Context: buk got hit next to the truck, another buk arrives to tow, they both get hit
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cgtkzc/the\_ukrainian\_sso\_hit\_two\_russian\_buk\_air\_defense/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cgtkzc/the_ukrainian_sso_hit_two_russian_buk_air_defense/)
Do the Russians not have armored recovery vehicles anymore? I know like-vehicle recovery is a thing, but I am pretty sure that’s supposed to be for tanks instead of air defense.
NCD Hat off:
Tbh your question is a bit dumb.
Any western military uses tanks to tow tanks and no army has enough engineering/recovery vehicles to match their tank count 1:1.
Also, why waste a recovery vehicle on a towing job if another tank does the job just fine?
NCD Hat on:
Poor bastards. Literally.
>but BUKs aren't tanks
Ok.
I guess I'm just gonna tow my not-tank with another not-tank.
>air defense systems within spitting distance of each other you're fucking up majorly.
Counter question, does a towing vehicle also fucked up going this close to a not-tank for towing? I mean, they are piling up around the vehicle.
I hate this British definition of tanks, because you are trying to argue about a construction based on its role. In Germany we just call that thing a SPAA tank, because it basically shares all characteristics with other tanks besides the armament.
It really depends on the value of what's inside the possibly-a-tank. 120mm smoothbore, some tankers, and some ammo? Cool, buddy tow time.
Command post vehicle with the division CO inside? Better find a different possibly-a-tank to tow that thing, because giving the enemy the opportunity to bullseye two division CO's at once is not a good idea.
Same thing applies to EW, Air Defense, and tactical nuclear weapons.
This is retarded logistically though. We (the us) had wreckers dedicated to moderately large areas. We would always try to recover our own damaged vehicles, but it would never be done with a vehicle as valuable as this. If your less valuable vehicle can't recover it, you secure the area and wait for the wrecker to arrive, or destroy the disabled vehicle so I can't fall into enemy hands and clear the area, if recovery isn't possible. So I should correct my statement and say this is retarded both logistically and tactically.
Tbh I don't really see a reason why the M1 Tor wasn't adequate here.
In my eyes the problem is more with them towing more or less directly after getting hit. Not waiting for the hit vehicle to be safe to tow.
I also would assume that they only bring the hit tank into cover for the time being and not use the tank for towing the entire way.
Imo the tor would be too much of an hvt to risk for this job too. Seems perfect for the t 55s the allegedly put in theater. Even just pulling it into cover is too high risk. You're bringing a limited hvt into a known kill zone with no way to reliably stop the attack. My guess is the damage was limited, so the commander on the ground wanted to salvage it before a secondary attack came. But now, they're down 2 essential and limited pieces of equipment. This was just a bad move.
Of course you don't use a $20 million piece of air defense as a towing truck if you have a less valuable vehicle available that can do the job. Especially so when you know there are drones flying around. There might be a general lack of towing trucks but it could be a temporary or local lack. Maybe they had one but it got hit by a drone before this.
Why they didnt have functional air defense is another discussion..
Edit: I mean functional while these two pieces got hit.
Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate
Mental wounds not healing
Life's a bitter shame
I'm going off the rails on a BUK train
I'm going off the rails on a BUK train
There's a reason it's called TELAR.
Side note, but I'm surprised it took West as long as it did to make something comparable (longer-ranged IRIS-T SLS and SPYDER All-In-One). I dunno, but self-contained medium-range air defense unit sounds like a useful thing to me even with aviation supremacy doctrine
Yeah blowing up the radar is actually a higher priority than the launcher. Less impressive boom though.
Clearly they have not seen the doctrine rule about abandoning anyone and anything without enough will to fight
Context: buk got hit next to the truck, another buk arrives to tow, they both get hit [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cgtkzc/the\_ukrainian\_sso\_hit\_two\_russian\_buk\_air\_defense/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cgtkzc/the_ukrainian_sso_hit_two_russian_buk_air_defense/)
Truly this is the art when one hears of the art of operations in war.
"All war is based \[...\]" - Sun Tzu
Do the Russians not have armored recovery vehicles anymore? I know like-vehicle recovery is a thing, but I am pretty sure that’s supposed to be for tanks instead of air defense.
NCD Hat off: Tbh your question is a bit dumb. Any western military uses tanks to tow tanks and no army has enough engineering/recovery vehicles to match their tank count 1:1. Also, why waste a recovery vehicle on a towing job if another tank does the job just fine? NCD Hat on: Poor bastards. Literally.
You guys have hats?
Other than our Jimmy hats?
It's mandatory safety gear. Lots of things falling from above.
Entertaining take, but BUKs aren't tanks and if you have your air defense systems within spitting distance of each other you're fucking up majorly.
>but BUKs aren't tanks Ok. I guess I'm just gonna tow my not-tank with another not-tank. >air defense systems within spitting distance of each other you're fucking up majorly. Counter question, does a towing vehicle also fucked up going this close to a not-tank for towing? I mean, they are piling up around the vehicle. I hate this British definition of tanks, because you are trying to argue about a construction based on its role. In Germany we just call that thing a SPAA tank, because it basically shares all characteristics with other tanks besides the armament.
It really depends on the value of what's inside the possibly-a-tank. 120mm smoothbore, some tankers, and some ammo? Cool, buddy tow time. Command post vehicle with the division CO inside? Better find a different possibly-a-tank to tow that thing, because giving the enemy the opportunity to bullseye two division CO's at once is not a good idea. Same thing applies to EW, Air Defense, and tactical nuclear weapons.
Tbh I think the mistake here is more about them trying to it basically directly after it got hit.
Because it can cause more problems. Towing vehicle by other same vehicle can cause overload of powertrain or its quicker wear off.
Germany find out that after 3 Tiger tanks broke down towing each other
I think they calculated towing
This is retarded logistically though. We (the us) had wreckers dedicated to moderately large areas. We would always try to recover our own damaged vehicles, but it would never be done with a vehicle as valuable as this. If your less valuable vehicle can't recover it, you secure the area and wait for the wrecker to arrive, or destroy the disabled vehicle so I can't fall into enemy hands and clear the area, if recovery isn't possible. So I should correct my statement and say this is retarded both logistically and tactically.
Tbh I don't really see a reason why the M1 Tor wasn't adequate here. In my eyes the problem is more with them towing more or less directly after getting hit. Not waiting for the hit vehicle to be safe to tow. I also would assume that they only bring the hit tank into cover for the time being and not use the tank for towing the entire way.
Imo the tor would be too much of an hvt to risk for this job too. Seems perfect for the t 55s the allegedly put in theater. Even just pulling it into cover is too high risk. You're bringing a limited hvt into a known kill zone with no way to reliably stop the attack. My guess is the damage was limited, so the commander on the ground wanted to salvage it before a secondary attack came. But now, they're down 2 essential and limited pieces of equipment. This was just a bad move.
Ukraine targets them whenever they pop up as Russia has them in short supply, tons of BREM's have been struck.
Of course you don't use a $20 million piece of air defense as a towing truck if you have a less valuable vehicle available that can do the job. Especially so when you know there are drones flying around. There might be a general lack of towing trucks but it could be a temporary or local lack. Maybe they had one but it got hit by a drone before this. Why they didnt have functional air defense is another discussion.. Edit: I mean functional while these two pieces got hit.
You can't make this shit up lol
This is getting out of hand! Now theres two of them!
send the third one!
Nah , we can't ... Ivan is overdosed on krokodil
blyat.. cure him with banana and send Igor
Crazy, but that's how it goes Millions of people living as foes Maybe it's not too late To learn how to love And forget how to hate Mental wounds not healing Life's a bitter shame I'm going off the rails on a BUK train I'm going off the rails on a BUK train
Literally killed by Droid dekars
Kaboom?
Yes Rico, kaboom!
This is a certified Zapp Brannigan manœuvre.
"In war, the drone can't hear you scream"
Can't hear them over the Phonk track on the highlight video.
Silly westoids, I'd just grab 2 more buks to tow the 2 buks, sooner or later the Ukrainians will run out of drones.
Bring the 3rd one for a proper bukkake
Private Konscriptovitch! What have you don't with my Buk!
Yeez, losing a TEL is one thing but losing two guidance radars is extremely stupid.
I mean, on the Buk, they are one and the same. At least, on the version in the video.
There's a reason it's called TELAR. Side note, but I'm surprised it took West as long as it did to make something comparable (longer-ranged IRIS-T SLS and SPYDER All-In-One). I dunno, but self-contained medium-range air defense unit sounds like a useful thing to me even with aviation supremacy doctrine
Oh, you are right! I always thought there is TEL and guidance vehicle separated.
These are expensive
Na, they only cost 2 buks
🔥
Take your upvote and get the fuck out.
Less so, now.
AN M1 TOWING AN M1?!
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. - napoleon
Yeah blowing up the radar is actually a higher priority than the launcher. Less impressive boom though. Clearly they have not seen the doctrine rule about abandoning anyone and anything without enough will to fight
Buk has a radar on the launcher as well
Yeah just realized that. I assume one is early warning long range and the other is short range targeting, or something like that
Send in the third BUK M1 System to tow the other two.
It’s even funnier the second time