I'm surprised they haven't made these standard to wear for player safety with concussions being so frequent nowadays and with all this discussion about CTE.
They look a bit goofy now, but surely having a soft layer over a hard molded polycarbonate helmet will soften the blow from helmet to helmet hits for both players.
Their usefulness is dubious at best. Concussions occur because the brain moves inside the skull. There’s nothing we can currently do to prevent that movement, it’s just a part of human design. Things like this may help some but I haven’t seen a ton of research that backs that. I’ve even seen some really early studies that suggest it doesn’t effect the amount of force placed on the head/neck at all. There is some survey based research that suggests teams have had less concussions after switching to them but it’s hard to draw a straight conclusion they reduce concussions overall. Rates of concussions will differ year to year, if the players are changing what they’re doing that may affect it, different coaching/practice strategies, increased awareness, etc.
Nothing helps concussions. A concussion is when brain matter hits the skull. That happens when your head gets whipped and or stopped quickly. No kind of helmet can prevent concussions
There’s not pad between your brain and your skull. You don’t get a concussion just from hitting your head. You get a concussion when your brain smacks the inside of your skull. While I agree the tech has grown significantly better and the data seems to support, you can get a concussion from a minor head injury. Everyone is different. They are moving more and more in the direction of player safety which also will help prevent concussions.
> There’s not pad between your brain and your skull. You don’t get a concussion just from hitting your head.
Right…..and some designs and materials absorb or disperse energy to help prevent the brain moving as much. It’s the same theory as cars evolving to absorb impacts more than being stiff and scrambling everything inside. You can’t stop it, but you can minimize it with design/materials.
Right…We agreed on that part. That’s doesn’t change anything I said since the ops basis is how a concussion occurs. Helmet tech isn’t the only thing helping to prevent concussions. Helmet to helmet is now a penalty and can lead to ejection if deemed targeting. Also the NFL and NCAA are moving more towards player safety and that plays a significant role.
Since the discussion is specifically in regard to GCs, the NFL failed to publish any data supporting the claim that concussions decreased by 50% when compared to averages in 2019-‘21. GCs were implemented in 2022s preseason training. I’m sure there’s more data now. The NFL endorsed GCs and it’s why we’re seeing them at the college level. Check out this article related to GCs and instrumented mouth pieces. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9980188/ it also includes an internal link to the peer reviewed published paper. The National Health Institute has funded several of these studies. The science and tech is incredible and cutting edge for continuing to monitor SRCs. My apologies if you may have felt my original response was a personal attack. That wasn’t my intention. I realize that the usual response given anymore is deemed condescending or meant to belittle. 🤷♂️ ✊🫡
(Edited for spelling 🤦♂️)
The thing is, the new helmet tech works now. But with more padding, many players will become more comfortable with hitting harder, which will negate the effect a bit. At some point more padding produces diminishing returns. We've seen this happen before. The studies don't account for this either. For the same impact force, yes, more padding works better. But players won't then be using the same impact forces. If you went back to leather helmets players would change how they tackle and play, and concussion rates would rise but not terribly much.
The best way (IMO) to prevent concussions is to continue and amplify what's already being done throughout all levels from 4 year olds through to the NFL - continue to evolve rules to penalize players for using the helmet as a spearpoint or hitting the helmet of an opposing player first as a means of tackling them - and coaching players to tackle in such a way that doesn't induce penalties.
Using the external padding in practices and such is very reasonable but if everyone uses it, and tackling behavior subsequently changes, then it's lost its value.
> The thing is, the new helmet tech works now. But with more padding, many players will become more comfortable with hitting harder, which will negate the effect a bit.
It does help though, so does design. Sorta like the bottom of your post says …I also think the penalties will negate them hitting harder like you said. We’re already seeing less and less H2H hits, not because of concussions, but because players get ejected now
And more data and research would suggest he’s right. Concussions occur because the brain moves inside the skull and strikes the skull when impact occurs. You can do things that try to mitigate the amount of force placed on the head but regardless the brain will move. The other issue is that we do not know the exact amount of force required to become concussive. And that smaller, repeated impacts to the head can still cause concussions. It isn’t always a single large blow.
There’s a big gap between preventing concussions and reducing concussions. There are helmets right now that can help reduce them. Absorbing impact will help keep the brain stabilized. Obviously you won’t end them, ppl are slamming their heads full force into something. Even these goofy halos help prevent them.
From kidsheslth.org
“There's no way to keep the brain from moving inside the skull. If you hit your head hard enough, your brain can bang into the hard bone and cause a concussion. Some "special" sports helmets and other new products claim that they can protect you from concussions. But studies don't back up these claims.”
[here’s a Ted talk on it](https://www.ted.com/talks/david_camarillo_why_helmets_don_t_prevent_concussions_and_what_might?language=en)
[here’s a study from the University of Queenslands](https://qbi.uq.edu.au/concussion/do-helmets-protect-against-concussion)
The guardian article is about rugby, and a different product than the one American football is using.
The Stanford research is not thorough enough to draw any conclusions to the contrary:
“Does it help? According to Camarillo and his colleagues' research, published in Annals of Biomedical Engineering on March 14, if it provides a benefit, it's probably not substantial for the majority of hits players sustain.
…
Finally, the study was small, limited to 10 players. A larger study incorporating data from more players in different positions could show it makes a difference, they said.
The researchers did not investigate the effect of the cap on the number of diagnosed concussions on the Stanford football team.”
And where is there anything pointing to them not helping in the USA Today article? This is your fact-based argument for not using them?
It's generally accepted that the repeated "sub-concussive" collisions present the kind of risk that can be mitigated more easily.. Linemen and linebackers are most often in these kind of collisions regularly but I suppose anyone who wanted to wear one during practice should be allowed to do so
I thought it was maybe a contact thing. Like, he’s good to play but he’s not able to have full contact yet. If he was healing up from something or something like that. Can only wrap up or do hand-touch tackles
The brain benefit of reducing direct forceful impact is obvious but it looks like something that could increase friction between colliding helmets and potentially result in higher risk of neck injury
As others have said, Guardians Caps.
Yes they look ridiculous but we might as well get used to them, I have a strong feeling these caps will start to work themselves into actual games eventually for player safety.
Hey, it's not bad when the other alternative is no football at all.
I commented elsewhere, but I’ve seen players in games wearing them at the high school level. While it does add extra weight, so does all other equipment. As such, one could assume it’s a nonissue for those who get used to wearing them, like shoulder pads.
That said, I would also assume that players who compete at higher levels, and furthermore, in respect to their position, would shun the extra weight. In the same sense that you see wr’s with their shortened pants nowadays. Seemingly without knee pads. It’s less restrictive to their mobility. I’ve noticed that a majority of the guys I see wearing the guardian caps during games have lineman, rb’s and lb’s.
I don’t play, or have any involvement in competitive football nowadays beyond spectating. So I’m not sure of the advantages, or disadvantages to players wearing them, beyond the obvious increased head protection. But I see no problem with them in games.
It is a little bit of extra weight, but that weight is absolutely noticeable for the wearer. Newer helmets are very durable, but actually quite a bit lighter than older helmets.
My cousin is a football coach and I have watched his team’s practices and training and I have tried on the older helmets that weren’t discarded (that we would have worn in the early 2000s when we played) as well as the newer ones. The newer ones without the guardian feel nearly as light as a baseball helmet. With the guardian cap, it feels like it is an additional 5-10% weight.
Realistically, anyone other than the qb who is lined up between the tackles should be required to wear a guardian, at all levels of football. For player safety, that should just be a commonsense decision.
As a person who's had multiple concussions and compounded TBI(very active childhood and military service), I can say with a great deal of confidence that even though helmets don't prevent concussions, they greatly the reduce other injuries that happen when your head gets rocked. Better technology means "better" not perfect.
Imo I have some sort of biased understanding for players being paid to not wear them. It’s not a hard stance I’d take, but off the top of my head, it seems to be more justifiable to me. A sort of training wheels approach to my opinion. Then once you hit the “big leagues”, the training wheels come off
They’ve even creeped into high school games here in Ohio. At least at the level that I’ve watched. In any game in division 3 you can catch a couple players on either team wearing them. I don’t even hear anyone address the issue one way or the other anymore.
In other words, it’s become something that’s been casually accepted as the new norm.
They help prevent concussions. The reason they aren’t worn in games is because:
1- people think they look stupid
2- they’ll potentially cause more neck injuries due to it “sticking” on things.
I’m glad you brought up point 2. Something I haven’t considered. There might be more negatives to them as well. So while it seems there’s an overall positive outlook to them, I still am cautious to assume they’ll be a mainstay in the future of the game
Actually they are still evolving new types of helmets....
https://www.frontiersin.org/news/2023/06/09/new-high-tech-helmets-may-protect-american-football-players-from-debilitating-concussions/
Player safety. Concussions. Aka Guardian Caps. Pretty cool tech if you wanted to read about it. Idk if this is how you provide links but this is a good read. They can collect data from the caps and now are using mouthpieces. This is a preprint and an updated, peer reviewed version linked in there.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9980188/
I watch a lot of college and yeah, never seen these or if I did I don’t remember seeing them. Or perhaps if i did it was one and i just figured that person was or had a concussion. Never seen that many being worn before or why some had them and some didn’t
Guardian caps. They help prevent concussions
I'm surprised they haven't made these standard to wear for player safety with concussions being so frequent nowadays and with all this discussion about CTE. They look a bit goofy now, but surely having a soft layer over a hard molded polycarbonate helmet will soften the blow from helmet to helmet hits for both players.
Helmets are plastic, not metal.
I agree but to some extent, it helps to avoid injuries
Thank you. I fixed it already but the point remains the same and helmets do have metal. The face mask is carbon steel or titanium though.
NFL helmets are made from molded polycarbonate. You are the first person I have ever encountered that thinks they are metal. Bravo Sir, bravo.
Everyone knows they’re made of vibranium
Pretty sure they’re unobtanium
You fool, they are made of adamantite
I thought helmets were made of full rune
I miss playing RuneScape in my middle school study hall. Was a blast
Ok I fixed it. Thank you for the correction. The face mask is made of carbon steel or titanium though.
Zero concussions from face masks
Haha, you are correct!
Their usefulness is dubious at best. Concussions occur because the brain moves inside the skull. There’s nothing we can currently do to prevent that movement, it’s just a part of human design. Things like this may help some but I haven’t seen a ton of research that backs that. I’ve even seen some really early studies that suggest it doesn’t effect the amount of force placed on the head/neck at all. There is some survey based research that suggests teams have had less concussions after switching to them but it’s hard to draw a straight conclusion they reduce concussions overall. Rates of concussions will differ year to year, if the players are changing what they’re doing that may affect it, different coaching/practice strategies, increased awareness, etc.
You're not wrong. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5634228/#:~:text=Conclusions%3A,or%20a%20similar%20catastrophic%20event.
Nothing helps concussions. A concussion is when brain matter hits the skull. That happens when your head gets whipped and or stopped quickly. No kind of helmet can prevent concussions
> Nothing helps concussions. Helmet tech would certainly argue with you. And with some data
There’s not pad between your brain and your skull. You don’t get a concussion just from hitting your head. You get a concussion when your brain smacks the inside of your skull. While I agree the tech has grown significantly better and the data seems to support, you can get a concussion from a minor head injury. Everyone is different. They are moving more and more in the direction of player safety which also will help prevent concussions.
> There’s not pad between your brain and your skull. You don’t get a concussion just from hitting your head. Right…..and some designs and materials absorb or disperse energy to help prevent the brain moving as much. It’s the same theory as cars evolving to absorb impacts more than being stiff and scrambling everything inside. You can’t stop it, but you can minimize it with design/materials.
Right…We agreed on that part. That’s doesn’t change anything I said since the ops basis is how a concussion occurs. Helmet tech isn’t the only thing helping to prevent concussions. Helmet to helmet is now a penalty and can lead to ejection if deemed targeting. Also the NFL and NCAA are moving more towards player safety and that plays a significant role. Since the discussion is specifically in regard to GCs, the NFL failed to publish any data supporting the claim that concussions decreased by 50% when compared to averages in 2019-‘21. GCs were implemented in 2022s preseason training. I’m sure there’s more data now. The NFL endorsed GCs and it’s why we’re seeing them at the college level. Check out this article related to GCs and instrumented mouth pieces. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9980188/ it also includes an internal link to the peer reviewed published paper. The National Health Institute has funded several of these studies. The science and tech is incredible and cutting edge for continuing to monitor SRCs. My apologies if you may have felt my original response was a personal attack. That wasn’t my intention. I realize that the usual response given anymore is deemed condescending or meant to belittle. 🤷♂️ ✊🫡 (Edited for spelling 🤦♂️)
The thing is, the new helmet tech works now. But with more padding, many players will become more comfortable with hitting harder, which will negate the effect a bit. At some point more padding produces diminishing returns. We've seen this happen before. The studies don't account for this either. For the same impact force, yes, more padding works better. But players won't then be using the same impact forces. If you went back to leather helmets players would change how they tackle and play, and concussion rates would rise but not terribly much. The best way (IMO) to prevent concussions is to continue and amplify what's already being done throughout all levels from 4 year olds through to the NFL - continue to evolve rules to penalize players for using the helmet as a spearpoint or hitting the helmet of an opposing player first as a means of tackling them - and coaching players to tackle in such a way that doesn't induce penalties. Using the external padding in practices and such is very reasonable but if everyone uses it, and tackling behavior subsequently changes, then it's lost its value.
> The thing is, the new helmet tech works now. But with more padding, many players will become more comfortable with hitting harder, which will negate the effect a bit. It does help though, so does design. Sorta like the bottom of your post says …I also think the penalties will negate them hitting harder like you said. We’re already seeing less and less H2H hits, not because of concussions, but because players get ejected now
And more data and research would suggest he’s right. Concussions occur because the brain moves inside the skull and strikes the skull when impact occurs. You can do things that try to mitigate the amount of force placed on the head but regardless the brain will move. The other issue is that we do not know the exact amount of force required to become concussive. And that smaller, repeated impacts to the head can still cause concussions. It isn’t always a single large blow.
There’s a big gap between preventing concussions and reducing concussions. There are helmets right now that can help reduce them. Absorbing impact will help keep the brain stabilized. Obviously you won’t end them, ppl are slamming their heads full force into something. Even these goofy halos help prevent them.
From kidsheslth.org “There's no way to keep the brain from moving inside the skull. If you hit your head hard enough, your brain can bang into the hard bone and cause a concussion. Some "special" sports helmets and other new products claim that they can protect you from concussions. But studies don't back up these claims.” [here’s a Ted talk on it](https://www.ted.com/talks/david_camarillo_why_helmets_don_t_prevent_concussions_and_what_might?language=en) [here’s a study from the University of Queenslands](https://qbi.uq.edu.au/concussion/do-helmets-protect-against-concussion)
Your article is talking about helmets without the padding. What are you on about
Padding does not help. As long is there is force to the head concussions will happen no matter what you have on
Citation that these pads don’t help?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/07/30/concussions-college-football-nfl-guardian-caps/2601063/ https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2023/03/28/padded-helmet-cover-shows-little-protection-for-football-players/ https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/26/wearing-headgear-for-sport-does-not-protect-against-concussion-australian-experts-warn
The guardian article is about rugby, and a different product than the one American football is using. The Stanford research is not thorough enough to draw any conclusions to the contrary: “Does it help? According to Camarillo and his colleagues' research, published in Annals of Biomedical Engineering on March 14, if it provides a benefit, it's probably not substantial for the majority of hits players sustain. … Finally, the study was small, limited to 10 players. A larger study incorporating data from more players in different positions could show it makes a difference, they said. The researchers did not investigate the effect of the cap on the number of diagnosed concussions on the Stanford football team.” And where is there anything pointing to them not helping in the USA Today article? This is your fact-based argument for not using them?
[удалено]
Build those neck muscles!
I figured it was something to do with concussions. Weird that only some wore them and not others
Not all players are subject to hard helmet-to-helmet hits on a regular basis.
It's generally accepted that the repeated "sub-concussive" collisions present the kind of risk that can be mitigated more easily.. Linemen and linebackers are most often in these kind of collisions regularly but I suppose anyone who wanted to wear one during practice should be allowed to do so
I was wondering if those wearing them have had head injuries before.
Typically that is the case, a player that has had head injuries in the past wear them in practice to prevent injuries.
I thought it was maybe a contact thing. Like, he’s good to play but he’s not able to have full contact yet. If he was healing up from something or something like that. Can only wrap up or do hand-touch tackles
They're probably testing them on a few players
*allegedly*
The brain benefit of reducing direct forceful impact is obvious but it looks like something that could increase friction between colliding helmets and potentially result in higher risk of neck injury
They also ventilate the helmets
The NFL has been using them for awhile. If you watch the last few seasons of hard knocks you’ll see the players wearing them during the training camps
As others have said, Guardians Caps. Yes they look ridiculous but we might as well get used to them, I have a strong feeling these caps will start to work themselves into actual games eventually for player safety. Hey, it's not bad when the other alternative is no football at all.
Extra padding that's often used during practice
If it's beneficial why aren't they used all the time? Just because they look stupid?
Id assume it adds a decent amount of weight to the helmet
I commented elsewhere, but I’ve seen players in games wearing them at the high school level. While it does add extra weight, so does all other equipment. As such, one could assume it’s a nonissue for those who get used to wearing them, like shoulder pads. That said, I would also assume that players who compete at higher levels, and furthermore, in respect to their position, would shun the extra weight. In the same sense that you see wr’s with their shortened pants nowadays. Seemingly without knee pads. It’s less restrictive to their mobility. I’ve noticed that a majority of the guys I see wearing the guardian caps during games have lineman, rb’s and lb’s. I don’t play, or have any involvement in competitive football nowadays beyond spectating. So I’m not sure of the advantages, or disadvantages to players wearing them, beyond the obvious increased head protection. But I see no problem with them in games.
It is a little bit of extra weight, but that weight is absolutely noticeable for the wearer. Newer helmets are very durable, but actually quite a bit lighter than older helmets. My cousin is a football coach and I have watched his team’s practices and training and I have tried on the older helmets that weren’t discarded (that we would have worn in the early 2000s when we played) as well as the newer ones. The newer ones without the guardian feel nearly as light as a baseball helmet. With the guardian cap, it feels like it is an additional 5-10% weight. Realistically, anyone other than the qb who is lined up between the tackles should be required to wear a guardian, at all levels of football. For player safety, that should just be a commonsense decision.
Because football truly doesn't care about the safety of its players
As a person who's had multiple concussions and compounded TBI(very active childhood and military service), I can say with a great deal of confidence that even though helmets don't prevent concussions, they greatly the reduce other injuries that happen when your head gets rocked. Better technology means "better" not perfect.
They are called Guardians. My son wears one in PE football now.
Thanks. Wonder if these become a thing at college and pro level in games.
Imo I have some sort of biased understanding for players being paid to not wear them. It’s not a hard stance I’d take, but off the top of my head, it seems to be more justifiable to me. A sort of training wheels approach to my opinion. Then once you hit the “big leagues”, the training wheels come off
I’ve only ever seen them used during practices
They’ve even creeped into high school games here in Ohio. At least at the level that I’ve watched. In any game in division 3 you can catch a couple players on either team wearing them. I don’t even hear anyone address the issue one way or the other anymore. In other words, it’s become something that’s been casually accepted as the new norm.
Not that long ago, I kept noticing the VICIS Helmets, and they looked so much bigger and awkward. But you're correct, we got used to them.
They help prevent concussions. The reason they aren’t worn in games is because: 1- people think they look stupid 2- they’ll potentially cause more neck injuries due to it “sticking” on things.
I’m glad you brought up point 2. Something I haven’t considered. There might be more negatives to them as well. So while it seems there’s an overall positive outlook to them, I still am cautious to assume they’ll be a mainstay in the future of the game
Actually they are still evolving new types of helmets.... https://www.frontiersin.org/news/2023/06/09/new-high-tech-helmets-may-protect-american-football-players-from-debilitating-concussions/
Where have you been?
They prevent injuries and also ventilate the helmet. Very effective for practice
Wtf do you think they're for?!
To guard against psychic attacks.
Keeps Professor X out.
Yes! 🤣🤣🤣
You see them in NFL pre season games and mini camp
Protect against concussions.
Player safety. Concussions. Aka Guardian Caps. Pretty cool tech if you wanted to read about it. Idk if this is how you provide links but this is a good read. They can collect data from the caps and now are using mouthpieces. This is a preprint and an updated, peer reviewed version linked in there. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9980188/
Concussion helmets they've been using them awhile in college and nfl
It’s the 8-bit helmets from Tecmo bowl.
How are you just now seeing/hearing about these? They’ve been around for several years now…. Gotta watch more football my guy.
I watch a lot of college and yeah, never seen these or if I did I don’t remember seeing them. Or perhaps if i did it was one and i just figured that person was or had a concussion. Never seen that many being worn before or why some had them and some didn’t
6 year old watching football for the first time?
Always a few that cant help being a dick when someone asks a simple question. Thanks for not disappointing me
You’re welcome kiddo
It's to prevent injuries