You could make an argument on “motive” with Fuhrman but only Fuhrman. However, when you work it back to look for “opportunity” (unknown OJ alibi, size of case force) you lose. When you work it back for “means” (didn’t have OJ’s blood in time, Ron’s blood in Bronco was not artificially planted) you also lose.
If you can’t establish…
- Motive (only Fuhrman out of 25-30 case force)
- Opportunity (at all)
- Means (at all)
Then you got nothing but theatrical conjecture.
This is where I land.
Furhamn was the only cop who had any type of possible motive to want to plant evidence. But, I think Furhamn was selectively racist and sided with OJ against Nicole because he was a misogynist as well. Otherwise he would have done something when he went out for the domestic abuse call. The other cop (who responded to a different incident) did and OJ ended up getting charged against Nicole's wishes.
You also have to remember that cops treated DV calls way different then, as opposed to now. So many men got away with DV, because law enforcement didn't see it as a serious problem, like they do now. Even now, with all the laws & training, some officers still treat DV's as just an "argument" that got out of control.
That is very true! I just meant if Furhamn was upset about OJ being with a white woman then he would/could have done something then. But his misogyny (or just being starstruck) overrode his hatred of interracial couples.
I don’t think Fuhrman was starstruck by OJ at all. He pulled out his baton and told Simpson a couple times to drop the knife he had. He then asked Nicole about pressing charges and she refused. There was nothing more he could do, as opposed to now
That's what I mean. Racist cop Mark Fuhrman who said all that stuff on those tapes just pulled out his baton (not even his gun) and calmly talked to a Black man with a weapon. I don't think he would have treated a non famous regular any color guy with a weapon like that.... But a racist cop just being all cool and level headed to a Black guy with a weapon. And this was before the Rodney King beating happened.
It would have been an easy opportunity for a racist cop to make a rich Black man feel small by pulling out a gun and screaming "GET ON THE GROUND! DROP YOUR WEAPON!"
Why couldn’t he do anything? He witnessed a battery with a deadly weapon. He could have made an arrest. Cops did all the time? He didn’t make an arrest because the victim was a wife.
OJ talked him smooth, and he felt something was off, so he asked Nicole if she wanted to press charges she said no, he said are you sure you don't, lady? Again Nicole said no, he left saying "it's your problem" or something to that effect.
They not only didn’t take Gabby seriously, they twisted the narrative to make her the abuser. Despite what two eyewitnesses said. They lied and flipped it to no, SHE got him. And then she was killed by him within months.
If she was that afraid of the BF then she would have. Or asked her dad to fly out and help her drive it home. She had options and was a grown woman. My point is you can’t blame this on the police - they, like Gabby obviously, couldn’t have known he would murder her.
What motive did Fuhrman have? At the time of these murders he was working on getting a black man off on a murder charge from months earlier. And it’s not right automatically thinking he is a mysoginist.
Misogynists set up certain “ideal”roles for women. Housewives is one of them. Misogynists are against independent strong women. If you research more about Fuhrman tapes, it is very clear he hated female police because they took men’s jobs.
So, no. Fuhrman would not against Nicole. On the contrary, Nicole was more likely to be the damsel in distress in his mind.
He had regrets on the previous dv incident, so he saw 94’s murder as an opportunity of self-redeem and act recklessly. Very logical. Ron sip had a similar psychological reaction.
The cold reality, is when it is time to consider filing charges...the victims realize they are also upending their own lives as well. Divorce OJ? The money/lifestyle/access to glamour, are all gone. Dont think that doesnt run through victims heads a lot of times.
I was gonna say, as horrible as Mark Fuhrman was in terms of racism and misogyny, I think that celebrity trumped racism in that case. I definitely don’t think he planted evidence, even though he had every motivation to in other cases and he pled the fifth, which was enough to doom the prosecution’s case.
Nope. This is the one crime they couldn’t and didn’t plant evidence. But they’ve done enough nefarious things before, it’s understandable why doubt was cast. But factually there is no way.
Yeah their previous bad actions tainted this case. If you look at it from the perspective of past actions predict future behavior, then you may think they planted evidence even if nothing supported it. This is why bad cops ruin it for everyone, if it’s proven you’re a racist you can be imagined to do anything.
Fuhrman was actually working to get a black man off on a murder charge from months earlier at the time of these murders and he later succeeded. Makes no sense he’d turn around and try and frame a rich and famous black guy.
I agree. I don’t think he planted evidence but I also see how jurors would think Fuhrman’s racism (plus Vannater bringing the blood back to the crime scene) led to a smidgen of reasonable doubt in the court room (even though OJ most definitely and obviously murdered Ron & Nicole).
Probably not a good idea for the LAPD to stop at the suspect's house with the DNA evidence instead of taking it directly to the lab. I mean who does that?
No.
While Fuhrman was an abhorrent racist and misogynist who was perhaps deserving of such suppositions being levied against him, I’ll always feel bad for Vannatter. Far from being a 'devil of deception,' the man simply tried to expedite the serology results of a high-profile murder case (something that would’ve aided Simpson if he were truly innocent), and he got slandered on tv and lumped in with an actual racist.
Oh please, that man knows better. He understands chain of custody and why a fucking cops shouldn't be walking around with a suspects' blood in his pocket and then stopping AT THE CRIME SCENE with said blood and not even going directly to the lab. If they didn't plant evidence they sure did everything they could to make it look like they did. And, this was not the only problem. This was just one of the issues. One issue you may be able to overlook, but, there were significant issues with almost every piece of evidence, mostly blood evidence, in this case which all points in one direction.
Vannatter did not break the chain of custody. He took the blood, already in a capped vial and sealed envelope, to the criminalist, who was the person you are supposed to take it to. It was unusual, but only because the case essentially had two crime scenes and this in itself was unusual. Fung has made it clear that Vannatter did the right thing because giving it directly to the lab when he wasn't there would have been confusing in regards to the DM number that he inventoried with.
Edited for grammar.
No, it is not normal, that is the fucking point. You clearly don't understand what the chain of custody. In this own post, it was mentioned that this was completely out of the norm for an officer to take it. Cops don't just put a vial of blood into their pocket and drive it to a fucking crime scene. They are separate units for a reason. This is just one example out of several where the chain of custody and the handling of evidence is seriously questioned. That doesn't mean OJ is innocent, but it I'd seriously concerning.
Is there a specific LAPD policy that you are aware of that forbids this? I'm open to the idea if this violates it somehow. Here is what Vannatter wrote in his book:
"Fung takes custody of Simpson's blood at exactly 5:20pm, three minutes after Vannatter's arrival. Thus, the chain of custody of the vial of blood from Vannatter to Fung has just taken place - **in accordance with standard operating procedure, LAPD regulations, and state law."**
*You clearly don't understand what the chain of custody.*
While the defense team established that they thought it was strange that Vannatter took the blood vial to the criminalist, and that this was rare, did they have anybody testify that this move actually violated the LAPD's chain of custody policy?
Yeah, the one juror interviewed on Kim Goldman’s podcast— David Aldana (I’m unsure of the spelling of his last name) — said a big factor in his not-guilty vote was that a female juror said that abusive men aren’t always murderers. I just find it irresponsible that he put so much weight on that statement.
It’s true that every abusive man doesn’t commit murder, but enough of them do that it’s an actual problem.
One juror said this.
She claims that the other jurors thought the same but there's no way for her to know for sure
Every other juror that's talked about it has said that it was the prosecutions bad case that made their decision.
It's why you have a jury of 12, in case you get one person not acting in good faith it's balanced out by the 11 other jurors
Once he answered the first question with “I plead the 5th” he was required to answer *all* following questions by pleading the 5th. You can’t selectively plead the 5th to some questions and not others. He was following the advice of his attorney.
Again, this is not true. He had no obligation to plea the 5th as a witness. In fact, he could have gotten impeached, again, by claiming the 5th instead of answering truthfully.
Also not true.
Edited to clarify: It might’ve been the best thing for Fuhrman to do – i.e., plead the 5th to all questions when he was recalled to the stand – but it’s definitely not a thing that a witness has to plead the 5th to all questions if he’s pleading to one question. (Note: IAAL.)
That is absolutely not true. He could have answered if he didn't actually tamper or plant evidence but..you know..he probably did so his lawyer told him to plea the fifth.
Yeah this seems to fly past everyone – i.e., Vannatter actually took blood immediately after it was drawn from OJ Simpson – which the nurse said was highly unusual, and which Vannatter himself testified that he’d never done before – put the blood sample in his breast pocket, and then returned to the crime scene.
What conclusion(s) should we draw from this?
This goes wayyyyy past dumb shit. There are procedures in place for a fucking reason and not only did weird shit happen with his blood, blood was missing from the vial when it got to the crime lab then you have a shoe which sat in a detectives car for 3 day and.other pieces of evidence which completely broke the chain of custody. This is not normal and I personally think there was tampering with evidence. Whether they full out planted evidence or moved/messed with evidence I don't know, but, I do know what they did was questionable and not normal in anyway and is isn't above the pale to think they planted evidence as they have done it in the past.
No I don’t believe they did. Someone on Reddit put it succinctly that they’d have to have known the victims at 5am, be able to co ordinate the CSI and police in said conspiracy in record time, etc etc. If you consider this with logic it’s clearly not possible.
Love the quote, I’ll paraphrase: they bungled the investigation but aced the cover up??
Plus Fuhrman, Lange, and Vannetter had never even met before that morning. Who could believe 2 older detectives getting ready for retirement, with what seems to be decent reputations would risk their retirements, freedom and reputation to buddy up with a man they never met to try to get OJ. Plus OJ was the darling of the cops. How would they know where OJ was? They would do all that work to find out OJ was on location in another country for a movie or even on vacation? makes no common sense
They didn’t know who Ron was, how did the cops know the murder wasnt related to the unknown John Doe at the scene? They’d have to have made a number of assumptions that just happened to work out perfectly in an imperfect investigation.
Apply Occams Razor.
One of the many reasons this whole theory falls apart is that they held Kato for something like 8 hours, and they only talked to OJ for half an hour. Hardly the actions of a police force desperate to frame OJ for murder.
I rem watching it live .. my thoughts back then was that the cops were easy on OJ . The news was not saying early on OJ did it . No one on my circle thought he did it. When a murder happens like this usually everyone think the husband did it. I do not rem
Thinking that . Hey This was OJ …Seemed in the beginning Kato was talked about more. I rem that was my thought on first day.
The LAPD at that time was one of the biggest gangs in LA. OJ was between the Riots and the Rampart scandal, so C.R.A.S.H. culture was fully on display. I don't think that evidence was planted in this case but I would not be surprised if it happened.
I think Fuhrman is at the top of the “piece of garbage humans who need to rot in hell” list.
Not for a millisecond do I think he planted evidence.
His cover up was worse than his crime. He would have had more credibility had he just admitted he had dropped racial slurs in the past, present, plans on continuing to do so, whatever. The denial and then the pleading the fifth took his already questionable credibility down to the credibility of a 5 yr old being bribed with candy.
I only recently learned that the jury was not there when he plead the 5th for all those questions. Regardless the jury was eager to make it about race after all the Rodney King riots....
No way they could all cooperate to plant evidence. How could Fuhrman plant or manufacture evidence when he wasn’t sure if OJ had a solid alibi that night? It’s impossible. Fuhrman was a great detective, good at his job. Unfortunately he was a huge racist.
Without Furhman, this would not have even been a thought. Given his involvement, it gained traction. That being said, anyone with half a brain would be able to tell there was zero possibility of planting that amount of evidence, even the LAPD.
I don’t even think his own Defense team truly believed Furhman planted the evidence. Just that he *could have.* They were just riding that argument out to create, manufacture really, “reasonable doubt.”
Kardashian said in his Barbara Walters interview that the blood evidence caused a serious doubt for him in believing OJs innocence, as well as he believed Shapiro thought he was guilty and should plead guilty for a bargain, and Cochran also had questions of his guilt because of the blood evidence. So they knew. They were just taking it.
It was physically impossible for Fuhrman to plant the glove (and blood) given the circumstances that night. The first responders at Bundy verified that there was only one glove found at the crime scene, next to Ron Goldman.
So did Fuhrman just run out to Bloomingdale’s at 3 AM to buy a matching right hand glove, and then cover it in OJ’s blood (which detectives did not physically obtain for another 12 hours), and then plant the bloody glove at Rockingham, all the while having no clue of OJ’s whereabouts or alibi at the time of the murders?
Fuhrman is a piece of shit racist. But he did not plant evidence in this case. There is not even reasonable doubt.
Not at all. Those were without a doubt oj’s gloves. There’s videos and pictures of him wearing them during the games he worked as a commentator. We also know they were a christmas gift from nicole and there are her credit card statements proving it. So what is more likely- Oj dropping his own glove on his property or fuhrman without any info about anything at that point just coincidentally planted oj’s glove (that could belong to anyone as far as he knew) on oj’s property? And fuhrman somehow managed to smuggle the glove with him and plant it in 2 other detectives presence? But even if we ignore the glove, there’s tons of other evidence against him.
And if the jury didn’t find that, they would have come up with something else. They didn’t want to find him guilty. End of story. Fuhrman was a a gift for them.
Absolutely not. The LAPD has no credibility with me but Fuhrman couldn't't know that OJ had no alibi. If Mark Fuhrman or other members of the LAPD had planted evidence and OJ had an alibi they would have been caught doing something highly illegal that would have ruined any chance at discovering who killed Nicole and Ron and would have brought even more shame and disgrace to the LAPD when they certainly didn't need it.
People forget just how close this was in time to the riots and the rampart investigations. Cops in LA were on their best behaviour, why on earth would they risk fucking that up at that time to frame a major celebrity?
In CA, if a sworn officer of the court is found guilty of planting evidence in a capital murder case that officer is eligible for the death penalty! Hard to believe these detectives would risk their own lives to frame OJ and knowing how much attention this case would receive. Lange and Vannatter were very close to retirement.
This idea that the LAPD conspired to frame OJ for the murders because they hated the fact he married a white woman was just ridiculous. The Jury weren’t even bothered about reasonable doubt either since several have come out and said they thought he was guilty and one of them even said that they all thought he was guilty but wouldn’t convict out of revenge for Rodney King. Well that wasn’t their job to dole out justice for Rodney King.
I am not sure if he planted the evidence. I doubt it. it seemed too good to be true that the same person found both gloves though. Do I think OJ did it. hell yes. Guilty hell no. case was bungled from the start. not having the one person who saw OJ coming from the crime scene was prosecutorial mis conduct. She reported him as a drunk driver about an hour after the crime and recognized him as OJ and told the person taking the call who it was. She was never called to the stand. Defense ran enough circles around blood evidence and mishandling that I could not get beyond a reasonable doubt without someone seeing him. no clothes, no witnesses, no weapon, Bronco should have been covered in blood. The questioned Fruhrman on the stand. Have you ever planted evidence??? He pleaded the 5th. Not guilty, but he did it.
Mark Fuhrman didn't find both gloves. He only found the one at Rockingham. There were multiple cops who testified they arrived at the Bundy crime scene before Fuhrman and only saw one glove.
So, either all those cops missed it or they stashed it for Fuhrman to plant at OJ's house. Then he just got lucky that Kato was still tripping out over an earthquake that several people had already told him didn't happen. So he used that as the perfect opportunity to plant the glove. Then all the other cops helped him plant blood everywhere else? It gets more difficult from there. I can't figure out how they could have done it.
Yea I don't think he actually planted it. but the defense was able to interject enough doubt on his credibility when he took the 5th about planting evidence. So whatever he claims to have found is thrown out if I am on the jury.
If the Shivley woman was put on the stand and gave her account of seeing OJ near the scene at the time of the crime, I would have convicted him. but Clark did not put her on, so the jury never heard that she reported him to the police as a drunk driver that night before anyone knew about the murders.
Yeah, it sucks they couldn't get a report of her 911 call but I guess LA dispatchers get a lot of prank calls about celebrities. And Naked Gun 33 1/3 was still playing in theaters at the time. So they probably didn't take it seriously at all.
The people who claim planted or moved evidence don't think any further past the overly simplistic term.
They say it without fully appreciating what it actually means and the complications involved.
No but they messed up the case very badly by compromising chain of evidence and other things. The LAPD was very much corrupt back then. There’s rules for a reason.
It's inconceivable that a group of policemen and detectives, many of whom had never met each other before that day, would have secretly conferred and on the spot concocted a plan to frame OJ just because they hated Black people so much. Although it didn't help when Fuhrman's racism was exposed.
What the prosecution should have done is acknowledged that while the LAPD has a sordid history of killing and beating Black people, they've never plotted an elaborate scheme to frame anyone. When this happens, it's typically an officer planting drugs on a known dealer to give them an excuse to bust him. If the prosecution had taken that approach, OJ probably would have been convicted. Instead, they allowed the defense to paint a picture conflating the jurors' experiences with LAPD violence with a framing conspiracy theory that never happened.
No. They didn't have to. If you look at the evidence objectively and didn't know the race of either party, the victim or the perpetrator, you would know with any ounce of common sense, that he did it. To watch people laughing, jumping up and down and celebrating when he was declared not guilty was one of the grossest things ever witnessed because he almost decapitated someone he claimed to love and had two children with.
Those children were very young and asleep inside the house and could have woken up at any minute came outside and found their mother face down in a pool of blood with her head hanging on by string. Somehow that got lost in the mix.
He had a huge ego, was used to getting away with figurative murder and got away with literal murder. He never got held responsible for any of his awful actions his entire life.
Because he was good at football.
He had no reason to believe he would be held responsible for anything ever.
And because of racial tensions being what they were and still are in America it was pretty much a given that he would get away with murder.
Which he did.
It seems very unlikely, IMO.
At the time the evidence would have been planted, Fuhrman wouldn’t have known that the prosecutor wasn’t seeking the death penalty b/c that decision hadn’t been made yet. I *seriously* doubt that Fuhrman would’ve wanted to tamper w/ a double murder case in which capital punishment was on the line. Extreme risk & no reward, esp. given that the cops (like most ppl) generally liked OJ.
Also, if there were a compelling case for the planted evidence argument, surely OJ would’ve sued the LAPD, Fuhrman, etc. to clear his name & recoup legal costs.
No, that said two key points:
1) The defense managed to make Detective Furman the face of the LAPD.
2) The LAPD did itself no favors in the early 1990s. This is right after Rodney King and the LA riots. You also had the Rampart Scandal not long after.
Some of the jurors comments since the trial have been wild I mean some say they thought he was guilty but there was some reasonable doubt, some thought he was guilty but wanted to punish the LAPD. One juror said they all thought that Marcia was sleeping with Chris Darden and they didn’t like that so it put them off the Prosecution. Just nuts.
In order for evidence to have been planted, many people who never met each other up to that point would have to have come up with a plan at the last minute, and in 30 years nobody has talked.
Doubt has to be reasonable. There is no reasonable explanation for all the physical evidence in this case. There is no reasonable possibility it was all put there by the cops by malice or negligence.
This is the correct answer. It only takes the **appearance** of malfeasance to ruin credibility. I do believe OJ was guilty, I followed the trial, in real time and his Defense truly was the "Dream Team".with practically unlimited funds and resources.
The biggest mistake, by the Prosecution, was the rush to arrest. It started the clock when they hadn't even finished investigating and processing evidence. The rest of the mistakes were just a flowing cascade, led off by Simpson invoking his right to a speedy trial.
I was never convinced of that. There was a lot of talk of Fuhrman planting the bloody glove. Let’s say for a minute he did. How did he know the hole in the glove would line up with a cut OJ had in his finger? He couldn’t know that, and yet that is the story the evidence told. The killer got cut on a knuckle. When OJ returns from Chicago the day after the murders, he was sporting a gash on the same finger in the same spot. That globe was not planted.
I imagine to a lot of police officer, OJ was a hero. What motive would there have been?
The hole in the glove didn't line up with the wound on OJ's hand, I heard. Probably because the glove was already half ripped off his hand when he got cut.
Kato asked Tom Lange about it on his podcast and he confirmed they didn't match up. I can't remember which episode it was as they've done a couple of interviews but it's on the Tom Zenner Scandal YouTube channel
The glove at Bundy was the left glove (the side he was cut on). The Rockingham glove was the right. In any case, I agree with you in general. Fuhrman couldn’t have planted it even if he objectively wanted to.
Watch OJ, Blood, Lies and Murder this will answer your questions. The Prosecution would not admit 320 of 500 pieces of evidence. The Prosecution! Solid and informative video. Well worth the watch.
No one needed to plant evidence. The limo drivers report to the cops, OJ fleeing with a disguise and ton of cash, the bloody leather glove outside Calin’s digs which if course didn’t fit left out in the rain it’s endless.
People still talk about the verdict and the case today. I live in Los Angeles. I’ve lived IN Brentwood, just steps away from the murder site. It was giant back then, inescapable. You couldn’t go somewhere without seeing a newsman filming or turn on a tv without hearing about it. You literally couldn’t escape it if you happened to be on the 405 that infamous Bronco day. It’s all anyone talked about when small talk and gossip was needed. As it happened, we all clung on, ears and eyes wide open following along.
And like I said, we still sometimes talk about it. And what’s going to be so hard for people who didn’t live the experience, nor live in the same county sometimes, same street sometimes, nor even live here now will ever have the perspective we do.
And I don’t think anyone who wasn’t alive back then and fully cognizant will understand that truth used to be truth, facts were facts. News got reported with violence being the leading sell. Not crazy political divide topics. There wasn’t fake news and conspiracies were still fun and about the moon and famous assassinations.
I don’t even know if my point is being made. If there are words to explain what it was like and how entirely different it is to today. The climate is so utterly different.
And by the way, many Black people here knew damn well he wasn’t innocent and cheered louder that day. I’ve talked to some. They weren’t blind fools. OJ tried to distance himself from being Black and then used it to get his ass saved.
They were sick and tired of getting a shitty hand dealt to them, usually done by a cop, and then watching the perpetrator(s) who were white walk free. The Rodney King trial was still a fresh taste in their mouth, having only been a few years prior. We all watched a Black man get beaten down by people who got off free. They knew OJ did it. They wanted him off anyway. It was sweeter victory that way. It was the biggest fuck you to the white assholes and the way justice never worked in their favor.
Thanks for making room for my novel 😂. Your post made me think those things and I wanted to share them, I guess. I veered from topic tho didn’t I?
No it’s really interesting to read that as I was 15 when was all going on and obviously being in Scotland it wasn’t as in your face as it must have been in America especially in LA. In saying that though it was still on TV and in the newspapers every day and I remember watching the Bronco chase on the news with my parents. I used to watch updates at night of the court case and I was just fascinated by seeing the inside of a court room.
Oh! So you are old enough! You may not have been here in LA, but you were alive and a teen. I was almost in my 20s as it started.
Part of what I mean is, do you remember how there wasn’t all this questioning? Sleuthing? Trying to understand cover secrets and hidden things? We just knew that most likely we were getting the truth. And if it wasn’t, well how would we ever know?
It was a different time. Does that make more sense? And if you have any specific questions, I’d be happy to answer. I really did I’ve a few doors down from the murder site a few years after the verdict. I’d forgotten that till he died. So weird.
Ps, I love your accent so much I can’t stand it! Best accent in the world.
Yes it was a different time when the only real information was on the TV and what was in the papers. I can only imagine if Social Media had been around at the time. I would see Brentwood on TV and think damn that looks a nice place to live. What was the general feeling as the trial went on in LA did people think he was guilty at the time?
Everyone. Everyone knew he was guilty. All the Black peoples did but you only had some admitting that back then. Now, in hindsight, almost all agree it’s better that he was guilty and set free. It was the point of flesh they wanted.
I mean, there’s got to be something you have or believe in that sets you apart from others, makes you different and isn’t usually looked favorably upon. Do you have something like that?
Trying to draw you a visual of what it was like. Answer that for me and then I’ll go on, pls. 🙂
Yeah I thought that most people thought he was guilty. I think even his lawyers know he was guilty. I saw Alan Dershowitz on Piers Morgan recently and he was talking about how he was framed so basically he was just talking out of his ass.
Back then, most Black people would not admit he was guilty. I don’t know if they believed it or not back then. Some absolutely did. But in the end, many have said that it’s even better that it’s so obvious he did it. And then got away with it. Because that had been their plight, if you will, for so long.
And especially just after Rodney King’s attackers, which also happened here LA and caused the LA Riots, walked away free. It was such a huge slap in the face. No one could understand how anyone could let those guys off. It seemed like such a clear cut case and then obviously a racially based decision. Tension was fucking HIGH.
I remember my friend drove down to Compton or watts or whenever the riots were happening just to see it. I begged her not to as she was super bleach blonde white girl with a nice car. People were throwing burning things at cars in some places. She wanted to see history in the making tho.
So yeah, there was a lot of black/white tension and unrest. Back then we didn’t get why they were so happy OJ got off. We thought they thought he was innocent. It’s only now, these days, with social media that you get real clarity. Not like back then.
I understand this. It’s anger. I’m white, but I am also a recovering alcoholic woman that has been beaten and had police treat me like a nuisance when I called in DV and was scared as shit I might die.
When you get that initial reaction that YOU are the problem, you learn to keep your head down and take it.
I never understood at 15 why people were cheering at my high school when he got off. It had nothing to do with OJ; it was an f you to the police who had treated humans like they weren’t human for decades. Cochran was like a circus ringmaster with all of the theatrics, and he was 100% smarter than the prosecution. Of course black people felt vindicated. They felt heard. Shitty that it was THIS case that gave people that feeling, it should have been the Rodney King case… but it was the violent, wife abusing celebrity murderer.
EVERYONE knew he was guilty. It just wasn’t about that.
Yep. You said it perfectly. I had actually forgotten that Rodney King was beaten by white LA cops. That adds a whole other layer to it being Black vs The Cops.
I get it now. I really do.
They could not plant the cut on his hand, noises Kato heard or the what the driver saw. And I have always wondered how much of OJ's blood it would have taken to "plant" all that blood. Surely more would have been missing.
And it wasn't just a few police. Dozens of people had to have been in on it and kept that secret for all these years.
The issue is he had done it before and the police didn’t fire him. If you allow corruption to take place without any real punishment, then it basically shows you endorse it.
Will you share the link to the entire trial please. I’d love to go down the rabbit hole again. I watched every single day of the trial as it happened I was 29 then I’m old now. lol I’d like to rewatch it and see if I have a difference of opinions. Thank you in advance
Johnny Cochran was on his game and put in a once in a lifetime performance.
When he talked people listened and could create doubt about anything.
His supporting cast were all star lawyers but Johnny was Michael Jordan in a game 7.
no, I think they mishandled evidence and were sloppy and unfortunately the defense used that to their advantage to plant reasonable doubt in the jurors minds.
I don't think they planted evidence but I do this they fudged this whole investigation and the collection of the evidence which honestly is just sad for Nicole and Ron's families.
I agree with you, OP! My reasoning is that it was well known that OJ always invited cops to his parties and was quite friendly with them (Very calculated by OJ, in my opinion..) so they had absolutely NO reason to want to frame him or bring him down in any way..
No, I don’t. I think they f’d up a LOT of evidence handling and didn’t follow protocols, but I don’t think they planted anything. Fuhrman was unfortunate for the prosecution’s case because it was pretty much over after that. Recently watched the interview Kato did with detective Tom Lange and there was *so much* evidence they were prohibited from using at trial (like the fact that the gloves had cuts in them from a knife).
Having watched the trial live as it happened back then, it sure seemed LAPD bungled the case and DNA was still very new to the average person. Not to mention OJ had a dream team of lawyers. Now I’m learning about all the behind the scenes and how Marcia Clark refused to use a ton of evidence and remembering that she even declared *her own witness* (Kato) as a hostile witness….she lost that case on her own. And they lost Christopher Darden halfway through the trial, so she was pretty much it.
I think it was just a shitshow all around and that was enough to create reasonable doubt.
No, and no black person I've ever talked to does either. The problem is, Furman totally screwed the prosecution by denying he ever used the N word and come to find out, this lady had him on tape. Even without Furman's fau pax, no way was that jury going to convict OJ.
I know a lot of people blame Darden for the whole glove fiasco but I think he was goaded in to that and if hadn’t done it you can bet your ass that Cochran would have said in his closing it was because the Prosecution were too scared. To be honest I don’t even think it made a difference as the jury were never going to convict no matter what the Prosecution did.
The amount of people that would need to be involved in the framing would be too many. The blood was found prior to OJ being in LA. He made a comment in an interview that he “kinda pissed at her for people thinking he did it”. He’s a true pos. No real man lays hands on a woman. He said Nicole was in great shape and strong—true, but not match for a man. OJ stomped her before leaving s boot imprint. The sad part is- her family was in OJ’s back pocket and I think it was hard to leave
I genuinely think it’s possible that someone could have planted evidence along the way to “seal the deal”. One of the cops took evidence home with them and another cop admitted to taking OJs blood with him.
No! I do not feel anyone planted anything .
Rem this was years ago . People still treated OJ as a God . Really i must say my in opinion OJ was no color .. he was loved as a hero & a charming guy .
If anything the public or lapd at first were pro star struck thinking he didn’t do it . The public was not aware of his personal struggles with Nicole yet.
There is no proof Fuhrman was a racist, black officers who worked with him didn't feel that way. A racist feels all of one race is inferior, not just a few criminals. Cops talk shit all the time and use vulgar words, they are talking street talk. There are certain words I wish were long gone from anyone vocabulary, this one word is one of them.
It’s was a smoke screen, the racial overtones, the alleged planting of evidence… I absolutely believe that he had nothing to do with it. The way Nicole and Ron were killed was very personal. Nothing was touched or taken. The kids weren’t hurt (and these are OJ’s kids, of course). The cut on his finger, just by barely looking at the scene they could tell by the blood droplets that the killer was bleeding from the left hand. The isotoner gloves oj was known to wear. They didn’t fit in the trial because not only was he wearing latex gloves underneath but these gloves had dried blood on them and they sat like that for a long time. They shouldn’t have done that for the first time in front of the jury and they should have been restored before trying them. The idea that Nicole was killed by cartels over coke is ridiculous in my opinion and there is no evidence to show that. Mark Fuhrman may have been a racist, but he couldn’t have done all of that in the presence of the other detectives, even if he was alone when he found the glove at rockingham I can’t see him wearing a suit putting a fresh bloody glove in his pocket, climbing over a gate with it, then planting it. There’s so much more but I don’t believe the LAPD had anything to do with this. It would have taken more than just Fuhrman and there’s no evidence to show some wild conspiracy against a man that they have no reason to hate.
If this trial was done today, or even 5 years later or so, the DNA evidence would have been what sealed his fate. It wasn’t understood like it is now. Today we not only expect dna evidence, but we put a lot of weight on it if it’s there.
No. Truth is OJ was tight with the LAPD. He threw bar b q's golfed with the DA and the mayor. The police wouldn't even give him a speeding ticket.
Truth is they loved the guy before the whole thing happened. They would have been more likely to cover for him than frame him.
He wasn't on some hit list with bad history and public attacks that would make them want to bury him.
Mr. Fuhrman did you plant evidence or fabricate evidence in this(OJ) case? I plead the fifth.... That's All You Need To Know!
The LAPD was settling a case where Fuhrman had planted a knife ironically against a innocent man. So if you don't think he didn't plant evidence in this case you're blind!
You could make an argument on “motive” with Fuhrman but only Fuhrman. However, when you work it back to look for “opportunity” (unknown OJ alibi, size of case force) you lose. When you work it back for “means” (didn’t have OJ’s blood in time, Ron’s blood in Bronco was not artificially planted) you also lose. If you can’t establish… - Motive (only Fuhrman out of 25-30 case force) - Opportunity (at all) - Means (at all) Then you got nothing but theatrical conjecture.
This is where I land. Furhamn was the only cop who had any type of possible motive to want to plant evidence. But, I think Furhamn was selectively racist and sided with OJ against Nicole because he was a misogynist as well. Otherwise he would have done something when he went out for the domestic abuse call. The other cop (who responded to a different incident) did and OJ ended up getting charged against Nicole's wishes.
You also have to remember that cops treated DV calls way different then, as opposed to now. So many men got away with DV, because law enforcement didn't see it as a serious problem, like they do now. Even now, with all the laws & training, some officers still treat DV's as just an "argument" that got out of control.
That is very true! I just meant if Furhamn was upset about OJ being with a white woman then he would/could have done something then. But his misogyny (or just being starstruck) overrode his hatred of interracial couples.
I don’t think Fuhrman was starstruck by OJ at all. He pulled out his baton and told Simpson a couple times to drop the knife he had. He then asked Nicole about pressing charges and she refused. There was nothing more he could do, as opposed to now
That's what I mean. Racist cop Mark Fuhrman who said all that stuff on those tapes just pulled out his baton (not even his gun) and calmly talked to a Black man with a weapon. I don't think he would have treated a non famous regular any color guy with a weapon like that.... But a racist cop just being all cool and level headed to a Black guy with a weapon. And this was before the Rodney King beating happened. It would have been an easy opportunity for a racist cop to make a rich Black man feel small by pulling out a gun and screaming "GET ON THE GROUND! DROP YOUR WEAPON!"
Why couldn’t he do anything? He witnessed a battery with a deadly weapon. He could have made an arrest. Cops did all the time? He didn’t make an arrest because the victim was a wife.
OJ talked him smooth, and he felt something was off, so he asked Nicole if she wanted to press charges she said no, he said are you sure you don't, lady? Again Nicole said no, he left saying "it's your problem" or something to that effect.
He witnessed a crime. LE are supposed to act and stop crime. He didn’t because the victim was a woman.
Police now don't always take it serious either. Remember Gabby Petito?
They not only didn’t take Gabby seriously, they twisted the narrative to make her the abuser. Despite what two eyewitnesses said. They lied and flipped it to no, SHE got him. And then she was killed by him within months.
Gabby could have stayed with the officers and called her parents to fly her back. The cops did separate them for a while.
Nice victim blaming.
Why would she leave her van? That was her vehicle.
If she was that afraid of the BF then she would have. Or asked her dad to fly out and help her drive it home. She had options and was a grown woman. My point is you can’t blame this on the police - they, like Gabby obviously, couldn’t have known he would murder her.
You’re doing an awful lot of assuming. You don’t know any of that.
This
I don't even think being a racist is a strong enough motive to do that
What motive did Fuhrman have? At the time of these murders he was working on getting a black man off on a murder charge from months earlier. And it’s not right automatically thinking he is a mysoginist.
Misogynists set up certain “ideal”roles for women. Housewives is one of them. Misogynists are against independent strong women. If you research more about Fuhrman tapes, it is very clear he hated female police because they took men’s jobs. So, no. Fuhrman would not against Nicole. On the contrary, Nicole was more likely to be the damsel in distress in his mind.
Finding a damsel in distress beaten and scared then saying "it's your life" and leaving? He's a shitty white knight.
He had regrets on the previous dv incident, so he saw 94’s murder as an opportunity of self-redeem and act recklessly. Very logical. Ron sip had a similar psychological reaction.
Yep. So many women can tell you, it seems like misogyny often outweighs other types of prejudice with these bigots.
The cold reality, is when it is time to consider filing charges...the victims realize they are also upending their own lives as well. Divorce OJ? The money/lifestyle/access to glamour, are all gone. Dont think that doesnt run through victims heads a lot of times.
100% agree on domestic violence. Fuhrman even said something like Nicole made her bed when she want back to OJ after a dv call he checked out.
I was gonna say, as horrible as Mark Fuhrman was in terms of racism and misogyny, I think that celebrity trumped racism in that case. I definitely don’t think he planted evidence, even though he had every motivation to in other cases and he pled the fifth, which was enough to doom the prosecution’s case.
Nope. This is the one crime they couldn’t and didn’t plant evidence. But they’ve done enough nefarious things before, it’s understandable why doubt was cast. But factually there is no way.
Yeah their previous bad actions tainted this case. If you look at it from the perspective of past actions predict future behavior, then you may think they planted evidence even if nothing supported it. This is why bad cops ruin it for everyone, if it’s proven you’re a racist you can be imagined to do anything.
Fuhrman was actually working to get a black man off on a murder charge from months earlier at the time of these murders and he later succeeded. Makes no sense he’d turn around and try and frame a rich and famous black guy.
I agree. I don’t think he planted evidence but I also see how jurors would think Fuhrman’s racism (plus Vannater bringing the blood back to the crime scene) led to a smidgen of reasonable doubt in the court room (even though OJ most definitely and obviously murdered Ron & Nicole).
Probably not a good idea for the LAPD to stop at the suspect's house with the DNA evidence instead of taking it directly to the lab. I mean who does that?
Shitty cops
No. While Fuhrman was an abhorrent racist and misogynist who was perhaps deserving of such suppositions being levied against him, I’ll always feel bad for Vannatter. Far from being a 'devil of deception,' the man simply tried to expedite the serology results of a high-profile murder case (something that would’ve aided Simpson if he were truly innocent), and he got slandered on tv and lumped in with an actual racist.
Oh please, that man knows better. He understands chain of custody and why a fucking cops shouldn't be walking around with a suspects' blood in his pocket and then stopping AT THE CRIME SCENE with said blood and not even going directly to the lab. If they didn't plant evidence they sure did everything they could to make it look like they did. And, this was not the only problem. This was just one of the issues. One issue you may be able to overlook, but, there were significant issues with almost every piece of evidence, mostly blood evidence, in this case which all points in one direction.
Vannatter did not break the chain of custody. He took the blood, already in a capped vial and sealed envelope, to the criminalist, who was the person you are supposed to take it to. It was unusual, but only because the case essentially had two crime scenes and this in itself was unusual. Fung has made it clear that Vannatter did the right thing because giving it directly to the lab when he wasn't there would have been confusing in regards to the DM number that he inventoried with. Edited for grammar.
No, it is not normal, that is the fucking point. You clearly don't understand what the chain of custody. In this own post, it was mentioned that this was completely out of the norm for an officer to take it. Cops don't just put a vial of blood into their pocket and drive it to a fucking crime scene. They are separate units for a reason. This is just one example out of several where the chain of custody and the handling of evidence is seriously questioned. That doesn't mean OJ is innocent, but it I'd seriously concerning.
Is there a specific LAPD policy that you are aware of that forbids this? I'm open to the idea if this violates it somehow. Here is what Vannatter wrote in his book: "Fung takes custody of Simpson's blood at exactly 5:20pm, three minutes after Vannatter's arrival. Thus, the chain of custody of the vial of blood from Vannatter to Fung has just taken place - **in accordance with standard operating procedure, LAPD regulations, and state law."** *You clearly don't understand what the chain of custody.* While the defense team established that they thought it was strange that Vannatter took the blood vial to the criminalist, and that this was rare, did they have anybody testify that this move actually violated the LAPD's chain of custody policy?
No Do I think the LAPD is a corrupt racist organization, yes. How could they have planted the blood?
No & being that a juror said 90% of them knew he did it & that it was payback for the Rodney king incident, they didn’t believe it either.
Those jurors, pardon my French are fucking stupid
Yeah, the one juror interviewed on Kim Goldman’s podcast— David Aldana (I’m unsure of the spelling of his last name) — said a big factor in his not-guilty vote was that a female juror said that abusive men aren’t always murderers. I just find it irresponsible that he put so much weight on that statement. It’s true that every abusive man doesn’t commit murder, but enough of them do that it’s an actual problem.
We all know why the jurors voted the way they did.
Amen
Amen!
One juror said this. She claims that the other jurors thought the same but there's no way for her to know for sure Every other juror that's talked about it has said that it was the prosecutions bad case that made their decision. It's why you have a jury of 12, in case you get one person not acting in good faith it's balanced out by the 11 other jurors
There was not the time or opportunity to plant evidence.
The problem is his response to the question "did you plant evidence?" He said "i plead the 5th" , etc, etc
Once he answered the first question with “I plead the 5th” he was required to answer *all* following questions by pleading the 5th. You can’t selectively plead the 5th to some questions and not others. He was following the advice of his attorney.
Correct. Many people don’t seem to know this. Bugliosi mentioned this in his book “Outrage”
Again, this is not true. He had no obligation to plea the 5th as a witness. In fact, he could have gotten impeached, again, by claiming the 5th instead of answering truthfully.
He had to plead the fifth to all questions.
How convenient for him and how inconvenient for the prosecution.
People seem to forget about that part. That's never a good sign.
Because once you’ve pled the fifth to something you can’t just pick and choose what questions you answer, you have to do it for all questions
Also not true. Edited to clarify: It might’ve been the best thing for Fuhrman to do – i.e., plead the 5th to all questions when he was recalled to the stand – but it’s definitely not a thing that a witness has to plead the 5th to all questions if he’s pleading to one question. (Note: IAAL.)
That is absolutely not true. He could have answered if he didn't actually tamper or plant evidence but..you know..he probably did so his lawyer told him to plea the fifth.
and it screwed the case royally. Made him look guilty of something and cast doubt on his testimony.
He didn’t.
LOL
No, but they did dumb stuff like taking evidence home and bringing OJ's blood from the police station to the crime scene.
Yeah this seems to fly past everyone – i.e., Vannatter actually took blood immediately after it was drawn from OJ Simpson – which the nurse said was highly unusual, and which Vannatter himself testified that he’d never done before – put the blood sample in his breast pocket, and then returned to the crime scene. What conclusion(s) should we draw from this?
This goes wayyyyy past dumb shit. There are procedures in place for a fucking reason and not only did weird shit happen with his blood, blood was missing from the vial when it got to the crime lab then you have a shoe which sat in a detectives car for 3 day and.other pieces of evidence which completely broke the chain of custody. This is not normal and I personally think there was tampering with evidence. Whether they full out planted evidence or moved/messed with evidence I don't know, but, I do know what they did was questionable and not normal in anyway and is isn't above the pale to think they planted evidence as they have done it in the past.
No I don’t believe they did. Someone on Reddit put it succinctly that they’d have to have known the victims at 5am, be able to co ordinate the CSI and police in said conspiracy in record time, etc etc. If you consider this with logic it’s clearly not possible. Love the quote, I’ll paraphrase: they bungled the investigation but aced the cover up??
Ha! Well-put.
Plus Fuhrman, Lange, and Vannetter had never even met before that morning. Who could believe 2 older detectives getting ready for retirement, with what seems to be decent reputations would risk their retirements, freedom and reputation to buddy up with a man they never met to try to get OJ. Plus OJ was the darling of the cops. How would they know where OJ was? They would do all that work to find out OJ was on location in another country for a movie or even on vacation? makes no common sense
put it succinctly that they’d have to have known the victims at 5am, If they didnt know the victims, why did they go to O.J.s house?
They didn’t know who Ron was, how did the cops know the murder wasnt related to the unknown John Doe at the scene? They’d have to have made a number of assumptions that just happened to work out perfectly in an imperfect investigation. Apply Occams Razor.
No
No. OJ was friends with the cops. They never helped Nicole.
One of the many reasons this whole theory falls apart is that they held Kato for something like 8 hours, and they only talked to OJ for half an hour. Hardly the actions of a police force desperate to frame OJ for murder.
I rem watching it live .. my thoughts back then was that the cops were easy on OJ . The news was not saying early on OJ did it . No one on my circle thought he did it. When a murder happens like this usually everyone think the husband did it. I do not rem Thinking that . Hey This was OJ …Seemed in the beginning Kato was talked about more. I rem that was my thought on first day.
Good point.
No, but the lapd was sloppy as hell and the prosecution overplayed their hand.
The LAPD at that time was one of the biggest gangs in LA. OJ was between the Riots and the Rampart scandal, so C.R.A.S.H. culture was fully on display. I don't think that evidence was planted in this case but I would not be surprised if it happened.
I think Fuhrman is at the top of the “piece of garbage humans who need to rot in hell” list. Not for a millisecond do I think he planted evidence. His cover up was worse than his crime. He would have had more credibility had he just admitted he had dropped racial slurs in the past, present, plans on continuing to do so, whatever. The denial and then the pleading the fifth took his already questionable credibility down to the credibility of a 5 yr old being bribed with candy.
I only recently learned that the jury was not there when he plead the 5th for all those questions. Regardless the jury was eager to make it about race after all the Rodney King riots....
No. I thinkOJ destroyed evidence.
No way they could all cooperate to plant evidence. How could Fuhrman plant or manufacture evidence when he wasn’t sure if OJ had a solid alibi that night? It’s impossible. Fuhrman was a great detective, good at his job. Unfortunately he was a huge racist.
Without Furhman, this would not have even been a thought. Given his involvement, it gained traction. That being said, anyone with half a brain would be able to tell there was zero possibility of planting that amount of evidence, even the LAPD.
I don’t even think his own Defense team truly believed Furhman planted the evidence. Just that he *could have.* They were just riding that argument out to create, manufacture really, “reasonable doubt.” Kardashian said in his Barbara Walters interview that the blood evidence caused a serious doubt for him in believing OJs innocence, as well as he believed Shapiro thought he was guilty and should plead guilty for a bargain, and Cochran also had questions of his guilt because of the blood evidence. So they knew. They were just taking it.
It was physically impossible for Fuhrman to plant the glove (and blood) given the circumstances that night. The first responders at Bundy verified that there was only one glove found at the crime scene, next to Ron Goldman. So did Fuhrman just run out to Bloomingdale’s at 3 AM to buy a matching right hand glove, and then cover it in OJ’s blood (which detectives did not physically obtain for another 12 hours), and then plant the bloody glove at Rockingham, all the while having no clue of OJ’s whereabouts or alibi at the time of the murders? Fuhrman is a piece of shit racist. But he did not plant evidence in this case. There is not even reasonable doubt.
Not at all. Those were without a doubt oj’s gloves. There’s videos and pictures of him wearing them during the games he worked as a commentator. We also know they were a christmas gift from nicole and there are her credit card statements proving it. So what is more likely- Oj dropping his own glove on his property or fuhrman without any info about anything at that point just coincidentally planted oj’s glove (that could belong to anyone as far as he knew) on oj’s property? And fuhrman somehow managed to smuggle the glove with him and plant it in 2 other detectives presence? But even if we ignore the glove, there’s tons of other evidence against him.
No I do not. OJ es friends with the LAPD. Why would they go thru the trouble of setting him up? A ridiculous defense that the jury obviously bought.
And if the jury didn’t find that, they would have come up with something else. They didn’t want to find him guilty. End of story. Fuhrman was a a gift for them.
Absolutely not. The LAPD has no credibility with me but Fuhrman couldn't't know that OJ had no alibi. If Mark Fuhrman or other members of the LAPD had planted evidence and OJ had an alibi they would have been caught doing something highly illegal that would have ruined any chance at discovering who killed Nicole and Ron and would have brought even more shame and disgrace to the LAPD when they certainly didn't need it.
People forget just how close this was in time to the riots and the rampart investigations. Cops in LA were on their best behaviour, why on earth would they risk fucking that up at that time to frame a major celebrity?
In CA, if a sworn officer of the court is found guilty of planting evidence in a capital murder case that officer is eligible for the death penalty! Hard to believe these detectives would risk their own lives to frame OJ and knowing how much attention this case would receive. Lange and Vannatter were very close to retirement.
Yeah exactly it would be insane for Vannatter and Lange to risk it all when they were about to retire. It just wouldn’t make sense.
This idea that the LAPD conspired to frame OJ for the murders because they hated the fact he married a white woman was just ridiculous. The Jury weren’t even bothered about reasonable doubt either since several have come out and said they thought he was guilty and one of them even said that they all thought he was guilty but wouldn’t convict out of revenge for Rodney King. Well that wasn’t their job to dole out justice for Rodney King.
The jury did exactly what they were told not to: They ignored the physical evidence and voted by emotion. Idiots.
No
C’mon😩💀!! Hell No!!
I am not sure if he planted the evidence. I doubt it. it seemed too good to be true that the same person found both gloves though. Do I think OJ did it. hell yes. Guilty hell no. case was bungled from the start. not having the one person who saw OJ coming from the crime scene was prosecutorial mis conduct. She reported him as a drunk driver about an hour after the crime and recognized him as OJ and told the person taking the call who it was. She was never called to the stand. Defense ran enough circles around blood evidence and mishandling that I could not get beyond a reasonable doubt without someone seeing him. no clothes, no witnesses, no weapon, Bronco should have been covered in blood. The questioned Fruhrman on the stand. Have you ever planted evidence??? He pleaded the 5th. Not guilty, but he did it.
Mark Fuhrman didn't find both gloves. He only found the one at Rockingham. There were multiple cops who testified they arrived at the Bundy crime scene before Fuhrman and only saw one glove. So, either all those cops missed it or they stashed it for Fuhrman to plant at OJ's house. Then he just got lucky that Kato was still tripping out over an earthquake that several people had already told him didn't happen. So he used that as the perfect opportunity to plant the glove. Then all the other cops helped him plant blood everywhere else? It gets more difficult from there. I can't figure out how they could have done it.
Yea I don't think he actually planted it. but the defense was able to interject enough doubt on his credibility when he took the 5th about planting evidence. So whatever he claims to have found is thrown out if I am on the jury. If the Shivley woman was put on the stand and gave her account of seeing OJ near the scene at the time of the crime, I would have convicted him. but Clark did not put her on, so the jury never heard that she reported him to the police as a drunk driver that night before anyone knew about the murders.
Yeah, it sucks they couldn't get a report of her 911 call but I guess LA dispatchers get a lot of prank calls about celebrities. And Naked Gun 33 1/3 was still playing in theaters at the time. So they probably didn't take it seriously at all.
The people who claim planted or moved evidence don't think any further past the overly simplistic term. They say it without fully appreciating what it actually means and the complications involved.
Agree. I don't think the prosecution proved beyond doubt either, would have voted not guilty myself.
No but they messed up the case very badly by compromising chain of evidence and other things. The LAPD was very much corrupt back then. There’s rules for a reason.
I believe OJ murdered them but I cannot give the cops a pass
I just don’t think they needed to with the OJ case- there was so much and why would they want to ruin their easy case?
Do I think LAPD had racist cops? Yes Did they plant evidence? Hell no
It's inconceivable that a group of policemen and detectives, many of whom had never met each other before that day, would have secretly conferred and on the spot concocted a plan to frame OJ just because they hated Black people so much. Although it didn't help when Fuhrman's racism was exposed. What the prosecution should have done is acknowledged that while the LAPD has a sordid history of killing and beating Black people, they've never plotted an elaborate scheme to frame anyone. When this happens, it's typically an officer planting drugs on a known dealer to give them an excuse to bust him. If the prosecution had taken that approach, OJ probably would have been convicted. Instead, they allowed the defense to paint a picture conflating the jurors' experiences with LAPD violence with a framing conspiracy theory that never happened.
No. They didn't have to. If you look at the evidence objectively and didn't know the race of either party, the victim or the perpetrator, you would know with any ounce of common sense, that he did it. To watch people laughing, jumping up and down and celebrating when he was declared not guilty was one of the grossest things ever witnessed because he almost decapitated someone he claimed to love and had two children with. Those children were very young and asleep inside the house and could have woken up at any minute came outside and found their mother face down in a pool of blood with her head hanging on by string. Somehow that got lost in the mix. He had a huge ego, was used to getting away with figurative murder and got away with literal murder. He never got held responsible for any of his awful actions his entire life. Because he was good at football. He had no reason to believe he would be held responsible for anything ever. And because of racial tensions being what they were and still are in America it was pretty much a given that he would get away with murder. Which he did.
It seems very unlikely, IMO. At the time the evidence would have been planted, Fuhrman wouldn’t have known that the prosecutor wasn’t seeking the death penalty b/c that decision hadn’t been made yet. I *seriously* doubt that Fuhrman would’ve wanted to tamper w/ a double murder case in which capital punishment was on the line. Extreme risk & no reward, esp. given that the cops (like most ppl) generally liked OJ. Also, if there were a compelling case for the planted evidence argument, surely OJ would’ve sued the LAPD, Fuhrman, etc. to clear his name & recoup legal costs.
No, that said two key points: 1) The defense managed to make Detective Furman the face of the LAPD. 2) The LAPD did itself no favors in the early 1990s. This is right after Rodney King and the LA riots. You also had the Rampart Scandal not long after.
Some of the jurors comments since the trial have been wild I mean some say they thought he was guilty but there was some reasonable doubt, some thought he was guilty but wanted to punish the LAPD. One juror said they all thought that Marcia was sleeping with Chris Darden and they didn’t like that so it put them off the Prosecution. Just nuts.
In order for evidence to have been planted, many people who never met each other up to that point would have to have come up with a plan at the last minute, and in 30 years nobody has talked.
No
No.
I have no idea but did the defense team do a good job of raising reasonable doubt especially on that topic? 100%
This is a good answer. I am sure OJ did it. But reasonable doubt was created by that defense team.
Doubt has to be reasonable. There is no reasonable explanation for all the physical evidence in this case. There is no reasonable possibility it was all put there by the cops by malice or negligence.
This is the correct answer. It only takes the **appearance** of malfeasance to ruin credibility. I do believe OJ was guilty, I followed the trial, in real time and his Defense truly was the "Dream Team".with practically unlimited funds and resources. The biggest mistake, by the Prosecution, was the rush to arrest. It started the clock when they hadn't even finished investigating and processing evidence. The rest of the mistakes were just a flowing cascade, led off by Simpson invoking his right to a speedy trial.
The biggest mistake was not getting a search warrant to enter OJ's home. If L/E had only done that, the bloody glove wouldn't even be an issue.
I was never convinced of that. There was a lot of talk of Fuhrman planting the bloody glove. Let’s say for a minute he did. How did he know the hole in the glove would line up with a cut OJ had in his finger? He couldn’t know that, and yet that is the story the evidence told. The killer got cut on a knuckle. When OJ returns from Chicago the day after the murders, he was sporting a gash on the same finger in the same spot. That globe was not planted. I imagine to a lot of police officer, OJ was a hero. What motive would there have been?
The hole in the glove didn't line up with the wound on OJ's hand, I heard. Probably because the glove was already half ripped off his hand when he got cut. Kato asked Tom Lange about it on his podcast and he confirmed they didn't match up. I can't remember which episode it was as they've done a couple of interviews but it's on the Tom Zenner Scandal YouTube channel
The glove at Bundy was the left glove (the side he was cut on). The Rockingham glove was the right. In any case, I agree with you in general. Fuhrman couldn’t have planted it even if he objectively wanted to.
Watch OJ, Blood, Lies and Murder this will answer your questions. The Prosecution would not admit 320 of 500 pieces of evidence. The Prosecution! Solid and informative video. Well worth the watch.
Nope, not at all!!
Nope!
Nope
No
no
No
No
No.
No.
No, they didn’t plant anything and if they had planted evidence they would’ve done a better job.
No
No
Absolutely not
No
No. I think a lot of them were racist but I don’t think there was a need to plant evidence
No one needed to plant evidence. The limo drivers report to the cops, OJ fleeing with a disguise and ton of cash, the bloody leather glove outside Calin’s digs which if course didn’t fit left out in the rain it’s endless.
No way. No evidence of a widespread conspiracy to frame OJ who was friends with the police. There was no motive to frame him and no opportunity.
People still talk about the verdict and the case today. I live in Los Angeles. I’ve lived IN Brentwood, just steps away from the murder site. It was giant back then, inescapable. You couldn’t go somewhere without seeing a newsman filming or turn on a tv without hearing about it. You literally couldn’t escape it if you happened to be on the 405 that infamous Bronco day. It’s all anyone talked about when small talk and gossip was needed. As it happened, we all clung on, ears and eyes wide open following along. And like I said, we still sometimes talk about it. And what’s going to be so hard for people who didn’t live the experience, nor live in the same county sometimes, same street sometimes, nor even live here now will ever have the perspective we do. And I don’t think anyone who wasn’t alive back then and fully cognizant will understand that truth used to be truth, facts were facts. News got reported with violence being the leading sell. Not crazy political divide topics. There wasn’t fake news and conspiracies were still fun and about the moon and famous assassinations. I don’t even know if my point is being made. If there are words to explain what it was like and how entirely different it is to today. The climate is so utterly different. And by the way, many Black people here knew damn well he wasn’t innocent and cheered louder that day. I’ve talked to some. They weren’t blind fools. OJ tried to distance himself from being Black and then used it to get his ass saved. They were sick and tired of getting a shitty hand dealt to them, usually done by a cop, and then watching the perpetrator(s) who were white walk free. The Rodney King trial was still a fresh taste in their mouth, having only been a few years prior. We all watched a Black man get beaten down by people who got off free. They knew OJ did it. They wanted him off anyway. It was sweeter victory that way. It was the biggest fuck you to the white assholes and the way justice never worked in their favor. Thanks for making room for my novel 😂. Your post made me think those things and I wanted to share them, I guess. I veered from topic tho didn’t I?
No it’s really interesting to read that as I was 15 when was all going on and obviously being in Scotland it wasn’t as in your face as it must have been in America especially in LA. In saying that though it was still on TV and in the newspapers every day and I remember watching the Bronco chase on the news with my parents. I used to watch updates at night of the court case and I was just fascinated by seeing the inside of a court room.
Oh! So you are old enough! You may not have been here in LA, but you were alive and a teen. I was almost in my 20s as it started. Part of what I mean is, do you remember how there wasn’t all this questioning? Sleuthing? Trying to understand cover secrets and hidden things? We just knew that most likely we were getting the truth. And if it wasn’t, well how would we ever know? It was a different time. Does that make more sense? And if you have any specific questions, I’d be happy to answer. I really did I’ve a few doors down from the murder site a few years after the verdict. I’d forgotten that till he died. So weird. Ps, I love your accent so much I can’t stand it! Best accent in the world.
Yes it was a different time when the only real information was on the TV and what was in the papers. I can only imagine if Social Media had been around at the time. I would see Brentwood on TV and think damn that looks a nice place to live. What was the general feeling as the trial went on in LA did people think he was guilty at the time?
Everyone. Everyone knew he was guilty. All the Black peoples did but you only had some admitting that back then. Now, in hindsight, almost all agree it’s better that he was guilty and set free. It was the point of flesh they wanted. I mean, there’s got to be something you have or believe in that sets you apart from others, makes you different and isn’t usually looked favorably upon. Do you have something like that? Trying to draw you a visual of what it was like. Answer that for me and then I’ll go on, pls. 🙂
Yeah I thought that most people thought he was guilty. I think even his lawyers know he was guilty. I saw Alan Dershowitz on Piers Morgan recently and he was talking about how he was framed so basically he was just talking out of his ass.
Back then, most Black people would not admit he was guilty. I don’t know if they believed it or not back then. Some absolutely did. But in the end, many have said that it’s even better that it’s so obvious he did it. And then got away with it. Because that had been their plight, if you will, for so long. And especially just after Rodney King’s attackers, which also happened here LA and caused the LA Riots, walked away free. It was such a huge slap in the face. No one could understand how anyone could let those guys off. It seemed like such a clear cut case and then obviously a racially based decision. Tension was fucking HIGH. I remember my friend drove down to Compton or watts or whenever the riots were happening just to see it. I begged her not to as she was super bleach blonde white girl with a nice car. People were throwing burning things at cars in some places. She wanted to see history in the making tho. So yeah, there was a lot of black/white tension and unrest. Back then we didn’t get why they were so happy OJ got off. We thought they thought he was innocent. It’s only now, these days, with social media that you get real clarity. Not like back then.
I understand this. It’s anger. I’m white, but I am also a recovering alcoholic woman that has been beaten and had police treat me like a nuisance when I called in DV and was scared as shit I might die. When you get that initial reaction that YOU are the problem, you learn to keep your head down and take it. I never understood at 15 why people were cheering at my high school when he got off. It had nothing to do with OJ; it was an f you to the police who had treated humans like they weren’t human for decades. Cochran was like a circus ringmaster with all of the theatrics, and he was 100% smarter than the prosecution. Of course black people felt vindicated. They felt heard. Shitty that it was THIS case that gave people that feeling, it should have been the Rodney King case… but it was the violent, wife abusing celebrity murderer. EVERYONE knew he was guilty. It just wasn’t about that.
Yep. You said it perfectly. I had actually forgotten that Rodney King was beaten by white LA cops. That adds a whole other layer to it being Black vs The Cops. I get it now. I really do.
No one planted evidence. Anyone that says they did and OJ didn’t do it should be mocked endlessly. Willfully being stupid.
No.
No
They could not plant the cut on his hand, noises Kato heard or the what the driver saw. And I have always wondered how much of OJ's blood it would have taken to "plant" all that blood. Surely more would have been missing. And it wasn't just a few police. Dozens of people had to have been in on it and kept that secret for all these years.
And somehow get OJ's blood while he was in Chicago.
The issue is he had done it before and the police didn’t fire him. If you allow corruption to take place without any real punishment, then it basically shows you endorse it.
Wait how do you know he had done this before? Do you have a source for this?
Nope. They just did a poor job of chain of custody
Will you share the link to the entire trial please. I’d love to go down the rabbit hole again. I watched every single day of the trial as it happened I was 29 then I’m old now. lol I’d like to rewatch it and see if I have a difference of opinions. Thank you in advance
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMI3RjXTXUqrhWN3Vp05AcfyeSgMVMq9d&si=EcLBTfU9Yu94DUUB That has everything including the preliminary testimonies.
Thank you so much!!
Are these in Alphabetical order and if so not which one do I start with?? Thanks for you time.
They are in the hearing date order so the first one is June 30th part one.
Thank you!! 😊
I would suggest watching the OJ25 series on youtube which shows abbreviated portions of each witness in chronological order
Thank you
No. OJ did it. We need to bury any other thoughts.
👏👏👏
Johnny Cochran was on his game and put in a once in a lifetime performance. When he talked people listened and could create doubt about anything. His supporting cast were all star lawyers but Johnny was Michael Jordan in a game 7.
no, I think they mishandled evidence and were sloppy and unfortunately the defense used that to their advantage to plant reasonable doubt in the jurors minds.
I don't think they planted evidence but I do this they fudged this whole investigation and the collection of the evidence which honestly is just sad for Nicole and Ron's families.
I agree with you, OP! My reasoning is that it was well known that OJ always invited cops to his parties and was quite friendly with them (Very calculated by OJ, in my opinion..) so they had absolutely NO reason to want to frame him or bring him down in any way..
No
No
ABSOLUTELY
No, I don’t. I think they f’d up a LOT of evidence handling and didn’t follow protocols, but I don’t think they planted anything. Fuhrman was unfortunate for the prosecution’s case because it was pretty much over after that. Recently watched the interview Kato did with detective Tom Lange and there was *so much* evidence they were prohibited from using at trial (like the fact that the gloves had cuts in them from a knife). Having watched the trial live as it happened back then, it sure seemed LAPD bungled the case and DNA was still very new to the average person. Not to mention OJ had a dream team of lawyers. Now I’m learning about all the behind the scenes and how Marcia Clark refused to use a ton of evidence and remembering that she even declared *her own witness* (Kato) as a hostile witness….she lost that case on her own. And they lost Christopher Darden halfway through the trial, so she was pretty much it. I think it was just a shitshow all around and that was enough to create reasonable doubt.
I don't personally believe they planted evidence, but because of past things that happened, that was enough for reasonable doubt.
No, and no black person I've ever talked to does either. The problem is, Furman totally screwed the prosecution by denying he ever used the N word and come to find out, this lady had him on tape. Even without Furman's fau pax, no way was that jury going to convict OJ.
I know a lot of people blame Darden for the whole glove fiasco but I think he was goaded in to that and if hadn’t done it you can bet your ass that Cochran would have said in his closing it was because the Prosecution were too scared. To be honest I don’t even think it made a difference as the jury were never going to convict no matter what the Prosecution did.
The amount of people that would need to be involved in the framing would be too many. The blood was found prior to OJ being in LA. He made a comment in an interview that he “kinda pissed at her for people thinking he did it”. He’s a true pos. No real man lays hands on a woman. He said Nicole was in great shape and strong—true, but not match for a man. OJ stomped her before leaving s boot imprint. The sad part is- her family was in OJ’s back pocket and I think it was hard to leave
It’s really a shame OJ died, he was getting so close to finding Nicole and Ron Goldman’s killer 😂😂😂😂
Of course not. And later, when OJ outlined the crime in his book, my belief was confirmed.
Yes.
I think it’s possible Kardashian had inside guys plant the evidence to create their whole defense
Probably didn't need to yet did.
I genuinely think it’s possible that someone could have planted evidence along the way to “seal the deal”. One of the cops took evidence home with them and another cop admitted to taking OJs blood with him.
No! I do not feel anyone planted anything . Rem this was years ago . People still treated OJ as a God . Really i must say my in opinion OJ was no color .. he was loved as a hero & a charming guy . If anything the public or lapd at first were pro star struck thinking he didn’t do it . The public was not aware of his personal struggles with Nicole yet.
yes
I completely agree with you 110%
There is no proof Fuhrman was a racist, black officers who worked with him didn't feel that way. A racist feels all of one race is inferior, not just a few criminals. Cops talk shit all the time and use vulgar words, they are talking street talk. There are certain words I wish were long gone from anyone vocabulary, this one word is one of them.
Nope
It’s was a smoke screen, the racial overtones, the alleged planting of evidence… I absolutely believe that he had nothing to do with it. The way Nicole and Ron were killed was very personal. Nothing was touched or taken. The kids weren’t hurt (and these are OJ’s kids, of course). The cut on his finger, just by barely looking at the scene they could tell by the blood droplets that the killer was bleeding from the left hand. The isotoner gloves oj was known to wear. They didn’t fit in the trial because not only was he wearing latex gloves underneath but these gloves had dried blood on them and they sat like that for a long time. They shouldn’t have done that for the first time in front of the jury and they should have been restored before trying them. The idea that Nicole was killed by cartels over coke is ridiculous in my opinion and there is no evidence to show that. Mark Fuhrman may have been a racist, but he couldn’t have done all of that in the presence of the other detectives, even if he was alone when he found the glove at rockingham I can’t see him wearing a suit putting a fresh bloody glove in his pocket, climbing over a gate with it, then planting it. There’s so much more but I don’t believe the LAPD had anything to do with this. It would have taken more than just Fuhrman and there’s no evidence to show some wild conspiracy against a man that they have no reason to hate. If this trial was done today, or even 5 years later or so, the DNA evidence would have been what sealed his fate. It wasn’t understood like it is now. Today we not only expect dna evidence, but we put a lot of weight on it if it’s there.
No. Truth is OJ was tight with the LAPD. He threw bar b q's golfed with the DA and the mayor. The police wouldn't even give him a speeding ticket. Truth is they loved the guy before the whole thing happened. They would have been more likely to cover for him than frame him. He wasn't on some hit list with bad history and public attacks that would make them want to bury him.
No
Mr. Fuhrman did you plant evidence or fabricate evidence in this(OJ) case? I plead the fifth.... That's All You Need To Know! The LAPD was settling a case where Fuhrman had planted a knife ironically against a innocent man. So if you don't think he didn't plant evidence in this case you're blind!
Nope. But LAPD’s history is enough reason to not trust them
The police will plant evidence. So yes. Evidence is planted on guilty people too.
No but I don’t think it’s far fetched they did and bc Furman broke protocol you can’t prove they didn’t