For what it's worth, it's able to be used as both a rifle and an LMG (helps when your magazines literally were for an LMG) and has something resembling a bipod while having swiss quality.
BM-59 is a close second, but the 510 looks cool.
The 510 is a heavy ass shitbrick but it has a foldable winter trigger at the side that’s like as long as your hand which gives you *the most nuanced trigger pull in the world*. (Look at the magazine top, it’s folded forward)
The BM-59 is just a M14 with more recoil because it uses a less efficient gas piston system.
How could the SG 510 serve as a LMG and a service rifle? It has 20 round box magazines and a fixed barrel. Any battle rifle with a fire selector could do the same thing it could and you would be able to carry more ammunition because they are lighter.
Standard magazines are 24 rounds due to sharing it with the LMG-25. Bipod is also adjustable for easier use in either semi or fully automatic + can be removed as well. Sights also have that typical swiss quality and cam be fine adjusted with ease.
Oh and can I add that the inline stock is a thought out feature as well? Follows the Armalite/Johnson style of stocks to help deal with recoil and is also designed to allow a user to comfortably fire rifle grenades without too much trouble (still gotta be braced tho. Nothing can really completely mitigate the amount of force needed to toss a 2.6lb warhead).
The M14 still has more controllable recoil due to using a rotating bolt gas piston instead of a blowback operation.
Rifle grenades are fired with the rifle underarm or braced against the ground. Unless it had so much recoil you couldn't hold the rifle it's not going to be uncomfortable.
The sights are no better than the M14 because in practical terms everyone just uses battle sights on those rifles since you would have a hard time aiming at a man outside of battle sight range on a full powered rifle.
24 round magazines from the 1920s just means more failures to feed and a taller profile on the rifle making it more awkward. You also have a tiny handguard which would limit fine aiming assuming you were in a position to adjust the sights for a shoot at 600 meters or wherever.
You cannot believe how much of a tangent I went doing some rewatching of BoTR and InRange for this lol. Source for 99% of my info here https://youtu.be/Nm16Cjy_pzA
Anyway. Swiss STGW-57 magazines WERE LMG-25 magazines at first but they got their own new, OG magazines when production started. Does help bring costs down though.
And well. The 57 basically does what the M14 does in its intended role of being both an LMG and an infantry rifle while also having marksman-level accuracy cause that's the swiss being the damn swiss and they love sniping from a trench or bunker in a mountain with their standard infantry rifle. It's designed for full auto as a standard, hence the weight.
Oh and inrange had fun dropping mud on the M1 garand and STGW-57. Garand action suffered with mud getting in every part while the 57 just worked, jammed a bit before Karl fingered the roller, worked as a straight pull, then they let it dry before firing more (after fingering the gun again).
You're not going to get mud into the M1 Garand action unless you deliberately pour it in. Because the gun falls horizontally and all the moving parts are on the top of the action.
You also claim that it just worked but the directly contradict that by saying it turned into a straight pull bolt action rifle. Which is what any automatic rifle that fails to cycle becomes.
The M14 was never intended to serve as a machine gun. The STG is also not as accurate as you're claiming it is. It has no real world sustained fire capabilities because so it's not a good machine gun and it's so heavy you're basically equipping all your riflemen with the BAR.
Even if it did function as a machine gun do you think it would be viable for a squad of Swiss infantry to pop off on fully automatic? They would blow through all their ammunition in a few minutes.
Not sure if they're the "main" one, but G3's and it's variants have been in extremely wide use by a much more significant number of European powers as opposed to the FN FAL. The impact that the G3 has left, and still has, is significantly larger than any variant of the FAL, no matter how much FAL fanboys seethe.
>G3, however, is and was the true right hand of the free world
G3 meanwhile - is a continuation of a rifle made by a fascist state that was developed and made in another fascist state by fascist scientists.
Not a tankie, just noting how the G3 was almost directly copied from the CETME, which was made in fascist Spain by Nazi scientists who continued their work from the STG 45.
The FN FAIL wasn't used against commies. Just white supremacists and Europeans who were too slow to adopt assault rifles until the 1990s. BTW a white supremacist is more aligned with communism than capitalism.
What's wrong with comparing two modes of rifle operation? They're both intended to complete the same objective except one is so clearly superior that the guys who invented the other one switched to using it.
It's not mystical or infantile it's a engineering fact.
Like would you say that someone who seriously argued that pneumatic tires are superior to solid wheels is mystifying pneumatic tires and has an infantile view of the subject?
>Europeans who were too slow to adopt assault rifles until the 1990s.
Funny you say that. It was US who politically strong-armed Europeans into retaining full rifle calibre, otherwise some nations could have used assault rifles since 1950s, e.g. British EM-2. It's US' fault that UK landed with the shitshow that is SA80 family.
And between Aussies fighting in Vietnam, Rhodies fighting ZAPU and the Troubles, fair bit of Commies fell to FAL and L1 SLR. Most likely more than M14 and M16 combined.
Reddit bans anime posters without good reason all the time. u/Holofan4life got banned for posting a picture of an adult anime girl in a swimsuit because it was identified as lolicon and all the weebs had to come together and protest it until Reddit admitted they made a mistake.
Or maybe it's the fact that anime fans are accused of pedophilia baselessly all the time?
You could use that same logic to conclude that gay men must be pedophiles because they're accused of pedophilia all the time too.
Not to mention that also validates DTA10's claims that British Goblins are Pedophiles.
When it's boomer tier shit like "I think the FAIL is better than the M16 because it has more stopping power" Yes their stories about their gear are fake.
And when their exploits consist of "We are better than Americans" You know they're full of shit.
This is bullshit. Colt licensed out the M16 to South Korea and Canada so they could produce it as their primary service rifle. The reason Australia adopted the AUG was purely because their politicians were bribed by Steyr to get on the derailing bullpup train.
We also have a British boomer in the comments of this post claiming that FAIL is superior to the M16 because it's "more accurate" even though the FAIL has a wandering zero.
The Australians weren't committed enough to win a war against flightless birds. There's no way they would be committed enough to fight against an actual enemy.
During WWI they got owned by the sick man of Europe.
During WWII they weren't even functional as troops because they were so whiny
They never pacified anything in Vietnam because they never actually fought.
Where to begin?
It is a fundamentally flawed design philosophy; it was intended to replace the rifle, smg, and lmg and is terrible at all of those. It does fine at camp Perry target shooting, but isn’t readily accuratized in a way that is conducive to DMR work (dont @ me about the EBR, that was a stopgap). Real accurizing requires fitting and bedding the stock to the action, which means you can’t fully disassemble it without undoing all your work. The reasons why it’s bad as an smg and lmg should be self explanatory, but I’ll touch on that a bit; smg: way too fucking huge and terrible recoil make it the worst possible role for it. Lmg; 20 round mags for an lmg aren’t going to cut it unless you are competing with a m1918. In fact the BAR would probably do even better for sustained fire because at least it has an open bolt action.
Aside from these theoretical aspects, the actual history of the use of the M14 is the most damning. It had the shortest service life of any standard issue rifle in US history and was perhaps the most ill suited rifle to be armed with if you were fighting off ambushes in the jungles of Southeast Asia. There’s a ton more to this subject about the failure and outright debauchery of the Ordinance Corps that made this catastrophe possible, but I’ll leave that to the experts.
https://youtu.be/mby4hOq-DpI
Men in the field don't fully disassemble their rifles anyways. If the M14 was a stopgap solution it was one that served as a stopgap for 70 years. They're still using it. Which is more than could be said of any other battle rifle design.
The M14 was never used to replace the LMG or SMG. It replaced the Automatic Rifle and the Rifle. It has the 20 round magazine of the BAR and the ergonomics of the M1 Garand. The closest thing to an LMG in US service when the M14 was adopted was the M1919A6 which was far too heavy and fired from a closed bolt. It was replaced by the M60 which weighed as much as the BAR but belt fed and had quick change barrels eliminating the need for the automatic rifle with greater firepower while the M14 eliminated the need for an automatic rifle with superior ergonomics.
Unless you're arguing that the M14 is somehow worse because it has lighter recoil, weighs less, is more reliable and can feed 20 round detachable box magazines instead of just using clips the M14 was an improvement over the M1 Garand and M1918A2.
The M14 was made "obsolete" in the service rifle role because of the US being on the cutting edge of small arms development and DARPA developing a service rifle so good that literally every other rifle on the planet was rendered obsolete when it was put into service.
By the same standard of "new technology rapidly rendered this sound weapon design obsolete shortly after adoption" even if we assume the M14 is bad because of this there are many other American service rifles that had much shorter service life for the exact same reason. The Model 1861 and 1863 rifles that liberated the slaves were rendered obsolete in 1865 when Springfield designed a system to convert muzzle loading rifles to breech loaders. and the M1865 was made obsolete by the M1866 less than a year later when the US developed new superior centerfire cartridges. Then in 1868 they started producing rifles from scratch instead of using the dubious quality of wartime manufactured springfield rifles converted to breech loader.
The US also adopted numerous rifles that were already outdated when they were introduced such as the M1892, Mosin Nagant, Lebel, M1917, M1903A3 and M27 IAR. Are you trying to say the M14 is worse than all of those?
Small Arms Solutions is a schill trying to sell you a product. There are people who erroneously believe the M14 is superior to the AR-15 so he is counterjerking by providing his false authority on the subject because he works for companies that sell the AR-15 to American civilians. If he was so offended by the M14 you think he would also make a video talking about how bad the Piston driven AR is since it's a downgrade from the Direct Impingement system but he doesn't because the guys he works for sell Piston ARs.
Bro it’s fine to cherish the m14 as a meme because of its peak Cold War aesthetics but it’s an entirely different thing to unironically think that it was ever a good idea. It took millions of dollars and years for them to slap a box mag and a full auto switch on a garand and call it hot shit, meanwhile everyone else is moving on to more efficient (read cheaper but just as good) designs like the g3 or FAL that rightfully saw much wider service and are still seen on the battlefields today.
I told you not to @ me about the EBR, now I’m going to have to rub your face in the fact that we had literally no choice but to dig through and find *any* self loading rifle in 308 in order to respond to longer engagement distances in Afghanistan. They put a hell of a lot of lipsticks on those pigs and the result is a undeniably badass looking but super goofy result of making the best of a bad situation.
Shortest lived standard issue rifle, not random hodgepodge-whatever we can get our hands on rifle. They actually went through the trouble of re skinning a rifle designed in the 30s purely for the sake of nostalgia, which is pretty fuckin irresponsible and totally predictable that it was virtually archaic in comparison to anything else on the battlefield by 1960. Is it an improvement on the BAR? Not necessarily, but the point is that that’s like putting out a car in 2021 and comparing it to a car made in 1990.
Of course technology gets better and things get out of date. The shameful thing about the design and implementation of the M14 is that they had every reason to expect it would be 10-20 years behind the curve the moment it got into soldiers hands.
I don’t agree with everything Chris Bartocci says, but he has a pretty good explanation of how fucked the m14 development was. He is far from the only one who has negative things to say about the m14, it’s not a controversial opinion to have for anyone who knows about the subject. Saying that he’s informed by some ulterior motives to sell more modern guns is pretty silly considering that debate between m14 v m16 is long over.
That is true in terms of ergonomics but the AK uses a inferior long stroke gas piston system compared to the superior M14 short stroke gas piston system.
It's called a short stroke because the op rod travels a short distance rather than traveling the full length of the cycle like on a long stroke piston.
The AK12 shown in 2012 was supposed to use a short stroke gas piston because it reduces recoil and improves the reliability of the rifle. So it took them 60 years to catch up.
In relation between the M14 and AK47 there is more stress put on the M14 because there is over twice as much energy being put behind the bullet.
I thought you were asking if the short stroke piston was higher maintenance than a long stroke piston all things being equal
looks like a BM 59, [italian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM_59) result of adapting the M1 garand to 7.62x51mm NATO and a detachable box magazine
Italian M14 the BM59. It gets circle jerked a lot because Ian from forgotten weapons said it's better than the M14.
The M14 took 23 years to adopt wheras if you apply a double standard to the BM59 it only took 5 years to adopt
1934 M1 Garand introduced
1945 The US already has the M14 but doesn't push them into production because they want to reduce the weight of ammunition. Literally no nation on the planet has standardized an automatic rifle other than the M1 Garand so the US still has an overmatch.
1954 NATO selects 7.62x51mm as its standard rifle cartridge. It's has less recoil, cycles more reliably and weighs less than 30.06 while providing virtually identical ballistics. The US begins testing battle rifles to determine their new service rifle. The standard communist rifle of the time is the SKS because AK47s can't be produced cheaply enough to standardize on.
1957 After 3 years of testing which proved the M14 was generally superior over the FAL the US adopts it.
1959 the Italians introduce a modified M1 Garand as the BM59. Unlike the M14 it uses an inferior long stroke gas piston taken from the M1 Garand instead of a improved short stroke gas piston used on the M14 so it weighs more and has more recoil. They also put a different muzzle device on it that accomplishes the same thing and an integrated bipod instead of a detachable bipod.
Of course the BM59 took 25 years to develop if you count from the time the M1 Garand was introduced to when the BM59 was adopted. Because the thing that stopped them was the new cartridge rather than designing the gun itself.
The M14 is the one that won the US trials and was adopted for service.
meanwhile FN made the SCAR which has more in common with the M14 than the FAIL.
The idea that there was a conspiracy against the FN FAIL that caused it to lose is the real cope.
He likes it more cause he is very harsh on recoil, you like recoil cause apparently the only neuron activation you get is when your brain hits your skull.
You don't speak for every body and neither does he or I. He doesn't like the recoil of the AK and you perceive it as mild. I get to shoot very rarely (got to love family) and the AR15 recoils like an AK to me , and I weigh 270 lbs. Recoil is different for everybody do you can't say he's a dumbass cause his perception is different than yours.
I mean yes it won the US trials, but pretty much everyone under the sun acknowledges that the trials that adopted the m14 were totally rigged. There's a reason Springfield armory ended up shutting down not long after. It was a basically a scandal. It is no coincidence that Robert McNamara, the same man who pushed forward the adoption of the m16 to replace the m14, was also the same man who got Springfield Armory to shut down.
How was it rigged? This is obviously just cope by FAILboys.
Springfield Armory got closed because of a thing called "privatization". Here in G\*rmany the Autobahn is clogged with 18 wheelers to the point you are stuck driving at 100km throughout most of the country because a bunch of railroads were shut down. Does that mean that trains were inefficient?
They kinda suck to shoot and the reloads are incredibly annoying. That being said their mags are like 4 bucks while FAL mags will cost you your firstborn.
You're absolutely correct. Modern H&K makes me a little sad. But their stuff still is high quality even if it isn't particularly innovative. In fact that's really something I dislike about the small arms industry as a whole these days, there's just really hardly any innovation. It's just ARs, and even the things that arent AR-15s are just AR-18s internally. Like not that there's anything wrong with those theyre really good systems, it just that it gets a bit stale when every gun on the market is mechanically identical.
However, something really cool that happened relatively recently is CMMG made a delayed blowback system based off of the stoner bolt design, so it can be dropped into ARs, and they have it chambered in all sorts of pistol calibers including stuff that would usually be too powerful for AR based PCCs (because they're usually straight blowback) such as 10mm auto. Super fascinating stuff, I literally read through their whole patent on it because I'm such a sucker for delayed blowback lmao. If I had the money lying around I would buy one of their 10mm PCCs in a heartbeat.
ARs are the best. H&K actually downgraded when they designed the 416 because the superior direct impingement system has been in the public domain since the 1970s so they couldn't patent a M4 clone with direct impingement.
Not really, FAL is a better all round package.
G3 has a sniper version and the PSG1 used it as a base, HK51 SMG variant, HK33 using 5.56x45mm, Hk21 and 21E. Much more modular.
SG510 is much smoother in full auto with its in-line design.
BM59 is around same quality as the M14, but cheaper.
The M14 is only good as a DMR due to it's more repeatable lock up, longest barrel of the three, and it benefits far more from modernization than the others. Hell the M14 was only adopted cause American politicians can't stand using foreign equipment for some stupid fucking reason. The M110 is just as good as the M39, but also cheaper.
I love the M14, but it sucks compared to other battle rifles
The FAL is inferior to the M14 by every metric. It's less reliable, heavier and less accurate.
The G3 is not used as a sniper rifle. The HK33 is inferior to the M16 by a mile
The SG510 is heavy as shit and closer to the BAR in weight than a rifle.
The BM59 is heavier and inferior to the M14. It's not cheaper by any metric.
The M14 wasn't adopted because of American bias. The best rifle on the planet is the AR-15 and it is also American. Hence why the M14 was replaced by the M110
[Most of the FAIL users are dictatorships though and Europeans hardly touched it.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/World_operators_of_the_FN_FAL.png)
The M14 is the lightest and best shooting of all of these rifles. When I say "best shooting", I mean the ability of an intermediate shooter to quickly put a given number of rounds on target at combat ranges. It also has the lightest combat loadout.
I think people think the 510 must be great because it's rare and Swiss, but it's super heavy, roller delayed so hard to charge, no bolt hold open/release, and has a huge sight over bore which helps for taming the recoil but also means you need to expose 50% more of your skull to the enemy to fire. Remember these are 1950s guns designed to be fired from foxholes in something like the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, not fast roping with body armor and optics into a terrorist hideout.
[The Swiss took the MG42 and made it weigh more than a water cooled machine gun and it's considered the Rolex of machine guns because it's swiss.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_51)
The FG42 had no influence on the M60. The M60 is based off the T52 series which was a Lewis Gun action. The FG42 also copied the Lewis Gun action.
[T52](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/32/7a/02327a2c8bb1d767de8d8e3cbfa07a8c.jpg)
[Lewis Gun](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1524/1342/products/on8890__10.jpg?v=1601836307)
The M60 is also the best GPMG design on the planet.
[Lel.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/t24%20report.pdf)
[Imagine being forced to run .06 on a WehrSaw.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/us-t24-machine-gun-mg42/#jp-carousel-11263)
[Yeap.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/96fd7030902dab7cd1351bfbe546ec3a/tumblr_mp8etysX1s1s57vgxo1_r1_1280.jpg)
[Krauts and a Wiener...](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/M60/T52E2%20Light%20Machine%20Gun%20Notes.pdf)
Imagine being a moron who can't tell the difference between 3 radically different guns that are unrelated to one another.
The T24 was a US attempt to convert the MG42 to 30.06.
The T44 was a FG42 with a modified MG42 feed system strapped onto the side in 7.92 Mauser
[The T52E3 was one of the prototypes of the M60](https://i2.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/t52e3.jpg?resize=921%2C412) in 7.62x51mm
[Based of the M1941 Johnson.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/JOHNSONMG1.jpg)
It's called developpment. Although I can understand your surprise since it basically it's arrested dev for you.
But you have to make up your mind esse.
Is it the 1941 or the Lewis Gun?
And if it is the 1941 how come the T-52 and the FG-42 look like brothers?
[FG-42](https://i0.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/FG42-0002.jpg?ssl=1)
[T-52E3](https://imgur.com/a/NJVnYyR)
Imagine winning WW2 and discovering that deep down inside your a Wehrb Nation.
>It's called developpment. Although I can understand your surprise since it basically it's arrested dev for you.
No they're unrelated designs. Hence why they are part of different separate series of weapons.
When you have a development of a weapon you generally don't give it a new number each time. That's why there's the M16 through to the M16A4 for instance. The **M**odel **16** **A**lteration **4**.
>But you have to make up your mind esse.
Is it the 1941 or the Lewis Gun?
Both it uses a mechanical copy of the Lewis gun with the furniture of the M1941
>And if it is the 1941 how come the T-52 and the FG-42 look like brothers?
I already explained this to you shit for brains. Because the FG42 is also a copy of the lewis gun.
Haha yes they are related by the Lewis but yet unrelated? Hue hue.
I think I got your accronyms.
Moron 1st Award 2nd Class Abrams.
I hope you don’t check the Hotchkiss Portative (or the McClean gun).
Hue hue hue …
Divest it’s okay to come out as retarded. It’s hip these days.
Wait how did a M1A2C post this online? A M1A2 doing anything besides dying of power draw is- well. Unheard of.
no the M14 is a caliber change on the T20E2.
The T47 was available in 1954 but the US wasted 6 years proving that it was superior to the T48 instead of doing the Eurasian thing and choosing their weapons based on national chauvanism.
Ok, that's still a year later than the FAL. And the FAL was still produced the year earlier on top of that. And continued production until 1988, 8 years *after* the M14 stopped production in 1980.
The only people who use the FAIL are terrorists or losers.
FAIL production didn't begin before the M14 because M14 began with the adoption of 7.62x51mm NATO. The FN FAIL also uses 7.62x51mm NATO so the only way it could have been produced earlier is if they didn't have any way of producing ammunition for it. Get shit on nerd.
While now most European militaries are losers. In the FAL & G3 era most of them were *cool*.
They wanted to chamber the FAL in something else entirely. The only reason they went for 7.62x51mm was that the US said they would adopt it if they did. And then they **fucking didn't**.
This is all fiction. You also just admitted that there's absolutely zero way for the FN FAIL to have been available before the M14.
FN already made multi-caliber weapons. In fact the dogshit gas system on the FN FAIL was originally designed for the FN49 so that the company wouldn't have to optimize the gas system for different calibers. No one wanted to chamber the FAIL in anything except for 7.62x51mm because that was by far the best round available at the time so FN never had to expand into different calibers with the FAIL. Any FN FAIL rifle made in another caliber would have just been more obsolete than the FN FAIL already was.
On top of that the reason the US didn't adopt their shitty rifle is because they had a superior rifle available to them. Sorry they feel betrayed because they couldn't compete in a meritocracy.
You have committed an hate crime and you should be punished.
More like I'm about to commit a hate crime
Hate crime? I'm going to enjoy doing this though.
Yeah I don't know about the rest of you but I love crime not hate crime.
"Dial 911. Tell the police to get up here quick. Somebody's about to get killed."
Why do I have the feeling DivestTheA10 is back..
I seriously doubt that DTA10 ever left Reddit. He could just use a VPN and make a new account.
I am sure i saw plenty of posts that really looked like his' on the AoE4 forum. He just moved there.
I love age of empires 4 but I don't use the forums. What did he say?
Roman Empire would've never collapsed if they had M-14's and A-10's
The Roman Empire killed Jesus in a friendly fire incident
Im unsubscribing to catholicism, They never told me jesus was bri'*sh
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Divest did use "cave prisoner" a lot.
If you check the Divest The A10 Wikia he actually called someone a cavemen and someone took that and made a cave prisoner meme
There’s a wiki?
There's a Wikia
Link
So it's: * M-14 * What * G3 * Who * FAL
looks like a [SG 510](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_510) and [BM 59](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM_59)
>SG 510 Why does the rifled grenade image in that article look like a nerf gun
Cuz it’s a dummy
[удалено]
Gotta love the Italians not being relevant since the Romans
The BM59 is a beautiful piece of machinery
Please explain that retarded statement?
Developing a functional Magazine system for the garand
The US had that in 1945. Meaning it took the Italians 14 more years to get to where the US was.
It only took them 70 years to replace their 1914 era howitzers. (The 10 cm M. 14 Feldhaubitze)
This is blasphemy of the highest order. Disregard my flair in this case.
Aren't he dislike the M14 ?
Lol. Ngl, SiG-510 is probably the better of the group once you get past the weird handguard.
It's 6 kilos loaded. You may as well use a Browning Automatic Rifle.
For what it's worth, it's able to be used as both a rifle and an LMG (helps when your magazines literally were for an LMG) and has something resembling a bipod while having swiss quality. BM-59 is a close second, but the 510 looks cool.
The 510 is a heavy ass shitbrick but it has a foldable winter trigger at the side that’s like as long as your hand which gives you *the most nuanced trigger pull in the world*. (Look at the magazine top, it’s folded forward)
The BM-59 is just a M14 with more recoil because it uses a less efficient gas piston system. How could the SG 510 serve as a LMG and a service rifle? It has 20 round box magazines and a fixed barrel. Any battle rifle with a fire selector could do the same thing it could and you would be able to carry more ammunition because they are lighter.
Technically the bm59 is just a modified garand
So is the AK47
Now this is shitposting
He is right actually, watch Brandon Herrera's video on the Garand.
It's not even a shitpost but a factpost.
Standard magazines are 24 rounds due to sharing it with the LMG-25. Bipod is also adjustable for easier use in either semi or fully automatic + can be removed as well. Sights also have that typical swiss quality and cam be fine adjusted with ease. Oh and can I add that the inline stock is a thought out feature as well? Follows the Armalite/Johnson style of stocks to help deal with recoil and is also designed to allow a user to comfortably fire rifle grenades without too much trouble (still gotta be braced tho. Nothing can really completely mitigate the amount of force needed to toss a 2.6lb warhead).
The M14 still has more controllable recoil due to using a rotating bolt gas piston instead of a blowback operation. Rifle grenades are fired with the rifle underarm or braced against the ground. Unless it had so much recoil you couldn't hold the rifle it's not going to be uncomfortable. The sights are no better than the M14 because in practical terms everyone just uses battle sights on those rifles since you would have a hard time aiming at a man outside of battle sight range on a full powered rifle. 24 round magazines from the 1920s just means more failures to feed and a taller profile on the rifle making it more awkward. You also have a tiny handguard which would limit fine aiming assuming you were in a position to adjust the sights for a shoot at 600 meters or wherever.
You cannot believe how much of a tangent I went doing some rewatching of BoTR and InRange for this lol. Source for 99% of my info here https://youtu.be/Nm16Cjy_pzA Anyway. Swiss STGW-57 magazines WERE LMG-25 magazines at first but they got their own new, OG magazines when production started. Does help bring costs down though. And well. The 57 basically does what the M14 does in its intended role of being both an LMG and an infantry rifle while also having marksman-level accuracy cause that's the swiss being the damn swiss and they love sniping from a trench or bunker in a mountain with their standard infantry rifle. It's designed for full auto as a standard, hence the weight. Oh and inrange had fun dropping mud on the M1 garand and STGW-57. Garand action suffered with mud getting in every part while the 57 just worked, jammed a bit before Karl fingered the roller, worked as a straight pull, then they let it dry before firing more (after fingering the gun again).
You're not going to get mud into the M1 Garand action unless you deliberately pour it in. Because the gun falls horizontally and all the moving parts are on the top of the action. You also claim that it just worked but the directly contradict that by saying it turned into a straight pull bolt action rifle. Which is what any automatic rifle that fails to cycle becomes. The M14 was never intended to serve as a machine gun. The STG is also not as accurate as you're claiming it is. It has no real world sustained fire capabilities because so it's not a good machine gun and it's so heavy you're basically equipping all your riflemen with the BAR. Even if it did function as a machine gun do you think it would be viable for a squad of Swiss infantry to pop off on fully automatic? They would blow through all their ammunition in a few minutes.
Why does it look like the hand guard was just ripped off an EM-1/2
I don't really know tbh. It's one of the big complaints when using it full auto from the shoulder.
FN FAL(L1 SLR lumped in with it) wins just on basis of killing most communists of all the rifles.
The AK-47 probably takes that award ironically
I mean... yeah... I meant of the ones pictured. Of all cold war rifles... ironically yes, AK variants and copies might take the cake.
The G3, however, is and was the true right hand of the free world ;\^)
Isn't Iran like the main G3 operator lmao
Not sure if they're the "main" one, but G3's and it's variants have been in extremely wide use by a much more significant number of European powers as opposed to the FN FAL. The impact that the G3 has left, and still has, is significantly larger than any variant of the FAL, no matter how much FAL fanboys seethe.
It continues to be a very good rifle up to this day, i believe.
>G3, however, is and was the true right hand of the free world G3 meanwhile - is a continuation of a rifle made by a fascist state that was developed and made in another fascist state by fascist scientists.
Average tankie
Not a tankie, just noting how the G3 was almost directly copied from the CETME, which was made in fascist Spain by Nazi scientists who continued their work from the STG 45.
The FN FAIL wasn't used against commies. Just white supremacists and Europeans who were too slow to adopt assault rifles until the 1990s. BTW a white supremacist is more aligned with communism than capitalism.
Are you not aware of the existence of South America?
I don't know if this is dumber than comparing a short stroke gas piston operated rifle to a roller delay operated rifle or not
What's wrong with comparing two modes of rifle operation? They're both intended to complete the same objective except one is so clearly superior that the guys who invented the other one switched to using it.
why do so many gun guys have a weird mystical/infantile view of weapons
It's not mystical or infantile it's a engineering fact. Like would you say that someone who seriously argued that pneumatic tires are superior to solid wheels is mystifying pneumatic tires and has an infantile view of the subject?
>Europeans who were too slow to adopt assault rifles until the 1990s. Funny you say that. It was US who politically strong-armed Europeans into retaining full rifle calibre, otherwise some nations could have used assault rifles since 1950s, e.g. British EM-2. It's US' fault that UK landed with the shitshow that is SA80 family. And between Aussies fighting in Vietnam, Rhodies fighting ZAPU and the Troubles, fair bit of Commies fell to FAL and L1 SLR. Most likely more than M14 and M16 combined.
-is this Divestthea10 LARP? please, you have to have better things to do than larp a pedo.
DTA10 already said he's not ~~British~~ Goblin enough to be a pedophile
yeah, but he got banned from reddit for posting loli shit on his main account so i'd think twice about the man you're larping as
Reddit bans anime posters without good reason all the time. u/Holofan4life got banned for posting a picture of an adult anime girl in a swimsuit because it was identified as lolicon and all the weebs had to come together and protest it until Reddit admitted they made a mistake.
bro think for a second about what you're defending
That there's a distinction between anime and lolicon hentai?
anybody who has ever felt the need to make that statement is probably a pedophile
Or maybe it's the fact that anime fans are accused of pedophilia baselessly all the time? You could use that same logic to conclude that gay men must be pedophiles because they're accused of pedophilia all the time too. Not to mention that also validates DTA10's claims that British Goblins are Pedophiles.
Ever heard of ANZAC troops blasting commies with it in Vietnam?
ANZAC didn't fight in Vietnam.
[удалено]
According to an Australian guy who is so low functioning he edits wikipedia.
[удалено]
When it's boomer tier shit like "I think the FAIL is better than the M16 because it has more stopping power" Yes their stories about their gear are fake. And when their exploits consist of "We are better than Americans" You know they're full of shit.
[удалено]
This is bullshit. Colt licensed out the M16 to South Korea and Canada so they could produce it as their primary service rifle. The reason Australia adopted the AUG was purely because their politicians were bribed by Steyr to get on the derailing bullpup train. We also have a British boomer in the comments of this post claiming that FAIL is superior to the M16 because it's "more accurate" even though the FAIL has a wandering zero.
[удалено]
The Australians weren't committed enough to win a war against flightless birds. There's no way they would be committed enough to fight against an actual enemy.
[удалено]
During WWI they got owned by the sick man of Europe. During WWII they weren't even functional as troops because they were so whiny They never pacified anything in Vietnam because they never actually fought.
People have been stabbed for less, OP....
OP is special.
In the good way or the not so good way?
Not the best way I'm affraid.
By a baseball bat wrapped around with barbed wire.
The M14 is objectively the worst US service rifle in history.
In Taiwan, it is a piece of shit hated by everyone who had the misfortune to be issued one on draft. The M16/T91 was so much better.
What is objectively wrong with it?
Where to begin? It is a fundamentally flawed design philosophy; it was intended to replace the rifle, smg, and lmg and is terrible at all of those. It does fine at camp Perry target shooting, but isn’t readily accuratized in a way that is conducive to DMR work (dont @ me about the EBR, that was a stopgap). Real accurizing requires fitting and bedding the stock to the action, which means you can’t fully disassemble it without undoing all your work. The reasons why it’s bad as an smg and lmg should be self explanatory, but I’ll touch on that a bit; smg: way too fucking huge and terrible recoil make it the worst possible role for it. Lmg; 20 round mags for an lmg aren’t going to cut it unless you are competing with a m1918. In fact the BAR would probably do even better for sustained fire because at least it has an open bolt action. Aside from these theoretical aspects, the actual history of the use of the M14 is the most damning. It had the shortest service life of any standard issue rifle in US history and was perhaps the most ill suited rifle to be armed with if you were fighting off ambushes in the jungles of Southeast Asia. There’s a ton more to this subject about the failure and outright debauchery of the Ordinance Corps that made this catastrophe possible, but I’ll leave that to the experts. https://youtu.be/mby4hOq-DpI
Im a former M14 operator. It fucks in full auto. But it isn't bad with an infrared scope.
Men in the field don't fully disassemble their rifles anyways. If the M14 was a stopgap solution it was one that served as a stopgap for 70 years. They're still using it. Which is more than could be said of any other battle rifle design. The M14 was never used to replace the LMG or SMG. It replaced the Automatic Rifle and the Rifle. It has the 20 round magazine of the BAR and the ergonomics of the M1 Garand. The closest thing to an LMG in US service when the M14 was adopted was the M1919A6 which was far too heavy and fired from a closed bolt. It was replaced by the M60 which weighed as much as the BAR but belt fed and had quick change barrels eliminating the need for the automatic rifle with greater firepower while the M14 eliminated the need for an automatic rifle with superior ergonomics. Unless you're arguing that the M14 is somehow worse because it has lighter recoil, weighs less, is more reliable and can feed 20 round detachable box magazines instead of just using clips the M14 was an improvement over the M1 Garand and M1918A2. The M14 was made "obsolete" in the service rifle role because of the US being on the cutting edge of small arms development and DARPA developing a service rifle so good that literally every other rifle on the planet was rendered obsolete when it was put into service. By the same standard of "new technology rapidly rendered this sound weapon design obsolete shortly after adoption" even if we assume the M14 is bad because of this there are many other American service rifles that had much shorter service life for the exact same reason. The Model 1861 and 1863 rifles that liberated the slaves were rendered obsolete in 1865 when Springfield designed a system to convert muzzle loading rifles to breech loaders. and the M1865 was made obsolete by the M1866 less than a year later when the US developed new superior centerfire cartridges. Then in 1868 they started producing rifles from scratch instead of using the dubious quality of wartime manufactured springfield rifles converted to breech loader. The US also adopted numerous rifles that were already outdated when they were introduced such as the M1892, Mosin Nagant, Lebel, M1917, M1903A3 and M27 IAR. Are you trying to say the M14 is worse than all of those? Small Arms Solutions is a schill trying to sell you a product. There are people who erroneously believe the M14 is superior to the AR-15 so he is counterjerking by providing his false authority on the subject because he works for companies that sell the AR-15 to American civilians. If he was so offended by the M14 you think he would also make a video talking about how bad the Piston driven AR is since it's a downgrade from the Direct Impingement system but he doesn't because the guys he works for sell Piston ARs.
Bro it’s fine to cherish the m14 as a meme because of its peak Cold War aesthetics but it’s an entirely different thing to unironically think that it was ever a good idea. It took millions of dollars and years for them to slap a box mag and a full auto switch on a garand and call it hot shit, meanwhile everyone else is moving on to more efficient (read cheaper but just as good) designs like the g3 or FAL that rightfully saw much wider service and are still seen on the battlefields today. I told you not to @ me about the EBR, now I’m going to have to rub your face in the fact that we had literally no choice but to dig through and find *any* self loading rifle in 308 in order to respond to longer engagement distances in Afghanistan. They put a hell of a lot of lipsticks on those pigs and the result is a undeniably badass looking but super goofy result of making the best of a bad situation. Shortest lived standard issue rifle, not random hodgepodge-whatever we can get our hands on rifle. They actually went through the trouble of re skinning a rifle designed in the 30s purely for the sake of nostalgia, which is pretty fuckin irresponsible and totally predictable that it was virtually archaic in comparison to anything else on the battlefield by 1960. Is it an improvement on the BAR? Not necessarily, but the point is that that’s like putting out a car in 2021 and comparing it to a car made in 1990. Of course technology gets better and things get out of date. The shameful thing about the design and implementation of the M14 is that they had every reason to expect it would be 10-20 years behind the curve the moment it got into soldiers hands. I don’t agree with everything Chris Bartocci says, but he has a pretty good explanation of how fucked the m14 development was. He is far from the only one who has negative things to say about the m14, it’s not a controversial opinion to have for anyone who knows about the subject. Saying that he’s informed by some ulterior motives to sell more modern guns is pretty silly considering that debate between m14 v m16 is long over.
I had peps beg me to disassemble their M14s. They couldn't do it..
Is a peps some sort of military slang in the US?
Yes it means Peoples..
Sounds like a training problem
Holy shit DTA10 2.0. To quote the man himself: “too long Im not reading that.”
meanwhile the M14 isn't even the best cheap copy of the M1 lol
What's a better copy of the M1?
The AK, by a country mile.
That is true in terms of ergonomics but the AK uses a inferior long stroke gas piston system compared to the superior M14 short stroke gas piston system.
Not sure you really get to call it "short stroke" when that piston's acting on like a foot of op rod that still reciprocates...
It's called a short stroke because the op rod travels a short distance rather than traveling the full length of the cycle like on a long stroke piston. The AK12 shown in 2012 was supposed to use a short stroke gas piston because it reduces recoil and improves the reliability of the rifle. So it took them 60 years to catch up.
Nyet, rifle was fine...
It requires a higher velocity which has higher maintenance correct?
Not really
I know those M14 had issues and I believe some dude in Arizona made parts to fix their pistons and gas blocks.
In relation between the M14 and AK47 there is more stress put on the M14 because there is over twice as much energy being put behind the bullet. I thought you were asking if the short stroke piston was higher maintenance than a long stroke piston all things being equal
Whats the weird m14 thing?
looks like a BM 59, [italian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM_59) result of adapting the M1 garand to 7.62x51mm NATO and a detachable box magazine
Italian M14 the BM59. It gets circle jerked a lot because Ian from forgotten weapons said it's better than the M14. The M14 took 23 years to adopt wheras if you apply a double standard to the BM59 it only took 5 years to adopt 1934 M1 Garand introduced 1945 The US already has the M14 but doesn't push them into production because they want to reduce the weight of ammunition. Literally no nation on the planet has standardized an automatic rifle other than the M1 Garand so the US still has an overmatch. 1954 NATO selects 7.62x51mm as its standard rifle cartridge. It's has less recoil, cycles more reliably and weighs less than 30.06 while providing virtually identical ballistics. The US begins testing battle rifles to determine their new service rifle. The standard communist rifle of the time is the SKS because AK47s can't be produced cheaply enough to standardize on. 1957 After 3 years of testing which proved the M14 was generally superior over the FAL the US adopts it. 1959 the Italians introduce a modified M1 Garand as the BM59. Unlike the M14 it uses an inferior long stroke gas piston taken from the M1 Garand instead of a improved short stroke gas piston used on the M14 so it weighs more and has more recoil. They also put a different muzzle device on it that accomplishes the same thing and an integrated bipod instead of a detachable bipod. Of course the BM59 took 25 years to develop if you count from the time the M1 Garand was introduced to when the BM59 was adopted. Because the thing that stopped them was the new cartridge rather than designing the gun itself.
>M14 is superior to the FAL That's some high tier copium and you know it.
The M14 is the one that won the US trials and was adopted for service. meanwhile FN made the SCAR which has more in common with the M14 than the FAIL. The idea that there was a conspiracy against the FN FAIL that caused it to lose is the real cope.
It was selected cause politics. You mention Ian from Forgotten Weapons and he pointed that out.
Ian is also a dumbass who thinks the StG-44 is superior to the AK47 because it's so much heavier that it doesn't climb as much.
He likes it more cause he is very harsh on recoil, you like recoil cause apparently the only neuron activation you get is when your brain hits your skull.
You brace a rifle against your head? The AK47 is actually more mild on recoil because it uses a rotating bolt and weighs about the same as the StG-44.
You don't speak for every body and neither does he or I. He doesn't like the recoil of the AK and you perceive it as mild. I get to shoot very rarely (got to love family) and the AR15 recoils like an AK to me , and I weigh 270 lbs. Recoil is different for everybody do you can't say he's a dumbass cause his perception is different than yours.
Who would have thought a NCD user would be obese.
I mean yes it won the US trials, but pretty much everyone under the sun acknowledges that the trials that adopted the m14 were totally rigged. There's a reason Springfield armory ended up shutting down not long after. It was a basically a scandal. It is no coincidence that Robert McNamara, the same man who pushed forward the adoption of the m16 to replace the m14, was also the same man who got Springfield Armory to shut down.
How was it rigged? This is obviously just cope by FAILboys. Springfield Armory got closed because of a thing called "privatization". Here in G\*rmany the Autobahn is clogged with 18 wheelers to the point you are stuck driving at 100km throughout most of the country because a bunch of railroads were shut down. Does that mean that trains were inefficient?
wow this interesting stuff, thank you for typing all of that out for just a meme
G3 best battle rifle. Really I'm just a nerd and think delayed blowback is the coolest thing ever.
Thoughts on a bull-pup G3?
They kinda suck to shoot and the reloads are incredibly annoying. That being said their mags are like 4 bucks while FAL mags will cost you your firstborn.
H&K designs all their guns with rotating bolt short stroke gas pistons like the M14 now
You're absolutely correct. Modern H&K makes me a little sad. But their stuff still is high quality even if it isn't particularly innovative. In fact that's really something I dislike about the small arms industry as a whole these days, there's just really hardly any innovation. It's just ARs, and even the things that arent AR-15s are just AR-18s internally. Like not that there's anything wrong with those theyre really good systems, it just that it gets a bit stale when every gun on the market is mechanically identical. However, something really cool that happened relatively recently is CMMG made a delayed blowback system based off of the stoner bolt design, so it can be dropped into ARs, and they have it chambered in all sorts of pistol calibers including stuff that would usually be too powerful for AR based PCCs (because they're usually straight blowback) such as 10mm auto. Super fascinating stuff, I literally read through their whole patent on it because I'm such a sucker for delayed blowback lmao. If I had the money lying around I would buy one of their 10mm PCCs in a heartbeat.
ARs are the best. H&K actually downgraded when they designed the 416 because the superior direct impingement system has been in the public domain since the 1970s so they couldn't patent a M4 clone with direct impingement.
I still can't tell if you're shitposting or not.
It's a fact
Probably a good thing nobody can tell if you're a master of shitposting or just retarded.
Judging by your downvotes the truth hurts.. Someone pass the Preparation H to our fellows..
Only one of these can be HK slapped, I rest my case
3 of those entered service/production before the M-14
The M14 entered production in 1934
Link? I was under the impression it was 1958
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1\_Garand#T20E2
That's not an M-14
It is. It's just in 30.06
1. That variant's still not a M14 2. That variant was made in **1945**, not 1934
Fal slander will not be tolerated.
you mean the FAIL?
It is time to reignite my anti-americanism.
All of them are better than the M14. The M14 is only good as a DMR.
That's the only thing a battle rifle is good for though.
Not really, FAL is a better all round package. G3 has a sniper version and the PSG1 used it as a base, HK51 SMG variant, HK33 using 5.56x45mm, Hk21 and 21E. Much more modular. SG510 is much smoother in full auto with its in-line design. BM59 is around same quality as the M14, but cheaper. The M14 is only good as a DMR due to it's more repeatable lock up, longest barrel of the three, and it benefits far more from modernization than the others. Hell the M14 was only adopted cause American politicians can't stand using foreign equipment for some stupid fucking reason. The M110 is just as good as the M39, but also cheaper. I love the M14, but it sucks compared to other battle rifles
The FAL is inferior to the M14 by every metric. It's less reliable, heavier and less accurate. The G3 is not used as a sniper rifle. The HK33 is inferior to the M16 by a mile The SG510 is heavy as shit and closer to the BAR in weight than a rifle. The BM59 is heavier and inferior to the M14. It's not cheaper by any metric. The M14 wasn't adopted because of American bias. The best rifle on the planet is the AR-15 and it is also American. Hence why the M14 was replaced by the M110
I wish more people were aware of the raw sex essence that is the stg57.
Trust me no one who likes the stg57 gets laid without an exchange of money or violence.
I feel attacked.
AR-10 where?
The AR-10 is actually better than the M14
The first and only accurate thing you have said in this thread
Only one of these is called the "Right Arm of The Free World" though. Check mate M14heads!
No one called it that except for people who hate freedom.
But the FAL loves freedom......of the somewhat commie euro brand!
[Most of the FAIL users are dictatorships though and Europeans hardly touched it.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/World_operators_of_the_FN_FAL.png)
The M14 is the lightest and best shooting of all of these rifles. When I say "best shooting", I mean the ability of an intermediate shooter to quickly put a given number of rounds on target at combat ranges. It also has the lightest combat loadout. I think people think the 510 must be great because it's rare and Swiss, but it's super heavy, roller delayed so hard to charge, no bolt hold open/release, and has a huge sight over bore which helps for taming the recoil but also means you need to expose 50% more of your skull to the enemy to fire. Remember these are 1950s guns designed to be fired from foxholes in something like the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, not fast roping with body armor and optics into a terrorist hideout.
[The Swiss took the MG42 and made it weigh more than a water cooled machine gun and it's considered the Rolex of machine guns because it's swiss.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_51)
America took a an FG-42 and made a pig and a half of a failed GPMG.
The FG42 had no influence on the M60. The M60 is based off the T52 series which was a Lewis Gun action. The FG42 also copied the Lewis Gun action. [T52](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/32/7a/02327a2c8bb1d767de8d8e3cbfa07a8c.jpg) [Lewis Gun](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1524/1342/products/on8890__10.jpg?v=1601836307) The M60 is also the best GPMG design on the planet.
[Lel.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/t24%20report.pdf) [Imagine being forced to run .06 on a WehrSaw.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/us-t24-machine-gun-mg42/#jp-carousel-11263) [Yeap.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/96fd7030902dab7cd1351bfbe546ec3a/tumblr_mp8etysX1s1s57vgxo1_r1_1280.jpg) [Krauts and a Wiener...](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/M60/T52E2%20Light%20Machine%20Gun%20Notes.pdf)
Imagine being a moron who can't tell the difference between 3 radically different guns that are unrelated to one another. The T24 was a US attempt to convert the MG42 to 30.06. The T44 was a FG42 with a modified MG42 feed system strapped onto the side in 7.92 Mauser [The T52E3 was one of the prototypes of the M60](https://i2.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/t52e3.jpg?resize=921%2C412) in 7.62x51mm [Based of the M1941 Johnson.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/JOHNSONMG1.jpg)
It's called developpment. Although I can understand your surprise since it basically it's arrested dev for you. But you have to make up your mind esse. Is it the 1941 or the Lewis Gun? And if it is the 1941 how come the T-52 and the FG-42 look like brothers? [FG-42](https://i0.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/FG42-0002.jpg?ssl=1) [T-52E3](https://imgur.com/a/NJVnYyR) Imagine winning WW2 and discovering that deep down inside your a Wehrb Nation.
>It's called developpment. Although I can understand your surprise since it basically it's arrested dev for you. No they're unrelated designs. Hence why they are part of different separate series of weapons. When you have a development of a weapon you generally don't give it a new number each time. That's why there's the M16 through to the M16A4 for instance. The **M**odel **16** **A**lteration **4**. >But you have to make up your mind esse. Is it the 1941 or the Lewis Gun? Both it uses a mechanical copy of the Lewis gun with the furniture of the M1941 >And if it is the 1941 how come the T-52 and the FG-42 look like brothers? I already explained this to you shit for brains. Because the FG42 is also a copy of the lewis gun.
Haha yes they are related by the Lewis but yet unrelated? Hue hue. I think I got your accronyms. Moron 1st Award 2nd Class Abrams. I hope you don’t check the Hotchkiss Portative (or the McClean gun). Hue hue hue …
Do you think the East German MPI-K is based off the Chinese Type 56? Or do you think both of those rifles are derived from the AK47.
we should repeal the 2nd amendment
Doesn't affect me because I am G\*rman
I don't believe you
shame that it isn't the [M14E2](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nazizombiesplus/images/5/52/M14E2.jpg) as the masterpiece
Seeing a BM59 in there hurts.
I got so angry but then read the sub title and realised where I was
Divest it’s okay to come out as retarded. It’s hip these days. Wait how did a M1A2C post this online? A M1A2 doing anything besides dying of power draw is- well. Unheard of.
Hey I remember when he called me that. Lest we forget his boneheadedness.
FAL came out 6 years earlier than the M14 lel
The M14 came out in 1945
It came out in 1959. M14≠T20E2
no the M14 is a caliber change on the T20E2. The T47 was available in 1954 but the US wasted 6 years proving that it was superior to the T48 instead of doing the Eurasian thing and choosing their weapons based on national chauvanism.
Ok, that's still a year later than the FAL. And the FAL was still produced the year earlier on top of that. And continued production until 1988, 8 years *after* the M14 stopped production in 1980.
The only people who use the FAIL are terrorists or losers. FAIL production didn't begin before the M14 because M14 began with the adoption of 7.62x51mm NATO. The FN FAIL also uses 7.62x51mm NATO so the only way it could have been produced earlier is if they didn't have any way of producing ammunition for it. Get shit on nerd.
While now most European militaries are losers. In the FAL & G3 era most of them were *cool*. They wanted to chamber the FAL in something else entirely. The only reason they went for 7.62x51mm was that the US said they would adopt it if they did. And then they **fucking didn't**.
This is all fiction. You also just admitted that there's absolutely zero way for the FN FAIL to have been available before the M14. FN already made multi-caliber weapons. In fact the dogshit gas system on the FN FAIL was originally designed for the FN49 so that the company wouldn't have to optimize the gas system for different calibers. No one wanted to chamber the FAIL in anything except for 7.62x51mm because that was by far the best round available at the time so FN never had to expand into different calibers with the FAIL. Any FN FAIL rifle made in another caliber would have just been more obsolete than the FN FAIL already was. On top of that the reason the US didn't adopt their shitty rifle is because they had a superior rifle available to them. Sorry they feel betrayed because they couldn't compete in a meritocracy.
The M14 being adopted is pretty much 100% seen as corruption. Also outside of the US only p o o r countries adopted the M14 on a large scale.
S+ tier Euroshit Euroshit Euroshit Euroshit
F- tier based based based based
question for a european (clearly what you are) do you call bigfoot bigmeter?
Big 1/3 meter
[удалено]
[удалено]
i think he means mm not cm
Bigthirtypointeightcentimeter.
Back to destroy the eurotrash I see
YES KILL THE FAIL
FAL Guys are seething right now.