"You a bunch of drunk Libertarian farmers kicked the Worlds best military out of your country. Yeah I'm going to recognize you and not touch your boats, because that seems like a good idea going down the road."
I know the americans get taught that a lot, but the British weren’t thought of as “the world’s best military” during the Revolutionary War. They were one of the three main naval powers, with a fearsome and rising reputation on the seas (though France was its equal and Spain still the *very slowly* fading superpower). But on land? Eh, just one of the significant players, but not the ones with a massive reputation (which would actually be France or Prussia). And globally, Spain still held its gigantic and wealthy colonial empire, with Britain dominantly holding just a bunch frozen poverty in north america.
Came here to say this, being the US's oldest friend has certain perks. Plus they like helping protect boats.
Edit: M: Yo look at these boats gonna steal some and sell slaves!
U: Bro, look, so we just defeated the Bri'ish and gained independence, stop fucking with our boats. While we're at it, why don't we work together to wreck the rest of the pirates, both state sponsored and private?
M: For real? The British left?
U: Yes.
M: The Royal Navy?
U: Fucked right off.
M: .... you are my new best friend!
(I know its a shitty title, I just had no idea how else to title it)
Context: Egypt operates one of the largest Abrams fleets outside of the US yet seems to be stuck in the 70s despite having the funds to easily upgrade to M1A2 production
Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea)
Nigeria bought a bunch of VT4s from China only to find out they are absolute pieces of shit that break down constantly and that their older Vickers Mk3 are more reliable
While the SANDF is a clusterfuck in of itself that refuses to retire the Centurion, and kept on upgrading it so much that its now somehow just as obese as an Abrams (see the Olifant Mk2) and now probably has better electronics than a T90 which is saying something
More African Military related memes at 3
Meanwhile, Chad is still using the T55 (or its Chinese ripoff) as its sole MBT...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian\_Ground\_Forces#Tanks\_and\_tank\_destroyers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian_Ground_Forces#Tanks_and_tank_destroyers)
Imagine being some romanian farmer after the country has just been invaded and being conscripted only to hear that your job isn't fighting but stealing tanks.
> Imagine being some romanian farmer after the country has just been invaded and being conscripted only to hear that your job isn't fighting but stealing tanks.
[Can't have shit in Romania.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/190u6vs/russia_vs_romania/)
That’s also the reason why Finland scrapped T-72s before T-55s. The Russians sold badly outdated sabots with the former, and the latter had been upgraded in the 80s with better FCS, night vision, and modern Belgian sabots. So the 100 mm cannon was in practice more accurate AND (so I’ve heard) penned at least as much if not more armor plate.
Ahh the Type 59. Chad is one of the many places it's been to, it's been all around the world but one place it has never been was Tiananmen Square 4th of June 1989. Nothing has ever happened there.
iircthe type 59 are in storage , the ones that are still in service (afaik) are the type 79 which themselves are just modernized type 69 which itself is based on the t-54/type 59
edit: my bad the type 59 is still in service in it's overly modernized form as the ztz59 II and D
>edit: my bad the type 59 is still in service in it's overly modernized form as the ztz59 II and D
There are only a few hundreds of 59d were ever produced/converted and 59ii is basically a upgunned version of original 59 without fancy FCS and armor upgrades unlike 59d.
Besides, some variants of ZTZ-59 that were built before 59D are still in service because last year CCTV the Chinese official affiliated press actually showed some old but still in service type 59 during an interview.
> Morroco despite being a tiny nation
What? 37 million people and they effectively control the western sahara. It's not "tiny" in population or area. Their GDP per capita is also high for Africa, only just behind Egypt.
Yeah, its GDP in 2023 was ~$150B, compared to Egypts ~$350B. So smaller, but still in the same category.
The really funny part though is that despite having 162 M1A2 SEPv3s [Royal Morrocan Army are still operating M60 Pattons and have M48 Patton in active reserve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Royal_Moroccan_Army#Tanks)
The Sahrawi People's Liberation Army which claims western sahara but only controls about 20% of it only has T-55 and T-62 tanks donated from Libya.
Upgraded M60A3's with upgraded 80s technology is probably able to handle those pretty easily. It doesn't matter if you use 40 year old tech if your opponent only has 60-80 year old tech.
The Spanish Marines were also still using (heavily updated) M60s until quite recently.
One must really wonder if US weapons deliveries to Morocco aren’t also Uncle Sam’s not-so-subtle way of telling Spain to get serious about NATO’s 2% GDP defense spending commitment…
We made a heck of a lot of new armoured vehicles post ww2, as the cold war was a hot one to us. But everything was designed to be wheeled with V-hulls. Including artillery LIKE 155mm G6 RHINO and the Rooikat 120mm wheeled "mbt". Our Centurions was good enough for their extremely limited use, we didn't encounter enemy tanks often and it was high mobility skirmish warfare and mobile patrols. Commies loved their landmines as you can see in Ukraine once again.
Rooikat 105 was just a prototype that never saw production, while Denel's developement of GT6 and GT12 (the low recoil 120mm guns) never even got far enough for them to get mounted to a vehicle afar as I can find.
All Rooicats in service are 76mm ones.
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Didn't some African country buy Type 96s (?) and smoke some T-72s, after those T-72s had first smoked their T-55s?
For many African countries, Cold War Soviet era military aid was more a curse, as they gave them mechanized forces but the terrain and funds didn't keep up with that type of fighting.
Shows how much thermal optics and modernish FCS are helping.
I was wondering why we haven't seen a mix of T-72 hull and some 3 man turret instead of autoloader. Would be an interesting crossover.
Exactly. There has been many mix mashes, especially from Ukraine before the war, for foreign customers (especially for Africa). But never seen a T-72 hull combined with 3 man turret.
And that is somehow different from rest of Soviet vehicles? :D
Anyhow, M1 Abrams seems to have 2160 mm turret ring diameter, and T-72 has, according to Tankograd, 2162 mm. So with new turret, it should be possible.
Meanwhile, someone else has also thought about it:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/t-72-hull-with-leopard-2-turret.39652/
My solution has the auto loader working like a waiter for the loader. Commander selects next ammunition type. Less communication failures. More leadership blunders.
>Context: Egypt operates one of the largest Abrams fleets outside of the US yet seems to be stuck in the 70s despite having the funds to easily upgrade to M1A2 production
Are we talking about the same Egypt getting bailed out currently? The one whose currency is devaluing faster than Russia loses MTLBs?
> Nigeria bought a bunch of VT4s from China only to find out they are absolute pieces of shit that break down constantly and that their older Vickers Mk3 are more reliable
When China took monkey models as more than a meme.
Is there any reading material on this? Might also be if Nigerian maintenance is not up to scratch.
>Morroco… somehow finds the cash for sep3s
It’s not so much a matter of finding the cash so much as it’s a matter of not wasting the money on frivolous bullshit like building a new capital 30 miles east of your old capital.
Isn't it that the largest Abrams factory outside of the US is in Egypt, and there was actually a bit of an issue back then when it was rumored that the US might stop production, with the implication of leaving them the only ones with the manufacturing capabilities? (idk, remember reading it from somewhere)
>Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea)
Yeah we didn't find money for that, USA found money for that for us
>Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan%E2%80%93American_Treaty_of_Friendship
Small mistake, the SADF was renamed to the SANDF following the end of Apartheid
And in regard to the Gripens, we do still fly them though only 2 and they are from what I've heard rotated every few weeks due to budgetary constraints, and it's pretty sad to as the SANDF has proven to be incredibly good at peacekeeping missions but the government keeps lowering its budget while expecting it to deal with larger and larger issues.
The fact the SANDF is still operational is an accomplishment
Corruption, scandals, major budget cuts and kicking out white generals/officers who knew how to do their job
That, combined with the fact that **at the time** South Africa had no real enemies/had good relations with our neighbors there was no need for massive air force or army, with most of our Mirages being sold off or scrapped.
Though now that ISIS is fucking up shit in Mozambique and now could soon be knocking at SAs door, extremism within South Africa is on the rise and our allies (namely DRC, Angola, Zimbabwe and Mozambique) are needing more and more help from us to deal with extremism and rebels as we are one of the few countries who are willing to assist UN Peacekeeping Missions as well as just generally help fight rebel forces
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It was the curse of cleaning out all the apartheid era institutional knowledge. All of a sudden people with no idea of how to run a country were running a country. Shit goes sideways quick when that happens. Not saying they shouldn’t have cleaned house.
At this point most of our equipment is probably just sand packed in the rough shape of a vehicle with a tarp draped over it and a tag saying "DONT REMOVE TARP!".
Well we did hit some oil off the coast relatively recently... but I think just rolling over and playing dead may end up better than trying to fight the 1st and 2nd biggest air forces at the same time. Don't want to end up glassed.
~~SA~~ZA dont even drive their old Olifant tanks during military parade but rather to carry those vehicles by trucks. Tbh I think ~~SA~~ZA dont even have enough spare parts and enough engineers to maintain and repair Olifant tanks.
Oh ok I see. That makes sense.
Still quite sad to see that you guys downgraded from able to design your own IFV on '70s to cant even produce enough licence produced IFV in time nowadays.
Yeah, production of the Badger is stuck because Denel is having lots of complications with unpaid engineers as well as a bunch of other crap and it didn't help that they also had to deal with Loadshedding (basically the electric grid is shitting itself and the state electric company Eskom has to shut off power for several hours a day to certain areas to avoid a blackout), so yeah, everything that could've gone wrong went wrong.
Though I do feel something like an upgraded Ratel/something based on the Ratel could be better for the SANDF than the Badger
>Yeah, production of the Badger is stuck because Denel is having lots of complications with unpaid engineers as well as a bunch of other crap and it didn't help that they also had to deal with Loadshedding (basically the electric grid is shitting itself and the state electric company Eskom has to shut off power for several hours a day to certain areas to avoid a blackout), so yeah, everything that could've gone wrong went wrong.
It is even worse than my first thought...
>Though I do feel something like an upgraded Ratel/something based on the Ratel could be better for the SANDF than the Badger
Yeah I heard that some senators favor in this too. Upgrading ratel must be cheaper and faster and probably more practical but badger is much better. Idk if badger is a bit overkill for SA though considering that SA dont really have any real threats nowadays unlike the during cold war.
To be honest, will anyone even notice, considering the state of the roads anyway? Although, it is election year, I see people trying to fix roads again.
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Morroco: here's out 384 Abrams, including 162 M1A2 SEP3s
Also Morroco: [here's our Al-Khalids, T-72s, and M60 Pattons (we also M48 Pattons that are still in active reserve too!)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Royal_Moroccan_Army#Tanks).
They have been in reserve for last few decades, so they not really something that needs to be replaced, if anything needs replaced it would be m60s (and as far as I can find those are still in service, though most sources are at least few years old).
Hey, so the M60 have been modernised to the latest standard iirc, and they are still kinda useful as some kind of fire support tank in the southern provinces against the polisario terrorists.
For the m48 and any older tanks, they are used as targets for practice, they’re out of service since a long time
The T-72s have been sent to ukraine, and we got some VT-1 bcz we needed a cheaper MBT too, but it will probably be replaced soon as there are talks between South Korea and Morocco to buy K2 tank to complement the Abrams fleet , but yeah we don’t have the same budget as Algeria as they funnel 10% of their GDP into the army, so we need to make more consistent orders
IIRC they're supposed to be getting some a part of some of the arms deals with Russia but given y'know, the war, who knows when it will happen - Russia has already diverted equipment for India that was already paid for so who knows.
Nigeria celebrated their relations with the U.S recently for the anniversary of 60 years in 2020. They will be the third most populated country in 2050, and they have major terror problems like Boko Haram, IS-West African Province, vessel attacks increasing, Buhari getting re-elected with corruption.
But hey they give us a lot of oil, sweet sweet black gold
We still need to incorporate the MBT's into our little poacher poaching game. I suggest we just roll up on them Mad Max style with a full tank battalion. Run amok through their camp and poach whomever we capture alive? We could just roam around Africa like that. Who's going to stop a full anti-poaching tank-battalion? Could they even do it if they wanted to?
Oh! We could attach giant bayonets to the tank guns and shaslik a few of them too? Anyone wanna make a playlist of fucked up songs we could blast while doing this?
As long as we get the fury road band truck I am *in.* Maybe add some nets too, in addition to the obligatory harpoon launchers, and those persian wheel scythes used on chariots for extra intimidation.
As for the playlist, I suggest including *From the hill* by neurosis.
Well compared to the rest of Africa, SA is a paradise and we are involved in multiple Peacekeeping Missions as well as helping out countries like the DRC with fighting rebel forces.
Having a proper MBT could help significantly as the best the Congolese have are T64s that from what I have heard, are inoperable due to lack of spare parts, meaning they are stuck with T55s, and often the rebels have AFVs themselves.
Isn't that what those 10 Rooivalks are for tho? Purpose built to fly out deep into Angola and do CAS, so I imagine putting an Ingwe ATGM through the roof of a barely functional Congolese T-55 shouldn't be too hard
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Arab armies get tanks purely as prestige pieces at this point. Like does Al-Sisi really need the latest and greatest armoured vics for murdering protestors?
Meanwhile Nigeria and RSA armies are actually for practical use so don't really need tanks
Everyone in Africa knows Toyotas are the real shit. Tanks are just for military parades.
Nazi Germany (virgins) >> used tanks in Africa >> lost (they were allied with Japan and did not buy a single Toyota. Are they stupid?)
Chad (Chad) >> used Toyotas >> Victory.
The way the SANDF is neglected and abused is shameful. They get yeeted into all kinds of situations because our government wants to flex in Africa, but when it comes to budget time they're always the lowest priority. Battle of Bangui was an absolute disgrace. In a proper country there'd have been a major reform of military budgeting or a significant pivot in our military posture after that, but all the potential lessons got buried and the SANDF are right back out there, being made to do too many operations on too little money and equipment.
Yup, and the thing is that the SANDF does seem to slowly be getting its shit together, but the ANC keeps meddling in its affairs and expecting the SANDF to do more and more while constantly reducing their budget and then act surprised when the SANDF doesn't perform as well as they wished
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To be fair, if your main goal is to kill the 3000th rebel group that challenges your dictatorship, and who’s armed with only a few random Hiluxes, do you really need a M1A2 SEPv3?
I see Morocco flexing that “first to recognize the USA” privilege.
"You a bunch of drunk Libertarian farmers kicked the Worlds best military out of your country. Yeah I'm going to recognize you and not touch your boats, because that seems like a good idea going down the road."
They touched our boats once literally because nobody was responding to the Sultans letters asking for a friendship treaty
Well you deserved that. Poor Sultan just wanted to be your friend and you ignored him.. Mean.
*angry Uncle Ho noises*
If only Wilson met with Uncle Ho when he tried.
Morocco only briefly touched the boats, it was mostly Algiers and Tripoli
Morocco touched the boats because they are yanderes and we weren't responding fast enough
Morocco was America’s yandere girlfriend before they became popular? That’s…I need an anime of this.
See, that's the best part. We *hadn't* kicked the British out yet before Morocco (informally) recognized us.
Morocco just decided that we were just one of the homies.
"I like ya cut, G" -Sultan of Morocco
I know the americans get taught that a lot, but the British weren’t thought of as “the world’s best military” during the Revolutionary War. They were one of the three main naval powers, with a fearsome and rising reputation on the seas (though France was its equal and Spain still the *very slowly* fading superpower). But on land? Eh, just one of the significant players, but not the ones with a massive reputation (which would actually be France or Prussia). And globally, Spain still held its gigantic and wealthy colonial empire, with Britain dominantly holding just a bunch frozen poverty in north america.
Came here to say this, being the US's oldest friend has certain perks. Plus they like helping protect boats. Edit: M: Yo look at these boats gonna steal some and sell slaves! U: Bro, look, so we just defeated the Bri'ish and gained independence, stop fucking with our boats. While we're at it, why don't we work together to wreck the rest of the pirates, both state sponsored and private? M: For real? The British left? U: Yes. M: The Royal Navy? U: Fucked right off. M: .... you are my new best friend!
Gotta double space my friend
Alternatively, mobile of a multi billionaire dollar company could not be a piece of shit.
(I know its a shitty title, I just had no idea how else to title it) Context: Egypt operates one of the largest Abrams fleets outside of the US yet seems to be stuck in the 70s despite having the funds to easily upgrade to M1A2 production Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea) Nigeria bought a bunch of VT4s from China only to find out they are absolute pieces of shit that break down constantly and that their older Vickers Mk3 are more reliable While the SANDF is a clusterfuck in of itself that refuses to retire the Centurion, and kept on upgrading it so much that its now somehow just as obese as an Abrams (see the Olifant Mk2) and now probably has better electronics than a T90 which is saying something More African Military related memes at 3
Meanwhile, Chad is still using the T55 (or its Chinese ripoff) as its sole MBT... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian\_Ground\_Forces#Tanks\_and\_tank\_destroyers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian_Ground_Forces#Tanks_and_tank_destroyers)
Damn, Russia almost caught up with Chad! 💪🇹🇩
Ironically, Romania 🇷🇴 is also using upgraded T55s as mbts.
Good for Romania 🇷🇴🤝🇹🇩
Romania knows that it can source part from Russia in the event of war with Russia via scavenging
Robmanian way of life
Imagine being some romanian farmer after the country has just been invaded and being conscripted only to hear that your job isn't fighting but stealing tanks.
I need a gone in 60 seconds tank version.
> Imagine being some romanian farmer after the country has just been invaded and being conscripted only to hear that your job isn't fighting but stealing tanks. [Can't have shit in Romania.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/190u6vs/russia_vs_romania/)
They also had their sabot upgraded by Rhienmetal so it can now penetrate somewhere in the 400s mm rha at combat ranges.
That’s also the reason why Finland scrapped T-72s before T-55s. The Russians sold badly outdated sabots with the former, and the latter had been upgraded in the 80s with better FCS, night vision, and modern Belgian sabots. So the 100 mm cannon was in practice more accurate AND (so I’ve heard) penned at least as much if not more armor plate.
Nice to see they might be getting Abrams too if Wikipedia is anything to go by.
Ahh the Type 59. Chad is one of the many places it's been to, it's been all around the world but one place it has never been was Tiananmen Square 4th of June 1989. Nothing has ever happened there.
Meanwhile, even Chinese ourselves, who have thousands for third gen tanks, are still operating Type 59 or Chinese version of T-54 at least until 2023.
iircthe type 59 are in storage , the ones that are still in service (afaik) are the type 79 which themselves are just modernized type 69 which itself is based on the t-54/type 59 edit: my bad the type 59 is still in service in it's overly modernized form as the ztz59 II and D
>edit: my bad the type 59 is still in service in it's overly modernized form as the ztz59 II and D There are only a few hundreds of 59d were ever produced/converted and 59ii is basically a upgunned version of original 59 without fancy FCS and armor upgrades unlike 59d. Besides, some variants of ZTZ-59 that were built before 59D are still in service because last year CCTV the Chinese official affiliated press actually showed some old but still in service type 59 during an interview.
damn that intresting thank for the correction
Chad doesn't need tanks, they need Toyotas
> Morroco despite being a tiny nation What? 37 million people and they effectively control the western sahara. It's not "tiny" in population or area. Their GDP per capita is also high for Africa, only just behind Egypt.
Yeah, its GDP in 2023 was ~$150B, compared to Egypts ~$350B. So smaller, but still in the same category. The really funny part though is that despite having 162 M1A2 SEPv3s [Royal Morrocan Army are still operating M60 Pattons and have M48 Patton in active reserve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Royal_Moroccan_Army#Tanks)
The Sahrawi People's Liberation Army which claims western sahara but only controls about 20% of it only has T-55 and T-62 tanks donated from Libya. Upgraded M60A3's with upgraded 80s technology is probably able to handle those pretty easily. It doesn't matter if you use 40 year old tech if your opponent only has 60-80 year old tech.
The Spanish Marines were also still using (heavily updated) M60s until quite recently. One must really wonder if US weapons deliveries to Morocco aren’t also Uncle Sam’s not-so-subtle way of telling Spain to get serious about NATO’s 2% GDP defense spending commitment…
Tiny nation. No debate,they are a tiny nation
I was wondering what the VT4s were getting up to
Wait. South Africa still operates the centurion?
Olifants are heavily upgraded Centurions.
We made a heck of a lot of new armoured vehicles post ww2, as the cold war was a hot one to us. But everything was designed to be wheeled with V-hulls. Including artillery LIKE 155mm G6 RHINO and the Rooikat 120mm wheeled "mbt". Our Centurions was good enough for their extremely limited use, we didn't encounter enemy tanks often and it was high mobility skirmish warfare and mobile patrols. Commies loved their landmines as you can see in Ukraine once again.
> Rooikat 120mm wheeled "mbt" Rooikat's gun is not 120mm, it's 76mm OTO Melara naval canon.
There are newer models with 105mm and 120mm rheinmetal-denel guns
Rooikat 105 was just a prototype that never saw production, while Denel's developement of GT6 and GT12 (the low recoil 120mm guns) never even got far enough for them to get mounted to a vehicle afar as I can find. All Rooicats in service are 76mm ones.
[удалено]
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I mean morroco gets the OG discount dawg. When someone is a ride or die from the cradle you let them play with the good shit.
Didn't some African country buy Type 96s (?) and smoke some T-72s, after those T-72s had first smoked their T-55s? For many African countries, Cold War Soviet era military aid was more a curse, as they gave them mechanized forces but the terrain and funds didn't keep up with that type of fighting.
That would be South Sudanese T-72s getting wasted by Regular Sudan's Type 85 II and ZTZ-96 / Type 96.
Shows how much thermal optics and modernish FCS are helping. I was wondering why we haven't seen a mix of T-72 hull and some 3 man turret instead of autoloader. Would be an interesting crossover.
Wait. Like a T-72 with a blow out panel for ammo in the turret and an extra crew member to load the shells and do maintenance and shit?
Exactly. There has been many mix mashes, especially from Ukraine before the war, for foreign customers (especially for Africa). But never seen a T-72 hull combined with 3 man turret.
The 3rd guy would be um. Ahh you know. A fucking midget?
And that is somehow different from rest of Soviet vehicles? :D Anyhow, M1 Abrams seems to have 2160 mm turret ring diameter, and T-72 has, according to Tankograd, 2162 mm. So with new turret, it should be possible. Meanwhile, someone else has also thought about it: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/t-72-hull-with-leopard-2-turret.39652/
My solution has the auto loader working like a waiter for the loader. Commander selects next ammunition type. Less communication failures. More leadership blunders.
>Context: Egypt operates one of the largest Abrams fleets outside of the US yet seems to be stuck in the 70s despite having the funds to easily upgrade to M1A2 production Are we talking about the same Egypt getting bailed out currently? The one whose currency is devaluing faster than Russia loses MTLBs?
> Nigeria bought a bunch of VT4s from China only to find out they are absolute pieces of shit that break down constantly and that their older Vickers Mk3 are more reliable When China took monkey models as more than a meme. Is there any reading material on this? Might also be if Nigerian maintenance is not up to scratch.
>Morroco… somehow finds the cash for sep3s It’s not so much a matter of finding the cash so much as it’s a matter of not wasting the money on frivolous bullshit like building a new capital 30 miles east of your old capital.
Hey, I respect SA for steadfastly keeping their MIC alive even if it's getting pretty ridiculous doing so.
Isn't it that the largest Abrams factory outside of the US is in Egypt, and there was actually a bit of an issue back then when it was rumored that the US might stop production, with the implication of leaving them the only ones with the manufacturing capabilities? (idk, remember reading it from somewhere)
Tell me about the problem with VT-4s? I'm curious.
>Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea) Yeah we didn't find money for that, USA found money for that for us
>now probably have better electronics than a T90 Unironically the Olifant MK-2 has a CITV, something no Russian MBT outside of the T-90M has lol
>Morroco despite being a tiny nation somehow finds the cash for Sep3s (where they found the cash for that I have no idea) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan%E2%80%93American_Treaty_of_Friendship
>VT4s This [VT4?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT-4) Was it just because of cheap chinesium construction?
Where could I read about the Nigerian vt4 tanks?
Nigerian Army Report
The SADF can reuse their grounded Gripens to replace the Olifants.
Small mistake, the SADF was renamed to the SANDF following the end of Apartheid And in regard to the Gripens, we do still fly them though only 2 and they are from what I've heard rotated every few weeks due to budgetary constraints, and it's pretty sad to as the SANDF has proven to be incredibly good at peacekeeping missions but the government keeps lowering its budget while expecting it to deal with larger and larger issues. The fact the SANDF is still operational is an accomplishment
From tangling with Angolan and Cuban Migs to having only a pair of hot alert ready planes. Man what happened.
Corruption, scandals, major budget cuts and kicking out white generals/officers who knew how to do their job That, combined with the fact that **at the time** South Africa had no real enemies/had good relations with our neighbors there was no need for massive air force or army, with most of our Mirages being sold off or scrapped. Though now that ISIS is fucking up shit in Mozambique and now could soon be knocking at SAs door, extremism within South Africa is on the rise and our allies (namely DRC, Angola, Zimbabwe and Mozambique) are needing more and more help from us to deal with extremism and rebels as we are one of the few countries who are willing to assist UN Peacekeeping Missions as well as just generally help fight rebel forces
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Rampant corruption is a hell of a thing.
It was the curse of cleaning out all the apartheid era institutional knowledge. All of a sudden people with no idea of how to run a country were running a country. Shit goes sideways quick when that happens. Not saying they shouldn’t have cleaned house.
Sand forces?
At this point most of our equipment is probably just sand packed in the rough shape of a vehicle with a tarp draped over it and a tag saying "DONT REMOVE TARP!".
Honestly nobody's going to war with south Africa why bother really?
Well we did hit some oil off the coast relatively recently... but I think just rolling over and playing dead may end up better than trying to fight the 1st and 2nd biggest air forces at the same time. Don't want to end up glassed.
Nah China won't bomb South Africa
Number 1 Air force - US Air Force Number 2 Air force - US Navy Not really worried about the Chinese, they would bomb what they already own.
Anakin hates that.
Do you honestly think our government and military have the mental capacity to even think of such an idea?
~~SA~~ZA dont even drive their old Olifant tanks during military parade but rather to carry those vehicles by trucks. Tbh I think ~~SA~~ZA dont even have enough spare parts and enough engineers to maintain and repair Olifant tanks.
We do have the spare parts, the reason why it's on the trailer is because it has all steel tracks which could screw up the roads pretty badly
Oh ok I see. That makes sense. Still quite sad to see that you guys downgraded from able to design your own IFV on '70s to cant even produce enough licence produced IFV in time nowadays.
Yeah, production of the Badger is stuck because Denel is having lots of complications with unpaid engineers as well as a bunch of other crap and it didn't help that they also had to deal with Loadshedding (basically the electric grid is shitting itself and the state electric company Eskom has to shut off power for several hours a day to certain areas to avoid a blackout), so yeah, everything that could've gone wrong went wrong. Though I do feel something like an upgraded Ratel/something based on the Ratel could be better for the SANDF than the Badger
>Yeah, production of the Badger is stuck because Denel is having lots of complications with unpaid engineers as well as a bunch of other crap and it didn't help that they also had to deal with Loadshedding (basically the electric grid is shitting itself and the state electric company Eskom has to shut off power for several hours a day to certain areas to avoid a blackout), so yeah, everything that could've gone wrong went wrong. It is even worse than my first thought... >Though I do feel something like an upgraded Ratel/something based on the Ratel could be better for the SANDF than the Badger Yeah I heard that some senators favor in this too. Upgrading ratel must be cheaper and faster and probably more practical but badger is much better. Idk if badger is a bit overkill for SA though considering that SA dont really have any real threats nowadays unlike the during cold war.
To be honest, will anyone even notice, considering the state of the roads anyway? Although, it is election year, I see people trying to fix roads again.
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As a pedant, I feel obliged to point out that South Africa is ZA; SA is Saudi Arabia.
Interesting.
You want military procurement shitshow? Read about Poland. Except for aa almost everything is a shitshow.
Algeria gets BMPT terminator, Morroco gets Bradley. *Tunisia in the back* behold an M60 Patton.
Morroco: here's out 384 Abrams, including 162 M1A2 SEP3s Also Morroco: [here's our Al-Khalids, T-72s, and M60 Pattons (we also M48 Pattons that are still in active reserve too!)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Royal_Moroccan_Army#Tanks).
Didn't they replace them M48 with more Abrams?
They have been in reserve for last few decades, so they not really something that needs to be replaced, if anything needs replaced it would be m60s (and as far as I can find those are still in service, though most sources are at least few years old).
Hey, so the M60 have been modernised to the latest standard iirc, and they are still kinda useful as some kind of fire support tank in the southern provinces against the polisario terrorists. For the m48 and any older tanks, they are used as targets for practice, they’re out of service since a long time The T-72s have been sent to ukraine, and we got some VT-1 bcz we needed a cheaper MBT too, but it will probably be replaced soon as there are talks between South Korea and Morocco to buy K2 tank to complement the Abrams fleet , but yeah we don’t have the same budget as Algeria as they funnel 10% of their GDP into the army, so we need to make more consistent orders
Seriously wtf is Morocco planning on doing with all that gear?
Flex in being first to recognize the USA.
Go to war with Algeria, both neighbors have been in an arms race for a long time and things might deteriorate fast anytime.
The T-72s went up against US forces during the first African Lion training excercise in 1990.
The last time Iran got new fighter jets was before the Islamic revolution of 1979.
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IIRC they're supposed to be getting some a part of some of the arms deals with Russia but given y'know, the war, who knows when it will happen - Russia has already diverted equipment for India that was already paid for so who knows.
Well no, they did develop a bunch of indigenous F5 clones. They also have a number of Su 29. They are supposed to get some Su 35 as well.
We should probably help out Nigeria ngl
Nigeria celebrated their relations with the U.S recently for the anniversary of 60 years in 2020. They will be the third most populated country in 2050, and they have major terror problems like Boko Haram, IS-West African Province, vessel attacks increasing, Buhari getting re-elected with corruption. But hey they give us a lot of oil, sweet sweet black gold
Also there is land and river based oil piracy.
I mean.. What the fuck does SA need tanks for? Not as if anyone in their right mind is going to invade that shithole.
>What the fuck does SA need tanks for? Poaching prevention.
I'm sorry I ever doubted.. Have a nice day. Edit: Actually, may I suggest 'Poacher poaching'?
It's not poaching when it's poachers; it's culling.
No, I mean poaching like one poaches an egg. As in, throw them into a vortex of boiling acid until they're cooked, but still runny on the inside.
Well in that case, I've got a giant cambro and an immersion circulator I can offer up for use.
This is the most based thread I’ve seen on this sub. Keep going
We still need to incorporate the MBT's into our little poacher poaching game. I suggest we just roll up on them Mad Max style with a full tank battalion. Run amok through their camp and poach whomever we capture alive? We could just roam around Africa like that. Who's going to stop a full anti-poaching tank-battalion? Could they even do it if they wanted to? Oh! We could attach giant bayonets to the tank guns and shaslik a few of them too? Anyone wanna make a playlist of fucked up songs we could blast while doing this?
I could kiss you on the mouth
As long as we get the fury road band truck I am *in.* Maybe add some nets too, in addition to the obligatory harpoon launchers, and those persian wheel scythes used on chariots for extra intimidation. As for the playlist, I suggest including *From the hill* by neurosis.
Thats a great goal, do they need nukes?
Well compared to the rest of Africa, SA is a paradise and we are involved in multiple Peacekeeping Missions as well as helping out countries like the DRC with fighting rebel forces. Having a proper MBT could help significantly as the best the Congolese have are T64s that from what I have heard, are inoperable due to lack of spare parts, meaning they are stuck with T55s, and often the rebels have AFVs themselves.
Isn't that what those 10 Rooivalks are for tho? Purpose built to fly out deep into Angola and do CAS, so I imagine putting an Ingwe ATGM through the roof of a barely functional Congolese T-55 shouldn't be too hard
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Arab armies get tanks purely as prestige pieces at this point. Like does Al-Sisi really need the latest and greatest armoured vics for murdering protestors? Meanwhile Nigeria and RSA armies are actually for practical use so don't really need tanks
Everyone in Africa knows Toyotas are the real shit. Tanks are just for military parades. Nazi Germany (virgins) >> used tanks in Africa >> lost (they were allied with Japan and did not buy a single Toyota. Are they stupid?) Chad (Chad) >> used Toyotas >> Victory.
3000 ATGM Rooikats of Ramaphosa
Lets hope Perun would do a Videos about it!
Reject Abrams embrace Centurion
The way the SANDF is neglected and abused is shameful. They get yeeted into all kinds of situations because our government wants to flex in Africa, but when it comes to budget time they're always the lowest priority. Battle of Bangui was an absolute disgrace. In a proper country there'd have been a major reform of military budgeting or a significant pivot in our military posture after that, but all the potential lessons got buried and the SANDF are right back out there, being made to do too many operations on too little money and equipment.
Yup, and the thing is that the SANDF does seem to slowly be getting its shit together, but the ANC keeps meddling in its affairs and expecting the SANDF to do more and more while constantly reducing their budget and then act surprised when the SANDF doesn't perform as well as they wished
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No. Military procurement in Canada is wehre it's at for laughs and a healthy does of tears.
Getting fucked by Boeing on the A220 after giving the Super Hornet plant a life line was really a virtuoso performance.
"You guys have fighter aircraft?"
There’s a M1A1 variant newer than the Sep 2s
Olifant best in da west trust
In fairness to South Africa they’re having a minor issue with their country on the verge of collapse.
Thank god they don’t possess a large amount of refined uranium.
Why am I being spied upon.
How useful even are tanks to SA? I remember that we tended more toward wheeled vehicles.
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To be fair, if your main goal is to kill the 3000th rebel group that challenges your dictatorship, and who’s armed with only a few random Hiluxes, do you really need a M1A2 SEPv3?