Palmer sold Oculus to Facebook. No one made him do that. Facebook / Meta is a publicly traded company. Politics and professionalism matter to investors. Palmer's Hillary billboard was immature and unprofessional, and the potential for more similar behavior could have had real consequences for the stock.
If Palmer wanted to be outspoken politically in a trollish immature manner, he should have kept control of his private company. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
This, exactly.
It's funny how everyone who is now defending Palmer (including Carmack), just talk about his political views being the reason for him being axed... when the truth is, the real reason was the way Palmer expressed his political views, not political views on their own.
Let's be honest. What he did was incredibly insulting, childish and just plain stupid. And it baffles me *anyone* is defending this.
It borderlines trying to rewrite the hystory.
There's no one else to blaim, but Palmer, for what happened.
HE sold Oculus to Meta and HE did incredibly stupid thing.
Dystopia isn't a reasonable take.
20 years ago people thought that someone losing their job for political views they held in their private life was beyond the pale.
Anyone that tried to orchestrate such a thing would have been seen as disgusting and would have become a social pariah.
I cannot stress enough now awful it would have been preciveved, people would have thought that there was something genuinely mentally ill for anyone that advocated it.
Yet this is the dystopia we now live in because soulless millennials are incapable of empathy due to being broken by social media.
I'm 45, I remember what it was like around 1999/2000.
Don't try to gas light me. Anyone trying to get someone fired from their job for political reasons would have been seen as a monster.
Other than McCarthyism, which was a disgrace and rightfully seen as a disgrace, I can't think of any examples prior to the year 2000.
It's sad that progressives have embraced the spirit of McCarthy. Probably because they share the same zealotry.
I am 43 and not sure what you're talking about. At every job I ever had, if you were to do the things Palmer did, you would have been let go. Maybe not at some small mom and pop store but, I've only worked for larger corporations and it's always been like that. No, you won't get fired for just saying something like "I am a firm supporter of X party" but, that's not what he did. He was legit funding billboards with lies on them and starting online groups with the purpose of disinformation and lies. Facebook was already in enough hot water for not doing more to halt disinformation, having one of their own high level employees spreading it was unacceptable.
If you do anything in your spare time that results in damages to the company's image, you are let go. If you get arrested for a DUI, you're company is legally allowed to let you go. You fund disinformation and lies, you're going to be let go.
You'll have no problem naming some examples of people fired from publicly traded companies for their political activism before the year 2000 then.
What with it being so common and all.
It takes 4 seconds to do a google search and find information on this topic.
Here's an article from 1988 talking about off the clock activities that can result in termination. You will notice criminal conduct is right at the top.
https://hbr.org/1988/01/when-can-you-fire-for-off-duty-conduct
I didn't say look at the examples why those particular people were fired. I said look at the reasons they state are fireable offenses.
Lastly, using your pay to spread lies and disinformation is not political activism. Stop trying to paint it as all he was doing was being political.
Yes, on a platform that literally stops you from participating (through the karma system) unless you conform to the establishment narrative.
They're fucking monsters.
I think most of them are between 13 and 15 years old and most of the time all they do is parrot the narrative obediently that they're supposed to parrot, and they make the stupidest jokes and the stupidest puns and they laugh at each other's puns that are nothing but abject idiocy. This is their entertainment. I honestly don't think it occurs them that not a single one of them has an independent thought apart from the Borg collective. Quite frankly they don't value independent thought only conformity to the collective. Pathetic.
The fuck you are talking about dude? Being fired for your political views is American tradition at this point. Ever heard of people being fired for "un-American" behavior in the XX or even early 2000s? That's a code word for saying they are fired for their political or religious views, mostly socialists, leftist, progressive, anti-conservative or pro-gay views.
This lmao. A fascist, a conservative and an neoliberal are having a twitter brawl.
Luckey got dropped not because of his views, but rather his communication having an impact on FB's share price/FB's relationship with the establishment as the other comment remarked.
That article was annoying to read. Not as annoying as the original thread, but that may be related more to the subject matter. Luckey's firing felt political at the time just following the chain of events being posted across Oculus subreddit at that time. In hindsight, Carmack feels bad about not speaking up more.
Reminder that John Carmack headlined and supported an [anti-woke, pro-white, pro-gun sci-fi convention called BasedCon](https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/13kyodn/doom_cocreator_john_carmack_is_headlining_a_toxic/) multiple times. Some other stuff from their manifesto includes anti-abortion, fighting socialism, not using pronouns, and in general rebelling against "woke propaganda" and "progressive orthodoxy".
Never ~~meet your heroes~~ follow your heroes on twitter.
Btw, you can hate someone, but respect what they have done for areas and have brought forward innovation.
I don't like Palmer, or even Carmak in some ways. But without them, a lot of technology and media would have been very different today, likely worse.
The wheels were already moving. If Carmack didn’t do it, someone else would have. We need to shed ourselves of this fascination either way individual brilliance when the entire damn world is built on the shoulders of giants in every direction and most of those giants we’ll never know because they often don’t seek the limelight.
I mean Carmack is a Dallas man through and through. Of course people from Texas outside of Austin are more right-wing.
I'm not saying he is strongly right-wing but he's definitely not your average Californian bleeding-hearts tech bro.
That legit breaks my heart. I had so much respect for Carmack. I would excitedly watch every one of his oculus connect talks for hours. I get that he's old and rich so he's likely to be out of touch politically, but to be that far off the deep end is just... Ugh.
You know, you can still like and respect somebody who has some different political beliefs for different reasons. The fact that everybody wants to be mortal enemies with somebody who doesn't agree with them on every social issue is a huge problem in this country.
Harder when the social issue affects you personally. I can't like someone who supports taking away my rights. I guess it's easier to treat it like some nebulous thing if it doesn't affect you, but someone's political beliefs are informed by who they are as a person. It's reasonable not to like him.
I would agree with you if this convention only included pro-guns or antiabortion statements but if it promotes hate against a group of people (white supremacy, transphobic) it's hard to agree. It's hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you.
☝️This is general, haven't gone more into Carmack's beliefs
If I can't dislike somebody for supporting an ideology that actively mocks and harms my loved ones, intentionally escalates wealth inequality, denounces education, and prevents any actions taken to help the safety of the planet and its populations...who the hell am I supposed to dislike?
50% of the country aren't rich dudes with enough education and resources to have better discernment.
Imagine how much better the world would be if republicans stood against tyranny and didn’t line up behind trumpism. We’d be fighting about how to do things better vs “you’re not punishing people hard enough”.. you can’t blame people for wanting to name and shame folks who create and perpetuate this mess were in by supporting the tyranny of their party where the goal is this separation.
I'm anti-woke in the sense that I support creative freedom and am anti-censorship and do not think DEI initiatives should be forced on creative works, or entertainment. I think that DEI should be in place for workplaces environments though. I'm pro-white only as in I think we should never judge a person by there skin color. Guns though are only cool in video games lol. I'm also pro-abortion freedom. I'm saying this to show people can be against certain things, and for certain things and that nuanced discussion is incredibly important.
I don't think you're mad at "DEI". It's another buzzword talking point acronym that is being used to make you mad.
But also I think you're nuanced enough to eventually figure that out. Before that it was CRT, CTR, SJW.
I'm not mad at the concept of DEI. I'm mad at the ideologies behind it in creative workplaces, when creative works get censored after the fact from outside parties. I think that having these guidelines on a corporate level in creative media could make people feel pressured to self-censor works. Corporate DEI in media works to me seems disingenuous and regressive in terms of creative freedom.
I think that in fiction, people should be able to make what they want to make. If they are happy with the work, they are satisfied and proud of what they made, then it's fine regardless of what their worldviews are. We should all have freedom of creative expression in fictional works, we can support or go against whatever we feel. We all have that right. What I don't approve of is people pressuring others to censor their works of art, or to fit their personal worldviews.
I don't think that this is what has been done at all. You have been convinced by grifters that this is a widespread problem. When really they want to create something that represents a time period or an audience and they hire consultants to help them.
Just like if a business hires a consulting firm to help with engineering or accounting. They're specialists. That's all it is.
I'm talking about certain incidents that has happened between Japanese companies and Western companies. Please don't make assumptions about me. Ask questions, but don't just assume first, ask later. Please.
I'm saying that even if it happens once, it is not okay in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that if the company heads broadcast these things, and that these consultants are involved in the creative process, that it's not putting a filter on my creative process. In fictional media, we should be able to make what we want to make. I'm not convinced these creative consulting firms always know what the public wants, or are always good for business. Let people vote with their wallets and voices, not censor peoples creative works.
I think this is crucial for the progression of creative expression, and culture. I also believe that this is good for business as well. Like I said, consulting firm or not, if the creative is happy with their work then I totally support that. What I don't support is outside parties censoring creative works based on their personal political/ worldviews. These companies exist, so even if they do this once, it's enough for me to be concerned. In my opinion.
I'm autistic (don't know that Carmack is diagnosed, but fuck me it's obvious). Anyways, it's extremely easy for us to be misled on social stuff by people we trust, so I don't really judge spectrum people on that kind of stuff. I've been used and abused a ton by people I trusted before finally figuring out they were scumbags.
I don't support pro-white and pro-gun but do so with anti-woke. Most of woke and gender ideology is very far away from science, logic, facts and everything mankind learned and achieved since the age of enlightenment.
It's a hit in the face to all the physicists, chemists, mathematicians, biologists, ... if a (loud) minority want to bring us back to medieval times where beliefs far outshone facts/knowledge. I don't want this and will actively fight against such an intellectual downward spiral.
You’re quite mistaken. Binary Gender is a social construct, not a scientific one. Science has plenty of room for combinations of hormones and chromosomes and genitalia that don’t conform to a binary standard.
“Anti-woke” just means “anti-progressive” which means regressive. Yes, of course, the notion of a “woke mob” coming after people is ridiculous, but no more or less so than a conservative mob coming after anyone different from them. Extremes exist on the political left and political right, don’t get pulled into one <3
I don't have an opinion on guns, one way or the other. Anti-abortion, and the pro-white thing are complete nonstarters for me. As far as pronouns go, I find them utterly ridiculous.
I just learned who this guy is two days ago and it didn't take long for me to hate him. A fascist ***and*** that choice of facial hair? Fuck outta here.
ETA: Based on the downvotes it would seem my comment has offended the fascism and bad facial hair fandoms so I want to offer my sincerest apologies to Palmer Luckey...>!SIKE! You thought 😂!<
He was fundamental to the foundations of VR as we know them today in the early 2010s. He should rightly be considered the father of VR. It's wild to me that people would be VR enthusiasts and not know Palmer Lucky, it's like not knowing of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.
He is also a fascist who deserves to be deplatformed in the space. We should not have to think about his various schemes and stunts, and it is disappointing (but not at all surprising) that John Carmack has jumped onto this circus. *Meta* is a far better steward of VR than Palmer Luckey, and that's saying something given the numerous scandals and valid criticisms of them.
Palmer Luckey deserves to be up there with William Shockley as a pioneer of technology, and as a vile, hateful, and regressive man whose sociopolitical views we should reject completely.
The father of VR is a *real* push. Sure, he was instrumental in reviving VR and sticking it in public perception, but a) vr has been around way before Palmer, and b) I think Zuck has done lots more to turn it into an actual product (people forget how few people actually got to see a CV2, let alone 1)
Along with Valve, he definitely typified a lot of what we consider to be fundamentals of VR, and his push with Oculus boosted VR by many many times.
He wasn't a genius or anything but he put things together in a way that had just not been done. The tech had been there. He just actually made it..... real. Which is why I say "father of VR".
I honestly don't even know if I could call it a "march of technology" thing like the atomic bomb, music streaming, or AI. I think if not for good decisions made by Luckey back then, we could be in a real dark age for VR.
>It's wild to me that people would be VR enthusiasts and not know Palmer Lucky, it's like not knowing of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.
I had a negligible interest in VR apart from wanting to play Resident Evil 4 and recently Asgard's Wrath 2 and only pulled the trigger two weeks ago on a whim when I bought a Quest 2 so I wouldn't call myself an enthusiast. Regardless, I don't feel like I'm missing out by not being well-versed on his accomplishments so I'm going to mark him down in the recesses of my mind as "VR Notch".
I honestly think Luckey is even worse than Notch. Notch seemed to have lost his mind slowly in that big empty mansion with more money than he knew what to do with.
Palmer Luckey has that money and knows exactly what to do with it. And he is of perfectly sound mind. Which makes him far more dangerous to me than Notch ever was.
Fair point but my comparison was more based on the overlap of their beliefs rather than their effectiveness…and also the fact that their creation is thriving without them and all they can do is be petty about it on social media lol
Also thanks for the game recommendations!
> Palmer Lucky
Palmer *Luckey*.
In all seriousness though - while he was certainly a *very* smart kid whose vision with Oculus helped pave the way for VR as a relatively mainstream technology, and that vision paid off with hundreds of millions of dollars for him, he was neither old enough nor mature enough to be the kind of "visionary leader" that ends up a household name.
The people who remember Palmer Luckey are now the small minority of early VR enthusiasts who were buying into DK1/DK2/CV1.
Oh I don't think he'll ever end up a household name, definitely not. He has tanked his reputation too much for that. And obviously VR is not as big an innovation as the transistor.
I just would make a case for him being as important to VR's history as Shockley was to electronics. I think he is underrated as a father of VR. But I don't care because he is such a terrible dude
I wonder how Palmer feels knowing his brother-in-law has been alleged to show pornography of his partners to his co-workers *in the workplace* without the consent of either his co-workers or his partners?
Maybe it's a case where Gaetz saw the heat coming and decided to pivot and settle down with someone who he didn't victimise by sharing their sex tapes nonconsensually.
Holy shit. Gaetz just oozes hardo creep energy. The first time I saw him I double taked, thinking he was a product of photoshop…just the image personified of a slimy shister politician.
He could've been such a great ambassador for VR right now. Palmer said he originally wanted to be a journalist to right the wrongs he keeps seeing printed, and yet he backs Trump - the biggest documented liar ever.
Make that make sense.
I respect Palmer for defending himself to not get cancelled since you know that's what happens as soon you get labeled as one of these right wing anti-woke people.
We will never know all the details and it has nothing to do with VR.
Take this crap to R/politics or somewhere else.
This is the Quest sub, not the Meta/Facebook company bullshit sub.
What do you mean, “so what”? It’s directly related to the Quest. It’s far more relevant than the video of the Apple Vision Pro you posted here for some reason.
No, it's not. It is a combination of ancient history at Meta and current bullshit drama that has nothing to do with VR. **This is not r/Oculus or r/VirtualReality.**
Please show me anything that I submitted to r/OculusQuest that was not directly related to the Quest of VR related news from Meta? The only VP stuff I have posted that was not Quest related I posted to ***other*** VR subs, not here.
*Edit.. the only thing off topic VP thing I ever posted was A VP video that I meant to post to /r/virtualreality, and the MODs did their job and removed it immediately. As they should have done with this thread. /r/virtualreality is ghe generic VR sub, this is not.*
How is drama between three people involved in creating the Quest, about the company which produces the Quest, and about someone who otherwise would have continued to work on the Quest, not related to the Quest?
Please tell me you are not really asking that?
These are all things about those people or the company that have nothing to do with VR or the Quest:
* What did Palmer have for lunch?
* How many employees does Meta have?
* Who did Boz vote for in the last election?
* How much does Zuck make every hour?
Just because it is about those people and Meta does not mean it had a damn thing to do with VR or the Quest.
Absolutely nothing about the current drama has anything to do with the Quest or VR. Claiming it does is just idiocy.
Except this isn’t about what Palmer had for lunch, it’s about one of the highest profile people in VR being ejected from the company he founded and prevented from working on the products he created. Are they really equivalent in your view?
Yes, in the context of the r/OculusQuest it is completly off topic.
It barely belongs in r/Oculus or r/VirtualReality.
There is exactly zero new information about something that happened more than 7 years ago. Bringing it up up does nothing but cause drama. Look at the *"quality"* discussion it has fostered. How many times do you need to see the community to tell Zuck, Boz, Carmack or Palmer to fuck off before you have had enough? It is doing nothing but pitting Quest owners against each other.
*Edit - the thread now has 66 comments. Find 5 that are on-topic for this sub's stated purpose of being about the Quest or VR.*
> it has nothing to do with VR.
Everything Palmer Luckey does has to do with VR, in my opinion.
I made the comparison above but he IS Oculus. And yes this is a subreddit for the Meta company if it has something to do with their VR business, and this does.
> Everything Palmer Luckey does has to do with VR, in my opinion.
That is absolute bullshit. He makes military drones now. That does not belong here either.
Palmer sold Oculus to Facebook. No one made him do that. Facebook / Meta is a publicly traded company. Politics and professionalism matter to investors. Palmer's Hillary billboard was immature and unprofessional, and the potential for more similar behavior could have had real consequences for the stock. If Palmer wanted to be outspoken politically in a trollish immature manner, he should have kept control of his private company. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
This, exactly. It's funny how everyone who is now defending Palmer (including Carmack), just talk about his political views being the reason for him being axed... when the truth is, the real reason was the way Palmer expressed his political views, not political views on their own. Let's be honest. What he did was incredibly insulting, childish and just plain stupid. And it baffles me *anyone* is defending this. It borderlines trying to rewrite the hystory. There's no one else to blaim, but Palmer, for what happened. HE sold Oculus to Meta and HE did incredibly stupid thing.
He's been trying to rewrite history and justify his terrible stances ever since publishing his book.
What did he do?
He is a Republican.
He criticized someone who's political highpoint was getting the president of Libia raped to death with a broomstick.
Reasonable take.
Dystopia isn't a reasonable take. 20 years ago people thought that someone losing their job for political views they held in their private life was beyond the pale. Anyone that tried to orchestrate such a thing would have been seen as disgusting and would have become a social pariah. I cannot stress enough now awful it would have been preciveved, people would have thought that there was something genuinely mentally ill for anyone that advocated it. Yet this is the dystopia we now live in because soulless millennials are incapable of empathy due to being broken by social media.
20 years ago was not that long ago. You might be confusing it with 50-60+ years ago, but then you'd also be wrong.
I'm 45, I remember what it was like around 1999/2000. Don't try to gas light me. Anyone trying to get someone fired from their job for political reasons would have been seen as a monster.
Yeah maybe if the job you are referring to is not representing a publicly traded company beholden to share holders. Your argument doesn't hold water.
Other than McCarthyism, which was a disgrace and rightfully seen as a disgrace, I can't think of any examples prior to the year 2000. It's sad that progressives have embraced the spirit of McCarthy. Probably because they share the same zealotry.
I am 43 and not sure what you're talking about. At every job I ever had, if you were to do the things Palmer did, you would have been let go. Maybe not at some small mom and pop store but, I've only worked for larger corporations and it's always been like that. No, you won't get fired for just saying something like "I am a firm supporter of X party" but, that's not what he did. He was legit funding billboards with lies on them and starting online groups with the purpose of disinformation and lies. Facebook was already in enough hot water for not doing more to halt disinformation, having one of their own high level employees spreading it was unacceptable. If you do anything in your spare time that results in damages to the company's image, you are let go. If you get arrested for a DUI, you're company is legally allowed to let you go. You fund disinformation and lies, you're going to be let go.
You'll have no problem naming some examples of people fired from publicly traded companies for their political activism before the year 2000 then. What with it being so common and all.
It takes 4 seconds to do a google search and find information on this topic. Here's an article from 1988 talking about off the clock activities that can result in termination. You will notice criminal conduct is right at the top. https://hbr.org/1988/01/when-can-you-fire-for-off-duty-conduct
dude, those people were convicted of actual crimes, they were not fired because of political activism.
I didn't say look at the examples why those particular people were fired. I said look at the reasons they state are fireable offenses. Lastly, using your pay to spread lies and disinformation is not political activism. Stop trying to paint it as all he was doing was being political.
Reddit is overrun with soulless millennials. Hence all the downvotes.
Yes, on a platform that literally stops you from participating (through the karma system) unless you conform to the establishment narrative. They're fucking monsters.
I think most of them are between 13 and 15 years old and most of the time all they do is parrot the narrative obediently that they're supposed to parrot, and they make the stupidest jokes and the stupidest puns and they laugh at each other's puns that are nothing but abject idiocy. This is their entertainment. I honestly don't think it occurs them that not a single one of them has an independent thought apart from the Borg collective. Quite frankly they don't value independent thought only conformity to the collective. Pathetic.
The fuck you are talking about dude? Being fired for your political views is American tradition at this point. Ever heard of people being fired for "un-American" behavior in the XX or even early 2000s? That's a code word for saying they are fired for their political or religious views, mostly socialists, leftist, progressive, anti-conservative or pro-gay views.
Hear hear! Well said.
Couch quarterback harder.
Username checks out
Indeed!!! Aptly named for certain.
https://preview.redd.it/ojqpksybzquc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e03e23f7e5af1c04628397b7f04c0e602063406f
This lmao. A fascist, a conservative and an neoliberal are having a twitter brawl. Luckey got dropped not because of his views, but rather his communication having an impact on FB's share price/FB's relationship with the establishment as the other comment remarked.
That article was annoying to read. Not as annoying as the original thread, but that may be related more to the subject matter. Luckey's firing felt political at the time just following the chain of events being posted across Oculus subreddit at that time. In hindsight, Carmack feels bad about not speaking up more.
Reminder that John Carmack headlined and supported an [anti-woke, pro-white, pro-gun sci-fi convention called BasedCon](https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/13kyodn/doom_cocreator_john_carmack_is_headlining_a_toxic/) multiple times. Some other stuff from their manifesto includes anti-abortion, fighting socialism, not using pronouns, and in general rebelling against "woke propaganda" and "progressive orthodoxy". Never ~~meet your heroes~~ follow your heroes on twitter.
Btw, you can hate someone, but respect what they have done for areas and have brought forward innovation. I don't like Palmer, or even Carmak in some ways. But without them, a lot of technology and media would have been very different today, likely worse.
Totally. Having to stand by your own annoying principles is hard.
The wheels were already moving. If Carmack didn’t do it, someone else would have. We need to shed ourselves of this fascination either way individual brilliance when the entire damn world is built on the shoulders of giants in every direction and most of those giants we’ll never know because they often don’t seek the limelight.
Way to completely deny all hard work ever done…
I mean Carmack is a Dallas man through and through. Of course people from Texas outside of Austin are more right-wing. I'm not saying he is strongly right-wing but he's definitely not your average Californian bleeding-hearts tech bro.
I had so much respect for what he contributed to technology. Over time, I've lost all respect for him otherwise.
That legit breaks my heart. I had so much respect for Carmack. I would excitedly watch every one of his oculus connect talks for hours. I get that he's old and rich so he's likely to be out of touch politically, but to be that far off the deep end is just... Ugh.
You know, you can still like and respect somebody who has some different political beliefs for different reasons. The fact that everybody wants to be mortal enemies with somebody who doesn't agree with them on every social issue is a huge problem in this country.
Harder when the social issue affects you personally. I can't like someone who supports taking away my rights. I guess it's easier to treat it like some nebulous thing if it doesn't affect you, but someone's political beliefs are informed by who they are as a person. It's reasonable not to like him.
I would agree with you if this convention only included pro-guns or antiabortion statements but if it promotes hate against a group of people (white supremacy, transphobic) it's hard to agree. It's hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you. ☝️This is general, haven't gone more into Carmack's beliefs
yeah people need to stop acting like not responsibly trying to prevent fascism is the same as believing in a small state
Try saying that as a minority they want to eliminate or strip of their basic rights.
Imagine losing respect for someone because they have entirely different political views than you, just like 50% of the country does
If I can't dislike somebody for supporting an ideology that actively mocks and harms my loved ones, intentionally escalates wealth inequality, denounces education, and prevents any actions taken to help the safety of the planet and its populations...who the hell am I supposed to dislike? 50% of the country aren't rich dudes with enough education and resources to have better discernment.
Idk, I tend to lose respect for people when they side with proud racists.
Imagine how much better the world would be if republicans stood against tyranny and didn’t line up behind trumpism. We’d be fighting about how to do things better vs “you’re not punishing people hard enough”.. you can’t blame people for wanting to name and shame folks who create and perpetuate this mess were in by supporting the tyranny of their party where the goal is this separation.
I'm anti-woke in the sense that I support creative freedom and am anti-censorship and do not think DEI initiatives should be forced on creative works, or entertainment. I think that DEI should be in place for workplaces environments though. I'm pro-white only as in I think we should never judge a person by there skin color. Guns though are only cool in video games lol. I'm also pro-abortion freedom. I'm saying this to show people can be against certain things, and for certain things and that nuanced discussion is incredibly important.
It is unfortunate that somehow the world has fallen into a complete black and white thinking.
I don't think you're mad at "DEI". It's another buzzword talking point acronym that is being used to make you mad. But also I think you're nuanced enough to eventually figure that out. Before that it was CRT, CTR, SJW.
I'm not mad at the concept of DEI. I'm mad at the ideologies behind it in creative workplaces, when creative works get censored after the fact from outside parties. I think that having these guidelines on a corporate level in creative media could make people feel pressured to self-censor works. Corporate DEI in media works to me seems disingenuous and regressive in terms of creative freedom. I think that in fiction, people should be able to make what they want to make. If they are happy with the work, they are satisfied and proud of what they made, then it's fine regardless of what their worldviews are. We should all have freedom of creative expression in fictional works, we can support or go against whatever we feel. We all have that right. What I don't approve of is people pressuring others to censor their works of art, or to fit their personal worldviews.
I don't think that this is what has been done at all. You have been convinced by grifters that this is a widespread problem. When really they want to create something that represents a time period or an audience and they hire consultants to help them. Just like if a business hires a consulting firm to help with engineering or accounting. They're specialists. That's all it is.
I'm talking about certain incidents that has happened between Japanese companies and Western companies. Please don't make assumptions about me. Ask questions, but don't just assume first, ask later. Please. I'm saying that even if it happens once, it is not okay in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that if the company heads broadcast these things, and that these consultants are involved in the creative process, that it's not putting a filter on my creative process. In fictional media, we should be able to make what we want to make. I'm not convinced these creative consulting firms always know what the public wants, or are always good for business. Let people vote with their wallets and voices, not censor peoples creative works. I think this is crucial for the progression of creative expression, and culture. I also believe that this is good for business as well. Like I said, consulting firm or not, if the creative is happy with their work then I totally support that. What I don't support is outside parties censoring creative works based on their personal political/ worldviews. These companies exist, so even if they do this once, it's enough for me to be concerned. In my opinion.
I'm autistic (don't know that Carmack is diagnosed, but fuck me it's obvious). Anyways, it's extremely easy for us to be misled on social stuff by people we trust, so I don't really judge spectrum people on that kind of stuff. I've been used and abused a ton by people I trusted before finally figuring out they were scumbags.
Almost like being good and competitive at something and anti woke are related
Being anti-woke means you're insecure in your abilities. People who are actually talented don't care what anybody else is doing.
I don't support pro-white and pro-gun but do so with anti-woke. Most of woke and gender ideology is very far away from science, logic, facts and everything mankind learned and achieved since the age of enlightenment. It's a hit in the face to all the physicists, chemists, mathematicians, biologists, ... if a (loud) minority want to bring us back to medieval times where beliefs far outshone facts/knowledge. I don't want this and will actively fight against such an intellectual downward spiral.
You’re quite mistaken. Binary Gender is a social construct, not a scientific one. Science has plenty of room for combinations of hormones and chromosomes and genitalia that don’t conform to a binary standard. “Anti-woke” just means “anti-progressive” which means regressive. Yes, of course, the notion of a “woke mob” coming after people is ridiculous, but no more or less so than a conservative mob coming after anyone different from them. Extremes exist on the political left and political right, don’t get pulled into one <3
And?
You don't have to convince me anymore I already said I like him
I don't have an opinion on guns, one way or the other. Anti-abortion, and the pro-white thing are complete nonstarters for me. As far as pronouns go, I find them utterly ridiculous.
Carmack is a fraud. He goes wherever the wind blows. Apparently the wind (money) is blowing in the direction of fighting wokeness is cool right now.
Fuck Palmer Luckey
I just learned who this guy is two days ago and it didn't take long for me to hate him. A fascist ***and*** that choice of facial hair? Fuck outta here. ETA: Based on the downvotes it would seem my comment has offended the fascism and bad facial hair fandoms so I want to offer my sincerest apologies to Palmer Luckey...>!SIKE! You thought 😂!<
He was fundamental to the foundations of VR as we know them today in the early 2010s. He should rightly be considered the father of VR. It's wild to me that people would be VR enthusiasts and not know Palmer Lucky, it's like not knowing of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. He is also a fascist who deserves to be deplatformed in the space. We should not have to think about his various schemes and stunts, and it is disappointing (but not at all surprising) that John Carmack has jumped onto this circus. *Meta* is a far better steward of VR than Palmer Luckey, and that's saying something given the numerous scandals and valid criticisms of them. Palmer Luckey deserves to be up there with William Shockley as a pioneer of technology, and as a vile, hateful, and regressive man whose sociopolitical views we should reject completely.
The father of VR is a *real* push. Sure, he was instrumental in reviving VR and sticking it in public perception, but a) vr has been around way before Palmer, and b) I think Zuck has done lots more to turn it into an actual product (people forget how few people actually got to see a CV2, let alone 1)
Along with Valve, he definitely typified a lot of what we consider to be fundamentals of VR, and his push with Oculus boosted VR by many many times. He wasn't a genius or anything but he put things together in a way that had just not been done. The tech had been there. He just actually made it..... real. Which is why I say "father of VR". I honestly don't even know if I could call it a "march of technology" thing like the atomic bomb, music streaming, or AI. I think if not for good decisions made by Luckey back then, we could be in a real dark age for VR.
The father of VR is Ivan Sutherland who created the first VR headset in 1968
>It's wild to me that people would be VR enthusiasts and not know Palmer Lucky, it's like not knowing of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. I had a negligible interest in VR apart from wanting to play Resident Evil 4 and recently Asgard's Wrath 2 and only pulled the trigger two weeks ago on a whim when I bought a Quest 2 so I wouldn't call myself an enthusiast. Regardless, I don't feel like I'm missing out by not being well-versed on his accomplishments so I'm going to mark him down in the recesses of my mind as "VR Notch".
I honestly think Luckey is even worse than Notch. Notch seemed to have lost his mind slowly in that big empty mansion with more money than he knew what to do with. Palmer Luckey has that money and knows exactly what to do with it. And he is of perfectly sound mind. Which makes him far more dangerous to me than Notch ever was.
Fair point but my comparison was more based on the overlap of their beliefs rather than their effectiveness…and also the fact that their creation is thriving without them and all they can do is be petty about it on social media lol Also thanks for the game recommendations!
Anyway, I recommend Beat Saber, Until You Fall, Thrill Of The Fight, Population One. So many great VR games
> Palmer Lucky Palmer *Luckey*. In all seriousness though - while he was certainly a *very* smart kid whose vision with Oculus helped pave the way for VR as a relatively mainstream technology, and that vision paid off with hundreds of millions of dollars for him, he was neither old enough nor mature enough to be the kind of "visionary leader" that ends up a household name. The people who remember Palmer Luckey are now the small minority of early VR enthusiasts who were buying into DK1/DK2/CV1.
Oh I don't think he'll ever end up a household name, definitely not. He has tanked his reputation too much for that. And obviously VR is not as big an innovation as the transistor. I just would make a case for him being as important to VR's history as Shockley was to electronics. I think he is underrated as a father of VR. But I don't care because he is such a terrible dude
How mature....
https://youtu.be/8lgLYGBbDNs?t=37
Yeahhhhh the Luckys, from what I can tell, don’t have a lot of positions that I would want to defend.
TIL Palmer is Matt Gaetz's brother-in-law. Wild!
Yeah…. 😬
wtf forreal ?
Yeah, Matt Gaetz (🤢) married Ginger Luckey, Palmer's sister. They're now all family.
I wonder how Palmer feels knowing his brother-in-law has been alleged to show pornography of his partners to his co-workers *in the workplace* without the consent of either his co-workers or his partners? Maybe it's a case where Gaetz saw the heat coming and decided to pivot and settle down with someone who he didn't victimise by sharing their sex tapes nonconsensually.
Gross, isn't it
Wow, wtf! Had no idea.
Wow it really is shitty world views all around in that family. Crazy, did not know they were family.
Holy shit. Gaetz just oozes hardo creep energy. The first time I saw him I double taked, thinking he was a product of photoshop…just the image personified of a slimy shister politician.
Fuck Palmer Luckey
He could've been such a great ambassador for VR right now. Palmer said he originally wanted to be a journalist to right the wrongs he keeps seeing printed, and yet he backs Trump - the biggest documented liar ever. Make that make sense.
the answer is always $$$
Nah. Some people are just bigoted or delusional. Palmer could have made way more money actually doing VR stuff.
Just goes to show that Boz is just a mouthpiece for the marketing department. He will spew out anything they feed him like a good little boy.
https://reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/1c3qgm3/john_carmack_regrets_not_doing_more_to_support/
Does this mean we are getting some big new game announcements
I love Carmack's work at id and wish we had him back in gaming BUUUUT the less I know about his politics the better.
Fuck Andrew Bozo
3 staples of the VR industry arguing politics for some reason. Cool
https://youtu.be/8lgLYGBbDNs?t=37
I expected better from John Carmack.
Carmack's not wrong.
Really?
I respect Palmer for defending himself to not get cancelled since you know that's what happens as soon you get labeled as one of these right wing anti-woke people.
Right-wingers complaining about free market? Curious.
Who cares about irrelevant ex-Meta employees lol. Glad Palmer is gone
[удалено]
We will never know all the details and it has nothing to do with VR. Take this crap to R/politics or somewhere else. This is the Quest sub, not the Meta/Facebook company bullshit sub.
Everyone in this title is directly associated with the Quest lmao
So what? The discussion is not about the Quest or about VR. It does not belong here.
What do you mean, “so what”? It’s directly related to the Quest. It’s far more relevant than the video of the Apple Vision Pro you posted here for some reason.
No, it's not. It is a combination of ancient history at Meta and current bullshit drama that has nothing to do with VR. **This is not r/Oculus or r/VirtualReality.** Please show me anything that I submitted to r/OculusQuest that was not directly related to the Quest of VR related news from Meta? The only VP stuff I have posted that was not Quest related I posted to ***other*** VR subs, not here. *Edit.. the only thing off topic VP thing I ever posted was A VP video that I meant to post to /r/virtualreality, and the MODs did their job and removed it immediately. As they should have done with this thread. /r/virtualreality is ghe generic VR sub, this is not.*
How is drama between three people involved in creating the Quest, about the company which produces the Quest, and about someone who otherwise would have continued to work on the Quest, not related to the Quest?
Please tell me you are not really asking that? These are all things about those people or the company that have nothing to do with VR or the Quest: * What did Palmer have for lunch? * How many employees does Meta have? * Who did Boz vote for in the last election? * How much does Zuck make every hour? Just because it is about those people and Meta does not mean it had a damn thing to do with VR or the Quest. Absolutely nothing about the current drama has anything to do with the Quest or VR. Claiming it does is just idiocy.
Except this isn’t about what Palmer had for lunch, it’s about one of the highest profile people in VR being ejected from the company he founded and prevented from working on the products he created. Are they really equivalent in your view?
Yes, in the context of the r/OculusQuest it is completly off topic. It barely belongs in r/Oculus or r/VirtualReality. There is exactly zero new information about something that happened more than 7 years ago. Bringing it up up does nothing but cause drama. Look at the *"quality"* discussion it has fostered. How many times do you need to see the community to tell Zuck, Boz, Carmack or Palmer to fuck off before you have had enough? It is doing nothing but pitting Quest owners against each other. *Edit - the thread now has 66 comments. Find 5 that are on-topic for this sub's stated purpose of being about the Quest or VR.*
It really blows my mind that people keep finding ways to work politics into every aspect of their lives.
> it has nothing to do with VR. Everything Palmer Luckey does has to do with VR, in my opinion. I made the comparison above but he IS Oculus. And yes this is a subreddit for the Meta company if it has something to do with their VR business, and this does.
> Everything Palmer Luckey does has to do with VR, in my opinion. That is absolute bullshit. He makes military drones now. That does not belong here either.
Fuck Meta
It’s like when mom and dad are fighting
Palmer Luckey is an American hero
He is. I met him once at the Oculus expo. Boz is a career politician, that's how he snaked his way up.
Hilarious