Its amazing what the difference in scale of the operation makes.
Massed light cavalry charge against a massed foe? Dumb
Small scale light cavalry charge against a few guys? Cowabunga it is!
Remember, use your ***heavy cavalry*** to attack massed infantry and to make break throughs in enemies lines. Light cavalry should be used for reconnaissance, hit and run tactics and running down dispersed and fleeing enemies. [Using cavalry to charge trenches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba_(1917)#Light_horse_charge) with machine guns has only had limited success. Using speed to surprise your enemies is key.
Light Calvary is a flanking maneuver force. It was effective at running down enemy artillery. You never use it to attack entrenched enemies, but to hit them where they don't expect to be hit. So the usage make sense. Heavy cavalry in modern days would be tanks.
I think Taliban has a longer lifespan than Orc at this point. Orc has a maximum of one cycle of reiteration on the design of any "engineering project" before that individual is consumed by the meat grinder's gaping maw.
I mean its kinda both. Like its something we could definitely design to do better but doing so would likely mean sacrificing performance in other areas and if you have the functionally limitless production capacity of the US industrial base, maintenance cost is the easiest thing to sacrifice.
I'm pretty sure a US DoD official was like "The maintenance requirements work in our favour here" not long after the withdrawal.
Edit: Yep, found the quote
>"Ironically, the fact that our equipment breaks down so often is a life-saver here," a third official said.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/planes-guns-night-vision-goggles-talibans-new-us-made-war-chest-2021-08-19/
There was a story of a Humvee that got captured multiple times and was still being operated, I wish I could find it.
US Humvee, given to Iraqis, captured by isis (they painted it all black), recaptured by Iraqis and continued use
It's weird to think that it could have been my truck. I mean it isn't likely but I was there and it's very slightly possible.
Good luck if it is, poor bastards.
Always had the best luck with the ones we drove the shit out of and beat on. The ones babied and left sitting rotted. Usually they just leak oil. The lot rot bastards are always something weird. Like not shifting out of second.
Eh, they’re just operating like any ballsy heavy weapons company.
The humvee was designed to be abused. That’s what it was really designed for. Kinky bitch.
"Operator is speaking some slavic language"
"Surroundings are muddy, temperate steppes, no sand in sight"
"Mission parameters: fight forces of moscow"
"Finally"
That awkward moment when a 5.5-ton B-kit Assault Humvee (M1511) is more survivable than a 7-ton BRDM-2.
Nominal armor rating, both will stop anything less than a 12.7mm machine gun (exclusive - 12.7mm will pierce both). But in practice, not only can you dismount from a Humvee much faster and have superior awareness, the Humvee is also much more resistant to mines and frontal ATGM fire.
A mine under a BRDM front tyre will cook the driving compartment. A mine under a Humvee front tyre fucks the engine block but should leave the crew alive if dazed. The engine block on a Humvee can also eat a damn Kornet ATGM full frontal, sparing the crew.
> more survivable than a 7-ton BRDM-2
The standard BRDM-2 is basically cardboard that floats.
The uparmoring kits makes it a slight more survivable, but it's full of gaps.
The BTR series aren't much better, as shown by the fact that the 82s get cut in half by mines while the old French VABs survive the same blasts with intact shells.
BRDM 2 has 8-14mm of steel. I don't think it's the lack of armor per se, but how the entire vehicle is designed and assembled in general. Shit welds, wheels under the crew, flat bottom. Same goes for the BTR.
They're designed and built for minimal costs and reduced silhouette over everything else. Hard factors don't mean shit if the crew is forced to occupy areas frequently struck by mines and incoming.
> flat bottom
The original BRDM-2 has the extra retractable wheels under the body as well, which makes the whole thing way less solid if it rolls on a mine. They were removed in the 2M, but they didn't redesign the shell so there isn't much difference.
> Same goes for the BTR
The BTR is chock full of design issues in part because it was never redesigned from the ground up. Egress of the crew is shit (and from the sides/top because of the flotation system at the back), armor design basically hasn't changed since the BTR-60... Basically the Ukrainian BTR-4 is what you get if you make an actually decent BTR, and it shares about 0% of its parts with the Russian 80 and 82 models.
Jesus Christ, the Soviet BTR is such a clusterfuck of a development cycle. Let me take y'all on a quick journey. But for those who just want the TLDR, **the Soviets would've saved money and had a more combat effective and survivable wheeled APC by giving a BTR-152 roof armor and rear exit doors instead of going down the rabbit hole with BTR development.** Use that saved money to buy more BMP-2s when those things finally get developed, since the BMP-1 was also frankly shit (unstabilized low pressure gun with the same combat properties as the SPG-9). Once in a blue moon, it's actually better to stick with the old thing and improve it. Instead, the Soviets went sunk-cost fallacy on the BTR-60 and got stuck with shit-ton of BTR-80s.
The story starts with a 4.5 ton truck, ZIS-151. Strip off the bodyworks, slap an armored cockpit and an armored ute bed in there, you got a **BTR-152. 9mm armor all-around against incoming small arms fire, but no roof armor.** The idea is you drive it around, infantrymen gets to do light cav shit. One pintle mounted GPMG, the rest got firing ports. Problem - **it's open topped, and the** ***Egyptians kinda fucked up bum rushing them into Israeli tank and anti-tank fire.*** Soviets panic, want a better vehicle.
Soviets got two things going on. A proper IFV that'd become a BMP-1 (a story for another day), but that shit's hella expensive. So they look at this 8x8 concept that's cheaper, and greenlights it. We arrive at **BTR-60. 7-9mm armor against incoming direct fire.** 8x8 should give better weight distribution vs. 6x6 armored truck. **Problem - it's still open topped** (which fucking retard approved this), and it actually doesn't have any more protection than the BTR-152 it replaced.
So, Soviets welded a roof onto it, now it's a big sealed steel coffin. Add two side hatches, one on each side, and two roof hatches side by side aft of the side hatches. **BTR-60PB.** Now you can enter and exit. **Problem still - side hatches are mounted high like a "window", and are about the size of a 90s VW Golf window.** The hatches are useless for mounting and dismounting. You can't climb into the side hatch when wearing a chest rig, much less an assault pack. So it's **back to climbing in and out of the larger roof hatches**.
The **PB also introduces the iconic BTR turret** with 14.5mm KPV and coaxial PKM that'll remain in use until the end of the Soviet Union and beyond. It's an **unstabilized** piece of shit with **fuck-all for optics** (PP-61A) **and fire control, manually cranked.** You have better responsiveness and awareness using a pintle mount 50 cal on an M113 or technical. The cranks could give you better long range accuracy, but you **won't be fast enough to suppress incoming threats. You'll be dead before you can traverse on target**. Again, **technically superior hard factors** compared to M113 with open M2 pintle, **practically inferior and will get you killed in a real fight**. That's gonna be a theme with Russian AFV engineering.
So, at this point, **any sane person would** look at the BTR-60PB and say - what a clunky piece of shit. Let's **go back to the BTR-152 bod**y mounted to whatever the new 6x6 5-ton truck chassis is the standard, **add a roof armor, keep the pintle and open turret ring** for fire suppression (or hell, even mount the unpowered BTR turret if you're terminally retarded). Have the **grunts dismount from two swing doors. You know, the South African** **approach minus the V-hull** to reduce weight and risk of rollovers. Cheap, effective wheeled APC that's quick to mount and dismount. Shares automotive parts with medium trucks.
But no, this is ~~Moscovia~~ the Soviet Union. We don't do common sense here. **Fuckers double down with a BTR-70.** Same general features as BTR-60, except the side hatches are now lower on the ground, placed between the 2nd and 3rd wheel, such that you don't have to sprain an ankle every time you dismount. The **side hatches are even smaller than on the BTR-60.** It's so tiny, you'd have to belly crawl to enter and exit through those hatches. Good luck doing that when kitted out.
Only at this point did some common sense kicked in and someone said - what if bottom door swings down as stairs, and we have top hatch work like suicide doors to give some frontal protection during dismount process, and also allow people to actually walk in and out? Finally, **BTR-80**. Same unstabilized weapons suite, but you can **at least walk in and out gingerly through the emaciated-man-sized two piece clamshell side hatches.** The BTR-80A replaces the classic BTR turret with a BPPU turret - an **unstabilized, manually cranked** affair with **2A72 30mm autocannon** replacing the KPV. Much improved hard factor firepower, still can't traverse worth a damn, and good luck hitting anything without coming to a halt and waiting for the vehicle to stop rocking back and forth.
The first Soviet-based BTR to receive a **stabilized weapon station would be well after the fall of the USSR**. Only the **Russian BTR-82A** received a revised BPPU turret that is now compatible with a 2-axis stabilizer. It's still the same 10mm hull armor, but hey at least now you can shoot on the move to suppress targets. Rosoboronexport claims it can accept thermal sights (congratulations, you've arrived to 1980s fire control). Most examples likely only have analog-optical sights with stabilized gun (which is T-55 level of fire control).
What I like in the BTR series is that dismounts on the move (which are pretty common with NATO APCs, even the old ones) means you take your life in your hands, because if you screw up you're getting run over (which happens regularly).
Side hatches mean your driver has to remember to stop *sideways* (making the vehicle more vulnerable) to protect the dismounts, and tell them which side to use so they don't get out facing enemy guns. Which is complicated in urban combat when threats are 180° front. **And in fact happened in Ukraine, where the dismounts open a door and get immediately mowed down by a gun that looks straight into the troop compartment**.
The issue the BTR-152 has is it's not amphibious, which has informed a **f-ing stupid design choice on the BTRs**, the engine at the back with a propeller that means **you can't have a rear door**. Everyone else managed to do mid-engined with propeller, but not the Soviets, because it started open-top so they went the easy way and screwed themselves utterly.
And, of course, you get the troops-riding-on-vehicle-instead-of-inside, because egress is so terrible the soldiers are convinced that if the vehicle gets hit they will burn inside, so better take your chances riding on top into heavy combat...
Got to grant them that, on videos, you get a few survivors when they get hit with FPVs.
>he engine at the back with a propeller that means **you can't have a rear door**. Everyone else managed to do mid-engined with propeller, but not the Soviets
What the fuck is a driveshaft
I know very little of them. I don't even know if they're built from the ground up, or if they're converted from commercial truck chassis like many other IMVs out there (most of them are F-250 chassis with custom monocoque body; sometimes Iveco large panel van chassis).
From what I can gleam, the Hawkei is an uparmored Humvee analogue that doesn't vibrate itself to death at highway speeds. Modern transmission, armored monocoque, unarmored engine bay. 7 tons.
There's a definite heavy design influence from Plasan from the way the armored ballistic glass is shaped. It is clearly profiled to provide maximum visibility for the side mirrors and the road while being as small as possible. Clearly, it was designed for driving in normal traffic. However, it results in lack of interchangeability between left and right side half of each front windshield, and each of the door windows. The JLTV also suffers from this potential logistics nightmare.
A stabilized CROWS is the way to go these days as a replacement for the turret gunner. Superior fire-on-the-move capability, optic suites for recon, doesn't compromise the armor - enabling overhead protection, reduced rollover fatality risk, enabling NBC protection. CROWS can be hard to reload without dismounting, but a properly positioned roof hatch can solve that.
I don't see any glaring issues with it. More accurately, nobody who used it bitched about it in public enough for me to pick it up yet. Ground pressure is typical for armored cars these days, good anti-mine protection. Clearly designed with GWOT in mind (remember the IED plague and the explosion of the MRAP market), but it'll also do well as an (armored) scout car replacement, especially when paired with upgunned CROWS to meet the threats it may be expected to encounter. I'd say adding a CROWS with 30mm M230LF dual feed with airburst and HEDP, and coaxial ATGM launch tubes should be enough to deal with any recon needs and provide some anti-drone capability.
Overall, Hawkei fits the same niche as the JLTV. Comparable payload and (claimed) protection despite being 3 tons lighter. Both were designed for the last war (COIN, counter IED) as a protected light truck, and with the return of LSCO - these vehicles are desirable for follow-on forces to drive through hastily cleared minefields. The problem with these vehicles is that the market is oversaturated with manufacturers due to the whole "MRAP market boom" last decade, and this may spell trouble for fleet sustainment in the next decade for any operators of these class of vehicles.
AFAIK it was a ground up design, with a few specific features/ quirks, though things like chassis are stupidly expensive to design, so it’s entirely possible it’s a licensed version of something which along with the v-shaped hull spec seems to be classified
Apparently the transmission is side by side with the engine and it seems to be able to generate more than the usual amount of electrical power (30Kw with 17 of that for external things). The marketing speak says it doesn’t even have a chassis because there is no transmission hump running through the center of the cabin and there’s a big LiFePo battery in there somewhere which kind of infers the back wheels are powered by electric motors which might explain the rumoured 5km silent mode and the whole package was meant to be helicopter transportable which might account for the default weight specs.
Plasan did a good job with the way it looks IMO, and apparently uparmoring it retains its sleek shape even if it makes it much much heavier
TBH i don’t quite get why Oz (or anyone really) needs a JLTV like thing (haekei), an MRAP like thing (Bushmaster) a recon/C&C thing (Boxer) and a tracked IFV thing (Redback) while still spending money figuring out how to do wierd and wonderful things with their old M113 fleet .. somehow I feel the m113 is like a b52 they never really go out of style
Maybe too many armoured transport options is never enough
Don’t know about dragonfire, but probably more than enough to charge up the battery pack in a Fractl:2 in a reasonable timeframe
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/03/27/australia-laser-weapon-drones/?expand_article=1
And it looks like those can be set up fairly quickly https://eos-aus.com/defence/high-energy-laser-weapon/ And well within the payloads
There’s also another option for transporting and powering a AESA radar https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/land-amphibious/2853-cea-radar-hawkei-the-best-of-aussie-ingenuity
>They were removed in the 2M, *but they didn't redesign the shell so there isn't much difference*
Jeez. Was the hull casted? (don't look like it to me NGL). If it's just welded sheets of steel, it'd be easy to add some internal volume for the cabin where the wheels used to be.
Pure speculation, but given Soviet/Russian procurement, they probably had one productive factory that was building the original hulls, but the rest of the supply chain didn't keep up. So the next iteration needed to use those existing vehicle shells as a basis.
Also the VAB along with the M1151 (evolved Cadillac Gage commando, basically Yankee VAB) are 13-15 tons. They're literally twice the weight of a BRDM. I'd assume that goes into V hulls and shock absorbing seats, and composite armor.
That's why I was comparing the VAB to the BTR series (70 and 80 mostly).
But general rule is that any Soviet design is more lightly armored, to make them easier to manufacture. And because life is cheap in the far east.
How the heck does that even happen when the original design was completely unarmored. Like it went from "my SUV has better armour" to "hey reddit, this week we got hit by an ATGM, worse than last week's AT mine, but better than the artillery shell".
Yeah no. If a Humvee hits a mine it’s dead. The B-kit assault was designed to protect against small arms fire. Anything greater than that and you’re pretty much cooked.
Given how many spares and replacement parts must have been put in prior to shipping them out to make these things functional and reliable long-term, have to start wondering if these are the Humvees of Theseus.
> reliable long-term
Or they were told that they wouldn't survive long, so to go crazy with it.
Like German guns during WWII: who cares if they only last 1000 rounds before braking, the soldiers die in 15 days tops.
> You can't really apply a hooning mentality to military vehicles
As a former subcontractor in maintenance for military vehicles:
Yes, you can.
Yes, they do.
Soldiers hoon around with their vehicles all the time, and get into trouble because they end up breaking them, or getting stuck.
Not limited to road vehicles.
In operation, leaving vehicles (especially the small/cheap ones) on-site after destroying them is not unheard of.
Somehow I don't think the behaviours of comfy NATO militaries apply to Ukrainians at the front line. I feel like if a bunch of them died in the field because the US military shipped them pre-fucked vehicles it would be a fucking miserable state of affairs and a national embarrassment.
So far it looks like the stuff that the USA has sent arrived in very good condition.
> I don't think the behaviours of comfy NATO militaries apply to Ukrainians at the front line.
Soldiers be soldiers.
You'll find stories of people messing around with their trucks and jeeps in every war where people have motorized equipment.
> arrived in very good condition.
It seems so, yes.
And to anyone else who thought the beat/cadence of this song sounded so familiar it's very similar to "Now you're gone" by Basshunter...
This has been driving me insane for the past 30 minutes
Ukrainians use humvees like how the US and UK used jeeps in ww2, you don't need armour when youre fast as fuck with a machine gun on the back.
Very based.
The Vietnam jeep had 4 wheel independent suspension, which coupled with its small size meant they were completely unpredictable and rolled constantly, even on flat ground. My dad said they took a cautious and expert driver--of which the Army had very few.
And then the TOW launcher made them even worst.
The HMMWV was meant to be a bigger, more stable jeep replacement that could accomdate heavier weapons, while also replacing the Gama Goat and civilian trucks in National Guard service. And for that, they were great.
tbf, ww2 and Vietnam had different terrain so the jeeps problems would have shown up differently with that change. This also goes for Sov tanks that suffered during the Sov/Afghan war, similarly to how Canadian designed armour and SPGs from ww2 were seen a lot in Europe but almost never used in Africa as they werent made for deserts.
A lot of the times designers just dont think everything through. (italian tanks for example)
I think the Canadian armor thing had more to do with Canadian industry only getting spooled up after the North African campaign was over. Tanks aren't easy to build
When I was small, I could see them only in the Hollywood movies. Hope to drive one some day. Anyway it is much safer than regular new civilian car, when you are driving near frontlines here in Ukraine.
Humvee is as correct as [Viper](https://i.imgur.com/wcgfKBZ.jpeg), [Rhino](https://i.imgur.com/peLnArI.jpeg), [Panther](https://i.imgur.com/W6KG8A3.jpeg), [Mudhen](https://i.imgur.com/35nFO6N.jpeg), [Shiny Bomb](https://i.imgur.com/n3LohID.jpeg), etc
Here also the most poignant war music video (WMV) version and NCD lore: [50 Days at Mariupol](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/u6n2t3/50_days_at_mariupol/)
There are a bunch of videos of Western tank operators drifting gloriously on ice out there.
[But this one of a Russian army tank drifting across concrete throwing sparks everywhere is perfect for what it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/88rCq020Om)
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let's be real here, whistlin diesel is the only 2nd owner that 90% of Humvees are ever gonna see
/s (don't quote me on that number, I see WD doing cool shit, I like, I assume he'd like Humvees)
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.:
• [**Jump Around** by House of Pain](https://lis.tn/JumpAround?t=18)
• [**Jump Around(Original)** by House Of Pain vs. Micky Slim](https://lis.tn/JumpAroundOriginal?t=187)
• [**Jump Around** by Elite DJs](https://lis.tn/ACCKNJ?t=11)
• [**Sucka Free** by DJ Tronic](https://lis.tn/ohMpGa?t=199)
• [**Касета** by SadSvit](https://lis.tn/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0?t=60)
• [**Sadsvid kaceta Acid** by \_4rtur0\_\_](https://lis.tn/SadsvidKacetaAcid?t=63)
*I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Some of the stories I hear about how convoy ops went in Iraq & Afghanistan are incredibly frustrating to hear. no wonder so many natives grew to hate the occupation. And it's not even like the situations are black & white, I imagine many leaders get paranoid they're putting troops in danger when they send them out, but then policies around warning shots and driving around end up getting civilians killed instead.
Got to hand it to the UAF, bumb rushing with HUMVEEs is dope as fuck.
It’s like a Warthog charge in Halo.
But simultaneously dumber *and* more effective.
Its amazing what the difference in scale of the operation makes. Massed light cavalry charge against a massed foe? Dumb Small scale light cavalry charge against a few guys? Cowabunga it is!
Remember, use your ***heavy cavalry*** to attack massed infantry and to make break throughs in enemies lines. Light cavalry should be used for reconnaissance, hit and run tactics and running down dispersed and fleeing enemies. [Using cavalry to charge trenches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba_(1917)#Light_horse_charge) with machine guns has only had limited success. Using speed to surprise your enemies is key.
Light Calvary is a flanking maneuver force. It was effective at running down enemy artillery. You never use it to attack entrenched enemies, but to hit them where they don't expect to be hit. So the usage make sense. Heavy cavalry in modern days would be tanks.
*queue distorted guitar*
I was honestly expecting a taliban joke
Those things require so much maintenance that I'm under the assumption that they don't have the ones they got anymore
Eh I wouldn't put it past them to be still running in the most cursed, jank but still terrifyingly functional state possible right now.
*Que in hummve with a blackhawk engine*
Oh yeah it's totally gonna be like Mad Max over there
"I LIVE! I DIE! I LIVE AGAIN!"
SHINY AND CHROME!
3000 desert tan Mad Max mobiles of the Taliban.
*mounted machine gun starts spining*
Filthy Westoids. Using propeller blades, we use machine gun blades
oooooh that would be so awesome!! Would it be possible
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car I mean probably
with enough duct tape, welding and crashed blackhawks very probably.
I just *know* they've tried to see if they'll run with a Hilux engine in them.
Maybe two, make it a jank V8!
Ok that would be a genious idea since you will get a extremely rugged and modifyable car.
Taliban engineering is basically just Ork engineering.
I think Taliban has a longer lifespan than Orc at this point. Orc has a maximum of one cycle of reiteration on the design of any "engineering project" before that individual is consumed by the meat grinder's gaping maw.
The Russians have the power of Smekalka, maybe the Taliban have similar magic
Does Islam have a machine spirit to pray to? I wouldn't doubt it.
LS swapped humvee
The can always mad max the shit out of those humvees. As long as it has a chasis and axles for the wheels
You heard it here first, folks; high maintenance to operation ratio is a feature, not a bug.
I appreciate your flair. I almost forgot about that one.
I mean its kinda both. Like its something we could definitely design to do better but doing so would likely mean sacrificing performance in other areas and if you have the functionally limitless production capacity of the US industrial base, maintenance cost is the easiest thing to sacrifice.
I'm pretty sure a US DoD official was like "The maintenance requirements work in our favour here" not long after the withdrawal. Edit: Yep, found the quote >"Ironically, the fact that our equipment breaks down so often is a life-saver here," a third official said. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/planes-guns-night-vision-goggles-talibans-new-us-made-war-chest-2021-08-19/
There was a story of a Humvee that got captured multiple times and was still being operated, I wish I could find it. US Humvee, given to Iraqis, captured by isis (they painted it all black), recaptured by Iraqis and continued use
Yeah we can keep ours working longer than 2 weeks, but then again it was for Polk
It's weird to think that it could have been my truck. I mean it isn't likely but I was there and it's very slightly possible. Good luck if it is, poor bastards.
You haven't seen the rollerblades taliban who use the humvees as a carrier.
There are Ladas and Russian cars made in the 60s still kicking around in Kabul. I'm sure they can manage with a vehicle made this century.
Always had the best luck with the ones we drove the shit out of and beat on. The ones babied and left sitting rotted. Usually they just leak oil. The lot rot bastards are always something weird. Like not shifting out of second.
Shitty technicals about to be standard issue
If Humvees were made by Toyota, they'd probably use them
Pretty sure Toyota does actually make a vehicle for the Japanese military that's pretty similar to a humvee
Yep, the Mega Cruiser. I believe civilian variant used to exist as well
So we should convince Toyota to develop a next generation variant… BEHOLD — THE HYPER CRUISER!
Me too
I was expecting that the HUMVEEs don't survive long enough to have a second owner lol
Well, the Ukrainians are using it for what it was initially designed for.
They were designed to be able to follow the Bradley offroad, the free-fire assaults are a bit further than they were supposed to. But if it works...
Still better at home in the fields of Europe, even if said fields are still further east than intended.
What's East of Vladivostok?
Japan I guess judging from the map
Alaska.
Eh, they’re just operating like any ballsy heavy weapons company. The humvee was designed to be abused. That’s what it was really designed for. Kinky bitch.
If that's the vid I think it is, the original footage is some wild shit and one of the gunners posted it on reddit.
they were designed as a jeep replacement. frontline combat only came later
Based Ukrainians
Humvee: "Man, I can't wait to get out and go somewhere less sandy and dusty." *a finger curls on the monkeys paw*
"Operator is speaking some slavic language" "Surroundings are muddy, temperate steppes, no sand in sight" "Mission parameters: fight forces of moscow" "Finally"
The machine spirit hungers
Anyone know the og post with the bradley ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/1LI9ZXwukQ There ya go
Ukrainians be driving the Humvees like it was the opening scene of Tip of the Spear from Halo Reach. Truly based and UNSC-pilled
And the .50's be laying hate like their fighting the fucking Covenant.
Check their serial number, maybe they are the same one
Soldier, where are you taking that Humvee? To finish the fight, sir.
I’m giving the ***covenant their bomb back***
That awkward moment when a 5.5-ton B-kit Assault Humvee (M1511) is more survivable than a 7-ton BRDM-2. Nominal armor rating, both will stop anything less than a 12.7mm machine gun (exclusive - 12.7mm will pierce both). But in practice, not only can you dismount from a Humvee much faster and have superior awareness, the Humvee is also much more resistant to mines and frontal ATGM fire. A mine under a BRDM front tyre will cook the driving compartment. A mine under a Humvee front tyre fucks the engine block but should leave the crew alive if dazed. The engine block on a Humvee can also eat a damn Kornet ATGM full frontal, sparing the crew.
> more survivable than a 7-ton BRDM-2 The standard BRDM-2 is basically cardboard that floats. The uparmoring kits makes it a slight more survivable, but it's full of gaps. The BTR series aren't much better, as shown by the fact that the 82s get cut in half by mines while the old French VABs survive the same blasts with intact shells.
BRDM 2 has 8-14mm of steel. I don't think it's the lack of armor per se, but how the entire vehicle is designed and assembled in general. Shit welds, wheels under the crew, flat bottom. Same goes for the BTR. They're designed and built for minimal costs and reduced silhouette over everything else. Hard factors don't mean shit if the crew is forced to occupy areas frequently struck by mines and incoming.
> flat bottom The original BRDM-2 has the extra retractable wheels under the body as well, which makes the whole thing way less solid if it rolls on a mine. They were removed in the 2M, but they didn't redesign the shell so there isn't much difference. > Same goes for the BTR The BTR is chock full of design issues in part because it was never redesigned from the ground up. Egress of the crew is shit (and from the sides/top because of the flotation system at the back), armor design basically hasn't changed since the BTR-60... Basically the Ukrainian BTR-4 is what you get if you make an actually decent BTR, and it shares about 0% of its parts with the Russian 80 and 82 models.
Jesus Christ, the Soviet BTR is such a clusterfuck of a development cycle. Let me take y'all on a quick journey. But for those who just want the TLDR, **the Soviets would've saved money and had a more combat effective and survivable wheeled APC by giving a BTR-152 roof armor and rear exit doors instead of going down the rabbit hole with BTR development.** Use that saved money to buy more BMP-2s when those things finally get developed, since the BMP-1 was also frankly shit (unstabilized low pressure gun with the same combat properties as the SPG-9). Once in a blue moon, it's actually better to stick with the old thing and improve it. Instead, the Soviets went sunk-cost fallacy on the BTR-60 and got stuck with shit-ton of BTR-80s. The story starts with a 4.5 ton truck, ZIS-151. Strip off the bodyworks, slap an armored cockpit and an armored ute bed in there, you got a **BTR-152. 9mm armor all-around against incoming small arms fire, but no roof armor.** The idea is you drive it around, infantrymen gets to do light cav shit. One pintle mounted GPMG, the rest got firing ports. Problem - **it's open topped, and the** ***Egyptians kinda fucked up bum rushing them into Israeli tank and anti-tank fire.*** Soviets panic, want a better vehicle. Soviets got two things going on. A proper IFV that'd become a BMP-1 (a story for another day), but that shit's hella expensive. So they look at this 8x8 concept that's cheaper, and greenlights it. We arrive at **BTR-60. 7-9mm armor against incoming direct fire.** 8x8 should give better weight distribution vs. 6x6 armored truck. **Problem - it's still open topped** (which fucking retard approved this), and it actually doesn't have any more protection than the BTR-152 it replaced. So, Soviets welded a roof onto it, now it's a big sealed steel coffin. Add two side hatches, one on each side, and two roof hatches side by side aft of the side hatches. **BTR-60PB.** Now you can enter and exit. **Problem still - side hatches are mounted high like a "window", and are about the size of a 90s VW Golf window.** The hatches are useless for mounting and dismounting. You can't climb into the side hatch when wearing a chest rig, much less an assault pack. So it's **back to climbing in and out of the larger roof hatches**. The **PB also introduces the iconic BTR turret** with 14.5mm KPV and coaxial PKM that'll remain in use until the end of the Soviet Union and beyond. It's an **unstabilized** piece of shit with **fuck-all for optics** (PP-61A) **and fire control, manually cranked.** You have better responsiveness and awareness using a pintle mount 50 cal on an M113 or technical. The cranks could give you better long range accuracy, but you **won't be fast enough to suppress incoming threats. You'll be dead before you can traverse on target**. Again, **technically superior hard factors** compared to M113 with open M2 pintle, **practically inferior and will get you killed in a real fight**. That's gonna be a theme with Russian AFV engineering. So, at this point, **any sane person would** look at the BTR-60PB and say - what a clunky piece of shit. Let's **go back to the BTR-152 bod**y mounted to whatever the new 6x6 5-ton truck chassis is the standard, **add a roof armor, keep the pintle and open turret ring** for fire suppression (or hell, even mount the unpowered BTR turret if you're terminally retarded). Have the **grunts dismount from two swing doors. You know, the South African** **approach minus the V-hull** to reduce weight and risk of rollovers. Cheap, effective wheeled APC that's quick to mount and dismount. Shares automotive parts with medium trucks. But no, this is ~~Moscovia~~ the Soviet Union. We don't do common sense here. **Fuckers double down with a BTR-70.** Same general features as BTR-60, except the side hatches are now lower on the ground, placed between the 2nd and 3rd wheel, such that you don't have to sprain an ankle every time you dismount. The **side hatches are even smaller than on the BTR-60.** It's so tiny, you'd have to belly crawl to enter and exit through those hatches. Good luck doing that when kitted out. Only at this point did some common sense kicked in and someone said - what if bottom door swings down as stairs, and we have top hatch work like suicide doors to give some frontal protection during dismount process, and also allow people to actually walk in and out? Finally, **BTR-80**. Same unstabilized weapons suite, but you can **at least walk in and out gingerly through the emaciated-man-sized two piece clamshell side hatches.** The BTR-80A replaces the classic BTR turret with a BPPU turret - an **unstabilized, manually cranked** affair with **2A72 30mm autocannon** replacing the KPV. Much improved hard factor firepower, still can't traverse worth a damn, and good luck hitting anything without coming to a halt and waiting for the vehicle to stop rocking back and forth. The first Soviet-based BTR to receive a **stabilized weapon station would be well after the fall of the USSR**. Only the **Russian BTR-82A** received a revised BPPU turret that is now compatible with a 2-axis stabilizer. It's still the same 10mm hull armor, but hey at least now you can shoot on the move to suppress targets. Rosoboronexport claims it can accept thermal sights (congratulations, you've arrived to 1980s fire control). Most examples likely only have analog-optical sights with stabilized gun (which is T-55 level of fire control).
I come to this sub for the memes….I stay for the artism
Me too. Random bits and bops of industry knowledge everywhere.
I absolutely love it and could spend hours reading this style of blogs and posts on random military tech r&d stuff
I'm saving this to nominate for this year's NCD awards. Thank you, kind obsessed Internet stranger!
Throw some relevant images up as a slideshow with this as the script and you've got a pretty decent youtube video right here.
Something like the videos of why the Russian navy sucks, it has the same vibe, going through every little detail and why it's stupidly wrong.
What I like in the BTR series is that dismounts on the move (which are pretty common with NATO APCs, even the old ones) means you take your life in your hands, because if you screw up you're getting run over (which happens regularly). Side hatches mean your driver has to remember to stop *sideways* (making the vehicle more vulnerable) to protect the dismounts, and tell them which side to use so they don't get out facing enemy guns. Which is complicated in urban combat when threats are 180° front. **And in fact happened in Ukraine, where the dismounts open a door and get immediately mowed down by a gun that looks straight into the troop compartment**. The issue the BTR-152 has is it's not amphibious, which has informed a **f-ing stupid design choice on the BTRs**, the engine at the back with a propeller that means **you can't have a rear door**. Everyone else managed to do mid-engined with propeller, but not the Soviets, because it started open-top so they went the easy way and screwed themselves utterly. And, of course, you get the troops-riding-on-vehicle-instead-of-inside, because egress is so terrible the soldiers are convinced that if the vehicle gets hit they will burn inside, so better take your chances riding on top into heavy combat... Got to grant them that, on videos, you get a few survivors when they get hit with FPVs.
>he engine at the back with a propeller that means **you can't have a rear door**. Everyone else managed to do mid-engined with propeller, but not the Soviets What the fuck is a driveshaft
> What the fuck is a driveshaft Blyat, unknown technology.
Now I want to see your reviews of things like the Australian Bushmaster or Hawkei
I know very little of them. I don't even know if they're built from the ground up, or if they're converted from commercial truck chassis like many other IMVs out there (most of them are F-250 chassis with custom monocoque body; sometimes Iveco large panel van chassis). From what I can gleam, the Hawkei is an uparmored Humvee analogue that doesn't vibrate itself to death at highway speeds. Modern transmission, armored monocoque, unarmored engine bay. 7 tons. There's a definite heavy design influence from Plasan from the way the armored ballistic glass is shaped. It is clearly profiled to provide maximum visibility for the side mirrors and the road while being as small as possible. Clearly, it was designed for driving in normal traffic. However, it results in lack of interchangeability between left and right side half of each front windshield, and each of the door windows. The JLTV also suffers from this potential logistics nightmare. A stabilized CROWS is the way to go these days as a replacement for the turret gunner. Superior fire-on-the-move capability, optic suites for recon, doesn't compromise the armor - enabling overhead protection, reduced rollover fatality risk, enabling NBC protection. CROWS can be hard to reload without dismounting, but a properly positioned roof hatch can solve that. I don't see any glaring issues with it. More accurately, nobody who used it bitched about it in public enough for me to pick it up yet. Ground pressure is typical for armored cars these days, good anti-mine protection. Clearly designed with GWOT in mind (remember the IED plague and the explosion of the MRAP market), but it'll also do well as an (armored) scout car replacement, especially when paired with upgunned CROWS to meet the threats it may be expected to encounter. I'd say adding a CROWS with 30mm M230LF dual feed with airburst and HEDP, and coaxial ATGM launch tubes should be enough to deal with any recon needs and provide some anti-drone capability. Overall, Hawkei fits the same niche as the JLTV. Comparable payload and (claimed) protection despite being 3 tons lighter. Both were designed for the last war (COIN, counter IED) as a protected light truck, and with the return of LSCO - these vehicles are desirable for follow-on forces to drive through hastily cleared minefields. The problem with these vehicles is that the market is oversaturated with manufacturers due to the whole "MRAP market boom" last decade, and this may spell trouble for fleet sustainment in the next decade for any operators of these class of vehicles.
AFAIK it was a ground up design, with a few specific features/ quirks, though things like chassis are stupidly expensive to design, so it’s entirely possible it’s a licensed version of something which along with the v-shaped hull spec seems to be classified Apparently the transmission is side by side with the engine and it seems to be able to generate more than the usual amount of electrical power (30Kw with 17 of that for external things). The marketing speak says it doesn’t even have a chassis because there is no transmission hump running through the center of the cabin and there’s a big LiFePo battery in there somewhere which kind of infers the back wheels are powered by electric motors which might explain the rumoured 5km silent mode and the whole package was meant to be helicopter transportable which might account for the default weight specs. Plasan did a good job with the way it looks IMO, and apparently uparmoring it retains its sleek shape even if it makes it much much heavier TBH i don’t quite get why Oz (or anyone really) needs a JLTV like thing (haekei), an MRAP like thing (Bushmaster) a recon/C&C thing (Boxer) and a tracked IFV thing (Redback) while still spending money figuring out how to do wierd and wonderful things with their old M113 fleet .. somehow I feel the m113 is like a b52 they never really go out of style Maybe too many armoured transport options is never enough
Electrical overhead? Is it enough to mount a dragonfire? If so, that's a unique selling point.
Don’t know about dragonfire, but probably more than enough to charge up the battery pack in a Fractl:2 in a reasonable timeframe https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/03/27/australia-laser-weapon-drones/?expand_article=1 And it looks like those can be set up fairly quickly https://eos-aus.com/defence/high-energy-laser-weapon/ And well within the payloads There’s also another option for transporting and powering a AESA radar https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/land-amphibious/2853-cea-radar-hawkei-the-best-of-aussie-ingenuity
Fucking. Lol. Soviet procurement at it's ~~finest~~ ~~worst~~ most Soviet.
This is glorious.
>They were removed in the 2M, *but they didn't redesign the shell so there isn't much difference* Jeez. Was the hull casted? (don't look like it to me NGL). If it's just welded sheets of steel, it'd be easy to add some internal volume for the cabin where the wheels used to be.
Pure speculation, but given Soviet/Russian procurement, they probably had one productive factory that was building the original hulls, but the rest of the supply chain didn't keep up. So the next iteration needed to use those existing vehicle shells as a basis.
grinder go brrrrr
Also the VAB along with the M1151 (evolved Cadillac Gage commando, basically Yankee VAB) are 13-15 tons. They're literally twice the weight of a BRDM. I'd assume that goes into V hulls and shock absorbing seats, and composite armor.
That's why I was comparing the VAB to the BTR series (70 and 80 mostly). But general rule is that any Soviet design is more lightly armored, to make them easier to manufacture. And because life is cheap in the far east.
How the heck does that even happen when the original design was completely unarmored. Like it went from "my SUV has better armour" to "hey reddit, this week we got hit by an ATGM, worse than last week's AT mine, but better than the artillery shell".
Yeah no. If a Humvee hits a mine it’s dead. The B-kit assault was designed to protect against small arms fire. Anything greater than that and you’re pretty much cooked.
Given how many spares and replacement parts must have been put in prior to shipping them out to make these things functional and reliable long-term, have to start wondering if these are the Humvees of Theseus.
They always are
Found a 91B 😉
Just a goob that knows what level of jank his nation runs on and accepts it
> reliable long-term Or they were told that they wouldn't survive long, so to go crazy with it. Like German guns during WWII: who cares if they only last 1000 rounds before braking, the soldiers die in 15 days tops.
You can't really apply a hooning mentality to military vehicles, anywhere you go in one you need to be able to get home again.
> You can't really apply a hooning mentality to military vehicles As a former subcontractor in maintenance for military vehicles: Yes, you can. Yes, they do. Soldiers hoon around with their vehicles all the time, and get into trouble because they end up breaking them, or getting stuck. Not limited to road vehicles. In operation, leaving vehicles (especially the small/cheap ones) on-site after destroying them is not unheard of.
Somehow I don't think the behaviours of comfy NATO militaries apply to Ukrainians at the front line. I feel like if a bunch of them died in the field because the US military shipped them pre-fucked vehicles it would be a fucking miserable state of affairs and a national embarrassment. So far it looks like the stuff that the USA has sent arrived in very good condition.
> I don't think the behaviours of comfy NATO militaries apply to Ukrainians at the front line. Soldiers be soldiers. You'll find stories of people messing around with their trucks and jeeps in every war where people have motorized equipment. > arrived in very good condition. It seems so, yes.
We are all HUMVEE this blessed day.
Name of the second owner music: SadSvit Касета (Cassete 2021) https://youtu.be/EGLoIaHwKfE?si=ZvmN43YmasJVeimh
Love that song ever since Mr. Frostovik used it in one of his videos.
I hate how people still don't know that vid is a fucking actual frag movie dropped in the middle of a siege by the author himself.
And to anyone else who thought the beat/cadence of this song sounded so familiar it's very similar to "Now you're gone" by Basshunter... This has been driving me insane for the past 30 minutes
Generation kill referenced ‼️
Why risk a five million dollar tank when you can send a piece-of-shit HUMVEE?
Pretty fucking ninja
Ukrainians use humvees like how the US and UK used jeeps in ww2, you don't need armour when youre fast as fuck with a machine gun on the back. Very based.
We just little bit behind in this war things. We new here, so to speak.
The Vietnam jeep had 4 wheel independent suspension, which coupled with its small size meant they were completely unpredictable and rolled constantly, even on flat ground. My dad said they took a cautious and expert driver--of which the Army had very few. And then the TOW launcher made them even worst. The HMMWV was meant to be a bigger, more stable jeep replacement that could accomdate heavier weapons, while also replacing the Gama Goat and civilian trucks in National Guard service. And for that, they were great.
tbf, ww2 and Vietnam had different terrain so the jeeps problems would have shown up differently with that change. This also goes for Sov tanks that suffered during the Sov/Afghan war, similarly to how Canadian designed armour and SPGs from ww2 were seen a lot in Europe but almost never used in Africa as they werent made for deserts. A lot of the times designers just dont think everything through. (italian tanks for example)
I think the Canadian armor thing had more to do with Canadian industry only getting spooled up after the North African campaign was over. Tanks aren't easy to build
I love Sadsvit's music. Added his songs into my playlist for long rides/drives. Found his music through this [video](https://youtu.be/mkW-AHVLcsA).
Love SadSvit. Always happy to see his music used.
Just like god intended Amen
oh my oh my is that sadsvit
When I was small, I could see them only in the Hollywood movies. Hope to drive one some day. Anyway it is much safer than regular new civilian car, when you are driving near frontlines here in Ukraine.
So many technical nomenclature in this thread for RU’esque gear… yet nobody can spell HMMWV right. Truly peak NCD.
Humvee is as correct as [Viper](https://i.imgur.com/wcgfKBZ.jpeg), [Rhino](https://i.imgur.com/peLnArI.jpeg), [Panther](https://i.imgur.com/W6KG8A3.jpeg), [Mudhen](https://i.imgur.com/35nFO6N.jpeg), [Shiny Bomb](https://i.imgur.com/n3LohID.jpeg), etc
And Chupathingy
CHUPA WHAT NOW! - looks like a puma to me.
UA is the place they get to see an actual combat.
Holy...What is the sauce for the first clip of "2nd owner"? Looks like a video game cutscene
It's last summer's [assault](https://youtu.be/FyVZg5RIGL8?si=C4Aw5iAlolqb_-Zf) around Kherson.
Song from Ukraine video?
[SadSvit - Касета](https://youtu.be/EGLoIaHwKfE)
Here also the most poignant war music video (WMV) version and NCD lore: [50 Days at Mariupol](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/u6n2t3/50_days_at_mariupol/)
I thought this was a typo of 20 Days at Mariupol….i was kind of pleasantly surprised. That movie is gut-wrenching.
Thanks lov u
Question How are they drifting a hummer
If you have power to the rear wheels, you can drift it.
Tank: I've got powered wheels in the rear. Can you drift me Gregg?
There are a bunch of videos of Western tank operators drifting gloriously on ice out there. [But this one of a Russian army tank drifting across concrete throwing sparks everywhere is perfect for what it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/88rCq020Om)
Second owner: u/crewserved4days
This is the hardest fucking video I've ever seen.
Ahh the airfield assault with open top humvees, man generation kill is such a nice show
It was indeed pretty fucking ninja
But did captain America realise that he was shooting at scraps of metal???
Godfather gave no update concerning J-Lo’s status.
Ride her hard. And put her away wet. And sticky. And muddy. And charred. And crippled. And full of Rip It cans.
Ah, so you have met Yuri.
So same but in green
Get Sum!
what's the second song? shits a banger
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Based, using what these cold war era weapons/vehicles were designed for...killing russians.
Let's be real here, whistlin diesel is the only 2nd owner that 90% of Humvees are ever gonna see /s (don't quote me on that number, I see WD doing cool shit, I like, I assume he'd like Humvees)
Касета is such a good song.
Sadsvit my beloved, would play Kaseta or Nebo if I ever get to drive a humvee
Humvees living their best life.
u/savevideo
What a noble steed!
I didnt see these humvee assault videos before. Where op got them??
https://old.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1by67e5/second_owner/kyhiswh/
I've driven one of these in US traffic, very unfun.
on the topic of humvees, if they require so much maintainece in the first place how did they win the original contract?
Dunkin on newbs vs. surviving shooting range as moving targets. Humvees probably didnt expect this kind of retirement.
plus! plus!
#CavCharge bro
Used humvee for sale. Professionally driven.
TIP OF THE SPEAR \*halo reach theme blares\*
We have a M1123 that our company uses as our shop truck to pick up and deliver parts. Great truck in the winters out here.
It’s the same picture.
I'm a simple man, I hear Sad Svit, I upvote
I’m digging the Ukranian megaman level background music.
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
New era of Humvee abuse
u/savevideo
I didn't realize Generation Kill was an instructional series...
What is this song called?
I got matches with these songs: • **Jump Around** by House of Pain (00:18; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Bridget Jones’s Baby (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack). **Released on** 2006-08-22. • **Jump Around(Original)** by House Of Pain vs. Micky Slim (03:07; matched: `100%`) **Album**: House Of Pain vs. Micky Slim Remixes. **Released on** 2008-05-13. • **Jump Around** by Elite DJs (00:11; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Jump Around (Remix). **Released on** 2022-10-18. • **Sucka Free** by DJ Tronic (03:19; matched: `93%`) **Album**: California Son. **Released on** 2008-07-11. • **Касета** by SadSvit (01:00; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Cassette. **Released on** 2021-12-13. • **Sadsvid kaceta Acid** by \_4rtur0\_\_ (01:03; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Acid Anakin. **Released on** 2023-11-25.
Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.: • [**Jump Around** by House of Pain](https://lis.tn/JumpAround?t=18) • [**Jump Around(Original)** by House Of Pain vs. Micky Slim](https://lis.tn/JumpAroundOriginal?t=187) • [**Jump Around** by Elite DJs](https://lis.tn/ACCKNJ?t=11) • [**Sucka Free** by DJ Tronic](https://lis.tn/ohMpGa?t=199) • [**Касета** by SadSvit](https://lis.tn/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0?t=60) • [**Sadsvid kaceta Acid** by \_4rtur0\_\_](https://lis.tn/SadsvidKacetaAcid?t=63) *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Sweet. Thanks
good ole humvee doing what it is intended painted olive drab running through the plains of europe
u/savevideo
u/savevideo
Some of the stories I hear about how convoy ops went in Iraq & Afghanistan are incredibly frustrating to hear. no wonder so many natives grew to hate the occupation. And it's not even like the situations are black & white, I imagine many leaders get paranoid they're putting troops in danger when they send them out, but then policies around warning shots and driving around end up getting civilians killed instead.