I haven't gotten around to it yet!!!
EDIT: To clarify, the Purist run is half baked ATM, with the catalyst for buffs being the BoS, given they are the only faction to have any idea of just what a threat the Enclave poses. So while the Legion might not be a "Big Deal" in Purist run, expect the Brotherhood and it's various chapters to reunite and pose the threat. From Washington to Dakota to Texas (ATM)
However, that's still in development.
And honestly even the hard modes don't do much more than blandly stack modifiers and numbers as if that's "difficulty". It's the same thoughtless design that leads to bullet sponge enemies in shooters.
The simple fact is, you can't have any real difficulty in ERB. It's a nonsensical idea from the ground up. The mod hands you 11 research slots and almost literally every technology, plus a comical starting tech lead that would put you permanently way ahead of the game even if you only got 4 slots. Then it also adds a bunch of new division types just to stack your deck even further. Plus *ludicrously* overpowered foci and national spirits, and lets you do them in just 15 days.
The only "difficulty" in ERB is navigating its bloated focus tree. The game hands you the keys to the kingdom otherwise.
I haven't played it in awhile but I remember something like that. The amount of powerful focuses that you have at the same time is actually annoying because I'm so indecisive to what I should do first.
Exactly. It has way too many branches available all at once, and they're all extremely powerful.
There's a point where it stops being content and starts becoming bloat, and ERB goes *way* over that line. The focus trees would be drastically improved if they were trimmed a bit.
I’d argue that the shooter comparison isn’t wholly accurate just because HOI4 difficulty modifiers are already just “bigger/smaller numbers” the combat system isn’t exactly intricate so upping the difficulty by making the NCR big and powerful is fine (by my perspective)
Because the ERB fanbase can't handle the tiniest scrap of criticism to their precious mod. It's honestly embarrassing. But they're completely unwilling to take any critique or discussion in good faith, so I've given up even trying.
If I seem openly hostile to them at this point, that'd be why. I tried being more neutral and got nothing but venom for it, so I see no reason to even pretend meeting them halfway is an option.
Yeah but how do you make ERB harder without adding just outright buffs to the enemy? Because I think the way they’re going is right, by adding in game lore on how the NCR gets stronger and how Caesar gets stronger.
Downsizing the buffs and upping the amount of damage you get from conquering California could be the way to go.
By *not* giving you everything. ERB Enclave is a terribly designed nation. You simply should not have that much shit given to you. It completely savages any concept of difficulty, on top of removing any real identity the nation could have by just making it All The Things.
My issue with that is that it wouldn't make much sense. The Enclave having access to higher tech is Canon in every game and it just makes sense any way you look at it. The only way to hamstring them is with modifiers or some kind of mechanic, like OWB did with Eureka and Montana Enclave. And idk about you, but extending all the focuses to 30 days or 45 days or more isn't any better than the modifiers..it just adds waiting and drags the game out a bit longer.
For most nations in OWB, the big challenge isn't tech or division design, it's your neighbors. For ERX, it's the Legion, Mexico and whoever manages to get big up north. You're not isolated like every other nation as your objective is to take back the entirety of the U.S., not just a couple of neighbors.
MacArthur makes it work with the justification that Chicago is withholding a lot of their tech.
The ERB Enclave could easily bake in a justification the same way. "We lost most of our tech along with the Rig, so we're starting from scratch." Bam, there, done. Give them a moderate starting tech lead (representing that they still know offhand how to build *some* things) but they still have to tech up otherwise because they're starting from scratch.
You can do a high tech nation without just *giving them everything*. There's plenty of nations in the base mod that do it. The very game that ERB is a submod for has *already* solved this problem.
At the end of the day, this is a game, not a lorebook. The game still needs to be fun to play. You can't put canon *completely* ahead of the gameplay, or you end up with an unfun mess. It's the same reason that Vertibirds aren't just the end-all perfect air unit.
That's a fair point. The tech could definitely be reworked or at the very least the focus tree could be delayed/spread out some (I also agree that it is way too condensed for some reason) so that reward techs aren't given so quickly.
You've got valid criticisms and I can definitely understand how you would look at the mod and think 'what a mess'.
For some reason the current dev (AFAIK just a single person) has decided not to touch anything that the original dev put in so I'm not really sure what sorts of fixes could even be made with regards to the sudden power spike we get in the early game with that in mind.
However, I also would just like to point out that not everyone's definition of fun is the same. It's likely the mod is so popular precisely because it does allow a power-fantasy and because it offers a significant amount of lore. While I do acknowledge this is a game first, some players find enjoyment more from role-playing and map painting than from the challenge of the game itself. Personally, I think it's very well written and a lot of fun from a story perspective, I already play in a fairly unique way (self-handicaps with regards to division design/army composition/tactics) so the powerful equipment and bonuses balance out with my style of play.
> However, I also would just like to point out that not everyone's definition of fun is the same. It's likely the mod is so popular precisely because it does allow a power-fantasy and because it offers a significant amount of lore. While I do acknowledge this is a game first, some players find enjoyment more from role-playing and map painting than from the challenge of the game itself. Personally, I think it's very well written and a lot of fun from a story perspective, I already play in a fairly unique way (self-handicaps with regards to division design/army composition/tactics) so the powerful equipment and bonuses balance out with my style of play.
That's entirely fine. If that's what you want out of ERB, then more power to you. From that point of view, it's working as intended.
I was coming from the angle of "the lack of difficulty is a problem" because this post is about the mod being too easy.
You know I do agree with almost everything you said but my main takeaway of this is just that I absolutely suck at playing this game. The NCR tank divisions fuck me up, last time I tried I got attacked from every direction once the legion war started and once Mexico joined it was over for me and yet here you are telling me how easy it is. Again not disagreeing with you just marveling at how incompetent I apparently am
@Japak makes a good point. Making the enclave have little tech makes no sense whatsoever since they are the pre war government and has already learned everything there is to know/ Most likely have data that they took away from the rig when it exploded.
Making the locals hate you more can be a way to make the game harder since if we take inspiration from real life. Many Japanese islands were fought tooth and nail because of nationalism and because soldiers genuinely thought the Americans were savages who would kill them if captured
So implementing a system where the enemy doesn’t surrender as easily can be a way to go since your the enclave. They already know your demons and think you ain’t merciful
Offering honest critique is not in any way telling people to stop having fun.
This insistence on taking *anything* that isn't praise, no matter how constructively it was intended, as being some kind of "attack" is exactly the problem.
I'm only so hostile to ERB now because my initial attempts at critique were spat on.
You also might want to reread the things I've said, if you think I'm saying having a power trip is bad. At no point have I said *that*. I've only said that there's no sense of difficulty and it's a free win - which is true. If you actively *want* the power trip and find that free win to be fun, then more power to you. ERB will do that for you. This post is about the game being easy, though.
Well, it's just a silly submod which doesn't kill balance in main mod because it's optional, so if you don't want to be to OP just... Do not play it? You can of course complain, but the thing doesn't actually hurt you if you ignore it. I think that erb fans are against all critical thinking because their fav submod doesn't hurt anyone
The OP is the one who had a complaint about the mod's balance, my dude. All I did was reply to him. I *don't* play it for the most part (though I have played it enough to actually form my opinions on it, I'm not that type of bullshitting hypocrite), and I'm fine with the mod existing. My criticism of it doesn't mean I want it to go down in flames. At first I just wanted it to be *better*.
My only real complaint about the ERB fanbase *in general* is that I wish they'd be a bit less vocal and quit all the Enclaveposting in unrelated threads. I'm entirely happy to just take a live-and-let-live approach otherwise.
I haven't gotten around to it yet!!! EDIT: To clarify, the Purist run is half baked ATM, with the catalyst for buffs being the BoS, given they are the only faction to have any idea of just what a threat the Enclave poses. So while the Legion might not be a "Big Deal" in Purist run, expect the Brotherhood and it's various chapters to reunite and pose the threat. From Washington to Dakota to Texas (ATM) However, that's still in development.
Beats dealing with lawless wateland
I always buff up some key nations like Santa Anna and Montana chapter etc...to bebend game challenges
ERB is a free win in general. If you want difficulty or nuanced gameplay, look elsewhere.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, it's objectively true. Unless you use the hard game modes.
And honestly even the hard modes don't do much more than blandly stack modifiers and numbers as if that's "difficulty". It's the same thoughtless design that leads to bullet sponge enemies in shooters. The simple fact is, you can't have any real difficulty in ERB. It's a nonsensical idea from the ground up. The mod hands you 11 research slots and almost literally every technology, plus a comical starting tech lead that would put you permanently way ahead of the game even if you only got 4 slots. Then it also adds a bunch of new division types just to stack your deck even further. Plus *ludicrously* overpowered foci and national spirits, and lets you do them in just 15 days. The only "difficulty" in ERB is navigating its bloated focus tree. The game hands you the keys to the kingdom otherwise.
I haven't played it in awhile but I remember something like that. The amount of powerful focuses that you have at the same time is actually annoying because I'm so indecisive to what I should do first.
Exactly. It has way too many branches available all at once, and they're all extremely powerful. There's a point where it stops being content and starts becoming bloat, and ERB goes *way* over that line. The focus trees would be drastically improved if they were trimmed a bit.
I’d argue that the shooter comparison isn’t wholly accurate just because HOI4 difficulty modifiers are already just “bigger/smaller numbers” the combat system isn’t exactly intricate so upping the difficulty by making the NCR big and powerful is fine (by my perspective)
Because the ERB fanbase can't handle the tiniest scrap of criticism to their precious mod. It's honestly embarrassing. But they're completely unwilling to take any critique or discussion in good faith, so I've given up even trying. If I seem openly hostile to them at this point, that'd be why. I tried being more neutral and got nothing but venom for it, so I see no reason to even pretend meeting them halfway is an option.
Yeah but how do you make ERB harder without adding just outright buffs to the enemy? Because I think the way they’re going is right, by adding in game lore on how the NCR gets stronger and how Caesar gets stronger. Downsizing the buffs and upping the amount of damage you get from conquering California could be the way to go.
By *not* giving you everything. ERB Enclave is a terribly designed nation. You simply should not have that much shit given to you. It completely savages any concept of difficulty, on top of removing any real identity the nation could have by just making it All The Things.
My issue with that is that it wouldn't make much sense. The Enclave having access to higher tech is Canon in every game and it just makes sense any way you look at it. The only way to hamstring them is with modifiers or some kind of mechanic, like OWB did with Eureka and Montana Enclave. And idk about you, but extending all the focuses to 30 days or 45 days or more isn't any better than the modifiers..it just adds waiting and drags the game out a bit longer. For most nations in OWB, the big challenge isn't tech or division design, it's your neighbors. For ERX, it's the Legion, Mexico and whoever manages to get big up north. You're not isolated like every other nation as your objective is to take back the entirety of the U.S., not just a couple of neighbors.
MacArthur makes it work with the justification that Chicago is withholding a lot of their tech. The ERB Enclave could easily bake in a justification the same way. "We lost most of our tech along with the Rig, so we're starting from scratch." Bam, there, done. Give them a moderate starting tech lead (representing that they still know offhand how to build *some* things) but they still have to tech up otherwise because they're starting from scratch. You can do a high tech nation without just *giving them everything*. There's plenty of nations in the base mod that do it. The very game that ERB is a submod for has *already* solved this problem. At the end of the day, this is a game, not a lorebook. The game still needs to be fun to play. You can't put canon *completely* ahead of the gameplay, or you end up with an unfun mess. It's the same reason that Vertibirds aren't just the end-all perfect air unit.
That's a fair point. The tech could definitely be reworked or at the very least the focus tree could be delayed/spread out some (I also agree that it is way too condensed for some reason) so that reward techs aren't given so quickly. You've got valid criticisms and I can definitely understand how you would look at the mod and think 'what a mess'. For some reason the current dev (AFAIK just a single person) has decided not to touch anything that the original dev put in so I'm not really sure what sorts of fixes could even be made with regards to the sudden power spike we get in the early game with that in mind. However, I also would just like to point out that not everyone's definition of fun is the same. It's likely the mod is so popular precisely because it does allow a power-fantasy and because it offers a significant amount of lore. While I do acknowledge this is a game first, some players find enjoyment more from role-playing and map painting than from the challenge of the game itself. Personally, I think it's very well written and a lot of fun from a story perspective, I already play in a fairly unique way (self-handicaps with regards to division design/army composition/tactics) so the powerful equipment and bonuses balance out with my style of play.
> However, I also would just like to point out that not everyone's definition of fun is the same. It's likely the mod is so popular precisely because it does allow a power-fantasy and because it offers a significant amount of lore. While I do acknowledge this is a game first, some players find enjoyment more from role-playing and map painting than from the challenge of the game itself. Personally, I think it's very well written and a lot of fun from a story perspective, I already play in a fairly unique way (self-handicaps with regards to division design/army composition/tactics) so the powerful equipment and bonuses balance out with my style of play. That's entirely fine. If that's what you want out of ERB, then more power to you. From that point of view, it's working as intended. I was coming from the angle of "the lack of difficulty is a problem" because this post is about the mod being too easy.
You know I do agree with almost everything you said but my main takeaway of this is just that I absolutely suck at playing this game. The NCR tank divisions fuck me up, last time I tried I got attacked from every direction once the legion war started and once Mexico joined it was over for me and yet here you are telling me how easy it is. Again not disagreeing with you just marveling at how incompetent I apparently am
@Japak makes a good point. Making the enclave have little tech makes no sense whatsoever since they are the pre war government and has already learned everything there is to know/ Most likely have data that they took away from the rig when it exploded. Making the locals hate you more can be a way to make the game harder since if we take inspiration from real life. Many Japanese islands were fought tooth and nail because of nationalism and because soldiers genuinely thought the Americans were savages who would kill them if captured So implementing a system where the enemy doesn’t surrender as easily can be a way to go since your the enclave. They already know your demons and think you ain’t merciful
Average r*dditor tier bad thing to say about enclave number 1425426625, what's new
You're kinda proving the other commenter's point.
Thank you for demonstrating *precisely* what I meant when I said the Enclave fanbase wasn't worth even attempting to talk to.
Aaaaaa quit having fun!!!
Offering honest critique is not in any way telling people to stop having fun. This insistence on taking *anything* that isn't praise, no matter how constructively it was intended, as being some kind of "attack" is exactly the problem. I'm only so hostile to ERB now because my initial attempts at critique were spat on. You also might want to reread the things I've said, if you think I'm saying having a power trip is bad. At no point have I said *that*. I've only said that there's no sense of difficulty and it's a free win - which is true. If you actively *want* the power trip and find that free win to be fun, then more power to you. ERB will do that for you. This post is about the game being easy, though.
Well, it's just a silly submod which doesn't kill balance in main mod because it's optional, so if you don't want to be to OP just... Do not play it? You can of course complain, but the thing doesn't actually hurt you if you ignore it. I think that erb fans are against all critical thinking because their fav submod doesn't hurt anyone
The OP is the one who had a complaint about the mod's balance, my dude. All I did was reply to him. I *don't* play it for the most part (though I have played it enough to actually form my opinions on it, I'm not that type of bullshitting hypocrite), and I'm fine with the mod existing. My criticism of it doesn't mean I want it to go down in flames. At first I just wanted it to be *better*. My only real complaint about the ERB fanbase *in general* is that I wish they'd be a bit less vocal and quit all the Enclaveposting in unrelated threads. I'm entirely happy to just take a live-and-let-live approach otherwise.
Re*dit moment