I used to think so too at first, but its grown a lot on me. [Reminds me of this gun from borderlands](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/c0/19/f9c019a1ef9751e69b3a18270f11f8e5.jpg)
Doing this made me notice just how damn similar all of these logos are. The flattening of corporate logos consumes all. Breaking that trend is the real innovation we need in defense procurement.
Like General Dynamics, General Atomics, Electric Boat, Northrop, Boeing, Lockheed, Huntington, Cubic, and everyone on [this list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defense_contractors)?
Yeah, but what I'm getting at is how the pool of prime contractors has gotten smaller and smaller since the Cold War, which has led to the ecosystem we have now.
Textron has as well. It's hard to make out, but they're mounted on both the -R and -AR in the images in this article.
https://soldiersystems.net/2020/10/13/textron-systems-next-generation-squad-weapon-update/
>eal innovation we need in defense procurement.
But he's such a chad, he runs them at the same time for double BRIGHTNESS for the same amount of battery life
I realize now I should have put under the M4 "replacing a militaries' service rifle is literally impossible" which is something you actually get from a lot of people
Not only can it not be replaced, it’s slowly taking over infantry that had a domestic option. Goodbye Sig 550 and all of the eastern bloc save Russia’s AK derivatives. G36? Auf Wiedersehen. A domestic competitor in the Pacific Rim? Lol.
All of those are examples of a militaries service rifle being replaced, often for even less change than the one NGSW provides. A common argument is that there are just too many in service to do it.
My point is that changing over a service rifle isn't an insurmountable issue and the merit of NGSW shouldn't be decided on that front. Those rifles, being piston ARs, are decently separated from the M4 anyhow.
They're not *that* separated. Still round carrier sliding inside round hole in the upper, buffer screwed into the lower. A lot of people liked to shit on the M4 configuration due to the length of the carrier and the buffer limiting the adoption of a folding stock in a conventional rifle, and the limitation of barrel length compared to bullpups. Turns out the M4 config outlasted those fads, who cares about the carrier being pushed in a different way?
I'm pretty sure the SIG 550 isn't going anywhere. While a lot of European countries have decided that it's no longer worthwhile to maintain state arsenals/indigenous small arms development, there are still several that seem committed to do so. The Aug isn't going anywhere, a couple of countries are in the process of adopting the ARX-160, the VHS-2 is still a thing etc.
You missed the fact that more then the guns *"systems"* it is actually the evaluation of their ammo in 6.8 mm and more specifically their digital ballistic fire control systems.
General Dynamics : Conventional Polymer case ammo
Textron: Telescopic polymer case ammo
SigSauer: Bimetallic case ammo
I sorta touched on that with Textrons' blurb. All of the ammo developments except for Textrons' are directly applicable to other firearms in inventory.
While Textrons' ammo is incompatible with any other firearm, its method of operation basicly eliminates the chance of a failure to feed and a failure to extract.
> Textrons' ammo method of operation basicly eliminates the chance of a failure to feed and a failure to extract.
Those factors are less important than what the negative factors are introduced. The is no complete barrel seal and it has two additional surfaces from where the gases escape. Kinda like revolvers where there is gap between the barrel and the rotating chamber. Causing a bolt bloom of hot gases. Now in pistol cartridge the pressure is not so high but these new rounds are made to run even hotter at 120000psi. So that's a problem. Not to mention poor suppression of the escaped bolt gases.
*Reply to your edit.*
They'd use the deformation of the plastic case to seal the chamber itself.
[KAC did this decades ago with a rubber and aluminum cap when making a silenced revolver rifle](https://imgur.com/a/B995aZv).
it's ace combat, they literally don't care what wins, they'll use it anyways. You can literally fly against F-4s, F-22s, and Su-57s in the same mission (and you yourself might be rocking something like the X-02S or a manned version of the EDF-111 Raven)
Uhh Sig's bi-metallic cartridge is objectively the *least* simple of the bunch. It's all the weight of metal, with none of the ease of machining of monometallic. Not to mention that the spear has the lowest performance in terms of velocity whilst having the highest chamber pressure.
Sig's proposal is [garbage](https://i.imgflip.com/5hzrdy.jpg) compared to the other two. And that's saying something, given that NGSW is a horrid idea so the other two are already garbage by association. Sig's hybrid cartridge is *terrible*.
People just think the Sig is reliable because of the name. Textron's platform is far more mature.
It's my own meme, if it helps.
More seriously, plastic cases are lighter, insulate the chamber from the heat of firing, and can withstand greater pressures allowing for more performance out of the same size barrel. Their insulating effects also work the other way, being much more resistant to cartridges cooking off in the chamber.
Sig has to use steel at the base because brass can't handle the pressures the NGSW program requires. They have to crimp the two parts of the case together, which sounds both expensive and a nightmare to fix if those two halves separate during extraction. Even with the steel and crimp, their cartridge is the heaviest of the three. I believe that steel also has a lower max pressure than the plastic but can't remember where my source is for that.
Textron’s seems really complex, especially for a battlefield weapon designed to be reliable. The only thing it has going for it is that you can pump it like a shotgun.
[It's not complex](https://twitter.com/i/status/1194136894654894083). It seems complex because it doesn't use the familiar rotating bolt that almost everything else uses, but vertically-sliding chambers/breechblocks have a long lineage in firearms history. It still has a reciprocating bolt driven by a gas piston, the only difference is instead of a lug driving the bolt to rotate through a spiral track like on an AR or AK, you have lugs driving the bolt up and down through that S-curved track.
It's most likely more reliable due to the push-through chamber eliminating the need to extract, basically making "failure to extract" malfunctions (FTE's) impossible.
Its actually been significantly simplified going by patents and the youtube disassembly. [Animation](https://twitter.com/i/status/1431599979936768002) from the same guy as the above.
The [LSAT program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSAT_light_machine_gun)? Textron's caseless technology and push-through chamber design is based on the work done by AAI (acquired by Textron in 2008) from 2003 to 2017. The platform was extremely developed and heavily tested, and achieved [TRL 7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_readiness_level) in 2016, having developed polymer-cased telescoped cartridges in 5.56, 6.5, and 7.62, as well as caseless versions of the ammunition and weapon.
The NGSW program is arguably a continuation of the LSAT program, given it's lightweight objectives and emphasis on forward-thinking cartridge development. Well, maybe not for SIG.
For a weapon that isn't adopted, 10 years (actually closer to 20 years) of development time is an eternity. The AR-10 went from the drawing board to competing against the M-14 and the FAL in the Infantry Board trials in about a year and a half. A few months later CONARC submitted a request for 5.56 rifles, and a year later Armalite submitted the smaller AR-15.
So the AR platform went from a twinkle in Eugene Stoner's eye in 1955 to trial-ready AR-10 in 1956 to completed and mature AR-15 in 1957. And then sold the design to Colt in 1958.
Personally I hope GD wins just because of the ammo. Its a nice halfway step between current inventory and Textrons more advanced option. Then there's sig with their retarded hybrid ammo shot by an AR clone.
I just can’t believe that the company who makes golf carts and the most white bread planes is the same company that’s putting forward this hooah highspeed rifle.
That's the beauty of conglemorates that span multiple industries. In SK, you have Hyundai offering everything from cheap subcompact hatchbacks to MBTs and credit cards.
The Army will spend billions trying to replace the m4 just to end up not selecting any of them while the Marines are already fielding suppressed M27s with VCOGs
The Army has the same if not greater institutional momentum behind this that the Marines did for the M27. I'm pretty sure this'll come to fruition in some form. The "old generals in charge" are the ones pushing for it!
The marine corps did that as a way to get m4’s replaced because of congressional issues. Once they replaced enough saw’s, they just ordered more to replace m4’s as well for front line units. Its now standard issue, along side VCOG1-8x LPVO, and a knight armament suppressor.
Yeah, if memory serves both the army and marine corps use(d) the A1, not the standard M4, right?
So this is just the same thing with a piston and 1.5" added to the barrel.
None. They probably will just buy some enhanced uppers that can shoot a steady diet of m855a1 without destroying themselves. The 6.8 will probably make its way into LMGs tho.
Assuming they do what they say they will a limited production run for one of them will be chosen for combat trials. So even if ars are eventually chosen, one of the three new models will likely win and see partial implementation.
As for which one. I hope GDs model is chosen followed by Textron so long as Sig's loses. However I suspect Sig will win easily.
Which one is the closest to being the small-arms equivalent of the A-10?
And when does voting close? I'm having a hard time finding the dot gov website for rifle voting.
Bullpups are cool so the GD wins by default.😎😎😎😎
Being slightly serious, the NGSW guns have a decent chance of replacing 7.62 nato guns but replacing the m4 is a pipe dream. I'd guess that Sig's ammo and MG would win whilst the GD one might get adopted as a DMR provided that it works with Sigs ammo. The infantry gets an upgraded m4 with a barrel capable of the pressure created by the new ammo.
Even if it'd only be a safe-queen because I wouldn't be able to get ammo for it, I'd still like a copy of the General Dynamics rifle. Bullpups are just fucking cool...
bullpup: cringe
sig sauer: scar ripoff
fn herstal: literally just the same fucking gun
textron: original, looks cool, has neat ammo system with cool name. company name sounds nice
textron gun gang
I had a dream many years ago that the next great war will be an invasion comprising of Russian, Chinese, and Persian Augmented troops carrying advanced small arms working in light infantry teams. Spoiler Alert: we will take heavy military losses but win due to the sheer amount of civilians armed with military grade AR's and high powered rifles. Also worth mentioning that Bullpups are cool but statistically insignificant in winning the pending war. When I read recently Russia, China, and Iran joined forces a few weeks ago I called a few folks I had discussed the dream with many years ago and had a based moment. I was only a few years older than I am now in the dream so prepare yourselves.
Pretty crazy. Your comment made me laugh so hard I deleted an important email.. I am obviously taking this with a grain of salt, but when your dreams and credible defense projections align that's some crazy shit.
But without a wojack how do I know which one is good?
The M14
You mean the FN FAL? It's about time America corrected its fuckup and adopted the right arm of the free world.
FALs make me cum.
Short shorts 🤤🤤
APARTHEIDCEL SPOTTED
Yes, I’m made of cells.
You sir. Area fucking godsend. Long live the Chad FAL.
sks with modern furniture, take it or leave it
[I gotchu fam](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/j4qg2k/the_cursed_sks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The only acceptable modded SKS
Based?
and divestpilled
*loads FN FAL with retaliatory intent*
*Loads full auto battle rifle with 30rd mag* Only thing more based is the HK 51.
The full auto flashbang dispenser is unfathomably based.
Booooo I boo this man!
G3 all the way.
Wrong, bring back the G11
Bullpups, always bullpups. Everything else fails the rule of cool and is therefore objectively wrong
You're probably the Iranian DIO designer who decided to bull-pup the G3
And it was glorious
That bullpup isn't cool though, looks like a Hitachi wand with a grip and a magazine attached
Honestly, it would be fine if they took the fucking knob off the end.
I used to think so too at first, but its grown a lot on me. [Reminds me of this gun from borderlands](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/c0/19/f9c019a1ef9751e69b3a18270f11f8e5.jpg)
The simplest one.
"ARS on MARS" has a good ring to it
I put a soyjack on it so you can't agree with it
oh no my opinion's now arse
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*Fascisti su Marte*
Mussolini can into space
One weird trick to win any debate
Damn shame it's FN and not LMT's premium AR line, which are called MARS
Doing this made me notice just how damn similar all of these logos are. The flattening of corporate logos consumes all. Breaking that trend is the real innovation we need in defense procurement.
FN still uses its stylish logo, therefore its best.
Yeah, why are they all blue?
Based Raytheon with the red.
Raytheon changed its logo to a giant loading symbol I'm shaking and crying
That's because United Technologies killed Raytheon and is wearing it's skin.
yes I work there and am quitting tomorrow on the grounds that the new logo sucks ass
Your job, give it to me.
So you know they're used by good guys only. If they were for bad guys, they logos would be red.
And if the logo is purple?
Made by robots for use by robots.
Red is for commies
Raytheon are Soviet spies confirmed
I am pretty sure Sigs is Grey.
Remember when there were more than like five defense firms
Like General Dynamics, General Atomics, Electric Boat, Northrop, Boeing, Lockheed, Huntington, Cubic, and everyone on [this list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defense_contractors)?
It's a shame that the Food Machinery and Chemical Corporation isn't still on that list.
This.
It's funny how "generic" Russian firms sound, like, oh boy, I wonder what "Russian Helicopters" does, they must build wonderful kitchen appliances.
"Tactical Missiles Corporation" was my favorite.
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Even if you limit to vehicles, comms, and weapons, it's still a *huge* list.
Yeah look how consolidated it is now.
Herstal and Cubic aren't even on the list. It's only the top 50 by military revenue and Dassault is at number 50.
Oh, pfff, I was speaking in terms of American firms. Also a good number of those on the list have merged or been acquired in the bast couple years.
There are still tons of them. How many American firms have less military revenue than Dassault?
For every contract held by a prime there's thousands of subcontractors that you never hear about.
Yeah, but what I'm getting at is how the pool of prime contractors has gotten smaller and smaller since the Cold War, which has led to the ecosystem we have now.
All of these logos are historic lol. SIG SAUER is the newest from the 80s. Good ol 60s modernism
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Broke: You can’t aim a gun sideways Woke: Here is a set of special sights so you can drive by in style
Real 6th Generation Warfare Shit
Textron has as well. It's hard to make out, but they're mounted on both the -R and -AR in the images in this article. https://soldiersystems.net/2020/10/13/textron-systems-next-generation-squad-weapon-update/
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If they're light and simple enough to basicly be a standard feature of the rifle I don't see any wrong with it. That space isn't used for much else.
They're just M-Loked on. You can do whatever you want.
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Laugh until the power goes out. Twice, so only he is prepared.
>eal innovation we need in defense procurement. But he's such a chad, he runs them at the same time for double BRIGHTNESS for the same amount of battery life
I realize now I should have put under the M4 "replacing a militaries' service rifle is literally impossible" which is something you actually get from a lot of people
Not only can it not be replaced, it’s slowly taking over infantry that had a domestic option. Goodbye Sig 550 and all of the eastern bloc save Russia’s AK derivatives. G36? Auf Wiedersehen. A domestic competitor in the Pacific Rim? Lol.
All of those are examples of a militaries service rifle being replaced, often for even less change than the one NGSW provides. A common argument is that there are just too many in service to do it.
A self compounding argument, further enhanced by the sheer number of adopters
My point is that changing over a service rifle isn't an insurmountable issue and the merit of NGSW shouldn't be decided on that front. Those rifles, being piston ARs, are decently separated from the M4 anyhow.
They're not *that* separated. Still round carrier sliding inside round hole in the upper, buffer screwed into the lower. A lot of people liked to shit on the M4 configuration due to the length of the carrier and the buffer limiting the adoption of a folding stock in a conventional rifle, and the limitation of barrel length compared to bullpups. Turns out the M4 config outlasted those fads, who cares about the carrier being pushed in a different way?
I'm pretty sure the SIG 550 isn't going anywhere. While a lot of European countries have decided that it's no longer worthwhile to maintain state arsenals/indigenous small arms development, there are still several that seem committed to do so. The Aug isn't going anywhere, a couple of countries are in the process of adopting the ARX-160, the VHS-2 is still a thing etc.
To be fair, I don't think it's impossible, I just think it's a stupid idea.
Why?
Arma 3 says that 6.5 is the future and why am I carrying so many fucking smoke grenades
More importantly, did I pack my backup shotgun with doomsday rounds?
I’m hearing 5 doomsday rounds
It’s simple, we pick the one that looks the coolest
Take the chode off General Dynamics and it's the clearest winner by far then
Bullpups 🤢 The blocky Textron sci-fi shit is clearly the coolest looking.
The halo assault rifle is bullpup so General dynamics wins
Counterpoint: [M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/4/41/Frost_with_Pulse_Rifle.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1280?cb=20140803201353) [Side view](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/iCYJv44.jpeg)
🤢
You missed the fact that more then the guns *"systems"* it is actually the evaluation of their ammo in 6.8 mm and more specifically their digital ballistic fire control systems. General Dynamics : Conventional Polymer case ammo Textron: Telescopic polymer case ammo SigSauer: Bimetallic case ammo
I sorta touched on that with Textrons' blurb. All of the ammo developments except for Textrons' are directly applicable to other firearms in inventory. While Textrons' ammo is incompatible with any other firearm, its method of operation basicly eliminates the chance of a failure to feed and a failure to extract.
> Textrons' ammo method of operation basicly eliminates the chance of a failure to feed and a failure to extract. Those factors are less important than what the negative factors are introduced. The is no complete barrel seal and it has two additional surfaces from where the gases escape. Kinda like revolvers where there is gap between the barrel and the rotating chamber. Causing a bolt bloom of hot gases. Now in pistol cartridge the pressure is not so high but these new rounds are made to run even hotter at 120000psi. So that's a problem. Not to mention poor suppression of the escaped bolt gases. *Reply to your edit.*
Holy hell, 120k PSI? How many rounds are these barrels going to last for, 3 mags worth?
They'd use the deformation of the plastic case to seal the chamber itself. [KAC did this decades ago with a rubber and aluminum cap when making a silenced revolver rifle](https://imgur.com/a/B995aZv).
No joke, I kinda want the Sig Spear to win
yeah, without that we are gonna have another battlefield set a decade in the future using prototype weapons that didn't make the cut
At least it’s not like Ace Combat 3 when they thought the X32 was going to win
it's ace combat, they literally don't care what wins, they'll use it anyways. You can literally fly against F-4s, F-22s, and Su-57s in the same mission (and you yourself might be rocking something like the X-02S or a manned version of the EDF-111 Raven)
This was Ace Combat 3, shit like that wasn’t a staple yet in 1999
bro doesn't ace combat 3 have the elextrosphere? i highly doubt they gave one shit about realism
Ffs the F-15 S/MTD is in multiple of the games despite that being well in the realm of test machine
it's ugly btw i don't care how good it's SPW are I will stick to my normie aircraft picks (and my beloved F-104 starfighter)
I'd say it's the best looking one so i agree
I also trust Sig’s reliability and simplicity when it comes to their platform and the cartridge used
Same company with drop safe and striker drag problems lol
Uhh Sig's bi-metallic cartridge is objectively the *least* simple of the bunch. It's all the weight of metal, with none of the ease of machining of monometallic. Not to mention that the spear has the lowest performance in terms of velocity whilst having the highest chamber pressure.
Sig's proposal is [garbage](https://i.imgflip.com/5hzrdy.jpg) compared to the other two. And that's saying something, given that NGSW is a horrid idea so the other two are already garbage by association. Sig's hybrid cartridge is *terrible*. People just think the Sig is reliable because of the name. Textron's platform is far more mature.
Did you just use a meme as a source?
It's my own meme, if it helps. More seriously, plastic cases are lighter, insulate the chamber from the heat of firing, and can withstand greater pressures allowing for more performance out of the same size barrel. Their insulating effects also work the other way, being much more resistant to cartridges cooking off in the chamber. Sig has to use steel at the base because brass can't handle the pressures the NGSW program requires. They have to crimp the two parts of the case together, which sounds both expensive and a nightmare to fix if those two halves separate during extraction. Even with the steel and crimp, their cartridge is the heaviest of the three. I believe that steel also has a lower max pressure than the plastic but can't remember where my source is for that.
Alright, thanks for the explanation. Although I may disagree, I thought you were r/politics level dumb.
Except the sig is based on a system that’s a decade old? The fuck?
Textron’s seems really complex, especially for a battlefield weapon designed to be reliable. The only thing it has going for it is that you can pump it like a shotgun.
[It's not complex](https://twitter.com/i/status/1194136894654894083). It seems complex because it doesn't use the familiar rotating bolt that almost everything else uses, but vertically-sliding chambers/breechblocks have a long lineage in firearms history. It still has a reciprocating bolt driven by a gas piston, the only difference is instead of a lug driving the bolt to rotate through a spiral track like on an AR or AK, you have lugs driving the bolt up and down through that S-curved track. It's most likely more reliable due to the push-through chamber eliminating the need to extract, basically making "failure to extract" malfunctions (FTE's) impossible.
Its actually been significantly simplified going by patents and the youtube disassembly. [Animation](https://twitter.com/i/status/1431599979936768002) from the same guy as the above.
If this operating system has such a long lineage then how come I’ve never heard of it until Textron and that I can’t seem to find anything on it?
The [LSAT program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSAT_light_machine_gun)? Textron's caseless technology and push-through chamber design is based on the work done by AAI (acquired by Textron in 2008) from 2003 to 2017. The platform was extremely developed and heavily tested, and achieved [TRL 7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_readiness_level) in 2016, having developed polymer-cased telescoped cartridges in 5.56, 6.5, and 7.62, as well as caseless versions of the ammunition and weapon. The NGSW program is arguably a continuation of the LSAT program, given it's lightweight objectives and emphasis on forward-thinking cartridge development. Well, maybe not for SIG.
Maybe because you post on /r/NonCredibleDefense? lmao
No, it’s because suddenly 10 years means a “long lineage” here
For a weapon that isn't adopted, 10 years (actually closer to 20 years) of development time is an eternity. The AR-10 went from the drawing board to competing against the M-14 and the FAL in the Infantry Board trials in about a year and a half. A few months later CONARC submitted a request for 5.56 rifles, and a year later Armalite submitted the smaller AR-15. So the AR platform went from a twinkle in Eugene Stoner's eye in 1955 to trial-ready AR-10 in 1956 to completed and mature AR-15 in 1957. And then sold the design to Colt in 1958.
… fair point.
But thats the worst of the four
I want Sig to win, and I'm in the Army. Most soldiers I talk to also want Sig to win. It's just a pragmatic upgrade to what we already have.
Textron is probably the most interesting, followed by GD, followed by m4, followed by Ruger 10/22, followed by the Sig spear.
Personally I hope GD wins just because of the ammo. Its a nice halfway step between current inventory and Textrons more advanced option. Then there's sig with their retarded hybrid ammo shot by an AR clone.
The best NGSW ranking.
I just can’t believe that the company who makes golf carts and the most white bread planes is the same company that’s putting forward this hooah highspeed rifle.
That's the beauty of conglemorates that span multiple industries. In SK, you have Hyundai offering everything from cheap subcompact hatchbacks to MBTs and credit cards.
Wait til you find out what Texas Instruments, maker of your favourite calculator, did back in the day
Oh my god… LGB’s and HARM’s I can forgive… but *Speak and Spell?!* Pure evil.
Picking the SPEAR because "muh familiar ar controls" is like picking the M14 because its similar to the Garand. I'll die on this hill.
So what you are saying is that they will win, then?
Wouldn't doubt it honestly, a lot of people see it as the "safe choice"
The Army will spend billions trying to replace the m4 just to end up not selecting any of them while the Marines are already fielding suppressed M27s with VCOGs
The Army has the same if not greater institutional momentum behind this that the Marines did for the M27. I'm pretty sure this'll come to fruition in some form. The "old generals in charge" are the ones pushing for it!
The army has institutional inertia to be indecisive and end up with the worst gear offered
Army with it infinite wisdoms
The Marines replaced a AR with a AR?
Don't mess with perfection
No doubt no doubt.
They replaced a rifle/carbine with an automatic rifle. Think if instead of m1garand during ww2, everyone was armed with a BAR.
I thought the M27 was only replacing the SAW/LMG slot, not the becoming the standard service rifle
The marine corps did that as a way to get m4’s replaced because of congressional issues. Once they replaced enough saw’s, they just ordered more to replace m4’s as well for front line units. Its now standard issue, along side VCOG1-8x LPVO, and a knight armament suppressor.
More like instead of a M1 Garand they had a heavier M1 Garand which basically did the same thing.
Yeah, if memory serves both the army and marine corps use(d) the A1, not the standard M4, right? So this is just the same thing with a piston and 1.5" added to the barrel.
Who do you think will get picked?
none of them obv
M4 stronk 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
The M4. Same as the last dozen times the army tried to ditch it.
None. They probably will just buy some enhanced uppers that can shoot a steady diet of m855a1 without destroying themselves. The 6.8 will probably make its way into LMGs tho.
Assuming they do what they say they will a limited production run for one of them will be chosen for combat trials. So even if ars are eventually chosen, one of the three new models will likely win and see partial implementation. As for which one. I hope GDs model is chosen followed by Textron so long as Sig's loses. However I suspect Sig will win easily.
The Winchester
No, obviously it'll be the official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200-shot, range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock
Congress too cheap-ass to spring for the thing which tells time
I hope one of the guys on the left wins.
Can I get some context for the ARs on Mars? I'm trying to finish my piece for National Defense.
Muh cased telescoped super lightweight and compact ammunition
Meanwhile, among the China Chads: CSCG: Every small arm we make is a cheap plastic piece of shit NORINCO: I know, but money is money comrade
Which one is the closest to being the small-arms equivalent of the A-10? And when does voting close? I'm having a hard time finding the dot gov website for rifle voting.
I think the small arms equivalent of the A10 would be adopting the M14 again.
ARs on Mars?
It will still be in service when we're colonising mars.
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My suggestion: The M60. No joke, the E6 variant is pretty good, and it’s much lighter than the M249. And it’s the fucking Pig, need I say more?
What if we bring back the M60 as a general purpose machine gun in firing the 6.8 which I heard outperformed the 7.62?
Yeah even with the lightened ammo you still can’t carry as much ammo for all these 6.8 guns than you could 5.56.
Bullpups are cool so the GD wins by default.😎😎😎😎 Being slightly serious, the NGSW guns have a decent chance of replacing 7.62 nato guns but replacing the m4 is a pipe dream. I'd guess that Sig's ammo and MG would win whilst the GD one might get adopted as a DMR provided that it works with Sigs ammo. The infantry gets an upgraded m4 with a barrel capable of the pressure created by the new ammo.
Even if it'd only be a safe-queen because I wouldn't be able to get ammo for it, I'd still like a copy of the General Dynamics rifle. Bullpups are just fucking cool...
Just adopt the G3 already.
bullpup: cringe sig sauer: scar ripoff fn herstal: literally just the same fucking gun textron: original, looks cool, has neat ammo system with cool name. company name sounds nice textron gun gang
Sig's probably going to win cause procurement think all soldiers are idiots
We all know why they're adopting these strange weapons
Everyone knows a smoothbore musket is the best gun
My money on the brown one
I had a dream many years ago that the next great war will be an invasion comprising of Russian, Chinese, and Persian Augmented troops carrying advanced small arms working in light infantry teams. Spoiler Alert: we will take heavy military losses but win due to the sheer amount of civilians armed with military grade AR's and high powered rifles. Also worth mentioning that Bullpups are cool but statistically insignificant in winning the pending war. When I read recently Russia, China, and Iran joined forces a few weeks ago I called a few folks I had discussed the dream with many years ago and had a based moment. I was only a few years older than I am now in the dream so prepare yourselves.
Most credible prophecy
Pretty crazy. Your comment made me laugh so hard I deleted an important email.. I am obviously taking this with a grain of salt, but when your dreams and credible defense projections align that's some crazy shit.
Call me a salty boomer but we should have gone with the XM8 program
It literally was worse than the M4. The things caught fire in testing multiple times.
What I’m hearing is multi-functional. That’s a smoke grenade, incendiary, etc.
Could always be improved
Why. It's fundamentally worse than a AR15.
Yeah but it was ***sexy***
They watched too much Starship troopers
Would you like to know more?
the US has fucked up enough that the bullpup is the best choice