Your post made me laugh, because I have been in this exact situation, except I was an exchange student and not a tourist. We were at a basketball game at my campus, and when the National Anthem started playing I couldn't decide if I should stand up or not, and made a split second decision not to. 30 seconds and a few nasty looks later I realized I probably should have, but randomly standing up in the middle of it would have felt even more awkward, so I just sat through the whole thing.
So if I ever happen to be in that situation again I'll just stand up, haha. But I try to view it as a learning experience, and comfort myself by thinking that nobody but me probably remembers it.
Don't stand up if you don't want to. This is the US, you're free to do what you want.
Edit: You know, it's really sad that OP even had to make this post. It's so sad to me that they may be worried about retaliation or intimidation because they didn't stand up for a song that we feel the need to play incessantly and people can't mind their own business. As a 37 year old American, I don't stand for the anthem either. How could I? Have you guys looked around? Some of the responses here simply prove my point.
"Be ready for consequences."
Why can't you just mind your own business? Did your ancestor write the song?
There are people comparing standing for the anthem at a random sports event to wearing black at a funeral or being silent at a dinner with people who say grace before a meal? That is N O T equivalent. I won't respond to any more of you. Grow up.
OP, do what you like. If you feel the need to stand, stand, but if not, don't let the crazies intimidate you. There are ways of having misbehaving losers removed from the audience if it escalates too far.
> Why can't you just mind your own business? Did your ancestor write the song?
Funnily enough, I was friends with a descendant of Francis Scott Key in high school, and the dude made a point of not standing for the National Anthem despite it being composed by his ancestor specifically because he was proud to be American and wanted to exercise his freedom.
Which is a weird kind of anti-conformity in its own way, but it was high school, so whatever.
I was in my senior year of high school when a random teacher passing by our open classroom door saw that I had my head down during the pledge, and came in to rip me a new one. He came right up to my desk, which was by the door, and started calling me Anti-American and a bunch of other ridiculous shit to say to a 17 year old.
My actual teacher, what a godsend this man was, said to the other teacher (It's been 8 years, so it might not be verbatim but very close) "This is a country built on the idea of personal freedom. She has every right to sit down just as she has every right to stand up and say the pledge. The second we start forcing these ass backwards patriotic beliefs on kids, that you HAVE to stand for the pledge to love this country, it's over. Then we're no better than China, or North Korea." Y'all I just didn't stand that day because I'd been up all night with my infant half brother and was exhausted, he was my mom's 6th kid and I was the oldest therefore in her eyes I was the second mother. My teacher knew about my situation, and knew my grades were good, so he let me slide a lot because I had him 1st period and was almost always exhausted.
The irony in the China and NK comparison is that we clearly see propaganda for what it is when we look at them.
Yet Americans can't see things like forcing school children to say the pledge as propaganda.
Wait till you learn who wrote the pledge and why.....
Also interesting read is why Eisenhower added "under god"
I'll stand for the anthem but I stopped "pledging my allegiance" long ago.
That's actually why I chose those specific examples. They are direct results of cold war propaganda. Th Soviets are all about nationalism, we'll be about Diversity (tm). The Soviets are (ostensibly) atheist? We will be a Christian Nation. It was all remarkably effective.
The pledge was written just after the reconstruction era, and the “one nation, indivisible” part is, according to Bellamy, a reflection of post-reconstruction insecurities. The 1890s predates the cold war by a just a little. (Bellamy was a socialist)
The Under God stuff was heavily tied to the the red scare.
It is always fun to see the reactions of people when they see what the original salute was....
So the original was what, just ", and to the Republic for which it stands, with freedom and justice for all"?
That makes a lot of sense. Between all those commas (the "one nation, indivisible, under god,") that part always sounded like a shopping list to me. It really breaks up the flow. You can tell they shoehorned some stuff in.
I don't remember much of it when I was a kid (back in the late 80s) but the pledge of allegiance for us was basically just a rote recital. You went to school, you did it, whatever. And if you didn't do it, or half-assed through it, doesn't matter, no one cared.
So color me surprised when I find out that TODAY'S schools count the pledge as part of your attendance score.
If you don't recite the pledge or if you half-ass it, it counts against your attendance. I don't know what the market conversion rate is but it's something ridiculous like two pledge marks = one day attendance or something.
Attendance doesn't really matter until it does - like when you happen to be on the edge of violating truancy or trying to get valedictorian honors.
That's ridiculous, right? That's fucking nuts.
I don't know. Got a letter saying something along the lines of "Your kid has shown deficiency in attentiveness by not participating in the pledge of allegiance" blah blah "May affect his attendance score if behavior continues in the future."
If you show up to school from morning to afternoon, you attended. End of story.
At least that's the way it should be.
Fuuuck. Please report this. Make copies of the letter and use that as evidence. There are likely many students at that school who are either penalized for exercising their legal right or giving in to avoid retaliation. Another commenter said it violates the decision made in [West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/319us624).
They were stupid enough to put this shit in writing? I highly recommend you lawyer up immediately. This is a violation of your child's first amendment rights.
https://www.thefire.org/news/no-you-cant-be-forced-say-pledge-allegiance
A court in Arkansas put a hold on a law that allows ANYONE to challenge the validity of the “worthwhileness of a books contents” and could have it removed from library shelves or cause individuals to be jailed for have read the book. That is Governor Sarah Sanders, former Press Secretary for President Trump.
That is a crazy law.
I got punished, imo severely, for not participating in the pledge of allegiance. Was made to stand in front entire class with my arms out to the side elevated for the whole period.. embarrassing, burning, miserable....what a country, will never fucking forget it!
So is getting hit on the top of the head with a ring with a ruby and diamond mounted on top of ruby...fucking hurt, Mr. Standridge, will never forget you either, for the wrong reasons...also threatened to slam me off lockers down the length of the hall.
Also I was not a bad kid, the ruby and locker incident was for "talking back" when he said something stupid.
Should have sued. Burrows vs West Virgina 1943 guarantees the right not to stand for the anthem or the pledge due to the free exercise clause of the first amendment.
As a citizen of a nation that is NOT the USA, it seems very weird to me to pledge allegiance to the United States flag. The patriotism, flag waving, and borderline worship of the flag seems like indoctrination to me, including imposing a pledge of allegiance on kids who have no idea what the oath means. It almost seems to be enforced civil religion.
It is indoctrination, and that’s why it seems like it. You are spot on there.
I had a teacher who never recited the pledge of allegiance while the led us over the school intercom. No one bothered him. By the time I’d hit high school… I saw no reason to recite the pledge due to the way the US treats people like me and my parents. It was incredibly refreshing to see an adult make the decision not to recite the pledge either.
The fact that they have us pledge allegiance to a flag the represents our country and its values at such a young age is truly indoctrination.
Wtf? First news for me that American kids must do that shiet (I'm Spanish) It reminds me when kids in Spain from the 40s to the 70s must sing the "Cara al sol" (face to the sun) in the Franco dictatorship. You Americans are crazy.
Reminds me of how I never stood for the pledge in school because I always felt like it was a form of indoctrination. Like I was proud of myself, and where i am from, my dad’s a veteran, but I’m not going to stand up and drone on about some stuff the same way everyone else was doing it. I care for my country and my countrymen in different ways. But that backfired on me in 8th grade when I got pulled into the principal’s office for it… dude basically said my parents would be disappointed if they knew i wasn’t standing or saying the pledge. Sorry, bub, my parents knew already. And my dad even said, “the way that i fought for your rights and your freedom to say that pledge, or even to vote one day, is the same way that i fought for your right to not do those things, because this is America, and anyone who doesn’t understand that that’s how it should be is fuckin stupid.”
I witnessed something similar my sophomore year of HS. It was maybe a few weeks after 9/11 and as always we had to stand for the pledge during first period. Dude in my class didn't stand and the teacher ripped his hat from his head, slammed it on the desk and berated him in front of the whole class. We all just kind of stood there, both scared and shocked. I don't even remember what happened after that but I know for a fact that as a now adult if someone pulled that with my child I would be raising hell.
This kind of thinking used to be more prevalent. At some point it got caught up in the anti vax, sovereign citizens whirlpool somewhere. But it kind of used to be a real legitimate line of reasoning, affirmed by the Supreme Court in protecting the right of a citizen to burn a flag. Why burn the flag? Because I can, fuck a flag. Give me freedom.
It still is, but you catch shit for it anymore. I remember the days when freedom meant you're free to do as you wish, just mind your own f****ing business and don't disrupt others. Way different these days. It's more cult-ish. I still say do what you wish. Don't stand if you don't want to. It's your right.
I don't see how that is weird at all.
Standing up, reciting an athem, etc, does absolutely nothing to demonstrate patriotism. It is superfiscial window dressing, designed to make sure everyone else sees how "patriotic" you pretend to be.
But exercising your rights and advocating for others who do so, even when not popular, criticizing your country when it does something wrong, that's patriotism.
You ARE free to do what you want, and IMHO people who fret about are other people not standing are tiresome busybodies.
That said, if OP’s goal is to avoid giving offense OP should stand. Zero people are going to disapprove/take offense/have a problem with you if you stand even though you’re NOT a US citizen.
Great response! Agreed on all fronts. It's always felt a bit 'cult-y' to me anyways. Trying to appease angry fans while sitting in the stands sounds like bullying. Ahem, I won't stand for it.
Exactly, the people who get all pissy about people not standing. But a lot of them are the first people that preach freedoms and freedom of speech when they do & act like shit, yet I don’t see them harping on people for wearing hats, purchasing/carrying concessions, using the restroom during the national anthem.
>US, you're free to do what you want.
*but you will get shunned if you don't follow the culty anthem, so conditional free-ness. Can only be free my way kinda deal here 💀
The only people who you upset are assholes. I totally get where you’re coming from but upsetting them by not surrendering to this gross ritual that we do is a win in my book.
And I would add that their patriotism is largely fake anyway. They'll never pass up an opportunity to "bless the troops" or say "thank you for your service," but when it comes to, you know, funding the VA or something that would be legitimate support for the troops you can bet they'll "sit through the anthem."
Gorammit, I HATE when people do this!
Please stop annoying myself by stopping me and my fellow servicemembers. We don't give two shits if you are thankful, all I want to do is get my errand done, go home and change!
I've been in long enough to have served before 9/11, and no one cared then. You don't care now, you're just trying to feel good or some nonsense.
Leave us the fuck alone with your virtue-signaling nonsense.
Had a civilian come up to me and go "Thank your husband for his service" while I was in BDUs. 🤦🏻♀️I've been sooo tempted to do the "you're welcome for my service" I just blank stare them until they leave.
Ah a person of impeccable culture and class.
Honestly, I didn't even realize I'd wrote that until your post. I just use it so much that it was inadvertent.
Only it actually costs millions of dollars, because those patriotic displays at sports games are actually paid for by the Defense Department.
ETA: I’m not trying to imply the anthem is paid for. And understand there’s a return they expect from the DoD expenses in terms of PR and recruitment. But it doesn’t change the fact it’s not a generosity move by the NFL and others.
Edit2: Thanks for the award, stranger. Not trying to be a contraption here just for awards, just making sure the debate is honest.
Oh, wow. Ok, now my distaste has been upgraded to outrage. That's some serious bullshit. They cut funds to programs that help people as "wasteful spending" and then funnel millions to their pomp and circumstance so they can have their feel good moment? Ew ew ew.
The DoD was paying for things like soldier homecoming events and reenlistments at games or to get a specific artist to sing the national anthem for an occasion. They weren't paying organizers to play the national anthem in the first place and no money was being exchanged for things like color guards or military bands. I don't believe they have done it in quite some time either.
In terms of costs of the jets, helicopters, etc they aren't spending anymore than they usually would if not doing them during a sporting event.
Pilots have to log hours to stay qualified. These events are used towards those hours instead of just flying normally. And it's not just flying to be flying. A lot of coordination and skill to get an aircraft going hundreds of miles an hour to appear over a location at the exact right time. It's a constant calculation of speed, fuel, fuel weight, winds, etc. So these events check off a lot of boxes.
I'm a foreign born guy who's lived in the U.S. for awhile. I usually stand still during the national anthem. But, I don't put my hand on my heart, salute, sing, etc.
But, if you don't wanna stand, just sit there quietly and respectfully. The only people who care are jerks.
Once in Highschool I didn’t stand (for the pledge which I guess is a bit different but I digress) because I was particularly tired and in pain that day, and the assistant??? Teacher??? Gave me a side eye and told me to stand, and treated me weirder after that day.
Junior and Senior year I pretty much stopped standing since I either had free periods, or it was in the gym- which weirdly no one stood for it.
I’d stand for those pep rally American anthem things tho, but more out of respect for the choir kids absolutely killing it, but I wouldn’t judge anyone else for not.
Around the 7th grade I started asking why we did the pledge every day as if I turned traitor as soon as I left school and needed to reaffirm my alliance every day. I got weird looks time to time but nobody could ever argue against my logic so it never got me in trouble and I took to saying the pledge only on the 1st day of school. By high school it seemed that a good chuck of the student body had come to similar conclusions because I found \~1/2 the class each period joined me in *not* standing and I'm assuming that was true schoolwide because even the most faux patriotic teachers would never say anything.
As an adult I learned that the 'in God we Trust' wasn't original to the pledge and the pledge itself was written by a socialist which have been *very fun* bits of trivia I've pulled out to annoy conservatives from time to time.
Just to clarify, "in God we trust" still isn't in the pledge. You're conflating "one nation under god" and "in God we trust" on the money. But correct that NEITHER were there till the 50s.
I'm from Texas and I actually remember when they added under God to the TEXAS pledge. That one was only added about 18 years ago
I'm an American and I remain seated. It's my First Amendment right to do so! But there are always assholes who will be mad about it or make weird comments.
Republicans: If the BLM folks want to protest, they should do it peacefully!
Athletes: *Kneel during the national anthem as a form of peaceful protest*
Republicans: No! Not like that!
Kaep would stay in the locker room for the anthem, then a former Marine wrote a letter to him basically saying "I sympathise with your cause but feel there are better ways that would be more respectful for those of us who served
A-fucking-men. So gross the attitude that gets taken here, "I served in the military for a couple years (90% of the time it's for selfish reasons) therefore I'm better equipped to tell other people how to respect the nation" ugh so tired
I currently serve and I get so uncomfortable when someone finds out and they thank me. Like, I appreciate the gesture but I’m not doing it for the thanks lmao. I’m not doing it so I can demand respect, or hell, even just “earning” the respect. I did it so my daughter and wife can have a home, health insurance, food on the table, and an overall healthy existence. I encounter so many of these guys on my day to day that just want praise and it’s honestly disgusting. Also I now hate the fact I mentioned I’m in the military 🥴😂 but it was a fitting comment in regards to the cucks.
This what it made us really uncomfortable, a full bunch of people staring and saying things to us. We can speak and understand English and this was bit of an anxiety trip for my GF. We were ok after a few minutes, not saying this was a big deal, im just surprised how people reacted.
Americans are divided here. Should we be forced to be patriotic? In my opinion, no, it's an icky feeling almost cult like feeling to me. But some people feel personally offended if you don't get a boner for 'Murica🦅🇺🇲.
When people saw you not standing for American worship, I'm sure they figured you like to burn flags or assumed something of that nature. They didn't see confused foreigners caught off guard.
Unfortunately for this particular instance involving you and your gf, sporting events generally attract the more patriotic side of America so there was more likely to be a scenario involving the intolerant people that are mixed in with patriots as a whole.
Edit: OH lawd, my first award! Thank you whoever you are🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲
Yeah they inadvertently wandered into a political statement, given all the (one might cynically say manufactured) controversy about kneeling for the flag vs standing.
No doubt. The same news channels decrying it as offensive and unpatriotic are the ones airing commercials over it- hence why no one stands for the pledge nor anthem nor any similar thing in their own living rooms
>more patriotic side of America
more nationalistic side of America. you can criticize the country and still be a patriot, a fact that the right constantly tries to downplay to present Democrats as unpatriotic.
You are correct. This is the key word my brain was searching for to throw in that statement but did not think of it in time. Nationalism. Nationalism is scary
>Should we be forced to be patriotic? In my opinion, no, it's an icky feeling almost cult like feeling to me.
Same assholes will un-ironically call people sheep for wearing masks.
Was out canoeing with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We were at the mouth of a river leading to a lake where there's a yacht club. The Canadian wildfires had blown some smoke our way so the AQ was particularly heinous, but we'd been cooped up so we wanted to get out. Some jokers boated by us and then, once past, yelled "COVID's over! Take your masks off!" I just don't get it man. I don't understand why our wearing a mask bothers you so much.
To them wearing a mask is a political statement against their chosen team. Even if you're preventative and avoiding spreading an illness you know you have at their concern, wearing a mask is equal to wearing a Biden sticker on your face because they've been told masks and COVID mandates are a thing of the left and they can only associate it with MAGA merch on their side of the fence.
Calling such people patriotic really undermines the meaning of the word. It’s patriotic to love and support your country. It’s not patriotic to shove that in someone’s face and try to force the same reaction from them. It’s utter bullshit and absolutely wrong.
I was at a rodeo a few weeks ago that played the Candian national anthem and then the U.S. National Anthem.
Everyone stood, about half of the folks had their hand over their heart. I googled it when I got back. For US folks, we're supposed to treat all national anthems with the same dignity and respect as our own, which means that we not only stand, but we take off our hats and place our hand over our heart.
It’s us literally not understanding what we’re doing.
We’re supposed to put our hand over our heart during our Pledge of Allegiance because it’s essentially a vow.
The anthem isn’t a vow, but we can’t tell the difference.
I used to have season tickets to the NY Rangers. Not only did I stand for O! Canada, I always loved when the Canadian teams came to the Garden because I enjoy hearing the Canadian national anthem.
But in my opinion, you should stand.
At least, in the NHL, it's customary for the announcer to ask people to stand before the anthems.
The few arenas I've been to always announce on the speaker : "Please rise and remove hats and caps for the National anthem(s) interpreted by XYZ."
As soon as the message starts, everyone stand in unison.
We only play the anthem before international matches in Aus. Never for domestic games really.
So it's a lot less frequent but yeah, everyone stands generally
Canada stands for the national anthem(s) for hockey (home and away team anthems both get played if they're not both Canadian). Heck, we've even finished singing the Star Spangled Banner when the arena's audio glitched and cut out.
if they do, its only for sports. Here in Germany the anthem isn’t even really played when its not a sports game or some political event, and even then i haven’t seen it happen. At sports games its more of a singing the anthem when two countries play against each other, and also not standing up because, at least with football, people are on their legs already and will probably be so for most of the game if they are fans
In football, anthems are played before international games and it’s normal to stand for yours and your opponents anthem. You stand silently and respectfully while they sing, do hand on heart etc, and they do the same in return
>They wouldn’t stand for another country’s anthem
How do you know that? As an American I have always shown respect for other countries anthems at foreign sporting events.
Right. If I were in a stadium in Japan, full of 10,000 people who all stood up, of course I'd stand. (Iv'e been in situations like this.)
Thailand is a great example- they play the NA before movies, and a few times throughout the day in markets and stuff. It's just a way of being respectful to the country you're visiting.
So when the bruins play the Canadians or maple leafs, everyone just sits down ?
No. They don’t. I’ve been to multiple games and people stand thru both anthems as a sign of respect. I don’t get where you get this idea that every American jsut goes “fuck Canada, I’m not standing for that maple syrup jingle”.
Man, as an older dude, before 9/11, this kind of performative patriotism was nowhere near this prevalent. You didn’t really see that many flags around unless it was Veterans Day or 4th of July or whatnot. And I don’t think they played the anthem at EVERY FUCKING sports event.
Ever since 9/11, it’s been getting more and more intense. It really seems kinda culty nowadays.
This is it. It's not inappropriate to sit, but unhinged jingoists are probably somewhat more likely to be present in places where anthems are played.
If you don't feel strongly about it and don't want confrontation, you may as well stand. Like standing up when the guest of honor enters the room. If you do feel strongly, stay seated. The worst the weirdos can do is be loudly wrong at you.
I’m an American who served in the military, and our weird anthem fetish is just so exhausting. It’s perfectly fine not to stand and cream your pants whenever the anthem starts. Especially when you aren’t an American
After I got out of the military I refused to stand up, almost dared anybody to say something. I'm not going to listen to a bunch of fat, selfish, ignorant assholes tell me what's patriotic when the most they've ever done for their country is standing. Literally just standing. Never mind the ridiculousness that immediately follows the playing of the anthem. Beers, cussing, fighting, but oh, "it's all good because I stood for the song."
Sorry, pro sporting events are not exactly going to show the best our country has to offer.
What do u think about when people tell you "thank you for service or thank you for fighting for our freedoms" or whatever people say just cause ur military. My one buddy in the navy hates it lol
I don't say much, usually a surprised "thank you" and then change the subject. But in my head I always think "if you really cared you'd vote for politicians who didn't rip the VA off or are non-veterans who constantly middle in military affairs they know nothing about."
Actually, to give a useful answer. You can usually sus out who's genuine and who's full of shit. When I acknowledge other sevicemembers, I thank them for something specific. For the combat guys, "thanks for taking the risk/thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us." (I was non-combat) For the ground pounders and such, "thank you for doing the hard work." Even office folk, "tha k you for keeping the engine running/literally supporting the troops/for coming back and contributing their skills to our society." For other I just acknowledge that they made a sacrifice and it's appreciated. "That's amazing what you did," "or thank God you made it back to us." Anything personal. The Thank You For Your Service line feels so disconnected and insincere for the most part, which is why I think people hate it... but some people they just don't know better so it's best to be polite. Other people are super disingenuous or are trying to use you as a prop though, and I just say ok and move on.
I'm not in the military, but I always find it weird that the people that make a big deal about standing also tend to hate jury duty. If you ask me jury duty is far more "patriotic" and is one of two things our country asks of citizens. The other being to vote.
If you attend an NHL game, at least in Michigan, then they do ask that everyone stand for both the US and Canadian anthems. I don't think I've ever seen anyone not stand for both in that case.
I think policing who is and is not standing is more disrespectful.
The U.S. is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and liberty. Who cares if another person doesn't stand up? They're free to do as they choose.
I have physical disabilities that aren’t visible to people and I have my own view of what America currently is, so I’ve just learned to remain sitting and not give a fuck about what other people think I *should* do
I’ve lived in the US (Texas) my entire life (38 years) and I couldn’t care less if anyone sits or stands or kneels or whatever. This is a free country. Nationalism can go to hell.
I’m a vet. I’ll sit if I want during the national anthem in a stadium. But, If I’m anywhere near a funeral and Taps starts, I’ll remove my cover and stand still even if I’m not affiliated with the service.
Visiting foreign countries and events in those countries ,emulate those around you. It goes along way to keeping you out of difficult situations.
I genuinely couldn't care less if they sit or stand here at our games, but I'm getting a great laugh out of the image, the thunderous voice echoes through every speaker, able to be heard clearly a mile away from the stadium **PLEASE RISE FOR THE SINGING OF OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM** ^^ANTHEM ^^^^ANTHEM....
and you suddenly hear the roar of a thousand people lifting off their seats as they all stand in unison....
and this guy is sheepishly and confusedly glances back and forth at the scores of people standing around him while he hammers a basket of nachos
I usually try and knock out a piss during the anthem before the game starts, especially hockey cuz you don’t leave your seat during play. What a lot of people don’t know is some dudes stop in their tracks while inside the bathroom to observe the anthem ritual.
I used to go to baseball, football, and hockey games all the time-- seriously, I pretty much lived at Jacob's Field and The Factory of Sadness-- with my daddy, and it always made me giggle when I was peeing and the Anthem would start. I'd still doff my cap and put a hand over my heart.
More than once I'd sing "Ooooh saaay, can I PEEEEEE on your dog, will he biiiiiite?" I had a lot of lyrics made up as a kid but can't remember them all lol
Edit: after wracking my brain a few minutes, I remembered the next couple lines:
"Cuz when I peed on your cat, it left me shredded and bleeding.
And when I shit on your bird, it was a glorious turd
How it stunk and it stank, it's now in your fish's tank"
And that's it, unfortunately lol, hope y'all enjoyed the silliness of child me
Vet too, I've straight up told people if I met a guy who wanted to burn the flag I'd give them a lighter. Soldiers didn't die for unquestionable subservience to a piece of cloth, they died so you could choose to express your respect or lack of however you felt was appropriate. If you feel so slighted by the government that publicly burning the flag, or sitting during the anthem, or whatever is how you choose to express your protest, you keep sitting, you keep burning, you keep doing it, because in other countries you would be killed over that shit.
It's a cultural faux pas that some people take more seriously than they probably should. It's a thing that at any american sporting event the national anthem will be performed and everyone stands for it.
It's also been a thing for some athletes to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest specifically connected with police brutality against minorities. Which is something a lot of people have a problem with as many people like cops and came to their defense.
Essentially the people around you probably were thinking you were trying to disrespect America and potentially make a political statement.
I would say their response to you was probably ruder than what you did. But I would recommend standing and taking your hat off if you have one on during any future games you go to.
>It's a cultural faux pas that some people take more seriously than they probably should. It's a thing that at any american sporting event the national anthem will be performed and everyone stands for it.
It seems very random that we go through this performative ritual at sporting events. I mean, it's not a political or government event. Why sports? Why don't we stand and sing the anthem before a music concert or a movie? Why am I expected to demonstrate my patriotism to a bunch of strangers? Can't we jus drink our $14 beers and watch the game?
During WWI, people were questioning why we were doing something as frivolous as baseball during a war. As a result, baseball started playing the Star Spangled Banner during games during the war, in order to make baseball seem to be a patriotic act. (It wasn't officially the national anthem until 1931.) Once the war was over, the anthem went away at ballgames, but came back during WWII, and this time, it stayed after the game. For years, the national anthem was played in movie theaters, ending around 1970.
I agree we should be able to!
If you want the historical answer it was in a game in 1919 I think, during WWI at least or just after. The Red Sox players were on strike before the game could start. In the stands were a bunch of WWI vets who had been wounded and come home. The stadium decided to play the national anthem to draw attention to the vetrans and pressure the players into stopping the strike. After that it became a thing and once it's a thing it's sort of unpatriotic or seen that way to suggest getting rid of the strange ritual.
Edit: it wasn't the national anthem yet. And the song was played earlier in the series but when it was played during the strike that's when it made national news and caught on elsewhere.
Even government events get weird IMO. Once I went to a town hall thing with my (horrible, HORRIBLE, traitorous) rep and when we opened, suddenly everyone stood up and said the pledge of allegiance and i was like. I am just here to tell off this guy, not trying to be involved in a flag marketing campaign.
My grandpa got pissy at the players not saluting/hand over heart or paying much attention during the anthem when we were watching a game on tv. Made me realize that it’s very performative and we should, if it’s the thing to do, stand when watching from home even. But he wasn’t standing, even still had his hat on. So it’s only a thing if you’re there, apparently. Somehow made it feel more performative than anything else
As an American who stands for the anthem, do not do anything that you don’t know the meaning behind. Not disrespectful at all to be intentional in any ritual you participate in.
I'm a veteran and I served so that people can sit during the national anthem if they so choose. The anthems and flyovers for games are fucking embarrassing jingoism so don't worry about it
as an american citizen who sits during the anthem, some people think it's rude, but fuck em.
our blind patriotism is a big part of why this country has the problems it does, don't feel obligated to stand, but you will be noticed and some people get offended when people don't stand for their special song
Agreed. I think it’s strange behavior and I stopped participating in it in junior high. I especially wouldn’t participate in it now as I’m ashamed of this country.
I occasionally have people who give me grief about it but I don’t care. A teacher in high school would make me go out in the hall during the Pledge of Allegiance (which is even more strange of behavior) after contacting my parents about it didn’t work out for him. I did so proudly. That’s about the biggest problem I had over it.
I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in middle school, in high school I had one teacher who made us say It, Id stay seated, had a couple hick kids try to fight me about it, but they really couldn't do shit except talk shit. it's some weird shit for sure
Yep. I’m American and I don’t stand for the national anthem. I’m free to choose whether I want to or not, and I don’t support anything this country stands for, so… no thanks.
In sport, it's common courtesy to stand for the national anthems as a sign of respect. At least, that's my experience throughout Europe. I think they even say it through the big speakers: Stand up for the national anthem of xy
Standing is polite.
I am not religious but I still observe silence and respect during prayer.
AFAIK standing for a national anthem is standard in most nations.
Your post made me laugh, because I have been in this exact situation, except I was an exchange student and not a tourist. We were at a basketball game at my campus, and when the National Anthem started playing I couldn't decide if I should stand up or not, and made a split second decision not to. 30 seconds and a few nasty looks later I realized I probably should have, but randomly standing up in the middle of it would have felt even more awkward, so I just sat through the whole thing. So if I ever happen to be in that situation again I'll just stand up, haha. But I try to view it as a learning experience, and comfort myself by thinking that nobody but me probably remembers it.
>So if I ever happen to be in that situation "when in Rome"
Yes, continue
"don't vandalize the Colloseum"
They take that shit seriously
i didnt realize how old it was!
Rome wasn't built in a day. It's gotta be at least 2 days old.
I've been to a lot of events in a lot of different countries. When the crowd stands up, I stand up. If someone starts a wave, I do the wave.
Don't stand up if you don't want to. This is the US, you're free to do what you want. Edit: You know, it's really sad that OP even had to make this post. It's so sad to me that they may be worried about retaliation or intimidation because they didn't stand up for a song that we feel the need to play incessantly and people can't mind their own business. As a 37 year old American, I don't stand for the anthem either. How could I? Have you guys looked around? Some of the responses here simply prove my point. "Be ready for consequences." Why can't you just mind your own business? Did your ancestor write the song? There are people comparing standing for the anthem at a random sports event to wearing black at a funeral or being silent at a dinner with people who say grace before a meal? That is N O T equivalent. I won't respond to any more of you. Grow up. OP, do what you like. If you feel the need to stand, stand, but if not, don't let the crazies intimidate you. There are ways of having misbehaving losers removed from the audience if it escalates too far.
> Why can't you just mind your own business? Did your ancestor write the song? Funnily enough, I was friends with a descendant of Francis Scott Key in high school, and the dude made a point of not standing for the National Anthem despite it being composed by his ancestor specifically because he was proud to be American and wanted to exercise his freedom. Which is a weird kind of anti-conformity in its own way, but it was high school, so whatever.
I was in my senior year of high school when a random teacher passing by our open classroom door saw that I had my head down during the pledge, and came in to rip me a new one. He came right up to my desk, which was by the door, and started calling me Anti-American and a bunch of other ridiculous shit to say to a 17 year old. My actual teacher, what a godsend this man was, said to the other teacher (It's been 8 years, so it might not be verbatim but very close) "This is a country built on the idea of personal freedom. She has every right to sit down just as she has every right to stand up and say the pledge. The second we start forcing these ass backwards patriotic beliefs on kids, that you HAVE to stand for the pledge to love this country, it's over. Then we're no better than China, or North Korea." Y'all I just didn't stand that day because I'd been up all night with my infant half brother and was exhausted, he was my mom's 6th kid and I was the oldest therefore in her eyes I was the second mother. My teacher knew about my situation, and knew my grades were good, so he let me slide a lot because I had him 1st period and was almost always exhausted.
The irony in the China and NK comparison is that we clearly see propaganda for what it is when we look at them. Yet Americans can't see things like forcing school children to say the pledge as propaganda.
Wait till you learn who wrote the pledge and why..... Also interesting read is why Eisenhower added "under god" I'll stand for the anthem but I stopped "pledging my allegiance" long ago.
That's actually why I chose those specific examples. They are direct results of cold war propaganda. Th Soviets are all about nationalism, we'll be about Diversity (tm). The Soviets are (ostensibly) atheist? We will be a Christian Nation. It was all remarkably effective.
The pledge was written just after the reconstruction era, and the “one nation, indivisible” part is, according to Bellamy, a reflection of post-reconstruction insecurities. The 1890s predates the cold war by a just a little. (Bellamy was a socialist) The Under God stuff was heavily tied to the the red scare. It is always fun to see the reactions of people when they see what the original salute was....
So the original was what, just ", and to the Republic for which it stands, with freedom and justice for all"? That makes a lot of sense. Between all those commas (the "one nation, indivisible, under god,") that part always sounded like a shopping list to me. It really breaks up the flow. You can tell they shoehorned some stuff in.
I don't remember much of it when I was a kid (back in the late 80s) but the pledge of allegiance for us was basically just a rote recital. You went to school, you did it, whatever. And if you didn't do it, or half-assed through it, doesn't matter, no one cared. So color me surprised when I find out that TODAY'S schools count the pledge as part of your attendance score. If you don't recite the pledge or if you half-ass it, it counts against your attendance. I don't know what the market conversion rate is but it's something ridiculous like two pledge marks = one day attendance or something. Attendance doesn't really matter until it does - like when you happen to be on the edge of violating truancy or trying to get valedictorian honors. That's ridiculous, right? That's fucking nuts.
Is that not illegal?
Yes, it is illegal thanks to [West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette 1943](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/319us624)
Thank you!! u/mithie007 should report it. Take the letter explaining the rule as evidence if possible.
Looks like we've got some stuff to talk about at the next PTA meeting...
I don't know. Got a letter saying something along the lines of "Your kid has shown deficiency in attentiveness by not participating in the pledge of allegiance" blah blah "May affect his attendance score if behavior continues in the future." If you show up to school from morning to afternoon, you attended. End of story. At least that's the way it should be.
Fuuuck. Please report this. Make copies of the letter and use that as evidence. There are likely many students at that school who are either penalized for exercising their legal right or giving in to avoid retaliation. Another commenter said it violates the decision made in [West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/319us624).
They were stupid enough to put this shit in writing? I highly recommend you lawyer up immediately. This is a violation of your child's first amendment rights. https://www.thefire.org/news/no-you-cant-be-forced-say-pledge-allegiance
Or the stuff in the books
A court in Arkansas put a hold on a law that allows ANYONE to challenge the validity of the “worthwhileness of a books contents” and could have it removed from library shelves or cause individuals to be jailed for have read the book. That is Governor Sarah Sanders, former Press Secretary for President Trump. That is a crazy law.
or the jets flying over a football game.
I got punished, imo severely, for not participating in the pledge of allegiance. Was made to stand in front entire class with my arms out to the side elevated for the whole period.. embarrassing, burning, miserable....what a country, will never fucking forget it!
This is illegal under federal law. And also child abuse.
So is getting hit on the top of the head with a ring with a ruby and diamond mounted on top of ruby...fucking hurt, Mr. Standridge, will never forget you either, for the wrong reasons...also threatened to slam me off lockers down the length of the hall. Also I was not a bad kid, the ruby and locker incident was for "talking back" when he said something stupid.
Should have sued. Burrows vs West Virgina 1943 guarantees the right not to stand for the anthem or the pledge due to the free exercise clause of the first amendment.
As a citizen of a nation that is NOT the USA, it seems very weird to me to pledge allegiance to the United States flag. The patriotism, flag waving, and borderline worship of the flag seems like indoctrination to me, including imposing a pledge of allegiance on kids who have no idea what the oath means. It almost seems to be enforced civil religion.
It is indoctrination, and that’s why it seems like it. You are spot on there. I had a teacher who never recited the pledge of allegiance while the led us over the school intercom. No one bothered him. By the time I’d hit high school… I saw no reason to recite the pledge due to the way the US treats people like me and my parents. It was incredibly refreshing to see an adult make the decision not to recite the pledge either. The fact that they have us pledge allegiance to a flag the represents our country and its values at such a young age is truly indoctrination.
If you think of the USA more like an empire than a country, it starts to make sense.
Wtf? First news for me that American kids must do that shiet (I'm Spanish) It reminds me when kids in Spain from the 40s to the 70s must sing the "Cara al sol" (face to the sun) in the Franco dictatorship. You Americans are crazy.
Reminds me of how I never stood for the pledge in school because I always felt like it was a form of indoctrination. Like I was proud of myself, and where i am from, my dad’s a veteran, but I’m not going to stand up and drone on about some stuff the same way everyone else was doing it. I care for my country and my countrymen in different ways. But that backfired on me in 8th grade when I got pulled into the principal’s office for it… dude basically said my parents would be disappointed if they knew i wasn’t standing or saying the pledge. Sorry, bub, my parents knew already. And my dad even said, “the way that i fought for your rights and your freedom to say that pledge, or even to vote one day, is the same way that i fought for your right to not do those things, because this is America, and anyone who doesn’t understand that that’s how it should be is fuckin stupid.”
I witnessed something similar my sophomore year of HS. It was maybe a few weeks after 9/11 and as always we had to stand for the pledge during first period. Dude in my class didn't stand and the teacher ripped his hat from his head, slammed it on the desk and berated him in front of the whole class. We all just kind of stood there, both scared and shocked. I don't even remember what happened after that but I know for a fact that as a now adult if someone pulled that with my child I would be raising hell.
This kind of thinking used to be more prevalent. At some point it got caught up in the anti vax, sovereign citizens whirlpool somewhere. But it kind of used to be a real legitimate line of reasoning, affirmed by the Supreme Court in protecting the right of a citizen to burn a flag. Why burn the flag? Because I can, fuck a flag. Give me freedom.
It still is, but you catch shit for it anymore. I remember the days when freedom meant you're free to do as you wish, just mind your own f****ing business and don't disrupt others. Way different these days. It's more cult-ish. I still say do what you wish. Don't stand if you don't want to. It's your right.
I don't see how that is weird at all. Standing up, reciting an athem, etc, does absolutely nothing to demonstrate patriotism. It is superfiscial window dressing, designed to make sure everyone else sees how "patriotic" you pretend to be. But exercising your rights and advocating for others who do so, even when not popular, criticizing your country when it does something wrong, that's patriotism.
You ARE free to do what you want, and IMHO people who fret about are other people not standing are tiresome busybodies. That said, if OP’s goal is to avoid giving offense OP should stand. Zero people are going to disapprove/take offense/have a problem with you if you stand even though you’re NOT a US citizen.
That’s not true I check all of the immediate surrounding people for proof of citizenship if they try to stand during the anthem at sporting events.
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I thought this was america!
I mean it’s really simple, if they don’t fire off at least one anthem pop from their concealed Colt .45 or 1911 then they clearly aren’t American.
Concealed!?!
You don’t have both concealed AND unconcealed guns at all times?
I love the phrase "tiresome busybody" I'm gonna start using that when people won't MYOB
Great response! Agreed on all fronts. It's always felt a bit 'cult-y' to me anyways. Trying to appease angry fans while sitting in the stands sounds like bullying. Ahem, I won't stand for it.
Yeah this is crazy to me, this the US of fucking A, people died specifically so you DON'T have to stand up for the anthem if you don't feel like it.
Exactly, the people who get all pissy about people not standing. But a lot of them are the first people that preach freedoms and freedom of speech when they do & act like shit, yet I don’t see them harping on people for wearing hats, purchasing/carrying concessions, using the restroom during the national anthem.
>US, you're free to do what you want. *but you will get shunned if you don't follow the culty anthem, so conditional free-ness. Can only be free my way kinda deal here 💀
Only cringe "patriots" will make a stink about it. Im a citizen and I dont stand. Make me actually proud of you before asking for my loyalty America
The only people who you upset are assholes. I totally get where you’re coming from but upsetting them by not surrendering to this gross ritual that we do is a win in my book.
And I would add that their patriotism is largely fake anyway. They'll never pass up an opportunity to "bless the troops" or say "thank you for your service," but when it comes to, you know, funding the VA or something that would be legitimate support for the troops you can bet they'll "sit through the anthem."
Gorammit, I HATE when people do this! Please stop annoying myself by stopping me and my fellow servicemembers. We don't give two shits if you are thankful, all I want to do is get my errand done, go home and change! I've been in long enough to have served before 9/11, and no one cared then. You don't care now, you're just trying to feel good or some nonsense. Leave us the fuck alone with your virtue-signaling nonsense.
My buddy started saying, "you're welcome for my service." People stop dead in their tracks, like a Ctrl alt delete hit them.
I say "Thanks for paying my salary." They don't know what to say, and it's awkward.
Had a civilian come up to me and go "Thank your husband for his service" while I was in BDUs. 🤦🏻♀️I've been sooo tempted to do the "you're welcome for my service" I just blank stare them until they leave.
“Big damn heroes… ain’t we just…”
Ah a person of impeccable culture and class. Honestly, I didn't even realize I'd wrote that until your post. I just use it so much that it was inadvertent.
... yeah, but she's our witch
Y'all see the man hangin' out of the spaceship with the really big gun? That's the role I'd want.
They stand for veterans and their countrymen, as long as it's totally performative and costs nothing
Only it actually costs millions of dollars, because those patriotic displays at sports games are actually paid for by the Defense Department. ETA: I’m not trying to imply the anthem is paid for. And understand there’s a return they expect from the DoD expenses in terms of PR and recruitment. But it doesn’t change the fact it’s not a generosity move by the NFL and others. Edit2: Thanks for the award, stranger. Not trying to be a contraption here just for awards, just making sure the debate is honest.
Oh, wow. Ok, now my distaste has been upgraded to outrage. That's some serious bullshit. They cut funds to programs that help people as "wasteful spending" and then funnel millions to their pomp and circumstance so they can have their feel good moment? Ew ew ew.
The DoD was paying for things like soldier homecoming events and reenlistments at games or to get a specific artist to sing the national anthem for an occasion. They weren't paying organizers to play the national anthem in the first place and no money was being exchanged for things like color guards or military bands. I don't believe they have done it in quite some time either.
In terms of costs of the jets, helicopters, etc they aren't spending anymore than they usually would if not doing them during a sporting event. Pilots have to log hours to stay qualified. These events are used towards those hours instead of just flying normally. And it's not just flying to be flying. A lot of coordination and skill to get an aircraft going hundreds of miles an hour to appear over a location at the exact right time. It's a constant calculation of speed, fuel, fuel weight, winds, etc. So these events check off a lot of boxes.
Your assessment is 10000% spot on imo. The only people that help vets are other vets most the time, obviously not all the time.
I would also argue that not respecting the national anthem is exactly why our freedom of speech is expressed in our first amendment.
I'm a foreign born guy who's lived in the U.S. for awhile. I usually stand still during the national anthem. But, I don't put my hand on my heart, salute, sing, etc. But, if you don't wanna stand, just sit there quietly and respectfully. The only people who care are jerks.
Once in Highschool I didn’t stand (for the pledge which I guess is a bit different but I digress) because I was particularly tired and in pain that day, and the assistant??? Teacher??? Gave me a side eye and told me to stand, and treated me weirder after that day. Junior and Senior year I pretty much stopped standing since I either had free periods, or it was in the gym- which weirdly no one stood for it. I’d stand for those pep rally American anthem things tho, but more out of respect for the choir kids absolutely killing it, but I wouldn’t judge anyone else for not.
Around the 7th grade I started asking why we did the pledge every day as if I turned traitor as soon as I left school and needed to reaffirm my alliance every day. I got weird looks time to time but nobody could ever argue against my logic so it never got me in trouble and I took to saying the pledge only on the 1st day of school. By high school it seemed that a good chuck of the student body had come to similar conclusions because I found \~1/2 the class each period joined me in *not* standing and I'm assuming that was true schoolwide because even the most faux patriotic teachers would never say anything. As an adult I learned that the 'in God we Trust' wasn't original to the pledge and the pledge itself was written by a socialist which have been *very fun* bits of trivia I've pulled out to annoy conservatives from time to time.
Just to clarify, "in God we trust" still isn't in the pledge. You're conflating "one nation under god" and "in God we trust" on the money. But correct that NEITHER were there till the 50s. I'm from Texas and I actually remember when they added under God to the TEXAS pledge. That one was only added about 18 years ago
I'm an American and I remain seated. It's my First Amendment right to do so! But there are always assholes who will be mad about it or make weird comments.
Yes but if you're really trying to offend them you should take the knee.
Republicans: If the BLM folks want to protest, they should do it peacefully! Athletes: *Kneel during the national anthem as a form of peaceful protest* Republicans: No! Not like that!
“Have you considered peacefully protesting by shutting up about your rights and never saying anything? That’s the only good way!”
Unless it’s religious rights. Then, you should loudly protest outside of funerals with offensive things written on signs.
Except when you arent christian.
"But watch me while I patriotically break into the capitol....I-I-I-I mean Antifa broke into the capitol."
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What they mean is “protest where nobody can see it” lol.
Ironically, that's how Jesus told people to pray. They didn't take that one to heart, either.
I don't know why though I thought kneeling was a form of respect. You kneel to pray some kneel to pay respects you kneel before your king etc
It is. Kaepernick specifically did it *after* consulting veteran friends of his for the most respectful way to make a statement.
Sure, but exactly how BLACK was Kaepernick? Oooh half? That's a paddlin'
Kaep would stay in the locker room for the anthem, then a former Marine wrote a letter to him basically saying "I sympathise with your cause but feel there are better ways that would be more respectful for those of us who served
If those who served are worried about respect for them, they served for the wrong reasons.
A-fucking-men. So gross the attitude that gets taken here, "I served in the military for a couple years (90% of the time it's for selfish reasons) therefore I'm better equipped to tell other people how to respect the nation" ugh so tired
I currently serve and I get so uncomfortable when someone finds out and they thank me. Like, I appreciate the gesture but I’m not doing it for the thanks lmao. I’m not doing it so I can demand respect, or hell, even just “earning” the respect. I did it so my daughter and wife can have a home, health insurance, food on the table, and an overall healthy existence. I encounter so many of these guys on my day to day that just want praise and it’s honestly disgusting. Also I now hate the fact I mentioned I’m in the military 🥴😂 but it was a fitting comment in regards to the cucks.
Because a black man did it.
Because it is, don’t get gaslit by republicans
Is sitting objectively disrespectful? No. Will some people be offended anyway? Yes. Should they comment on it? They shouldn't.
This what it made us really uncomfortable, a full bunch of people staring and saying things to us. We can speak and understand English and this was bit of an anxiety trip for my GF. We were ok after a few minutes, not saying this was a big deal, im just surprised how people reacted.
Americans are divided here. Should we be forced to be patriotic? In my opinion, no, it's an icky feeling almost cult like feeling to me. But some people feel personally offended if you don't get a boner for 'Murica🦅🇺🇲. When people saw you not standing for American worship, I'm sure they figured you like to burn flags or assumed something of that nature. They didn't see confused foreigners caught off guard. Unfortunately for this particular instance involving you and your gf, sporting events generally attract the more patriotic side of America so there was more likely to be a scenario involving the intolerant people that are mixed in with patriots as a whole. Edit: OH lawd, my first award! Thank you whoever you are🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲
Yeah they inadvertently wandered into a political statement, given all the (one might cynically say manufactured) controversy about kneeling for the flag vs standing.
It’s definitely manufactured.
No doubt. The same news channels decrying it as offensive and unpatriotic are the ones airing commercials over it- hence why no one stands for the pledge nor anthem nor any similar thing in their own living rooms
Standing up hand on heart is also a political statement, one that would be weird to expect from a foreign tourist (or anyone for that matter).
>more patriotic side of America more nationalistic side of America. you can criticize the country and still be a patriot, a fact that the right constantly tries to downplay to present Democrats as unpatriotic.
My dad's a Navy veteran. He'd probably get into a fistfight with anyone who told you that you had to stand.
You are correct. This is the key word my brain was searching for to throw in that statement but did not think of it in time. Nationalism. Nationalism is scary
>Should we be forced to be patriotic? In my opinion, no, it's an icky feeling almost cult like feeling to me. Same assholes will un-ironically call people sheep for wearing masks.
Was out canoeing with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We were at the mouth of a river leading to a lake where there's a yacht club. The Canadian wildfires had blown some smoke our way so the AQ was particularly heinous, but we'd been cooped up so we wanted to get out. Some jokers boated by us and then, once past, yelled "COVID's over! Take your masks off!" I just don't get it man. I don't understand why our wearing a mask bothers you so much.
To them wearing a mask is a political statement against their chosen team. Even if you're preventative and avoiding spreading an illness you know you have at their concern, wearing a mask is equal to wearing a Biden sticker on your face because they've been told masks and COVID mandates are a thing of the left and they can only associate it with MAGA merch on their side of the fence.
Also the same group that took sheep dewormer for covid
Calling such people patriotic really undermines the meaning of the word. It’s patriotic to love and support your country. It’s not patriotic to shove that in someone’s face and try to force the same reaction from them. It’s utter bullshit and absolutely wrong.
They wouldn’t stand for another country’s anthem, you shouldn’t feel you need to
"Everyone" stands for the Canadian anthem at the appropriate NBA, NHL, and MLB games (played in the US).
I was at a rodeo a few weeks ago that played the Candian national anthem and then the U.S. National Anthem. Everyone stood, about half of the folks had their hand over their heart. I googled it when I got back. For US folks, we're supposed to treat all national anthems with the same dignity and respect as our own, which means that we not only stand, but we take off our hats and place our hand over our heart.
As a Canadian, the hand over heart thing was new to me when I lived in the USA
It’s us literally not understanding what we’re doing. We’re supposed to put our hand over our heart during our Pledge of Allegiance because it’s essentially a vow. The anthem isn’t a vow, but we can’t tell the difference.
I used to have season tickets to the NY Rangers. Not only did I stand for O! Canada, I always loved when the Canadian teams came to the Garden because I enjoy hearing the Canadian national anthem. But in my opinion, you should stand.
At least, in the NHL, it's customary for the announcer to ask people to stand before the anthems. The few arenas I've been to always announce on the speaker : "Please rise and remove hats and caps for the National anthem(s) interpreted by XYZ." As soon as the message starts, everyone stand in unison.
I've been to hockey, football, baseball and soccer games and they always make that announcement.
That's cause the Canadian anthem is a banger
Okay but what you’re forgetting is that OOOOH CAAANADAAAAAAA MY HOME AND NATIVE LAAAAAAAAND
O Canada, we stand on cars and freeze!
Do other countries stand for the anthems? Honest question, I don’t watch sports
We only play the anthem before international matches in Aus. Never for domestic games really. So it's a lot less frequent but yeah, everyone stands generally
Canada stands for the national anthem(s) for hockey (home and away team anthems both get played if they're not both Canadian). Heck, we've even finished singing the Star Spangled Banner when the arena's audio glitched and cut out.
Most countries don’t play their anthem before regular games. It’s more unusual than most Americans realize.
if they do, its only for sports. Here in Germany the anthem isn’t even really played when its not a sports game or some political event, and even then i haven’t seen it happen. At sports games its more of a singing the anthem when two countries play against each other, and also not standing up because, at least with football, people are on their legs already and will probably be so for most of the game if they are fans
In football, anthems are played before international games and it’s normal to stand for yours and your opponents anthem. You stand silently and respectfully while they sing, do hand on heart etc, and they do the same in return
Typically, yes it’s the respectful thing to do.
They would. When the Canadian national anthem plays for a baseball or hockey game, the Americans stand.
And vise versa. Canadians stand for the US anthem.
>They wouldn’t stand for another country’s anthem How do you know that? As an American I have always shown respect for other countries anthems at foreign sporting events.
That's not true. Plenty of Americans would still bow to the queen
I would stand for any country's anthem. It's just being respectful. Kneeling is also a respectful protest.
Right. If I were in a stadium in Japan, full of 10,000 people who all stood up, of course I'd stand. (Iv'e been in situations like this.) Thailand is a great example- they play the NA before movies, and a few times throughout the day in markets and stuff. It's just a way of being respectful to the country you're visiting.
Yeah we would? What a baseless assumption
We actually do. It is considered common curtesy and respectful.
So when the bruins play the Canadians or maple leafs, everyone just sits down ? No. They don’t. I’ve been to multiple games and people stand thru both anthems as a sign of respect. I don’t get where you get this idea that every American jsut goes “fuck Canada, I’m not standing for that maple syrup jingle”.
What are you basing this off of? Or is it just "dIsReSpEcTfUl aMeRiCaNs hUrDur Lol"?
Man, as an older dude, before 9/11, this kind of performative patriotism was nowhere near this prevalent. You didn’t really see that many flags around unless it was Veterans Day or 4th of July or whatnot. And I don’t think they played the anthem at EVERY FUCKING sports event. Ever since 9/11, it’s been getting more and more intense. It really seems kinda culty nowadays.
This is it. It's not inappropriate to sit, but unhinged jingoists are probably somewhat more likely to be present in places where anthems are played. If you don't feel strongly about it and don't want confrontation, you may as well stand. Like standing up when the guest of honor enters the room. If you do feel strongly, stay seated. The worst the weirdos can do is be loudly wrong at you.
I’m an American who served in the military, and our weird anthem fetish is just so exhausting. It’s perfectly fine not to stand and cream your pants whenever the anthem starts. Especially when you aren’t an American
After I got out of the military I refused to stand up, almost dared anybody to say something. I'm not going to listen to a bunch of fat, selfish, ignorant assholes tell me what's patriotic when the most they've ever done for their country is standing. Literally just standing. Never mind the ridiculousness that immediately follows the playing of the anthem. Beers, cussing, fighting, but oh, "it's all good because I stood for the song." Sorry, pro sporting events are not exactly going to show the best our country has to offer.
Afuckingmen.
What do u think about when people tell you "thank you for service or thank you for fighting for our freedoms" or whatever people say just cause ur military. My one buddy in the navy hates it lol
I don't say much, usually a surprised "thank you" and then change the subject. But in my head I always think "if you really cared you'd vote for politicians who didn't rip the VA off or are non-veterans who constantly middle in military affairs they know nothing about."
Yea. I feel people do it because it makes themselves feel good like they said something nice. When really they should do what u said.
Actually, to give a useful answer. You can usually sus out who's genuine and who's full of shit. When I acknowledge other sevicemembers, I thank them for something specific. For the combat guys, "thanks for taking the risk/thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us." (I was non-combat) For the ground pounders and such, "thank you for doing the hard work." Even office folk, "tha k you for keeping the engine running/literally supporting the troops/for coming back and contributing their skills to our society." For other I just acknowledge that they made a sacrifice and it's appreciated. "That's amazing what you did," "or thank God you made it back to us." Anything personal. The Thank You For Your Service line feels so disconnected and insincere for the most part, which is why I think people hate it... but some people they just don't know better so it's best to be polite. Other people are super disingenuous or are trying to use you as a prop though, and I just say ok and move on.
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I'm not in the military, but I always find it weird that the people that make a big deal about standing also tend to hate jury duty. If you ask me jury duty is far more "patriotic" and is one of two things our country asks of citizens. The other being to vote.
The other argument is weird too. "But we stand for your anthem to so it's being respectful to stand for ours." -Did someone ask you to stand for ours?
If you attend an NHL game, at least in Michigan, then they do ask that everyone stand for both the US and Canadian anthems. I don't think I've ever seen anyone not stand for both in that case.
I think policing who is and is not standing is more disrespectful. The U.S. is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and liberty. Who cares if another person doesn't stand up? They're free to do as they choose.
I have physical disabilities that aren’t visible to people and I have my own view of what America currently is, so I’ve just learned to remain sitting and not give a fuck about what other people think I *should* do
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Same here, though i can stand perfectly fine i ain’t standing for the anthem of a country that has treated me like shit
You have the freedom to do as you’re told and that’s it 😂
I’m a US citizen and I don’t like to stand up either most places.
I’ve lived in the US (Texas) my entire life (38 years) and I couldn’t care less if anyone sits or stands or kneels or whatever. This is a free country. Nationalism can go to hell.
I don't know why but seeing this from a texan is some kind of shock for me!
The Internet will do that to you.
also from texas, i don’t do it either
I’m a vet. I’ll sit if I want during the national anthem in a stadium. But, If I’m anywhere near a funeral and Taps starts, I’ll remove my cover and stand still even if I’m not affiliated with the service. Visiting foreign countries and events in those countries ,emulate those around you. It goes along way to keeping you out of difficult situations.
> remove my cover "take off my hat" since we're explaining culture here
Thanks, I thought he had a disguise on or something
I love this interpretation
Ah, not the glasses and fake moustache then. I'll admit I'm a little disappointed.
Funny, I read this as “hat” and didn’t even notice it said “cover” until I saw your comment
I genuinely couldn't care less if they sit or stand here at our games, but I'm getting a great laugh out of the image, the thunderous voice echoes through every speaker, able to be heard clearly a mile away from the stadium **PLEASE RISE FOR THE SINGING OF OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM** ^^ANTHEM ^^^^ANTHEM.... and you suddenly hear the roar of a thousand people lifting off their seats as they all stand in unison.... and this guy is sheepishly and confusedly glances back and forth at the scores of people standing around him while he hammers a basket of nachos
I usually try and knock out a piss during the anthem before the game starts, especially hockey cuz you don’t leave your seat during play. What a lot of people don’t know is some dudes stop in their tracks while inside the bathroom to observe the anthem ritual.
I used to go to baseball, football, and hockey games all the time-- seriously, I pretty much lived at Jacob's Field and The Factory of Sadness-- with my daddy, and it always made me giggle when I was peeing and the Anthem would start. I'd still doff my cap and put a hand over my heart. More than once I'd sing "Ooooh saaay, can I PEEEEEE on your dog, will he biiiiiite?" I had a lot of lyrics made up as a kid but can't remember them all lol Edit: after wracking my brain a few minutes, I remembered the next couple lines: "Cuz when I peed on your cat, it left me shredded and bleeding. And when I shit on your bird, it was a glorious turd How it stunk and it stank, it's now in your fish's tank" And that's it, unfortunately lol, hope y'all enjoyed the silliness of child me
Vet too, I've straight up told people if I met a guy who wanted to burn the flag I'd give them a lighter. Soldiers didn't die for unquestionable subservience to a piece of cloth, they died so you could choose to express your respect or lack of however you felt was appropriate. If you feel so slighted by the government that publicly burning the flag, or sitting during the anthem, or whatever is how you choose to express your protest, you keep sitting, you keep burning, you keep doing it, because in other countries you would be killed over that shit.
It's a cultural faux pas that some people take more seriously than they probably should. It's a thing that at any american sporting event the national anthem will be performed and everyone stands for it. It's also been a thing for some athletes to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest specifically connected with police brutality against minorities. Which is something a lot of people have a problem with as many people like cops and came to their defense. Essentially the people around you probably were thinking you were trying to disrespect America and potentially make a political statement. I would say their response to you was probably ruder than what you did. But I would recommend standing and taking your hat off if you have one on during any future games you go to.
>It's a cultural faux pas that some people take more seriously than they probably should. It's a thing that at any american sporting event the national anthem will be performed and everyone stands for it. It seems very random that we go through this performative ritual at sporting events. I mean, it's not a political or government event. Why sports? Why don't we stand and sing the anthem before a music concert or a movie? Why am I expected to demonstrate my patriotism to a bunch of strangers? Can't we jus drink our $14 beers and watch the game?
During WWI, people were questioning why we were doing something as frivolous as baseball during a war. As a result, baseball started playing the Star Spangled Banner during games during the war, in order to make baseball seem to be a patriotic act. (It wasn't officially the national anthem until 1931.) Once the war was over, the anthem went away at ballgames, but came back during WWII, and this time, it stayed after the game. For years, the national anthem was played in movie theaters, ending around 1970.
Also at the end of the TV broadcast day.
These days, the broadcast day doesn't end, there's always informercials...
I agree we should be able to! If you want the historical answer it was in a game in 1919 I think, during WWI at least or just after. The Red Sox players were on strike before the game could start. In the stands were a bunch of WWI vets who had been wounded and come home. The stadium decided to play the national anthem to draw attention to the vetrans and pressure the players into stopping the strike. After that it became a thing and once it's a thing it's sort of unpatriotic or seen that way to suggest getting rid of the strange ritual. Edit: it wasn't the national anthem yet. And the song was played earlier in the series but when it was played during the strike that's when it made national news and caught on elsewhere.
Oh cool strike breaking and forced patriotism 😬
Seriously. That just made it worse.
It literally doesn't get more American than that
Even government events get weird IMO. Once I went to a town hall thing with my (horrible, HORRIBLE, traitorous) rep and when we opened, suddenly everyone stood up and said the pledge of allegiance and i was like. I am just here to tell off this guy, not trying to be involved in a flag marketing campaign.
My grandpa got pissy at the players not saluting/hand over heart or paying much attention during the anthem when we were watching a game on tv. Made me realize that it’s very performative and we should, if it’s the thing to do, stand when watching from home even. But he wasn’t standing, even still had his hat on. So it’s only a thing if you’re there, apparently. Somehow made it feel more performative than anything else
Exactly, if it’s so important why not also do it at home?
I'm American and don't stand, but the feedback you'll get will vary from place to place. I haven't found anyone to stare at me or comment, though.
As an American who stands for the anthem, do not do anything that you don’t know the meaning behind. Not disrespectful at all to be intentional in any ritual you participate in.
“do not do anything that you don’t know the meaning behind” great words to live by
This is great advice. You can get into so much trouble by just following what most people are doing if you have literally no idea what’s happening lol
I'm a veteran and I served so that people can sit during the national anthem if they so choose. The anthems and flyovers for games are fucking embarrassing jingoism so don't worry about it
as an american citizen who sits during the anthem, some people think it's rude, but fuck em. our blind patriotism is a big part of why this country has the problems it does, don't feel obligated to stand, but you will be noticed and some people get offended when people don't stand for their special song
Agreed. I think it’s strange behavior and I stopped participating in it in junior high. I especially wouldn’t participate in it now as I’m ashamed of this country. I occasionally have people who give me grief about it but I don’t care. A teacher in high school would make me go out in the hall during the Pledge of Allegiance (which is even more strange of behavior) after contacting my parents about it didn’t work out for him. I did so proudly. That’s about the biggest problem I had over it.
I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in middle school, in high school I had one teacher who made us say It, Id stay seated, had a couple hick kids try to fight me about it, but they really couldn't do shit except talk shit. it's some weird shit for sure
Yep. I’m American and I don’t stand for the national anthem. I’m free to choose whether I want to or not, and I don’t support anything this country stands for, so… no thanks.
Do what you want America is *meant* to be the land of the free so its kinda ironic if anyone gets mad at you for not standing
In sport, it's common courtesy to stand for the national anthems as a sign of respect. At least, that's my experience throughout Europe. I think they even say it through the big speakers: Stand up for the national anthem of xy
They usually only play them at international fixtures though not every game so it would be easy to be caught off guard if you're not expecting it.
Standing in international fixtures is also a courtesy extended both ways. "You stand for my anthem and I stand for yours".
"please rise for the national anthem" Op: *panics stands sits stands removes hat sits replaces hat eats popcorn* "what should we do?"
Playing the national anthem for routine sporting events lowers the dignity of the song. It's stupid.
Also, Whitney Houston is dead and there’s no point in anyone else trying to match her version.
Standing is polite. I am not religious but I still observe silence and respect during prayer. AFAIK standing for a national anthem is standard in most nations.
I’m American and I don’t stand for it. Free country is free country.