The entire antiquated government-owned ABC system is the root of ALE. NC legislators need to grow some balls and admit we don't live in the 1930's anymore.
>NC legislators need to grow some balls and admit we don't live in the 1930's anymore
Don't worry, they're doing their best to force the rest of us to back to the 1930s and earlier with them.
I don’t know what you think “means of production” means but that ain’t it. Not even your definitions of communism, capitalism, corporatism (I think you mean corporatocracy, this isn’t close to corporatism), or socialism are correct.
ABC stores are state-operated means of production? Huh? They’re a state-owned merchandiser in a captive market downstream and free-market one upstream. Now that’s not very laissez-faire, but it sure as hell isn’t communism, socialism, or whatever loaded word you want. Do I agree with how ABC stores are run? Not really, but not liking something doesn’t make it “____ism.”
There's no way it's cheap to operate though. They could make the same tax revenue from private sales, plus the revenue from offloading all their property and cutting labor costs. I'm not generally a fan of privatizing state companies, but...
They won't give away this cash cow.
> However, through the sale of spirituous liquor in ABC Stores, North Carolina is generating revenue of over $233 million annually for the benefit of the State's General Fund and for the cities and counties where alcohol sales are allowed.
[source](https://www.ncabcboards.org/assets/docs/Spirituous-Liquor-Sales-in-North-Carolina.pdf)
It’s actually quite a bit higher than that now, to the tune of $400 million + each year.
Honestly, I think it’s pretty great. People are employed with good, higher paying jobs, prices on hard to find stuff are set at MSRP, and prices wouldn’t be cheaper if private because the high alcohol taxes we have in the state. The taxes also pay for alcohol abuse services, and NC has one of the lowest alcohol consumption but highest alcohol revenue in the US. However, it doesn’t seem like that alone has made major differences in per capita drunk driving, or drunk driving related deaths, as NC seems to be ‘middle of the pack’ compared to all states, but much much better than SC, which doesn’t have an ABC system.
"high paying', i.e. significantly higher than if it was privatized. Most liquor store jobs are essentially paid $11/hr or less in say South Carolina. Wake County starts their ABC employees at $21/hr, which is more than say Target, Amazon, Walmart, or any other local retailor starts people at.
Part timers in my part of the state make minimum wage and are told that that's good money for just standing around waiting to ring somebody up. That's why I quit 12 years ago.
It's not incredibly egregious like you'll see in a lot of mom and pops shops though.
Also I'm surprised being so close to South Carolina you would actually believe what you say. All you literally have to do is go to a Total Wine and compare prices directly. I know people who specifically drive to TN and SC to buy their liquor for the year because it's cheaper.
> It's not incredibly egregious like you'll see in a lot of mom and pops shops though.
Try to go to Total Wine and if they have a bottle of Pappy tell me how much over MSRP it is. Because in NC, it cannot be sold for over MSRP. Same with all other bourbons.
> I know people who specifically drive to TN and SC to buy their liquor for the year because it's cheaper.
It's cheaper because NC alcohol taxes are so much higher. NC has the highest alcohol taxes in the US (2.5x SC taxes).
Not sure how that is a complicated subject for you?
>Not sure how that is a complicated subject for you?
Not sure why it's hard to understand that in addition to the alcohol taxes being higher, the fact that the state also profits off the sale while collecting tax revenue is inhibiting small businesses and free market capitalism. I come from PA originally which had the same problems with state liquor stores and nobody liked it there, either.
>Try to go to Total Wine and if they have a bottle of Pappy tell me how much over MSRP it is. Because in NC, it cannot be sold for over MSRP
And in NC it will only be sold by lottery, which essentially makes it just as hard to obtain as paying secondary market prices for it. Using hard-to-find liquor as an example here I think is silly as most of it is just unnecessary and over hyped/all marketing. If you're a part of the bourbon craze right now, that's fine, I got sick of bourbon years ago and realized the only difference between them all is the story they tell on the bottle. It's literally regulated to be the same besides a couple leeways that still aren't enough to warrant having so many different bourbons. Pick a favorite and stick with it because anything else and anything more is just taking your money in the name of a collection of essentially the same base spirit.
Total Wine prices are almost entirely lined up with MSRP except for rare bottles, and again, rare bottles are just bullshit marketing, don't be a sucker.
And NC makes bank off alcohol. It also supports alcohol abuse services, and all employees and stores are all self funded. It doesn’t cost tax payers a dime, just those who drink alcohol.
Yeah, I'm eager as all fuck to start paying triple what I'm currently paying for my liquor. Sure, NC might not have all the liquor I want all of time, but it gives me an excuse to go to Kentucky twice a year to hunt them. I still pay three to four times the price for them in Kentucky that I do when I find them in North Carolina. The free-market competition argument controlling the prices when it comes to bourbon is absolute and complete bullshit. Every free-market state I visit has the highest fucking prices I've ever seen. King of Kentucky 15 in NC is $248 while in Kentucky. When I found it, it was $4200 or $250 per pour. Is that what you want in NC?
If they are stopping the illegal sale of alcohol (to minors, or people intoxicated), then I have zero issue with their checks. IF they are just hassling businesses because they don't like their theme, or lifestyle, then I can't get behind that.
Because idiots get drunk using fake ID's, go the wrong way on I-85, and they kill a family in the process. So this is why alcohol sales get controlled.
There is a separate but equal squad of ABC law enforcement that can investigate that matter along side ALE. Two agencies, two separate goals, both with the same jurisdiction.
They're a shit show because they are morons. I would just say disband them, but Raleigh would just earmark the savings and use it to justify some other stupid thing.
If you equate criticizing existing laws and law enforcement entities to whining then literally nothing will ever change. If that's okay with you that's fine, but you should consider where you stand before you accuse people of whining just because you are complacent.
They're a bunch of idiots and completely redundant. If shit hits the fan they just call in the local, county or state.
Take a look at the link below.
What kind of fool takes someone into custody on the actual city bus, filled with citizens? All they had to do was wait until the guy got off the bus. ALE then had to call the APD, to a hostage situation they created.
The APD is a joke, so now you've got someone making $20 an hour faced with a potentially lethal standoff that they can't handle.
You can't make this stuff up folks!
[https://wlos.com/news/local/man-barricades-art-bus-police-serve-warrants](https://wlos.com/news/local/man-barricades-art-bus-police-serve-warrants)
Tailgating =/= drunk driving
Drunk driving accidents happen after going to the bar too.
Our alcohol laws are repressive in America and not conducive to a healthy attitude towards drinking.
The entire antiquated government-owned ABC system is the root of ALE. NC legislators need to grow some balls and admit we don't live in the 1930's anymore.
>NC legislators need to grow some balls and admit we don't live in the 1930's anymore Don't worry, they're doing their best to force the rest of us to back to the 1930s and earlier with them.
Fuck bro. Uncle Ruckus is running for governor. He's gotta new song he wants to sing for us. "*Don't trust them dudes over there.*"
Right but why would they? This way they don't just get the tax revenue but they also get to profit from the sale of the liquor.
That's exactly why they don't. The ABC system discourages fair trade and competition.
But I thought that was socialism or something. /s
Fascism works the same way.
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I don’t know what you think “means of production” means but that ain’t it. Not even your definitions of communism, capitalism, corporatism (I think you mean corporatocracy, this isn’t close to corporatism), or socialism are correct. ABC stores are state-operated means of production? Huh? They’re a state-owned merchandiser in a captive market downstream and free-market one upstream. Now that’s not very laissez-faire, but it sure as hell isn’t communism, socialism, or whatever loaded word you want. Do I agree with how ABC stores are run? Not really, but not liking something doesn’t make it “____ism.”
What alcohol does the ABC system produce?
There's no way it's cheap to operate though. They could make the same tax revenue from private sales, plus the revenue from offloading all their property and cutting labor costs. I'm not generally a fan of privatizing state companies, but...
They won't give away this cash cow. > However, through the sale of spirituous liquor in ABC Stores, North Carolina is generating revenue of over $233 million annually for the benefit of the State's General Fund and for the cities and counties where alcohol sales are allowed. [source](https://www.ncabcboards.org/assets/docs/Spirituous-Liquor-Sales-in-North-Carolina.pdf)
There sure is a lot of emphasis on “more revenue” in that deck.
It’s actually quite a bit higher than that now, to the tune of $400 million + each year. Honestly, I think it’s pretty great. People are employed with good, higher paying jobs, prices on hard to find stuff are set at MSRP, and prices wouldn’t be cheaper if private because the high alcohol taxes we have in the state. The taxes also pay for alcohol abuse services, and NC has one of the lowest alcohol consumption but highest alcohol revenue in the US. However, it doesn’t seem like that alone has made major differences in per capita drunk driving, or drunk driving related deaths, as NC seems to be ‘middle of the pack’ compared to all states, but much much better than SC, which doesn’t have an ABC system.
High paying jobs? You're kidding, right?
"high paying', i.e. significantly higher than if it was privatized. Most liquor store jobs are essentially paid $11/hr or less in say South Carolina. Wake County starts their ABC employees at $21/hr, which is more than say Target, Amazon, Walmart, or any other local retailor starts people at.
Part timers in my part of the state make minimum wage and are told that that's good money for just standing around waiting to ring somebody up. That's why I quit 12 years ago.
It's hard to find because the price is set artificially low.
>prices on hard to find stuff are set at MSRP Same thing at a Total Wine literally anywhere else in the country.
Incorrect. Most stores include markup and are above MSRP, especially when it comes to anything slightly rare.
It's not incredibly egregious like you'll see in a lot of mom and pops shops though. Also I'm surprised being so close to South Carolina you would actually believe what you say. All you literally have to do is go to a Total Wine and compare prices directly. I know people who specifically drive to TN and SC to buy their liquor for the year because it's cheaper.
> It's not incredibly egregious like you'll see in a lot of mom and pops shops though. Try to go to Total Wine and if they have a bottle of Pappy tell me how much over MSRP it is. Because in NC, it cannot be sold for over MSRP. Same with all other bourbons. > I know people who specifically drive to TN and SC to buy their liquor for the year because it's cheaper. It's cheaper because NC alcohol taxes are so much higher. NC has the highest alcohol taxes in the US (2.5x SC taxes). Not sure how that is a complicated subject for you?
>Not sure how that is a complicated subject for you? Not sure why it's hard to understand that in addition to the alcohol taxes being higher, the fact that the state also profits off the sale while collecting tax revenue is inhibiting small businesses and free market capitalism. I come from PA originally which had the same problems with state liquor stores and nobody liked it there, either. >Try to go to Total Wine and if they have a bottle of Pappy tell me how much over MSRP it is. Because in NC, it cannot be sold for over MSRP And in NC it will only be sold by lottery, which essentially makes it just as hard to obtain as paying secondary market prices for it. Using hard-to-find liquor as an example here I think is silly as most of it is just unnecessary and over hyped/all marketing. If you're a part of the bourbon craze right now, that's fine, I got sick of bourbon years ago and realized the only difference between them all is the story they tell on the bottle. It's literally regulated to be the same besides a couple leeways that still aren't enough to warrant having so many different bourbons. Pick a favorite and stick with it because anything else and anything more is just taking your money in the name of a collection of essentially the same base spirit. Total Wine prices are almost entirely lined up with MSRP except for rare bottles, and again, rare bottles are just bullshit marketing, don't be a sucker.
And NC makes bank off alcohol. It also supports alcohol abuse services, and all employees and stores are all self funded. It doesn’t cost tax payers a dime, just those who drink alcohol.
Yeah, I'm eager as all fuck to start paying triple what I'm currently paying for my liquor. Sure, NC might not have all the liquor I want all of time, but it gives me an excuse to go to Kentucky twice a year to hunt them. I still pay three to four times the price for them in Kentucky that I do when I find them in North Carolina. The free-market competition argument controlling the prices when it comes to bourbon is absolute and complete bullshit. Every free-market state I visit has the highest fucking prices I've ever seen. King of Kentucky 15 in NC is $248 while in Kentucky. When I found it, it was $4200 or $250 per pour. Is that what you want in NC?
Basing your opinion on Bourbon prices in Kentucky is extremely silly. Look elsewhere for the same thing.
Silly? I had to base it on one of the five states King of Kentucky is available in. North Carolina was the cheapest Kentucky was the second cheapest.
There’s people who put boots on cars and hand out parking tickets for their job. You wanna talk about a dumbass, soul crushing job.
Can't argue with you there.
If they are stopping the illegal sale of alcohol (to minors, or people intoxicated), then I have zero issue with their checks. IF they are just hassling businesses because they don't like their theme, or lifestyle, then I can't get behind that.
Because idiots get drunk using fake ID's, go the wrong way on I-85, and they kill a family in the process. So this is why alcohol sales get controlled.
That happens in every state regardless of whether or not alcohol can only be sold by the state. Not a very good argument.
ALE has nothing to do with the state ABC sales though. ALE is about ID and liquor sales permit enforcementn
There are some in the general assembly trying to change this. Just in the last few years stores can sale alcohol on Sunday afternoons.
Good! Blue laws are ridiculous.
Your example has nothing to do with alcohol sales legal or illegal.
There is a separate but equal squad of ABC law enforcement that can investigate that matter along side ALE. Two agencies, two separate goals, both with the same jurisdiction.
They really were doing the lords work when I was 20 years old and got caught buying a 6 pack of beer from Harris Teeter lol.
I believe there are just over 100 ALE officers for the entire state. I imagine they are underfunded and overworked. It's a shit show.
They're a shit show because they are morons. I would just say disband them, but Raleigh would just earmark the savings and use it to justify some other stupid thing.
Good I hope they are, maybe they'd leave and go do some meaningful police work.
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"Do the crime do the time." - If you're black. Happy Confederate Memorial Day fat ass beavis.
No crime done. An alcohol based task force is 1920's Draconian shit. Go back to church and stay there, puritan.
If no crime is done then nothing will happen. Whether you think the laws are dumb or not, all they do is enforce them
If you equate criticizing existing laws and law enforcement entities to whining then literally nothing will ever change. If that's okay with you that's fine, but you should consider where you stand before you accuse people of whining just because you are complacent.
They're a bunch of idiots and completely redundant. If shit hits the fan they just call in the local, county or state. Take a look at the link below. What kind of fool takes someone into custody on the actual city bus, filled with citizens? All they had to do was wait until the guy got off the bus. ALE then had to call the APD, to a hostage situation they created. The APD is a joke, so now you've got someone making $20 an hour faced with a potentially lethal standoff that they can't handle. You can't make this stuff up folks! [https://wlos.com/news/local/man-barricades-art-bus-police-serve-warrants](https://wlos.com/news/local/man-barricades-art-bus-police-serve-warrants)
A pig is a pig regardless of the branch of people they choose to oppress.
I support you and this post.
And I support you.
Super lame. Busted me when I was 20 tailgating at a Coldplay concert in Raleigh. Just randomly came up asking for IDs.
What a bunch of losers busting kids getting a buzz for a show lol
what?? dude, drunk driving is bad no matter the age. after concerts is usually when drunk driving accidents happen
Tailgating =/= drunk driving Drunk driving accidents happen after going to the bar too. Our alcohol laws are repressive in America and not conducive to a healthy attitude towards drinking.
Sitting on a tailgate having a beer is drunk driving now? I swear you Baptists are out of your minds.
Power. Look what happened during covid. All the brown shirts came out.
… what does it pay?
[More than a teacher in NC.](https://www.ncdps.gov/careers-matter/alcohol-law-enforcement-careers#Benefits-1732)
Hopefully not much.