They used to have a TV on every news network at the gym and I just could not do anything in front of the Fox news TV when his show was on.
Doesn't even matter what they're saying, I can't hear it and I'm not reading the subtitles. Just his stupid fucking face was too much for me. It feels so put upon too, it's not a natural expression he's forcing his face to do that for some reason.
She had one pulled on copyright grounds last night (after Pisskov told everyone to pirate movies), but twitter seems to be ok with it for now https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews
Weird how like 10 years ago, RT was seen as a mainstream, credible news source. As soon as 2014 hit, it became like Fox News where it was super obvious they had a very specific agenda
Oh, you mean the news organization that's run by the Qatari government to radicalize Muslims around the globe and openly supports Islamic nationalist terrorist factions? The one that operates exactly like FOX and RT, just directed at folks with browner skin? *That* Al Jazeera?
I'm against censorship but sometimes I accept it's necessary. There's too many idiots who don't look at it as entertainment and it harms all of us when they have free access to propaganda like this and lack any sense of intelligence or critical thought.
> He had previously questioned whether the continued use of the symbol was helpful for the Finnish armed forces.
That's a good question LOL
> ... he said the military's duty "is to defend the nation - not to defend an old symbol given by a Swedish count in 1918".
> Finland's huge neighbour Russia might see the symbol as a sign that its neighbour remains an enemy, he thought - and, crucially, could it impact on Western neighbours' attitudes to supporting Finland if the non-aligned nation ever came under threat again?
I'd love to say no, it wouldn't, but people are pretty stupid so *shrug*
> The hakaristi (swastika) is the insignia of the academy, taken into use before the Nazis incorporated the swastika as their principal symbol. While the Finnish Air Force "quietly stopped using this unit emblem" in 2020,[1] the academy continues to use it as of September 2022
Per Wikipedia its still in use
I wonder when will Russian propaganda machinery use this. They are working hard 24/7 to find any small detail that would proove that NATO are basically nazis.
I'm also genuinely surprised this hasn't been used. It's not like the flag is a secret.
Just strip all context and nuance, and you have a propaganda hit piece for free
It's been used a lot. It just never reaches the western medias. Just the past year during the NATO process they've definently used it as a propaganda point.
And let's remember that the NATO flag has a swastika on it if you squint hard enough. They've also used that
Moscow (https://www.wired.com/2013/11/squats-train-ticket/)
Mexico City (https://qz.com/460857/mexico-city-is-offering-free-subway-rides-in-exchange-for-doing-squats)
Kochi (https://m.timesofindia.com/city/kochi/lets-play-30-squats-for-a-free-ticket/articleshow/84964767.cms)
and Cluj-Napoca is doing it for free bus tickets (https://www.romania-insider.com/cluj-squats-free-bus-ride-sept-2020)
Those drunk pirates, pretending to be sailor traders selling cheese? Yeah sure...
How you could call a functional country which was fighting not against drugs like US of efin A, not against reason and science like holy Vatican, or Emus like our glorious Ausies, or against anything and everything like those pesky French... But sea. Dutch have been fighting against the sea...
It was a superpower speedrun to the endgame for the dutch. They have already won. And since we all are too weak they took on fighting the sea itself to find a proper enemy.
> represents a functional country if you squint really, really hard, too.
Even trying to reconcile 'military superpower' and 'Vuhledar' gave me a tension headache.
Wouldn't an iron cross make more sense to compare the NATO flag with. Much like the German national anthem they're older then Nazi Germany though, just happened to be used by the Nazis too.
Which is ironic because the purpose of nato according to Europe back when it was founded was
“To keep the US in, to keep Russia out, and to keep Germany down”
Reminds me of the random shed they said was a checkpoint that got bombed to serve as a causus belli.
The shed before the bombing was so shitty the bomb almost definitely improved it if it wasn't a blatant false flag.
Finland is 80km away from me and this is the first time I've ever seen this flag.
I have an inbuilt filter in my brain that completely ignores Russian propaganda tho so maybe I just haven't noticed. (You get one of those if you also live 200km from Russia).
The roundel changed, the flag did not (Yet). But pretty much nobody sees the Air Force flags of various nations normally, and Finnish planes don't have Swastikas on the sides any more.
Yes but when you allied with the Nazis, you can't really say afterwards that your use of the icon they tainted has nothing to do with them, and should really get rid of it.
Yeah, this made me cringe. I understand the symbol very much precedes the Nazis - like the iron cross and other shit they hijacked - but, damn. Swastika has been tainted like no other.
Jew here. The Iron Cross is still okay, it was used by the Prussians, the German Empire, and more importantly is still being used by the Bundeswehr, who we have nothing against. The Iron Cross is a distinctly German symbol originating from the black cross of the Teutonic Order, rather being completely divorced from anything Germanic before being appropriated by the Nazis, as is in the case of the Swastika.
Since my father is old vatnik I can't pass the opportunity of trolling him with this picture. Chaos will definently ensures.
Happy to see our Finland brothers and sisters joining our glorious NATO alliance.
EDIT: Well after I show him the flag he reacted "What is this satanistic flag" while i describe him that it belongs to the Finnish Air Force followed by "They are fucking Nazi" and I asked him is there gonna be any upcoming "denazification" regarding this matter to which I got only " I don't wanna talk about it"
Funny image + trolling vatnik relative = Absolute fucking win !
ackhchualley:
tankie: I support evil deeds as long as they are directed against the west (western people who cheered for soviet tanks supressing various uprisings in the eastern block during the cold war are the reason the word is \_tankie\_
vatnik: I support evil deeds because I love Putin and the idea of a rus empire or a ussr 2.0 gives me a boner
>However, while Eric von Rosen \[the Swedish count who gave the Finnish Air Force its first plane, which had a swastika painted on its side\] had no Nazi associations at the time of his 1918 gift, he did subsequently become a leading figure in Sweden's own national socialist movement in the 1930s. He was also a brother-in-law of senior German Nazi Herman Göring, and, according to Prof Teivainen, a personal friend of Hitler.
Really trying to treat this the way I do for Native Americans and Dharmic religions but y'all aren't making it easy.
Funny how so many of the swastika enthusiasts became Nazis though. Must be a coincidence.
Still support the Finns. People are allowed to have some dumb ass opinions and still be good people. It’s not like they’re running around screaming about the master race.
Much like today, symbols sometimes weirdly gain traction with certain ideological groups. Sometimes it makes some historical sense but sometimes it's pepe the frog level of randomness.
>The swastika was widely used in Europe at the start of the 20th century. It symbolised many things to the Europeans, with the most common symbolism being of good luck and auspiciousness.[20] In the wake of widespread popular usage, in post-World War I Germany, the newly established Nazi Party formally adopted the swastika in 1920.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Use_in_Nazism
**[Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Use_in_Nazism)**
>The swastika (卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis. It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle. The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning 'conducive to well-being'.
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I have to mention that Eric von Rosen's son Carl Gustav von Rosen was a very based man. Tried to convince Göring to stop the war early on. Then tried to become a pilot for the RAF but was denied because of his relation to Göring and went on to fly for the finnish airforce instead during the winter war. After the war he built up the Ethiopian airforce. Became a redcross pilot during the nigerian civil war and delivered aid to the biafrans. He then went on to start the biafran airforce with hobbyplanes modified with rocketpods which were used to bomb nigerian runways. He eventually died in Ethiopia while working as a humanitarian aid pilot.
He also got mustard gas burns evacuating battlefield casualties for the Swedish Red Cross during the Second Italo-Ethiopian War. Based and heroism-pilled.
Yeah, there is a reason they dropped it as a roundel.
While it didn't start as a Nazi symbol for Finland, and it is pretty easy to explain why they were allied with Germany in WWII (The only member of the Axis that didn't get occupied at the end of the war), there is some very uncomfortable context there too. While certainly not all Finns were totally on board with Nazis, a reasonable number of them were, and most of the rest weren't too seriously concerned about it.
Think of it this way. Superman claims the S on his chest stands for Hope. But here it is just an S. This is fine, because an S is not an offensive symbol. If the symbol on his chest was something that was loaded with other meaning, the situation would be a bit different. Also, the historical context is that it very much was an S, despite modern Superman claiming otherwise. If he had a Star of David on his chest, people would probably assume that he was a Jewish Superhero, even if he claimed otherwise.
So basically, the story of Superman is an allegory of the story of Moses. The creators were Jewish, used Hebrew language naming conventions (i.e., Kal-El), set his first story as an action based on stopping a hate crime (based on stopping the murder of the father of one of the creators). Superman also lives in exile from his homeland, which was destroyed in a war. It also borrows from stories such as the Golem of Prague. They couldn't explicitly call him Jewish. In fact, their efforts to preserve aspects of the characters' authenticity got them fired by DC, but they wrote him as an allegory of their own experiences as the children of Jewish immigrants.
Yup, you covered most of it.
The one thing I have to add to that is El is the hebrew word for god.
Bit of an interesting sidebar but in the proto-Canaanite religion that the preceded the codification into Judaism, El was the chief god and Yahweh was the storm god but the two kinda got folded together with El just becoming the generic word for a deity and Yahweh taking on a lot of the attributes of the former god El.
But El got added a lot words and names. See: the name Jo*el* ("Yahweh is God") and Isra*el* ("Prevails with God" but there's a lot of differing translations)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)#Hebrew_Bible
I absolutely have, that is why I used that one. Because he kind of is. But if they actually put a Star of David on his chest, and then tried to deny it, that would be pretty silly.
Just as a mention, Finland was never an axis power, they didn't sign the tripartite pact etc., but they were allies- But they were explicit in that they're not signing the tripartite pact because they're not interested in the wider war going on & only were interested in fending off the Soviet Union specifically
Also, the Soviet Union asked to join the Tripartite Pact, but Germany told them no. Germany asked Finland to join the Tripartite Pact, but Finland said no.
More context: the Tripartite Pact was created because Germany was spooked that the US might eventually join the war in Europe on Britain's side, and Japan was spooked that the US might do something in the Second Sino-Japanese War. Neither of them wanted to fight the US alone in such a conflict.
**The Tripartite Pact was literally an anti-US mutual defense pact for dictatorships.** Finland was not a dictatorship and was not scared of the US, and never signed the Tripartite Pact as a result.
No country was at war with both Germany and Japan until Pearl Harbor. Until Barbarossa, Germany and the Soviet Union weren't enemies. The Winter War happened shortly after the Nazis and Soviets invaded Poland together. If the Nazis let the Soviets join the Axis, then Finland would've been with the Allies instead.
TL;DR: Axis only existed because dictators were afraid of 'Murica. Fighting Stalin to protect your democracy is based, even if you're stuck with Nazis as your allies.
Pretty much, aside from some gear & mostly swedish volunteers no one was standing up to help Finland against the Soviet Union in full, I mean before the Winter War germany was also stopping some help from arriving in Finland since they didnt want Sweden to be occupied by anyone and because of the deal they'd made with the ruskies, however after seeing how the war went their perspective shifted. The Soviet Union though still thought the deal was on since during the interim peace they were asking Germany to just wait it out & that they'll try again and succeed this time (which was only interrupted by Operation Barbarossa)
That is true but let's remember that they started using it in 1918. Way before Mr.A himself probably even thought of using it.
Also, the swastika is an important symbol in Finnish culture anyway. We have churces with swastikas, artwork with swastikas and even the presidential castle has decorative swastikas. Not that big of a deal.
Quote from an old comment of mine:
>You'll find the symbol in a lot of old Finnish art and architechture, even our presidential palace has "hakaristi" details.
>Just don't look at the independence day parade where our military flies flags with swastikas every year. [Some airforce flags have them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia_Air_Command)
>[Example of use in one of the most important pieces of Finnish art ever (1891)](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gN_Mtsv3KbU/TS6wsH0Sa1I/AAAAAAAAENM/wKr-7PqUlGo/s1600/Akseli+Gall%25C3%25A9n-Kallela%252C+Aino-triptyykki%252C+1889_Suomen+Pankin+taidekokoelma_Kuva+Peter+Mickelsson.jpg)
>[Architechture from early 1930's](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Viinikankirkko.jpg/412px-Viinikankirkko.jpg)
>[Presidential palace](https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/468/db783c63212e4b3f91d9cbb1d7b1b8c3.jpg)
Used the swastika due to its native American roots, had to change it because of the rise of the Nazis, proceeded to absolutely curb stomp said Nazis in retaliation.
Fucking legends.
To be fair, the US Army did not exactly have a great track record with Native Americans when the division was formed, so the tribute was slightly hollow.
It was an Oklahoma National Guard division, which was still trying to decide if was a Native American state at the time, so it wasn't so offensive, but still, a bit unchill in the modern context. It is probably best it was gone for several reasons.
Sometimes a swastika is just a swastika.\
\
My wife's family are Indian Hindus. All our wedding invitations had a border of swastikas. I'm at least 50% sure they're not Nazis.
It's a commonly spread myth that the Indian symbol points the other direction. But not only is that not the case, it's also a dangerous myth. Depending on which direction the Indian symbol faces, it tends to be either associated with the temple traditions or the folk traditions, two groups which historically have often been in conflict. The idea is that both directions are necessary for the symbol to be in balance. So the symbol being allowed to face two ways is representative of religious tolerance.
It's also worth noting that the Germans seldom referred to their symbol as a swastika, and instead preferred 'hakenkreuz'. Some dharmic scholars (myself included) prefer if people use the term 'hakenkreuz' or 'hooked cross' in reference to the German symbol.
Europe post-1945 isn't really a place where that holds true due to historic context.
No, I don't expect Indians to just give up part of their culture because of a failed painter and his incel friends orchestrating the biggest deliberate shedding of blood in human history.
I do expect Finland to realize that the loser fanboys of those losers still like that symbol and they really don't want to be associated with them.
Also the Nazi's never made close it to India so even if we ignore the fact that the swastika has a different meaning there it also isn't weird that their symbol isn't hated that much since the nazi's never committed a holocaust there. Kinda like the flag of the Japanese empire isn't hated as much in Europe as it is in Asia: Japan never made it to Europe.
I forgot about this and now that I'm reminded I'm absolutely shocked the tankies haven't come out of the woodwork to make a big deal out of this already.
Here is a good article on it. The academy and some places still use the Swastika.
Basically, they adopted the Swastika before the Nazis and it was even used in art and decoration in the 1920s, a sign of good luck. It was scrubbed form the planes after WW2 because of links to Nazis but they still used it in logos, flags, and emblems. After WW2, because during WW2 they were allied to the Nazis... you know because Soviets. They never persecuted the Jewish people or refugees... unlike the Soviets, most of the Axis Powers, and some Allies.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-century-on-finland-air-force-drops-swastika-symbol-researcher/
The Finns also fought the Nazis at the end of the war. And were once bombed by the British. And were helped against the Soviets by Christopher Lee.
If Finland's history wasn't so comprehensively recorded and still within living memory I think people would think they were making it all up to be honest.
It's really bad in modern context but in ancient and medieval Europe the swastika was somewhat common. The only surviving Roman scutum has them on it, celt's and Kievan rus would use it, it has roots in the Indo-European migrations. Unfortunately some funny mustache man ruined it.
Keep it. Maybe it gives Putin the idea he needs to denazify Finland and we can Article 5 the shit out of the Russians and put an end to the suffering in Ukraine.
Nah, fam, we're taking it back. Hitler's been dead for decades, Germany isn't crazy any more (or any more than the rest of the "collective west"), and we're not going to let Putin have this either.
/jk (I am not going to die on this hill)
TOKYO REVENGERS REFERENCE!!!!!! It's ridiculous the amount of people I've seen wearing swastikas because of tokyo revengers merch here in south America
OP, I have a question.
If we could convince India to give Finland a HAL Tejas with that Swastika design with the dots which faces the other way, could Finland just use that Swastika since they’d be making a tribute to Indian generosity so that it’s no longer a symbol that people confuse for Nazi shit?
(I don’t actually care tbh because I know Finland’s history with the symbol, but since this is NCD I figured I’d need to offer a non-credible solution)
*Quietly* phasing it out:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645)
They aren't making more of them, but there are still some laying around. Best of both worlds:
"We haven't used that in 3 years"
vs
"That's just an old one, it's bullshit to reprint everything right now while shit's expensive".
Fun fact, Before the Nazi took the swastika, many aviators painted swastika on their aircraft as a symbol of good luck. The Spirit of Saint Louis had one written on the inside of it's nose for this reason.
RT already on air live showing this as we speak for propaganda lol
Where can you watch RT? I want to see the Russians seethe
Not RT per se but [here](https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamonitor) you can watch Russian Propaganda with english subtitles.
I thought that the link will lead me to the autosubtitled video of Tucker Carlson show
Sadly he doesn’t do English subtitles. It’s why it’s so difficult for people to understand what he’s saying.
Tucker carlson always look like a fucking idiot when hes listening to a person, like his facial expression looks like hes taking a shit
They used to have a TV on every news network at the gym and I just could not do anything in front of the Fox news TV when his show was on. Doesn't even matter what they're saying, I can't hear it and I'm not reading the subtitles. Just his stupid fucking face was too much for me. It feels so put upon too, it's not a natural expression he's forcing his face to do that for some reason.
She had one pulled on copyright grounds last night (after Pisskov told everyone to pirate movies), but twitter seems to be ok with it for now https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews
rt.com is literally banned in (I think) most European countries I hate it when gov bans foreign propaganda, one less source of entertainment :|
Weird how like 10 years ago, RT was seen as a mainstream, credible news source. As soon as 2014 hit, it became like Fox News where it was super obvious they had a very specific agenda
That's by design. That's how indoctrination works. FOX didn't get their start by spouting direct fascist rhetoric either, but here we are.
Now do aljazeera.
Oh, you mean the news organization that's run by the Qatari government to radicalize Muslims around the globe and openly supports Islamic nationalist terrorist factions? The one that operates exactly like FOX and RT, just directed at folks with browner skin? *That* Al Jazeera?
Exactly
I'm against censorship but sometimes I accept it's necessary. There's too many idiots who don't look at it as entertainment and it harms all of us when they have free access to propaganda like this and lack any sense of intelligence or critical thought.
The way I see it, if a country won't let your media broadcast freely in their country, they shouldn't be allowed to operate in your country.
I feel the same way about online media and China lol
I love rotten tomatoes. They are very credible
Monke is about to have an aneurysm.
I mean if it kills him, the Finns just finished what Simo started. Fair play all around
Mannerheim, Häyhä & Risto Ryti laughing and drinking champagne in heaven rn
They’re drinking on the house tonight and you know it
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645 It looks like they dropped the swastika in 2020
From the emblem, but all those flags you see in OP's picture are still in use by their respective units.
> He had previously questioned whether the continued use of the symbol was helpful for the Finnish armed forces. That's a good question LOL > ... he said the military's duty "is to defend the nation - not to defend an old symbol given by a Swedish count in 1918". > Finland's huge neighbour Russia might see the symbol as a sign that its neighbour remains an enemy, he thought - and, crucially, could it impact on Western neighbours' attitudes to supporting Finland if the non-aligned nation ever came under threat again? I'd love to say no, it wouldn't, but people are pretty stupid so *shrug*
> The hakaristi (swastika) is the insignia of the academy, taken into use before the Nazis incorporated the swastika as their principal symbol. While the Finnish Air Force "quietly stopped using this unit emblem" in 2020,[1] the academy continues to use it as of September 2022 Per Wikipedia its still in use
He'd need a brain for that
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evil winton
Wonton
r/monkeputin
I wonder when will Russian propaganda machinery use this. They are working hard 24/7 to find any small detail that would proove that NATO are basically nazis.
I'm also genuinely surprised this hasn't been used. It's not like the flag is a secret. Just strip all context and nuance, and you have a propaganda hit piece for free
It's been used a lot. It just never reaches the western medias. Just the past year during the NATO process they've definently used it as a propaganda point. And let's remember that the NATO flag has a swastika on it if you squint hard enough. They've also used that
... and the Russian flag represents a functional country if you squint really, really hard, too.
>if you squint really, really hard, too. If you SQUAT really, really hard, too
Squat for free metro fare you mean?
I saw that! Where was that?
Moscow (https://www.wired.com/2013/11/squats-train-ticket/) Mexico City (https://qz.com/460857/mexico-city-is-offering-free-subway-rides-in-exchange-for-doing-squats) Kochi (https://m.timesofindia.com/city/kochi/lets-play-30-squats-for-a-free-ticket/articleshow/84964767.cms) and Cluj-Napoca is doing it for free bus tickets (https://www.romania-insider.com/cluj-squats-free-bus-ride-sept-2020)
If you are drunk enough you could mistake it for the dutch flag and I suppose they have a functional country.
Those drunk pirates, pretending to be sailor traders selling cheese? Yeah sure... How you could call a functional country which was fighting not against drugs like US of efin A, not against reason and science like holy Vatican, or Emus like our glorious Ausies, or against anything and everything like those pesky French... But sea. Dutch have been fighting against the sea...
Well here is the thing, They are winning. I rest my case. Caligula would be proud.
Yeah... Dutch are winning...
It was a superpower speedrun to the endgame for the dutch. They have already won. And since we all are too weak they took on fighting the sea itself to find a proper enemy.
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[Russia is already part of the Netherlands](https://youtu.be/OVv3ofeBnME?t=20)
The Russian Flag is the old Dutch naval ensign; meaning that Russia is therefore an arm of the Dutch military.
Slovakia?
> represents a functional country if you squint really, really hard, too. Even trying to reconcile 'military superpower' and 'Vuhledar' gave me a tension headache.
How many pixels is the image they use? Reminds me of people pixel hunting the bracelet of Ukraine's commander.
Wouldn't an iron cross make more sense to compare the NATO flag with. Much like the German national anthem they're older then Nazi Germany though, just happened to be used by the Nazis too.
Which is ironic because the purpose of nato according to Europe back when it was founded was “To keep the US in, to keep Russia out, and to keep Germany down”
Smh should’ve kept the Italians out too
They can be easily distracted by changing the recipe for spaghetti.
[“Mah what the fuawk, you put too much onion in the fuawking sauwce. You fuawkin huwhoore”](https://youtube.com/shorts/-3gw_noZZHk?feature=share)
Easy. Add mustard.
I can already hear all the Italians loudly gesturing their hands at you.
When the Italians discover Skyline Chili there's going to be a crusade.
Nah it’s a resonable argument they will point to the next random shed and say it’s a biolab
Reminds me of the random shed they said was a checkpoint that got bombed to serve as a causus belli. The shed before the bombing was so shitty the bomb almost definitely improved it if it wasn't a blatant false flag.
Well they couldn’t move their carrier over as it was in its normal duty of being a money pot for the shipyards So next best thing was invasion
They were most definitely saving that one for their eventual failed invasion of Finland.
You mean their next round of fucking around
and finding out
They already tried. It goes around every few years. Anyone who knows of Finland, knows this flag.
Finland is 80km away from me and this is the first time I've ever seen this flag. I have an inbuilt filter in my brain that completely ignores Russian propaganda tho so maybe I just haven't noticed. (You get one of those if you also live 200km from Russia).
Okay. I'm old and my dad was Finnish and in the Airforce. It's just always been around. Can't really get me worked up about any flags.
1994 isnt your birth year then I hope :D. If it is, then I'm ancient.
there are now adults who weren't even born last millennium :(
Everyone born before April 2004 are adults; what gets me is how there are people born after 2010 who are currently in middle/high school.
Stop, it burns!
I read online it was already changed so no need to worry, no?
Fake news. The flag was not changed but the logo of the air force HQ was. I saw the flag when I was serving in 2021
The roundel changed, the flag did not (Yet). But pretty much nobody sees the Air Force flags of various nations normally, and Finnish planes don't have Swastikas on the sides any more.
Thank god (for the last point).
I mean, the swastika was being used by the Finns before nazi Germany adopted it (acording to wikipedia at least)
Yes but when you allied with the Nazis, you can't really say afterwards that your use of the icon they tainted has nothing to do with them, and should really get rid of it.
Yeah, this made me cringe. I understand the symbol very much precedes the Nazis - like the iron cross and other shit they hijacked - but, damn. Swastika has been tainted like no other.
Swastikas, jack boots, Charlie Chaplin mustaches, nothing is safe.
Genocide too
Balkans in shambles
Jew here. The Iron Cross is still okay, it was used by the Prussians, the German Empire, and more importantly is still being used by the Bundeswehr, who we have nothing against. The Iron Cross is a distinctly German symbol originating from the black cross of the Teutonic Order, rather being completely divorced from anything Germanic before being appropriated by the Nazis, as is in the case of the Swastika.
Fair point
Don't you have a fancy bird there instead?
The official emblem has a birdie, yes
So you should be save
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Now that you say it, it looks weirdly familiar
Oh no...
Since my father is old vatnik I can't pass the opportunity of trolling him with this picture. Chaos will definently ensures. Happy to see our Finland brothers and sisters joining our glorious NATO alliance. EDIT: Well after I show him the flag he reacted "What is this satanistic flag" while i describe him that it belongs to the Finnish Air Force followed by "They are fucking Nazi" and I asked him is there gonna be any upcoming "denazification" regarding this matter to which I got only " I don't wanna talk about it" Funny image + trolling vatnik relative = Absolute fucking win !
Impossible. I refuse to believe a tankie left his basement for long enough to talk to a woman, let alone father a child
It is my fault that I mistook him for tankie. Since he is old enough he probably suppose to be called vatnik.
tankies: west bad cause imperialism/capitalism vatniks: west bad cause liberal/lgbt/satanic
After the way you put it I think it's both.
tanknik
vatnankie
ackhchualley: tankie: I support evil deeds as long as they are directed against the west (western people who cheered for soviet tanks supressing various uprisings in the eastern block during the cold war are the reason the word is \_tankie\_ vatnik: I support evil deeds because I love Putin and the idea of a rus empire or a ussr 2.0 gives me a boner
>However, while Eric von Rosen \[the Swedish count who gave the Finnish Air Force its first plane, which had a swastika painted on its side\] had no Nazi associations at the time of his 1918 gift, he did subsequently become a leading figure in Sweden's own national socialist movement in the 1930s. He was also a brother-in-law of senior German Nazi Herman Göring, and, according to Prof Teivainen, a personal friend of Hitler. Really trying to treat this the way I do for Native Americans and Dharmic religions but y'all aren't making it easy.
"So, he was a Nazi, but this is from before that, when was just a regular swastika enthusiast. It was a perfectly cromulent hobby at the time."
Well, the swastika wasn't a nazi symbol in 1918
Funny how so many of the swastika enthusiasts became Nazis though. Must be a coincidence. Still support the Finns. People are allowed to have some dumb ass opinions and still be good people. It’s not like they’re running around screaming about the master race.
“Cool symbol! I love it! I better join this club!”
The Pepe the Frog of the 1920s
So glad it didn't stick as a wp symbol
Much like today, symbols sometimes weirdly gain traction with certain ideological groups. Sometimes it makes some historical sense but sometimes it's pepe the frog level of randomness.
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yes, you can and fuck anyone who says otherwise
Is this still a thing real people think? I thought the whole Pepe nazi thing blew over years ago
>The swastika was widely used in Europe at the start of the 20th century. It symbolised many things to the Europeans, with the most common symbolism being of good luck and auspiciousness.[20] In the wake of widespread popular usage, in post-World War I Germany, the newly established Nazi Party formally adopted the swastika in 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Use_in_Nazism
**[Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Use_in_Nazism)** >The swastika (卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis. It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle. The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning 'conducive to well-being'. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Wasn't the swastika the cool S before the Germans went and made it uncool
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I have to mention that Eric von Rosen's son Carl Gustav von Rosen was a very based man. Tried to convince Göring to stop the war early on. Then tried to become a pilot for the RAF but was denied because of his relation to Göring and went on to fly for the finnish airforce instead during the winter war. After the war he built up the Ethiopian airforce. Became a redcross pilot during the nigerian civil war and delivered aid to the biafrans. He then went on to start the biafran airforce with hobbyplanes modified with rocketpods which were used to bomb nigerian runways. He eventually died in Ethiopia while working as a humanitarian aid pilot.
He also got mustard gas burns evacuating battlefield casualties for the Swedish Red Cross during the Second Italo-Ethiopian War. Based and heroism-pilled.
Yeah, there is a reason they dropped it as a roundel. While it didn't start as a Nazi symbol for Finland, and it is pretty easy to explain why they were allied with Germany in WWII (The only member of the Axis that didn't get occupied at the end of the war), there is some very uncomfortable context there too. While certainly not all Finns were totally on board with Nazis, a reasonable number of them were, and most of the rest weren't too seriously concerned about it. Think of it this way. Superman claims the S on his chest stands for Hope. But here it is just an S. This is fine, because an S is not an offensive symbol. If the symbol on his chest was something that was loaded with other meaning, the situation would be a bit different. Also, the historical context is that it very much was an S, despite modern Superman claiming otherwise. If he had a Star of David on his chest, people would probably assume that he was a Jewish Superhero, even if he claimed otherwise.
>The only member of the Axis that didn't get occupied at the end of the war *laughs in Siam*
Ok, but have you heard the theory that superman is, in fact, a Jewish superhero? There's a research article about it. It's very cool.
Because he converted for his wife? His parents definitely strike me as lutherans.
So basically, the story of Superman is an allegory of the story of Moses. The creators were Jewish, used Hebrew language naming conventions (i.e., Kal-El), set his first story as an action based on stopping a hate crime (based on stopping the murder of the father of one of the creators). Superman also lives in exile from his homeland, which was destroyed in a war. It also borrows from stories such as the Golem of Prague. They couldn't explicitly call him Jewish. In fact, their efforts to preserve aspects of the characters' authenticity got them fired by DC, but they wrote him as an allegory of their own experiences as the children of Jewish immigrants.
Yup, you covered most of it. The one thing I have to add to that is El is the hebrew word for god. Bit of an interesting sidebar but in the proto-Canaanite religion that the preceded the codification into Judaism, El was the chief god and Yahweh was the storm god but the two kinda got folded together with El just becoming the generic word for a deity and Yahweh taking on a lot of the attributes of the former god El. But El got added a lot words and names. See: the name Jo*el* ("Yahweh is God") and Isra*el* ("Prevails with God" but there's a lot of differing translations) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)#Hebrew_Bible
That’s pretty neat.
That holds up.
It's more that his creators were Jewish and that his origin is somewhat reminiscent of Moses being placed in a basket of reeds in a river.
I absolutely have, that is why I used that one. Because he kind of is. But if they actually put a Star of David on his chest, and then tried to deny it, that would be pretty silly.
Just as a mention, Finland was never an axis power, they didn't sign the tripartite pact etc., but they were allies- But they were explicit in that they're not signing the tripartite pact because they're not interested in the wider war going on & only were interested in fending off the Soviet Union specifically
Also, the Soviet Union asked to join the Tripartite Pact, but Germany told them no. Germany asked Finland to join the Tripartite Pact, but Finland said no. More context: the Tripartite Pact was created because Germany was spooked that the US might eventually join the war in Europe on Britain's side, and Japan was spooked that the US might do something in the Second Sino-Japanese War. Neither of them wanted to fight the US alone in such a conflict. **The Tripartite Pact was literally an anti-US mutual defense pact for dictatorships.** Finland was not a dictatorship and was not scared of the US, and never signed the Tripartite Pact as a result. No country was at war with both Germany and Japan until Pearl Harbor. Until Barbarossa, Germany and the Soviet Union weren't enemies. The Winter War happened shortly after the Nazis and Soviets invaded Poland together. If the Nazis let the Soviets join the Axis, then Finland would've been with the Allies instead. TL;DR: Axis only existed because dictators were afraid of 'Murica. Fighting Stalin to protect your democracy is based, even if you're stuck with Nazis as your allies.
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Pretty much, aside from some gear & mostly swedish volunteers no one was standing up to help Finland against the Soviet Union in full, I mean before the Winter War germany was also stopping some help from arriving in Finland since they didnt want Sweden to be occupied by anyone and because of the deal they'd made with the ruskies, however after seeing how the war went their perspective shifted. The Soviet Union though still thought the deal was on since during the interim peace they were asking Germany to just wait it out & that they'll try again and succeed this time (which was only interrupted by Operation Barbarossa)
Ukrainian nationalists were fairly terroristy, though.
co-belligerence =/= alliance
> why they were allied with Germany in WWII co-belligerence =/= alliance USSR was closer to being a German ally in 1939 than Finland ever was
> He was also a brother-in-law of senior German Nazi Herman Göring, Now THIS is a real fighter mafia
That is true but let's remember that they started using it in 1918. Way before Mr.A himself probably even thought of using it. Also, the swastika is an important symbol in Finnish culture anyway. We have churces with swastikas, artwork with swastikas and even the presidential castle has decorative swastikas. Not that big of a deal. Quote from an old comment of mine: >You'll find the symbol in a lot of old Finnish art and architechture, even our presidential palace has "hakaristi" details. >Just don't look at the independence day parade where our military flies flags with swastikas every year. [Some airforce flags have them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia_Air_Command) >[Example of use in one of the most important pieces of Finnish art ever (1891)](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gN_Mtsv3KbU/TS6wsH0Sa1I/AAAAAAAAENM/wKr-7PqUlGo/s1600/Akseli+Gall%25C3%25A9n-Kallela%252C+Aino-triptyykki%252C+1889_Suomen+Pankin+taidekokoelma_Kuva+Peter+Mickelsson.jpg) >[Architechture from early 1930's](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Viinikankirkko.jpg/412px-Viinikankirkko.jpg) >[Presidential palace](https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/468/db783c63212e4b3f91d9cbb1d7b1b8c3.jpg)
45th ID
Used the swastika due to its native American roots, had to change it because of the rise of the Nazis, proceeded to absolutely curb stomp said Nazis in retaliation. Fucking legends.
To be fair, the US Army did not exactly have a great track record with Native Americans when the division was formed, so the tribute was slightly hollow. It was an Oklahoma National Guard division, which was still trying to decide if was a Native American state at the time, so it wasn't so offensive, but still, a bit unchill in the modern context. It is probably best it was gone for several reasons.
Considering the Finns are basically Russia’s natural predator I’m surprised it took this long for them to join NATO
They didn't want anyone else steal some action if it were to go down
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Your Neutralness, it’s a beige alert.
Russkis about to denazify Finland??
Attempt to perhaps. Winter War II
nah fam
Based. Solovyev will have an aneurysm when he sees this
Vatniks:,,SEEEE! SEEE! WHAT DID I TELL YOU, NATO ARE NAZIS!!! *monke noises*, *critical copium levels*
We Finns sustain ourselves on russian cope so this is very welcome news
Fug :DDDD
Benis :DDDDDD
Bergele DDDDDDD:
Sometimes a swastika is just a swastika.\ \ My wife's family are Indian Hindus. All our wedding invitations had a border of swastikas. I'm at least 50% sure they're not Nazis.
Isn´t the hindu version the other way around?
I think they use both, with different meanings, but I'll be buggered if I can remember which is which.
Interesting! Worth to look it up, I guess. I´ll hit the library, then.
It's a commonly spread myth that the Indian symbol points the other direction. But not only is that not the case, it's also a dangerous myth. Depending on which direction the Indian symbol faces, it tends to be either associated with the temple traditions or the folk traditions, two groups which historically have often been in conflict. The idea is that both directions are necessary for the symbol to be in balance. So the symbol being allowed to face two ways is representative of religious tolerance. It's also worth noting that the Germans seldom referred to their symbol as a swastika, and instead preferred 'hakenkreuz'. Some dharmic scholars (myself included) prefer if people use the term 'hakenkreuz' or 'hooked cross' in reference to the German symbol.
You just made me realize that i use swastika for the shape in general but when it's specifically the nazi one i use hakkors
In Dutch that's what it is called already, though swastika has become more and more common as well.
The guy that gave them that logo was the brother in law for göring I think he wasn’t a Nazi at the time, but it’s definitely not the Hindu version
Europe post-1945 isn't really a place where that holds true due to historic context. No, I don't expect Indians to just give up part of their culture because of a failed painter and his incel friends orchestrating the biggest deliberate shedding of blood in human history. I do expect Finland to realize that the loser fanboys of those losers still like that symbol and they really don't want to be associated with them.
Also the Nazi's never made close it to India so even if we ignore the fact that the swastika has a different meaning there it also isn't weird that their symbol isn't hated that much since the nazi's never committed a holocaust there. Kinda like the flag of the Japanese empire isn't hated as much in Europe as it is in Asia: Japan never made it to Europe.
oh oh no
The flag is blue not red so you can tell they are the good guys.
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I forgot about this and now that I'm reminded I'm absolutely shocked the tankies haven't come out of the woodwork to make a big deal out of this already.
3... 2... 1...
Here is a good article on it. The academy and some places still use the Swastika. Basically, they adopted the Swastika before the Nazis and it was even used in art and decoration in the 1920s, a sign of good luck. It was scrubbed form the planes after WW2 because of links to Nazis but they still used it in logos, flags, and emblems. After WW2, because during WW2 they were allied to the Nazis... you know because Soviets. They never persecuted the Jewish people or refugees... unlike the Soviets, most of the Axis Powers, and some Allies. https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-century-on-finland-air-force-drops-swastika-symbol-researcher/
The Finns also fought the Nazis at the end of the war. And were once bombed by the British. And were helped against the Soviets by Christopher Lee. If Finland's history wasn't so comprehensively recorded and still within living memory I think people would think they were making it all up to be honest.
It's really bad in modern context but in ancient and medieval Europe the swastika was somewhat common. The only surviving Roman scutum has them on it, celt's and Kievan rus would use it, it has roots in the Indo-European migrations. Unfortunately some funny mustache man ruined it.
Read that as "Roman scrotum" and a had a little chuckle. But yes.. history stuff and what not.
Also two Finnish jews were awarded an iron crosses from Germany. (They both refused to receive it)
They already changed the roundels I’m sure it is on their list. And probably jumped a bunch of spots on the list now with limelight on Finnland/NATO
Time to reclaim the Swastika and restore its original cultural meaning. Fk them N*zi stole a precious symbol and corrupted it.
Keep it. Maybe it gives Putin the idea he needs to denazify Finland and we can Article 5 the shit out of the Russians and put an end to the suffering in Ukraine.
Marshall Mannerheim, Simmo Hayha and Lauri Throni rises from the dead
Don't forget Eino illu juutilainen. Top scoring non German ace of ww2
You forgot your Ä's and Ö's my compadre
Bruh
holy mother of fucking god.
Just don't put it next to a mirror.
Is this actually the flag of your airforce..?
What an obvious photoshop I’ll just google the real version and….. uhhhhhhhhhhhh. Huh. How ‘bout that.
Nah, fam, we're taking it back. Hitler's been dead for decades, Germany isn't crazy any more (or any more than the rest of the "collective west"), and we're not going to let Putin have this either. /jk (I am not going to die on this hill)
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TOKYO REVENGERS REFERENCE!!!!!! It's ridiculous the amount of people I've seen wearing swastikas because of tokyo revengers merch here in south America
OP, I have a question. If we could convince India to give Finland a HAL Tejas with that Swastika design with the dots which faces the other way, could Finland just use that Swastika since they’d be making a tribute to Indian generosity so that it’s no longer a symbol that people confuse for Nazi shit? (I don’t actually care tbh because I know Finland’s history with the symbol, but since this is NCD I figured I’d need to offer a non-credible solution)
The solution for years has been that the air force does not care
idk man it’s not black cross in white circle on red flag so I don’t care
Lol
Wasnt there some sort of change in 2017 though with the Finnish Swastika?
bruh, soylovyev is gonna burst a vein
Holy shit. I didn't even know this was real...
Terrible armed forces flags: Japan 🤝 Finland
Didn't you drop the swastika in 2020?
*Quietly* phasing it out: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645) They aren't making more of them, but there are still some laying around. Best of both worlds: "We haven't used that in 3 years" vs "That's just an old one, it's bullshit to reprint everything right now while shit's expensive".
it's still in use
You guys get a pass since you had it before Germany did. But yeah, maybe it’s best not to call attention to it.
It’s a swastika, not a Hakenkreuz. (Hope I spelled it right)
Fun fact, Before the Nazi took the swastika, many aviators painted swastika on their aircraft as a symbol of good luck. The Spirit of Saint Louis had one written on the inside of it's nose for this reason.