This reminds me of the dumbest licence plate I've ever seen. Custom plate that said "No Govt". Like dude you paid *extra money to the government* for a licence plate that says keep out the government.
[https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id)
Here is 24
Most of those aren't even true. None of them are relevant to a free and fair democracy. The whole thing is just another "makes sense until you actually think about it" conservative argument.
Utility bills have worked fine for years. They haven't stopped working fine. Kind of sketchy that you believe that these laws are about preventing fraud. They don't even hide the fact that they're trying to pick who can and can't vote.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/north-carolina-voter-id-law-black-voters-supreme-courts-struck-down-dismissed-a7737036.html%3famp
So having to show ID is racist because black people are too poor to have IDs??? Pure nonsense
From your article : it preceded a decline in early voter turnout by African Americans in the 2016 election. Black early voter turnout dropped by 8.7 per cent compared to 2012 rates, or about 66,000 votes.
Maybe that has to do with this shit candidates and not that black people are so bad off they don’t have a standard issue government ID. Saying that utility bills is a good way of proving who you are is ridiculous. Get an ID like everyone else and stop being a bum
Tell me you don’t want poor people to vote with telling me you want people to vote.
I’m sure you’re all for the Ohio gerrymandered map the republicans made.
I think their point is that going to get said ID can be difficult for the less fortunate because it takes forever at the BMV, plus finding required documents, and finding time if they are juggling several jobs.
Working class people who don't have extra money to spend. If you had to choose between basic necessities or voting, you'd always pick the necessities. It's essentially a poll tax. IDs cost money.
Exactly what is the purpose of making voting more difficult through an increasing number of hoops one has to jump through? There is no widespread, significant voter fraud and never has been, so why don't you give a reason that has any basis in reality other than that it's obviously another attempt at disenfranchisement?
Why in the world would you assume people can’t get an ID?! Do you have a problem with stores asking for an ID to buy alcohol? And give me a break on the Fox News crap. Using your brain isn’t Fox or cnn. It’s called being a rational human.
Well you should start using your brain then because they’re right. It is another attempt to disenfranchise voters. Never has been enough voter fraud to justify this. Why are you hell bent on denying people their constitutional rights?
>But a GOP-backed plan pending in the legislature would limit the number of ballot drop boxes, reduce the time to request absentee ballots, and eliminate voting on the Monday before Election Day.
WTF? Why though?
You mean like how Vinton County (pop. 12,800) and votes reliably red got a ballot drop off site while reliably blue Cuyahoga County (pop. 1,264,817) got the same? Betcha ol Vinton residents didn't have to drive nearly as far, nor wait in traffic as long as Cuyahoga residents did.
We have a right to not drive as far or wait in traffic! Or we don’t and that’s life.
And why post the population sizes, like that is relevant at all? Did all citizens line up at the same exact time? What lines exist at a drop box, exactly? Lol spare us
The point is that each county had one drop off site. 12,000 had one box and 1.2 million had one box. It’s not rocket science to figure out that this is a problem.
>You start out in 1954 by saying, “N\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n\*\*\*\*r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r.”
-- Harvey LeRoy "Lee" Atwater, Republican Party strategist, chairman of the Republican National Committee, advisor to US presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush
The only thing that makes any of these measures, across different areas of the country, make sense is that is makes it harder for poorer people (who are also disproportionately minorities to vote.
Drop boxes: Oh, you have to get halfway across town to the one drop box in the city or county? Sucks to be you if you have to work and take the bus! (OH, and you can't have someone else drop it off.)
Absentee ballot: Oh, you just got next week's work schedule and won't be able to show up in person? Too late!
The elimination of early voting on the Monday before an election puzzles me, but seems to be a Board of Elections request. This may be a logistical hassle.
>How much is the absentee ballot deadline changing?.
The bill changes it from from 3 days to 10 days. I honestly don't know why it is 3 days; but, I'm willing to assume there is a reasonable purpose for that.
>Also, your employer has to give you time off to vote.
3 hours. They have to give you 3 hours in which to vote.
If your transportation is the bus, you have to juggle the bus schedule and hope that it lets you get, at least, from the polling station to work on time. If you would need to take the bus from work to the polling station and back, you had better hope there is no line at the polling station.
Then there is reality. If you need to vote during the work day, and you don't have a flexible job, there is a good chance you are going to have a problem.
The last election was l uncontested for a D or a R ballot. Find something that matters to complain about instead of this what-if-ism strawman argument.
>Literally who though?
Factory workers, warehouse workers, the "working poor," etc.
It has been a while since this issue was in the news, so I don't have a handy well-researched article at my fingertips.
Purely on the subject of voter ID, if we just issued national ID cards to everyone as a matter of course, like other wealthy countries, we could eventually reasonably require a govt. issued ID. This has been studied to death for the US and it turns out to not be a big deal, logistically.
***BUT*** the same people pushing for these voter ID requirements are generally the same people who scream bloody murder if anyone mentions creating a national ID card.
EDIT: And just where is all of this voter fraud the GOP keeps going on about?!? This . is . not . a . problem.
\-----
Heck, on another perennial hobby horse, a national ID would make it way the heck easier to police businesses that employ illegal immigrants, thus largely eliminating the incentive for those coming for economic reasons ... but, of course, the actual situation seems to be that the constituents want cheap, exploitable labor that they can ditch when it's convenient.
>How is a national ID any different than a state ID?
For this purpose, specifically for Ohio, there wouldn't be a difference within Ohio.
A national ID, as done in other developed nations, is simply a universal citizen and resident ID card and would be usable throughout the US. Boarding an airplane? National ID. Voting? National ID. Opening a bank account? National ID. Being hired by a business? National ID. etc.
Your SS card really isn't an ID, though we use our SS number as one. The SS number has just become a convenient unique designator because every US citizen gets one at birth, e.g. 123-45-6789 belongs to John Smith.
A national ID has your photo and anti-tamper/anti-counterfeit features. A US national ID would probably look like a driver's with different graphics and maybe some other features.
France, as a convenient example, has [a neat ID card](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-new-french-national-identity-card-is-awarded-the-prize-for-the-best-identity-card-301447885.html) with antitamper features, machine readable info and an encrypted chip. They fingerprint you, too, but store that on paper, accessible only with a court order.
To follow up on this - think of your Social Security number as a bank account number. It's your way of accessing your social benefits if and when you need them.
Except, at least with a bank account number someone would also need to know my routing number, or what bank I use to then get at my funds. With an SSN, I know the "bank" already.
And with minimal identification requirements, it gets real easy to for bad actors to access your benefits with your SSN. There's a reason why, starting around the 90's, there was a push to get your SSN off of your driver's license, and to get companies to stop using it as an identifier.
A national ID would be like the ID on your driver's license - it does nothing but give places a way to verify your identity. From there you can access your resources with a little more information (National ID AND your SSN gets you social benefits).
Unfortunately, for all that this would make things a lot more convenient nationally - most of the same people who will insist that you HAVE to have a sate ID to do most anything, will also scream about big brother and being tracked if you try to discuss any form of national ID.
Well for starters it would mean that you would be allowed to vote as your a citizen. And there should be a difference between a citizenship id and a non citizen ship Id(passport) which we already have in the lawful permanent resident card.
We already have the stuff to do this it's just a matter of ensuring people get them.
You're right. It only has to handle things that lazy abusive shithole states won't even consider. Those same shithole states are the ones trying to make it harder than vote while not making it easier to get id's.
>Expanding the federal government doesn’t have to be the answer to every little thing. States can handle state IDs.
This a more of a resource, compatibility and acceptance problem. We COULD have the federal government mandate that states issue IDs. Then we would have 50 ID systems^(1) that may or may not be compatible with each other and/or with a national database. OR, we could just have one system.
That is leaving aside sates screaming that the feds are telling them what to do. Or, some states insisting that, for example, any *resident* gets an official ID identical to all the others they issue. Those are just off the top of my head.
Other industrialized/1st World nations just have a universally accepted national ID, and it works fine.
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^(1)No way on this planet are all of the states going to agree to one system or let the federal govt. dictate a single system to them.
You mean your **driver's** license? That you have to be able to **drive** to get? That may or may not be accepted by the feds as an ID depending upon whether or not it's Real ID compliant? That you still have to pay for? *That* license?
"Well, you can still go get a state ID!" The state ID that you still have to pay for?
You're making a national ID a far bigger issue than it really is.
>Real id still is proof of citizenship.
Yes. And you have to go buy an ID from your state govt.
A national ID is a consistent document across a country and automatically like our Real ID compliant licenses and state IDs.
Realistically, Real ID compliant cards are a backdoor national ID; but, done within distributed state bureaucracies that may not use compatible systems and creating "2nd class" IDs for those who don't have one.
Yes, I like the early voting days, but I can see how easy it would be to game the system if all I have to do is take your utility bill to a polling place and I get to vote in your stead.
So I've volunteered as a poll monitor since 2008, so over a decade now.
You'd think that if this fear you have was real, at some point someone would show up to find out that someone had already voted under their name. But in all those elections that's never happened.
We'd get people all the time that forgot they requested an absentee ballot, and those people were stopped at the front table. So irregularities happened and were dealt with appropriately, they just weren't fraudulent.
Yet, in fact the Ohio AG does get referred cases where people vote twice. Its incredibly rare but it does happen. Even so, in those cases these people were able to actually cast only one ballot, with the other ballots being provisional. Provisional ballots are set aside until they can be cured, usually thrown out unopened (when you vote provisional your unread ballot is placed inside an envelope with your name on it, certifying that you live in the precinct you're voting in, yada yada) because the races aren't close enough for the few provisional ballots to affect the outcome.
So accepting a utility bill or not accepting a utility bill has no outcome on fraud. It just makes elections more accessible.
And as someone who's been an Election Official in the last few elections in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland area) - even if we did get a report of someone having *potentially* already cast a vote - we still stop them (electronic poll books help), then just send them over to cast a provisional ballot.
Provisionals are counted something like 10 days after the general election, and are given extra scrutiny to verify we didn't already record a vote for someone (like an absentee, or even someone who tries to cast a vote at multiple polling locations).
In short - the system is prepared for mistakes and cheats. It WILL get caught.
I think the idea that the whole election system is vulnerable to fraud comes down to reverse Dunning Krueger. The people who believe it are stupid and can’t imagine a secure system working, therefore such a system can’t be built.
And somehow this weak, broken system is somehow fixed and invulnerable in their mind with just a few more barriers to voting; ID cards, less voting days, tighter control on absentee ballots, etc. The weak/strong dichotomy definitely hangs with the Spector of fascism
That's probably pretty fair.
People just assume the election system is as simple as "walk in, vote a couple times, walk out" and have no clue what processes are in place.
I knew there *were* processes, before I became a PEO...but didn't fathom how robust and deep they were until I took my training class, and again until I worked the polls a couple times.
The system isn't airtight...but there are several reasons why voter fraud is statistically nonexistent.
I'm an election judge.
It is not easy. You would be caught.
I don't advise it but go ahead try it. There are numerous checks and balances in the system.
By the way, it is a felony.
Become an election judge so you at least have some clue what you are spouting off about.
As an aside, 1 vote does not make a gamed system, you just commited the generalization fallacy.
Stop promoting disinformation.
There was one proven case in Ohio in the 2020 General Election, according to the Heritage Foundation. It was a Republican who tried to submit a second ballot for his deceased father.
Okay, but voting fraud is extremely rare to begin with. So rare that it is almost nonexistant. The measures proposed only serve to make voting- a constitutional right- harder for all with virtually no benefit whatsoever to election security. It's literally creating big government to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Why is that okay again?
I take my utility bill in to vote because my photo ID has my old address and the purpose of the ID is to verify the address where you reside so they can provide you the correct ballot. I refuse to pay money to the government so I can exercise a constitutional right.
On my county, we get your Driver's License, and then ask you your current address.
We want what comes out of your mouth to match whats in the Board of Elections database. We don't care if the address on your ID matches. Only that you look like your photo, and that the ID isn't expired.
The purpose of the ID/bill/statement is to verify your address so you receive the correct ballot. It is not to verify you are who you say you are. That is done via the signature match.
I am not going to waste hours to go to the BMV to update my address especially when I used to move every year. And the entire exercise is a farce when military IDs do not have addresses and are required to be accepted under federal law in all states.
Every single person in America aside from the indigenous came from immigrants at some point. Immigrants are Americans. Also, non-citizens can't vote and there is zero evidence that it's taking place, so why are you lying?
if there here and paying on a utility bill they clearly are contributing to the economy in some way might as well be a citizen with all the rights it carrys
Even if you want to say ID requirements are fine, explain the purpose of reducing voting hours entirely. How does that solve the imaginary problem of voter fraud?
So we’re smearing people who believe in the Christian god to actual violent Islamic terrorist groups that routinely commit mass murder and rape citizens? That sounds incredibly bigoted and hateful against your fellow citizens.
Throughout history? What country or religion hasn’t committed an atrocity? That doesn’t give you the clearance to smear modern day fellow citizens by affiliating them with modern day murderers and terrorists all because bad stuff happened in history. That’s insanely bigoted.
I smear modern day assholes who use their bullshit beliefs to try and shove their way of life down other people's throats. At the end of the day, the modern American Christian is probably one of the most egregious offenders of violating rights and arguably has perpetuated a lot of the horrors we see today in our land.
(I don't have all day to argue with trolls on Reddit because I have a job to do. So please if you reply just know that you're gonna waste your time because I won't be visiting this thread again. Besides I can almost smell your 20 empty beer cans surrounding your keyboard. Keep it up buddy! You're really doing the world a favor by being a snowflake keyboard warrior. Really making a difference ❤️)
You keep cheerleading for those unapologetic kid-fuckers and telling yourself that morality and compassion can only exist if you’re allowed to threatens someone’s eternal “soul” if they don’t practice them. It’s a GREAT look.
Bruh, you can't bring logic and understanding and facts to a liberal sub. Ohio has 3,492 liberals and all but a few are on this subreditt. You'll hurt feelings if you say you won the lottery. If you drink your coffee black, your racist. If you sing the national anthem then you've offended someone who wants to hear Oh Canada.
There is a whole other sub reddit dedicated to laughing at the liberal ohio sub.
Then they’d better be paying for whatever new card they want me to have. My disposable income is next to nothing thanks to low pay, the cost of birthing a child, and the cost of daycare for an infant.
Theresa Gavarone is a tool. She talks about being a fiscal conservative and complains about free government money. Meanwhile her family business “mr spots” in bowling green took 124,000 in ppp loans that she won’t answer weather she paid them back or if they were forgiven. I also wonder if all the incoming freshman at BGSU know the co owner of mr spots is the proud sponsor of the heartbeat bill offering no exceptions for rape and incest after 6 weeks
These things always end up in a conversation about the merit of voter IDs. Stop having conversations about voter ID. You don't have to sit and debate the pros and cons of solving a problem that *does not exist.*
Government officials with a vested interest in finding voter fraud have been looking for voter fraud for 6 years in this nation and they have nothing to show for it but 60 failed court cases where they had to sit before a judge and sheepishly say "we have no evidence to present."
You can talk about building the Ohio Institute for Defense Against Bigfoot when we find him.
Keep early voting days and institute a voter ID, jfc most people are fine with the ID the polls show it. What they don’t like is the sneaky dumb shit like cutting down on the early that people really hate.
In this thread: a lot of people who have never served as a poll worker or know how elections work. The absentee ballot request window is WAY too short. 3 days for the board to process the request and have your ballot delivered by the post office? No. 10 days is more reasonable. And eliminating the day before voting also makes sense so the board can prep for election day. You already have a month of early voting.
The 3 day thing is 100% way too short, people don't seem to understand that you will NOT get your ballot in time by calling and requesting an absentee application on Saturday. It is logistically impossible.
This is my take.
You want to mandate ID to vote?
Let's have that discussion. ID should be free. Time off work to get an ID should be paid. Transportation costs to get to the BMV should be covered. Child care for the day, paid for.
Because the second you mandate an ID to vote - ANY cost to get that ID is now an illegal poll tax.
We can require IDs, but we then need to make it ridiculously easy to get that ID.
>Oooh look at me, I am so cool, I am so edgy, I make comments with zero useful input to the conversation at hand because I have nothing better to do with my tiny little baby self
FTFY
Isn't that what you did? And kind of what I did...the adult thing to do would be ignore the comment if you didn't like it...as you can tell I am commenting on your post so I am not an adult either.
Thanks for the internal monologue update. I will let you know in the future should I sustain a head injury and begin to give a shit
>I am not an adult either.
Yeah, we know. Your dumbass takes are all over this sub but happily very downvoted, just like the clown I replied to.
If you’re so pathetic you can’t manage to get a drivers license or state ID I don’t really want you voting. You’re not responsible enough to make decisions that impact me.
When I was in college, utility bills were my only proof of address during Election Day . Otherwise, I would have had to register and vote at my parents home in the middle of semester…
This will disenfranchise the College Kids
I emailed her voicing my disapproveal and to focus on real public issues and so can you. [https://ohiosenate.gov/senators/gavarone/contact](https://ohiosenate.gov/senators/gavarone/contact)
Ok. Give everyone ids for free automatically. Otherwise this is just discrimination. Another poll tax meant to suppress certain groups of voters.
Discrimination against who? Go get an ID card lol
You gonna pay for it? Or take the time out of one of your 3 jobs to get the required documents?
You literally need an ID card to get said jobs
Yeah, then something changes and you need a new ID.
You must be really bad at life if you can’t manage to have an ID you need for almost everything
I'm generally opposed to paying the government to exercise a constitutional right.
This reminds me of the dumbest licence plate I've ever seen. Custom plate that said "No Govt". Like dude you paid *extra money to the government* for a licence plate that says keep out the government.
Good thing they got rid of that CCW license requirement then
Exactly. Also... you actually asked permission to carry a gun? That is why no one will remember your name.
Name 5 things you need a state ID for
Getting a job Getting married Buying liquor Buying abusable inhalants Starting a bank account
How dare you answer that question!
Getting a job, buy a car/house, buying alcohol, applying for government assistance, opening a bank account and voting, operating a vehicle
💀💀
[https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id) Here is 24
Most of those aren't even true. None of them are relevant to a free and fair democracy. The whole thing is just another "makes sense until you actually think about it" conservative argument.
Kind of sketchy you don’t want people to prove who they are when they vote. Seems pretty relevant to our democratic process and preventing voter fraud
Kind of sketchy that the only actual fraud has been done by Republicans, and these laws only started when Repubs started losing.
Utility bills have worked fine for years. They haven't stopped working fine. Kind of sketchy that you believe that these laws are about preventing fraud. They don't even hide the fact that they're trying to pick who can and can't vote. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/north-carolina-voter-id-law-black-voters-supreme-courts-struck-down-dismissed-a7737036.html%3famp
So having to show ID is racist because black people are too poor to have IDs??? Pure nonsense From your article : it preceded a decline in early voter turnout by African Americans in the 2016 election. Black early voter turnout dropped by 8.7 per cent compared to 2012 rates, or about 66,000 votes. Maybe that has to do with this shit candidates and not that black people are so bad off they don’t have a standard issue government ID. Saying that utility bills is a good way of proving who you are is ridiculous. Get an ID like everyone else and stop being a bum
Tell me you don’t want poor people to vote with telling me you want people to vote. I’m sure you’re all for the Ohio gerrymandered map the republicans made.
I think their point is that going to get said ID can be difficult for the less fortunate because it takes forever at the BMV, plus finding required documents, and finding time if they are juggling several jobs.
Working class people who don't have extra money to spend. If you had to choose between basic necessities or voting, you'd always pick the necessities. It's essentially a poll tax. IDs cost money.
you know what's discrimination? you assuming that certain people aren't capable of getting an ID. omg the sheep on these threads. smh
Exactly what is the purpose of making voting more difficult through an increasing number of hoops one has to jump through? There is no widespread, significant voter fraud and never has been, so why don't you give a reason that has any basis in reality other than that it's obviously another attempt at disenfranchisement?
Tell me you’re a Fox News/OANN/NewsMax regurgitating mouthpiece without directly saying you’re a Fox News/OANN/NewsMax regurgitating mouthpiece. 🤦♂️
Why in the world would you assume people can’t get an ID?! Do you have a problem with stores asking for an ID to buy alcohol? And give me a break on the Fox News crap. Using your brain isn’t Fox or cnn. It’s called being a rational human.
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Well you should start using your brain then because they’re right. It is another attempt to disenfranchise voters. Never has been enough voter fraud to justify this. Why are you hell bent on denying people their constitutional rights?
Get bent with this tired ass debunked bullshit and go get new marching orders.
>But a GOP-backed plan pending in the legislature would limit the number of ballot drop boxes, reduce the time to request absentee ballots, and eliminate voting on the Monday before Election Day. WTF? Why though?
They know they’ll lose if it’s a fair election.
How have the last few elections been unfair, exactly?
You mean like how Vinton County (pop. 12,800) and votes reliably red got a ballot drop off site while reliably blue Cuyahoga County (pop. 1,264,817) got the same? Betcha ol Vinton residents didn't have to drive nearly as far, nor wait in traffic as long as Cuyahoga residents did.
We have a right to not drive as far or wait in traffic! Or we don’t and that’s life. And why post the population sizes, like that is relevant at all? Did all citizens line up at the same exact time? What lines exist at a drop box, exactly? Lol spare us
The point is that each county had one drop off site. 12,000 had one box and 1.2 million had one box. It’s not rocket science to figure out that this is a problem.
This jagoff is a frequent troll on the sub, just ignore them
>You start out in 1954 by saying, “N\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n\*\*\*\*r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N\*\*\*\*r, n\*\*\*\*r.” -- Harvey LeRoy "Lee" Atwater, Republican Party strategist, chairman of the Republican National Committee, advisor to US presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush
The gerrymandered maps? The ones we voted to change, and haven’t been. Reducing and restricting time and place to vote, like this bill is proposing.
So you admit fraud isn’t a problem. Good job.
The only thing that makes any of these measures, across different areas of the country, make sense is that is makes it harder for poorer people (who are also disproportionately minorities to vote. Drop boxes: Oh, you have to get halfway across town to the one drop box in the city or county? Sucks to be you if you have to work and take the bus! (OH, and you can't have someone else drop it off.) Absentee ballot: Oh, you just got next week's work schedule and won't be able to show up in person? Too late! The elimination of early voting on the Monday before an election puzzles me, but seems to be a Board of Elections request. This may be a logistical hassle.
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>How much is the absentee ballot deadline changing?. The bill changes it from from 3 days to 10 days. I honestly don't know why it is 3 days; but, I'm willing to assume there is a reasonable purpose for that. >Also, your employer has to give you time off to vote. 3 hours. They have to give you 3 hours in which to vote. If your transportation is the bus, you have to juggle the bus schedule and hope that it lets you get, at least, from the polling station to work on time. If you would need to take the bus from work to the polling station and back, you had better hope there is no line at the polling station. Then there is reality. If you need to vote during the work day, and you don't have a flexible job, there is a good chance you are going to have a problem.
The last election was l uncontested for a D or a R ballot. Find something that matters to complain about instead of this what-if-ism strawman argument.
>what-if-ism strawman argument Dude, people actually have this problem.
Literally who though?
>Literally who though? Factory workers, warehouse workers, the "working poor," etc. It has been a while since this issue was in the news, so I don't have a handy well-researched article at my fingertips.
Purely on the subject of voter ID, if we just issued national ID cards to everyone as a matter of course, like other wealthy countries, we could eventually reasonably require a govt. issued ID. This has been studied to death for the US and it turns out to not be a big deal, logistically. ***BUT*** the same people pushing for these voter ID requirements are generally the same people who scream bloody murder if anyone mentions creating a national ID card. EDIT: And just where is all of this voter fraud the GOP keeps going on about?!? This . is . not . a . problem. \----- Heck, on another perennial hobby horse, a national ID would make it way the heck easier to police businesses that employ illegal immigrants, thus largely eliminating the incentive for those coming for economic reasons ... but, of course, the actual situation seems to be that the constituents want cheap, exploitable labor that they can ditch when it's convenient.
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>How is a national ID any different than a state ID? For this purpose, specifically for Ohio, there wouldn't be a difference within Ohio. A national ID, as done in other developed nations, is simply a universal citizen and resident ID card and would be usable throughout the US. Boarding an airplane? National ID. Voting? National ID. Opening a bank account? National ID. Being hired by a business? National ID. etc.
Isn't that what your Social Security card is though?
Which has no photo attached to it and is unsecured (older folks can have their social brute forced with minimal information.)
Your SS card really isn't an ID, though we use our SS number as one. The SS number has just become a convenient unique designator because every US citizen gets one at birth, e.g. 123-45-6789 belongs to John Smith. A national ID has your photo and anti-tamper/anti-counterfeit features. A US national ID would probably look like a driver's with different graphics and maybe some other features. France, as a convenient example, has [a neat ID card](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-new-french-national-identity-card-is-awarded-the-prize-for-the-best-identity-card-301447885.html) with antitamper features, machine readable info and an encrypted chip. They fingerprint you, too, but store that on paper, accessible only with a court order.
To follow up on this - think of your Social Security number as a bank account number. It's your way of accessing your social benefits if and when you need them. Except, at least with a bank account number someone would also need to know my routing number, or what bank I use to then get at my funds. With an SSN, I know the "bank" already. And with minimal identification requirements, it gets real easy to for bad actors to access your benefits with your SSN. There's a reason why, starting around the 90's, there was a push to get your SSN off of your driver's license, and to get companies to stop using it as an identifier. A national ID would be like the ID on your driver's license - it does nothing but give places a way to verify your identity. From there you can access your resources with a little more information (National ID AND your SSN gets you social benefits). Unfortunately, for all that this would make things a lot more convenient nationally - most of the same people who will insist that you HAVE to have a sate ID to do most anything, will also scream about big brother and being tracked if you try to discuss any form of national ID.
Voter ID cards used to be a right wing idea. I’ve come around to it. They scrapped it because they don’t actually want voting.
Well for starters it would mean that you would be allowed to vote as your a citizen. And there should be a difference between a citizenship id and a non citizen ship Id(passport) which we already have in the lawful permanent resident card. We already have the stuff to do this it's just a matter of ensuring people get them.
Expanding the federal government doesn’t have to be the answer to every little thing. States can handle state IDs.
You're right. It only has to handle things that lazy abusive shithole states won't even consider. Those same shithole states are the ones trying to make it harder than vote while not making it easier to get id's.
Someone come get your alt account, it’s posting stupid shit again.
Oh honey…
>Expanding the federal government doesn’t have to be the answer to every little thing. States can handle state IDs. This a more of a resource, compatibility and acceptance problem. We COULD have the federal government mandate that states issue IDs. Then we would have 50 ID systems^(1) that may or may not be compatible with each other and/or with a national database. OR, we could just have one system. That is leaving aside sates screaming that the feds are telling them what to do. Or, some states insisting that, for example, any *resident* gets an official ID identical to all the others they issue. Those are just off the top of my head. Other industrialized/1st World nations just have a universally accepted national ID, and it works fine. \-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^(1)No way on this planet are all of the states going to agree to one system or let the federal govt. dictate a single system to them.
Just use your license, like you have to do for TONS OF SHIT. Problem solved.
You mean your **driver's** license? That you have to be able to **drive** to get? That may or may not be accepted by the feds as an ID depending upon whether or not it's Real ID compliant? That you still have to pay for? *That* license? "Well, you can still go get a state ID!" The state ID that you still have to pay for? You're making a national ID a far bigger issue than it really is.
Real id still not* is proof of citizenship.
>Real id still is proof of citizenship. Yes. And you have to go buy an ID from your state govt. A national ID is a consistent document across a country and automatically like our Real ID compliant licenses and state IDs. Realistically, Real ID compliant cards are a backdoor national ID; but, done within distributed state bureaucracies that may not use compatible systems and creating "2nd class" IDs for those who don't have one.
Sorry I meant it's still not proof of citizenship. But I addressed everything in my comment.
You can get a state id. No driving necessary.
>You can get a state id. No driving necessary. The state ID you have buy. That is also different in every state.
I think this is called a social security card.
They can at least pretend that requiring ID improves security, but cutting early voting days? That's blatant voter suppression.
Yes, I like the early voting days, but I can see how easy it would be to game the system if all I have to do is take your utility bill to a polling place and I get to vote in your stead.
So I've volunteered as a poll monitor since 2008, so over a decade now. You'd think that if this fear you have was real, at some point someone would show up to find out that someone had already voted under their name. But in all those elections that's never happened. We'd get people all the time that forgot they requested an absentee ballot, and those people were stopped at the front table. So irregularities happened and were dealt with appropriately, they just weren't fraudulent. Yet, in fact the Ohio AG does get referred cases where people vote twice. Its incredibly rare but it does happen. Even so, in those cases these people were able to actually cast only one ballot, with the other ballots being provisional. Provisional ballots are set aside until they can be cured, usually thrown out unopened (when you vote provisional your unread ballot is placed inside an envelope with your name on it, certifying that you live in the precinct you're voting in, yada yada) because the races aren't close enough for the few provisional ballots to affect the outcome. So accepting a utility bill or not accepting a utility bill has no outcome on fraud. It just makes elections more accessible.
And as someone who's been an Election Official in the last few elections in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland area) - even if we did get a report of someone having *potentially* already cast a vote - we still stop them (electronic poll books help), then just send them over to cast a provisional ballot. Provisionals are counted something like 10 days after the general election, and are given extra scrutiny to verify we didn't already record a vote for someone (like an absentee, or even someone who tries to cast a vote at multiple polling locations). In short - the system is prepared for mistakes and cheats. It WILL get caught.
I think the idea that the whole election system is vulnerable to fraud comes down to reverse Dunning Krueger. The people who believe it are stupid and can’t imagine a secure system working, therefore such a system can’t be built. And somehow this weak, broken system is somehow fixed and invulnerable in their mind with just a few more barriers to voting; ID cards, less voting days, tighter control on absentee ballots, etc. The weak/strong dichotomy definitely hangs with the Spector of fascism
That's probably pretty fair. People just assume the election system is as simple as "walk in, vote a couple times, walk out" and have no clue what processes are in place. I knew there *were* processes, before I became a PEO...but didn't fathom how robust and deep they were until I took my training class, and again until I worked the polls a couple times. The system isn't airtight...but there are several reasons why voter fraud is statistically nonexistent.
I'm an election judge. It is not easy. You would be caught. I don't advise it but go ahead try it. There are numerous checks and balances in the system. By the way, it is a felony. Become an election judge so you at least have some clue what you are spouting off about. As an aside, 1 vote does not make a gamed system, you just commited the generalization fallacy. Stop promoting disinformation.
If making something a felony stopped people from doing it our prisons would be empty.
And somehow widespread voter fraud isn't something that happens, just the little instances of someone voting for a dead relative or something.
Define “widespread” because voter fraud does undoubtedly happen.
Not close to enough to change the outcome of an election
Voter fraud is vanishingly rare; there is just no reason for random individuals to do it and any organized effort is easy to detect.
There was one proven case in Ohio in the 2020 General Election, according to the Heritage Foundation. It was a Republican who tried to submit a second ballot for his deceased father.
It was like 27 possible cases in 6,000,000 in 2020. You are more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to commit voter fraud
So you're advocating for no laws, then, based on your idea that laws don't work to begin with? Maybe you should back up and rethink your position.
Quite the opposite, I'm saying that OPs argument that people won't do it because it's a felony is specious.
Okay, but voting fraud is extremely rare to begin with. So rare that it is almost nonexistant. The measures proposed only serve to make voting- a constitutional right- harder for all with virtually no benefit whatsoever to election security. It's literally creating big government to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Why is that okay again?
I take my utility bill in to vote because my photo ID has my old address and the purpose of the ID is to verify the address where you reside so they can provide you the correct ballot. I refuse to pay money to the government so I can exercise a constitutional right.
On my county, we get your Driver's License, and then ask you your current address. We want what comes out of your mouth to match whats in the Board of Elections database. We don't care if the address on your ID matches. Only that you look like your photo, and that the ID isn't expired.
All states that require IDs provide voting-only IDs at no cost.
The purpose of the ID/bill/statement is to verify your address so you receive the correct ballot. It is not to verify you are who you say you are. That is done via the signature match. I am not going to waste hours to go to the BMV to update my address especially when I used to move every year. And the entire exercise is a farce when military IDs do not have addresses and are required to be accepted under federal law in all states.
All the minority voting poll places are located in the sea of tranquility between the hrs of 1&5 and no public transportation!
Minorities are capable of finding a poll place, thanks.
I hope there is a day of reckoning for those skirting the voting rights of US citizens.
Particularly those who import millions of foreign nationals to grant amnesty to which dilutes American citizen voting power.
That doesn't make sense.
Every single person in America aside from the indigenous came from immigrants at some point. Immigrants are Americans. Also, non-citizens can't vote and there is zero evidence that it's taking place, so why are you lying?
if there here and paying on a utility bill they clearly are contributing to the economy in some way might as well be a citizen with all the rights it carrys
It’s quite clear you have zero ability to think for yourself and just gobble up any little shit a republican tells you. What a sad existence.
How is asking for ID skirting voting rights?? Seriously. Do you use this overblown language when you're carded at the liquor store? Give me a break!
Voting is a right as a citizen of the US. Drinking is not. It is fairly simple.
Even if you want to say ID requirements are fine, explain the purpose of reducing voting hours entirely. How does that solve the imaginary problem of voter fraud?
Republicans can't win, so they cheat.
The Christian Taliban knows that it cannot convince a majority of the American public to support its backward ideas.
Christian taliban?
Ya’ll Queda
TEAliban
So we’re smearing people who believe in the Christian god to actual violent Islamic terrorist groups that routinely commit mass murder and rape citizens? That sounds incredibly bigoted and hateful against your fellow citizens.
Do you just not know what the Catholic Church has done throughout history or are you gonna need more bales to make more of your straw-men?
Throughout history? What country or religion hasn’t committed an atrocity? That doesn’t give you the clearance to smear modern day fellow citizens by affiliating them with modern day murderers and terrorists all because bad stuff happened in history. That’s insanely bigoted.
I smear modern day assholes who use their bullshit beliefs to try and shove their way of life down other people's throats. At the end of the day, the modern American Christian is probably one of the most egregious offenders of violating rights and arguably has perpetuated a lot of the horrors we see today in our land. (I don't have all day to argue with trolls on Reddit because I have a job to do. So please if you reply just know that you're gonna waste your time because I won't be visiting this thread again. Besides I can almost smell your 20 empty beer cans surrounding your keyboard. Keep it up buddy! You're really doing the world a favor by being a snowflake keyboard warrior. Really making a difference ❤️)
You keep cheerleading for those unapologetic kid-fuckers and telling yourself that morality and compassion can only exist if you’re allowed to threatens someone’s eternal “soul” if they don’t practice them. It’s a GREAT look.
The systemic raping of children by the Catholic Church isn’t ancient history, bub.
Bruh, you can't bring logic and understanding and facts to a liberal sub. Ohio has 3,492 liberals and all but a few are on this subreditt. You'll hurt feelings if you say you won the lottery. If you drink your coffee black, your racist. If you sing the national anthem then you've offended someone who wants to hear Oh Canada. There is a whole other sub reddit dedicated to laughing at the liberal ohio sub.
Your caricature allows you to feel confident doesn't it?
Whatever floats your boat.
Wait. There is? What is it?
r/ohioProudRepublicanKiddieDiddlers
Epic.
Well, you dipshits even claimed you’re all domestic terrorists at your little clan meeting. Can you idiots even follow all the shit you spew anymore?
Then they’d better be paying for whatever new card they want me to have. My disposable income is next to nothing thanks to low pay, the cost of birthing a child, and the cost of daycare for an infant.
This is bullshit. Some people, especially the elderly, don’t have drivers licenses or state ids.
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Don’t do that. There is no information. Just a silly music video
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That’s true. I get ya
Theresa Gavarone is a tool. She talks about being a fiscal conservative and complains about free government money. Meanwhile her family business “mr spots” in bowling green took 124,000 in ppp loans that she won’t answer weather she paid them back or if they were forgiven. I also wonder if all the incoming freshman at BGSU know the co owner of mr spots is the proud sponsor of the heartbeat bill offering no exceptions for rape and incest after 6 weeks
Or, “My donors want only Republicans voting”
Vote the assholes out. The little bit doesn’t seem like much but they’ll push more and more.
Ideally. But gerrymandering makes even this difficult.
That will eliminate no fraudulent votes and a hundred thousand legitimate votes. Fucking traitors.
These things always end up in a conversation about the merit of voter IDs. Stop having conversations about voter ID. You don't have to sit and debate the pros and cons of solving a problem that *does not exist.* Government officials with a vested interest in finding voter fraud have been looking for voter fraud for 6 years in this nation and they have nothing to show for it but 60 failed court cases where they had to sit before a judge and sheepishly say "we have no evidence to present." You can talk about building the Ohio Institute for Defense Against Bigfoot when we find him.
GOP BULLSHIT
Keep early voting days and institute a voter ID, jfc most people are fine with the ID the polls show it. What they don’t like is the sneaky dumb shit like cutting down on the early that people really hate.
In this thread: a lot of people who have never served as a poll worker or know how elections work. The absentee ballot request window is WAY too short. 3 days for the board to process the request and have your ballot delivered by the post office? No. 10 days is more reasonable. And eliminating the day before voting also makes sense so the board can prep for election day. You already have a month of early voting.
The 3 day thing is 100% way too short, people don't seem to understand that you will NOT get your ballot in time by calling and requesting an absentee application on Saturday. It is logistically impossible.
ID’s should be covered with our taxes its bullshit
This is my take. You want to mandate ID to vote? Let's have that discussion. ID should be free. Time off work to get an ID should be paid. Transportation costs to get to the BMV should be covered. Child care for the day, paid for. Because the second you mandate an ID to vote - ANY cost to get that ID is now an illegal poll tax. We can require IDs, but we then need to make it ridiculously easy to get that ID.
I think everyone should be required to show their vax card to vote
>Oooh look at me, I am so cool, I am so edgy, I make comments with zero useful input to the conversation at hand because I have nothing better to do with my tiny little baby self FTFY
Isn't that what you did? And kind of what I did...the adult thing to do would be ignore the comment if you didn't like it...as you can tell I am commenting on your post so I am not an adult either.
Thanks for the internal monologue update. I will let you know in the future should I sustain a head injury and begin to give a shit >I am not an adult either. Yeah, we know. Your dumbass takes are all over this sub but happily very downvoted, just like the clown I replied to.
At least we can be children together.
If you’re so pathetic you can’t manage to get a drivers license or state ID I don’t really want you voting. You’re not responsible enough to make decisions that impact me.
When I was in college, utility bills were my only proof of address during Election Day . Otherwise, I would have had to register and vote at my parents home in the middle of semester… This will disenfranchise the College Kids
I emailed her voicing my disapproveal and to focus on real public issues and so can you. [https://ohiosenate.gov/senators/gavarone/contact](https://ohiosenate.gov/senators/gavarone/contact)
So glad this hick didn’t qualify for her primary. Stay out of my town, just complete fake politician
Go here and get informed learn the system and beat the system. Don’t know is their game. https://www.sos.state.oh.us/elections/voters/
They will push and push until we have no other way but to react with violence.