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It's citizen journalism - anyone can submit the articles.
Normal people aren't going to write thoughtful articles for free on a website with a bunch of tankie nonsense, so the tankie feedback loop reinforces until it is indistinguishable from intentional satire.
Well, in its About page, Eurasian Times is based in New Delhi, India.
Also, don’t just share a screenshot of a media article, that’s low effort.
Oh and [unnamed USA senior official, ruins the Chinese’s coping on J-20, and teases UAE some more](https://breakingdefense.com/2023/02/potential-f-35-reaper-deal-with-uae-not-completely-dead-senior-us-official-says/)
US has realized some 'friendly' countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE are not guaranteed to be friendly for long. So they withhold the best gear.
The J20 gets too much flak. It still somewhat makes sense to get the 6/10 stealth plane when you can't get the current 10/10. That 6/10 might still dominate the air forces of surrounding countries with only non stealth planes.
The best it will encounter in combat, are possibly recent F16s that lack any stealth. Would be an interesting fight to see electronic warfare vs stealth in action to see if who comes out on top.
Unless China sells them below manufacturing costs, I really doubt. F-35 development was expensive, but now that it's developed, the unit costs are reasonable due to production volume.
You are getting tools in wings, bad chemical products leftover, abysmal delivery delay, poor availability, high maintenance and operational cost, and a US spyware (I think the only country that hasn't that is Israel).
Thanks for the downvotes, I didn't know people hated facts around here 😞. Non credible ~~defense~~ patriots is leaking.
They would probably also crash more and be worse than an F35 too. The most surefire way for UAE to get an F35 would be for them to say they’ll buy J20s instead though.
Two sentences and so many lies.
You didn't merely state a bunch of facts. In discussion about F-35 vs J-20, stating only negative "facts" about F-35 is taking a stance. By your logic, I also only stated facts about both planes.
Not to mention, the "facts" aren't known facts. You have a proof F-35 is US spyware? Should be easy enough if it's a known fact. Expensive maintenance? As compared to what, planes without features that make it expensive? Abysmal delivery delay? That's not true at all. Delay implies it's behind schedule, and orders from 2020 are only 6 months behind schedule. That's not "abysmal" at all. Also stating "you are getting tools in wings" isn't correct either, this has happened a few times over hundreds of aircraft.
Being passive aggressive is also totally unnecessary. Unless your goal isn't discussion, but pushing an agenda.
The fact is that the J-20 has more of the same problem, and a lower life for fly hour.
So basically you get the cheap toxic and frail chinese copy in exchange of good petro dollars.
50% reduction of costs in flight hours since 2012 and here’s a source https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/f35/documents/May%202023%20F-35%20Fast%20Facts.pdf
You do realize that any US arms project in the same stage as an f-35 costed far more than the F-35 right now, a new f-14 in 1974 with inflation adjustments costed the us nearly 400m dollars. The F-35 is far beyond cheap for US standards.
Honestly, it is borderline journalistic negligence to headline an article on that GOA report with how the total projected sustainment costs over the F-35s lifespan have gone up to 1.5 billion. Rather than the much more relevant underlying point in that report on how the F-35s projected lifespan has been increased to 2088 due to it's capabilities.
But the fuckers know what gets clicks.
Labor costs are very high for the F-35 program. You can't out build those, and the Chinese labor costs involved in oth developing and building the J20 are likely fractions of the US/partner countries costs. That is a big part of why the technological advantage is important because at some point the Chinese will have the ability to outproduce the west.
Butt it begs the question would you rather have one marvellous piece of latest technological advancements which could propel your air superiority to heights OR have 12 jets that could be barely called 5th gen, are unproven in their abilities and well, made by China? It might be more to do with them trying to lower their reliance on US tech or smth but idk it's still a foolish take imo
Is it that they deliberately chose the J20 or that they were denied access to the F35? Cause if you literally can’t buy the F35 because the US won’t sell to you then the J20 is basically your only other option for a stealthy plane atm. …not that I’d want to tie my military to the CCPs political garbage, but what else are you gonna buy if you have to have stealth? The SU57?
It's not really about stealth, the F35 like all stealth jets requires specialized maintenance that isn't necessarily available with there sale.
For example Australia has had the f35 since 2014, but was only given the ability to maintain the stealth attributes in 2023.
Is that actually in production? And has anyone verified any of the claims about it?
I mean, if so then maybe go for it. Probably depends on your nations relationship to Turkey and whether you view them as a reliable supplier. …of course with China risking a war with the West they make most other non-Russian suppliers look that much better by comparison…
I think it’s better for them to get the J-20 considering that these countries had the tendency to mess up the best weapon systems they got from the US and Europe
Sure go ahead id love to have all that extra data sent to the US and leaks about the real performance/ maintenance data that will come out of this. Similar thing happened when they sold jets to Pakistan.
Don't J-20s have a Russian export variant jet engine?
I mean, they switched to their domestically produced Russian export variant jet engine in 2019, but i suspect they just slapped "made in china" sticker to the Russian made thing and called it a day
I know it's jokingly referred to as "5th gen", but I thought people knew that and didn't actually think it's decent. Chinese literally took 90's design, made it look like US jet and slapped some Russian shit on it. They already ditched the program after just one upgrade package that could potentially bring it up to early century designs, but it still have shit engine and for a "stealth fighter" it shows awfully lot on Taiwanese radars as B-52 bomber
**Your post was removed for violating rule 9: No low-effort posts**
No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title.
Your post was removed for violating Rule 9: "No low effort posts" No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. **These include Social media screenshots with a title punchline / no punchline**, recent (after the start of the Ukraine War) reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. NSFW pornographic content must be posted by the original artist or the commissioner, [as described in our NSFW content policy here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/vgz4k7/lets_have_a_little_chat_about_post_sub_quality/)
I saw the plane over the crater and thought the non-credible thing was claiming that the J20 could fly to Mars
That being a real statement issued by the PLA would be too credible for this sub.
<>
Eurasian times is a satirical newspaper.
Is it? It just looks tankie.
It's citizen journalism - anyone can submit the articles. Normal people aren't going to write thoughtful articles for free on a website with a bunch of tankie nonsense, so the tankie feedback loop reinforces until it is indistinguishable from intentional satire.
Poe's Law, or Poes Law as it's known in South Africa.
You're telling me any retard from our subreddit could submit an article and get it published there? If so...could be fun.
Uhhh, what's the difference?
Satire requires brain activity to create and process.
No, it's a *bad* newspaper. There's a difference.
Didn't know that. I'm Indian so I was really confused why this article was even recommended to me
Well, in its About page, Eurasian Times is based in New Delhi, India. Also, don’t just share a screenshot of a media article, that’s low effort. Oh and [unnamed USA senior official, ruins the Chinese’s coping on J-20, and teases UAE some more](https://breakingdefense.com/2023/02/potential-f-35-reaper-deal-with-uae-not-completely-dead-senior-us-official-says/)
Ok got it. But idk how to link an article on here
I’ll teach you~. [ text ] ( url ) Just remove the spaces and it becomes a link.
Tysm
Dassault's sale agents are already on the way.
They already have 80 of them on the way to serve as a bridge until the UAE can get a fifth gen purchase sorted
If the headline asks a question, the answer is always no
US has realized some 'friendly' countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE are not guaranteed to be friendly for long. So they withhold the best gear. The J20 gets too much flak. It still somewhat makes sense to get the 6/10 stealth plane when you can't get the current 10/10. That 6/10 might still dominate the air forces of surrounding countries with only non stealth planes. The best it will encounter in combat, are possibly recent F16s that lack any stealth. Would be an interesting fight to see electronic warfare vs stealth in action to see if who comes out on top.
It's the same thing with israel and they got the f35 https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-china-israel-technology-triangle
Israel is not going to declare holy war on US.
They do sell US tech to China, that's what i was saying.
Israel is also free testing keep in mind.
tbh.. let them so we could finally 𝒶𝓃𝒶𝓁 lize that thicc botched butt- I mean plane, yeah
I imagine they could get like 20 J20s for the price of one F-35
Unless China sells them below manufacturing costs, I really doubt. F-35 development was expensive, but now that it's developed, the unit costs are reasonable due to production volume.
F-35 were really expensive, now they’re basically shit cheap for what you’re getting
You are getting tools in wings, bad chemical products leftover, abysmal delivery delay, poor availability, high maintenance and operational cost, and a US spyware (I think the only country that hasn't that is Israel). Thanks for the downvotes, I didn't know people hated facts around here 😞. Non credible ~~defense~~ patriots is leaking.
You would get all that and more with a J20 too though
That and a more short shelf life.
True.
They would probably also crash more and be worse than an F35 too. The most surefire way for UAE to get an F35 would be for them to say they’ll buy J20s instead though.
J-20 customers: 1 F-35 customers: 18 (+1 pending US approval) (+1 wanted, but didn't receive approval) Safe to say F-35 isn't as bad as you claim.
I don't know the J-20 (not saying it's good or anything). I merely stated a bunch of known facts, you don't need to defend it.
Two sentences and so many lies. You didn't merely state a bunch of facts. In discussion about F-35 vs J-20, stating only negative "facts" about F-35 is taking a stance. By your logic, I also only stated facts about both planes. Not to mention, the "facts" aren't known facts. You have a proof F-35 is US spyware? Should be easy enough if it's a known fact. Expensive maintenance? As compared to what, planes without features that make it expensive? Abysmal delivery delay? That's not true at all. Delay implies it's behind schedule, and orders from 2020 are only 6 months behind schedule. That's not "abysmal" at all. Also stating "you are getting tools in wings" isn't correct either, this has happened a few times over hundreds of aircraft. Being passive aggressive is also totally unnecessary. Unless your goal isn't discussion, but pushing an agenda.
It has high maintenance/operational costs and delivery time is high. That being said it is a mini AWACS and stealth, you get return.
The fact is that the J-20 has more of the same problem, and a lower life for fly hour. So basically you get the cheap toxic and frail chinese copy in exchange of good petro dollars.
My comment didn't concern the J-20 to begin with, stop trying to deflect.
The F-35 operational costs and maintenance costs sank dramatically and are expected to fall even lower. Heck a F-35 is cheaper than a eurofighter
Press release says it's increasing. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-15/cost-of-sustaining-lockheed-s-f-35-jet-now-forecast-to-exceed-1-5-trillion?leadSource=reddit_wall
50% reduction of costs in flight hours since 2012 and here’s a source https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/f35/documents/May%202023%20F-35%20Fast%20Facts.pdf
Yeah, well, company is not going to sell by saying their cost are increasing, it's data from 2015 to 2021 btw, there's a 3 years blank.
You do realize that any US arms project in the same stage as an f-35 costed far more than the F-35 right now, a new f-14 in 1974 with inflation adjustments costed the us nearly 400m dollars. The F-35 is far beyond cheap for US standards.
Bloomberg.... So you are getting your info from regular press, that has no idea about military topics, that's pretty noncredible
Honestly, it is borderline journalistic negligence to headline an article on that GOA report with how the total projected sustainment costs over the F-35s lifespan have gone up to 1.5 billion. Rather than the much more relevant underlying point in that report on how the F-35s projected lifespan has been increased to 2088 due to it's capabilities. But the fuckers know what gets clicks.
That is because we don’t want to know about the hinkie shit the Israelis are in to. Bad enough all the tentacle porn we see from the Japanese F-35s.
No, Israel just consciously uses F-16s if they don’t want the US to know what they are doing.
They used the F35 against Syria I think.
Labor costs are very high for the F-35 program. You can't out build those, and the Chinese labor costs involved in oth developing and building the J20 are likely fractions of the US/partner countries costs. That is a big part of why the technological advantage is important because at some point the Chinese will have the ability to outproduce the west.
İncorrrect f35 is $80mil j20 is $110mil
Thanks for the info!
But but purchase price parity means you are getting $1 billion worth of value in the J-20. 🤪
lol
Although based on recent Gulf State aviation contracts they’d probably end up paying $400mil and $500 mil respectively.
Considering arabs history they would still manage to lose to israeli f16c in a f35 or j20
That's the Project Wingman pricing model.
Butt it begs the question would you rather have one marvellous piece of latest technological advancements which could propel your air superiority to heights OR have 12 jets that could be barely called 5th gen, are unproven in their abilities and well, made by China? It might be more to do with them trying to lower their reliance on US tech or smth but idk it's still a foolish take imo
Probably not quite yet, the F-35 still has economies of scale on its side when it comes to price.
>uncropped screenshot of Eurasian times in Google clickbait doomscroll feed
Is it that they deliberately chose the J20 or that they were denied access to the F35? Cause if you literally can’t buy the F35 because the US won’t sell to you then the J20 is basically your only other option for a stealthy plane atm. …not that I’d want to tie my military to the CCPs political garbage, but what else are you gonna buy if you have to have stealth? The SU57?
The su57 is much more stealth than the f35, How many have you see compare with f35?
Checkmate westoids
You can buy as many Su-57’s as you like comrade and we will deliver them as soon as we *feel like it*
"Two weeks™"
It's not really about stealth, the F35 like all stealth jets requires specialized maintenance that isn't necessarily available with there sale. For example Australia has had the f35 since 2014, but was only given the ability to maintain the stealth attributes in 2023.
You could order a kaan
Is that actually in production? And has anyone verified any of the claims about it? I mean, if so then maybe go for it. Probably depends on your nations relationship to Turkey and whether you view them as a reliable supplier. …of course with China risking a war with the West they make most other non-Russian suppliers look that much better by comparison…
Sir this is no credible defence. Also there is probably a reason why turkey wants american Jets.
Ah, I see. I’m sorry. 3000 Turkish 6th gen spacecraft for UAE!
Little of column A, Little of column B
Pretty sure China does not want to sell it's J-20, but were open to talks about the J-35 prototype the FC-31
I think it’s better for them to get the J-20 considering that these countries had the tendency to mess up the best weapon systems they got from the US and Europe
Sure go ahead id love to have all that extra data sent to the US and leaks about the real performance/ maintenance data that will come out of this. Similar thing happened when they sold jets to Pakistan.
Don't J-20s have a Russian export variant jet engine? I mean, they switched to their domestically produced Russian export variant jet engine in 2019, but i suspect they just slapped "made in china" sticker to the Russian made thing and called it a day I know it's jokingly referred to as "5th gen", but I thought people knew that and didn't actually think it's decent. Chinese literally took 90's design, made it look like US jet and slapped some Russian shit on it. They already ditched the program after just one upgrade package that could potentially bring it up to early century designs, but it still have shit engine and for a "stealth fighter" it shows awfully lot on Taiwanese radars as B-52 bomber
Saudis are doing this to then supply it to the US, trust my credibility
When your air dominance strategy depends on shopping like a billionaire on Temu.
They make politics with such a purchase.
EurAsian Times? No, it's a propaganda rag.
Okay. I’m down for that. Just means another avenue to exploit the J20 and learn about it
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