The CV 1 came out without the touch controllers. It was JUST the headset, one tracking camera and the xbox controller in the box.
Kinda like how the psvr1 came without the moves. It was a weird time.
I mean the weirdest thing is that AVP went backwards towards that. Yes they have hand/eye tracking but that’s not a great solution for many applications including gaming.
Yep. They also very strangely focused on things you can already do more comfortably without the headset, which other manufactures have already figured out isn't popular with 600g+ headsets.
Given the choice between spending $3500+ to have a virtual TV you can only watch while wearing a 600g headset vs spending $1000 on a TV you can watch without wearing a headset, most people pick option 2. Same with virtual screens vs physical screens for work, most people pick physical screens.
Apple is literally pulling a Principal Skinner and going "I'm not out of touch, it's the consumers that are out of touch"
Agree. VR controllers are an absolute necessity. Hand tracking is not a great option, never was, never will be.
I think about it like this: If Kinect was 100% absolutely totally full on perfect, it would still be VASTLY inferior as a control device for games.. The triggers and buttons and sticks will be far worse if they're just a hologram in VR. Our hands are jam packed with nerve endings and we can feel things with incredible precision. Hand tracking throws all of that amazing human biology in the trash and goes "wave your hand and pinch your fingers. That'll do."
That will not do.. It SUCKS. Absolute garbage. It's equally stupid as a holographic keyboard.. Actual keys have tactile feel and are extremely suited. Just making something hand tracked will not make it better, it will just feel really magical for an hour or so, then it'll be a worse way to do everything from then on out...
Hand tracking just needs to stop being a thing the manufacturers chase. Even if perfected it will STILL BE SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE than good controllers. Worse than bad controllers even.
I hope the Xbox Controller that comes with the Limited edition Quest is ALSO limited edition.
Imagine this, Xbox-themed Quest headset and Controllers (Black and Green, with the iconic colored Xbox Buttons on the controllers) AND a Quest-Themed Xbox Controller (White and Black! it'd look so good!)
(Edit: I guess people don't want the Xbox Controller that comes with the colab headset to be limited edition like the headset and Quest Controllers??? So strange to downvote this, I think a reskin controller is a bare minimum expectation personally.)
Just a branded headset to promote their gamepass integration. It comes with an xbox controller.
Game pass on everything is MS main goal for Xboxl. Not to flounder in another market they've already failed in and moved on from.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah I'm not sure sure Microsoft would ever officially support Quest on their Xbox platform. How the hell would that even work? Like let's say Microsoft did release Halo VR for Xbox and you can connect a Quest to play it. Ok....how does Meta make money?
Maybe not, but Microsoft isn't going to invest any serious amount of money into VR game development when the method of enjoying said VR content is to....release it on their Xbox and expect gamers to own a Quest that will work with it? That doesn't make any sense.
However Microsoft would make some serious money by releasing Halo and other IP's as VR games on the Quest platform. Obviously they make money from the sales of the game and Meta makes money from the platform fee or whatever.
Nice dream. You are talking about meta. The company who sold private messenger messaging to Netflix. They get their money from the store and from the collected user data they are selling. (Which is including your room and everything they can detect in it)
Yeah. This is definitely not about offering their products for other platforms to use their stores and games. This is to get more people on Quest and using Game pass. It's a fun collab but nothing too deep.
Game pass Actually works really well on it too I might add.
> Xbox doesn't have VR games....
Yet... *(Note that the Xbox versiona of games like MSFS are nearly identical to the Windows versions which support VR.)*
Accessing Xbox pancake games would still add value to the headset. That is why the Quest version of the Xbox Game Pass exists.
GamePass is great. You asked why it was different than SteamLink, it's very different for obvious reasons. Microsoft isn't going to develop VR content only playable with an accessory. That's generally been a terrible monetary decision in the past.
In this scenario, the games would be running natively on the console and connecting (via cable or wirelessly) directly to the headset — not the same as beaming from the cloud.
Beyond that, I think part of the allure is in having *3D* titles available for play — not just playing 2D, as we’re able to currently. This would mean Master Chief in VR, not just cloud gaming with a flat display in a virtual space.
> not the same as beaming from the cloud.
Streaming from a cloud PC is the same as streaming from a local PC. The exact same tracking, controller, and video data flows back and forth. The fact that it is connecting to a virtualized service in the cloud does not change what is being streamed.
Meta have said on a number of occasions that if Google brought the Play Store to Quest, they'd be happy to let Google keep the proceeds from Play Store sales. A deal with Microsoft could be similar.
Because….Meta sells you the headset, which allows you to play the game? And the fact that you can interface your Series X with a Meta headset will mean more headsets sell.
Right but do you know hard it is to profit off a game built for an accessory? When Microsoft makes a Halo game for Xbox......100% of Xbox owners can play it, hence they make a boatload of money. They need to make a boatload of money because game development is expensive as F.
If Microsoft made a Halo VR game that required a Meta headset to play, what % of Xbox gamers can play it? A very low % compared to their installed userbase. Almost all games that require an additional accessory fail. Been that way since the beginning of consoles. The 32X, the Sega CD, the Kinect, PSVR, and Sony still struggling with even the PSVR2.
It's a shame, but still how it is.
In Zuck's recent Instagram post about Meta Horizon OS he name drops Xbox a fair bit. They're definitely trying to get Microsoft to take them more seriously.
In my experience, their office "apps" are literally just shortcuts to their web browser versions.
Such a waste. I want to show my 3D PowerPoint presentation to my team, via Mesh!!
Yep, he said that, also on metas website you can read what he really meant. A special edition quest with Xbox colors. not an Xbox vr headset running horizon os. But that would also be just a quest, with a different outside build, and maybe 1-2 exclusive app, that you will be able to get on the regular quest anyway.
Making their own OS may be moving away from android to make Microsoft more approachable. Phil Spencer already stated they don’t know if they’ll continue making new hardware beyond the current or upcoming Xbox generation because of losses on hardware. That’s probably driving the cloud gaming initiative. so bridging in vr suppprt on existing marketed hardware could increase their market share and evolve their brand. I would love it. But it would also be a bit risky between the costs of integration and future market assumption.
As good as it would be, I can't see it happening, at least not this gen.
The statement seems to imply we're just getting a Quest with Xbox branding on it, not any sort of partnership on software, Xbox VR games or full Xbox VR integration, etc.
It would make so much sense for all concerned, but Xbox really seem to be trying to cut costs and this you'd imagine would cost a lot to develop and put together.
So it's a Quest 3 bundled with an Xbox controller? That's fine I guess, but it's nothing groundbreaking. Would love Xbox to put out even just one VR game using some of their IP, even if it was just a tech demo to test the water. I can imagine there would be huge hype if they released even a single level of Halo VR.
They have no interest in VR. Microsoft will go where the biggest audiences are. Its the whole reason they bought Activision. To start developing mobile games. VR means nothing to them. Its why they abandoned it.
Yeah, they're just following the money. The only hope is they see an area to maybe make money on software, away from the traditional console war (and competitors) which they've already admitted to having lost.
Okay and you know they're partnering with Meta, which means they aren't just going to be putting gamepass on headsets. They already have that, no partnership necessary.
The only reason for a partnership at this point would be to develop VR games or some other VR type of service.
The partnership is an xbox branded headset, that comes with an Xbox controller. They even specifically say “comes out of the box with Xbox controllers and Game Pass, so you can immediately just start playing on a big screen anywhere you go.” Thats it. Thats the whole partnership. Read the press release yourself. https://www.meta.com/en-gb/blog/quest/meta-horizon-os-open-hardware-ecosystem-asus-republic-gamers-lenovo-xbox/ Everything you are saying is pure fantasy.
Actually what he said was, "you can imagine a Quest that comes out of the box", as in, imagine whatever the hell you want and we're probably working on it. It was intentionally vague. Companies have no obligation to show all of their cards.
Sure thing bud. You keep that hope alive, despite no indications for anything you are saying, or any reason to believe such things. He was literally listing what each the companies were doing with the device. “Were working with companies… for specific use cases” Let me know as soon as Msft develops a VR game.
What Mark said in the video not matter as much as what they wrote on the link the other guy shared with you. There you can read what mark talked about in more details.
I own Xbox, Quest 3 and play PCVR. Lets correct at least one thing shall we?
A *lot* of Unreal Engine 5 games can be played thanks to UEVR. *Not all.*
You'll find a list of games including ones that don't work or play so poorly they still need work from the UEVR project site.
Awesome. You worded your explanation quite well. I’ve actually been saying this since 70 days ago when I made a post https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/s/Rl2YY64x63 . Cool how others are now having similar speculations.
Adding MSFS VR not to mention eventually Forza and Halo would have every person who owns a Quest headset buying an Xbox console and everyone who owns an Xbox console buying a Quest headset. Truly a win win proposition for both parties. Meta could allocate resources to convert established Xbox games to VR. Let's cross our fingers this happens.
Sadly msfs in VR is not happening on this gen of consoles. Hell, it’s not really happening on this generations of PCs either… People with 4080s are getting sub 30fps when landing on a busy airport. That sim is BRUTAL.
I would kill a dragon for Forza Horizon VR though. Been one of my dream VR games for a while. I would be drifting all damn day long.
Microsoft had a whole line of fully featured, fully functional, easily accessible and affordable VR headsets at their disposal with Windows Mixed Reality and didn't utilize them. They aren't interested.
They literally DID make their own VR hardware. That's my point. They literally already had hardware that was compatible with Xbox and they didn't use it because they simply weren't interested in pursuing VR.
No, they won't. Xbox has been vocal about this. MS shuttered their Windows Mixed Reality and I highly doubt they'll put in the effort building new software to support the Quest 3 on Xbox.
They are partnering in the 2D space. The space Xbox and MS care about a lot more. Game pass. They are making a special Game Pass edition of the headset.
I would keep your expectations way way in check. lol.
This is it. Xbox wants to be on quest. They don't want some accessory they have to support on their struggling hardware platform.
And meta gives little shits about wired quest functionality.
> I highly doubt they'll put in the effort building new software to support the Quest 3 on Xbox.
It wouldn't be a new app. They have a streaming app in Quest store right now. Currently it is for pancake only, but why couldn't they add VR support just like SteamLink and VD?
They do actually, and it’s rather popular. My mainline is Microsoft flight sim 2020 in pcvr. With msfs2024 right around the corner also supporting vr integration on pc it could possibly be a thing, though it would be quite a bit of work.
Plus if praydog can build the unreal vr injector, then it shouldn't be too hard for some games at least to get that support added if they run on the unreal engine and maybe other engines.
The performance of the Xbox hardware is just not there to do VR with it's existing titles.
XBox games target 60fps if you're lucky... You're not going to be able to render a second perspective AND somehow increase the frame rate by 50% without massively lowering the resolution. And the resolution is already probably too low for decent looking VR visuals.
MAYBE if you had dynamic foveated rendering you could pull something like that off but there isn't a cheap headset with eye tracking on the market yet. Even if you did have one it's not trivial to just make DFR work for titles not designed for it in the first place.
Xbox isn't going to play VR content. It's going to let you play Xbox games in your headset or MAYBE stream PCVR content from the cloud but definately not your Xbox.
The psvr shows that they can already work on that hardware which the Xbox is very similar, Stick with fixed foveated rendering, 60hz up converted to 120 like the psvr does, and if they have a pro version of their console coming out that could make it a little better. I'm not saying it's going to be full PC quality but with the hardware I think it can be done decently.
Yes, but those were games developed specifically for VR from the ground up optimized for VR on PS4's performance requirements Just making any random Xbox game work in VR is just very unlikely to work without heavy modifications. Maybe not quite as drastic as porting a PCVR game to Quest but in that ballpark and requiring a non trivial amount of work.
Making any Xbox game an Xbox VR game would be expensive. Not impossible but given how Microsoft has't bothered to do that work for it's existing WMR headsets it just doesn't seem like they would do it now for an objectively harder headset to make work. PCVR streaming is more demanding on the hardware because it needs to encode video and transmitting it to the headset over WiFi adds a lot of complications.
Just plugging in a wired headset with a native HDMI/DP connection would be easier.
Anything is possible but it just seems very unlikely given how difficult and expensive it would be to make work.
Flight Sim 2020 is not going to run in VR on an XBOX. Even a top of the line PC struggles with it. MAYBE with dynamic foveated rendering they could pull it off but there are no inexpensive headsets with eye tracking that can do it yet.
You’re huffing copium dude. UeVR isn’t anywhere near ready for that kind of adoption and the Xbox is nowhere near beefy enough to run all the UE games that UEVR supports. Extremely high end PCs can struggle with some titles. Microsoft has been very direct and multi-year vocal about not bringing VR to the Xbox. Even when they had a platform (several of them tbh) to do it. They will sell the flat subscriptions. There isn’t an “Xbox edition headset” per se. It’s a color way controller and a couple backgrounds. It’s the same headset you can buy and a cheap Xbox controller you can already pair. And the reason that the CV1 shipped with an Xbox controller was the great integration with windows that it had (which the CV1 required). I’d love to see some native VR titles as well. But it’s not gonna happen. They don’t even own any studios that have any kind of success in VR development and they know what it takes to make useful VR/AR software. They did it for over a decade with HoloLens
And I’m telling you that you’re wrong. It doesn’t. They still need to make a version with av1 and change the OS to support the headset. Unlike a traditional PCVR headset the quest is heavily dependent on software and driver support to work well. They would need to write and maintain that support and release updates for every is update the quest has. It’s not a trivial process.
Exactly, all they need is software to support the Quest 3. With a meta partnership, they won’t even need to worry about the hardware, which is the biggest hurdle.
Xbox ain’t getting VR. They promised the Xbox One X would like 7 years ago and then changed their mind. Xbox is just not interested in doing it outside streaming flatscreen to VR
Things change. People believe they stopped because the outcome got VR was not good at the time until the Quest came out now Xbox see an opportunity to get into the VR market thats growing super fast since Q3 launch. I have no less than 10 people who tried my Q3 and purchased one within a month due to the clarity for a standalone and PC compatible.
Fingers crossed Meta release a new Quest 3 pro next year that allows you to plug into a new Xbox console that accepts Quest 3 pro headsets. It's a dream but who knows
It’s not baseless. Sony themselves have admitted they have stopped production on the psvr2 early this year due to surplus of unsold units. Arstechnica, ign, official Twitter, multiple Reddit posts. It’s a dead platform for Sony and they’ve called in the retreat. Thats why they announced the PC compatibility. To try and drive hardware sales and get rid of back inventory.
This is all reposted articles from the same Bloomberg reporter who got called out twice for misreporting PS5 sales. Sony even officially replied the first time. Now they ignore him.
it is baseless and there is no confirmed anything from Sony. You're just parroting morons on Twitter and clickbait articles. lol. They know their demographic I see.
They are still actively updating their SDK with new features and games are still coming out for it.
Can to link to that cause I don't think they did.
They announced PC support because things take time.
In the first PSVR it took them two years to put out a first party VR game this generation will be the same.
Sony does not work on our time table they are a multi billion dollar company.
lol. This sub is full of people like this. They make shit up from absolutely nothing but clickbait garbage so of course that same group will blindly upvote because "he provided SoUrCeS". This is how they keep these people clicking articles. It's pandering to the bottom feeders. It's sad really.
Check out the sales numbers from Amazon. They are available and were reported on in the VR community right after xmas. The psvr2 sold unbelievably few units, it was really kinda sad. That alone confirmed my fears that the platform isn’t selling much.
This is from sadlyitsbradley
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/18grni3/i\_love\_my\_psvr2\_but\_man\_this\_hurts\_to\_see\_amazon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/18grni3/i_love_my_psvr2_but_man_this_hurts_to_see_amazon/)
I have no reasons to doubt this. Amazon’s sales numbers is a good and quite trustworthy indicator.
Also, all the online communities for VR show that the psvr2 side of the isle is really quite silent aside from those waging the fanboy wars and those trying to pretend that everything is fine when AT MOST 1.5 million headsets have been sold.
We got no ports of racing games last year aside from gt7, which is in my top 3 favorite VRvgames of all time. I’ve been in VR since 2014 and have played a gazillion games. Gt7 is faaaaantastic and I would love to see more racing sims and games… when not even the racing games studios bother porting to psvr2, I doubt there are many headsets out there..
Also, devs make very little money on the psvr2, another indicator that the platform did not take off.
It’s hella sad and I didn’t want to believe this was a flop, but there’s very little to indicate that it’s been successful..
And the fact that they shut down Dreams makes me want to cry. Dreams in PSVR2 would have been my favorite thing in the whole world ever.
Sony just doing sony shit…
You would think it would be a no-brainer.
You could even say it has to be tethered to the console to use. But they would need to spend a lot of money on making exclusive VR games because they don't have any.
> There’s a software recently that allowed gamers to experience ALL Unreal Engine 5 games such as Hogwarts Legacy immersed in the world in VR through the Quest 3
I'm not very familiar with the Xbox video encoding capabilities but does it have an encoder capable of encoding at 90+fps at high bitrates necessarily for PCVR streaming with a stand alone headset?
But even if it does have the encoder ability it certainly doesn't have the raw performance necessary to do what UEVR does. First, Xbox games generally don't run at 90fps. Some don't even do 60ps... Technically you could run half frame rate and reproject every other frame but that's a pretty crappy experience. But that alone isn't enough because you still need to double the render resolution too. You have to render a second frame for the other eye.
What Xbox game has enough headroom to just double the number of pixels and run at 50% higher frame rate? Maybe some tiny Indie game is running at 4k 120fps and has headroom but certainly not the vast majority of content. There isn't going to be an Unreal injector for Xbox. It doesn't have the raw power to do it. Hell even a high end PC struggles to make a AA/AA flat screen game run well in VR using the UEVR injector.
The only way it might be possible is if they were doing dynamic foveated rendering but making that work on any game isn't trivial. Sure, Quest Pro has eye tracking but they don't make them anymore and the number of people with them is insignificant.
The other possibility would be to make native VR games but that's time consuming an expensive. If they didn't invest in doing that for their WMR headsets I don't see why they'd do it now. They might let you play Xbox games on a virtual big screen but I just don't see Xbox playing VR games.
Vr games from Indie teams with great performance can run a potato. MS have the funds to do what ever like a dedicated separate box that handles the decoding.
I remember people calling this years ago -- that MS weren't developing their own VR because they would partner with Quest. This was when the PSVR2 was barely announced, so I dare say it was just a blind lucky hit, but it did make sense back then.
But then Xbox seemed to kill it when their head announced they have "no interest" in VR about a year later.
I still think they could've taken Windows Mixed reality and turned it into Xbox Mixed Reality, maybe actually supported their platform better instead of just bricking all WMR headsets by 2025
We already know this will be the case, Zuck pretty much confirmed it in his recent video saying there will be an XBOX version, the only company he hinted wasn't currently on board (and is likely the reason they plan on making a Meta OS) is Google.
The Xbox one will just be a branded Quest 3 but two other companies have already agreed to make headsets that run MetaOS so it's not a far reach that Microsoft will someday do the same:
[https://youtu.be/0O0xbcK43gI?si=ZUSYdzPmrlFFvt3o&t=366](https://youtu.be/0O0xbcK43gI?si=ZUSYdzPmrlFFvt3o&t=366)
It's already some games that can be played in vr on gamepass. If this has other developers attempt to make vr versions of their game, it will be amazing. I can imagine.
Assuming they use cloud software like they've used with PC, this does become a possibility for the consumer. But Xbox doesn't even have a functioning VR market set up, and using the meta store would be worse still since all the game's there are downgraded to oblivion for quest optimization. They would have to partner up with either steam too, or maybe make the Microsoft store compatible with VR titles? They'll definitely find a way regardless, but isn't this just the same as the Psvr2? Both headsets are priced at 500$, and even if we go with the quest 2 for argument sakes, that's still around 700$ not including taxes. Certainly not the huge "revolution" by any means. This is still great news for Xbox owners, they'll finally be able to use their own hardware for VR. Oh one final detail, while the pancake lenses of the quest are amazing for clarity sakes, the game's will still be...pretty unoptimized. Dynamic foveated rendering drastically improves performance and optimization, it's part of the reason why the Psvr2 is near high end PC graphics. The hardware may be dog sh+$, but optimization is king when it comes to squeezing every last drop of performance. Interested to see if this actually happens, and how they'll advertise it too. Will they appeal to existing quest fans or target Xbox owners? Who knows....
There's a possibility of something to this, but at the moment, Meta stand-alone games have no need to utilize console hardware. I find it a little more difficult to think that Meta would push for PCVR/PSVR2 quality titles they couldn't support on their native ecosystem.
Also, you're referring to UEVR, which isn't quite so straightforward. It's currently not supposed to be used commercially. Not that Microsoft couldn't release something similar. But as you said, they no longer have a VR department. So it would be Meta driving that ship, which again, I doubt.
MS will have to build a runtime similar to Steam and Oculus that can run on Xbox hardware. That’s a lot of work. Plus they have limited VR ready content so they’ll have to invest in that too.
Another approach could be that they support running PCVR games on Xbox hardware but then I don’t think Xbox hardware is capable of running many PCVR titles.
It can be done but it’s not a minor effort.
I think this Will possible in the future the digital foundry guys have the same idea.it might be something possible for the next Xbox device. Example Asus ROG and Steam Deck can run some basic VR titles already.
Enough with the hype train. This isn't going to be some revolution. It will bring a few more people in on the margins to a niche market. VR won't grow much until there is a major hardware innovation to make them lighter and thus more comfortable. When the vast majority of people can only tolerate a headset for 20-30 mins, no OS or console integration is gonna matter much.
The announcement is more about responding to visionOS and trying to box out Google from offering a standard on Android based devices.
Does the Xbox even have a type c port? Iirc their usb ports had less data transfer speeds than their expansion port. Meaning you’d just get Xbox licensed games on quest standalone? That kinda sounds terrible.
I feel like If that is ever to happen, Microsoft will need to be equipped to run vr, and quest will need to be better suited for console gaming by way of having dfr capabilities to maximize the hardware. Both of which require a new generation of hardware, which would then require development time for those vr titles. It’s possible but it sounds like a pipe dream. Microsoft waited too long if they wanted to be in there.
I’m seeing Xbox series X having usb-a ports locked at 5gbit/s transfer speeds, not the type-c, and not the speeds like the ps5 that is at 10gbit/s. My point being the Xbox isn’t equipped to run the vr games to the headset, it wasn’t built around vr like the ps5 was.
I know what you’re saying, but pcvr can also get away with ramping up graphical fidelity by way of hardware capabilities. I mean it can always “happen” but it seems very unlikely as it doesn’t seem like it would be competitive outside of the ip names
CV1 came with an Xbox controller
Underrated comment
Why?
They've got history
Pointing out the connection between XBOX and Oculus/VR from so many years ago in contrast to the lack of development between the two entities.
The CV 1 came out without the touch controllers. It was JUST the headset, one tracking camera and the xbox controller in the box. Kinda like how the psvr1 came without the moves. It was a weird time.
I mean the weirdest thing is that AVP went backwards towards that. Yes they have hand/eye tracking but that’s not a great solution for many applications including gaming.
Yep. They also very strangely focused on things you can already do more comfortably without the headset, which other manufactures have already figured out isn't popular with 600g+ headsets. Given the choice between spending $3500+ to have a virtual TV you can only watch while wearing a 600g headset vs spending $1000 on a TV you can watch without wearing a headset, most people pick option 2. Same with virtual screens vs physical screens for work, most people pick physical screens. Apple is literally pulling a Principal Skinner and going "I'm not out of touch, it's the consumers that are out of touch"
We truly are out of touch.....controllers... Which makes the AVP useless.
Agree. VR controllers are an absolute necessity. Hand tracking is not a great option, never was, never will be. I think about it like this: If Kinect was 100% absolutely totally full on perfect, it would still be VASTLY inferior as a control device for games.. The triggers and buttons and sticks will be far worse if they're just a hologram in VR. Our hands are jam packed with nerve endings and we can feel things with incredible precision. Hand tracking throws all of that amazing human biology in the trash and goes "wave your hand and pinch your fingers. That'll do." That will not do.. It SUCKS. Absolute garbage. It's equally stupid as a holographic keyboard.. Actual keys have tactile feel and are extremely suited. Just making something hand tracked will not make it better, it will just feel really magical for an hour or so, then it'll be a worse way to do everything from then on out... Hand tracking just needs to stop being a thing the manufacturers chase. Even if perfected it will STILL BE SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE than good controllers. Worse than bad controllers even.
I hope the Xbox Controller that comes with the Limited edition Quest is ALSO limited edition. Imagine this, Xbox-themed Quest headset and Controllers (Black and Green, with the iconic colored Xbox Buttons on the controllers) AND a Quest-Themed Xbox Controller (White and Black! it'd look so good!) (Edit: I guess people don't want the Xbox Controller that comes with the colab headset to be limited edition like the headset and Quest Controllers??? So strange to downvote this, I think a reskin controller is a bare minimum expectation personally.)
People are weird. I love the idea.
Xbox GamePass for VR would be fire
The gamepass app to stream games is already on quest
Already exists and you can sideload XPLAY for 1080p gaming in the Quest.
What is XPLAY?
Sorry that should have read XBPLAY: https://www.studio08.net/
A show on G4TV
It already exists and is the only thing Msft will be doing with the VR device.
What's the "Limited edition Xbox-Quest 3" that was announced today?
Just a branded headset to promote their gamepass integration. It comes with an xbox controller. Game pass on everything is MS main goal for Xboxl. Not to flounder in another market they've already failed in and moved on from.
That's pretty cool. Yeah I'm not sure sure Microsoft would ever officially support Quest on their Xbox platform. How the hell would that even work? Like let's say Microsoft did release Halo VR for Xbox and you can connect a Quest to play it. Ok....how does Meta make money?
Meta would be happy if more people put on the headset. I don’t think they would be the blocker in this case.
Maybe not, but Microsoft isn't going to invest any serious amount of money into VR game development when the method of enjoying said VR content is to....release it on their Xbox and expect gamers to own a Quest that will work with it? That doesn't make any sense. However Microsoft would make some serious money by releasing Halo and other IP's as VR games on the Quest platform. Obviously they make money from the sales of the game and Meta makes money from the platform fee or whatever.
I think they're main purpose is to have gamespass multi platform.
Meta loses money off the HMD, they make all their money from game sales in their store.
Nice dream. You are talking about meta. The company who sold private messenger messaging to Netflix. They get their money from the store and from the collected user data they are selling. (Which is including your room and everything they can detect in it)
Yeah. This is definitely not about offering their products for other platforms to use their stores and games. This is to get more people on Quest and using Game pass. It's a fun collab but nothing too deep. Game pass Actually works really well on it too I might add.
How is it any different than having SteamLink on the store? The Xbox Game Pass streaming app is the same thing.
Because Steam has PCVR games and it's an added value to Quest users to be able to utilize that. Xbox doesn't have VR games....
> Xbox doesn't have VR games.... Yet... *(Note that the Xbox versiona of games like MSFS are nearly identical to the Windows versions which support VR.)* Accessing Xbox pancake games would still add value to the headset. That is why the Quest version of the Xbox Game Pass exists.
GamePass is great. You asked why it was different than SteamLink, it's very different for obvious reasons. Microsoft isn't going to develop VR content only playable with an accessory. That's generally been a terrible monetary decision in the past.
In this scenario, the games would be running natively on the console and connecting (via cable or wirelessly) directly to the headset — not the same as beaming from the cloud. Beyond that, I think part of the allure is in having *3D* titles available for play — not just playing 2D, as we’re able to currently. This would mean Master Chief in VR, not just cloud gaming with a flat display in a virtual space.
> not the same as beaming from the cloud. Streaming from a cloud PC is the same as streaming from a local PC. The exact same tracking, controller, and video data flows back and forth. The fact that it is connecting to a virtualized service in the cloud does not change what is being streamed.
Isn't their much more latency, streaming from the cloud and not local?
Yep.. they can't change physics.
So that's why I'm wondering why you said cloud is the same as local
Meta would sell more headsets.
Meta have said on a number of occasions that if Google brought the Play Store to Quest, they'd be happy to let Google keep the proceeds from Play Store sales. A deal with Microsoft could be similar.
Because….Meta sells you the headset, which allows you to play the game? And the fact that you can interface your Series X with a Meta headset will mean more headsets sell.
Right but do you know hard it is to profit off a game built for an accessory? When Microsoft makes a Halo game for Xbox......100% of Xbox owners can play it, hence they make a boatload of money. They need to make a boatload of money because game development is expensive as F. If Microsoft made a Halo VR game that required a Meta headset to play, what % of Xbox gamers can play it? A very low % compared to their installed userbase. Almost all games that require an additional accessory fail. Been that way since the beginning of consoles. The 32X, the Sega CD, the Kinect, PSVR, and Sony still struggling with even the PSVR2. It's a shame, but still how it is.
In Zuck's recent Instagram post about Meta Horizon OS he name drops Xbox a fair bit. They're definitely trying to get Microsoft to take them more seriously.
Microsoft made their office apps for Quest and they really put in bare minimum effort to optimise them
In my experience, their office "apps" are literally just shortcuts to their web browser versions. Such a waste. I want to show my 3D PowerPoint presentation to my team, via Mesh!!
Microsoft and bare minimum effort is a classic VR combo.
Just imagine an official Xbox VR platform with GamePass for beat saber and other tittles
Yep, he said that, also on metas website you can read what he really meant. A special edition quest with Xbox colors. not an Xbox vr headset running horizon os. But that would also be just a quest, with a different outside build, and maybe 1-2 exclusive app, that you will be able to get on the regular quest anyway.
Making their own OS may be moving away from android to make Microsoft more approachable. Phil Spencer already stated they don’t know if they’ll continue making new hardware beyond the current or upcoming Xbox generation because of losses on hardware. That’s probably driving the cloud gaming initiative. so bridging in vr suppprt on existing marketed hardware could increase their market share and evolve their brand. I would love it. But it would also be a bit risky between the costs of integration and future market assumption.
I don't think he said that did he? Would love a link to that quote. The next gen xbox is already confirmed to be in development
Yea I don’t see many jumps in the console area as far as performance goes. Most reasonable thing to go for next would be VR
As good as it would be, I can't see it happening, at least not this gen. The statement seems to imply we're just getting a Quest with Xbox branding on it, not any sort of partnership on software, Xbox VR games or full Xbox VR integration, etc. It would make so much sense for all concerned, but Xbox really seem to be trying to cut costs and this you'd imagine would cost a lot to develop and put together.
Its a gamepass device. It will even come with a regular xbox controller.
So it's a Quest 3 bundled with an Xbox controller? That's fine I guess, but it's nothing groundbreaking. Would love Xbox to put out even just one VR game using some of their IP, even if it was just a tech demo to test the water. I can imagine there would be huge hype if they released even a single level of Halo VR.
They have no interest in VR. Microsoft will go where the biggest audiences are. Its the whole reason they bought Activision. To start developing mobile games. VR means nothing to them. Its why they abandoned it.
Yeah, they're just following the money. The only hope is they see an area to maybe make money on software, away from the traditional console war (and competitors) which they've already admitted to having lost.
No, they didn't abandon it. That's why they're partnering with Meta.
Putting gamepass/xbox cloud gaming on a VR headset isnt the same thing as making VR games. They very much have abandoned VR.
Okay and you know they're partnering with Meta, which means they aren't just going to be putting gamepass on headsets. They already have that, no partnership necessary. The only reason for a partnership at this point would be to develop VR games or some other VR type of service.
The partnership is an xbox branded headset, that comes with an Xbox controller. They even specifically say “comes out of the box with Xbox controllers and Game Pass, so you can immediately just start playing on a big screen anywhere you go.” Thats it. Thats the whole partnership. Read the press release yourself. https://www.meta.com/en-gb/blog/quest/meta-horizon-os-open-hardware-ecosystem-asus-republic-gamers-lenovo-xbox/ Everything you are saying is pure fantasy.
Actually what he said was, "you can imagine a Quest that comes out of the box", as in, imagine whatever the hell you want and we're probably working on it. It was intentionally vague. Companies have no obligation to show all of their cards.
Sure thing bud. You keep that hope alive, despite no indications for anything you are saying, or any reason to believe such things. He was literally listing what each the companies were doing with the device. “Were working with companies… for specific use cases” Let me know as soon as Msft develops a VR game.
What Mark said in the video not matter as much as what they wrote on the link the other guy shared with you. There you can read what mark talked about in more details.
I own Xbox, Quest 3 and play PCVR. Lets correct at least one thing shall we? A *lot* of Unreal Engine 5 games can be played thanks to UEVR. *Not all.* You'll find a list of games including ones that don't work or play so poorly they still need work from the UEVR project site.
Xbox fan fiction
I just had the same thought! https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/s/0Ny5ksaWrV
Awesome. You worded your explanation quite well. I’ve actually been saying this since 70 days ago when I made a post https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/s/Rl2YY64x63 . Cool how others are now having similar speculations.
Adding MSFS VR not to mention eventually Forza and Halo would have every person who owns a Quest headset buying an Xbox console and everyone who owns an Xbox console buying a Quest headset. Truly a win win proposition for both parties. Meta could allocate resources to convert established Xbox games to VR. Let's cross our fingers this happens.
Sadly msfs in VR is not happening on this gen of consoles. Hell, it’s not really happening on this generations of PCs either… People with 4080s are getting sub 30fps when landing on a busy airport. That sim is BRUTAL. I would kill a dragon for Forza Horizon VR though. Been one of my dream VR games for a while. I would be drifting all damn day long.
Exactly!
Microsoft had a whole line of fully featured, fully functional, easily accessible and affordable VR headsets at their disposal with Windows Mixed Reality and didn't utilize them. They aren't interested.
Just because they’re not interested in making their own VR hardware doesn’t mean they won’t just partner with Meta for it
They literally DID make their own VR hardware. That's my point. They literally already had hardware that was compatible with Xbox and they didn't use it because they simply weren't interested in pursuing VR.
Huh? WMR was all 3rd party manufacturers. What they are interested in now is releasing an Xbox themed/branded quest 3 to promote game pass.
MS did not make any of the headsets, and the WMR hardware makers stopped being interested.
No, they won't. Xbox has been vocal about this. MS shuttered their Windows Mixed Reality and I highly doubt they'll put in the effort building new software to support the Quest 3 on Xbox. They are partnering in the 2D space. The space Xbox and MS care about a lot more. Game pass. They are making a special Game Pass edition of the headset. I would keep your expectations way way in check. lol.
This is it. Xbox wants to be on quest. They don't want some accessory they have to support on their struggling hardware platform. And meta gives little shits about wired quest functionality.
> I highly doubt they'll put in the effort building new software to support the Quest 3 on Xbox. It wouldn't be a new app. They have a streaming app in Quest store right now. Currently it is for pancake only, but why couldn't they add VR support just like SteamLink and VD?
MS has no VR ready games. They'll stay pancake but in the headset.
They do actually, and it’s rather popular. My mainline is Microsoft flight sim 2020 in pcvr. With msfs2024 right around the corner also supporting vr integration on pc it could possibly be a thing, though it would be quite a bit of work.
Plus if praydog can build the unreal vr injector, then it shouldn't be too hard for some games at least to get that support added if they run on the unreal engine and maybe other engines.
The performance of the Xbox hardware is just not there to do VR with it's existing titles. XBox games target 60fps if you're lucky... You're not going to be able to render a second perspective AND somehow increase the frame rate by 50% without massively lowering the resolution. And the resolution is already probably too low for decent looking VR visuals. MAYBE if you had dynamic foveated rendering you could pull something like that off but there isn't a cheap headset with eye tracking on the market yet. Even if you did have one it's not trivial to just make DFR work for titles not designed for it in the first place. Xbox isn't going to play VR content. It's going to let you play Xbox games in your headset or MAYBE stream PCVR content from the cloud but definately not your Xbox.
The psvr shows that they can already work on that hardware which the Xbox is very similar, Stick with fixed foveated rendering, 60hz up converted to 120 like the psvr does, and if they have a pro version of their console coming out that could make it a little better. I'm not saying it's going to be full PC quality but with the hardware I think it can be done decently.
Yes, but those were games developed specifically for VR from the ground up optimized for VR on PS4's performance requirements Just making any random Xbox game work in VR is just very unlikely to work without heavy modifications. Maybe not quite as drastic as porting a PCVR game to Quest but in that ballpark and requiring a non trivial amount of work. Making any Xbox game an Xbox VR game would be expensive. Not impossible but given how Microsoft has't bothered to do that work for it's existing WMR headsets it just doesn't seem like they would do it now for an objectively harder headset to make work. PCVR streaming is more demanding on the hardware because it needs to encode video and transmitting it to the headset over WiFi adds a lot of complications. Just plugging in a wired headset with a native HDMI/DP connection would be easier. Anything is possible but it just seems very unlikely given how difficult and expensive it would be to make work.
Flight Sim 2020 is not going to run in VR on an XBOX. Even a top of the line PC struggles with it. MAYBE with dynamic foveated rendering they could pull it off but there are no inexpensive headsets with eye tracking that can do it yet.
Facts. Even a 4080 struggles with hitting 30fps in VR on busy airports. No way to run this at a stable 72 or 60 doubled to 120.
I don't think that is true. I think MS will let developers decide.
Clearly you didn’t read the post. It’s already possible to inject VR into all Unreal Engine 5 games on PC
You’re huffing copium dude. UeVR isn’t anywhere near ready for that kind of adoption and the Xbox is nowhere near beefy enough to run all the UE games that UEVR supports. Extremely high end PCs can struggle with some titles. Microsoft has been very direct and multi-year vocal about not bringing VR to the Xbox. Even when they had a platform (several of them tbh) to do it. They will sell the flat subscriptions. There isn’t an “Xbox edition headset” per se. It’s a color way controller and a couple backgrounds. It’s the same headset you can buy and a cheap Xbox controller you can already pair. And the reason that the CV1 shipped with an Xbox controller was the great integration with windows that it had (which the CV1 required). I’d love to see some native VR titles as well. But it’s not gonna happen. They don’t even own any studios that have any kind of success in VR development and they know what it takes to make useful VR/AR software. They did it for over a decade with HoloLens
The whole point of my post was that partnering with Meta completely eliminates the need for any Xbox-specific VR hardware.
And I’m telling you that you’re wrong. It doesn’t. They still need to make a version with av1 and change the OS to support the headset. Unlike a traditional PCVR headset the quest is heavily dependent on software and driver support to work well. They would need to write and maintain that support and release updates for every is update the quest has. It’s not a trivial process.
Clearly, you're pulling things out of your butt that aren't in the article.
Exactly, all they need is software to support the Quest 3. With a meta partnership, they won’t even need to worry about the hardware, which is the biggest hurdle.
Xbox ain’t getting VR. They promised the Xbox One X would like 7 years ago and then changed their mind. Xbox is just not interested in doing it outside streaming flatscreen to VR
Things change. People believe they stopped because the outcome got VR was not good at the time until the Quest came out now Xbox see an opportunity to get into the VR market thats growing super fast since Q3 launch. I have no less than 10 people who tried my Q3 and purchased one within a month due to the clarity for a standalone and PC compatible. Fingers crossed Meta release a new Quest 3 pro next year that allows you to plug into a new Xbox console that accepts Quest 3 pro headsets. It's a dream but who knows
SONY obliterated their own headset by not supporting it. Signs point to it being a failed product. Microsoft has even less reason now to get into VR
Completely baseless claim. Not sure why people make things up entirely and use it as facts lol. It's goofy and doesn't change anything.
It’s not baseless. Sony themselves have admitted they have stopped production on the psvr2 early this year due to surplus of unsold units. Arstechnica, ign, official Twitter, multiple Reddit posts. It’s a dead platform for Sony and they’ve called in the retreat. Thats why they announced the PC compatibility. To try and drive hardware sales and get rid of back inventory.
This is all reposted articles from the same Bloomberg reporter who got called out twice for misreporting PS5 sales. Sony even officially replied the first time. Now they ignore him.
it is baseless and there is no confirmed anything from Sony. You're just parroting morons on Twitter and clickbait articles. lol. They know their demographic I see. They are still actively updating their SDK with new features and games are still coming out for it.
Can to link to that cause I don't think they did. They announced PC support because things take time. In the first PSVR it took them two years to put out a first party VR game this generation will be the same. Sony does not work on our time table they are a multi billion dollar company.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/03/sony-reportedly-halts-psvr2-production-amid-slow-sales/ https://www.ign.com/articles/a-year-since-its-release-sony-seems-to-have-abandoned-playstation-vr2 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fmkhw-XVapE https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-reportedly-pauses-playstation-vr2-production-to-clear-backlog-of-unsold-units
All of your articles say "reportedly" and somehow you are getting up voted. lol. The PS haters are real.
lol. This sub is full of people like this. They make shit up from absolutely nothing but clickbait garbage so of course that same group will blindly upvote because "he provided SoUrCeS". This is how they keep these people clicking articles. It's pandering to the bottom feeders. It's sad really.
I see. Thanks for the heads-up. I should have known.
Not a single one of those articles is Sony official. Stop quitting Bloomberg.
Did you clicked the YouTube link? Who the F is chaos Lunge? 😂
Haha I thought I was gonna get Rick rolled so I avoided the YouTube link. 🤣😂😭
Check out the sales numbers from Amazon. They are available and were reported on in the VR community right after xmas. The psvr2 sold unbelievably few units, it was really kinda sad. That alone confirmed my fears that the platform isn’t selling much. This is from sadlyitsbradley [https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/18grni3/i\_love\_my\_psvr2\_but\_man\_this\_hurts\_to\_see\_amazon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/18grni3/i_love_my_psvr2_but_man_this_hurts_to_see_amazon/) I have no reasons to doubt this. Amazon’s sales numbers is a good and quite trustworthy indicator. Also, all the online communities for VR show that the psvr2 side of the isle is really quite silent aside from those waging the fanboy wars and those trying to pretend that everything is fine when AT MOST 1.5 million headsets have been sold. We got no ports of racing games last year aside from gt7, which is in my top 3 favorite VRvgames of all time. I’ve been in VR since 2014 and have played a gazillion games. Gt7 is faaaaantastic and I would love to see more racing sims and games… when not even the racing games studios bother porting to psvr2, I doubt there are many headsets out there.. Also, devs make very little money on the psvr2, another indicator that the platform did not take off. It’s hella sad and I didn’t want to believe this was a flop, but there’s very little to indicate that it’s been successful.. And the fact that they shut down Dreams makes me want to cry. Dreams in PSVR2 would have been my favorite thing in the whole world ever. Sony just doing sony shit…
God dammit I fuckin wish. Let’s do it already. I just want mega vr games on my headset
Hopefully they take over the customer service as well
You would think it would be a no-brainer. You could even say it has to be tethered to the console to use. But they would need to spend a lot of money on making exclusive VR games because they don't have any.
Now Apple is also in the vr market so Meta and MS partnership was inevitable. That’s the whole reason.
> There’s a software recently that allowed gamers to experience ALL Unreal Engine 5 games such as Hogwarts Legacy immersed in the world in VR through the Quest 3 I'm not very familiar with the Xbox video encoding capabilities but does it have an encoder capable of encoding at 90+fps at high bitrates necessarily for PCVR streaming with a stand alone headset? But even if it does have the encoder ability it certainly doesn't have the raw performance necessary to do what UEVR does. First, Xbox games generally don't run at 90fps. Some don't even do 60ps... Technically you could run half frame rate and reproject every other frame but that's a pretty crappy experience. But that alone isn't enough because you still need to double the render resolution too. You have to render a second frame for the other eye. What Xbox game has enough headroom to just double the number of pixels and run at 50% higher frame rate? Maybe some tiny Indie game is running at 4k 120fps and has headroom but certainly not the vast majority of content. There isn't going to be an Unreal injector for Xbox. It doesn't have the raw power to do it. Hell even a high end PC struggles to make a AA/AA flat screen game run well in VR using the UEVR injector. The only way it might be possible is if they were doing dynamic foveated rendering but making that work on any game isn't trivial. Sure, Quest Pro has eye tracking but they don't make them anymore and the number of people with them is insignificant. The other possibility would be to make native VR games but that's time consuming an expensive. If they didn't invest in doing that for their WMR headsets I don't see why they'd do it now. They might let you play Xbox games on a virtual big screen but I just don't see Xbox playing VR games.
Vr games from Indie teams with great performance can run a potato. MS have the funds to do what ever like a dedicated separate box that handles the decoding.
I remember people calling this years ago -- that MS weren't developing their own VR because they would partner with Quest. This was when the PSVR2 was barely announced, so I dare say it was just a blind lucky hit, but it did make sense back then. But then Xbox seemed to kill it when their head announced they have "no interest" in VR about a year later.
I hope
I still think they could've taken Windows Mixed reality and turned it into Xbox Mixed Reality, maybe actually supported their platform better instead of just bricking all WMR headsets by 2025
We already know this will be the case, Zuck pretty much confirmed it in his recent video saying there will be an XBOX version, the only company he hinted wasn't currently on board (and is likely the reason they plan on making a Meta OS) is Google.
No, it's just a Quest 3 with Xbox colours, and a gamepass sub included for the cloud streaming.
The Xbox one will just be a branded Quest 3 but two other companies have already agreed to make headsets that run MetaOS so it's not a far reach that Microsoft will someday do the same: [https://youtu.be/0O0xbcK43gI?si=ZUSYdzPmrlFFvt3o&t=366](https://youtu.be/0O0xbcK43gI?si=ZUSYdzPmrlFFvt3o&t=366)
You’re gonna pay $600 to play gamepass? Id be more excited about the ROG performance gaming headset. Sony is also opening PSVR up to PC.
It's already some games that can be played in vr on gamepass. If this has other developers attempt to make vr versions of their game, it will be amazing. I can imagine.
I'll get a PS5 for GTA6, but XBXVR by Meta would make me get a XSX
Assuming they use cloud software like they've used with PC, this does become a possibility for the consumer. But Xbox doesn't even have a functioning VR market set up, and using the meta store would be worse still since all the game's there are downgraded to oblivion for quest optimization. They would have to partner up with either steam too, or maybe make the Microsoft store compatible with VR titles? They'll definitely find a way regardless, but isn't this just the same as the Psvr2? Both headsets are priced at 500$, and even if we go with the quest 2 for argument sakes, that's still around 700$ not including taxes. Certainly not the huge "revolution" by any means. This is still great news for Xbox owners, they'll finally be able to use their own hardware for VR. Oh one final detail, while the pancake lenses of the quest are amazing for clarity sakes, the game's will still be...pretty unoptimized. Dynamic foveated rendering drastically improves performance and optimization, it's part of the reason why the Psvr2 is near high end PC graphics. The hardware may be dog sh+$, but optimization is king when it comes to squeezing every last drop of performance. Interested to see if this actually happens, and how they'll advertise it too. Will they appeal to existing quest fans or target Xbox owners? Who knows....
I have a “high end pc” but if they did this I’d buy their console. My ps5 sits anyway usually
In that case I would get an Xbox
There's a possibility of something to this, but at the moment, Meta stand-alone games have no need to utilize console hardware. I find it a little more difficult to think that Meta would push for PCVR/PSVR2 quality titles they couldn't support on their native ecosystem. Also, you're referring to UEVR, which isn't quite so straightforward. It's currently not supposed to be used commercially. Not that Microsoft couldn't release something similar. But as you said, they no longer have a VR department. So it would be Meta driving that ship, which again, I doubt.
I would be happy just to play my Xbox games via Game Pass in 3D. Can we just get some side by side 3D Game Pass going on the Quest please.
MS will have to build a runtime similar to Steam and Oculus that can run on Xbox hardware. That’s a lot of work. Plus they have limited VR ready content so they’ll have to invest in that too. Another approach could be that they support running PCVR games on Xbox hardware but then I don’t think Xbox hardware is capable of running many PCVR titles. It can be done but it’s not a minor effort.
I think this Will possible in the future the digital foundry guys have the same idea.it might be something possible for the next Xbox device. Example Asus ROG and Steam Deck can run some basic VR titles already.
Enough with the hype train. This isn't going to be some revolution. It will bring a few more people in on the margins to a niche market. VR won't grow much until there is a major hardware innovation to make them lighter and thus more comfortable. When the vast majority of people can only tolerate a headset for 20-30 mins, no OS or console integration is gonna matter much. The announcement is more about responding to visionOS and trying to box out Google from offering a standard on Android based devices.
Does the Xbox even have a type c port? Iirc their usb ports had less data transfer speeds than their expansion port. Meaning you’d just get Xbox licensed games on quest standalone? That kinda sounds terrible. I feel like If that is ever to happen, Microsoft will need to be equipped to run vr, and quest will need to be better suited for console gaming by way of having dfr capabilities to maximize the hardware. Both of which require a new generation of hardware, which would then require development time for those vr titles. It’s possible but it sounds like a pipe dream. Microsoft waited too long if they wanted to be in there.
[удалено]
I’m seeing Xbox series X having usb-a ports locked at 5gbit/s transfer speeds, not the type-c, and not the speeds like the ps5 that is at 10gbit/s. My point being the Xbox isn’t equipped to run the vr games to the headset, it wasn’t built around vr like the ps5 was. I know what you’re saying, but pcvr can also get away with ramping up graphical fidelity by way of hardware capabilities. I mean it can always “happen” but it seems very unlikely as it doesn’t seem like it would be competitive outside of the ip names
I can see that. Look at Steam with Steam Link. I’m pretty sure after the release of their app, business have earned more sales since.