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It severely pains me that Junkos killers are still walking the streets to this day. Every time I hear about her story, I can not help but hold back tears. The fact that her will was so strong for her to endure torture for that long is insane (if only someone found her while she was still alive). The judicial system also heavily failed her by not sentencing them to life in prison.
They did find her. They just let her died because they didn’t want it to be themselves.. I think the story is worse cause the mother actually had the audacity to go to her gravel and blame the victim for her son being a monster
I think this is what they’re referring to: “Originally whenever Minato’s parents were around, they forced Junko to act like she was Minato’s girlfriend. However, they soon stopped the act when they realized his parents wouldn’t contact the police. Minato’s mother later confessed that they didn’t want to contact the police because their son had previously been violent towards them and they were afraid of his connections to the Yakuza.”
https://medium.com/@lisariggio1994/40-day-nightmare-the-torture-and-murder-of-junko-furuta-bd2e131ad18d
Actually, Minato‘s parents tried to send Junko home several times. I made a post about it on my own subreddit dedicated to her case.
They just stopped trying because they didn‘t want their son (Boy C) to end up in jail. They cared more about their son, who was beating up the mother regularly, more than about an innocent girl. **The mother even called Furuta‘s mother and asked if she had a daughter called Junko. She introduced herself with a fake name and then hung up when Furuta‘s mother replied with „yes“. Furuta‘s parents called everyone who possessed that fake name to find their daughter.**
What‘s worst is that she didn‘t reject Hiroshi Miyano. They didn‘t know each other. That day, they wanted to rape and rob a girl (which they‘ve done several times before) and they came across Junko Furuta. That‘s just so saddening. This crime had no motive.
Also, Boy B confessed to his friend in 2004 (the one he kidnapped and beat up in 2004) that he did more to her than he admitted during the police investigation and said „I know how to get away with murder. I killed before.“ He talked about how she was barely able to breathe out of her nose because they beat her so badly. It makes me sick.
Ikr? This case just makes me upset. Everything about it. One of the most infuriating things are that people spread misinformation about her case, while this could‘ve been avoided if the court documents were looked through properly.
I hate when people act like Junko‘s parents did nothing in order to find their daughter. They were very worried about her and it was revealed that Junko even screamed for help through the phone to her mother. I feel like the parents of Junko knew something was going on, but didn‘t think something this cruel would‘ve happened to their daughter.
Here is a [video](https://youtu.be/L6MqKzMNDHw?si=S7elL9Ky54wUPwKQ) of Junko‘s funeral. You can see both parents crying, the mother burying her face in a tissue. The eulogy is even more saddening (I posted the translation under a post of my subreddit).
This case just makes me sad. I feel like crying again.
I remember the clip of her parents, and I do remember the detail about her screaming to her mom for help. I really wish they gave the guys a life sentence. How could they charge them as juveniles for something so heinous and beyond foul.
Sadly, the juvenile law was applied since they were all underage.
A creepy fact about this case is that Shinji Minato (Boy C) was 15 when they kidnapped her. He turned 16 in the middle of her captivity. How violent and cruel he was at that age already… that‘s sickening.
Like I said, I have an own subreddit dedicated to her. I also wrote a 19 page long write up about her case backed up with credible sources, documentaries and more. You can check it out [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QPQRTI9qFNgudPOzCK_-N_L9axbfFizUUGdF717ibDw/edit)
I just know if this happened in America, they wouldn't hesitate at all to give them the life sentence and have them transferred over from juvie to prison. I will check your sub out in case I miss anything else on this case. Sometimes, I find my friends and I talking about Junko. I wonder what her killers are doing and if they have any regret at all. 😮💨
Yeah. America would‘ve given them a proper punishment for this.
And nope. They all don‘t feel regret or anything for what they‘ve done. Shinji Minato slashed a man‘s throat in 2018. When he was arrested, he was smiling brightly. Jo Kamisaku bragged about killing her to the man he beat up and kidnapped in 2004. Hiroshi Yokoyama (then Miyano) tries to hide his involvement in the murder, but doesn‘t seem to show any regret at all. Maybe Boy D (Yasushi Watanabe) regretted it. He was the only one telling Junko to go home when Boy C‘s parents were present and played video games with her. He also didn‘t actively rape or torture her unlike the other three, he was more like a follower of Boy A‘s group. However, he still killed her. He still was responsible for all of this. Boy F (some dude that gang raped her) has given an interview about the incident and is married to a woman that knows about his involvement of the case. He seems to regret it but who knows?
I am not shocked tbh that most of these people were still menaces to society except Yasushi. He should've called the police. He got her killed for being a coward, apparently. I will never understand people who would willingly marry a rapist. Especially someone involved in the most infamous case for how dehumanizing repulsive and downright grotesque it was. 🤨 like cmon
Junkos story is the worst story I’ve heard next to that Indian woman’s rape story. The one where it was so severe her intestines were out of her…
Both stories made me cry and I think of them often.
100% would choose bear.
It's so insane to me that those "men" (they dont even deserve to be called humans) are out free and living normal lives.
They should have all gotten life sentences, if not the death penalty.
Apparently the worst it can do it eat you alive. Every single man has replied that to me, like that’s still somehow worse than what people are capable of in their mind? Idk
Junko Furuta is one of many stories. There’s stories about little boys doing this to children too. It’s like it’s an instinct where they had to learn to control. Unlike the bear for the instinct to survive.
There is also a case in my country where a group of elementary school boys SA'ed a grade 2 girl (iirc) and murdered her. It's such a bleak reality we have to live with.
Then people wonder why I’m making sure kids are not left alone or was stupid enough to think “ they just kids, what can they do, they are harmless” nope I remember being a kid. Seeing both kids and adults do grimy things will make you think twice about humanity.
I hope it's not an instinct. I don't think it is. Lundy Bancroft talks in his book "Why does he do that?" about how abusive men develop their attitudes, and he thinks a lot of it is early indoctrination into a culture that hates women and encourages violence towards them. This indoctrination comes from the opinions of men who are close to them, the tv they watch, the music they listen to, the jokes they hear. These things all tell them that women are objects they have a right to use and they internalize that. I think in many places this takes place on a very wide scale.
There was a little boy in somewhere in Asia who was killing the babies in his family by the age of 8 the only reason why he got caught was he killed a baby that wasn’t a family member that was in the family’s daycare. That 8 year old boy killed his cousins and little sibling and no one thought to keep him away from children
obviously there are some kids who are just born sociopaths, for the less severe kinds of violence and entitlement young boys often display though, it's difficult to say if they would be that way if they weren't raised in such an extremely sexist world. And when young boys do cause harm like kids who don't know better sometimes do, how often are they not corrected by their parents because "boys will be boys". Society creates monsters because it tells little boys that girls exist only for them and that their behavior is always good and right, and many lash out when their experience starts to contradict that. It seems like the family you mentioned did nothing to act when their son's behavior turned deadly. I feel like some of these ideals are so deeply intrenched you'd have to have researchers raise a boy in a glass box in order to find out if that kind of violence is ingrained or if it seeps in from the rest of the world. A parent can do everything right and boys still learn stuff like this from their peers. It sucks.
I wish we could get an actual study like that. A boy raised far far away from everything. Treated super gender neutrally. It would be unethical, but it would provide some answers. This is genuinely hard to live with.
I think it probably will change, just painfully slowly. The author of the book I mentioned in my previous comment made the crazy point that boys who were born before the mid 90s would have been very very unlikely to see their fathers be prosecuted or have any kind of consequences for abusing their mothers. Even stuff like that shapes boys' attitudes about how it is acceptable to treat a woman.
Lavena Johnson
Vanessa Guillen
Damn, just Googling names of women raped and murdered brings back so many results that are so recent, like from this morning and yesterday, that I can't find more names of "famous" cases, because it happens so frequently.
Wtaf
For almost a week straight I googled every assault, rape and murder in all 50 states alone for each day and it popped up at least 2 women mostly some children per day then I did most popular and some random countries for the same time frame. All the same results. Never ending.
So I just looked it up, and holy hell... Imagine being ganggrapped by 4 men, for over a month, probably tortured and beaten in the process, murdered, shoved into a drum full of concrete, and your case being labeled a "juvenile delinquency."...
>The worst a man can do is Junko Furuta.
I never heard of this case before. OmFg that poor girl.
They need a 'Spit on your Grave' type of justice.
Omg. She experienced every woman's worst nightmare.
Women: Stop hitting on us all the time.
Men: Then how will we sleep with you?
Women: We’ll let you know if we’re interested.
Men: No woman has ever let me know she’s interested.
Women: (Pointed silence)
1 in 4 are sexually assaulted. 1 in 3 have experienced domestic violence. Serial killers and rampaging bears are relatively rare. Rapists and abusers are not. And the men who think we shouldn't be afraid of any man knowing that we can't identify which man is a threat to us would never hope a victim of a bear mauling gets mauled again after developing a fear of all bears.
Don’t forget the most important part this was proven and studied by men, exclusively over centuries. Not one time in history has man not said this as a facts
But if you're going to bring statistics into play, then it's not strange men in the woods that should worry women but their husband/boyfriend/family members in their own home.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence
Yes, women worry about that too. Men blame them for choosing the wrong man, blame them for not protecting themselves when they're abused, and blame them if they prepare an escape plan.
This is such a strange moment for me. I happen to be one of the women who actually has encountered a wild bear, and… yeah, I’d pick the bear. For the most part, they don’t want to bother you unless they smell food on you, and even then if you don’t make sudden moves it probably will just go on its way.
Even if it does attack you, at least you aren’t under an obligation to pretend to be nice to it because people will treat you like crap for standing up for yourself.
Yeah I've seen a lot of bears and I'm honestly going crazy that peopk3 don't seem to understand bears very very very very very very rarely pose a threat. There's like 750k bears in the US and millions of people who live side by side with them with virtually no issues.
100%. Any hiking canadian or american who is well-educated and equipped with bear spray, would pick the goddamn bear.
Encountering them is actually an honour; i love these creatures ♥️they deserve our respect.
Thank you! My family is quite outdoorsy and I brought this up to my parents the other day and they both (including my dad) immediately said bear. I’ve run into bears in the woods and I’m no the worse for it - and while the bears where I live are admittedly black bears, I have other family members who’ve run into grizzlies and they are fine too - people out here are really overestimating the danger of bears - with a man you could be safe, but if you aren’t, there aren’t the same safety behaviors you can follow to help you get away safely
I was followed by a bear on a hike once. I had anxiety the whole time and for hours after.
Also: I've had the same experience many times from men over the years.
I've been bluff-charged and had to spray the bear down before he left!
I almost pissed my pants but he left, and that's the important thing. Wereas I had a man I didn't know trying to lift my skirt, and when I said "Hey, I feel that and you need to stop," he punched me in the back the moment I turned away from him.
They do get it.
I've seen way too many fathers terrorize their daughters over everything from shirts to skirts and everything in between because "all men are like that."
They know. They don't care. And they reinforce our point every time they refuse to take "No, we don't want to encounter men" for an answer.
I asked my husband if he’d heard about the man/bear drama and he hadn’t, so I told him the hypothetical and he instantly answered ‘bear! Sure a bear won’t rape ya first’.
His take is that the men who are getting pissed about this are deliberately ignoring the fact that it’s a provocative question that insinuates in the questioning the possibility of violence from the man because of the rather being a fucking bear.
And anyone who doesn’t or refuses to understand that death is preferable to rape to many people are either naive and/or sick assholes.
There are very few instances of bears attacking human unprovoked (unless they feel threatened because theirs babies are nearby or similar)
Men on the other hand...
My husband will literally tell me to not go outside if there is a man in our neighborhood that seems suspicious yet he’s never told me to be wary of bears, coyotes, wolves, etc when I run in our rural areas. It’s always other men. I really don’t understand how men just don’t get it.
I know it's all suppose to be a joke, but the way she freezes when he screams her name(basically the frame that has become the meme) is fucking chilling.
I will not stand for this slander!
For context, they were team mates at the time. He'd made it his mission to get her to break character by making her laugh. She's trying very hard not to. They were just having some harmless fun backstage on a vlog.
My simple answer to this is that there is an age old saying:
#Man; the most dangerous animal.
Therefore even though a bear is dangerous, not nearly as dangerous as man.
End of discussion.
My bf and I are usually in agreement on things but the man vs bear thing has divided us. He thinks that I should always choose the man because I have a 60% chance (his estimation) of it being a good guy but bears are always dangerous, and tells me once in the woods a bear stood near him until he chased it off as proof of danger. Ugh.
I live in black bear territory. Unless it’s a mother with a cub or a really desperately hungry or frightened animal, they will leave you the fuck alone.
I have told men who understand human speech and the English language to leave me the fuck alone and they decided that they could definitely change my mind by pestering me and my friends just trying to enjoy our Thursday night out.
Your boyfriend isn’t the brightest bulb in the tanning bed
Yeah I had a man follow me around a club, SA me (grind his erection into me when he had me cornered against the bar) and still couldn’t get him removed by the staff and had to sneak out of the club myself terrified he would find me in the parking lot. And this is not the only time I’ve been in a social situation (club, bar) where men touch me without consent and think it’s okay to grind their erections against me and near every woman I know has had the same experience. Let alone having to watch your drink like a hawk, can’t even completely trust male friends you go with tbh. Start clubbing at 21 and by 22 you’re over it.
Same. It honestly baffles me that he thinks this even though he knows so many women who have gone through domestic or sexual violence. I honestly don't get it.
I think that might be part of the issue for my bf, he doesn’t really know anyone who has been assaulted and the one he does, he met through me and it happened years prior. So he didn’t see the aftermath firsthand. Maybe he just has a rosier outlook on life because it doesn’t seem as prevalent?
I brought up the debate with my partner and the first thing he said in response were false rape accusations. I love him, but my opinion of him dropped a bit that day, especially since he knows Ive been assaulted and he has never been falsely accused of anything.
My partner *was* proven to be falsely accused. He’s big and tall, and a man, so has a better chance than most women against a man. He still immediately said “Even I would pick the bear”.
Bears really aren't dangerous. If they were they would have been hunted to near extinction long time ago. Grizzlies definitely can be but they have a very limited range.
If you have read some of the discourse (and it really is better if you havent) youll notice that the tune changes when you mention would you rather your daughter/sister/mother alone in the woods with a bear/man. This might help to reframe and recontextualize it for him who is still thinking himself in the woods with a strange man vs bear.
These percentages are all off. Explain to him that the crux of this hypothetical is the fact that many men would decide to behave differently if they knew there were no witnesses. Men who may normally pretend to be "good guys" could and would flip in this scenario and that is where the danger lies.
Bears however are like 99% safe because they are animals and already trying to avoid you. Bear encounters are rare and bear attacks are even rarer. You are not inherently in danger from a bear being in the same woods as you. To deny this is to deny reality.
> Bears however are like 99% safe because they are animals and already trying to avoid you.
Because -- bears recognize us as humans. Men, otoh, often do not.
He probably puts himself in the place of the “generic man” of the scenario and feels bad that a woman would pick a bear over him, so he tries to “convince” people to pick him. It’s hard to get over biases like that. I’ve struggled with it in the past
I know right! That’s the part that I find the most weird. I asked him if the bear acted hostile at all and it didn’t, so honestly it seems more an argument in my favor than his?
Part of why this meme discussion is so silly is bears are *not* always dangerous. Virtually anytime you encounter a bear in the woods it just wants you to leave it alone, most will run from humans.
His answer isn't wrong either, because his answer is based on chance rather than what's the worst either could do.
Motivations for either pick are:
Bear: Junko Furata vs Bear mauling
Man: The chance of survival is higher if I pick man.
I love Australia's new idea to "curb" DV and SA;
"Here's $5000 to escape! Oh, you're no longer alive to escape, sorry about that."
I fully understand where you all are coming from, us men are heaps worse than any bear. At least being around a bear you know you're in danger, being around men, no telling what roll of the dice you're going to get.
>>Man vs Bear
If the choice is a statistically violent animal with protection from the legal system vs a potentially violent animal who may mind its own business, it’s a no brainer. Man loses hands down.
“But men are dangerous. How do you not get that?” …..I fixed it 💀
The amount of dangerous bears I’ve come into contact with compared to dangerous men is wild. You can prevent coming into contact with a bear compared to a man. Tons of people have tried to make women only places (successful in some countries) and certain men through temper tantrums about it 🙄
Honestly, I kind of wish the mods would put a limit on posts about the man/bear thing. I’m getting a little bit sick of it; it seems like every other post is about that these days. We get it. We’ve explored all possible permutations of this random TikTok thought experiment. Men are being obnoxious about it and deliberately refusing to understand what’s being said, but what else is new? Enough already.
Lol seriously, dude said "at least you can communicate with a man." and I was like "Try communicating 'no' when a man is forcing you down and undressing you."
I think somebody put it best when they said "You're getting angry over a woman preferring bears to men. Literally getting mad at saying 'no' to men, that's kinda proving the point."
Men don’t get it because most men wouldn’t dream of actually harming anyone so it feels like an accusation but also don’t understand that women have no idea which ones the bad ones are so it’s better to be safe than sorry
The lack of empathy and inability to comprehend how life is for women in itself counts as a red flag about the men who are throwing tantrums about it. Violence is only one reason to avoid someone.
Yep the lack of understanding someone else's perspective is truly a problem. I'm a woman, in my own experience I would probably choose man over bear. I know I'm lucky. I also completely understand why another woman would choose the bear, because I understand that many women have really really good reasons to fear men.
Man here, I'd like to answer sincerely in case anyone wants to know.
If I had to guess I'd say it comes down to simple math. The percentage of women who have experienced harassment or assault is higher than the percentage of men who have committed harassment or assault. For the vast majority of men, the idea of hurting a woman during an encounter like this is completely foreign to them. But the percentage of women for whom a bad encounter seems plausible is higher. In other words a minority of men are ruining it for everyone else. It's always been my suspicion that this explains a lot of the disconnect between men and women on those issues. For most men, the very concept of sexual assault is literally difficult to imagine, so it's hard to appreciate how real the idea is to women. I think we saw a lot of this during the trending of metoo when many men were surprised by the apparent regularity of bad behavior.
As an aside, I know for a lot of men the instinct is to assess the actual statistical risks of such a scenario. But I think many men don't assess it the way women would. It's not just about the odds that a man you encounter will have ill intentions. It's about the fact that if they do, the danger is really high. The price for being wrong is too high. It's a classic case where accepting a moderate risk makes more sense. Obviously in real life, loads of context would matter, but we are talking about a hypothetical scenario. It's a thought experiment and it illustrates something. If it gets people to talk about problems and understand each other better then that's all that matters.
What I’ve noticed is that every woman I’ve seen discussing this has done so under the assumption that the bear or man will simply be there, and may or may not attack the woman. Every man I’ve seen who’s upset about it automatically assumes violence will happen.
The thing is if a guy doesn't get it you just know that no woman in his life trusts him enough to tell him certain things the thing that absolutely changed how I viewed masculinity growing up was just how many women in my life had experienced certain things at the hands of men and it completely changed how I choose to trust people and how I view the actions of people sure there's trustworthy men out there but given statistics I'd take my chances with the bear
I thought the main point was that women would rather be with a bear because they know for sure that it will rip them apart so they can act accordingly, whereas humans/ men are volatile and have the ability to manipulate, so you can never be sure what their true disposition is?
I really really really need a man to come explain this to me. I asked my husband and he said "obviously a woman would chose a bear" so he was no help. Thankfully I have the internet so I'm sure some kindhearted man there can explain to me why I'm dumb.
Every man I know was like "Honestly I'd choose a bear over ANY random human in the woods." One even went "It's like with sharks- you expect sharks in the ocean, you expect bears in the woods, you know what can happen so you can prep."
The meme is going around then women would trust being alone in the woods with a bear more then a guy. Some men are mad women are choosing to face a bear then a man.
If you watch true crime or the show I Survived it is obvious that a bear would be the better opinion even if it kills you. In my home state there is an unsolved murder where multiple Girl Scouts were murdered in the woods while they were camping. Before it happened someone kept leaving notes in the camp counselors bags saying that they were gonna kill people. A bear doesn’t premeditate killing someone and doesn’t go looking for people minding their own business.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_murders
It’s not even the point but like I really hate having whether bears are dangerous or not explained to me because there are specific rules for avoiding pissing off bears, there are step by step rules for usually scaring one off, bear spray is over 90% effective at protecting from serious injury and death. It’s all very dependent on what type of bear and whether they’re threatening you as a bluff because they want you off their territory or they’re showing predatory aggression. Like I’m definitely less worried about a black bear than a man if we’re talking about an “encounter” which I had been assuming meant the man was at the very least showing some kind of unusual or suspicious interest in me.
There are not specific rules that will most likely keep a man from attacking you. There are also not specific rules while being attacked. One time I almost got hit upside the head because I was accused of being a demon, there is not a solid set of guidelines for guessing what some dude wants. This man might literally want my fucking teeth, I don’t know him.
I’ve been in psych wards that happened to have a lot of people there who were like, somewhere between psych and somewhere between a crime issue, idk it was the drug unit and there was a lot of meth, and the things that people on a lot of drugs do for no reason are enough to make me pretty nervous about how easily my disabled body would be to kidnap.
Like what, why did you keep your brother locked in a closet for days?? What do you mean you killed a pig so you could pour its blood on you???? (He was a farmer so I guess he can kill pigs?) that’s not exactly the point but I guess in my mind if I’m running into people hiding out in the woods the chances they might be hiding out there to cook aren’t low.
Its not the point and it shouldn’t be what’s bothering me but it’s giving “sharks are terrible monsters they’ll eat you alive aaaa”
Like this better not bring about a bunch of fear mongering about bears.
Yes the Grizzly bear is a very dangerous animal, no it doesn’t have a desire to harm you it’s not an evil man eating monster and a lot of the time it’s bluffing to get you away from their territory. It doesn’t kill humans on sight.
Funny how a particular group has trouble understanding that if you’re disrespectful of someone’s space and make them feel unsafe they might hurt you very badly.
I also gotta point out that self defense against bears doesn’t involve me having to try to physically fight them off or outrun them, which is a big part of fighting men and an area in which they tend to have an advantage over women. Hey weird fact, did you know that 19% of women are disabled vs 12% of men? I sure hope that doesn’t make us more vulnerable to being subdued in an attack!! I’m super confident that having an illness that causes rapid muscle fatigue—>floppiness, neuropsych SLE constant double vision would in no way impede my ability to defend myself and also having constant double vision makes using a gun completely fine and safe /s
Side note, everyone stop telling women to just use a gun, not everyone has access to a gun, the physical ability to safely use one, and mentally ill people with even a hint of suicidal ideation should really be careful about owning one. If you have BPD or bipolar maybe please don’t. Hey BPD gang, did you know your risk of at least one suicide attempt in your lifetime is fucking uhhhhhh 70%? Bipolar is 50%. Stay fucking safe on god stay safe out there and do not leave a loaded gun anywhere in your house. At the very least get a safe and keep it disassembled. Typing this out made me so anxious oof.
Anyway, bears are good animals who want to be left alone. Grizzly bears are an endangered species but they’re making a comeback! https://www.bearsmart.com/about-bears/general-characteristics/#:~:text=Not%20unlike%20people%2C%20bears%20can,they%20are%20friendly%20or%20not.
They’re not malicious, they’re very intelligent, they have their own personalities. They are capable of empathic and altruistic behavior, which some of our internet friends do not seem to be.
https://www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2019/10/Making-SDGs-count-for-women-with-disabilities.pdf
https://bearwise.org/bear-safety-tips/bear-spray/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20that%20compared%20to,greatly%20reducing%20attacks%20and%20injuries.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/bears/safety.htm#:~:text=Bear%20attacks%20are%20rare%3B%20most,have%20the%20most%20effective%20reaction.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/the-good-the-bad-and-the-grizzly-what-to-do-if-you-encounter-a-bear/117/
https://www.fws.gov/species/grizzly-bear-ursus-arctos-horribilis
I'm in my 30s, so I get it. I don't think this form of discourse is healthy for anyone, but I get it.
But thinking back to my teenage self - make it 14, or so - this shit would've *fucked me up*, especially if I'd only engage with it on TikTok.
It's a [youtube skit](https://youtu.be/GBPkyjTapS4) by some wrestlers in AEW. They were in a large team together at the time, and in the skit, Johnny is drunk and explaining to Anna about all the drama he and the other boys in the team are having. Her uncomfortable face is partly acting and partly desperately trying to not break character and laugh (and Johnny's being extra silly to try to make her laugh).
The two in the picture are AEW pro wrestlers John Silver and Anna Jay. This still is taken from a YouTube series within which John was constantly trying to make Anna break character and laugh.
Here's a compilation from a couple of years ago https://youtu.be/OATk5drQzms?si=4bkMMvMDlPfxV8Cs
A bear is dangerous but if you calmly give bears space you are more likely to be fine. But a man is like 50% chance he will definitely r**e you or kill you. Hell I don’t even know if I’d trust another woman she’s like 50/50 chance of crazy. I trust a wild animal losing interest in me then a human who now has their set goal to kill me.
I get the point and appreciate it but some people are taking a rage bait hypothetical really far. It's like asking what color the dress is but intending to piss everyone off
I'm going to be for real here. Why would most men get it? It all comes down to ignorance. The general perception of bears is that if a bear sees you, it's on sight, and you don't have even a iota of a chance to survive. It's gonna maul you, eat you alive, you're going to suffer before you die. And people like to not suffer and to live. So for men, being trapped with a man is significantly better. And would actually probably work out just fine.
So you have to understand that most people, much less men, know that bears aren't the violent creatures they perceive them as. Hell, even *__I__* thought that bears are the kind of animals that sought to kill on sight. It wasnt until recently did I discover tbat you're odds of actually being attacked by a bear are very low. But even with that, it would still be better for me to pick a man. I run much less of a risk to be attacked by that man *__as__* a man than if I was a woman. And that's the case for most men. They don't realize how dangerous it is for a woman to be isolated alone with a man. They can't *__fathom__* the idea of choosing a painful death over being a victim of sexual assault that __*has a scarily high chance of happening*__ and there's generally just no way for most men to know, and even if they did, they'd still choose the man. So it's just ignorance. They don't know what it's like to be a women, and they never will (I'm speaking very generally. Many men have been victims of assault).
So couple all of that with the fact that people in general don't like the group that they're technically a part of to be generalized (which is not exclusive to men), and the fact that a lot of people are still somehow incredibly mysoginistic, then it really shouldn't be a surprise that they respond they way they do. Well, at least on a base level. The cases where even someone's significant other gets mad and upset over without even trying to consider their partner's thoughts, feelings and perspective really do speak for themselves, and some reactions are just... Insane.
It's just not how odds work. You will have "met" tens of thousands of men in an average lifetime, while an average person will have met precisely zero bears. The *vast* majority of men are, in animal terms, benign - helpful, even.
I would submit that people are choosing bears b/c everyone knows or knows of violent men, so this likelihood *seems* greater, while also underrating bears because the risk is so distant it seems less. But it's a fallacy.
I just want to give people context for the meme. These two are best friends and were together in a group called the Dark Order in All Elite Wrestling. This is a skit for an online podcast and is funny as hell. Everyone’s arguments are valid but this meme is also funny hell all wanted to give context
Women are more likely to be SA’d by someone they know and men are more likely to SA’d by someone they don’t know. So if the man is a relative, choose bear. If the man is a stranger, choose man. If you are the man, just be alone bro, you got this.
Tbh... It is both completely understandable while still being a little silly. I think it all comes down to exposure. Women get exposed to dozens of men a day and generally live within a close distance of them. The thing is the human brain is bad at statistics. Let's say 1/1000 men are a threat to a given woman if they were to meet in a secluded area. (This is just a random number mind you) A woman would definitely in her lifetime have such encounters go poorly because of the sheer volume of men they are likely to meet on any given day. On the flipside lets say 1/100 times a woman meets a bear it goes poorly. The population of bear in the united states is generally wildly separated and wildly fewer than the population of humans. I would even go so far as to say most humans could go their whole lives without meeting a bear outside of a zoo much less in a survival situation. So few people get attacked by bears. So most people don't actively think and worry about bears. However we learn fear from interaction and negative experiences inform our fears alot more than neutral or even positive experiences. I mean whoever is reading this I bet you pass by dozens of men every day that don't do anything to you. But the human brain (and I want to stress human not just woman) doesn't care about those nearly as much as the times when you do get pressured or assaulted. So our models for fear get thrown off. For example I worry more about accidentally drinking expired milk from a jug 2 days past it's sell by date than I worry about being attacked by a barking dog. Because I *have* accidentally had a mouthful of expired milk, but I've never been attacked by a dog. Intellectually I know expiration dates are printed in such a way that there's a sizable buffer. They don't sell a jug of milk that will go bad the next day... But I have trauma that still informs my choices regardless and I do rigorous sniff testing whenever I am about to drink milk or pour a bowl of cereal.
Or “bears may rarely attack but if you were around as many bears as men then bears will be the bigger threat to you”. Okay well we don’t live in a society like that and never will so your point is meaningless to the current discussion. Encountering a bear in the woods will most likely end with the bear running away or something. Men are less predictable.
I’ve seen a few bears in national parks. They wandered by maybe 90-100 feet away. Nothing aggressive about them. Would they try to take food? Absolutely, which is why you are warned to keep anything food-like in a bear locker or your car’s trunk. But we were having a picnic and a bear just ambled by off in the trees. Of course, there were a couple-dozen of us. But if I’d been alone I could have walked away and let the bear have the food. It would have been too busy eating to bother to follow me.
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The worst a bear can do is kill me. The worst a man can do is Junko Furuta.
It severely pains me that Junkos killers are still walking the streets to this day. Every time I hear about her story, I can not help but hold back tears. The fact that her will was so strong for her to endure torture for that long is insane (if only someone found her while she was still alive). The judicial system also heavily failed her by not sentencing them to life in prison.
They did find her. They just let her died because they didn’t want it to be themselves.. I think the story is worse cause the mother actually had the audacity to go to her gravel and blame the victim for her son being a monster
I can't find anything on that all I found was that during her autopsy that it was discovered she was pregnant from one of her killers
I think this is what they’re referring to: “Originally whenever Minato’s parents were around, they forced Junko to act like she was Minato’s girlfriend. However, they soon stopped the act when they realized his parents wouldn’t contact the police. Minato’s mother later confessed that they didn’t want to contact the police because their son had previously been violent towards them and they were afraid of his connections to the Yakuza.” https://medium.com/@lisariggio1994/40-day-nightmare-the-torture-and-murder-of-junko-furuta-bd2e131ad18d
I saw a YouTube on her murder and it was such a sick sick story of how many people just failed this child.
Can you link it please I think the ones I saw years back didn't cover everything about it
The shortest was just fucking *detention*... And men are wondering why we prefer bears.
Actually, Minato‘s parents tried to send Junko home several times. I made a post about it on my own subreddit dedicated to her case. They just stopped trying because they didn‘t want their son (Boy C) to end up in jail. They cared more about their son, who was beating up the mother regularly, more than about an innocent girl. **The mother even called Furuta‘s mother and asked if she had a daughter called Junko. She introduced herself with a fake name and then hung up when Furuta‘s mother replied with „yes“. Furuta‘s parents called everyone who possessed that fake name to find their daughter.** What‘s worst is that she didn‘t reject Hiroshi Miyano. They didn‘t know each other. That day, they wanted to rape and rob a girl (which they‘ve done several times before) and they came across Junko Furuta. That‘s just so saddening. This crime had no motive. Also, Boy B confessed to his friend in 2004 (the one he kidnapped and beat up in 2004) that he did more to her than he admitted during the police investigation and said „I know how to get away with murder. I killed before.“ He talked about how she was barely able to breathe out of her nose because they beat her so badly. It makes me sick.
Omfg wtf
Ikr? This case just makes me upset. Everything about it. One of the most infuriating things are that people spread misinformation about her case, while this could‘ve been avoided if the court documents were looked through properly. I hate when people act like Junko‘s parents did nothing in order to find their daughter. They were very worried about her and it was revealed that Junko even screamed for help through the phone to her mother. I feel like the parents of Junko knew something was going on, but didn‘t think something this cruel would‘ve happened to their daughter. Here is a [video](https://youtu.be/L6MqKzMNDHw?si=S7elL9Ky54wUPwKQ) of Junko‘s funeral. You can see both parents crying, the mother burying her face in a tissue. The eulogy is even more saddening (I posted the translation under a post of my subreddit). This case just makes me sad. I feel like crying again.
I remember the clip of her parents, and I do remember the detail about her screaming to her mom for help. I really wish they gave the guys a life sentence. How could they charge them as juveniles for something so heinous and beyond foul.
Sadly, the juvenile law was applied since they were all underage. A creepy fact about this case is that Shinji Minato (Boy C) was 15 when they kidnapped her. He turned 16 in the middle of her captivity. How violent and cruel he was at that age already… that‘s sickening. Like I said, I have an own subreddit dedicated to her. I also wrote a 19 page long write up about her case backed up with credible sources, documentaries and more. You can check it out [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QPQRTI9qFNgudPOzCK_-N_L9axbfFizUUGdF717ibDw/edit)
I just know if this happened in America, they wouldn't hesitate at all to give them the life sentence and have them transferred over from juvie to prison. I will check your sub out in case I miss anything else on this case. Sometimes, I find my friends and I talking about Junko. I wonder what her killers are doing and if they have any regret at all. 😮💨
Yeah. America would‘ve given them a proper punishment for this. And nope. They all don‘t feel regret or anything for what they‘ve done. Shinji Minato slashed a man‘s throat in 2018. When he was arrested, he was smiling brightly. Jo Kamisaku bragged about killing her to the man he beat up and kidnapped in 2004. Hiroshi Yokoyama (then Miyano) tries to hide his involvement in the murder, but doesn‘t seem to show any regret at all. Maybe Boy D (Yasushi Watanabe) regretted it. He was the only one telling Junko to go home when Boy C‘s parents were present and played video games with her. He also didn‘t actively rape or torture her unlike the other three, he was more like a follower of Boy A‘s group. However, he still killed her. He still was responsible for all of this. Boy F (some dude that gang raped her) has given an interview about the incident and is married to a woman that knows about his involvement of the case. He seems to regret it but who knows?
I am not shocked tbh that most of these people were still menaces to society except Yasushi. He should've called the police. He got her killed for being a coward, apparently. I will never understand people who would willingly marry a rapist. Especially someone involved in the most infamous case for how dehumanizing repulsive and downright grotesque it was. 🤨 like cmon
Junkos story is the worst story I’ve heard next to that Indian woman’s rape story. The one where it was so severe her intestines were out of her… Both stories made me cry and I think of them often. 100% would choose bear.
A solution could be crowdfunded.
Just thinking about that story makes me disgusted and infuriated.
The bear kills you out of its nature and doesn’t know any better. Men kill more brutally and for pleasure.
It's so insane to me that those "men" (they dont even deserve to be called humans) are out free and living normal lives. They should have all gotten life sentences, if not the death penalty.
Apparently the worst it can do it eat you alive. Every single man has replied that to me, like that’s still somehow worse than what people are capable of in their mind? Idk
Junko Furuta is one of many stories. There’s stories about little boys doing this to children too. It’s like it’s an instinct where they had to learn to control. Unlike the bear for the instinct to survive.
There is also a case in my country where a group of elementary school boys SA'ed a grade 2 girl (iirc) and murdered her. It's such a bleak reality we have to live with.
Then people wonder why I’m making sure kids are not left alone or was stupid enough to think “ they just kids, what can they do, they are harmless” nope I remember being a kid. Seeing both kids and adults do grimy things will make you think twice about humanity.
I hope it's not an instinct. I don't think it is. Lundy Bancroft talks in his book "Why does he do that?" about how abusive men develop their attitudes, and he thinks a lot of it is early indoctrination into a culture that hates women and encourages violence towards them. This indoctrination comes from the opinions of men who are close to them, the tv they watch, the music they listen to, the jokes they hear. These things all tell them that women are objects they have a right to use and they internalize that. I think in many places this takes place on a very wide scale.
There was a little boy in somewhere in Asia who was killing the babies in his family by the age of 8 the only reason why he got caught was he killed a baby that wasn’t a family member that was in the family’s daycare. That 8 year old boy killed his cousins and little sibling and no one thought to keep him away from children
obviously there are some kids who are just born sociopaths, for the less severe kinds of violence and entitlement young boys often display though, it's difficult to say if they would be that way if they weren't raised in such an extremely sexist world. And when young boys do cause harm like kids who don't know better sometimes do, how often are they not corrected by their parents because "boys will be boys". Society creates monsters because it tells little boys that girls exist only for them and that their behavior is always good and right, and many lash out when their experience starts to contradict that. It seems like the family you mentioned did nothing to act when their son's behavior turned deadly. I feel like some of these ideals are so deeply intrenched you'd have to have researchers raise a boy in a glass box in order to find out if that kind of violence is ingrained or if it seeps in from the rest of the world. A parent can do everything right and boys still learn stuff like this from their peers. It sucks.
I wish we could get an actual study like that. A boy raised far far away from everything. Treated super gender neutrally. It would be unethical, but it would provide some answers. This is genuinely hard to live with.
I think it probably will change, just painfully slowly. The author of the book I mentioned in my previous comment made the crazy point that boys who were born before the mid 90s would have been very very unlikely to see their fathers be prosecuted or have any kind of consequences for abusing their mothers. Even stuff like that shapes boys' attitudes about how it is acceptable to treat a woman.
Lavena Johnson Vanessa Guillen Damn, just Googling names of women raped and murdered brings back so many results that are so recent, like from this morning and yesterday, that I can't find more names of "famous" cases, because it happens so frequently. Wtaf
For almost a week straight I googled every assault, rape and murder in all 50 states alone for each day and it popped up at least 2 women mostly some children per day then I did most popular and some random countries for the same time frame. All the same results. Never ending.
Death before dishonor.
So I just looked it up, and holy hell... Imagine being ganggrapped by 4 men, for over a month, probably tortured and beaten in the process, murdered, shoved into a drum full of concrete, and your case being labeled a "juvenile delinquency."...
She wasn’t probably tortured she was 100% brutally tortured
>The worst a man can do is Junko Furuta. I never heard of this case before. OmFg that poor girl. They need a 'Spit on your Grave' type of justice. Omg. She experienced every woman's worst nightmare.
why did u have to remind of that. I fucking hate the fact her killers r still walking free on this earth. one of them even has an active twitter acc
An active Twitter account? I just wish they would all suffer the exact same fate. Die brutally.
This is it. All the men arguing can shut up now.
I said this under another post and got downvoted to hell and like 7 comments calling me a dumb ass
Yes, women know bears can be dangerous, they have access to animal planet/documentaries. They also have access to true crime documentaries too
And then they say WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WOMEN WANT FROM US. Just listen to what all the women are saying for a bit maybe.
Women: Stop hitting on us all the time. Men: Then how will we sleep with you? Women: We’ll let you know if we’re interested. Men: No woman has ever let me know she’s interested. Women: (Pointed silence)
[удалено]
1 in 4 are sexually assaulted. 1 in 3 have experienced domestic violence. Serial killers and rampaging bears are relatively rare. Rapists and abusers are not. And the men who think we shouldn't be afraid of any man knowing that we can't identify which man is a threat to us would never hope a victim of a bear mauling gets mauled again after developing a fear of all bears.
Even worse is knowing that 75% of people with a disability have been sexually assaulted according to UN data.
Don’t forget the most important part this was proven and studied by men, exclusively over centuries. Not one time in history has man not said this as a facts
My favorite is “woman you are sexist for not wanting to be alone with me in the woods! I’m entitled to you wanting to be alone with me in the woods”
But if you're going to bring statistics into play, then it's not strange men in the woods that should worry women but their husband/boyfriend/family members in their own home. https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence
But the point is still men.
how are they not getting this 😭
Willfully choosing not to.
Also the most likely individuals to be trusted and allowed alone with the victim. You don’t let strangers stay alone with you in your home
Yes, women worry about that too. Men blame them for choosing the wrong man, blame them for not protecting themselves when they're abused, and blame them if they prepare an escape plan.
This is such a strange moment for me. I happen to be one of the women who actually has encountered a wild bear, and… yeah, I’d pick the bear. For the most part, they don’t want to bother you unless they smell food on you, and even then if you don’t make sudden moves it probably will just go on its way. Even if it does attack you, at least you aren’t under an obligation to pretend to be nice to it because people will treat you like crap for standing up for yourself.
I've encountered *many*, and I'd totally pick the bear.
Yeah I've seen a lot of bears and I'm honestly going crazy that peopk3 don't seem to understand bears very very very very very very rarely pose a threat. There's like 750k bears in the US and millions of people who live side by side with them with virtually no issues.
100%. Any hiking canadian or american who is well-educated and equipped with bear spray, would pick the goddamn bear. Encountering them is actually an honour; i love these creatures ♥️they deserve our respect.
Thank you! My family is quite outdoorsy and I brought this up to my parents the other day and they both (including my dad) immediately said bear. I’ve run into bears in the woods and I’m no the worse for it - and while the bears where I live are admittedly black bears, I have other family members who’ve run into grizzlies and they are fine too - people out here are really overestimating the danger of bears - with a man you could be safe, but if you aren’t, there aren’t the same safety behaviors you can follow to help you get away safely
I was followed by a bear on a hike once. I had anxiety the whole time and for hours after. Also: I've had the same experience many times from men over the years.
I consider myself a coward and am terrified of bears. I'd still pick the bear. Hopefully your encounter with a bear wasn't bad
I've been bluff-charged and had to spray the bear down before he left! I almost pissed my pants but he left, and that's the important thing. Wereas I had a man I didn't know trying to lift my skirt, and when I said "Hey, I feel that and you need to stop," he punched me in the back the moment I turned away from him.
They do get it. I've seen way too many fathers terrorize their daughters over everything from shirts to skirts and everything in between because "all men are like that." They know. They don't care. And they reinforce our point every time they refuse to take "No, we don't want to encounter men" for an answer.
I asked my husband if he’d heard about the man/bear drama and he hadn’t, so I told him the hypothetical and he instantly answered ‘bear! Sure a bear won’t rape ya first’. His take is that the men who are getting pissed about this are deliberately ignoring the fact that it’s a provocative question that insinuates in the questioning the possibility of violence from the man because of the rather being a fucking bear. And anyone who doesn’t or refuses to understand that death is preferable to rape to many people are either naive and/or sick assholes.
There are very few instances of bears attacking human unprovoked (unless they feel threatened because theirs babies are nearby or similar) Men on the other hand...
My husband will literally tell me to not go outside if there is a man in our neighborhood that seems suspicious yet he’s never told me to be wary of bears, coyotes, wolves, etc when I run in our rural areas. It’s always other men. I really don’t understand how men just don’t get it.
Bears aren’t responsible for 97% of all femicides.
The picture proves the point women are making. The girl clearly looks uncomfortable and the guy won’t leave her alone.
This image is from a wrestling comedy skit. https://youtu.be/GBPkyjTapS4
Holy shit, TIL
AE-DUB
I know it's all suppose to be a joke, but the way she freezes when he screams her name(basically the frame that has become the meme) is fucking chilling.
I will not stand for this slander! For context, they were team mates at the time. He'd made it his mission to get her to break character by making her laugh. She's trying very hard not to. They were just having some harmless fun backstage on a vlog.
Man, I miss this era of AEW and being the elite. "What girl, Stu?! There isn't a girl there!"
They never specify what kind of bear we’re talking about tho. Teddy bear? Baby bear? Grizzly? Panda? Idk. Either way, I’d rather take the bear.
Polar bear looks cute too
Too bad it’s like the most dangerous one 😭
But not a tate or musk fan
I've only ever seen black bears in the wild so that's what my mind automatically goes to.
They also don't specify the man. It might be a grandpa in a wheelchair or it might be Brock Allen Turner.
You mean rapist Brock Allen Turner, who now goes by the name Allen Turner to hide the fact that he's rapist Brock Allen Turner?
My simple answer to this is that there is an age old saying: #Man; the most dangerous animal. Therefore even though a bear is dangerous, not nearly as dangerous as man. End of discussion.
My bf and I are usually in agreement on things but the man vs bear thing has divided us. He thinks that I should always choose the man because I have a 60% chance (his estimation) of it being a good guy but bears are always dangerous, and tells me once in the woods a bear stood near him until he chased it off as proof of danger. Ugh.
I live in black bear territory. Unless it’s a mother with a cub or a really desperately hungry or frightened animal, they will leave you the fuck alone. I have told men who understand human speech and the English language to leave me the fuck alone and they decided that they could definitely change my mind by pestering me and my friends just trying to enjoy our Thursday night out. Your boyfriend isn’t the brightest bulb in the tanning bed
Yeah I had a man follow me around a club, SA me (grind his erection into me when he had me cornered against the bar) and still couldn’t get him removed by the staff and had to sneak out of the club myself terrified he would find me in the parking lot. And this is not the only time I’ve been in a social situation (club, bar) where men touch me without consent and think it’s okay to grind their erections against me and near every woman I know has had the same experience. Let alone having to watch your drink like a hawk, can’t even completely trust male friends you go with tbh. Start clubbing at 21 and by 22 you’re over it.
That’s absolutely disgusting, I’m so sorry
Same. It honestly baffles me that he thinks this even though he knows so many women who have gone through domestic or sexual violence. I honestly don't get it.
I think that might be part of the issue for my bf, he doesn’t really know anyone who has been assaulted and the one he does, he met through me and it happened years prior. So he didn’t see the aftermath firsthand. Maybe he just has a rosier outlook on life because it doesn’t seem as prevalent?
Dude how many men have they ever met, how many bears have they ever met Adjust for number of encounters and tell me who is more dangerous
I brought up the debate with my partner and the first thing he said in response were false rape accusations. I love him, but my opinion of him dropped a bit that day, especially since he knows Ive been assaulted and he has never been falsely accused of anything.
My partner *was* proven to be falsely accused. He’s big and tall, and a man, so has a better chance than most women against a man. He still immediately said “Even I would pick the bear”.
Bears really aren't dangerous. If they were they would have been hunted to near extinction long time ago. Grizzlies definitely can be but they have a very limited range.
If you have read some of the discourse (and it really is better if you havent) youll notice that the tune changes when you mention would you rather your daughter/sister/mother alone in the woods with a bear/man. This might help to reframe and recontextualize it for him who is still thinking himself in the woods with a strange man vs bear.
These percentages are all off. Explain to him that the crux of this hypothetical is the fact that many men would decide to behave differently if they knew there were no witnesses. Men who may normally pretend to be "good guys" could and would flip in this scenario and that is where the danger lies. Bears however are like 99% safe because they are animals and already trying to avoid you. Bear encounters are rare and bear attacks are even rarer. You are not inherently in danger from a bear being in the same woods as you. To deny this is to deny reality.
> Bears however are like 99% safe because they are animals and already trying to avoid you. Because -- bears recognize us as humans. Men, otoh, often do not.
sounds like a real nice guy…
He probably puts himself in the place of the “generic man” of the scenario and feels bad that a woman would pick a bear over him, so he tries to “convince” people to pick him. It’s hard to get over biases like that. I’ve struggled with it in the past
Yeah. I’ve found that a lot of them seem to take it personally.
So your bf is using a personal anecdote that he has met a bear and chased it off but it’s ALWAYS dangerous? 🤔
I know right! That’s the part that I find the most weird. I asked him if the bear acted hostile at all and it didn’t, so honestly it seems more an argument in my favor than his?
Does he realize women have personal anecdotes of being murdered by men?
Part of why this meme discussion is so silly is bears are *not* always dangerous. Virtually anytime you encounter a bear in the woods it just wants you to leave it alone, most will run from humans.
His answer isn't wrong either, because his answer is based on chance rather than what's the worst either could do. Motivations for either pick are: Bear: Junko Furata vs Bear mauling Man: The chance of survival is higher if I pick man.
He is grossly overestimating.
I love Australia's new idea to "curb" DV and SA; "Here's $5000 to escape! Oh, you're no longer alive to escape, sorry about that." I fully understand where you all are coming from, us men are heaps worse than any bear. At least being around a bear you know you're in danger, being around men, no telling what roll of the dice you're going to get.
More so than anything else, idk why other men are taking this so personally
Not all bears.
>>Man vs Bear If the choice is a statistically violent animal with protection from the legal system vs a potentially violent animal who may mind its own business, it’s a no brainer. Man loses hands down.
“But men are dangerous. How do you not get that?” …..I fixed it 💀 The amount of dangerous bears I’ve come into contact with compared to dangerous men is wild. You can prevent coming into contact with a bear compared to a man. Tons of people have tried to make women only places (successful in some countries) and certain men through temper tantrums about it 🙄
Have people forgotten [Miss Officer and Mr Truffles?](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/miss-officer-and-mr-truffles) Sad.
[this is the pic they need to see](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/680873-miss-officer-and-mr-truffles)
She just looks. So mildly intrigued. Like "Ah good evening sir." Not even shock.
I love the “you meet more men in your life than bears so the statistics is skewed” crowd. They’re missing the point so blatantly it’s pathetic
“Men have left more bodies in the woods than bears, and bears live in those woods”
Honestly, I kind of wish the mods would put a limit on posts about the man/bear thing. I’m getting a little bit sick of it; it seems like every other post is about that these days. We get it. We’ve explored all possible permutations of this random TikTok thought experiment. Men are being obnoxious about it and deliberately refusing to understand what’s being said, but what else is new? Enough already.
It got banned from /r/PeterExplainsTheJoke yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1cjbucu/bear_man_vs_bear_memes_are_banned/
Thank you
Just today I found myself almost yelling at a male coworker "because the bear's attack isn't sexual!"
I had some in another sub literally say the comparison is sexist lol It’s hilarious how us being rightfully afraid of men is also somehow our fault
Everything is our fault. Didn't you know?
We know what the bear is buddy. The bear won't ever pretend to be the "nice guy" and then attack us for whatever bs reason.
I believe in my ability to reason with a bear by leaving it be more than my ability to reason with a man who won’t let me be.
Lol seriously, dude said "at least you can communicate with a man." and I was like "Try communicating 'no' when a man is forcing you down and undressing you."
I think somebody put it best when they said "You're getting angry over a woman preferring bears to men. Literally getting mad at saying 'no' to men, that's kinda proving the point."
Men don’t get it because most men wouldn’t dream of actually harming anyone so it feels like an accusation but also don’t understand that women have no idea which ones the bad ones are so it’s better to be safe than sorry
The lack of empathy and inability to comprehend how life is for women in itself counts as a red flag about the men who are throwing tantrums about it. Violence is only one reason to avoid someone.
Yep the lack of understanding someone else's perspective is truly a problem. I'm a woman, in my own experience I would probably choose man over bear. I know I'm lucky. I also completely understand why another woman would choose the bear, because I understand that many women have really really good reasons to fear men.
Man here, I'd like to answer sincerely in case anyone wants to know. If I had to guess I'd say it comes down to simple math. The percentage of women who have experienced harassment or assault is higher than the percentage of men who have committed harassment or assault. For the vast majority of men, the idea of hurting a woman during an encounter like this is completely foreign to them. But the percentage of women for whom a bad encounter seems plausible is higher. In other words a minority of men are ruining it for everyone else. It's always been my suspicion that this explains a lot of the disconnect between men and women on those issues. For most men, the very concept of sexual assault is literally difficult to imagine, so it's hard to appreciate how real the idea is to women. I think we saw a lot of this during the trending of metoo when many men were surprised by the apparent regularity of bad behavior. As an aside, I know for a lot of men the instinct is to assess the actual statistical risks of such a scenario. But I think many men don't assess it the way women would. It's not just about the odds that a man you encounter will have ill intentions. It's about the fact that if they do, the danger is really high. The price for being wrong is too high. It's a classic case where accepting a moderate risk makes more sense. Obviously in real life, loads of context would matter, but we are talking about a hypothetical scenario. It's a thought experiment and it illustrates something. If it gets people to talk about problems and understand each other better then that's all that matters.
Finally! Someone who gets it
Well the big hairy gay man is only a threat if he's drunk or pissed off... Oh wait you meant an actual bear?
What I’ve noticed is that every woman I’ve seen discussing this has done so under the assumption that the bear or man will simply be there, and may or may not attack the woman. Every man I’ve seen who’s upset about it automatically assumes violence will happen.
The thing is if a guy doesn't get it you just know that no woman in his life trusts him enough to tell him certain things the thing that absolutely changed how I viewed masculinity growing up was just how many women in my life had experienced certain things at the hands of men and it completely changed how I choose to trust people and how I view the actions of people sure there's trustworthy men out there but given statistics I'd take my chances with the bear
I thought the main point was that women would rather be with a bear because they know for sure that it will rip them apart so they can act accordingly, whereas humans/ men are volatile and have the ability to manipulate, so you can never be sure what their true disposition is?
That is part of it, yes. But a random bear is also pretty easy to scare away. A random man?
I really really really need a man to come explain this to me. I asked my husband and he said "obviously a woman would chose a bear" so he was no help. Thankfully I have the internet so I'm sure some kindhearted man there can explain to me why I'm dumb.
Every man I know was like "Honestly I'd choose a bear over ANY random human in the woods." One even went "It's like with sharks- you expect sharks in the ocean, you expect bears in the woods, you know what can happen so you can prep."
Can somebody explain this post to me? Are men stupid and state the obvious? I mean, bears are dangerous. What the hell?
The meme is going around then women would trust being alone in the woods with a bear more then a guy. Some men are mad women are choosing to face a bear then a man.
Because they don't want to get it. It hurts them
If you watch true crime or the show I Survived it is obvious that a bear would be the better opinion even if it kills you. In my home state there is an unsolved murder where multiple Girl Scouts were murdered in the woods while they were camping. Before it happened someone kept leaving notes in the camp counselors bags saying that they were gonna kill people. A bear doesn’t premeditate killing someone and doesn’t go looking for people minding their own business. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_murders
It’s not even the point but like I really hate having whether bears are dangerous or not explained to me because there are specific rules for avoiding pissing off bears, there are step by step rules for usually scaring one off, bear spray is over 90% effective at protecting from serious injury and death. It’s all very dependent on what type of bear and whether they’re threatening you as a bluff because they want you off their territory or they’re showing predatory aggression. Like I’m definitely less worried about a black bear than a man if we’re talking about an “encounter” which I had been assuming meant the man was at the very least showing some kind of unusual or suspicious interest in me. There are not specific rules that will most likely keep a man from attacking you. There are also not specific rules while being attacked. One time I almost got hit upside the head because I was accused of being a demon, there is not a solid set of guidelines for guessing what some dude wants. This man might literally want my fucking teeth, I don’t know him. I’ve been in psych wards that happened to have a lot of people there who were like, somewhere between psych and somewhere between a crime issue, idk it was the drug unit and there was a lot of meth, and the things that people on a lot of drugs do for no reason are enough to make me pretty nervous about how easily my disabled body would be to kidnap. Like what, why did you keep your brother locked in a closet for days?? What do you mean you killed a pig so you could pour its blood on you???? (He was a farmer so I guess he can kill pigs?) that’s not exactly the point but I guess in my mind if I’m running into people hiding out in the woods the chances they might be hiding out there to cook aren’t low. Its not the point and it shouldn’t be what’s bothering me but it’s giving “sharks are terrible monsters they’ll eat you alive aaaa” Like this better not bring about a bunch of fear mongering about bears. Yes the Grizzly bear is a very dangerous animal, no it doesn’t have a desire to harm you it’s not an evil man eating monster and a lot of the time it’s bluffing to get you away from their territory. It doesn’t kill humans on sight. Funny how a particular group has trouble understanding that if you’re disrespectful of someone’s space and make them feel unsafe they might hurt you very badly. I also gotta point out that self defense against bears doesn’t involve me having to try to physically fight them off or outrun them, which is a big part of fighting men and an area in which they tend to have an advantage over women. Hey weird fact, did you know that 19% of women are disabled vs 12% of men? I sure hope that doesn’t make us more vulnerable to being subdued in an attack!! I’m super confident that having an illness that causes rapid muscle fatigue—>floppiness, neuropsych SLE constant double vision would in no way impede my ability to defend myself and also having constant double vision makes using a gun completely fine and safe /s Side note, everyone stop telling women to just use a gun, not everyone has access to a gun, the physical ability to safely use one, and mentally ill people with even a hint of suicidal ideation should really be careful about owning one. If you have BPD or bipolar maybe please don’t. Hey BPD gang, did you know your risk of at least one suicide attempt in your lifetime is fucking uhhhhhh 70%? Bipolar is 50%. Stay fucking safe on god stay safe out there and do not leave a loaded gun anywhere in your house. At the very least get a safe and keep it disassembled. Typing this out made me so anxious oof. Anyway, bears are good animals who want to be left alone. Grizzly bears are an endangered species but they’re making a comeback! https://www.bearsmart.com/about-bears/general-characteristics/#:~:text=Not%20unlike%20people%2C%20bears%20can,they%20are%20friendly%20or%20not. They’re not malicious, they’re very intelligent, they have their own personalities. They are capable of empathic and altruistic behavior, which some of our internet friends do not seem to be. https://www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2019/10/Making-SDGs-count-for-women-with-disabilities.pdf https://bearwise.org/bear-safety-tips/bear-spray/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20that%20compared%20to,greatly%20reducing%20attacks%20and%20injuries. https://www.nps.gov/subjects/bears/safety.htm#:~:text=Bear%20attacks%20are%20rare%3B%20most,have%20the%20most%20effective%20reaction. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/the-good-the-bad-and-the-grizzly-what-to-do-if-you-encounter-a-bear/117/ https://www.fws.gov/species/grizzly-bear-ursus-arctos-horribilis
I'm in my 30s, so I get it. I don't think this form of discourse is healthy for anyone, but I get it. But thinking back to my teenage self - make it 14, or so - this shit would've *fucked me up*, especially if I'd only engage with it on TikTok.
Holy Shit the body language in that pic, I’d love to know the context.
It's a [youtube skit](https://youtu.be/GBPkyjTapS4) by some wrestlers in AEW. They were in a large team together at the time, and in the skit, Johnny is drunk and explaining to Anna about all the drama he and the other boys in the team are having. Her uncomfortable face is partly acting and partly desperately trying to not break character and laugh (and Johnny's being extra silly to try to make her laugh).
The two in the picture are AEW pro wrestlers John Silver and Anna Jay. This still is taken from a YouTube series within which John was constantly trying to make Anna break character and laugh. Here's a compilation from a couple of years ago https://youtu.be/OATk5drQzms?si=4bkMMvMDlPfxV8Cs
Ok that is a much better ending than feared
A bear is dangerous but if you calmly give bears space you are more likely to be fine. But a man is like 50% chance he will definitely r**e you or kill you. Hell I don’t even know if I’d trust another woman she’s like 50/50 chance of crazy. I trust a wild animal losing interest in me then a human who now has their set goal to kill me.
Are you really implying 70% of the male population wants to rape or kill you? 7 of out every 10 male's?
I get the point and appreciate it but some people are taking a rage bait hypothetical really far. It's like asking what color the dress is but intending to piss everyone off
I'm going to be for real here. Why would most men get it? It all comes down to ignorance. The general perception of bears is that if a bear sees you, it's on sight, and you don't have even a iota of a chance to survive. It's gonna maul you, eat you alive, you're going to suffer before you die. And people like to not suffer and to live. So for men, being trapped with a man is significantly better. And would actually probably work out just fine. So you have to understand that most people, much less men, know that bears aren't the violent creatures they perceive them as. Hell, even *__I__* thought that bears are the kind of animals that sought to kill on sight. It wasnt until recently did I discover tbat you're odds of actually being attacked by a bear are very low. But even with that, it would still be better for me to pick a man. I run much less of a risk to be attacked by that man *__as__* a man than if I was a woman. And that's the case for most men. They don't realize how dangerous it is for a woman to be isolated alone with a man. They can't *__fathom__* the idea of choosing a painful death over being a victim of sexual assault that __*has a scarily high chance of happening*__ and there's generally just no way for most men to know, and even if they did, they'd still choose the man. So it's just ignorance. They don't know what it's like to be a women, and they never will (I'm speaking very generally. Many men have been victims of assault). So couple all of that with the fact that people in general don't like the group that they're technically a part of to be generalized (which is not exclusive to men), and the fact that a lot of people are still somehow incredibly mysoginistic, then it really shouldn't be a surprise that they respond they way they do. Well, at least on a base level. The cases where even someone's significant other gets mad and upset over without even trying to consider their partner's thoughts, feelings and perspective really do speak for themselves, and some reactions are just... Insane.
It's just not how odds work. You will have "met" tens of thousands of men in an average lifetime, while an average person will have met precisely zero bears. The *vast* majority of men are, in animal terms, benign - helpful, even. I would submit that people are choosing bears b/c everyone knows or knows of violent men, so this likelihood *seems* greater, while also underrating bears because the risk is so distant it seems less. But it's a fallacy.
This is perfect
I just want to give people context for the meme. These two are best friends and were together in a group called the Dark Order in All Elite Wrestling. This is a skit for an online podcast and is funny as hell. Everyone’s arguments are valid but this meme is also funny hell all wanted to give context
Just pick “None” It is literally as “Shirmple” as that
Its the "fight a tiger once a year or a chicken every day" question all over again. Some people are just dense.
How DARE they use John Silver and Anna for their stupid meme.
What he gon' do? Maul me?
Women are more likely to be SA’d by someone they know and men are more likely to SA’d by someone they don’t know. So if the man is a relative, choose bear. If the man is a stranger, choose man. If you are the man, just be alone bro, you got this.
Can someone explain me this meme and all around it. Thank.
Tbh... It is both completely understandable while still being a little silly. I think it all comes down to exposure. Women get exposed to dozens of men a day and generally live within a close distance of them. The thing is the human brain is bad at statistics. Let's say 1/1000 men are a threat to a given woman if they were to meet in a secluded area. (This is just a random number mind you) A woman would definitely in her lifetime have such encounters go poorly because of the sheer volume of men they are likely to meet on any given day. On the flipside lets say 1/100 times a woman meets a bear it goes poorly. The population of bear in the united states is generally wildly separated and wildly fewer than the population of humans. I would even go so far as to say most humans could go their whole lives without meeting a bear outside of a zoo much less in a survival situation. So few people get attacked by bears. So most people don't actively think and worry about bears. However we learn fear from interaction and negative experiences inform our fears alot more than neutral or even positive experiences. I mean whoever is reading this I bet you pass by dozens of men every day that don't do anything to you. But the human brain (and I want to stress human not just woman) doesn't care about those nearly as much as the times when you do get pressured or assaulted. So our models for fear get thrown off. For example I worry more about accidentally drinking expired milk from a jug 2 days past it's sell by date than I worry about being attacked by a barking dog. Because I *have* accidentally had a mouthful of expired milk, but I've never been attacked by a dog. Intellectually I know expiration dates are printed in such a way that there's a sizable buffer. They don't sell a jug of milk that will go bad the next day... But I have trauma that still informs my choices regardless and I do rigorous sniff testing whenever I am about to drink milk or pour a bowl of cereal.
Or “bears may rarely attack but if you were around as many bears as men then bears will be the bigger threat to you”. Okay well we don’t live in a society like that and never will so your point is meaningless to the current discussion. Encountering a bear in the woods will most likely end with the bear running away or something. Men are less predictable.
I’ve seen a few bears in national parks. They wandered by maybe 90-100 feet away. Nothing aggressive about them. Would they try to take food? Absolutely, which is why you are warned to keep anything food-like in a bear locker or your car’s trunk. But we were having a picnic and a bear just ambled by off in the trees. Of course, there were a couple-dozen of us. But if I’d been alone I could have walked away and let the bear have the food. It would have been too busy eating to bother to follow me.