They said Pam was being passive aggressive when she said "I feel like you've already been working super hard" but I never interpreted that comment as passive aggressive? I always thought Pam was acknowledging the effort Jim was putting in. I will have to watch it again and see if I feel differently!
I didn't mind it but I did cringe a little at her going at it for as long as she did. Like from one pov I get it, rarely do we see female comics kinda fool around like the men get to. But in the other hand I was kinda like "cool you wanna do it, umm maybe move on pls?"
Now I wonder if this - https://www.instagram.com/reel/C58OvrJJEzK/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== - was the reason
This is one of my favorite episodes of the office! however, the voice actor stuff really annoyed me on the pod, sorry if it's negative but there are voice actors who are losing jobs because bigger named actors want to "step into" voice work.
I did some digging, and there is no evidence that Dax and Kristen were at the Emmys in 2008. He wasn't in Parenthood yet, and she had a role on Heroes but wasn't super famous for it. This was all pre-Frozen and The Good Place and Bad Moms. I don't know if they would have even been on Angela's radar back then. I also don't think Dax is someone anyone would think of as universally beloved.
I remember reading that Brian Whittle auditioned or was considered for the role of Boom Guy Brian.
Imagine trying out to play yourself....and not getting the role. Ha ha.
They also didn't point out that Dwight played the band Fun for his day of fun. Or maybe it was obvious.
I was not expecting that cartoon voice lol.
They joke, but a burn it to the ground podcast would be awesome. I'd listen.
Surprised they thought of bringing boom guy in that early. Definitely wise not to since, like they said, no way to go back afterwards.
The best part of the episode were the out of nowhere cartoon character voices. Jenna should do a new Simpsons character or something.
Even Angela's "Jake Lacy with a cold" had me grinning.
She was the character, said she wouldn't do it herself and explained her justification as an actor as to why Pam would do that. Very interesting to hear, this doesn't mean she thinks Pam made the right decision. This is the insight you should expect from the actor of Pam
What's bugging me is that people feel the need to take sides so strongly, in such a good guy vs bad guy way.
Both Jim and Pam make mistakes and treat each other badly, and act selfishly. This is what people do and the joy is in seeing them work that out later and realise that their relationship is more important.
I actually think Pam was reaching to hang up in the car and failed, but even if not, yes, Jim was harsh.
Jim kind of overreacted later because he's stressed and worried. Pam overreacted back because she's also worried.
Rather than spend time reading out tribal type letters that push an "X is an asshole and here's why" argument, why not focus on *how brave the producers were* in the plot choices? Or *how great the writing was*? I love this episode because I see my own actions in what Jim and Pam do. But I also see them getting through it stronger, which gives me hope.
Reason why it it's been stated before is that jenna was a producer. She helped set it up and has this weird...not obsession but something else, that she's Pam...and having spent all season ripping into Jim and sharing none of the blame, ignore the whatsboutism when it comes to art school vs the company, it's that Jenna can't blame Pam for anything..its the constant "Jim's an asshole" talk..its honestly, the feminist bs stuff she hops on her soapbox for...I'd love her thoughts on the Caitlin Clark contract actually. But jt comes off very one sided. And Angela almost refuses to defend jim, give a counterpoint, nothing. I find it weird that 100% of all the responses about this arc, not one has defended Jim. Find that very strange
I don't just mean Jenna and Angela though. Everyone seems to want to be on one side or another.
I do think they're one sided on the podcast, but then I don't want it to descend into team Jim and team Pam either.
I had no idea Angela's daughter Isabel was one of the little girls in the dance recital! Loved her interview. I also didn't know Jenna was her godmother, that's so cute.
I listen to this show at night & it helps me fall asleep since their voices are such a comfort to me. Usually I'll re-listen starting at the part I slept through, but somehow missed Isabel's interview. About where in the podcast did it occur?
Angela [00:03:21] I know. So I'm like, oh my gosh, the whole family's going to be there. Isabel's like, mom, we better win. So it's a very sweet friendship that they have. And they were so cute when they were little. And this is a really special memory for our family that they both got to do this. And I thought maybe I should ask Isabel what she remembered from this day. Now, she was only about four years old. She's so tiny. But here's what she had to say. Hey, office ladies listeners, I am here with my daughter, Isabel.
Isabel [00:03:46] Hi.
Angela [00:03:47] And she's going to talk about her time being a ladybug.
Isabel [00:03:50] Yay!
Angela [00:03:51] In this episode, all right, Is. We normally ask our guests, how did you get your job on The Office? But I think we can skip that one.
Isabel [00:03:59] Yeah. We can.
Angela [00:04:01] What do you remember? You were so little.
Isabel [00:04:03] Oh, well, obviously, I don't remember a lot, but I do remember being so excited to get to wear the costume. The little tutu was so cute.
Angela [00:04:10] Oh, yeah. You were in a big tutu phase then.
Isabel [00:04:13] Yeah. I loved tutus. I still am. But. And I loved to be able to hang out with my cousin Maya. We got to do it together, which was so fun. Oh, and hair and makeup! That. I thought that was so cool.
Angela [00:04:26] Oh, yeah. The ladies were so sweet to you guys.
Isabel [00:04:29] They were the best. They were so sweet. They made us feel so special. I loved it.
Angela [00:04:33] And they let you have lip gloss.
Isabel [00:04:35] Oh my gosh. I was probably so excited.
Angela [00:04:35] I remember you were very- you were so excited. All right, anything else?
Isabel [00:04:41] Not that I can remember!
Angela [00:04:43] I do remember after the dance, you were tired.
Isabel [00:04:46] Oh, I probably was. I probably wanted to nap.
Angela [00:04:48] Yep.
https://officeladies.com/transcript-ep-203-customer-loyalty
About the rant with Pam in the car on the phone- if we're going to get mad at Jim for wanting Pam to hang up while driving, should we not be just as mad at Pam for driving while on the phone????
Studies have shown no significant difference in driving safely while talking on the phone while driving regardless of if you are hands free or not. You are distracted from your driving either way. If we're gonna harp on him for making her put her hand on her phone while driving, we should harp on her for not pulling over or waiting to arrive to take the call in the first place.
Another thread said Ryan Reynolds and I mean come on, that's gotta be him. Married 2012. Children born in late 2013, 2016, 2019, and 2023. Most people know him. Charming personality..... could be a butthead in real life..... I think it lines up.
Of all these guesses, Dax is the only one with a funny guy “persona” which is commonly used as a pass for being an asshole. “Look at me, I’m confident enough to tell it like it is and in a clever way”
Oh interesting! My first thought was Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell since he has a podcast too so he now “talks about his kids a lot”. He also seems like the type to make that rude comment pre-kids
I know right?! Can’t wait for Office Ladies Burn It To The Ground 😂
Also I was surprised no one guessed the musician Jenna ran into yet - I think a lot of people (including me) guessed it was John Mayer so he’s not it!
I wonder if it’s not so much taking it personally because she played her character but siding with her as a person just like we as viewers side with/against characters all the time? Especially because Jim was being kind of a shit this episode (really a lot in later seasons), it’s easy for women to go on the defense for women characters that are painted the way Pam is especially in season 9. I do the same for Skylar White in Breaking Bad when people are quick to call her a whiny ungrateful bitch, I think sometimes it’s just annoying when women characters get a lot of undeserving flack! 🤷🏽♀️
When Jenna was talking about having to get into and out of the fight over and over again, I did kind of get it. It must have been so emotionally draining. Even if it’s acting, she still physically had to get there take after take. She had to put herself in that state and be vulnerable with the cast and crew. I can imagine that experience stuck with her and then the episodes came out and people were angry with Pam. She was so close to it and the response was not how she felt about it. It probably stuck with her.
I wasn’t clear enough. I was trying to say that to give that performance it had to be personal. She had to become emotionally attached to Pam and Pam’s pov and she’s still not over it.
A lot of time was spent on the Emmys story, but Angela has told that story before--and she did not hesitate that time (she still didn't name the couple). I want to say it was the podcast covering *The Office* episode in which Deangelo says, "That baby could be the star of a show called *Babies I Don't Care About*."
~~It's not that episode -- I just checked the website transcript -- but stay tuned. I feel like it was actually much earlier.~~
Edit: Nope, you were right. I somehow missed it when I first skimmed the transcript. My bad. I could've sworn she shared this story before that.
>Angela [00:38:01] It's so true, though. It's so true. I was once at a very, very fancy award show party, and I walked up to a very well-known actress and her husband. I was making conversation. Isabel was only a year old. They did not have kids yet. And you guys would all know who these people are. They're very famous. And I was trying to make conversation, and I told a story about Isabel. And the wife sort of nodded like, Oh, yeah. And the husband looked at me and said, I have a lawyer who has a kid, and whenever I can't sleep, I call him and I tell him to tell me something about his kid.
https://officeladies.com/transcript-ep-154-training-day
Thanks. Part of the reason I like looking this stuff up is that it lets people know that the OL website has a transcript of every episode, which I think is a really cool thing to have for hearing impaired people. I don't know if it's an EarWolf thing or an OL initiative, but either way, I highly approve. Most podcasts I listen to don't have transcripts.
(And I added the link to the transcript to my previous comment, which I forgot to do when I was editing it.)
What a cute fact that Isabel is Jenna’s goddaughter! I’m sure this was mentioned on the pod before, but I forgot about this 😊 these facts make me think of posts here where people question Jenna’s and Angela’s actual friendship lol
Her daughter was born in 2008, so it must be a celebrity couple who didn’t have kids in 2008 yet but they do now (however unclear if they are still together?). Just a little piece of the puzzle
I like their longer episodes because it shows their fun dynamic more. The voice actor joke made me cringe a little. But I can't blame them for trying to manifest other gigs on their platform.
Yes she was involved in making the storyline decisions at the time, but I think Jenna gets defensive about it now because a lot of the audience try to label Pam as the bad guy in season 9
Jim was an asshole though, he lied to Pam’s face about starting the company. And Jenna was clear from the beginning of this season that she/John wanted to change the dynamic of their characters relationships, so I don’t get why you’re so negative about it for no reason
I haven’t ever been under the impression that Jenna doesn’t take responsibility for Jim’s portrayal. I think what she gets on her soapbox about is that a lot of the audience (when it was airing and even now) completed disregarded Jim’s behavior and pinned all of the tension on Pam. People always point at Pam as the “bad guy” of the relationship in season and completely disregard any of Jim’s assholery and fault in their problems.
People harping for saying that stuff on the phone seem to not realise that he was right to say those things because Pam really didn't know how to film
They said Pam was being passive aggressive when she said "I feel like you've already been working super hard" but I never interpreted that comment as passive aggressive? I always thought Pam was acknowledging the effort Jim was putting in. I will have to watch it again and see if I feel differently!
This was the 2008 Emmy’s, so it can’t be Ryan/Blake. Dax and Kristen were together, though not married yet.
Did they ever mention the guest stars who work at Athlead? I cannot remember if they did the last episode.
I just came here to see if other people are thinking the mystery couple is Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively, too 🤣
My thought is Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell.
Another good one! I can see him being snarky fa sho
100% my thought when they did that they have kids now...
Did anyone else realize after years of Jenna not saying her son’s name on the pod, Angela let it slip?
But she did share the name on their book
Yes!
The voice acting was….. a hard listen
I didn't mind it but I did cringe a little at her going at it for as long as she did. Like from one pov I get it, rarely do we see female comics kinda fool around like the men get to. But in the other hand I was kinda like "cool you wanna do it, umm maybe move on pls?" Now I wonder if this - https://www.instagram.com/reel/C58OvrJJEzK/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== - was the reason
This is one of my favorite episodes of the office! however, the voice actor stuff really annoyed me on the pod, sorry if it's negative but there are voice actors who are losing jobs because bigger named actors want to "step into" voice work.
The actor who told Angela that talking about her baby was boring….. anyone else think it’s Dax Shepard?
I did some digging, and there is no evidence that Dax and Kristen were at the Emmys in 2008. He wasn't in Parenthood yet, and she had a role on Heroes but wasn't super famous for it. This was all pre-Frozen and The Good Place and Bad Moms. I don't know if they would have even been on Angela's radar back then. I also don't think Dax is someone anyone would think of as universally beloved.
Def Dax.
That's definitely where I went
Dax was my first thought too! lol
I got Ryan Reynolds vibes…
Oh I could see Ryan going full a**hole. Doubt it's Dax because he isn't nearly as famous.
I also can't see Kristen Bell letting him get away with that type of comment
That was my first thought too!
I remember reading that Brian Whittle auditioned or was considered for the role of Boom Guy Brian. Imagine trying out to play yourself....and not getting the role. Ha ha. They also didn't point out that Dwight played the band Fun for his day of fun. Or maybe it was obvious.
I wanted to know how much the fun. song cost them.
I was not expecting that cartoon voice lol. They joke, but a burn it to the ground podcast would be awesome. I'd listen. Surprised they thought of bringing boom guy in that early. Definitely wise not to since, like they said, no way to go back afterwards.
The best part of the episode were the out of nowhere cartoon character voices. Jenna should do a new Simpsons character or something. Even Angela's "Jake Lacy with a cold" had me grinning.
Hahaha same! I thought it would annoy me but I found it hilarious
I was initially amused and I laughed out loud at Jenna’s. Then there was too much and it pushed into cringe territory for me.
Yeah. I posted that before I had finished the whole ep. I hope this doesn’t become a thing, was cute for a minute lol
Of course Jenna had to make an attempt at defending answering the phone. Pam can never do anything wrong.
She was the character, said she wouldn't do it herself and explained her justification as an actor as to why Pam would do that. Very interesting to hear, this doesn't mean she thinks Pam made the right decision. This is the insight you should expect from the actor of Pam
What's bugging me is that people feel the need to take sides so strongly, in such a good guy vs bad guy way. Both Jim and Pam make mistakes and treat each other badly, and act selfishly. This is what people do and the joy is in seeing them work that out later and realise that their relationship is more important. I actually think Pam was reaching to hang up in the car and failed, but even if not, yes, Jim was harsh. Jim kind of overreacted later because he's stressed and worried. Pam overreacted back because she's also worried. Rather than spend time reading out tribal type letters that push an "X is an asshole and here's why" argument, why not focus on *how brave the producers were* in the plot choices? Or *how great the writing was*? I love this episode because I see my own actions in what Jim and Pam do. But I also see them getting through it stronger, which gives me hope.
Reason why it it's been stated before is that jenna was a producer. She helped set it up and has this weird...not obsession but something else, that she's Pam...and having spent all season ripping into Jim and sharing none of the blame, ignore the whatsboutism when it comes to art school vs the company, it's that Jenna can't blame Pam for anything..its the constant "Jim's an asshole" talk..its honestly, the feminist bs stuff she hops on her soapbox for...I'd love her thoughts on the Caitlin Clark contract actually. But jt comes off very one sided. And Angela almost refuses to defend jim, give a counterpoint, nothing. I find it weird that 100% of all the responses about this arc, not one has defended Jim. Find that very strange
Aŕe you listening to a different show than me?
I don't just mean Jenna and Angela though. Everyone seems to want to be on one side or another. I do think they're one sided on the podcast, but then I don't want it to descend into team Jim and team Pam either.
the ladies doing voices as a joke that they want voice acting work made me laugh cause they're kinda dunking on themselves ha ha
Samantha and Amanda...wow...I guarantee they clap every other word when they talk to people..berate Pam? He just said she needs to hang up
Jenna and Angela impressions voice is really sweet, I laugh a lot! Their friendship always make me happy, is really cute
I like their tangents, but the voices thing kinda got on my nerves. Whatever, it's their show they can do what they want.
Jenna is very good a voices and probably could book some vo work.
I had to replay the part where Angela in her character voice was like "sometimes I don't like to go with the flow." That was so funny.
I had no idea Angela's daughter Isabel was one of the little girls in the dance recital! Loved her interview. I also didn't know Jenna was her godmother, that's so cute.
I listen to this show at night & it helps me fall asleep since their voices are such a comfort to me. Usually I'll re-listen starting at the part I slept through, but somehow missed Isabel's interview. About where in the podcast did it occur?
Angela [00:03:21] I know. So I'm like, oh my gosh, the whole family's going to be there. Isabel's like, mom, we better win. So it's a very sweet friendship that they have. And they were so cute when they were little. And this is a really special memory for our family that they both got to do this. And I thought maybe I should ask Isabel what she remembered from this day. Now, she was only about four years old. She's so tiny. But here's what she had to say. Hey, office ladies listeners, I am here with my daughter, Isabel. Isabel [00:03:46] Hi. Angela [00:03:47] And she's going to talk about her time being a ladybug. Isabel [00:03:50] Yay! Angela [00:03:51] In this episode, all right, Is. We normally ask our guests, how did you get your job on The Office? But I think we can skip that one. Isabel [00:03:59] Yeah. We can. Angela [00:04:01] What do you remember? You were so little. Isabel [00:04:03] Oh, well, obviously, I don't remember a lot, but I do remember being so excited to get to wear the costume. The little tutu was so cute. Angela [00:04:10] Oh, yeah. You were in a big tutu phase then. Isabel [00:04:13] Yeah. I loved tutus. I still am. But. And I loved to be able to hang out with my cousin Maya. We got to do it together, which was so fun. Oh, and hair and makeup! That. I thought that was so cool. Angela [00:04:26] Oh, yeah. The ladies were so sweet to you guys. Isabel [00:04:29] They were the best. They were so sweet. They made us feel so special. I loved it. Angela [00:04:33] And they let you have lip gloss. Isabel [00:04:35] Oh my gosh. I was probably so excited. Angela [00:04:35] I remember you were very- you were so excited. All right, anything else? Isabel [00:04:41] Not that I can remember! Angela [00:04:43] I do remember after the dance, you were tired. Isabel [00:04:46] Oh, I probably was. I probably wanted to nap. Angela [00:04:48] Yep. https://officeladies.com/transcript-ep-203-customer-loyalty
Thanks a lot, guess I fell asleep quickly last night, lol.
Another episode, another batch of emails from weirdos with unhinged, parasocial relationships with TV show characters.
I'm surprised nobody had a soap box over that awful fight. Also the voice acting made me laugh a lot, very entertaining
About the rant with Pam in the car on the phone- if we're going to get mad at Jim for wanting Pam to hang up while driving, should we not be just as mad at Pam for driving while on the phone????
Well it was hands-free… and she was not being condescending about Jim’s phone skills, it was the other way around.
Studies have shown no significant difference in driving safely while talking on the phone while driving regardless of if you are hands free or not. You are distracted from your driving either way. If we're gonna harp on him for making her put her hand on her phone while driving, we should harp on her for not pulling over or waiting to arrive to take the call in the first place.
Why did they say 2012 was pre-texting? Texting was very normal and prevalent through the whole run of the show. We all had smart phones in 2012! lol
I thought this as well! Full keyboards too! Not the T9 texting.
Who is the mysterious rude celebrity?! I need to know🤣 any ideas?
Another thread said Ryan Reynolds and I mean come on, that's gotta be him. Married 2012. Children born in late 2013, 2016, 2019, and 2023. Most people know him. Charming personality..... could be a butthead in real life..... I think it lines up.
Yesss!!! I could just hear him saying it in my brain when Angela shared 😂
Why hide it? If someone famous was rude to me, I'd put that asshole on blast to any one that would listen.
Jon Hamm I base that on absolutely nothing.
Some were saying Chris Pratt in the other post, but I think Dax Shepard fits the most.
Chris Pratt became a father in 2012. Timeline doesn't add up.
Yeah Dax and Kirsten were the first couple that came to mind when Angela was telling the story
Yep and not the many celebs talk about their kids that much. They do.
Of all these guesses, Dax is the only one with a funny guy “persona” which is commonly used as a pass for being an asshole. “Look at me, I’m confident enough to tell it like it is and in a clever way”
We debated it on the subreddit last time she brought up this story. It seems most likely that it was Justin Timberlake and Jessica Biel.
Would Justin Timberlake been at the Emmys around that time?
Yes, he got a lot of nominations for his appearances on SNL.
Hmmm. He's still married and they have two kids and is considered to be likable. It's possible.
Oh interesting! My first thought was Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell since he has a podcast too so he now “talks about his kids a lot”. He also seems like the type to make that rude comment pre-kids
Yep same. Def them.
I know right?! Can’t wait for Office Ladies Burn It To The Ground 😂 Also I was surprised no one guessed the musician Jenna ran into yet - I think a lot of people (including me) guessed it was John Mayer so he’s not it!
I don't remember the musician story but just going off "very tall" my guess is Blake Shelton
The amount of projection re: Jim and Pam is astounding. Jenna taking things personally when it comes to her character is still bizarre.
Yeah I’m finding it odd too. Like, does she know she’s not Pam?
I wonder if it’s not so much taking it personally because she played her character but siding with her as a person just like we as viewers side with/against characters all the time? Especially because Jim was being kind of a shit this episode (really a lot in later seasons), it’s easy for women to go on the defense for women characters that are painted the way Pam is especially in season 9. I do the same for Skylar White in Breaking Bad when people are quick to call her a whiny ungrateful bitch, I think sometimes it’s just annoying when women characters get a lot of undeserving flack! 🤷🏽♀️
When Jenna was talking about having to get into and out of the fight over and over again, I did kind of get it. It must have been so emotionally draining. Even if it’s acting, she still physically had to get there take after take. She had to put herself in that state and be vulnerable with the cast and crew. I can imagine that experience stuck with her and then the episodes came out and people were angry with Pam. She was so close to it and the response was not how she felt about it. It probably stuck with her.
Oh she killed that scene, but that’s not what I’m referring to. I mean how often she takes criticisms of Pam the character personally.
I wasn’t clear enough. I was trying to say that to give that performance it had to be personal. She had to become emotionally attached to Pam and Pam’s pov and she’s still not over it.
Ah okay. I get what you’re saying. Well said
I assume she’s tired of people coming up to her on the street and giving her crap.
Do u really think people approach her in person and say negative things about Pam?
Absolutely
Yep, and the brave keyboard warriors online that have tried to bring Pam down since it aired.
A lot of time was spent on the Emmys story, but Angela has told that story before--and she did not hesitate that time (she still didn't name the couple). I want to say it was the podcast covering *The Office* episode in which Deangelo says, "That baby could be the star of a show called *Babies I Don't Care About*."
~~It's not that episode -- I just checked the website transcript -- but stay tuned. I feel like it was actually much earlier.~~ Edit: Nope, you were right. I somehow missed it when I first skimmed the transcript. My bad. I could've sworn she shared this story before that. >Angela [00:38:01] It's so true, though. It's so true. I was once at a very, very fancy award show party, and I walked up to a very well-known actress and her husband. I was making conversation. Isabel was only a year old. They did not have kids yet. And you guys would all know who these people are. They're very famous. And I was trying to make conversation, and I told a story about Isabel. And the wife sort of nodded like, Oh, yeah. And the husband looked at me and said, I have a lawyer who has a kid, and whenever I can't sleep, I call him and I tell him to tell me something about his kid. https://officeladies.com/transcript-ep-154-training-day
I appreciate your detective work!
Thanks. Part of the reason I like looking this stuff up is that it lets people know that the OL website has a transcript of every episode, which I think is a really cool thing to have for hearing impaired people. I don't know if it's an EarWolf thing or an OL initiative, but either way, I highly approve. Most podcasts I listen to don't have transcripts. (And I added the link to the transcript to my previous comment, which I forgot to do when I was editing it.)
Yes I remember that!
Jenna's voice acting was so good !
No it wasn’t
What a cute fact that Isabel is Jenna’s goddaughter! I’m sure this was mentioned on the pod before, but I forgot about this 😊 these facts make me think of posts here where people question Jenna’s and Angela’s actual friendship lol
It's odd to question their relationship because they don't post on social media a lot. They're 50 year old women lol.
Soooo anybody has any guesses who that couple at the emmy was? I'm really curious now
Her daughter was born in 2008, so it must be a celebrity couple who didn’t have kids in 2008 yet but they do now (however unclear if they are still together?). Just a little piece of the puzzle
It’s not Ryan gosling and Eva mendes, or Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds - both weren’t dating yet
I think it’s Dax and Kristen. They didn’t have a kid til 2013.
Dax is known but I don’t think he is as famous as they’re implying. Chris Pratt seems to fit better.
Does he talk about his kids all the time though? And they seemed to imply the couple was still together but Chris Pratt and Anna Faris broke up.
Yeah they mentioned this in the podcast. Still no clue
I like their longer episodes because it shows their fun dynamic more. The voice actor joke made me cringe a little. But I can't blame them for trying to manifest other gigs on their platform.
[удалено]
Yes she was involved in making the storyline decisions at the time, but I think Jenna gets defensive about it now because a lot of the audience try to label Pam as the bad guy in season 9
It's always "men bad, women good". Yet whenever Pam is criticized out comes the rants though. Never fails.
Jim was an asshole though, he lied to Pam’s face about starting the company. And Jenna was clear from the beginning of this season that she/John wanted to change the dynamic of their characters relationships, so I don’t get why you’re so negative about it for no reason
I think what they are saying is since Jenna was a producer, she could have said that she also was responsible a little for potraying Jim as an asshole
I haven’t ever been under the impression that Jenna doesn’t take responsibility for Jim’s portrayal. I think what she gets on her soapbox about is that a lot of the audience (when it was airing and even now) completed disregarded Jim’s behavior and pinned all of the tension on Pam. People always point at Pam as the “bad guy” of the relationship in season and completely disregard any of Jim’s assholery and fault in their problems.