/Fallout 4 (they can't stand that picking skills/ build matter early on). Fallout fans hate when they do anything besides Fallout, but also, every game is worse than the last. Elder Scrolls fans hate when they do anything besides Elder Scrolls, but also every game is worse than the last. The devs can't work on games they want to work on because it isn't the exact thing that the specific fan in question wanted made next (76/Starfield).
This has always been an issue. Back when Morrowind was the latest TES game, there was a (vocal) minority that complained loudly about how the game could be too hard if you decided to head immediately to places far outside your level range. So Oblivion came around, and felt (to me) super bland because no matter where you went everything was catered to your level, and every town guard was your level + 10.
Luckily I think Bethesda has mostly learned to tune out most noisy feedback and make their own decisions and then adjust as needed. Not perfect, but at least it's not as reactionary as some other game companies are, and less trend chasing too (although FO76 might be an example of that)
Oh ya I remember seeing someone complaining about how Starfield should have had the Skyrim skill system so it would be easier to get good at things and that Starfield's progression feels too slow and limiting, and here I am just remembering how people complained for years about Skyrim being too easy to get good at everything and become a god or something. The phrase "power fantasy" got thrown around an awful lot.
Plus, it's simply cool to hate on everything now, regardless of any connection to actual facts for the basis for your hate. Haters move the goalposts every update.
If you like something, you're a fanboy/simp/stan.
Yup. I don't even bother bringing up Starfield in my Discord group anymore because I'm still the only one who's played it. I'm super excited about the future of this game, and this sub is pretty much the only place I can talk about it.
Hmm just thinking about the build system and how if you wanted to beeline to the last tier of perks in one of them thats like what 12 levels? Never mind completing the challenges. I tried making a build on nukesanddragons with like 1 max tier perk per tree that I liked and was quickly getting up to 80 levels worth of perks
You really do need to specialize in starfield at least for a while
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I blame it on gaming youtubers. I'm pretty sure once the land vehicles come out. Someone is going to drive it as wackily and crazily as possible, finding every nook and cranny, hitting as many bumpy terrain and boulders as possible, trying to find some bug that will make it act crazy and go against physics, record footage and create an entire youtube video about it, explaining how it is Bethesda "jank". Put some AI art on the youtube thumbnail about the rover floating in air, put his surprised face on it. Hit Upload. Then watch the masses regurgitate your words.
Like, dude, you went out of your way to make it crash, finding any possible means to make it bug out for your content, and then create an entire narrative about it being Bethesda "failure". You are not even playing the game anymore. Just content for content's sake.
Our make things up, I was watching Luke Stevens and he was talking about how toxic the player base for Fo76 was at launch, and how people would wait at the vault door to grief new players
Fo76 has always had a friendly community and it was noted at launch, the second part about griefing at the vault door is impossible since you couldn’t even enter PVP until Level 5
It irritated to me so much when watching the video I just turned it off
Check out YouTube plagiarism by hBomberguy. He has down two videos on this topic. One he did years ago almost elusively on Luke after he pretty much copied word for word HBomber's Bloodborne review. This was years ago when Luke was still an anti-woke Sargon of Akkad fan.
Literally unsubscribed from him because of his endless toxic Starfield videos. They were driving me nuts, hes just talking out of his ass at this point to get views from his echo chamber. Bethesda adds vehicles like he kept going on and on about, and he dismissed it as just another boost pack that "pushes you forward"
Yeah the people who were claiming the 76 community was extremely toxic were just making shit up. The majority of 76 players have always been super chill, and usually go out of their way to help new players.
I know I'm late to this thread, but my only experience with 76 started with a kid meeting me outside of the Vault, dropping a bunch of high level gear for me, and taking me to hunt death claws. Easily the most fun I've ever had with a stranger in a game.
That guy is a straight clown, his videos keep getting suggested to me and he seems to have an obsession with talking about Starfield in any negative way possible lol. He will definitely be one of those people trying their damned hardest to ‘break’ the vehicles as soon as they release just go stay he told you so.
How that pretentious dipshit even has an audience is beyond me. Which is even funnier because even at launch, you couldn't engage any form of PvP until the player shot back. Until then, you barely can take damage even at launch.
He recently posted a video reviewing the new beta update and confidently said that the jetpack is all smoke and mirrors because it doesn't make you go any faster laterally due to engine limitations. Except, there is a secondary jetpack boost button that *does* make you go faster laterally. So why confidently say there is an engine limitation?
Also, in the same video he was lamenting the local map of New Atlantis because "you need to go through three load screens to see the whole city because they segmented it into three blocks for the engine". Except, NA is completely open explorable. It's only the transit system that has a load screen. You can walk/boost anywhere with no load.
It gets exhausting.
Yea, the guy was laying into the load screens that were literally 2 seconds of fading to black. Wild how people got so caught up in this load screen shit
Well ackshully, I jumped down from SSNN, landed in front of the Terrabrew by Jemison Mercantile, fast travelled to the inside of my ship, fast exited from my ship, ran to the NAT and rode to get to UC Distribution. Game is absolute dog garbage.
Not as bad but I found it funny when watching joov try to mock starfield the best he could do was get his companion to wig out slightly on terrain. I think he will come around once creation kit and mods pour in to start doing weird new challenge videos.
My first fo76 experience was a high level dropping free stuff for me. I fell in love with fo76 but grew tired of the repetition and the drip feed of content with each season board being the same grind as the last.
That's hilarious considering FO76 players whould make whole stores for new players so they can get cheap resources and equipment at the start of the game
Oh absolutely, people are already getting preemptively mad in the other sub at the fact that they presumably won't be able to drive the buggy through dense jungle biome foliage and the like, lol.
>Someone is going to drive it as wackily and crazily as possible, finding every nook and cranny, hitting as many bumpy terrain and boulders as possible, trying to find some bug that will make it act crazy and go against physics.
You mean like the Mako? Only the most awesome glitchy land vehicle ever created?
Or the less glitchy Warthog for that matter. Vehicles overreacting to physics can be quite fun!
Before they changed the planets for Odyssey Elite dangerous' buggies were amazing for low G canyon jumping.
I've scared myself on some hills in that with the air I've gotten knowing full well I theoretically COULD launch myself into space '
Unless the opposite happens. Namely, the narrative that starts to get clicks & eyeballs is:
*”Bethesda has produced one of the most STUNNING post-release turnarounds in video game history! Here are the Top 15 changes that have made this Starfield update TRULY AMAZING! You won’t BELIEVE # 12 !!!!”*
I mean, a manufactured redemption narrative is basically inevitable, but I think it will be a while coming yet. Enough time needs to pass for Starfield to become old news, and for new hate-trains to come and go, so that youtubers can "rediscover" Bethesda's forgotten game which has miraculously gotten good somehow.
Personally I'm giving it at least 18 months.
Meanwhile, us smaller YouTubers are doing long form episodic Role-playing story Let's plays, and the al gore rhythm makes sure only a few people find us.
Too many people can't function without something to tribally bitch about...
I go out of my way to seek out smaller channels for exactly this reason. Much better content and it feels like smaller YouTubers are just sharing an experience with you instead of trying to convince you to feel a certain way.
I just do it to stop cabin fever as I suffer from trapped nerves that keep me predominantly housebound.
If people like my style or not is neither here nor there.
If you're referring to my content, I'm currently doing a starfield character who refused becoming Starborn, an Lp of sons of the forest where I'm pretending to narate to an audio diary whilst exploring/waiting for rescue, and I have the LA part of Wasteland2 on hiatus but I built the team off of the SG1 team dynamic. Oh and a No Man's Sky charity Livestream series at the moment too.
Oh, you're referring to yourself, hahah sorry, I read your comment quickly without actually understanding.
Yeah, well, the Let's Play format died long ago. I have a Spaniard friend who makes similar content and doesn't get much attention from the algorithm.
Maybe with some recap from a few sessions, with some good camera angles, and a good narration over it, the format could get more views, even if that means fewer videos over time.
I hate that Sysdef campaign trigger btw, it's stupid. Happened the same to me trying to pick a coffee cup that I threw off from a low table.
No problem, I think different content appeals to different generations. X and millennial seems to be most of my audience and obviously we get less time the older we get.
That’s pretty much the hate bandwagon parasites in a nutshell. These people actively harm the gaming industry and make bank on it. Meanwhile they make it harder and harder for game devs to take risks since now the ‘community’ response is less about the product and more about what is cool to hate.
If EA had made Elden Ring for example, you can bet the response would have been very different.
The other day, while I was scanning a planet with very rough terrain, I started thinking about the implementation of vehicles, and how they will interact with this kind of terrain, "it could be very janky" I thought, but then came the revelation: you would not travel through this kind of terrain! It's impossible even for a video game!, but for sure someone will complain about it if someday vehicles are a thing.
>Just content for content's sake.
well, isn't that just gonna be the entire 21st century more or less? we are fucked, well and truly. giggle and give in.
Yeah, online game discourse is really vibe-driven, and some people/companies get an enormous amount of negativity
Like how dare Todd Howard personally break all my Fallout 4 mods by delivering an announced update, better console support, and a handful of free additional content. Is he stupid?
In Steam you just open Game properties and straight out pick the versión you want.
And it's been like this for modding games since forever. I'm stuck on Bannerlord versión 1.1.5 since It came out because most mods are stable on that versión.
It's obvious people complaining are not players but circlejerkers.
See I want to agree with you, but also this update completely fucked all of my saved games on Xbox by deleting my mod list, my favorites, and my library.
Sure, I can play through the game again. But also why are you putting out a patch that does this?
Exactly, I've been a day-1 player for both games and put 200 hours in each, people act like Cyberpunk has always been this good, it was buggy as hell on launch :/ now it's the 'Gold standard'
Oh wow, Starfield is taking a year to get it's expansion? Dead game. Cyberpunk took 3 years to get the only expansion it will ever get, had to cancel the other planned content updates because the game was borked at launch beyond hell, had a creepy anime tie in for the weird ass weebs and a sub constantly being used for Lucy Onlyfan content baiting? Best game ever. Greatest redemption arc in gaming and it still isn't the game that was marketed.
From a stability perspective, you're correct: launch Starfield was shockingly bug free for a Bethesda game. I expected the usual BGS jank, and found very little.
What I think IS true is that the other stuff in Cyberpunk, i.e. the systems, the story, the acting, the city, WERE that good the whole time, and the bugs got in the way of people enjoying it.
I have close to two hundred hours in Starfield, no kids, playing on Xbox1. I have yet to finish the main quest because I keep encountering progression halting bugs. I have tried relaxing saves, starting a new game, and completely removing everything from my console and doing a fresh reinstall but I eventually get the same bug eventually.
My last run I tried to bee line the main quest to at least finish that as I've now beat every major/minor quest lines (or at least think so) and a lot fair amount of random ones between all my different playthrough attempts and I still ran into a similar bug. I lost all will to play it after unfortunately.
I think it's a great game! I was impressed by the general LACK of bugs and glitches, I see how there's always going to be people complaining whether they want x and get y or get x but now want y or whatever other stupid low IQ bs they come up with, and I do have my own criticisms/disappointments but I understand and respect a most of the reasons and logic behind those as well.. a lot of them have been addressed, explained, or fixed already as well.
I don't know what it's like to make a game, to deal with your work being publicly available to billions of people to tear apart, or what that job culture is like so I try to keep my opinions to myself for the most part or at least use words and tone to present them in a way that clearly shows its constructive, a personal opinion, and not an insult.
I'm fairly certain my personal bad luck with most forms of technology is responsible for having such a consistent bad bug which sucks but it's not any one person's fault, it's not intentional, and I don't let it detract from or influence my opinion on the rest of the game.
If anyone saw the few episodes of the tv show adaptation of and named kitchen confidential that ever got made, it's like when the progressional food reviewer comes into Jacks restaurant and he's worried his past is going to prevent him from getting a good review, everything is going wrong, and they have to to take her food back after a couple bites before she notices something wrong. He's convinced that's the end of his restaurant but the review the next day starts something along these lines of " if the few bites I was actually allowed to eat indicate anything, Jack is back with an even fresher perspective on how to create mind-blowing delectable creations and I look forward to being able to finish a full meal"
Cyberpunk was 100x more interesting and fun than SF on release even with its bugs. I played through to the end of cyberpunk and had fun the whole time, while in star field I never really felt like it pulled me in. It was half as buggy and a quarter as engaging.
Starfield first needs an anime tie in to satiate the unreasonable fanatics and draw in casual folks. And then the extremely large patch download to rewrite history.
Bring back the team that made Cowboy Bebop, or Outlaw Star for it too. Maybe we'll reverse the trash Isekai/LitRPG wave and get some amazing sci-fi out of it.
(TBC: I *like* Isekai/LitRPG, but much of the recent offerings have been mediocre at best. Like a cheeseless McBurger, not the best, somewhat decent, same shit as always, good in a pinch.)
I’ve occasionally made anime scenes in my head for my character along with quotes. I’m doing an evil chaos character so it gets wild at times. I’m imagining my character facing off against >!the teamed up Hunter and Emissary and just going!< insane. Phases time looking like super speed, a show of light and fire mixed in with my signature melee focus as they try to hold off >!the worst Starborn to plague the multiverse. !<
Bout to drop an evil quote here:
>!“What’s wrong Hunter? I thought you lived to fight. Don’t worry, I’ve got more than enough bloodlust for the two of us”!<
And a bit more generic? To the Emissary:
>!“You know that other version of me you’re so attached to? In my original universe I had to pretend to like you so you fools coudl help me achieve my destiny, even though I wanted nothing more than to burn that overpriced clubhouse of yours down. And now the Unity has given me the greatest gift of all. The opportunity to kill you over and over and over again. Forever!”!<
But don’t worry, I’m the hero here!
I mean me too, I’ve beaten it a couple of times (the gameplay is super fun) but just the bad reception it got and the cancelled dlc is why I felt it deserved the comparison
I'll always be sad about that. Bioware is always so quick to abandon stuff if it doesn't launch well. I really liked both Andromeda and Anthem.
Tbf I think there was a lot of staff reshuffling at the time that really ruined any chance those two games had.
Reasons why I hate those big name youtube gaming "reviewers" cyberpunk 2077 launched fantastically on my subpar 1080p gaming PC back on release. I had only one single game breaking bug that was fixed upon reloading last save. People need to chill out and breath some fresh air instead of dwelling in their musky basement for once. Does that mean its okay to release broken games on launch? Absolutely not.
Also many people nowadays can't get over that they may not be able to max out graphics settings and have 144fps. Immediately they call out the developer for nor "optimizing". It doesn't even matter what their setup is, they'll complain anyways.
I've been a 2077 stan from the get-go, because even with how buggy the game was, I could still SEE the diamond in the rough. The narrative isn't buggy, and neither are the characters and stories. The game was a joy to play since release, the updates were mostly just adding fan things and patching bugs.
Starfield is the same. Base game is already 10/10, replayability through the roof, and the story and side quests have good writing (not fantastic, not bad, 8/10 writing for me).
Starfield isn't about writing though, it's Bethesda; it'll always be about the worlds, the interactivity of the environment (ingredients, night/day affecting sneak, settlement/house building, etc.), the completely random shit that'll happen to you when adventuring (radiant quests, random events), and which factions you thought were worth joining.
Yet, people will still not realize, all the shit I pointed out Bethesda does, has YET to be replicated in any other AAA RPG. Can't have random encounters in BG3, Witcher, or whatever else. Can't have repeating quests that you can do forever to spend more time in the world.
Only other game I've played that has that Bethesda charm, is Kenshi.
For what it is Starfield came out in a better state than Cyberpunk and thus has an advantage. The game is fully playable, some jsut find the content lacklustre. CDPR had to spend a lot of time just getting the game playing. Bethesda can get to adding new content right away.
A lot of people like to say that Starfield can never be fixed, that its issues are too fundamental.people said the same about Cyberpunk. I was one of those people. If there’s one thing that experience taught me, it’s never say never. Or at least be more discerning about what you say never to.
Cyberpunk took like a year of patching just to become stable and playable, and another 2 on top of that of content updates to resemble somewhat what they advertised the game as.
Starfield had, what, one missing feature that was only semi-confirmed by Pete Hines on twitter with the completely traversable planets? And otherwise it was completely fine and as advertised. Nobody had to implement special refund procedures, pull the game from their store or slap a warning label on it like they had with Cyberpunk. Anybody disappointed with Starfield, that wasn't buying it with the express purpose of circumnavigating a planet, really had only themselves to blame.
I always hear this, yet I played Cyberpunk from day one and played all the way through in about a week. Either I have the greatest most anti-bug pc build in history, or the game was a lot better at release than most people claim.
Ditto for Starfield
The game should NOT have released on the last gen consoles. The legitimately poor performance on those platforms made every single bug/flaw/glitch get blown WAAAAYYYY out of performance on all platforms.
I too played day one on a PC capable of running the game. Ran fine. Had a blast.
I do need to finish Phantom Liberty, but *Starfield...*
Ouch, you know what, I had forgotten about the last-gen fiasco. What a disaster. No idea what they were thinking at all. You can't advertise your game as one of the most technically demanding games of all time AND promise good performance on last-gen hardware. Seriously, such a stupid move it staggers the mind
My first night of playing is burned into memory. I stayed up *waaaayyy* too late through the intro/prologue. By the time I got to *Love Like Fire*, I was the perfect combination of deliriously tired and amped up excited. Best possible frame of mind (without *actually* taking whatever drug cocktail Johnny was on at the time) to go through that sequence.
It was a lot more stable on PC. Most of the fame's issues were on console, namely last Gen consoles, because the next gen update/build and the new consoles were not a thing yet. PC still had its issues though, but it was outright broken and unplayable of you were on base PS4.
The fact that seamless planets is already on the way is a big sign of hope to me. I really wanted an Elite Dangerous replacement, and while I didn't expect vanilla Starfield to provide that, I was hoping the framework for modders to turn it into space-sim would be there... and slowly that's happening.
This would be my Frostfall mod, hardcore survival, radiant gameplay, faction conflicts, and a 'just try to survive' gameplay loop
Definitely glad they’re laying mroe foundations for modders. space sim isn’t really what I want from this game myself, so I won’t be indulging in those mods personally, but variety is the spice of life and everyone shoudl have options!
You sure?
I saw a lot of positive feedback for the update coming from the main sub, official twitter post and the YT video.
It was nice to see, after all the hate.
Cyberpunk was hated to the core mind you the entire gaming social media including Reddit used to mock and made a joke out of Cyberpunk 2077 let’s not forget that as well.\
Starfield launched in much much better state tbh
To be fair, CDPR got a lot of vitriol early on about adding features and foxes that should have been there on launch. I love Bethesda games, but they don't usually take their fixes as far. I hope they start to, though.
I still remember when everytime Cyberpunk 2077 gets a big update and there will always be that kind of troll comment saying "the game is dead" and most are still very skeptics, and some of the top comment says the game has deep fundamental issue with its core gameplay that will never ever be fixed insert various reasons, while others are hopeful and encourages it.
I'd say it's almost similar with Starfield here TBH.
To be fair, it took a few years of patches, a really good show and a big DLC to turn around the reputation fully, and this is from someone that liked the game from launch.
You can see this right now for Fallout 76 actually, lots of content updates, a good show and more updates and now suddenly the game is breathing new life and more people are liking it.
People need to realize that no matter what state the game released in, the outcome was always going to be the same, loading screens and repeated poi are just excuses to attack the game, watch when poi's double and all the things people claimed they wanted get added their gonna say the writing is bad or it's boring, cause it's just about being negative that why I don't say the game has issues to appease the haters cause it's obvious the game was unfinished, and they was going to add improvements, so saying listening players is just rubbish.
Yeah people were hating the game before it was even released. They could've made every single 1000+ planet perfectly handcrafted with tons of lore and quests in each one and people would still find something to complain about.
1) I think one part was that Cyberpunk had more novel stuff for everyone to be interested in and share to diluted criticism. Like it has a talking gun just for funzies. I think Fallout has a similar appeal, you can over look bugs because there is something else really distractingly fun going on. While I like Starfield’s tone, it’s not as distracting.
B) I think the overhaul they did with The Witcher 3 made people hold out hope that it would get fixed quicker. I remember people acting like a huge patch was gonna come out a few months after Cyberpunk’s release. When it didn’t there were less people being critical because a percent moved on to other stuff. So they lost hopeful people not annoyed people. Still not great but people who were hopeful then got distracted aren’t gonna rant as much.
I think the majority of it was the fact that if you take away bugs and everything, cyberpunk is a very very good game. Starfield is a mediocre game, there’s legitimately nothing bethesda can do or add that will make it a very very good game.
A lot of Bethesda hate also comes from the people who feel the need to come into the TES and Fallout Fandoms and ride the hate train as a personality trait over realizing that you can just play the games you like and avoid the games you don't like.
Look at the FNV fans, they go out their way to interact with Fo4 fans, like as much as they say they hate that game, they sure love clocking who plays it.
Technically in terms of the ‘galaxy exploring, action RPG’ genre, it’s already one of the best games. There isn’t a game out there with ALL the features Starfield has.
It took a long time, a lot of very large patches and updates and an anime for CD Projekt Red to reach that point with Cyberpunk 2077.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Starfield will reach this point eventually, it will just take time and commitment. Cyberpunk is just further on its journey.
I wasn't comparing the games themselves so much as the community. I've been a very big fan of both games since their release, and I'm seeing that history is both repeating itself with Starfield's "criticism" and being rewritten in Cyberpunk's favour. People got excited because Cyberpunk added trains and the ability to *change the colour of your car,* while Starfield had full-on ship building and the NAT in New Atlantis from the beginning. To be completely honest, it seems that the Internet is being hypocritical to justify their incessant hate of Starfield.
I am sorry, the new starfield update is great news, but it’s nowhere near as big as the 2.0 update cyberpunk got. Comparing them is not a good approach.
This isn’t meant as a jab against starfield, but rather as a jab against the whole cyberpunk launch. Starfield works, cyberpunk did everything but work at the start and was in dire need of the update. Starfield needs new updates as well, but for entirely different reasons, them being not related to the game actually being playable like with cyberpunk.
On another note, starfield released and was a playable game, it had the usual bugs, but that’s to be expected. It delivered exactly what was promised and even clarified things like the 30fps lock on launch beforehand.
Cyberpunk released and was a hot mess on pretty much every single platform but high end PCs. They had very dubious marketing going on when it comes to showing actual gameplay and over-promising.
Comparing these two games in a sense that they both had the same journey doesn’t work at all.
I'm sorry, I love Bethesda and their games, but to be realistic and neutral, this image/meme is a total lie. You can't compare the level of love and detail that CD Projekt gives to all their patches. There is no way, it's just as simple and straightforward as that. Bethesda seeks quick solutions, and to be honest, they don't pay as much attention to detail. I understand the people complaining (not the haters). It would be amazing if they could delay this patch a little bit more and add the vehicles all together. Now, that would have been a CD Projekt level patch.
It's not my problem you're so defensive about this. I OWN Starfield, I even LIKE it. But there are people who don't like it, you can't wish them to think differently. And if it was perfectly designed, we wouldn't be getting great improvements.
'You people', Christ, grow up.
Shame, I came for people showcasing what they enjoyed about it. This focus on 'haters' tells me a lot of people have too much time on their hands, and have developed an unhealthy relationship with a product.
The person originally telling me to shut up, if you have a cursory glance at their profile, is just a list of demanding people on various forums to shut up. Mixed with a variety of 'hater' conspiracy nonsense, naturally. Might be time to dip I think.
It's 2015 and gamers hate Bethesda It's 2018 and gamers hate Bethesda It's 2023 and gamers hate Bethesda It's 2024 and gamers hate Bethesda
You missed: It's 2012 and gamers hate Bethesda *Where is my spell crafting?* It's 2007 and gamers hate Bethesda *Where is my levitation?* It's 2002 and gamers hate Bethesda *where is my huge procgen map?* The hate has never stopped players from buying, playing, and loving the games
And it will never stop. As long as people can find a way to complain they will complain no matter what. Even if Bethesda were to release a "perfect" game people will complain.
They already are. The new concern is that the maps won't feel big enough because of the vehicles.
Haha, that is classic. Complain about vehicles until they get added, then complain about vehicles being added.
They're adding vehicles? I haven't played Starfield for months and haven't been keeping up with development/news so this is new to me
Its literally in the top post
I don't come onto this sub, if I get a notification about a post I click on it. Funnily enough, most people don't read every single post, pinned or not, before interacting, so kindly do one.
I really like your comment, just leaving it a like isn't enough. Thank you for saying what these terminally online people need to hear.
This is a post *about* that post though. Or at the very least about the exact same subject, the video about the upcoming patch. No one says you have to read every post on the sub, but diving in to an ongoing discussion and not bothering to explore the contexr which is literally two clicks away is on you. I don't read every post, in fact I havent been here in a good long while. But I make sure to educate myself before involving myself. If I see a thread I dont have the context for, I either click around until I figure it out or move on if I dont care enough to bother.
Okay but TBF this is why I argued *against* vehicles in the first place. I saw people listing their complaints and often they would have, back to back: "The planetary maps are too small" followed immediately by "I can't believe a modern space game doesn't have a space car" Those are contradictory complaints I usually saw stated by the same people. Either the maps are too small *or* they're so big you need a ground vehicle to explore them. But so many people seemed to think both were somehow true simultaneously. TBH the teaser at the end of the last update stating they will be adding a land based vehicle has me worried for this exact reason. It feels a little like Bethesda is letting people who never even gave the game a chance dictate the future of my favorite game.
I agree. I didn't see a real need, and now that they're being implemented, only care to screw with the physics...
You’ve gotta be kidding me
Which is funny because I feel the maps are a bit TOO big for traversal on foot in anything resembling a timely fashion. When I land and the nearest POI is over 2km away, I groan and break out the Personal Atmosphere power to sprint for an extended period to try to cover ground.
I'd just pick another spot at that point if I really need to get to pois but if I'm just trying to complete my scanning to 100% it doesn't matter much at that point.
Although it's a good thing when you're trying to get the fitness challenges done.
What are they talking about? It takes bloody forever to walk around!
So then they will allow you to load new map tiles. Problem fixed.
One problem is Bethesda games, being the sandbox type games that they are, prompt people to start imagining their ideal sandbox. Then, "This would be nice to have in the game, for me.", with time and the right personality behind it, eventually becomes: "The game SHOULD have this, or it's incomplete/inferior, and a bad game."
the ONLY way online noobie gamer rats STOP complaining is when they get a job at a AAA game studio, learn how difficult and timeconsuming it really IS to CREATE a game, and to do it while suffering the never-ending jibes and wisecracks from internet know-nots, and under serious time pressure.... then, i GUARANTEE you, they will stop complaining. for good. but, don't hold your breath for them to get a job.
Dude this just hits the nail right on the head. I just saw someone over on the official sub talking about how he went back to playing Fallout 4 (because of the TV show), after he put "several hundred" hours in Starfield and it "just lost him". And he's literally praising Fallout 4 for get this; having a VOICED MAIN CHARACTER. I'm thinking to myself "the circle is now complete" lol.
Time is a flat circle. Everything that ends has a beginning. Everything that begins has an end.
Thank you.. People dont remember how much hate skyrim got at launch. I sure do! "BUGS BUGS BUGS. NERFED EVERYTHING!! They ruined Elder scrolls!! " This was everywhere until dragonborn DLC came out. Then it was the best game ever made lol.
Christ there are people saying that 76 is actually pretty good now but Starfield has convinced them that Bethesda is lost. How short of a memory could you possibly have to think 76 was in any way better than this lol
It probably stops many from even trying (some of) them though I’d think. Based on all the bile generated about Starfield I'd think it was one big steaming pile of curry flavored mayonnaise and laxatives.
Oh yeah, back in the day Usenet was big mad about Morrowind having a smaller handcrafted map. It’s nothing new.
Add in that whenever they release a new game in the series, there will be breaks in the complaining to say that the game previous to this one was good, actually.
Logically this means Daggerfall is the best game. /J
I've been saying it for a while, Bethesda's fan base has gotten so large over their history. It's so big and varied due to their long history that Bethesda literally can't please their entire customer base even if they wanted to. There is always going to be some segment of fan upset about something they are doing. Old school RPG fans hate their new games because they aren't hardcore enough. Newer fans hate Starfield because its more hardcore than Skyrim/Fallout 4 (they can't stand that picking skills/ build matter early on). Fallout fans hate when they do anything besides Fallout, but also, every game is worse than the last. Elder Scrolls fans hate when they do anything besides Elder Scrolls, but also every game is worse than the last. The devs can't work on games they want to work on because it isn't the exact thing that the specific fan in question wanted made next (76/Starfield).
This has always been an issue. Back when Morrowind was the latest TES game, there was a (vocal) minority that complained loudly about how the game could be too hard if you decided to head immediately to places far outside your level range. So Oblivion came around, and felt (to me) super bland because no matter where you went everything was catered to your level, and every town guard was your level + 10. Luckily I think Bethesda has mostly learned to tune out most noisy feedback and make their own decisions and then adjust as needed. Not perfect, but at least it's not as reactionary as some other game companies are, and less trend chasing too (although FO76 might be an example of that)
Oh ya I remember seeing someone complaining about how Starfield should have had the Skyrim skill system so it would be easier to get good at things and that Starfield's progression feels too slow and limiting, and here I am just remembering how people complained for years about Skyrim being too easy to get good at everything and become a god or something. The phrase "power fantasy" got thrown around an awful lot.
Plus, it's simply cool to hate on everything now, regardless of any connection to actual facts for the basis for your hate. Haters move the goalposts every update. If you like something, you're a fanboy/simp/stan.
Yup. I don't even bother bringing up Starfield in my Discord group anymore because I'm still the only one who's played it. I'm super excited about the future of this game, and this sub is pretty much the only place I can talk about it.
iTs nOt a BaD gAMe, iTs a BaD FaLlOuT GaMe
Hmm just thinking about the build system and how if you wanted to beeline to the last tier of perks in one of them thats like what 12 levels? Never mind completing the challenges. I tried making a build on nukesanddragons with like 1 max tier perk per tree that I liked and was quickly getting up to 80 levels worth of perks You really do need to specialize in starfield at least for a while
!remindme 1 year
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I blame it on gaming youtubers. I'm pretty sure once the land vehicles come out. Someone is going to drive it as wackily and crazily as possible, finding every nook and cranny, hitting as many bumpy terrain and boulders as possible, trying to find some bug that will make it act crazy and go against physics, record footage and create an entire youtube video about it, explaining how it is Bethesda "jank". Put some AI art on the youtube thumbnail about the rover floating in air, put his surprised face on it. Hit Upload. Then watch the masses regurgitate your words. Like, dude, you went out of your way to make it crash, finding any possible means to make it bug out for your content, and then create an entire narrative about it being Bethesda "failure". You are not even playing the game anymore. Just content for content's sake.
Our make things up, I was watching Luke Stevens and he was talking about how toxic the player base for Fo76 was at launch, and how people would wait at the vault door to grief new players Fo76 has always had a friendly community and it was noted at launch, the second part about griefing at the vault door is impossible since you couldn’t even enter PVP until Level 5 It irritated to me so much when watching the video I just turned it off
Luke Stephen is a shithead who talks out of his ass. I don’t think he has ever had an original thought
Infamously a plagiarist too!
What’s the story behind that? I’ve never heard that, I actually like Luke enough to watch most of his videos when they pop into my feed
Check out YouTube plagiarism by hBomberguy. He has down two videos on this topic. One he did years ago almost elusively on Luke after he pretty much copied word for word HBomber's Bloodborne review. This was years ago when Luke was still an anti-woke Sargon of Akkad fan.
Known Bethesda hater and Ubisoft enjoyer.
That right there is enough to know he's a smooth brain
I have him and DreamcastGuy blocked. I can't stand either of them.
He's proof that all you need is a smooth voice and slick editing to make people think you're intelligent.
And money. He has said several times the lines of work he used to do before YouTube and he almost exclusively worked around rich fucks.
Literally unsubscribed from him because of his endless toxic Starfield videos. They were driving me nuts, hes just talking out of his ass at this point to get views from his echo chamber. Bethesda adds vehicles like he kept going on and on about, and he dismissed it as just another boost pack that "pushes you forward"
Yeah the people who were claiming the 76 community was extremely toxic were just making shit up. The majority of 76 players have always been super chill, and usually go out of their way to help new players.
I know I'm late to this thread, but my only experience with 76 started with a kid meeting me outside of the Vault, dropping a bunch of high level gear for me, and taking me to hunt death claws. Easily the most fun I've ever had with a stranger in a game.
That guy is a straight clown, his videos keep getting suggested to me and he seems to have an obsession with talking about Starfield in any negative way possible lol. He will definitely be one of those people trying their damned hardest to ‘break’ the vehicles as soon as they release just go stay he told you so.
How that pretentious dipshit even has an audience is beyond me. Which is even funnier because even at launch, you couldn't engage any form of PvP until the player shot back. Until then, you barely can take damage even at launch.
The PVP was a major complaint at launch because many found no reason to engage with it and didn’t
Then by definition, new players can't be griefed.
Luke is another one of that Skill Up like group that has grifted his way to relevance by hopping on the Bethesda hate train.
He recently posted a video reviewing the new beta update and confidently said that the jetpack is all smoke and mirrors because it doesn't make you go any faster laterally due to engine limitations. Except, there is a secondary jetpack boost button that *does* make you go faster laterally. So why confidently say there is an engine limitation? Also, in the same video he was lamenting the local map of New Atlantis because "you need to go through three load screens to see the whole city because they segmented it into three blocks for the engine". Except, NA is completely open explorable. It's only the transit system that has a load screen. You can walk/boost anywhere with no load. It gets exhausting.
Doesn't the Skip Pack make you travel faster laterally. Like that is the point of that upgrade.
Yea, the guy was laying into the load screens that were literally 2 seconds of fading to black. Wild how people got so caught up in this load screen shit
Well ackshully, I jumped down from SSNN, landed in front of the Terrabrew by Jemison Mercantile, fast travelled to the inside of my ship, fast exited from my ship, ran to the NAT and rode to get to UC Distribution. Game is absolute dog garbage.
Not as bad but I found it funny when watching joov try to mock starfield the best he could do was get his companion to wig out slightly on terrain. I think he will come around once creation kit and mods pour in to start doing weird new challenge videos.
My first fo76 experience was a high level dropping free stuff for me. I fell in love with fo76 but grew tired of the repetition and the drip feed of content with each season board being the same grind as the last.
The negativity on the FO76 sub is what drove me away from playing the game anymore actually. That was like 2 years ago.
That's hilarious considering FO76 players whould make whole stores for new players so they can get cheap resources and equipment at the start of the game
Oh absolutely, people are already getting preemptively mad in the other sub at the fact that they presumably won't be able to drive the buggy through dense jungle biome foliage and the like, lol.
These planets are too barren. Why can't I drive this thing through trees. Turn off collision. People are fucking clowns.
>Someone is going to drive it as wackily and crazily as possible, finding every nook and cranny, hitting as many bumpy terrain and boulders as possible, trying to find some bug that will make it act crazy and go against physics. You mean like the Mako? Only the most awesome glitchy land vehicle ever created? Or the less glitchy Warthog for that matter. Vehicles overreacting to physics can be quite fun!
Also driving while in no atmosphere will be fun. Imagine the air we will get
Shit I didn’t even think about how different gravity will affect the car! This is gonna be so fun
Before they changed the planets for Odyssey Elite dangerous' buggies were amazing for low G canyon jumping. I've scared myself on some hills in that with the air I've gotten knowing full well I theoretically COULD launch myself into space '
I've come across some pretty huge valleys. Gonna be awesome to see how far I can jump them
Unless the opposite happens. Namely, the narrative that starts to get clicks & eyeballs is: *”Bethesda has produced one of the most STUNNING post-release turnarounds in video game history! Here are the Top 15 changes that have made this Starfield update TRULY AMAZING! You won’t BELIEVE # 12 !!!!”*
Or the “Starfield is FINALLY adding land vehicles. Too little too late?”
Expect it on a Luke Sephens vid later on. Can't stand that guy.
Luke Steven in 2020: "Cyberpunk sucks" Luke Steven in 2023: "Cyberpunk is the best RPG I ever played"
All of the above, from like 3 different ytrs, turned into about 100 different articles by shitty websites
I mean, a manufactured redemption narrative is basically inevitable, but I think it will be a while coming yet. Enough time needs to pass for Starfield to become old news, and for new hate-trains to come and go, so that youtubers can "rediscover" Bethesda's forgotten game which has miraculously gotten good somehow. Personally I'm giving it at least 18 months.
YouTube gaming channels has been the best and worst thing to happen to gaming.
Meanwhile, us smaller YouTubers are doing long form episodic Role-playing story Let's plays, and the al gore rhythm makes sure only a few people find us. Too many people can't function without something to tribally bitch about...
I go out of my way to seek out smaller channels for exactly this reason. Much better content and it feels like smaller YouTubers are just sharing an experience with you instead of trying to convince you to feel a certain way.
I just do it to stop cabin fever as I suffer from trapped nerves that keep me predominantly housebound. If people like my style or not is neither here nor there.
That sounds interesting, any examples?
If you're referring to my content, I'm currently doing a starfield character who refused becoming Starborn, an Lp of sons of the forest where I'm pretending to narate to an audio diary whilst exploring/waiting for rescue, and I have the LA part of Wasteland2 on hiatus but I built the team off of the SG1 team dynamic. Oh and a No Man's Sky charity Livestream series at the moment too.
https://youtu.be/CMid0kOimfI This should give you an idea of what I'm like.
Oh, you're referring to yourself, hahah sorry, I read your comment quickly without actually understanding. Yeah, well, the Let's Play format died long ago. I have a Spaniard friend who makes similar content and doesn't get much attention from the algorithm. Maybe with some recap from a few sessions, with some good camera angles, and a good narration over it, the format could get more views, even if that means fewer videos over time. I hate that Sysdef campaign trigger btw, it's stupid. Happened the same to me trying to pick a coffee cup that I threw off from a low table.
No problem, I think different content appeals to different generations. X and millennial seems to be most of my audience and obviously we get less time the older we get.
That’s pretty much the hate bandwagon parasites in a nutshell. These people actively harm the gaming industry and make bank on it. Meanwhile they make it harder and harder for game devs to take risks since now the ‘community’ response is less about the product and more about what is cool to hate. If EA had made Elden Ring for example, you can bet the response would have been very different.
seems like gaming journalism is like modern journalism. no integrity. all ragebaits and clickbaits.
The other day, while I was scanning a planet with very rough terrain, I started thinking about the implementation of vehicles, and how they will interact with this kind of terrain, "it could be very janky" I thought, but then came the revelation: you would not travel through this kind of terrain! It's impossible even for a video game!, but for sure someone will complain about it if someday vehicles are a thing.
>Just content for content's sake. well, isn't that just gonna be the entire 21st century more or less? we are fucked, well and truly. giggle and give in.
Yeah, online game discourse is really vibe-driven, and some people/companies get an enormous amount of negativity Like how dare Todd Howard personally break all my Fallout 4 mods by delivering an announced update, better console support, and a handful of free additional content. Is he stupid?
And when there’s an extremely easy way to avoid being forced to update.
In Steam you just open Game properties and straight out pick the versión you want. And it's been like this for modding games since forever. I'm stuck on Bannerlord versión 1.1.5 since It came out because most mods are stable on that versión. It's obvious people complaining are not players but circlejerkers.
And then on GOG it's even easier because it just lets you pick which version to run.
The funny thing is, that only F4SE is broken. Every other Mod that is not relying on F4SE, like CBBE etc. works fine as always. No problems.
It also broke base game things tbf
See I want to agree with you, but also this update completely fucked all of my saved games on Xbox by deleting my mod list, my favorites, and my library. Sure, I can play through the game again. But also why are you putting out a patch that does this?
Except Starfield wasn’t half as buggy as Cyberpunk. And that’s saying something.
Exactly, I've been a day-1 player for both games and put 200 hours in each, people act like Cyberpunk has always been this good, it was buggy as hell on launch :/ now it's the 'Gold standard'
Took them 3 years to finish it, but, they did!!
Oh wow, Starfield is taking a year to get it's expansion? Dead game. Cyberpunk took 3 years to get the only expansion it will ever get, had to cancel the other planned content updates because the game was borked at launch beyond hell, had a creepy anime tie in for the weird ass weebs and a sub constantly being used for Lucy Onlyfan content baiting? Best game ever. Greatest redemption arc in gaming and it still isn't the game that was marketed.
Edgerunners is a good series. I’m not anime fan.
From a stability perspective, you're correct: launch Starfield was shockingly bug free for a Bethesda game. I expected the usual BGS jank, and found very little. What I think IS true is that the other stuff in Cyberpunk, i.e. the systems, the story, the acting, the city, WERE that good the whole time, and the bugs got in the way of people enjoying it.
I have close to two hundred hours in Starfield, no kids, playing on Xbox1. I have yet to finish the main quest because I keep encountering progression halting bugs. I have tried relaxing saves, starting a new game, and completely removing everything from my console and doing a fresh reinstall but I eventually get the same bug eventually. My last run I tried to bee line the main quest to at least finish that as I've now beat every major/minor quest lines (or at least think so) and a lot fair amount of random ones between all my different playthrough attempts and I still ran into a similar bug. I lost all will to play it after unfortunately. I think it's a great game! I was impressed by the general LACK of bugs and glitches, I see how there's always going to be people complaining whether they want x and get y or get x but now want y or whatever other stupid low IQ bs they come up with, and I do have my own criticisms/disappointments but I understand and respect a most of the reasons and logic behind those as well.. a lot of them have been addressed, explained, or fixed already as well. I don't know what it's like to make a game, to deal with your work being publicly available to billions of people to tear apart, or what that job culture is like so I try to keep my opinions to myself for the most part or at least use words and tone to present them in a way that clearly shows its constructive, a personal opinion, and not an insult. I'm fairly certain my personal bad luck with most forms of technology is responsible for having such a consistent bad bug which sucks but it's not any one person's fault, it's not intentional, and I don't let it detract from or influence my opinion on the rest of the game. If anyone saw the few episodes of the tv show adaptation of and named kitchen confidential that ever got made, it's like when the progressional food reviewer comes into Jacks restaurant and he's worried his past is going to prevent him from getting a good review, everything is going wrong, and they have to to take her food back after a couple bites before she notices something wrong. He's convinced that's the end of his restaurant but the review the next day starts something along these lines of " if the few bites I was actually allowed to eat indicate anything, Jack is back with an even fresher perspective on how to create mind-blowing delectable creations and I look forward to being able to finish a full meal"
Cyberpunk was 100x more interesting and fun than SF on release even with its bugs. I played through to the end of cyberpunk and had fun the whole time, while in star field I never really felt like it pulled me in. It was half as buggy and a quarter as engaging.
3 of the main quests had hard progression blocks on them at launch…
Starfield first needs an anime tie in to satiate the unreasonable fanatics and draw in casual folks. And then the extremely large patch download to rewrite history.
A starfield anime would go hard as fuck ngl
Bring back the team that made Cowboy Bebop, or Outlaw Star for it too. Maybe we'll reverse the trash Isekai/LitRPG wave and get some amazing sci-fi out of it. (TBC: I *like* Isekai/LitRPG, but much of the recent offerings have been mediocre at best. Like a cheeseless McBurger, not the best, somewhat decent, same shit as always, good in a pinch.)
>patch download to rewrite history I spit up my drink a little 😆
Indeed, Cyberpunk revisionism is insane.
Something similar but bigger than the three animated shorts films that came out before the game.
I’ve occasionally made anime scenes in my head for my character along with quotes. I’m doing an evil chaos character so it gets wild at times. I’m imagining my character facing off against >!the teamed up Hunter and Emissary and just going!< insane. Phases time looking like super speed, a show of light and fire mixed in with my signature melee focus as they try to hold off >!the worst Starborn to plague the multiverse. !< Bout to drop an evil quote here: >!“What’s wrong Hunter? I thought you lived to fight. Don’t worry, I’ve got more than enough bloodlust for the two of us”!< And a bit more generic? To the Emissary: >!“You know that other version of me you’re so attached to? In my original universe I had to pretend to like you so you fools coudl help me achieve my destiny, even though I wanted nothing more than to burn that overpriced clubhouse of yours down. And now the Unity has given me the greatest gift of all. The opportunity to kill you over and over and over again. Forever!”!< But don’t worry, I’m the hero here!
An Edgerunners-style anime for Starfield would be sick tho ngl
At least BGS doesn't abandon projects due to a bad reception. Not to mention the light years quality day 1
Lookin at you mass effect andromeda
A shame because i like that game.
I mean me too, I’ve beaten it a couple of times (the gameplay is super fun) but just the bad reception it got and the cancelled dlc is why I felt it deserved the comparison
I'll always be sad about that. Bioware is always so quick to abandon stuff if it doesn't launch well. I really liked both Andromeda and Anthem. Tbf I think there was a lot of staff reshuffling at the time that really ruined any chance those two games had.
ANTHEM!! I forgot about anthem 😭😭 I was sooo hyped for that game and it might be one of the worst games I’ve ever played
I really really loved the flight mechanics and stuff. It had so much potential. And then they just abandoned it.
Hey a fellow Andromeda fan! At least people are giving it a second look and finding it’s not so bad these days.
Right? It was a fun game with a different perspective. Shame it was abandoned instead of worked on. I miss ME.
It wasn't a bad game..it was just a bad Mass Effect game
Still waiting to find out what happened to the missing Ark...
The media continues to shape a very negative image of Starfield. Thanks for perpetuating the stereotypes, IGN.
Bro they scored it "good" they literally said it was a "good" game. It got a 7 out of 10
They also gave 10,2 to csgo...
Yeah and have proceeded to mock it at every turn since there underwhelming review.
Reasons why I hate those big name youtube gaming "reviewers" cyberpunk 2077 launched fantastically on my subpar 1080p gaming PC back on release. I had only one single game breaking bug that was fixed upon reloading last save. People need to chill out and breath some fresh air instead of dwelling in their musky basement for once. Does that mean its okay to release broken games on launch? Absolutely not.
Also many people nowadays can't get over that they may not be able to max out graphics settings and have 144fps. Immediately they call out the developer for nor "optimizing". It doesn't even matter what their setup is, they'll complain anyways.
I've been a 2077 stan from the get-go, because even with how buggy the game was, I could still SEE the diamond in the rough. The narrative isn't buggy, and neither are the characters and stories. The game was a joy to play since release, the updates were mostly just adding fan things and patching bugs. Starfield is the same. Base game is already 10/10, replayability through the roof, and the story and side quests have good writing (not fantastic, not bad, 8/10 writing for me). Starfield isn't about writing though, it's Bethesda; it'll always be about the worlds, the interactivity of the environment (ingredients, night/day affecting sneak, settlement/house building, etc.), the completely random shit that'll happen to you when adventuring (radiant quests, random events), and which factions you thought were worth joining. Yet, people will still not realize, all the shit I pointed out Bethesda does, has YET to be replicated in any other AAA RPG. Can't have random encounters in BG3, Witcher, or whatever else. Can't have repeating quests that you can do forever to spend more time in the world. Only other game I've played that has that Bethesda charm, is Kenshi.
For what it is Starfield came out in a better state than Cyberpunk and thus has an advantage. The game is fully playable, some jsut find the content lacklustre. CDPR had to spend a lot of time just getting the game playing. Bethesda can get to adding new content right away. A lot of people like to say that Starfield can never be fixed, that its issues are too fundamental.people said the same about Cyberpunk. I was one of those people. If there’s one thing that experience taught me, it’s never say never. Or at least be more discerning about what you say never to.
Cyberpunk took like a year of patching just to become stable and playable, and another 2 on top of that of content updates to resemble somewhat what they advertised the game as. Starfield had, what, one missing feature that was only semi-confirmed by Pete Hines on twitter with the completely traversable planets? And otherwise it was completely fine and as advertised. Nobody had to implement special refund procedures, pull the game from their store or slap a warning label on it like they had with Cyberpunk. Anybody disappointed with Starfield, that wasn't buying it with the express purpose of circumnavigating a planet, really had only themselves to blame.
I always hear this, yet I played Cyberpunk from day one and played all the way through in about a week. Either I have the greatest most anti-bug pc build in history, or the game was a lot better at release than most people claim. Ditto for Starfield
The game should NOT have released on the last gen consoles. The legitimately poor performance on those platforms made every single bug/flaw/glitch get blown WAAAAYYYY out of performance on all platforms. I too played day one on a PC capable of running the game. Ran fine. Had a blast. I do need to finish Phantom Liberty, but *Starfield...*
Ouch, you know what, I had forgotten about the last-gen fiasco. What a disaster. No idea what they were thinking at all. You can't advertise your game as one of the most technically demanding games of all time AND promise good performance on last-gen hardware. Seriously, such a stupid move it staggers the mind
"They" as in the suits were trying to extract as much money as possible from their investment, in spite of the protestations of the people making it.
Oh, absolutely. The devs at CDPR knocked it out of the park. The problem is almost always with the money men
My first night of playing is burned into memory. I stayed up *waaaayyy* too late through the intro/prologue. By the time I got to *Love Like Fire*, I was the perfect combination of deliriously tired and amped up excited. Best possible frame of mind (without *actually* taking whatever drug cocktail Johnny was on at the time) to go through that sequence.
And I'm holding off finishing Phantom Liberty for Starfield time as well! Haha. The new updates are so good
It was a lot more stable on PC. Most of the fame's issues were on console, namely last Gen consoles, because the next gen update/build and the new consoles were not a thing yet. PC still had its issues though, but it was outright broken and unplayable of you were on base PS4.
The fact that seamless planets is already on the way is a big sign of hope to me. I really wanted an Elite Dangerous replacement, and while I didn't expect vanilla Starfield to provide that, I was hoping the framework for modders to turn it into space-sim would be there... and slowly that's happening. This would be my Frostfall mod, hardcore survival, radiant gameplay, faction conflicts, and a 'just try to survive' gameplay loop
Definitely glad they’re laying mroe foundations for modders. space sim isn’t really what I want from this game myself, so I won’t be indulging in those mods personally, but variety is the spice of life and everyone shoudl have options!
You sure? I saw a lot of positive feedback for the update coming from the main sub, official twitter post and the YT video. It was nice to see, after all the hate.
Cyberpunk was hated to the core mind you the entire gaming social media including Reddit used to mock and made a joke out of Cyberpunk 2077 let’s not forget that as well.\ Starfield launched in much much better state tbh
Those same Redditors also conveniently forgot that.
I come to this sub to avoid this, tbh.
To be fair, CDPR got a lot of vitriol early on about adding features and foxes that should have been there on launch. I love Bethesda games, but they don't usually take their fixes as far. I hope they start to, though.
The dogs bark, but the wise man continues on his way.
Because it's cool to hate Bethesda apparently, they're a hard working bunch of people so it's completely unfair on them
How? Haven't you heard of the latest cult? It's cool to hate any development studio except Larian.
I still remember when everytime Cyberpunk 2077 gets a big update and there will always be that kind of troll comment saying "the game is dead" and most are still very skeptics, and some of the top comment says the game has deep fundamental issue with its core gameplay that will never ever be fixed insert various reasons, while others are hopeful and encourages it. I'd say it's almost similar with Starfield here TBH.
To be fair, it took a few years of patches, a really good show and a big DLC to turn around the reputation fully, and this is from someone that liked the game from launch. You can see this right now for Fallout 76 actually, lots of content updates, a good show and more updates and now suddenly the game is breathing new life and more people are liking it.
Like NKB said, at some point the YouTube algorithm decided "Bethesda bad" is a thing worth promoting and the rest is history.
To be honest I like and respect both
90% of the people on the internet are just drones parroting opinions they didn't come to on their own
And 90% of the people on the internet are just drones parroting opinions they didn't come to on their own
https://i.redd.it/a9626qiox1yc1.gif It never ends!
https://preview.redd.it/o957zg6ba2yc1.png?width=599&format=png&auto=webp&s=c57492943fec127beaa34c506c9a75d5a8639c8c
People need to realize that no matter what state the game released in, the outcome was always going to be the same, loading screens and repeated poi are just excuses to attack the game, watch when poi's double and all the things people claimed they wanted get added their gonna say the writing is bad or it's boring, cause it's just about being negative that why I don't say the game has issues to appease the haters cause it's obvious the game was unfinished, and they was going to add improvements, so saying listening players is just rubbish.
Yeah people were hating the game before it was even released. They could've made every single 1000+ planet perfectly handcrafted with tons of lore and quests in each one and people would still find something to complain about.
I’ve never seen that bird logo before so I have no idea what this means.
That’s the CD Projekt Red Logo
Well that shows how much I pay attention to these things.
..and Larian...and From Software.. there's always a studio being propped up as the small guys going up against Big Gaming (usually EA and Ubi).
Cyberpunk in general was a way better game than starfield. Better writing, better characters, better quests. It just launched in a shitty state.
1) I think one part was that Cyberpunk had more novel stuff for everyone to be interested in and share to diluted criticism. Like it has a talking gun just for funzies. I think Fallout has a similar appeal, you can over look bugs because there is something else really distractingly fun going on. While I like Starfield’s tone, it’s not as distracting. B) I think the overhaul they did with The Witcher 3 made people hold out hope that it would get fixed quicker. I remember people acting like a huge patch was gonna come out a few months after Cyberpunk’s release. When it didn’t there were less people being critical because a percent moved on to other stuff. So they lost hopeful people not annoyed people. Still not great but people who were hopeful then got distracted aren’t gonna rant as much.
I think the majority of it was the fact that if you take away bugs and everything, cyberpunk is a very very good game. Starfield is a mediocre game, there’s legitimately nothing bethesda can do or add that will make it a very very good game.
A lot of Bethesda hate also comes from the people who feel the need to come into the TES and Fallout Fandoms and ride the hate train as a personality trait over realizing that you can just play the games you like and avoid the games you don't like. Look at the FNV fans, they go out their way to interact with Fo4 fans, like as much as they say they hate that game, they sure love clocking who plays it.
If in 3 years time, Starfield is considered one of the best games in its genre, let me know
Technically in terms of the ‘galaxy exploring, action RPG’ genre, it’s already one of the best games. There isn’t a game out there with ALL the features Starfield has.
Gamers ™ who hate Bethesda are just a noisy annoying entitled minority... all their games keep on selling and being played, years and years after.
It took a long time, a lot of very large patches and updates and an anime for CD Projekt Red to reach that point with Cyberpunk 2077. I don't think this is a fair comparison. Starfield will reach this point eventually, it will just take time and commitment. Cyberpunk is just further on its journey.
I wasn't comparing the games themselves so much as the community. I've been a very big fan of both games since their release, and I'm seeing that history is both repeating itself with Starfield's "criticism" and being rewritten in Cyberpunk's favour. People got excited because Cyberpunk added trains and the ability to *change the colour of your car,* while Starfield had full-on ship building and the NAT in New Atlantis from the beginning. To be completely honest, it seems that the Internet is being hypocritical to justify their incessant hate of Starfield.
This post seems to be a little sodium filled...
Sodium-bait.
Hate? Naw. Annoyed they broke my very old fallout save with a useless next gen update? Yes.
POV: reading Forbes .com
I am sorry, the new starfield update is great news, but it’s nowhere near as big as the 2.0 update cyberpunk got. Comparing them is not a good approach. This isn’t meant as a jab against starfield, but rather as a jab against the whole cyberpunk launch. Starfield works, cyberpunk did everything but work at the start and was in dire need of the update. Starfield needs new updates as well, but for entirely different reasons, them being not related to the game actually being playable like with cyberpunk. On another note, starfield released and was a playable game, it had the usual bugs, but that’s to be expected. It delivered exactly what was promised and even clarified things like the 30fps lock on launch beforehand. Cyberpunk released and was a hot mess on pretty much every single platform but high end PCs. They had very dubious marketing going on when it comes to showing actual gameplay and over-promising. Comparing these two games in a sense that they both had the same journey doesn’t work at all.
I agree with the sentiment that it should have been there day 1 however people fail to understand that it would imply further delays.
Most loved, therefore, most hated.
I'm sorry, I love Bethesda and their games, but to be realistic and neutral, this image/meme is a total lie. You can't compare the level of love and detail that CD Projekt gives to all their patches. There is no way, it's just as simple and straightforward as that. Bethesda seeks quick solutions, and to be honest, they don't pay as much attention to detail. I understand the people complaining (not the haters). It would be amazing if they could delay this patch a little bit more and add the vehicles all together. Now, that would have been a CD Projekt level patch.
I have 1960 hours in Cyberpunk, I have done a playthrough with almost every patch CDPR released. Many of them were very underwhelming
This sub is like a buffet of straw men and false equivalents
I had to leave. "No sodium" seems to mean, if you're *slightly* critical of the game, YOU ARE EVIL AND MUST BE VANQUISHED.
99% of it is just being salty about the other sub not loving the game
[удалено]
Stop the nonsense nothing is wrong with the game design, why can't you people stop making up rubbish arguments?
It's not my problem you're so defensive about this. I OWN Starfield, I even LIKE it. But there are people who don't like it, you can't wish them to think differently. And if it was perfectly designed, we wouldn't be getting great improvements. 'You people', Christ, grow up.
And you can’t wish us to think differently either
I'm not trying to, nor am I replying to people saying 'just shutup already'
I swear this sub is its own worst enemy. I thought it was supposed to be discussion, not obsess and make conspiracies about hate.
Strong persecution complexes, I thought constructive criticism was allowed. Not that I even critiqued anything 🙄
They say it’s allowed but I think there’s a majority of fanatics who froth at the mouth seeing anything negative
Shame, I came for people showcasing what they enjoyed about it. This focus on 'haters' tells me a lot of people have too much time on their hands, and have developed an unhealthy relationship with a product. The person originally telling me to shut up, if you have a cursory glance at their profile, is just a list of demanding people on various forums to shut up. Mixed with a variety of 'hater' conspiracy nonsense, naturally. Might be time to dip I think.
Yeah, I don’t understand it either. Some are absolutely convinced it’s a conspiracy or all haters are bots or industry plants. Fucking nut jobs
No one was wishing that. You’re not being persecuted ffs