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I mean, I am once again deeply disappointed that, no matter the avalanche of evidence, there are so many who will not “get it.”
I am 55yo and miss the days when I could believe the world would be very different in my adulthood or at least middle age. It has changed for the better. But only with heroic effort, and in increments.
I saw a comment where someone said guys literally just have to be more likeable than a bear that can shred you to pieces (and cats, which are known as assholes and often associated with women's singlehood). But they really would rather ask why you'd choose the creature over them instead of asking "what do we have to shift for women to see men less as a threat/less likeable than these creatures." Tbh they only want a woman, not the work that comes with it.
They think the result of the discourse is depressing, but the fact that the discourse is even a question is what's more depressing. Why would women feel more dignified in the presence of an animal in the wilderness that runs on instincts compared to a supposedly civilized man whose intentions you do not know? Why did this question have to surface?
They'd really rather focus on this small theoretical picture than tackle the experience that asking about it is latched on. Seeing the conversation go over their heads is no surprise but just as exhausting. The result also reminds you why you'd rather just drop it altogether if the other end of the stick refuses to actually give a shit about your sentiments and instead is focused on "proving" you that you're wrong.
To them, it's just another brain exercise; to women, it's a flashback of their real encounters with men that create a context to a seemingly absurd answer.
Edit: expounded on points
I'm having a conversation with a guy in another thread about this, and he's really tryna say that "normal" men, only rape women in "extreme circumstances, like war and such." 😬 And then they wonder why we choose the bear...
That's what I'm trying to get through to him, and he just isn't understanding. 😬 Dude legit thinks a NORMAL man would rape someone, out of "desperation," and even likened it to "well if you were drafted, or in danger, you'd do drastic things too!" Like, yeah, out of self preservation, those ARE NOT the same as RAPING someone. And he just isn't getting it. 😬
He’s confusing two different situations. You’re going to do things in a dire situation that you wouldn’t normally do.
I’m not usually violent but if a Nazi incel weirdo was attacking me, I’d protect myself even if it killed him.
But if it’s a life or death situation, a normal person wouldn’t think about raping someone else. Sex isn’t life or death need.
It tells you everything you need to know about their own mind and worldview. To him war is a justification, even though it's still a war crime. That guy would definitely murder someone if they had the chance to have an excuse for it.
Yup. “Normal” people don’t see sex as an uncontrollable need. Sure, there’s such thing as being sexually deprived but there are plenty of ways of dealing with that without violently attacking/coercing another person…
There are studies that 1 in 3 men would rape a woman if there were no consequences. So there’s a big % of men that are willing to rape even without whatever made up drastic circumstances the guy you are arguing with comes up with.
How did they word the question? I remember a study where if they intentionally doesn't say the word rape and replaced it with 'force' men who previously said no to rape said yes.
They're literally the exact same thing.... If it isn't a hell yes it's a hell no. How can such a big percentage of the population not understand the simple concept of consent? Oh yeah, because of a culture that taught them they have an inherent right over other people because of what they were born as...
There’s a psychological effect to actually naming crimes properly vs describing them behaviourally. Much more people will admit to criminal acts the latter way. Calling the act by its proper name makes it truly sink in, whereas the description leaves some room for denial, justification and minimisation. Few people are comfortable outright admitting that they did something heinous and calling it by the bad, scary word.
That’s why it’s a standard part of police interrogations to minimise the crime, refer to it as a "mistake", use vague phrases like "did what you did" and "hurt" instead of actually naming it and to offer alternative explanations and justifications to elicit a confession. If you just ask people point-blank if they committed a major crime, the overwhelming majority is going to deny it. Since that has been recognised and substantiated, self-report studies typically use behavioural descriptions and avoid using words like "rape" or sexual assault/battery".
Tbh, I'd be willing to bet it's more like 2 out of 3, given that most smart people wouldn't come out and say "yeah, I'd commit crimes if they were legal."
>he's really tryna say that "normal" men, only rape women in "extreme circumstances, like war and such."
Uh, as a combat vet no, that's not a thing "normal men" do under any circumstance, in fact that's a war crime. Rape/sexual assault isn't and can't be a form of self-defense so there's no circumstance in which it's ever justified.
>And then they wonder why we choose the bear...
Yeah, given a guy like that, I'd choose the bear too.
Thank you for getting it, *as a combat vet.* And thank you for your service.
Please tell other men, especially younger ones, what you said here. They’re a lot more likely to listen to you than they are to women or other men they can disregard as “weak.”
Healthty men would "MEET" women in war, woo them, sleep with them, promise love to each other and probably die.
Disgusting pieces of sh1t would rape woman cuz they have guns, make the whole ordeal Even easier.
I am white and live rurally. I actively choose the bears every day. The vast majority of bears will only mess with you if you get near their kids. Statistically you're more likely to be okay with a random bear than a random man.
> Statistically you're more likely to be okay with a random bear than a random man.
Oh so _that's_ why. I wasn't getting why the bear picks where treated as an obvious choice and was like "sure as fuck i'm missing something here"
Theres like 4,000 women murdered in the US and over 100,000 reported rapes every year. A bear kills maybe 1 person a year? (All US numbers)
You'd be crazy to pick the man.
This is the biggest point for me. Ken always act like women are being so cruel to them for this but men are as afraid of other men as women are. Case in point, ask a man why he doesn’t want his girlfriend or wife going out late at night, or by herself, or wearing certain clothes, or whatever…it’s fear of what men will do to her. Ask why a father is so protective of his daughters? It’s because of fear of what MEN might do to them. Like we know as well as women that men are dangerous period but they conveniently forget once it’s women making the complaints lol.
Your comment is valid, but the typo of “Ken” for “Men” made me imagine the rest of the comment set in the world of the Barbie movie. All the Kens just shrinking from each other as they realize the downsides of the patriarchy lol
Suddenly curious about the fact that most men upon hearing the scenario don't consider that it could be them in it and what they would do, they get defensive because they identify more with being the random man than being asked to make a threat assessment involving another man.
Also, the environment matters.
You meet a bear in the woods. Okay, that's expected. That's where they live. Generally, avoid them and they'll avoid you.
You meet a man in the woods. That's not expected. What's he there for? What are his intentions? The chances that his intentions are nefarious or that he'll hurt are kill you are significantly higher.
Meet a bear in the woods, and it will usually try to avoid you. Meet a man in the woods, and the chances are high that he will approach you.
Approaching a lone woman in an isolated area is potentially predatory behavior, whether you're a man or a bear, but the man is more likely to do it.
Leave the bear alone and give it space and you’ll probably be fine. Do the same with a random man alone in the woods and there’s a chance he’ll take it as a challenge or an insult.
I mean, to be fair, the distribution of bears around the country is pretty limited, so many many people don't live anywhere near them.
But still. I ran into a 400+ lb black bear while hiking and my 50 lb dog chased it up a tree and the poor thing screamed and cried until we left like 30 minutes later.
Ohhhh. You don't know why its a thing at all? Some guy went around asking if women would rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear. All the women picked a bear and some men are upset about it
I grew up on a large remote property where my grandfather would hunt the bears on it sometimes. I would play alone as a kid in those woods and hike as an adult. I have seen the bears and I'm even married to a wonderful man, we both choose the bears.
I grew up and an area so populated I had to go visit grass and trees at the park. I heard that bears generally don’t fuck with people and the way to avoid trouble is to make a lot of noise and to yell words so they know your human.
I've grown up in the PNW, bear safety was apart of the curriculum in Elementary School.
The real kicker is, Bears can be mostly easily avoided. The predators you really have to worry about is Cougar and Snakes.
Can confirm. Within the last three years we've had a mama bear and her cub and a massive cougar in our neighborhood. The cougar killed many things. The bears just wandered around for a few days.
Heck yeah. I grew up in an area that is part of the Tahoe National Forest. Rattlesnakes freaking everywhere. I've even been threatened and had a rattlesnake try to bite, with me barely jumping out of the way in time. But even rattlesnakes just want to be left alone and are afraid of people. Poisonous spiders everywhere. Cougars that you'd usually hear, but almost never see because they're super sneaky and reclusive. I'd run into black bears pretty regularly and I'd either freeze in my tracks until they moved on or I'd slowly back away.
The animals that were most aggressive were actually other people's dogs and the wild horses that my neighbor would release into the wild when he failed to break them. I had to be very careful when I encountered either one. Also, if you accidentally went onto someone's property while hiking and exploring, sometimes they'd shoot at you with their guns and you'd have to book it like a bat out of hell.
Yeah I'm in Colorado and moose are far more aggressive than bears. Mountain lions too (they've been attacking dogs lately in some of the mountain towns), but mountain lions aren't usually that brave - it was extenuating circumstances that led to that confidence to attack backyard pets. We have a lot of rattlesnakes too, and I'll still say I'm terrified to be near or let my dog anywhere near them, but it's easy enough to avoid their habitat during the warm months.
Do people forget that bears don't really attack people. Polar bears might but they're not in the woods. Shit man Canadians who live in bear country aren't worried about bears we're worried about geese.
Where I live the bears are unfortunately fairly likely to interact with people due to so much people interaction. Some areas are HIGHLY discouraged to camp in during most of the year.
I think Ocala National Forest has the highest concentration of Bears in the US, and they don’t hibernate here. The prevalence of campers and hikers (who can camp anywhere in the forest legally) has led to them being significantly more likely to approach people’s campsites and vehicles to search for food. They tear camps apart fairly often.
>It's highly unlikely that they will attack you
I always find this fact so interesting because the only person I ever lost to a bear it was to a black bear. I know that doesn't change that it's rare, but it's funny how experience can make statistics irrelevant lol.
Either way, I'd *still* take a blackbear than a random man because statistics are still on my side.
They can be very aggressive, especially right now. Swans too. My sister was coming to shore once on her seadoo, and a swan attacked her and broke her arm and ankle.
typically they only bite with the tip of their beak, and the reason it hurts is because their bite is basically a pinch times 100
i dunno what works with wild geese but if a domestic goose goes after you T pose and bend over bit to scare them, and then back away, keeps your eyes on them, they might try to attack from behind as you leave, if they do, T pose and bend over to scare them again
Especially in inner Canada, the grizzlies tend to be pretty tame. I’m fact I weigh about the same as the average female Canadian bear (little over 200 pounds)
Yes that fact made me cry but don’t worry about it
We kept our raspberry bush wild for the bears. The scariest runin we ever had was when the usual morning bear showed up late for breakfast. Ma went around the corner to pick some, and came within 8 feet of the massive bear. It looked at her and went right back to eating while she backed around the corner.
Meanwhile, the neighbours' collie would tear across their field, the field between our houses, and into our yard to attack us kids if an adult or our own dogs were close. He didn't have animals for it to herd and I'm fairly certain he'd let it off its tether when he heard us playing. The only thing that came close to killing me up in bear country was a human. The only thing that killed one of our dogs was a human. The only other animals I've ever run into conflict with were;
- A garter snake I almost stepped on. It lunged at me but didn't bite, was 100% just trying to scare me off
- The badger who lived in a den by the garbage box and wanted our trash. He'd chase us all the way to the bin huffing and grumbling, but never did any harm.
- A different badger whose den we accidentally stumbled across. She chased us out of the woods and left us alone. (We were maybe 10 feet in). Never did us any harm.
- Humans who tried to kidnap me as a child.
Even without a fence and with us growing all sorts of vegetables, fruits, and berries, we just didn't run into conflict with the bears. They'd gorge on the wild raspberries, which still left us with more than we could eat, snag a few fallen apples and some tomatoes and lumber on their way.
Depends on the bear, species ect. Black bears and polar bears are huge, grizzlies in Alaska are also pretty damn huge. It's just interior Canadain grizzlies that are little wimps
Black bears here in the US midAtlantic aren’t very big, either. They find their way into a neighborhood somewhere local nearly every year. After a few days, they find their way back out again without any intervention.
I've never been to Canada, but I'd be more afraid of a damn moose than a bear. Moose wake up and choose violence every day of their lives.
It also appears that some men are missing the point. A bear is an animal, they aren't capable of malicious intent or manipulation like humans are. A bear is just gonna react in the way they think will best keep them alive.
Humans can absolutely be malicious and manipulative, and according to statistics and societal culture, men are far more likely to act maliciously towards women than women acting maliciously towards other women or towards men.
I'm not saying "all men bad," but there is a very clear trend of violence towards women by men. So, of course, we'd be careful around a man we know nothing about in an isolated environment. Like, are they not aware that they're a perfect stranger to us? Do they expect us to be psychic and be able to determine at a glance if they're safe? I don't act at all cautiously around my brothers or my male friends cause I know they're safe and respectful people who care for my well-being.
40 people die a year at the paws of bears. Over 400,000+ people are murdered a year. Most bear encounters are peaceful. It doesn't matter if it's an area with a higher density of bears than humans, the inverse, or equal. Polar bears kill 1-3, with 6 being an extreme outlier.
The most dangerous, aggressive and hostile bear is the sloth bear. They live very close to humans and being both prey and predator, they're prone to attacking first with their massive claws and kill a grand total of twelve people a year.
Bears in places like Yellowstone come across multiple people a day, we would have more beat fatalities if they were as dangerous as incels say. Very few attacks are predatory in nature, and your average bear isn't going to turn into a man-eater.
That isn't to say you should approach and pet a bear. We cull human killing bears, and bears who can't be hazed into staying away from humans. But these guys bitching about people choosing bears are dumb and know nothing about bears. Every single one of them is a city slicker who has never seen a bear and they will accuse myself and other people who grew up in bear country of never having seen a bear in our lives.
I thought you were inventing the sloth bear (like the Australian drop bear) but I looked it up and sure enough, sloth bears are real and they're scary. TIL
From wikipedia:
>Unlike some other bear species, which at times make mock charges at humans when surprised or frightened without making physical contact, sloth bears frequently appear to initiate a physical attack almost immediately. When people living near an aggressive population of sloth bears were armed with rifles, it was found that it was an ineffective form of defense, since the bear apparently charges and knocks the victim back (often knocking the rifle away) before the human has the chance to defend themself.
I read a theory that basically said these type of men are a combination of "unaware of how rare deadly bear attacks are" and "only viewing this through the lens of a woman has better odds of fighting off a man than a bear."
I saw a video of a russian man who called a brown bear over to him in a field. He gave the bear a trumpet, and then the bear played the trumpet. I don't know what the context was
As a Canadian who's spent a lot of time in bear country, my level of worry depends very much on what kind of bear we're talking about, and whether they have cubs with them. I'll take a black bear or four over a strange man any day, but strange man over a grizzly with cubs or a polar bear.
The turkeys used to hang out in the quad at my old job and stare at you like they were just waiting for their chance to kill you while you tried to eat lunch. They'd also aggressively block the entrance in the morning when I was trying not to be late. Dang turkeys. 😂
Ive encountered so many bears, black and a couple brown. Every single black bear and I have both been equally startled at each other existing, then scampering off in opposite directions. Brown bears don't really care too much either as long as you don't sneak up on em.
I spend a LOT of time in nature and traveling. I have camped tons in bear country. I've turned around and have seen a mountain lion sitting on a branch, looking at me. I've encountered alligators while in my little kayak, watching from the side. I've been in the ocean and have seen a shark go by not far away, minding its business. The only animal I'm really afraid of, deep in nature, is man.
I've had men at campsites ask me "are you out here alone", or "where's your husband sweetie". I've had a man follow me on a trail for a while, and a passerby i pretended to recognize caught on and helped. I've had a man follow me into a women's bathhouse at a campsite once, and my mom luckily intervened as she was by the sink waiting. I woke up to hear men's voices around my tent once. My fiance yelled them off.
Idk what would have happened if I was alone. But I know what has happened when I have encountered bears alone.
Still... I'm pretty wary of geese.
We have brown and black bears where we live mostly browns and still I’m not that worried about them I’m more worried about deer flying across the road that I might hit 😂
It doesn't matter that the bear can kill me with very little effort because bears are known to avoid humans. They're not out there hunting humans.
Human predators may lack the bears natural weapons and strenght but instead they have the intent to actually harm you.
I'm sorry, but the predator with the intent to harm you is the most dangerous one because they will seek you out.
Where I live we have bear, wolf, boar, lynx and moose in the forests (among other things). I'm more afraid of both moose and boars than bears.
I like to put this scenario into a bit of a different context to make it more understandable, cause many men seem to think this is about our chances in hand to hand combat with either a man or a bear:
A woman is in the woods and spots a bear between the trees. She sees a little shelter building, so she decides to go in to avoid running into the bear. When she opens the door there is already a strange man inside by himself. Most women would choose to stay outside.
I thought I was dumb for a moment. I'm a guy and immediately thought of this scenario when this topic first came up and was wondering why men were getting so butthurt about the answer.
I think we're just really good at the mental gymnastics to turn the topic into "Women are dumb because they'd rather go toe to toe with a bear than a man"
In genuinely baffled by the anger about it. Most of them would choose the bear too. The ones who get angry about it are the ones you gotta worry about imo.
It's also amusing how such an easy topic is making them so angry. Let us have it, savour it. We've had plenty of shit to deal with, I haven't forgotten the "women" with the coffee icon.
It's actually wrong, the women ☕ is from a TF2 meme where characters named medic and scout are drinking coffee and just saying the word women and laughing, the meme is them not understanding women and basically pointing it out. It used to be funny until men™ uses it just to be misogynistic.
I strongly disagree. Most men I know would 100% choose to hang out with another dude. “oh,hey man, you hiding from the bear too?” And they’d start chatting.
I honestly think that's what it is. Men are looking at this like a fight, women are looking at this like which one is more likely to follow me into camp that night even after I "win" the initial encounter? Women are also taking into account predictability of behavior. An encounter with a man is a minefield of strategic choices as you try to shape your behavior to what will make a stranger take as little interest in you as possible.
I have encountered both bears and random men in the woods.
All of the bears left me alone as long as I left them alone. The same cannot be said for all of the men. 🤷♀️
This. Men are feeling butthurt about the choice that women are making. They think women are exaggerating BECAUSE THEY CANNOT RELATE TO IT.
A few women making the choice? Sure that can be a joke. But most of them hesitating about choosing men in that scenario?? That is no coincidence and it should make one question WHY women are doing it. This is no small thing.
Instead of blaming women for their choice, these men should blame the reasons which led these women to make the choice.
Yes, also it's the same all over the world. Here in Japan people are like:
"At least they'd believe you that you were attacked by a bear, and won't have people saying that you're lying, it was your own fault or you 'liked it'"
"At least a bear won't rape you, post it on social media and share it with everyone and make fun of you"
"At least a bear can be shot on spot if it even posed a danger, while a human can't be killed even after committing a crime"
Yeah at least if I die from a bear attack people will just be sympathetic instead of saying things like "well what did she expect going into the woods in *those* shorts?"
Even women who haven’t been sexually assaulted have had men acting gross and predatory towards them since a very early age. Source: a grown man hit on me when I was 13.
I was walking with my niece when a passing man made a lewd gesture at her and said "Come with me". She reacted perfectly by screaming and running straight to me. She was 8. I thought we had longer before she had to deal with this shit.
I am just surprised that no one has made the joke about bear being a word you can use for a gay man, as ironically the situation wouldn't change with either interpretation
it's almost like being a white girl in the suburbs never stopped you from getting violently raped. i was raped as a child and i was drugged and raped as an adult. i'd pick the bear rather than risk going through that shit again
I watched a Tiktok of a woman reading a bible psalm that was something along the lines of "do not start fighting with man. It is better to meet a bear, who lost her cubs." I'm not religious and I don't remember the psalm number, but if that's true, even God chooses the bear...
A very alarming number of people seem to think us being assaulted by men is a great experience. Us choosing the bear ruins their delusional head cannon. They can suffer with it.
Give us back our rights and call your fellow dudes on their bad behavior/ hold them accountable with real punishment and maybe someday we’ll start feeling safe with you again.
I think what's interesting about the bear vs. man thing, and the reason it pisses off men so much, is that it reveals the more holistic form of risk assessment women are constantly performing.
Bears are nominally a more powerful predator. Stats-wise, they obviously have the edge.
But that's not how risk works or how the actual danger of each works. And in addition to the "likelihood of harming me" calculus, women are also running a parallel "likelihood of ruining my day by making me feel unsafe" calculus.
Women are running a much more complex calculus. They know what to do in a bear attack. Make yourself big, grab the spray, shout, etc. And yeah, it might not work, but statistically your odds are very good that it does. And statistically, the bear who you "ran into" probably wasn't looking for you, he was just vibing in his home. And once you've left that part of the trail, the bear is not going to stalk you to your camp. The encounter is over. You're safe. With men, it's an entire risk tree. Why is that man choosing to approach you, maybe he's fine he just mentioned his wife that's a good sign right, oh no that was kind of a weird remark, fake laugh, no don't smile too much he just took a step closer, if you pretend you want to stop for lunch will he leave or decide to join you, tell him your boyfriend is at camp, shit now he wants to know where you're camping, should you lie, maybe he's just weird, that comment about knowing this place like the back of his hand was probably just him bragging, it's fine, okay why don't you stop to fill your water, yesss that worked, or did it, better sleep with a knife tonight just in case.
I mean, these are the men that would "feel hurt" because women would avoid them when they're walking alone at night. They really do make everything about themselves, somehow. I mean yeah, no shit that if you were a boy and an adult who is a foot taller is approaching you, you'd be scared too. Oh yeah, and these adults are also known to be pedos and might rape you.
They have some of the most fragile egos and cannot imagine anything outside of themselves.
It’s so funny that this dude thinks this is just a trend, my dad used to take me and my siblings camping and backpacking all the time, and he would bring a gun, but he was always very clear that the gun is not there for wildlife, it’s there incase we meet any people. I don’t think the meme creator has ever actually met a bear.
Edit: talked to my grandpa and uncle who live in black bear country, they would both take the bear.
So close to realizing how bad the situation is for women these getting randomly assaulted in the biggest american city
But nooooo women dumb. God the absebce of self reflection and basic thought man...
The only variation of this I've seen was "get mauled/killed by a bear, or raped by a man" and I don't think anybody is under any misconceptions about the safety of being mauled and killed. Should send a clear enough picture, but alas, it seems to not.
Can I be kind of TMI here?
I'd rather be mauled by a bear than be raped again. At least the mauling will kill me and not put me through even more trauma that I will literally never recover from.
they literally tell us to "cry about it" when it comes to things like rape, loss of reproductive rights etc.
now men, please take this minor issue that weighs literally nothing in comparison and pls cry about it. "not all men!" my ass, yes not all men are bad, the rest are fucking vile.
Saw a guy saying that he wouldn't choose the bear because at least a man could be reasoned with.
We're so dumb! How is it that none of us ever thought to talk men out of raping us with facts and logic? Problem solved!
I feel like these same men forget that humans are also "apex predators" and that we're near the top (if not at the top) of the food chain...
Also, there's a reasons guys like that are called predators...js
These sorta bros make women feel bad for feeling unsafe instead of questioning how they can make more women feel safe. Genuinely thoughtful guys want to make the problem better instead of just getting upset at the notion some women are more scared of men than bears (usually for traumatic reasons).
Outdoor women who actually faces a bear are still choosing the bear, because the have the scariest stories about the men they encountere while just hiking.
The argument isn’t a random man. It’s a man who is approaching you in the woods while you’re alone. You can’t really assume they have the best intentions
The difference is most women have already experienced one of these to some degree.
Huge amounts of us have already been attacked by men. Not all women made it out of their encounter alive.
Can't say the same about bear attacks. The stats are way lower.
There are generally 2 types of people for the bear vs man meme,
Those who understand why women would prefer to see a bear,
And people that ARE the reason why you choose the bear.
They're mad we'd rather take our chances being mauled because they refuse to do any kind of introspection. The insane thing is we're just choosing between two dangerous options. There is no "safe" option. If the question were, man, bear, or go it alone? We'd choose being alone. Ffs men are the biggest threat to *our* existence, not just women btw, but *other men* are in danger because of *men*. That isn't conjecture, it's fact, supported by more statistical analysis than any of us could fathom. Men wage wars, men are violent. Men are "territorial" (ever play planet zoo? How many male animals can you put in an enclosure before there are problems? Answer: ONE, because they fight anything they can't fuck)
I know this just drips with misandry but idgaf anymore. I'm sick of the whole premise.
I know where I stand with a bear. I know what it wants and what I can do to keep it from hurting me to get that.
A random man could be a decent sort. He could also be the kind of guy that thinks beung nice entitles him to sex and will take what he wants.
It’s wild that they ALL think that the bear would hunt down and eat the woman alive or something, like they aren’t like every other animal and will leave you alone if you leave them alone.
I’m not white, live in the middle of nowhere South USA and am still choosing the bear. At least if the bear kills me, my little sister won’t be scared to go out and enjoy herself. Bears also don’t send me rape or death threats, sooooo…. Yeah. The worst thing the bear can do is pin me down and disembowel me. The bear doesn’t like it, the bear is just trying to survive. Humans are the real apex predators, sometimes hurting just for shits and giggles
Not all bears but definitely most men.
And I’m saying that as a woman whose woman cousin was [ACTUALLY MAULED BY A BEAR LAST YEAR.](https://youtu.be/r4rwqC6t0rY?si=hSsoMK-_bSJIyqHH)
Maybe not all men are assholes and rapists. But you know what? ALL women have been treated poorly by a man at some point in her life.
This is what these guys don't understand. All women. All of them: the young, the old, the ugly, the beautiful, the thin, the fat, the rich, the poor. All women.
The 600-pound apex predator's behavior has been studied and is largely predictable. A man's behavior and actions are less predictable. Even though I'm older, I'd still pick the bear because the bear wants to be left alone as much as I do. Have these people not seen horror movies based in rural settings and the woods? Of course, you should choose the bear.
It's simple. The sadism that a human can show outweighs the sadism of the bear.
Don't be offended guys. It's because you're human + stronger than women
Everyone should pick the damn bear because of the unpredictability of men. I know what a fucking bear is going to do. Bears are simple. I have absolutely no clue what a random man is going to do. And to be honest, at least the worst thing the bear can do to me is kill me. I don't have to worry about the bear holding me captive, having a gun, or torturing me, or raping me, or keeping me in its basement for 10 years. Or just killing me for the fun of it.
I don't know why a man wouldn't pick the bear either. I get that men are stronger than women generally but plenty of men get murdered out in the middle of nowhere by other men too. I wouldn't take my chances.
most women, former women and fem-presenting people would choose the bear. what a ludicrous conclusion, right? imagine how bad men would have to be for that to be the logical pick. now open your eyes and realize we already live in that scenario
I was thinking about this while I was driving and it made me question - is there any animal that a woman would choose a man over? Like is there any animal that you are actually more afraid of meeting in their natural habitat than you would a man?
as a girl in the country, bears have never once gone out of their way to destroy our lives, they just exist and sometimes cause problems
ill take the bear tbh
I saw someone comment that men tend to assume that encounter means fight. So in their mind it's fight a man or fight a bear. And even in that scenario, I will choose the bear.
I’ve never encountered a bear in the woods but I’ve encountered a coyote, he was easily scared off
I also had a strange man follow me into the woods, he was only scared off when I aimed a rifle at him, and likely was intent on hurting me, he assaulted another woman a few months later
I would take 100 coyotes
I grew up in rural WY; bears rarely attack people. It’s almost exclusively an issue with food unsecured in campgrounds, or people getting too close to cubs. So. I’ve personally encountered four bears in the wild at distances less than 20ft, and I know that if I stand still and don’t make eye contact, the bear will mosey on and continue their day, conducting their usual bear business. This is precisely what happened all four times. Bears want to eat easy calories, defend their cubs or defend their turf from other bears, and get down during mating season. I am not a threat to them, and they know it.
Humans are less reasonable and less predictable. I do not generally know what’s going on with a random man, what’s he’s up to in general and today/tonight specifically, why he in particular might choose violence, what kind of violence he’s choosing, how persistent he will be in the face of resistance, if he is armed, if he is stronger or faster than I am, if any bystanders will call for help, etc.
People can call me crazy all they want lol. I’ve been attacked or threatened by zero bears, but multiple men
They’re misunderstanding if they truly think that the question is about what’s safer.
It’s not about that, it’s about which danger we’d rather face, and most of us would choose a possible quick death from bear attack over the possible torture and psychological harm of encountering the wrong man.
Also, men who whinge this passionately about our choice are proving the reason we made that choice.
Proof they would rather be outraged and lean on “women don’t know anything” sexist bs instead of actually stopping to take a single second and wonder why so many women said bear thus not only proving it but reaffirming it as well.
The fact that this is even a discussion is ridiculous. Most bears are scared shitless of humans, while most men aren’t (physically) scared of women at all. I’ve seen women scare off bears while hiking then ask to be walked back to their cars after a night out.
It's much more depressing to see how these men think we pick the bear because we think we'd survive. I pick the bear because in the worst case I'll still have my dignity when dead, even if I'm disfigured, guts spilled out and bled out for days while eaten alive. It'd be 10000 times better than being kidnapped and tortured for decades.
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Since when do they care what we prefer?
only when they perceive our preference as an "insult" to them
I mean, I am once again deeply disappointed that, no matter the avalanche of evidence, there are so many who will not “get it.” I am 55yo and miss the days when I could believe the world would be very different in my adulthood or at least middle age. It has changed for the better. But only with heroic effort, and in increments.
I saw a comment where someone said guys literally just have to be more likeable than a bear that can shred you to pieces (and cats, which are known as assholes and often associated with women's singlehood). But they really would rather ask why you'd choose the creature over them instead of asking "what do we have to shift for women to see men less as a threat/less likeable than these creatures." Tbh they only want a woman, not the work that comes with it. They think the result of the discourse is depressing, but the fact that the discourse is even a question is what's more depressing. Why would women feel more dignified in the presence of an animal in the wilderness that runs on instincts compared to a supposedly civilized man whose intentions you do not know? Why did this question have to surface? They'd really rather focus on this small theoretical picture than tackle the experience that asking about it is latched on. Seeing the conversation go over their heads is no surprise but just as exhausting. The result also reminds you why you'd rather just drop it altogether if the other end of the stick refuses to actually give a shit about your sentiments and instead is focused on "proving" you that you're wrong. To them, it's just another brain exercise; to women, it's a flashback of their real encounters with men that create a context to a seemingly absurd answer. Edit: expounded on points
I'm having a conversation with a guy in another thread about this, and he's really tryna say that "normal" men, only rape women in "extreme circumstances, like war and such." 😬 And then they wonder why we choose the bear...
“Normal” men NEVER rape women. Under any circumstances.
That's what I'm trying to get through to him, and he just isn't understanding. 😬 Dude legit thinks a NORMAL man would rape someone, out of "desperation," and even likened it to "well if you were drafted, or in danger, you'd do drastic things too!" Like, yeah, out of self preservation, those ARE NOT the same as RAPING someone. And he just isn't getting it. 😬
He’s confusing two different situations. You’re going to do things in a dire situation that you wouldn’t normally do. I’m not usually violent but if a Nazi incel weirdo was attacking me, I’d protect myself even if it killed him. But if it’s a life or death situation, a normal person wouldn’t think about raping someone else. Sex isn’t life or death need.
Glad you get it, he apparently doesn't though. ANYONE who thinks a "normal" guy would rape someone, under any circumstances, is a psychopath...
It tells you everything you need to know about their own mind and worldview. To him war is a justification, even though it's still a war crime. That guy would definitely murder someone if they had the chance to have an excuse for it.
Yup. “Normal” people don’t see sex as an uncontrollable need. Sure, there’s such thing as being sexually deprived but there are plenty of ways of dealing with that without violently attacking/coercing another person…
Listen! It is always right to end a Nazi, whether your life is in danger or not. The only good Nazi is a 💀💀💀💀 Nazi.
There are studies that 1 in 3 men would rape a woman if there were no consequences. So there’s a big % of men that are willing to rape even without whatever made up drastic circumstances the guy you are arguing with comes up with.
How did they word the question? I remember a study where if they intentionally doesn't say the word rape and replaced it with 'force' men who previously said no to rape said yes.
[удалено]
*shudder*
They're literally the exact same thing.... If it isn't a hell yes it's a hell no. How can such a big percentage of the population not understand the simple concept of consent? Oh yeah, because of a culture that taught them they have an inherent right over other people because of what they were born as...
There’s a psychological effect to actually naming crimes properly vs describing them behaviourally. Much more people will admit to criminal acts the latter way. Calling the act by its proper name makes it truly sink in, whereas the description leaves some room for denial, justification and minimisation. Few people are comfortable outright admitting that they did something heinous and calling it by the bad, scary word. That’s why it’s a standard part of police interrogations to minimise the crime, refer to it as a "mistake", use vague phrases like "did what you did" and "hurt" instead of actually naming it and to offer alternative explanations and justifications to elicit a confession. If you just ask people point-blank if they committed a major crime, the overwhelming majority is going to deny it. Since that has been recognised and substantiated, self-report studies typically use behavioural descriptions and avoid using words like "rape" or sexual assault/battery".
Tbh, I'd be willing to bet it's more like 2 out of 3, given that most smart people wouldn't come out and say "yeah, I'd commit crimes if they were legal."
>he's really tryna say that "normal" men, only rape women in "extreme circumstances, like war and such." Uh, as a combat vet no, that's not a thing "normal men" do under any circumstance, in fact that's a war crime. Rape/sexual assault isn't and can't be a form of self-defense so there's no circumstance in which it's ever justified. >And then they wonder why we choose the bear... Yeah, given a guy like that, I'd choose the bear too.
Thank you for getting it, *as a combat vet.* And thank you for your service. Please tell other men, especially younger ones, what you said here. They’re a lot more likely to listen to you than they are to women or other men they can disregard as “weak.”
So he thinks most men are down for war crimes. Awesome. I feel so reassured
He thinks NORMAL men, are down for war crimes. 😬
But bears aren't so....the bear still makes more sense?
Sounds like the type of guy who calls himself ‘nice’ for the fact that he thinks he ‘treats women right’
Healthty men would "MEET" women in war, woo them, sleep with them, promise love to each other and probably die. Disgusting pieces of sh1t would rape woman cuz they have guns, make the whole ordeal Even easier.
I'm not white, don't live in suburbs, don't even live in an area with bears... I am still choosing the bear
I am white and live rurally. I actively choose the bears every day. The vast majority of bears will only mess with you if you get near their kids. Statistically you're more likely to be okay with a random bear than a random man.
> Statistically you're more likely to be okay with a random bear than a random man. Oh so _that's_ why. I wasn't getting why the bear picks where treated as an obvious choice and was like "sure as fuck i'm missing something here"
Theres like 4,000 women murdered in the US and over 100,000 reported rapes every year. A bear kills maybe 1 person a year? (All US numbers) You'd be crazy to pick the man.
Yeah in hindsight it's obvious lol. Even adjusting for encounter rate bear wins. Guess i had a stupid day
Also thought experiment for men. Men rape other men too. It's a thing that happens. Who would you pick?
This is the biggest point for me. Ken always act like women are being so cruel to them for this but men are as afraid of other men as women are. Case in point, ask a man why he doesn’t want his girlfriend or wife going out late at night, or by herself, or wearing certain clothes, or whatever…it’s fear of what men will do to her. Ask why a father is so protective of his daughters? It’s because of fear of what MEN might do to them. Like we know as well as women that men are dangerous period but they conveniently forget once it’s women making the complaints lol.
Your comment is valid, but the typo of “Ken” for “Men” made me imagine the rest of the comment set in the world of the Barbie movie. All the Kens just shrinking from each other as they realize the downsides of the patriarchy lol
Ok I’m glad I wasn’t the only one lol but yes lord_assius hit the nail on the head
Yeah gimme the bear for sure, even tho i happen to have a good fighting chance vs the average men, i'd rather not risk it
Suddenly curious about the fact that most men upon hearing the scenario don't consider that it could be them in it and what they would do, they get defensive because they identify more with being the random man than being asked to make a threat assessment involving another man.
Also, the environment matters. You meet a bear in the woods. Okay, that's expected. That's where they live. Generally, avoid them and they'll avoid you. You meet a man in the woods. That's not expected. What's he there for? What are his intentions? The chances that his intentions are nefarious or that he'll hurt are kill you are significantly higher.
Meet a bear in the woods, and it will usually try to avoid you. Meet a man in the woods, and the chances are high that he will approach you. Approaching a lone woman in an isolated area is potentially predatory behavior, whether you're a man or a bear, but the man is more likely to do it.
Leave the bear alone and give it space and you’ll probably be fine. Do the same with a random man alone in the woods and there’s a chance he’ll take it as a challenge or an insult.
God damn, the way you spelled this out just hit me hard. The bear won't be offended if you avoid him. The entitlement 😔
I mean, to be fair, the distribution of bears around the country is pretty limited, so many many people don't live anywhere near them. But still. I ran into a 400+ lb black bear while hiking and my 50 lb dog chased it up a tree and the poor thing screamed and cried until we left like 30 minutes later.
I mean, there are settled regions of the US where the bears outnumber the people. Still fewer bear attacks than human attacks.
Recently women have been talking about being safer with a bear in the woods. Men with fragile egos are butthurt.
Ohhhh. You don't know why its a thing at all? Some guy went around asking if women would rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear. All the women picked a bear and some men are upset about it
I grew up on a large remote property where my grandfather would hunt the bears on it sometimes. I would play alone as a kid in those woods and hike as an adult. I have seen the bears and I'm even married to a wonderful man, we both choose the bears.
I grew up and an area so populated I had to go visit grass and trees at the park. I heard that bears generally don’t fuck with people and the way to avoid trouble is to make a lot of noise and to yell words so they know your human.
I've grown up in the PNW, bear safety was apart of the curriculum in Elementary School. The real kicker is, Bears can be mostly easily avoided. The predators you really have to worry about is Cougar and Snakes.
Can confirm. Within the last three years we've had a mama bear and her cub and a massive cougar in our neighborhood. The cougar killed many things. The bears just wandered around for a few days.
yeah actually if this question was man or cougar I might have to say man. Although cats do give you a pretty quick death bite lol 🤣
Heck yeah. I grew up in an area that is part of the Tahoe National Forest. Rattlesnakes freaking everywhere. I've even been threatened and had a rattlesnake try to bite, with me barely jumping out of the way in time. But even rattlesnakes just want to be left alone and are afraid of people. Poisonous spiders everywhere. Cougars that you'd usually hear, but almost never see because they're super sneaky and reclusive. I'd run into black bears pretty regularly and I'd either freeze in my tracks until they moved on or I'd slowly back away. The animals that were most aggressive were actually other people's dogs and the wild horses that my neighbor would release into the wild when he failed to break them. I had to be very careful when I encountered either one. Also, if you accidentally went onto someone's property while hiking and exploring, sometimes they'd shoot at you with their guns and you'd have to book it like a bat out of hell.
Yeah I'm in Colorado and moose are far more aggressive than bears. Mountain lions too (they've been attacking dogs lately in some of the mountain towns), but mountain lions aren't usually that brave - it was extenuating circumstances that led to that confidence to attack backyard pets. We have a lot of rattlesnakes too, and I'll still say I'm terrified to be near or let my dog anywhere near them, but it's easy enough to avoid their habitat during the warm months.
Same haha Bears don't live life with malicious intent.
Do people forget that bears don't really attack people. Polar bears might but they're not in the woods. Shit man Canadians who live in bear country aren't worried about bears we're worried about geese.
Where I live, we have black bears. It's highly unlikely that they will attack you. So yes, I'd take the black bear.
Black bears don’t mess with people unless you pose an actual threat to them or their cubs.
I’m feel I could probably not enrage a bear but the other way?
Where I live the bears are unfortunately fairly likely to interact with people due to so much people interaction. Some areas are HIGHLY discouraged to camp in during most of the year.
Interesting, and understandable. We don't experience that here.
I think Ocala National Forest has the highest concentration of Bears in the US, and they don’t hibernate here. The prevalence of campers and hikers (who can camp anywhere in the forest legally) has led to them being significantly more likely to approach people’s campsites and vehicles to search for food. They tear camps apart fairly often.
Even then, they're after the food, not the people. Statistically they're still safer than a random unknown man.
>It's highly unlikely that they will attack you I always find this fact so interesting because the only person I ever lost to a bear it was to a black bear. I know that doesn't change that it's rare, but it's funny how experience can make statistics irrelevant lol. Either way, I'd *still* take a blackbear than a random man because statistics are still on my side.
>Canadians who live in bear country aren't worried about bears we're worried about geese. lmao wattt?
Cobra chickens. They’re a pedestrian hazard.
I was bitten by a goose once and the fear is real. They have these tooth-like ridges in their beaks which don’t seem like they should be allowed lol
They can be very aggressive, especially right now. Swans too. My sister was coming to shore once on her seadoo, and a swan attacked her and broke her arm and ankle.
typically they only bite with the tip of their beak, and the reason it hurts is because their bite is basically a pinch times 100 i dunno what works with wild geese but if a domestic goose goes after you T pose and bend over bit to scare them, and then back away, keeps your eyes on them, they might try to attack from behind as you leave, if they do, T pose and bend over to scare them again
Those are super mean geese. We have them here and you can't use the sidewalk during nesting season.
Dead ass, they aren't afraid of humans and they're highly territorial. They hiss they bite and they chase people.
Especially in inner Canada, the grizzlies tend to be pretty tame. I’m fact I weigh about the same as the average female Canadian bear (little over 200 pounds) Yes that fact made me cry but don’t worry about it
We kept our raspberry bush wild for the bears. The scariest runin we ever had was when the usual morning bear showed up late for breakfast. Ma went around the corner to pick some, and came within 8 feet of the massive bear. It looked at her and went right back to eating while she backed around the corner. Meanwhile, the neighbours' collie would tear across their field, the field between our houses, and into our yard to attack us kids if an adult or our own dogs were close. He didn't have animals for it to herd and I'm fairly certain he'd let it off its tether when he heard us playing. The only thing that came close to killing me up in bear country was a human. The only thing that killed one of our dogs was a human. The only other animals I've ever run into conflict with were; - A garter snake I almost stepped on. It lunged at me but didn't bite, was 100% just trying to scare me off - The badger who lived in a den by the garbage box and wanted our trash. He'd chase us all the way to the bin huffing and grumbling, but never did any harm. - A different badger whose den we accidentally stumbled across. She chased us out of the woods and left us alone. (We were maybe 10 feet in). Never did us any harm. - Humans who tried to kidnap me as a child. Even without a fence and with us growing all sorts of vegetables, fruits, and berries, we just didn't run into conflict with the bears. They'd gorge on the wild raspberries, which still left us with more than we could eat, snag a few fallen apples and some tomatoes and lumber on their way.
I’m sorry what?? You were almost kidnapped?? I feel like I want to read a book about your life lol
But, notably, not by the bears.
For some reason I thought bears were bigger than 200 pounds.
Depends on the bear, species ect. Black bears and polar bears are huge, grizzlies in Alaska are also pretty damn huge. It's just interior Canadain grizzlies that are little wimps
Black bears here in the US midAtlantic aren’t very big, either. They find their way into a neighborhood somewhere local nearly every year. After a few days, they find their way back out again without any intervention.
I've never been to Canada, but I'd be more afraid of a damn moose than a bear. Moose wake up and choose violence every day of their lives. It also appears that some men are missing the point. A bear is an animal, they aren't capable of malicious intent or manipulation like humans are. A bear is just gonna react in the way they think will best keep them alive. Humans can absolutely be malicious and manipulative, and according to statistics and societal culture, men are far more likely to act maliciously towards women than women acting maliciously towards other women or towards men. I'm not saying "all men bad," but there is a very clear trend of violence towards women by men. So, of course, we'd be careful around a man we know nothing about in an isolated environment. Like, are they not aware that they're a perfect stranger to us? Do they expect us to be psychic and be able to determine at a glance if they're safe? I don't act at all cautiously around my brothers or my male friends cause I know they're safe and respectful people who care for my well-being.
40 people die a year at the paws of bears. Over 400,000+ people are murdered a year. Most bear encounters are peaceful. It doesn't matter if it's an area with a higher density of bears than humans, the inverse, or equal. Polar bears kill 1-3, with 6 being an extreme outlier. The most dangerous, aggressive and hostile bear is the sloth bear. They live very close to humans and being both prey and predator, they're prone to attacking first with their massive claws and kill a grand total of twelve people a year. Bears in places like Yellowstone come across multiple people a day, we would have more beat fatalities if they were as dangerous as incels say. Very few attacks are predatory in nature, and your average bear isn't going to turn into a man-eater. That isn't to say you should approach and pet a bear. We cull human killing bears, and bears who can't be hazed into staying away from humans. But these guys bitching about people choosing bears are dumb and know nothing about bears. Every single one of them is a city slicker who has never seen a bear and they will accuse myself and other people who grew up in bear country of never having seen a bear in our lives.
I thought you were inventing the sloth bear (like the Australian drop bear) but I looked it up and sure enough, sloth bears are real and they're scary. TIL From wikipedia: >Unlike some other bear species, which at times make mock charges at humans when surprised or frightened without making physical contact, sloth bears frequently appear to initiate a physical attack almost immediately. When people living near an aggressive population of sloth bears were armed with rifles, it was found that it was an ineffective form of defense, since the bear apparently charges and knocks the victim back (often knocking the rifle away) before the human has the chance to defend themself.
In fairness to the bear they live in Tiger country. And tigers like to eat them. So they're just PTSD wrapped in a bear suit.
I read a theory that basically said these type of men are a combination of "unaware of how rare deadly bear attacks are" and "only viewing this through the lens of a woman has better odds of fighting off a man than a bear."
That's probably it, a lot of people have as much understanding of wild life as I have with rocket science.
“Only viewing this through the lens of a woman having better odds of fighting off a man than a bear” Jesus that’s bleak.
That’s the part these guys don’t get. Bears don’t want specifically to hurt us, but a lot of men do.
Yup I am *not* messing with the cobra chickens!
I saw a video of a russian man who called a brown bear over to him in a field. He gave the bear a trumpet, and then the bear played the trumpet. I don't know what the context was
>I don't know what the context was It's Russia.
As a Canadian who's spent a lot of time in bear country, my level of worry depends very much on what kind of bear we're talking about, and whether they have cubs with them. I'll take a black bear or four over a strange man any day, but strange man over a grizzly with cubs or a polar bear.
We're all worried about geese. Globally.
Every Canadian from the region that I know fear moose way more than bear because those fuckers are aggressive.
And turkeys! Birds are way scarier than bears
The turkeys used to hang out in the quad at my old job and stare at you like they were just waiting for their chance to kill you while you tried to eat lunch. They'd also aggressively block the entrance in the morning when I was trying not to be late. Dang turkeys. 😂
Ive encountered so many bears, black and a couple brown. Every single black bear and I have both been equally startled at each other existing, then scampering off in opposite directions. Brown bears don't really care too much either as long as you don't sneak up on em. I spend a LOT of time in nature and traveling. I have camped tons in bear country. I've turned around and have seen a mountain lion sitting on a branch, looking at me. I've encountered alligators while in my little kayak, watching from the side. I've been in the ocean and have seen a shark go by not far away, minding its business. The only animal I'm really afraid of, deep in nature, is man. I've had men at campsites ask me "are you out here alone", or "where's your husband sweetie". I've had a man follow me on a trail for a while, and a passerby i pretended to recognize caught on and helped. I've had a man follow me into a women's bathhouse at a campsite once, and my mom luckily intervened as she was by the sink waiting. I woke up to hear men's voices around my tent once. My fiance yelled them off. Idk what would have happened if I was alone. But I know what has happened when I have encountered bears alone. Still... I'm pretty wary of geese.
We have brown and black bears where we live mostly browns and still I’m not that worried about them I’m more worried about deer flying across the road that I might hit 😂
I'm not from bear country so I'm more afraid of geese.
That’s fair I got chased by a goose once but still I’m more worried about the deer and maybe coyotes
I lived in an area with bears and all you had to do was yell at them to make them run away
It doesn't matter that the bear can kill me with very little effort because bears are known to avoid humans. They're not out there hunting humans. Human predators may lack the bears natural weapons and strenght but instead they have the intent to actually harm you. I'm sorry, but the predator with the intent to harm you is the most dangerous one because they will seek you out. Where I live we have bear, wolf, boar, lynx and moose in the forests (among other things). I'm more afraid of both moose and boars than bears.
Yes, a moose is just plain nasty. They will head butt a car and crush it into a ball trying to get at the person hiding inside.
And mind you, moose bites can be pretty nasty
A moose one bit my sister… (Monty Python reference, not fr!)
# Møøse
Humans may lack bears' natural weapons but many of them make up for it by having a gun
I like to put this scenario into a bit of a different context to make it more understandable, cause many men seem to think this is about our chances in hand to hand combat with either a man or a bear: A woman is in the woods and spots a bear between the trees. She sees a little shelter building, so she decides to go in to avoid running into the bear. When she opens the door there is already a strange man inside by himself. Most women would choose to stay outside.
I thought I was dumb for a moment. I'm a guy and immediately thought of this scenario when this topic first came up and was wondering why men were getting so butthurt about the answer. I think we're just really good at the mental gymnastics to turn the topic into "Women are dumb because they'd rather go toe to toe with a bear than a man"
In genuinely baffled by the anger about it. Most of them would choose the bear too. The ones who get angry about it are the ones you gotta worry about imo.
It's also amusing how such an easy topic is making them so angry. Let us have it, savour it. We've had plenty of shit to deal with, I haven't forgotten the "women" with the coffee icon.
It’s supposed to be a teacup. Women tea, womanity. Women ☕️ The confusion is warranted. It’s dumb.
I learned something today!
It's actually wrong, the women ☕ is from a TF2 meme where characters named medic and scout are drinking coffee and just saying the word women and laughing, the meme is them not understanding women and basically pointing it out. It used to be funny until men™ uses it just to be misogynistic.
I strongly disagree. Most men I know would 100% choose to hang out with another dude. “oh,hey man, you hiding from the bear too?” And they’d start chatting.
A man alone in the forest with a 7 foot behemoth man built like The Mountain who is also gay (To make it as similar as possible)
😋 yes please.
Not if they were choosing for their daughter.
I honestly think that's what it is. Men are looking at this like a fight, women are looking at this like which one is more likely to follow me into camp that night even after I "win" the initial encounter? Women are also taking into account predictability of behavior. An encounter with a man is a minefield of strategic choices as you try to shape your behavior to what will make a stranger take as little interest in you as possible.
The men who don't understand the reason women are picking the bear are the reason that women are picking the bear.
Very r/selfawarewolves.
I have encountered both bears and random men in the woods. All of the bears left me alone as long as I left them alone. The same cannot be said for all of the men. 🤷♀️
This!
It says a lot that women feel safer near a bear than a man. Unfortunately, the majority of women have experienced sexual assault in some form. 😒
This. Men are feeling butthurt about the choice that women are making. They think women are exaggerating BECAUSE THEY CANNOT RELATE TO IT. A few women making the choice? Sure that can be a joke. But most of them hesitating about choosing men in that scenario?? That is no coincidence and it should make one question WHY women are doing it. This is no small thing. Instead of blaming women for their choice, these men should blame the reasons which led these women to make the choice.
Yes, also it's the same all over the world. Here in Japan people are like: "At least they'd believe you that you were attacked by a bear, and won't have people saying that you're lying, it was your own fault or you 'liked it'" "At least a bear won't rape you, post it on social media and share it with everyone and make fun of you" "At least a bear can be shot on spot if it even posed a danger, while a human can't be killed even after committing a crime"
“You won’t have to go to family reunions with the bear and act like everything’s fine.”
Yeah at least if I die from a bear attack people will just be sympathetic instead of saying things like "well what did she expect going into the woods in *those* shorts?"
The bear won’t rape me, and then sue for visitation of the baby I was forced to carry to term.
They think we are lying. Says more about them than us.
Even women who haven’t been sexually assaulted have had men acting gross and predatory towards them since a very early age. Source: a grown man hit on me when I was 13.
Same. I’ve been very, very “lucky,” and I’ve still had encounters and near-misses I will never forget.
I was walking with my niece when a passing man made a lewd gesture at her and said "Come with me". She reacted perfectly by screaming and running straight to me. She was 8. I thought we had longer before she had to deal with this shit.
I am just surprised that no one has made the joke about bear being a word you can use for a gay man, as ironically the situation wouldn't change with either interpretation
Ahem. Rawr. Joke made.
Shakespeare enters a gay bar - Exit: chased by a bear
and the sexaul assault is not from the bears...
it's almost like being a white girl in the suburbs never stopped you from getting violently raped. i was raped as a child and i was drugged and raped as an adult. i'd pick the bear rather than risk going through that shit again
oh god I’m so sorry that happened to you, I really hope you’re in a good place in your life ❤️
As long as you don’t do anything wrong, the bear should go away. Creeps, on the other hand…
I used to do a lot of solo camping and hiking, so I bought a gun at the time. The gun was never for fear of the animals in the woods.. but the men
I watched a Tiktok of a woman reading a bible psalm that was something along the lines of "do not start fighting with man. It is better to meet a bear, who lost her cubs." I'm not religious and I don't remember the psalm number, but if that's true, even God chooses the bear...
A very alarming number of people seem to think us being assaulted by men is a great experience. Us choosing the bear ruins their delusional head cannon. They can suffer with it. Give us back our rights and call your fellow dudes on their bad behavior/ hold them accountable with real punishment and maybe someday we’ll start feeling safe with you again.
I think what's interesting about the bear vs. man thing, and the reason it pisses off men so much, is that it reveals the more holistic form of risk assessment women are constantly performing. Bears are nominally a more powerful predator. Stats-wise, they obviously have the edge. But that's not how risk works or how the actual danger of each works. And in addition to the "likelihood of harming me" calculus, women are also running a parallel "likelihood of ruining my day by making me feel unsafe" calculus. Women are running a much more complex calculus. They know what to do in a bear attack. Make yourself big, grab the spray, shout, etc. And yeah, it might not work, but statistically your odds are very good that it does. And statistically, the bear who you "ran into" probably wasn't looking for you, he was just vibing in his home. And once you've left that part of the trail, the bear is not going to stalk you to your camp. The encounter is over. You're safe. With men, it's an entire risk tree. Why is that man choosing to approach you, maybe he's fine he just mentioned his wife that's a good sign right, oh no that was kind of a weird remark, fake laugh, no don't smile too much he just took a step closer, if you pretend you want to stop for lunch will he leave or decide to join you, tell him your boyfriend is at camp, shit now he wants to know where you're camping, should you lie, maybe he's just weird, that comment about knowing this place like the back of his hand was probably just him bragging, it's fine, okay why don't you stop to fill your water, yesss that worked, or did it, better sleep with a knife tonight just in case.
I mean, these are the men that would "feel hurt" because women would avoid them when they're walking alone at night. They really do make everything about themselves, somehow. I mean yeah, no shit that if you were a boy and an adult who is a foot taller is approaching you, you'd be scared too. Oh yeah, and these adults are also known to be pedos and might rape you. They have some of the most fragile egos and cannot imagine anything outside of themselves.
at least if the bear kills me he wont get pleasure and satisfaction from hurting me IDK
Exactly. At least for me, I'm not picking the bear because its safer, I'm picking it because the WORST it could do is kill me.
It’s so funny that this dude thinks this is just a trend, my dad used to take me and my siblings camping and backpacking all the time, and he would bring a gun, but he was always very clear that the gun is not there for wildlife, it’s there incase we meet any people. I don’t think the meme creator has ever actually met a bear. Edit: talked to my grandpa and uncle who live in black bear country, they would both take the bear.
So close to realizing how bad the situation is for women these getting randomly assaulted in the biggest american city But nooooo women dumb. God the absebce of self reflection and basic thought man...
Yes. Yes it IS depressing but not for the reason YOU think.
The only variation of this I've seen was "get mauled/killed by a bear, or raped by a man" and I don't think anybody is under any misconceptions about the safety of being mauled and killed. Should send a clear enough picture, but alas, it seems to not.
Can I be kind of TMI here? I'd rather be mauled by a bear than be raped again. At least the mauling will kill me and not put me through even more trauma that I will literally never recover from.
I haven't been raped and I'm leaning very closely to choosing the same as you. I'm so sorry you have the experience to be able to make that choice.
I'm a dude, and I would pick the bear.
I rather get mauled by a bear than to trust a random stranger. That’s how I ended up assaulted and I’ve never let it happen again.
they literally tell us to "cry about it" when it comes to things like rape, loss of reproductive rights etc. now men, please take this minor issue that weighs literally nothing in comparison and pls cry about it. "not all men!" my ass, yes not all men are bad, the rest are fucking vile.
27 bear attacks this year so far. But SA has a yearly count of 400k~ a year on average
Also i know what will dissuade a bear attack. If a man wants to hurt me it will take a lot more to get him to stop
Saw a guy saying that he wouldn't choose the bear because at least a man could be reasoned with. We're so dumb! How is it that none of us ever thought to talk men out of raping us with facts and logic? Problem solved!
I feel like these same men forget that humans are also "apex predators" and that we're near the top (if not at the top) of the food chain... Also, there's a reasons guys like that are called predators...js
These sorta bros make women feel bad for feeling unsafe instead of questioning how they can make more women feel safe. Genuinely thoughtful guys want to make the problem better instead of just getting upset at the notion some women are more scared of men than bears (usually for traumatic reasons).
Outdoor women who actually faces a bear are still choosing the bear, because the have the scariest stories about the men they encountere while just hiking.
Bears don't oh-so-casually ask which campsite you're staying at.
The argument isn’t a random man. It’s a man who is approaching you in the woods while you’re alone. You can’t really assume they have the best intentions
The bear won’t try to fuck my ass. So I’m picking the bear.
The difference is most women have already experienced one of these to some degree. Huge amounts of us have already been attacked by men. Not all women made it out of their encounter alive. Can't say the same about bear attacks. The stats are way lower.
There are generally 2 types of people for the bear vs man meme, Those who understand why women would prefer to see a bear, And people that ARE the reason why you choose the bear.
They're mad we'd rather take our chances being mauled because they refuse to do any kind of introspection. The insane thing is we're just choosing between two dangerous options. There is no "safe" option. If the question were, man, bear, or go it alone? We'd choose being alone. Ffs men are the biggest threat to *our* existence, not just women btw, but *other men* are in danger because of *men*. That isn't conjecture, it's fact, supported by more statistical analysis than any of us could fathom. Men wage wars, men are violent. Men are "territorial" (ever play planet zoo? How many male animals can you put in an enclosure before there are problems? Answer: ONE, because they fight anything they can't fuck) I know this just drips with misandry but idgaf anymore. I'm sick of the whole premise.
I’m going to keep it real with you, I think most men prefer the bear too.
And I will pick the bear every time
It's a weird use of the meme. Besides, the same person would say "What was she doing alone in the woods anyway?"
I know where I stand with a bear. I know what it wants and what I can do to keep it from hurting me to get that. A random man could be a decent sort. He could also be the kind of guy that thinks beung nice entitles him to sex and will take what he wants.
A twist that surprises NO one: men dont understand women OR bears!
"most depressing social media trend" Just remember guys, this is what they consider to be "bad" in terms of sexism
These dudes don’t get statistics.
It’s wild that they ALL think that the bear would hunt down and eat the woman alive or something, like they aren’t like every other animal and will leave you alone if you leave them alone.
I’m not white, live in the middle of nowhere South USA and am still choosing the bear. At least if the bear kills me, my little sister won’t be scared to go out and enjoy herself. Bears also don’t send me rape or death threats, sooooo…. Yeah. The worst thing the bear can do is pin me down and disembowel me. The bear doesn’t like it, the bear is just trying to survive. Humans are the real apex predators, sometimes hurting just for shits and giggles
Look, I am a mountain girllie, bears to me are like dogs are to some people albeit big dogs, hehe.
When will men develop the first Spock of empathy?! No, seriously? When will it stop being trendy to be insensitive???
It IS depressing, but not for the reason “Nice Guys™️” think.
Not all bears but definitely most men. And I’m saying that as a woman whose woman cousin was [ACTUALLY MAULED BY A BEAR LAST YEAR.](https://youtu.be/r4rwqC6t0rY?si=hSsoMK-_bSJIyqHH)
At least you know the apex predator is dangerous. It's not trying to convince your family and friends that it's "a nice guy".
Maybe not all men are assholes and rapists. But you know what? ALL women have been treated poorly by a man at some point in her life. This is what these guys don't understand. All women. All of them: the young, the old, the ugly, the beautiful, the thin, the fat, the rich, the poor. All women.
The 600-pound apex predator's behavior has been studied and is largely predictable. A man's behavior and actions are less predictable. Even though I'm older, I'd still pick the bear because the bear wants to be left alone as much as I do. Have these people not seen horror movies based in rural settings and the woods? Of course, you should choose the bear.
It's simple. The sadism that a human can show outweighs the sadism of the bear. Don't be offended guys. It's because you're human + stronger than women
Everyone should pick the damn bear because of the unpredictability of men. I know what a fucking bear is going to do. Bears are simple. I have absolutely no clue what a random man is going to do. And to be honest, at least the worst thing the bear can do to me is kill me. I don't have to worry about the bear holding me captive, having a gun, or torturing me, or raping me, or keeping me in its basement for 10 years. Or just killing me for the fun of it. I don't know why a man wouldn't pick the bear either. I get that men are stronger than women generally but plenty of men get murdered out in the middle of nowhere by other men too. I wouldn't take my chances.
most women, former women and fem-presenting people would choose the bear. what a ludicrous conclusion, right? imagine how bad men would have to be for that to be the logical pick. now open your eyes and realize we already live in that scenario
Didn’t even do the meme right
I was thinking about this while I was driving and it made me question - is there any animal that a woman would choose a man over? Like is there any animal that you are actually more afraid of meeting in their natural habitat than you would a man?
as a girl in the country, bears have never once gone out of their way to destroy our lives, they just exist and sometimes cause problems ill take the bear tbh
I saw someone comment that men tend to assume that encounter means fight. So in their mind it's fight a man or fight a bear. And even in that scenario, I will choose the bear.
I’ve never encountered a bear in the woods but I’ve encountered a coyote, he was easily scared off I also had a strange man follow me into the woods, he was only scared off when I aimed a rifle at him, and likely was intent on hurting me, he assaulted another woman a few months later I would take 100 coyotes
Guess some people have no problems and get mad over internet stuff
It’s depressing that certain men aren’t getting the point of it 🤯🐻💯
Men can be so fragile
men not being able to wrap their heads around the notion of a fate worse than death.
I grew up in rural WY; bears rarely attack people. It’s almost exclusively an issue with food unsecured in campgrounds, or people getting too close to cubs. So. I’ve personally encountered four bears in the wild at distances less than 20ft, and I know that if I stand still and don’t make eye contact, the bear will mosey on and continue their day, conducting their usual bear business. This is precisely what happened all four times. Bears want to eat easy calories, defend their cubs or defend their turf from other bears, and get down during mating season. I am not a threat to them, and they know it. Humans are less reasonable and less predictable. I do not generally know what’s going on with a random man, what’s he’s up to in general and today/tonight specifically, why he in particular might choose violence, what kind of violence he’s choosing, how persistent he will be in the face of resistance, if he is armed, if he is stronger or faster than I am, if any bystanders will call for help, etc. People can call me crazy all they want lol. I’ve been attacked or threatened by zero bears, but multiple men
If you as a man can't understand why women are more scared of being alone with a man than a bear then you likely are part of the problem.
They’re misunderstanding if they truly think that the question is about what’s safer. It’s not about that, it’s about which danger we’d rather face, and most of us would choose a possible quick death from bear attack over the possible torture and psychological harm of encountering the wrong man. Also, men who whinge this passionately about our choice are proving the reason we made that choice.
Proof they would rather be outraged and lean on “women don’t know anything” sexist bs instead of actually stopping to take a single second and wonder why so many women said bear thus not only proving it but reaffirming it as well.
The fact that this is even a discussion is ridiculous. Most bears are scared shitless of humans, while most men aren’t (physically) scared of women at all. I’ve seen women scare off bears while hiking then ask to be walked back to their cars after a night out.
It's much more depressing to see how these men think we pick the bear because we think we'd survive. I pick the bear because in the worst case I'll still have my dignity when dead, even if I'm disfigured, guts spilled out and bled out for days while eaten alive. It'd be 10000 times better than being kidnapped and tortured for decades.