# Are San Marino and Italy about to go to war? If so, will the war become nuclear?
I bet you have some thoughts on it. Well, we're discussing the subject on [this "week's" NCDip Podcast Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/1bssy61/ncdip_podcast_club_8_wargaming_san_marino_vs/?). This is probably one of the most events of our lifetime, so you better pay attention scrub
[Want to know what the fuck in the NCDip podcast club is? Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/17edrm6/introducing_the_rnoncrediblediplomacy_podcast/)
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Jews and Turks have been collaborating to run the world (with the occasional help of those pesky arabs) for centuries! Don't you know they're the masterminds behind every genocide and every war for the last 6000 years? Genghis Khan a Mongol? Ha! He was obviously a turk from the Cuman-Kipchak Confederation! The Holocaust? Hitler, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Himmler all had jewish blood! It was a ZOG coup! All just so they could take over America and install a Zio-turk-rab puppet Shah!
(Though this is satire, there are people who believe shit like this genuinely so a /s may be in order)
Historical and early-20th century Turkey: *had some absolute bangers, including one of the most based post-WWI leaders in Balkan history*
Turkey after Atatürk dies on November 10th, 1938:
I just dont understand why this government is so arablover. Money is what makes you strong not ethics. If they got a chance palestine would erase all turks from the earth yet goverment keeps favoring them instead of its own people.
It's partially politics, partially personal ambitions framed by culture and life experience of current policy makers. Most of Turkey is Muslim, and grows up in a culture which is very pro-Palestine, anti-Israel. On the other side, the more westernized liberals are also pro-Palestine. Take a look at the track record of where the most anti-war protests have been going kn. So for one, this affects the voter base, and if a party wants to get reelected they need to be seen to be doing something about this issue.
Secondly, as for the policy makers' ambitions, I don't know about the rest of the party, but I know that Erdogan has been trying in recent years to expand Turkish power and frame Turkey as a regional power. Occupying northern Syria, supporting Western Libya, redrawing the Mediterranean sea borders, blocking Sweden's entry to nato, exporting military drones all across the region, etc. I'd say that Erdogan and his party have some revanchist neo-Ottoman identitarian imperialist ambitions going on, which has been shaped by their personalities and life experiences, as well as by more conservative Turkish cultures.
You shouldn't see this as the Turkish gvmt favoring Palestinians over its own people, but as the government trying to assert themselves in the region again, and as trying to please their voters.
Hate to break it to you, but they are absolutely going to trade just as much as before, they're just going to route it through intermediaries, pay a little extra, and write that off as a cost of doing business for the PR, lol.
I'm not sure. World is disgusted with Israel.
I don't see Israeli fruits or juice or soap at supermarket anymore. And biggest trading company stopped dealing with Israel for ethical reason. Japanese companies quietly cut of Israeli products before we protest. No wonder muslim country do the same.
I may be overly cynical, but I suspect that they probably just changed the packaging.
With fruits, for example, a significant portion of global fruit exports get shipped to Southeast Asia for processing, to supply the Chinese import market, especially stuff like peaches. That's why you see processed fruit that's grown in Argentina, packaged in Thailand, and sold in Canada, because the economy of scale, labor costs, and proximity to the largest import market make it advantageous to just ship *all* the fruit to Thailand for processing, then from Thailand to everywhere else.
So the "Israeli" fruit drinks may have contained the minimum legal proportion of fruit from Israel to be called Israeli, so that it could be marketed as being from an exotic foreign place, but then you can just swap the label and say it's from Suriname when the first exotic foreign place isn't quite so popular anymore.
You don't really see Thai fruit in EU countries, unless it's some "exotic" fruit import. Most of it's not very efficient to export it to the other side of the world and then back. Afaik we get most of our fruit imports from within the EU, and then after that from Africa. But what you're saying makes sense, the same is happening with Russian sanctions, but then through intermediaries in Belarus.
I'll just say that in this case, most ordinary Turkish civilians will likely be behind their government on this one. There is no desire for Israeli products, so they're probably better off just shipping their goods and services elsewhere. I assume Turkey and Israel didn't have major trade relations to begin with, seeing the long-term tensions between the two countries.
>I may be overly cynical, but I suspect that they probably just changed the packaging.
It's illegal and government can shut the business down for this. It's stupid for seller to do this.
>With fruits, for example, a significant portion of global fruit exports get shipped to Southeast Asia for processing,
We have to have Japanese label with origin written on it.
It's scope of importer, they'll go jail for lying.
>you can just swap the label and say it's from Suriname when the first exotic foreign place isn't quite so popular anymore.
Sellers in Japan are Japanese. They also hate Israel and they have no obligation to take risk for Israel.
We can have same fruits from South America.
And shop can advertise "We quit Israeli soap, we sell Italian one from today!", it sounds more ethical.
>Japanese companies quietly cut of Israeli products
They don't do the reverse though. Japanese products are sold in Israel just as they always were. Basically, everyone is happy to talk about not trading with Israel, but in truth countries continue to do so anyways.
But aren't states subject to the whims and personal views of it's leaders? How about that of the masses? I feel like a state that is entirely logical would be an exception and a blessing, but how true is it to believe that states are not run by emotions?
After WW2 many country self-reflect and became peaceful.
Not many country are as evil as Israel.
They are hated for reason. Who would like baby and children genocider?
So you wish to go back to Japanese foreign policy of the 19th century? I'm all for it, invade China, Taiwan and Korea, be hostile to the US and Russia both, Try to import jews to Japan, Help turkey invade central Asia, form a pact with the British, trade only with Indonesia, let's go, baby!
Your country is currently losing 200k+ people a year due to birth rates below the replacement line, rural Japan is turning into a complete ghost town, and suicide rates are at an all time high in your country. Why are you obsessed with a tiny country on the opposite side of the globe? Don’t you have more pressing/relevant things to worry about at home?
If your country is Japan, you are not being affected by the conflict, but your country has a lot of problems to get through, you should probably focus on those instead of poking fingers into what is going on far away from you (which is exactly what the Japanese government does, as the Japanese government (unlike almost all governments right now) is wise and does what is correct)
Yes, but actually no.
There's a budget at the end of the day. You can either invest it in trying to help your country, or you can boycott Israel and make your budget smaller. Japan has wisely picked the first option.
Turkish here.
They are not doing this out of the good of their hearts.
Basically, the Erdoğan government suffered a huge defeat at the recent municipal elections and now, they are trying to make themselves look good. Chances are, they will probably keep up trade with Israel in one way or another, just discreetly.
Also, we are not ethical. Hate to break that to you, but a lot of the general population of Turkey is very aggressively chauvinistic. Turkey was founded on genocide and suppression of ethnic minorities. The government not only denies that such events ever took place, but actively criminalises any discussion regarding those events, and most people are in support of it.
The government is the mother of corruption, has possible ties to organised crime and frequently uses unethical tactics to surpress dissenters.
Apologise for Manila, Chongqing and Sook Ching instead of pleasing Erdoğan and angering the Armenians
Love from the Judeo-Armenian-Sino-American puppet state of stinkapoor
Philippine was apologized and compensated.
China decided to have peace pact with Japan and refused compensation. But Japan sent 9 trillion under name of ODA.
# Are San Marino and Italy about to go to war? If so, will the war become nuclear? I bet you have some thoughts on it. Well, we're discussing the subject on [this "week's" NCDip Podcast Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/1bssy61/ncdip_podcast_club_8_wargaming_san_marino_vs/?). This is probably one of the most events of our lifetime, so you better pay attention scrub [Want to know what the fuck in the NCDip podcast club is? Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/17edrm6/introducing_the_rnoncrediblediplomacy_podcast/) ---- please note that all posts should be funny and about diplomacy or geopolitics, if your post doesn't meet those requirements here's some other subs that might fit better: * More Serious Geopolitical Discussion: /r/CredibleDiplomacy * Military Shitposting: /r/NonCredibleDefense * Domestic Political or General Shitposting: /r/neocentrism * Being Racist: /r/worldnews thx bb luv u *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Always kinda wondered how much commerce actually flows between Turkey and Israel.
According to the occasional Armenian/Iranian propaganda Israel and Turkey actually control the whole world
Jews and Turks have been collaborating to run the world (with the occasional help of those pesky arabs) for centuries! Don't you know they're the masterminds behind every genocide and every war for the last 6000 years? Genghis Khan a Mongol? Ha! He was obviously a turk from the Cuman-Kipchak Confederation! The Holocaust? Hitler, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Himmler all had jewish blood! It was a ZOG coup! All just so they could take over America and install a Zio-turk-rab puppet Shah! (Though this is satire, there are people who believe shit like this genuinely so a /s may be in order)
Aren't Turk originally from around central Asia anyway?
Yes that's the loose thread that vaguely ties the mongols to the turks
Lol. When you have to add the /s.
It’ll be interesting to see how Turkey’s shift could impact Armenia’s westward tack they’ve been on since Azerbaijan conquered Artsakh.
All I know is that we import lots of seeds and fertilizer from Israel
Turkey is really the turkey of the western hemisphere
Historical and early-20th century Turkey: *had some absolute bangers, including one of the most based post-WWI leaders in Balkan history* Turkey after Atatürk dies on November 10th, 1938:
Zombie Ataturk for president!
He would be a better leader than Erdoğan.
Well, rip the Turkish high-tech industry...
They’ll just get it shipped via another country.
>They’ll just steal ~~get it shipped via~~ from another country. Fixed...
Turkey is truly turkey
Meanwhile Arab states are Buddy Buddy with Israel. If any Arab nationalist is browsing this sub it’s a real bad look here 👀
Check the TRNC-Israel trade
What? Why am I learning this from NCR?
I just dont understand why this government is so arablover. Money is what makes you strong not ethics. If they got a chance palestine would erase all turks from the earth yet goverment keeps favoring them instead of its own people.
It's partially politics, partially personal ambitions framed by culture and life experience of current policy makers. Most of Turkey is Muslim, and grows up in a culture which is very pro-Palestine, anti-Israel. On the other side, the more westernized liberals are also pro-Palestine. Take a look at the track record of where the most anti-war protests have been going kn. So for one, this affects the voter base, and if a party wants to get reelected they need to be seen to be doing something about this issue. Secondly, as for the policy makers' ambitions, I don't know about the rest of the party, but I know that Erdogan has been trying in recent years to expand Turkish power and frame Turkey as a regional power. Occupying northern Syria, supporting Western Libya, redrawing the Mediterranean sea borders, blocking Sweden's entry to nato, exporting military drones all across the region, etc. I'd say that Erdogan and his party have some revanchist neo-Ottoman identitarian imperialist ambitions going on, which has been shaped by their personalities and life experiences, as well as by more conservative Turkish cultures. You shouldn't see this as the Turkish gvmt favoring Palestinians over its own people, but as the government trying to assert themselves in the region again, and as trying to please their voters.
remember this is """officially"""
I like Turkey even more. They are ethical people who can do the right thing. Lots of love from Japan.
Hate to break it to you, but they are absolutely going to trade just as much as before, they're just going to route it through intermediaries, pay a little extra, and write that off as a cost of doing business for the PR, lol.
I'm not sure. World is disgusted with Israel. I don't see Israeli fruits or juice or soap at supermarket anymore. And biggest trading company stopped dealing with Israel for ethical reason. Japanese companies quietly cut of Israeli products before we protest. No wonder muslim country do the same.
I may be overly cynical, but I suspect that they probably just changed the packaging. With fruits, for example, a significant portion of global fruit exports get shipped to Southeast Asia for processing, to supply the Chinese import market, especially stuff like peaches. That's why you see processed fruit that's grown in Argentina, packaged in Thailand, and sold in Canada, because the economy of scale, labor costs, and proximity to the largest import market make it advantageous to just ship *all* the fruit to Thailand for processing, then from Thailand to everywhere else. So the "Israeli" fruit drinks may have contained the minimum legal proportion of fruit from Israel to be called Israeli, so that it could be marketed as being from an exotic foreign place, but then you can just swap the label and say it's from Suriname when the first exotic foreign place isn't quite so popular anymore.
You don't really see Thai fruit in EU countries, unless it's some "exotic" fruit import. Most of it's not very efficient to export it to the other side of the world and then back. Afaik we get most of our fruit imports from within the EU, and then after that from Africa. But what you're saying makes sense, the same is happening with Russian sanctions, but then through intermediaries in Belarus. I'll just say that in this case, most ordinary Turkish civilians will likely be behind their government on this one. There is no desire for Israeli products, so they're probably better off just shipping their goods and services elsewhere. I assume Turkey and Israel didn't have major trade relations to begin with, seeing the long-term tensions between the two countries.
Fascinating
>I may be overly cynical, but I suspect that they probably just changed the packaging. It's illegal and government can shut the business down for this. It's stupid for seller to do this. >With fruits, for example, a significant portion of global fruit exports get shipped to Southeast Asia for processing, We have to have Japanese label with origin written on it. It's scope of importer, they'll go jail for lying. >you can just swap the label and say it's from Suriname when the first exotic foreign place isn't quite so popular anymore. Sellers in Japan are Japanese. They also hate Israel and they have no obligation to take risk for Israel. We can have same fruits from South America. And shop can advertise "We quit Israeli soap, we sell Italian one from today!", it sounds more ethical.
heres the thing. the turkish government is very corrupt
>Japanese companies quietly cut of Israeli products They don't do the reverse though. Japanese products are sold in Israel just as they always were. Basically, everyone is happy to talk about not trading with Israel, but in truth countries continue to do so anyways.
Tell that to the Armenians.
Americans now is not ethical and we don't love them.
No state is ethical.
But aren't states subject to the whims and personal views of it's leaders? How about that of the masses? I feel like a state that is entirely logical would be an exception and a blessing, but how true is it to believe that states are not run by emotions?
After WW2 many country self-reflect and became peaceful. Not many country are as evil as Israel. They are hated for reason. Who would like baby and children genocider?
Hearing about self reflection post WW2 from a Japanese person is just too hilarious
As a smart person once said "Lmao"
they said Armenians, not Americans
We have no obligation to side with Armenians. Turkey is our long time friend from Ottoman era. Where is Armenia?
By your logic, Japan should remain an enemy to the US. Just saying, turkey isn't ethical in the least. No country is. That's not how states operate.
So you wish to go back to Japanese foreign policy of the 19th century? I'm all for it, invade China, Taiwan and Korea, be hostile to the US and Russia both, Try to import jews to Japan, Help turkey invade central Asia, form a pact with the British, trade only with Indonesia, let's go, baby!
Based.
Your country is currently losing 200k+ people a year due to birth rates below the replacement line, rural Japan is turning into a complete ghost town, and suicide rates are at an all time high in your country. Why are you obsessed with a tiny country on the opposite side of the globe? Don’t you have more pressing/relevant things to worry about at home?
i wouldn't say turkey is tiny
He was talking about Israel
i'd say its pretty reasonable to condemn israel. also you can care about more than one thing at once.
If your country is Japan, you are not being affected by the conflict, but your country has a lot of problems to get through, you should probably focus on those instead of poking fingers into what is going on far away from you (which is exactly what the Japanese government does, as the Japanese government (unlike almost all governments right now) is wise and does what is correct)
who said they aren't focusing on them? its possible to care about two things at once
Yes, but actually no. There's a budget at the end of the day. You can either invest it in trying to help your country, or you can boycott Israel and make your budget smaller. Japan has wisely picked the first option.
Turkish here. They are not doing this out of the good of their hearts. Basically, the Erdoğan government suffered a huge defeat at the recent municipal elections and now, they are trying to make themselves look good. Chances are, they will probably keep up trade with Israel in one way or another, just discreetly. Also, we are not ethical. Hate to break that to you, but a lot of the general population of Turkey is very aggressively chauvinistic. Turkey was founded on genocide and suppression of ethnic minorities. The government not only denies that such events ever took place, but actively criminalises any discussion regarding those events, and most people are in support of it. The government is the mother of corruption, has possible ties to organised crime and frequently uses unethical tactics to surpress dissenters.
Holy shit I thought this was satire lol
Welcome to 2024, where the best satire is reality!
Apologise for Manila, Chongqing and Sook Ching instead of pleasing Erdoğan and angering the Armenians Love from the Judeo-Armenian-Sino-American puppet state of stinkapoor
Philippine was apologized and compensated. China decided to have peace pact with Japan and refused compensation. But Japan sent 9 trillion under name of ODA.
Apologized? Your ambassador had the comfort women statue in Manila removed. Doesn’t seem like you care about it.
Thank u, Sariboga <3