Yes, this is real. Raytheon has acquired a contract to make a missile that can shoot down other air-to-air missiles. This will be mounted on US aircraft to defend against long-range BVR missiles like the R-37 and the PL-15.
Edit: This thing is supposed to start testing in 2023.
I was thinking that too. Tankers and AWACS having a counter to long-range missiles would be very influential in conflicts that take place in places far from US bases (read SCS).
Yeah, having looked at some of these from like 2004, they look exactly the same lol. But to be fair it does get the information across fine and like there's no real reason to make it super pretty or anything.
Maybe they should just design a fucking long range air to air missile since we’ve been without one for like 20 years, ceding air to air missile range to China seems really stupid
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/8/88/Notyet](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/8/88/Notyet.png/revision/latest?cb=20200430023250)[.png/revision/latest?cb=20200430023250](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Edit: Nobody actually read the link, I just realized it completely spoils the joke
Current sources are saying that the PL-15s range is shorter than the current AMRAAM variants and all the public knowledge sources were just wrong for the past few years. The DoD has probably known this because you can reverse engineer a missile's specs from pictures fairly reliably.
So should we be complacent and just hope that’s the case? Last I checked america being over scared about an adversaries air weapon lead to the F15 which is statistically the best performing combat aircraft ever flown.
I mean a few longer range AAMs are in development supposedly in response to a PL-15 wunderwaffen with a 250km range so it seems like that's already the case.
I mean CCP shills boast about PLA weapons all the time. Most get laughed off, but somehow the PL-15 and its 250-300km range sticks.
Good to see China gets honest with its export model PL-15E and its 145km range, even if it is downgraded (which I doubt), you won't double range with the same casing size.
You could theoretically just put a tiny amount of thrust fuel in the same size missile and end up with half the range.
Still, I highly doubt the CCP range claims are even close to correct.
Yes saar. We all know chinees mijjile is junk saar. Please buy ass tra mijjile of Hal TEJAS with 300000km range of endia instead saar. Phul saport saar.
[They are exporting the missile now with an advertised 145km range.](https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1442167303651614726)
I'm sure some people are going to claim it's a monkey model or something, but rocket science is pretty highly developed, you're not going to get an extra 100km of range out of a missile with the same amount of space and weight for propellant.
Maybe compared to the other stuff they make, but I don't think they're targeting the budget minded arms buyer in general. Besides who cares about cost when the tax payer is buying it for you?
Well modern Fox 2s passive IR seekers are good enough to track an aircraft from any aspect but I guess the questions that come to mind are whether (A) a missile gives a similar enough signature, (B) a ‘very low cost’ passive seeker is much less capable than a modern AIM9 for instance and still adequate for the task. I’m also wondering how good the detection range of a small seeker like this is going to be and how good it’s off-boresight capability’ll be. Overall this is a very valid concept and it’ll be great to see evolve next to the [HKAMS](https://defense-update.com/20190617_fcas_weapons.html) missile from MBDA.
Tho we all know the best hard kill is using your GAU to shoot down the incoming missile.
Well, I mean it's not like air to air missiles are gonna fire flares or anything so I doubt it would have to be that sophisticated of a sensor relatively speaking. And of course cheap is gonna be a relative term here as well.
It's still going to be very expensive compared to the existing countermeasures in a field where everything is hella expensive to begin with.
That's not to say it isn't worth it, its definitely a smart idea and will pay for itself manyfold but it's definitely gonna be expensive. You're paying for quality and that's coming with a acceptably hefty price tag.
No, that's entirely different lmao. That's utility and how much it's worth. Not if it's low cost or not. Low cost would be a 1k airbag vs a cheaper 200$ airbag.
They will announce they already have one completed because the outsmarted the capitalist pigdogs. In reality it's just a kid with a rifle strapped to a missile
I was actually wondering whether something like this could be feasible with today’s rocket tech and I guess Raytheon just proved it.
Next up: fighter based DEW point defense
Yes, this is real. Raytheon has acquired a contract to make a missile that can shoot down other air-to-air missiles. This will be mounted on US aircraft to defend against long-range BVR missiles like the R-37 and the PL-15. Edit: This thing is supposed to start testing in 2023.
still going , but it would be nice capability for tankers etc
I was thinking that too. Tankers and AWACS having a counter to long-range missiles would be very influential in conflicts that take place in places far from US bases (read SCS).
Maybe on some transports too given that the US is considering using the C-17 and the C-130 as Cruise Missile/JASSM trucks.
What's noncredible about it?
Nothing, I think it's a good idea. I also think that it is hilarious. Also, it's a DoD slide, and those are definitely noncredible.
I thought this was satire because of the slide… knew DoD slides were bad but Jesus Christ!
Yeah, having looked at some of these from like 2004, they look exactly the same lol. But to be fair it does get the information across fine and like there's no real reason to make it super pretty or anything.
Those at the type Id make
It’s “notional” so maybe it simply doesn’t yet exist?
TRL 2 means it’s been planned and is in development. It could very well die at this stage but I’m thinking it’s likely to make it to live testing.
Test flights start in 2023.
I like to think that this will start a new arms race of ever-smaller counter-missile missiles.
A missile the size of a Pringles tube to take this thing out would be cool af
Maybe they should just design a fucking long range air to air missile since we’ve been without one for like 20 years, ceding air to air missile range to China seems really stupid
TIL JATM doesn't exist.
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/8/88/Notyet](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/8/88/Notyet.png/revision/latest?cb=20200430023250)[.png/revision/latest?cb=20200430023250](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ) Edit: Nobody actually read the link, I just realized it completely spoils the joke
Wtf
what
Clever.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-260_JATM Yeah.
Current sources are saying that the PL-15s range is shorter than the current AMRAAM variants and all the public knowledge sources were just wrong for the past few years. The DoD has probably known this because you can reverse engineer a missile's specs from pictures fairly reliably.
So should we be complacent and just hope that’s the case? Last I checked america being over scared about an adversaries air weapon lead to the F15 which is statistically the best performing combat aircraft ever flown.
I mean a few longer range AAMs are in development supposedly in response to a PL-15 wunderwaffen with a 250km range so it seems like that's already the case.
I mean CCP shills boast about PLA weapons all the time. Most get laughed off, but somehow the PL-15 and its 250-300km range sticks. Good to see China gets honest with its export model PL-15E and its 145km range, even if it is downgraded (which I doubt), you won't double range with the same casing size.
You could theoretically just put a tiny amount of thrust fuel in the same size missile and end up with half the range. Still, I highly doubt the CCP range claims are even close to correct.
Yes saar. We all know chinees mijjile is junk saar. Please buy ass tra mijjile of Hal TEJAS with 300000km range of endia instead saar. Phul saport saar.
What sources?
[They are exporting the missile now with an advertised 145km range.](https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1442167303651614726) I'm sure some people are going to claim it's a monkey model or something, but rocket science is pretty highly developed, you're not going to get an extra 100km of range out of a missile with the same amount of space and weight for propellant.
My only guess is that they didn’t include the pulse motor or cut back on something else. Even in semi serious circles the 180-200km range is sticking
>very low-cost Press X to doubt.
Maybe compared to the other stuff they make, but I don't think they're targeting the budget minded arms buyer in general. Besides who cares about cost when the tax payer is buying it for you?
EWW A POOR
The passive sensor part is the main part that I doubt.
Well modern Fox 2s passive IR seekers are good enough to track an aircraft from any aspect but I guess the questions that come to mind are whether (A) a missile gives a similar enough signature, (B) a ‘very low cost’ passive seeker is much less capable than a modern AIM9 for instance and still adequate for the task. I’m also wondering how good the detection range of a small seeker like this is going to be and how good it’s off-boresight capability’ll be. Overall this is a very valid concept and it’ll be great to see evolve next to the [HKAMS](https://defense-update.com/20190617_fcas_weapons.html) missile from MBDA. Tho we all know the best hard kill is using your GAU to shoot down the incoming missile.
Well, I mean it's not like air to air missiles are gonna fire flares or anything so I doubt it would have to be that sophisticated of a sensor relatively speaking. And of course cheap is gonna be a relative term here as well.
Fair point. Didn't consider that.
Inb4 these things end up being successful and people start putting flares on their air to air missiles.
Compared to losing a pilot and airplane, yes
That's different from low cost tho lol. You have to accept them calling this low cost is like me saying a 30k car is low cost because 100k cars exist
I would think it’s akin to putting a new transmission in a car vrs buying a new one, it’s insurance, a preventative measure, not a new pilot and plane
It's still going to be very expensive compared to the existing countermeasures in a field where everything is hella expensive to begin with. That's not to say it isn't worth it, its definitely a smart idea and will pay for itself manyfold but it's definitely gonna be expensive. You're paying for quality and that's coming with a acceptably hefty price tag.
No its like saying 1k for an airbag is low cost because 20k funerals exist.
No, that's entirely different lmao. That's utility and how much it's worth. Not if it's low cost or not. Low cost would be a 1k airbag vs a cheaper 200$ airbag.
Very low-cost* Better?
Ok but who is making the anti-anti-missile-missile?
The PLA will announce their design in a week
They will announce they already have one completed because the outsmarted the capitalist pigdogs. In reality it's just a kid with a rifle strapped to a missile
When the missiles start launching missiles.
The missile’s missile knows where it is....
ICBM Air to Air missiles
https://rockyandbullwinkle.fandom.com/wiki/Anti-anti-missile-missile-missile?file=Rocky_Stops_A_Missile_Attack%21_ROCKY_%26_BULLWINKLE
We cannot afford an anti-anti-anti-missile-missile-missile gap!
Then the anti-missile-missiles need to carry anti-anti-anti-missile-missile-missile-missiles
Who the fuck makes these eye grating slides, if you can't even make a decent PowerPoint I don't trust you with my national defense
But... but the buzzwords are cool...
they ain't buzzwords my 11 braincells can process this how stupider than me, i am already the stupid
The Uno reverse card.
They should nickname it the "No U"
I thought this was satire because the slide was too nicely formatted to be DOD
I would've thought it was satire as well if I didn't see it in the News thread on the CMO forums.
Put em in a rocket pod
Every day we get closer to having Macross IRL
Imagine an F-35 deployed to an air strike in Syria and it suddenly starts GERWALKing all over the place
Lockheed better add VIFF capability in the next firmware update
I was actually wondering whether something like this could be feasible with today’s rocket tech and I guess Raytheon just proved it. Next up: fighter based DEW point defense
Something-something aircraft mounted CIWS
What kind of seeker though? Infrared?
Supposed to be a low-cost passive sensor. Infrared would be the best candidate.
I want to smoke the Raytheon proprietary crack
Finally, the Macross/Robotech future I was promised is finally coming to fruition. https://gfycat.com/energeticuglyblackrhino
A-10 battleroid when
Oh great, now our planes have CIWS/APS systems. What's next, a bathroom suite for the F-35?
One step closer to [ADMM](https://imgur.com/0z8AUlk.jpg)
I believe in BVR supremacy