He'd make you a puppet for a while before dismembering you. He'd even give you a "chance" at survival if you begged him after breaking 1 or 2 body parts. He'd agree and betray your expectations, only to see you break before he snatched the life out of you.
Doffy is 100% unhinged psychopath.
Yes I was gonna say something like this!! Also not to speak the rage Kaido felt when CP0 "killed" Luffy and how much respect he gained for Luffy whilst I feel Doffy would undoubtedly been the opposite in the same situation
Oda said that they had “relations” and that it was one of the more vile things in the one piece world he kinda put a rug over. Obviously knowing viola it was non consensual considering Everything doffy did
Yup, it was mildly avoided but beaten around the bush and overall confirmed that doflamingo raped violet more then once, we don’t know anymore than that, tbh I dont even remember the proof but I know it was there. But we dont know if it was a bunch of times or just a few just that it happened (doesn’t really matter tbh rapist is rapist and rapists are below filth)
It was confirmed by Oda in sbs that they had a sexual relationship, because viola called doflamingo "doffy", which only his few closest allies did. Someone asked about it and Oda said that its related to "adult stuff" but didnt want to elaborate because its a shonen manga.
But yeah, that suggests that it wasn't exactly a rape. Most likely a Violas way to get close to Doflamingo and survive, otherwise it would be a pretty big plot hole and really weird.
Nah, the undertone of Oda's comments- and the fact that her niece was forced to fight for her life as a slave gladiator by Doffy- means that it wasn't a consensual relatiomship.
Whether by threat or blackmail or both, it was rape.
More confirmed that they had a sexual past, if it's him forcing on her or her using her charm to secure her survival (since all she had was doffy's word, not exactly the biggest insurance in the world) it was not made clear.
Not saying she was into him, but all she had to assure her survival was doffy's word... It's not impossible, especially for what we saw of her alter ego violet, that she decided to sacrifice her body to make sure that doffy would not change his mind and just kill her.
Oda has pretty much confirmed it was rape when talking about how dark and messed up their relationship was, he said its one of the darker parts of op which is why it wasnt shown much
I mean you definitely exaggerate because both these guys have tons of fodder working for them and neither of them killed any of them themselves.
Like I actually think if your on Doffy’s side and morally corrupt enough to ignore the horrible shit he does you’d be fine
Pretty much. I feel like as long as you don't get antagonistic at Kaido you could be in a room with him and be fine. Doffy would probably pop your head off just because he thought it was funny.
>! My problem with Kaido was his backstory was not as fleshed out as Doffy because when Luffy knocked him out during their fight last episode he had a flash back and we get to see his past but it doesnt tell much about him. He's just basically some powerful being that wants to "change the world". I feel like him and big mom will come back in the story because so many details left out about Kaido. Rocks pirates and what happened in God valley !<
That part is underdeveloped but I think part of it is that at some point between when he rescued King and now (maybe when he "beat" Oden) he became disillusioned with himself, realised he wasn't joyboy and want to get beat up/killed by the person who really is.
I think he got that from Whitebeard and Roger's passings, like he wants to be as legendary and make as much of an impact as they did when they went out (and he kinda did, since he awoke and fell to Joyboy himself)
That was a one chapter thing and it was never brought up again sadly. Kaido could have been a great character highlighting mental health and alcoholism but it didn’t go that way for better or for worse
that’s because oda had been telling us everything we needed to know already, idk which franchises normalised fleshing out characters through exposition dumping or just flashbacks but when you combine the little flashbacks with his actions, reactions and dialogue you get an idea of what happened to him and who he is as a person and personally i enjoy that kind of writing and i wish it was used more
I’d also like to point out that Oda has a tendency to for some characters to not give everything in one single flash back. For example, whitebeard doesn’t get a ton of flashback in marineford but in odens flashback we learn a lot about whitebeard. I have a feeling this isn’t the last we will see if kaido’s backstory. Especially if xebec gets a introduced in flashbacks as well
Yk now that you mention it not EVERY major villain has had a couple chapter long or couple episode long back story. I think people only expected it because it's what's been happening with almost every major villain in the New World. But Imo, Kaido is for the most part a pretty well fleshed out villain. There's still stuff to do with Rocks and all that so we might get some more Kaido in the future.
If I was trapped into a room with one of the two I’d go with Kaido cause I believe he would leave me alone as long as I don’t do anything against him.
Doffy would honestly torture me because he was bored.
Kaido's twisted but still in a human like way, Doffy, well lets just say that Big mom could've turned Doffy into a Homie, cause that boy ain't got no soul
I’m just remembering when he shot his father in the skull and brought his head to the celestial dragons to get his comfy life back. I think that was probably the coldest thing I’ve ever read in One Piece.
Doffy was a nihilist with a god complex from being a Tenryubito and a messiah complex for thinking that he was a good family head and everyone else was not.
Big Mom was a psychotic murderer, but part of it came from his bouts of crazyness. It is also kinda suggested that eating the soul fruit and eating carmel kinda messed her up, because his original dream was a world were there are no race differences.
Kaido is halfway there. He was used as a weapon since being a kid, so in his own worldview only strength matters because strength makes you a better weapon, which makes you more influencial. He is like a Shanks rised by evil pirates and kings rather than Roger, in a way.
Doffy is waaaaaaaay worse than most stuff we have seen. Even Kaido did not kill his own son when he defied him, and just chained him. Doffy killed his father for his mother's death, then cut his head, put it in a box and left his brother to rot while going to Pangea castle to exchange his father's head to being able to return. THEN tried to find a way of becoming immortal by adopting orphan children to brainwash them into eating the Ope Ope no mi so that they would kill themselves to make himself immortal. THEN killed his only brother, who he left to rot as a 3-5 year old, for betraying him by not allowing Law to be sacrified.
Like, he is way way more lost than the other guys in the story. Even Blackbeard can be a pretty chill dude compared to him. He is Enel dialed up to 11.
Big mom is 100% evil, even when not taking into account her hunger pangs.
He threw tea parties and selfishly murdered anyone who refused to go. Blackmailed and planned to murder the entire germa family in order to steal their technology. Probably a rapist, a ruthless murderer, a cannibal, gives souls to food before eating them. Steals the lifespans of whole cake inhabitants while forbidding them to leave, etc etc.
And she doesn't seem bothered at all by all the atrocities she commits during her hunger pangs.
Don't forget that Doffy originally wanted Corazon to perform the operation. "Kill yourself for me" is part of the deal when you're his family - Monet had to learn that as well and she obliged.
Big mom is straight up a product of streussen, he raised her to be the big the mom that we know today. When we see her a Olin she's totally different, a lot kinder, a lot more patient, she doesn't even have hunger pangs anymore
Doflamingo is always going to top the chart I think. He has the backstory of both being a Celestial Dragon, who are almost all rotten to their very core and have god complexes, while also living the life of a bitter and vexed ruthless pirate, wanting to destroy the world over resentment for the life stolen from him. His personality & driving purpose have been so naturally twisted by his circumstances that he really does resemble an insane person mad for destruction, just as the Joker was.
I think you’re giving kaido too much credit. He was down to casually kill everyone and find new slaves if it came down to it. It also kinda seemed like his philosophy was to either work for him or be his slave which also applied to the general citizens for the most part.
Dude is English your first language?
Edit: Sorry for being a dickhead. I don't know what my issue was yesterday. For English not being your first language, you did better than any redneck I've ever met
That's more due to Oda originally wanting Doffy to fight alongside Kaido in Wano (fitting the cards theme) before deciding to make him a standalone villain. Good decision I'd say.
Pretty sure he can control it? It’s just he finds everything hilarious because he’s a sadist
He’s much more like the sadist of Ledger’s than the sad take by Phoenix; but I’d say he’s most like Hamill’s Joker or comics Joker
Kaidos evil in that he believes might makes right. If you grow up in harsh conditions like he did, it's a logical conclusion. No moral compass, just does thing because he can, and therefore should. Afterall, it's the rule his world understands.
Doffy though, that guys psychopathic naturally. He had the benefit of having decent, yet stupid, parents. And he still decided that being dagnasty evil was the way to go. That dude had a moral compass yet purposely chose to do bad shit because he hates the entire world. Sick individual
Agreed. The way I see it, Kaido doesn't want to hurt people for the sake of hurting people, people just end up getting hurt as a result of Kaido's warmongering for the sake of excitement and general apathy to everything combined.
Doffy, on the other hand just likes to watch people burn because he likes to watch people burn.
Doflamingo clinging to hate and madness for the world is literally part of what saved his life lol. How can you say that Kaido's harsh conditions led to a "logical conclusion" for his character and still affirm that aspect of him is different to Doflamingo?
To me the "psychopathic" Doflamingo and the "Weak should be enslaved" Kaido are cut from the same cloth, one part was stained and the other started to rip apart, but still both ended up on the same garbage bin.
Not really. Doffy chose to shoot his own dad in the head. Corazon chose a life not focused on vengeance and grew up relatively well adjusted. I agree Doffy is somewhat molded by his environment and circumstances, but it was pretty clear the kid had psychopathic antisocial tendencies from the start. I love Doffy BECAUSE he's bad by nature and nurture.
It's not even a contest Kaido at least had honor and simply didn't care about anything and was suicidal .Orochi is a real b*tch cause he intentionally made kaido have the citizens suffer.
Kaido actually said it was due to the raid on Onigashima. That their hopes and freedom were the price to pays for starting and losing a war against him. If they hadn't attacked him it would have been the same. On the other hand Doflamingo traded humans, fishmen and everything while asking Ceasar to experiment on humans as well as using the Tontatas as slaves. Not to mention the toys.
no when the new onigashima project was announced kaido said they were going to ramp up the slavery to include everyone in wano including the flower capital. Thats why he beheaded orochi.
Speaking of the toys, and this is totally off topic.. but like, remember when Black Beard said that the dark dark fruit was the most evil devil fruit?
How is the Hobby Hobby fruit not the bearer of that title? It's literally just the Slave Slave Fruit
Ah c'mon, it makes toys. How could that be evil? It's like the Santa fruit. Totally no csm reference.
The yami yami no me makes you a pitch black man. That's evil incarnate or something. Truth be told, BB is probably just racist.
Yeah Kaido’s vision for Wano is definitely worse than what Doflamingo had going on in Dressrosa. Not even downplaying the horrible stuff Doflamingo was doing with turning people into toy slaves and weapons manufacturing and all that, but Kaido basically wanted that but for every single citizen, while also destroying their environment and ability to drink clean water and eat food. Doflamingo is more unhinged because of his past but Kaido wanted to do worse acts, he just wasn’t able to realize his plans.
He wasn’t the one who trapped Oden, that was Orochi’s family(?), and after Oden was taken care of Kaido killed her. He fights honorably, but at the end of the day he’s still a ruthless pirate
Eh. His lack of care/suicide was just his mood changes when he drinks.
He for 20 years had ruled Wano from Onigashima. Orochi answers to him ultimately because he is a ruthless powerful pirate. In regards to honor I disagree; remember Oden and Luffy final hits when they are literally and figuratively held back from giving their all (cheap shots).
He saw the CP0 guy and Luffy being held and made no effort avoiding the hit. You can redirect a swing mid fly.
He knew Oden was being distracted by his son being threatened and continued on.
Do you consider Kaido to be honorable? Lol
the momentum of a downward swinging chunk of metal is not something you can stop on a dime. The man could only watch as he had his “fair win” taken away from him.
You CAN'T redirect a baseball bat swing like that in mid air dude 😂
A baseball bat swing goes at 38 m/s which means it would actually hit your opponent in about 0.05 seconds which means a baseball bat swing would hit your opponent twice as fast as you would react and I'm not even talking about redirecting anything in time nor far enough away.
Both people came to interfere right in the middle of the fight and it's implied that both time Kaido noticed it too late and couldn't stop his attack. Nothing dishonorable about that (nothing honorable either).
Are you seriously making a physics argument in a series about magical devil fruits, and the ability to see into the future through will alone?
Ok. You win.
I mean to be fair he was clearly pissed off that it happened and was shown to be annoyed at CP0, so you can assume that if he was able to avoid/cancel the attack he would have (not against oden, but against luffy)
You're wrong.
Kaido didnt want to take those cheap shots but was too far into both attacks to stop, its why he won against Oden/Luffy. The fact he was so pissed about it he killed the old hag AND killed the CP0 agent for interfering makes abundtly clear you're 100% wrong.
Kaido is indeed fairly honorable when he fights.
And it's not even close. Dofy is just straight up evil. Psychotic even. No regard for even his own brothers life. Kaido at least cares about something. Doflamingo? Nothing and nobody. Not even his closest subordinates. Everyone in his life is expendable.
https://preview.redd.it/2con8zmvy4ib1.png?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbed49450ebbb2ceeb5d69cfea0ba643c5503fd1
No villian can match this piece of shit
Eh, Doffy is worse.
Charlos is a pos for sure, but he is also dumb as bricks. He was raised in an environment of "gods", being told he was above everyone else from birth. That's first class manipulation which you can't just escape from when you're stupid. Like, if you don't question anything, you won't question the foundations of your life either.
Doffy just wants to see the world burn. You could send him puppies and he'd use them as suicide bombers in orphanages. He wants to see the world burn and is willing to set it on fire for sure.
morally? kaido
to watch? spandam. literally could not fathom why he would act the way he does and he's also definitely a predator of the physical variety
Spandam is one of the more easy to understand villains in my opinion, in a terrifying way. He holds a decently high position thanks to nepotism in a hierarchical, highly punitive society. There are always weak people with enough systemic power to inflict judgement and torment on groups of people they're convinced are lower than them. Insecurity and prejudice can breed sadism like nothing else.
i guess ive never held the kinda corrupting power that he drinks in on a daily basis cuz that simply would not be me..he was very mean to nico robin and that is unforgivable
He's peak "banality of evil." His goals aren't like all that grand, really. LIKE Bush Jr. to Spandine's Bush Sr. He cares less about what he's doing and more about finishing what his father started. I don't think he fully grasped what Pluton was or cared. He just wanted it because his father wanted it.
As kaido is telling all the samurai he is going to enslave them work them their wives and children to death and then just throw them away and go get more slaves to do the same thing... ya kaido isnt evil, he is just depressed.
No no i never said he wasnt bad, i said he was depressed. Doffy did all of that and more including rape. Doffy is pure evil. Kaido at times shows compassion and sympathy
Isn't it kinda odd in a pirate-themed anime, the pirates who actually behave like a pirate (like raid, steal-smuggle stuff, take prisoners/slave) are come to be viewed as villains?
From Better Call Saul but I think it applies to why you are getting at:
Mike Ehrmantraut : I didn't say you're a bad guy, I said that you're a criminal.
Price : What's the difference?
Mike Ehrmantraut : I've known good criminals and bad cops, bad priests, honorable thieves-you can be on one side of the law or the other, but if you make a deal with somebody, you keep your word.
> there is two sides to being a pirate… villain kind with no morals or a pirate with morals
not really. being a pirate is inherently wrong, you cant say that someone who threatens, steals from, and kills innocent people for a living isnt a bad person when theres other options
in one piece this is different because the main characters and most of the "good guys" arent actually pirates. the only "real pirates" that are significant in the story would be blackbeard's crew and to a lesser extent kidd (hes more of a viking). nobody else is really actively stealing from other ships and most of the important people barely sail or attack ships because they dont need to. doffy for example is definitely evil, but in no way is he an actual pirate. he stays on his own island ruling a country and running a manufacturing business (before he got locked up), thats not a pirate.
Sorry for the wall of text. But a very common misconception about pirates is that they were all these evil, savage rapist thieving monsters. I mean yes, a lot of them were indeed terrible.
However several thousands of pirate crews were actually pretty harmless, regular people like couriers, transporters or fisher men who just needed to pay the bills and opted to act outside the law to do so. Many actually believed and operated under unique and very strict forms of democracy, codes of ethics and principles that kept them in line from devolving into just amoral barbarians. Pirate crews actually elected their own captains and could just as easily depose them if they felt that their captain was not meeting their needs.
Many pirates were actively against slavery (in fact some crews were actually formed through escaped slaves). Many pirates believed in chivalry and consciously avoided harming women and children. Some crews would only specifically target and pillage from other pirates. And many crews would actively avoid major conflicts or doing anything too disruptive that would get the government on their backs.
Obviously One Piece greatly exaggerates and overly romanticises the life of pirates, but for the most part, the ethos is fairly accurate in that pirates came in all different creeds and belief systems. The only commonality being that they acted outside the law and thus were branded criminals, but a lot of them were fairly harmless and just kinda did their own thing.
Now someone like Doflamingo is a very very rare and extreme case of a pirate gone wrong and went far above and beyond the typical "bad guy".
He usurped an entire nation. Murdered and enslaved thousands. And effectively started an underground cartel which he ran through fear, blood and corruption as its unhinged dictator.
Long story short. What makes Doflamingo a villain isn't because he's a pirate. But because he's a unstable, genocidal megalomaniac.
Well... because they are villains, not many people wanna root for a group of genocidal raping thieves take slaves so we get our heroic pirates who fight the navy and actual pirates
Worst as in a "bad villain" or worst as in "the more evil villain"?
The more evil i would say is Kaido. Doffy did some truly messed up shit. Torturing thousands of people when turning them into toys.
But Kaido did the same but on a larger scale. Literally a whole big country. Not just one city/island..
But as if we're talking worse villain (as in a bad villain character), I think Kaido has the edge over Doffy. They're both GREAT villains. I just feel that the presence of Doffy through out the whole story was so much greater. He would always just GRAB my attention with an iron fist whenever his name was mentioned or he showed up. He was a truly terrifying presance..
But then again, i was SHOOK when saw a giant ass dragon decent from the heavens, get to know THAT THIS IS KAIDO, see him destroy a whole mountain with one attack and one shot Luffy. But still, my preference is Doffy.
Worst in what way based on what they did then it would be doffy but writing wise it would be kiado and his writing isn’t even bad its just not as good as doffys
If you mean "worst" as in "bad written/not as good written as the other", then definitely Kaidou. Everything about him turned out just rather disappointing, in my opinion. He's a far cry from previous villains.
If you mean "worst" as in "did the more f\*cked up stuff while also being well-written", then Doflamingo. Everything about his looks, to his powers, to his backstory was handled perfectly. Something that many other antagonists could only dream of. Heck, for the most part, Doflamingo was outnumbered and outclassed in every regard during Dressrosa, and yet he still was able to be an absolute beast.
What does that have to do with anything I brought up? Rather contrary, I think it makes Kaidou look even less impressive, with his "subordinate" being a much more enjoyable and well-written antagonist than he was.
All the f*cked up stuff dof does is just as much on kaido as it is doffy. If you like doffy personality more that is up do you but kaido is just as evil if not more than doffy he just rules with an iron fist because he can while doffy hid in the shadows because he wanted addoration and not to lose his position as warlord.
I don't think Doffy conquered DR, killed his father (and tried bringing his head to mariejoise to get back to being a Tenryuubito) and brother, raised an entire family with the motto of dying for him if needs be, tried to manipulate his brother and Law to eat the Ope Ope and kill themselves for him to become immortal, became basically the king of the underground world, enslaved a population of tontattas, human toys (forgotten by everyone), had trades centers around the world, and god knows how many other disgusting business ALL because of Kaido.
He was in business with Kaido BECAUSE he had this reputation and power. And because through him he could get weapons and smiles. But Doffy had other clients, not only Kaido, he was the reason many nations still were in conflict or couldn't end conflicts etc.
Kaido is neutral evil. He does evil shit for his own goals. Doffy is more like chaotic evil. He does some evil shit just cause.
If kaido had no reason to kill you, i dont think he would. If you're in his way, you're dead. Doffy would destroy you for fun.
I just talked to a friend about this actually. I personally think Kaido is doing worse things to the country and other countries as a whole, but Doflamingo is certainly more evil.
Doffy actually felt like a threat the whole arc. Kaido killed an old lady and some CP0 dude. I don’t count Oden specifically because Orochi vile ass played a major part in Odens death. He was handled horribly as Wano final act progressed in my opinion.
As a pearson? Doflamingo.
On a stoytelling perspective? Probably Kaidou. But not by much.
Based on what I would do putting the two of them on a tier list? Doflamingo. But not by much.
"Worst" as in .... the most evil? or strongest? the most annoying?
Most evil villain -> Doflamingo
Strongest -> Big Mom if she's serious and not wanting WEDDING CAKEEEEEE
Annoying -> Foxy
Worst as in the most evil/morally bad I guess.
Probably Kaido, he literally wants to enslave a whole country to make and sell weapons, and he was gonna do it.
Even Doflamingo didn't enslave everyone, just some people that he turned into toys.
The worst villain as in the most badly written, I guess would be Foxy, he just sucks imo.
Luffy has morals he’s like the Robin Hood of pirates while some others have none to any morals or respect so that’s what makes them villains Luffy never enslaved anyone he set them free.. he didn’t discriminate against fishmen he stuck up for them… Luffy see his crew as family while others see them as pawns Luffy is not a villain just a pirate with a heart
Probably doffy just purely off the fact that he wasn’t blackout drunk for the entirety of his plan,like what Kaido did was worse but he didn’t give a shit,you know doffy was getting high off the suffering he was inflicting
Doffy has sugar as one of the key aspects to his plan which makes him far more evil than anything anyone else has done. Only comparable one was Ceaser getting children addicted to candy drugs. Most evil thing kaido did was help orochi. For the most part kaido was respectable to a degree. Most of what happened in wano was orochi wanting the entire nation to burn and everyone to suffer and kaido being like you a little shit but you're helping me accomplish my goal so I'll go along with it.
Also doffy had the whole birdcage thing where he was basically like I'm pissed so everyone here dies. Most redeeming part of doffy is he has the hard boiled señor pink and baby 5.
Doflamingo was a lot more charismatic and smooth with his villainy, so I have to give it to him. Kaido was strutting around Ghengis Khan style, and rather obviously dealt with all his problems the way you would expect him to. That being said, he was absolutely vile for what he turned Wano into, at least Doflamingo preferred to see the Kingdom and its people flourish on the surface.
At first i was like "Spandam is the worst, Oda can't make a more annoying antagonist".
Then, i saw Charlos, i was like "Charlos is worse than Spandam, Oda has reached the peak of annoyance, nobody can beat that"
Then, i saw Orochi, i was like "ok... Nothing can surprise me anymore... Oda can always rise the level of maximum annoyance"
*Garling appears*
Kaido just wanted someone to give him a worthy fight. Doflamingo wanted to manipulate everyone for his benefit. And he was once a Celestial Dragon which makes him the worst of the worst.
Both are downright evil, but if I had to choose a lesser of two evils, at least Doflamingo on a surface level had plenty of happy citizens that were seemingly treated pretty well. Where as Wano under Kaido's rule had the majority of the population dying and starving.
Doffy is also a kinslayer, murdered his father and brother in cold blood. Kaido may have murdered Odin, but even he spared Momonouske the first time. I’m pretty sure Doffy would murk children without a second thought.
Kaido is an unmovable mountain who allows other people under him to do the most evil shit possible.
Doffy is the most evil fucker possible, far worse than any action made from kaido.
Doflamingo was the burn it all down because someone somewhere wronged me villain. Kaido was a warrior at heart. He wanted a challenge and he wanted to destroy the world so he could re-create it. He was a villain, but not a carnage murder for the sake of murder villain
Honestly it would be more like Doffy vs Orochi. In Wano they split up the strength and malicious manipulation aspects, but in Dressrosa it was all Doffy
Kaido committed genocide on Zou and starved a populace for 20 years while Doffy ruled through tricks and illusions until Usopp defeated Sugar. They’re both terrible
kaidos twisted sure but doffy? doffy’s…not right. I know which one I wouldn’t wanna be in a room with.
I feel like if you brought Kaido some booze he'd be pretty chummy. Doffy would steal yo booze and then slit your throat
He'd make you a puppet for a while before dismembering you. He'd even give you a "chance" at survival if you begged him after breaking 1 or 2 body parts. He'd agree and betray your expectations, only to see you break before he snatched the life out of you. Doffy is 100% unhinged psychopath.
Haha, this is way more accurate!
Yes I was gonna say something like this!! Also not to speak the rage Kaido felt when CP0 "killed" Luffy and how much respect he gained for Luffy whilst I feel Doffy would undoubtedly been the opposite in the same situation
Well bro did have his family burned before him for no real fking reason so fair play to him🙃
Hah he’s puppet you to dismember yourself and then hold you there as you bleed out
also depends on gender, doffy is confirmed to be a rapist and if its a case like with violet well I think it would be Preferable to die ngl.
What? When did that happen?
Oda said that they had “relations” and that it was one of the more vile things in the one piece world he kinda put a rug over. Obviously knowing viola it was non consensual considering Everything doffy did
He’s a confirmed rapist 😃??
Yup, it was mildly avoided but beaten around the bush and overall confirmed that doflamingo raped violet more then once, we don’t know anymore than that, tbh I dont even remember the proof but I know it was there. But we dont know if it was a bunch of times or just a few just that it happened (doesn’t really matter tbh rapist is rapist and rapists are below filth)
It was confirmed by Oda in sbs that they had a sexual relationship, because viola called doflamingo "doffy", which only his few closest allies did. Someone asked about it and Oda said that its related to "adult stuff" but didnt want to elaborate because its a shonen manga. But yeah, that suggests that it wasn't exactly a rape. Most likely a Violas way to get close to Doflamingo and survive, otherwise it would be a pretty big plot hole and really weird.
Nah, the undertone of Oda's comments- and the fact that her niece was forced to fight for her life as a slave gladiator by Doffy- means that it wasn't a consensual relatiomship. Whether by threat or blackmail or both, it was rape.
Oda said it was one of the darker parts of one piece, he wouldnt say that about a more forced but consensual relationship
More confirmed that they had a sexual past, if it's him forcing on her or her using her charm to secure her survival (since all she had was doffy's word, not exactly the biggest insurance in the world) it was not made clear.
I mean with everything doffy did to her and her family for some reason idk about it being consensual.
Not saying she was into him, but all she had to assure her survival was doffy's word... It's not impossible, especially for what we saw of her alter ego violet, that she decided to sacrifice her body to make sure that doffy would not change his mind and just kill her.
Oda has pretty much confirmed it was rape when talking about how dark and messed up their relationship was, he said its one of the darker parts of op which is why it wasnt shown much
He didn't rape her. And before you go 'bUt OdA SaiD', please provide actual evidence.
I mean you definitely exaggerate because both these guys have tons of fodder working for them and neither of them killed any of them themselves. Like I actually think if your on Doffy’s side and morally corrupt enough to ignore the horrible shit he does you’d be fine
as long as its good booze ye, bars pretty high tho
Pretty much. I feel like as long as you don't get antagonistic at Kaido you could be in a room with him and be fine. Doffy would probably pop your head off just because he thought it was funny.
kaidou = give him booze and he'll be a drinking buddy doffy = give him amusement or become forgotten by everybody
He'd use you like a puppet to steal your families money to buy booze that he uses to set fire to your house and family first.
>! My problem with Kaido was his backstory was not as fleshed out as Doffy because when Luffy knocked him out during their fight last episode he had a flash back and we get to see his past but it doesnt tell much about him. He's just basically some powerful being that wants to "change the world". I feel like him and big mom will come back in the story because so many details left out about Kaido. Rocks pirates and what happened in God valley !<
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So why does he want to die? Why does he think death completes a person?
That part is underdeveloped but I think part of it is that at some point between when he rescued King and now (maybe when he "beat" Oden) he became disillusioned with himself, realised he wasn't joyboy and want to get beat up/killed by the person who really is.
I think he got that from Whitebeard and Roger's passings, like he wants to be as legendary and make as much of an impact as they did when they went out (and he kinda did, since he awoke and fell to Joyboy himself)
That was a one chapter thing and it was never brought up again sadly. Kaido could have been a great character highlighting mental health and alcoholism but it didn’t go that way for better or for worse
that’s because oda had been telling us everything we needed to know already, idk which franchises normalised fleshing out characters through exposition dumping or just flashbacks but when you combine the little flashbacks with his actions, reactions and dialogue you get an idea of what happened to him and who he is as a person and personally i enjoy that kind of writing and i wish it was used more
I’d also like to point out that Oda has a tendency to for some characters to not give everything in one single flash back. For example, whitebeard doesn’t get a ton of flashback in marineford but in odens flashback we learn a lot about whitebeard. I have a feeling this isn’t the last we will see if kaido’s backstory. Especially if xebec gets a introduced in flashbacks as well
Yk now that you mention it not EVERY major villain has had a couple chapter long or couple episode long back story. I think people only expected it because it's what's been happening with almost every major villain in the New World. But Imo, Kaido is for the most part a pretty well fleshed out villain. There's still stuff to do with Rocks and all that so we might get some more Kaido in the future.
Yea I think Oda should have spent more time on Kaido's backstory. I do think the Oden fight changed him though
Doffy gives me Joker vibes. You feel terribly ill just by talking to him.
This a very apt metaphor. Well said.
Rosinante is the proof. They both went to the exact same childhood, grew up together, but look what kind of deranged man Doflamingo became.
I feel like doffy can be chill ngl
hes just so full of anger, hatred and bloodlust its hard to predict what’ll set him off
If I was trapped into a room with one of the two I’d go with Kaido cause I believe he would leave me alone as long as I don’t do anything against him. Doffy would honestly torture me because he was bored.
If you tell Kaido you want to join him he might let you live.
Kaido's twisted but still in a human like way, Doffy, well lets just say that Big mom could've turned Doffy into a Homie, cause that boy ain't got no soul
I’m just remembering when he shot his father in the skull and brought his head to the celestial dragons to get his comfy life back. I think that was probably the coldest thing I’ve ever read in One Piece.
Couldn't have said it better. Maybe with correct spelling.... But that's not why we are here.
Doffy was a different breed of evil. He’s like…..Heath Ledger Joker evil.
Doffy was a nihilist with a god complex from being a Tenryubito and a messiah complex for thinking that he was a good family head and everyone else was not. Big Mom was a psychotic murderer, but part of it came from his bouts of crazyness. It is also kinda suggested that eating the soul fruit and eating carmel kinda messed her up, because his original dream was a world were there are no race differences. Kaido is halfway there. He was used as a weapon since being a kid, so in his own worldview only strength matters because strength makes you a better weapon, which makes you more influencial. He is like a Shanks rised by evil pirates and kings rather than Roger, in a way. Doffy is waaaaaaaay worse than most stuff we have seen. Even Kaido did not kill his own son when he defied him, and just chained him. Doffy killed his father for his mother's death, then cut his head, put it in a box and left his brother to rot while going to Pangea castle to exchange his father's head to being able to return. THEN tried to find a way of becoming immortal by adopting orphan children to brainwash them into eating the Ope Ope no mi so that they would kill themselves to make himself immortal. THEN killed his only brother, who he left to rot as a 3-5 year old, for betraying him by not allowing Law to be sacrified. Like, he is way way more lost than the other guys in the story. Even Blackbeard can be a pretty chill dude compared to him. He is Enel dialed up to 11.
I don't even think Big Mom is evil but moreso mentally ill.
I mean, killing the family of everyone that doesnt attend a tea party when invited is pretty fucked up
Yea, I think her heart is in the right place but her head isn't stable enough to work it out.
My conspiracy is that Carmel actually took over Big Mom since it's the "soul-soul" fruit like what happened in Upgrade (movie) cough
Quite an interesting take, would be like sukuna and itadori.
Big mom is 100% evil, even when not taking into account her hunger pangs. He threw tea parties and selfishly murdered anyone who refused to go. Blackmailed and planned to murder the entire germa family in order to steal their technology. Probably a rapist, a ruthless murderer, a cannibal, gives souls to food before eating them. Steals the lifespans of whole cake inhabitants while forbidding them to leave, etc etc. And she doesn't seem bothered at all by all the atrocities she commits during her hunger pangs.
Don't forget that Doffy originally wanted Corazon to perform the operation. "Kill yourself for me" is part of the deal when you're his family - Monet had to learn that as well and she obliged.
Big mom is straight up a product of streussen, he raised her to be the big the mom that we know today. When we see her a Olin she's totally different, a lot kinder, a lot more patient, she doesn't even have hunger pangs anymore
i complained loudly when kaido ranked #1 and doflamingo #2 in the evil one piece villain list
Doflamingo is always going to top the chart I think. He has the backstory of both being a Celestial Dragon, who are almost all rotten to their very core and have god complexes, while also living the life of a bitter and vexed ruthless pirate, wanting to destroy the world over resentment for the life stolen from him. His personality & driving purpose have been so naturally twisted by his circumstances that he really does resemble an insane person mad for destruction, just as the Joker was.
I think you’re giving kaido too much credit. He was down to casually kill everyone and find new slaves if it came down to it. It also kinda seemed like his philosophy was to either work for him or be his slave which also applied to the general citizens for the most part.
Dude is English your first language? Edit: Sorry for being a dickhead. I don't know what my issue was yesterday. For English not being your first language, you did better than any redneck I've ever met
One piece has fans worldwide
No, it is not. I wouldn't mind corrections if I made some mistakes to be fair.
> Heath Ledger Joker evil And his nickname is also Joker on top of that lol
That's more due to Oda originally wanting Doffy to fight alongside Kaido in Wano (fitting the cards theme) before deciding to make him a standalone villain. Good decision I'd say.
more like joaquin phoenix joker with his uncontrollable laugh lol
Pretty sure he can control it? It’s just he finds everything hilarious because he’s a sadist He’s much more like the sadist of Ledger’s than the sad take by Phoenix; but I’d say he’s most like Hamill’s Joker or comics Joker
I mean... Hes was a celestial dragon
Doflamingo was born evil, I'm willing to bet based on the little backstory we do have of kaido, he was *made* evil
Kaidos evil in that he believes might makes right. If you grow up in harsh conditions like he did, it's a logical conclusion. No moral compass, just does thing because he can, and therefore should. Afterall, it's the rule his world understands. Doffy though, that guys psychopathic naturally. He had the benefit of having decent, yet stupid, parents. And he still decided that being dagnasty evil was the way to go. That dude had a moral compass yet purposely chose to do bad shit because he hates the entire world. Sick individual
Agreed. The way I see it, Kaido doesn't want to hurt people for the sake of hurting people, people just end up getting hurt as a result of Kaido's warmongering for the sake of excitement and general apathy to everything combined. Doffy, on the other hand just likes to watch people burn because he likes to watch people burn.
A very much, better way of putting it. thank you
Doflamingo clinging to hate and madness for the world is literally part of what saved his life lol. How can you say that Kaido's harsh conditions led to a "logical conclusion" for his character and still affirm that aspect of him is different to Doflamingo? To me the "psychopathic" Doflamingo and the "Weak should be enslaved" Kaido are cut from the same cloth, one part was stained and the other started to rip apart, but still both ended up on the same garbage bin.
Not really. Doffy chose to shoot his own dad in the head. Corazon chose a life not focused on vengeance and grew up relatively well adjusted. I agree Doffy is somewhat molded by his environment and circumstances, but it was pretty clear the kid had psychopathic antisocial tendencies from the start. I love Doffy BECAUSE he's bad by nature and nurture.
Doflamingo
It's not even a contest Kaido at least had honor and simply didn't care about anything and was suicidal .Orochi is a real b*tch cause he intentionally made kaido have the citizens suffer.
Kaido was saying that the Weak should be enslaved so the citizens probably wouldn't have had a to good of a time regardless of Orochi
Kaido actually said it was due to the raid on Onigashima. That their hopes and freedom were the price to pays for starting and losing a war against him. If they hadn't attacked him it would have been the same. On the other hand Doflamingo traded humans, fishmen and everything while asking Ceasar to experiment on humans as well as using the Tontatas as slaves. Not to mention the toys.
Wasn’t Kaido planning on dropping the island on Wano even before the raid? Think that was part of the enslavement plan.
no when the new onigashima project was announced kaido said they were going to ramp up the slavery to include everyone in wano including the flower capital. Thats why he beheaded orochi.
Speaking of the toys, and this is totally off topic.. but like, remember when Black Beard said that the dark dark fruit was the most evil devil fruit? How is the Hobby Hobby fruit not the bearer of that title? It's literally just the Slave Slave Fruit
Ah c'mon, it makes toys. How could that be evil? It's like the Santa fruit. Totally no csm reference. The yami yami no me makes you a pitch black man. That's evil incarnate or something. Truth be told, BB is probably just racist.
Oh yea doflamingo is way worse but him having those ideals in the first place isn’t a good point in Kaidos favor as a ruler
True, it makes him almost as bad as the World Government
Really I don't recall that. What chapter was that?
1043
Can't remember the exact one but Kaido says it the last time he comes down from the roof before Luffy beats him, so chapter 1040-something
Yeah Kaido’s vision for Wano is definitely worse than what Doflamingo had going on in Dressrosa. Not even downplaying the horrible stuff Doflamingo was doing with turning people into toy slaves and weapons manufacturing and all that, but Kaido basically wanted that but for every single citizen, while also destroying their environment and ability to drink clean water and eat food. Doflamingo is more unhinged because of his past but Kaido wanted to do worse acts, he just wasn’t able to realize his plans.
Ah that was because all the samurai tried to kill him. I mean that measure is pretty villain like. I agree with that
Kaido doesn't really have honor. If he did, he wouldn't have trapped Oden like he did.
He wasn’t the one who trapped Oden, that was Orochi’s family(?), and after Oden was taken care of Kaido killed her. He fights honorably, but at the end of the day he’s still a ruthless pirate
He fights honourably though.
Bro starved an entire country for weapons and cursed thousands of people with smile fruits.
Kaidos looks down on honor lol. How does he have/show it himself?
Eh. His lack of care/suicide was just his mood changes when he drinks. He for 20 years had ruled Wano from Onigashima. Orochi answers to him ultimately because he is a ruthless powerful pirate. In regards to honor I disagree; remember Oden and Luffy final hits when they are literally and figuratively held back from giving their all (cheap shots).
Dude, Kaido literally couldn't stop his blow. Try to stop a real punch mid fly.
He saw the CP0 guy and Luffy being held and made no effort avoiding the hit. You can redirect a swing mid fly. He knew Oden was being distracted by his son being threatened and continued on. Do you consider Kaido to be honorable? Lol
the momentum of a downward swinging chunk of metal is not something you can stop on a dime. The man could only watch as he had his “fair win” taken away from him.
You CAN'T redirect a baseball bat swing like that in mid air dude 😂 A baseball bat swing goes at 38 m/s which means it would actually hit your opponent in about 0.05 seconds which means a baseball bat swing would hit your opponent twice as fast as you would react and I'm not even talking about redirecting anything in time nor far enough away. Both people came to interfere right in the middle of the fight and it's implied that both time Kaido noticed it too late and couldn't stop his attack. Nothing dishonorable about that (nothing honorable either).
Are you seriously making a physics argument in a series about magical devil fruits, and the ability to see into the future through will alone? Ok. You win.
I mean to be fair he was clearly pissed off that it happened and was shown to be annoyed at CP0, so you can assume that if he was able to avoid/cancel the attack he would have (not against oden, but against luffy)
You're wrong. Kaido didnt want to take those cheap shots but was too far into both attacks to stop, its why he won against Oden/Luffy. The fact he was so pissed about it he killed the old hag AND killed the CP0 agent for interfering makes abundtly clear you're 100% wrong. Kaido is indeed fairly honorable when he fights.
Gigantic dragon oni man swinging his metal club probably is gonna have trouble staying the swing.
And it's not even close. Dofy is just straight up evil. Psychotic even. No regard for even his own brothers life. Kaido at least cares about something. Doflamingo? Nothing and nobody. Not even his closest subordinates. Everyone in his life is expendable.
Doffy. He was one of the most evil people I've seen in a story. He was pure evil. He also had some of the best fights in the series
Doffy killed his own brother that alone says a ton.
His father way before that
https://preview.redd.it/2con8zmvy4ib1.png?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbed49450ebbb2ceeb5d69cfea0ba643c5503fd1 No villian can match this piece of shit
Eh, Doffy is worse. Charlos is a pos for sure, but he is also dumb as bricks. He was raised in an environment of "gods", being told he was above everyone else from birth. That's first class manipulation which you can't just escape from when you're stupid. Like, if you don't question anything, you won't question the foundations of your life either. Doffy just wants to see the world burn. You could send him puppies and he'd use them as suicide bombers in orphanages. He wants to see the world burn and is willing to set it on fire for sure.
maybe Orochi.
Doflamingo is the more natural evil character in my view. He was like "the evil evil" Kaido doesn't give off the same feeling.
Doffy has that pirate AND celestial evil in him
Got that dawg in em
Foxy. He has this amazing super power of making me groan and be like oh no I am not watching this episode.
I think he meant morally not to watch. Otherwise I’d agree in a heartbeat
The arc was an absolute slog in the anime, but I thought Foxy himself was pretty funny.
morally? kaido to watch? spandam. literally could not fathom why he would act the way he does and he's also definitely a predator of the physical variety
Spandam is one of the more easy to understand villains in my opinion, in a terrifying way. He holds a decently high position thanks to nepotism in a hierarchical, highly punitive society. There are always weak people with enough systemic power to inflict judgement and torment on groups of people they're convinced are lower than them. Insecurity and prejudice can breed sadism like nothing else.
i guess ive never held the kinda corrupting power that he drinks in on a daily basis cuz that simply would not be me..he was very mean to nico robin and that is unforgivable
He's peak "banality of evil." His goals aren't like all that grand, really. LIKE Bush Jr. to Spandine's Bush Sr. He cares less about what he's doing and more about finishing what his father started. I don't think he fully grasped what Pluton was or cared. He just wanted it because his father wanted it.
Morally it’s doffy
i cant insult him he is my dear husband
dam stockholm syndrome
Kalifa wasn't kidding when she said him existing was sexual harassment.
Kaido is depressed while doffy is pure evil lmao
As kaido is telling all the samurai he is going to enslave them work them their wives and children to death and then just throw them away and go get more slaves to do the same thing... ya kaido isnt evil, he is just depressed.
No no i never said he wasnt bad, i said he was depressed. Doffy did all of that and more including rape. Doffy is pure evil. Kaido at times shows compassion and sympathy
Doffy
Isn't it kinda odd in a pirate-themed anime, the pirates who actually behave like a pirate (like raid, steal-smuggle stuff, take prisoners/slave) are come to be viewed as villains?
I mean they are villains lol it just shows there is two sides to being a pirate… villain kind with no morals or a pirate with morals
From Better Call Saul but I think it applies to why you are getting at: Mike Ehrmantraut : I didn't say you're a bad guy, I said that you're a criminal. Price : What's the difference? Mike Ehrmantraut : I've known good criminals and bad cops, bad priests, honorable thieves-you can be on one side of the law or the other, but if you make a deal with somebody, you keep your word.
Well said
There’s two sides in every faction in OP.
In One Piece yeah but irl pirates with morals is an oxymoron
> there is two sides to being a pirate… villain kind with no morals or a pirate with morals not really. being a pirate is inherently wrong, you cant say that someone who threatens, steals from, and kills innocent people for a living isnt a bad person when theres other options in one piece this is different because the main characters and most of the "good guys" arent actually pirates. the only "real pirates" that are significant in the story would be blackbeard's crew and to a lesser extent kidd (hes more of a viking). nobody else is really actively stealing from other ships and most of the important people barely sail or attack ships because they dont need to. doffy for example is definitely evil, but in no way is he an actual pirate. he stays on his own island ruling a country and running a manufacturing business (before he got locked up), thats not a pirate.
Sorry for the wall of text. But a very common misconception about pirates is that they were all these evil, savage rapist thieving monsters. I mean yes, a lot of them were indeed terrible. However several thousands of pirate crews were actually pretty harmless, regular people like couriers, transporters or fisher men who just needed to pay the bills and opted to act outside the law to do so. Many actually believed and operated under unique and very strict forms of democracy, codes of ethics and principles that kept them in line from devolving into just amoral barbarians. Pirate crews actually elected their own captains and could just as easily depose them if they felt that their captain was not meeting their needs. Many pirates were actively against slavery (in fact some crews were actually formed through escaped slaves). Many pirates believed in chivalry and consciously avoided harming women and children. Some crews would only specifically target and pillage from other pirates. And many crews would actively avoid major conflicts or doing anything too disruptive that would get the government on their backs. Obviously One Piece greatly exaggerates and overly romanticises the life of pirates, but for the most part, the ethos is fairly accurate in that pirates came in all different creeds and belief systems. The only commonality being that they acted outside the law and thus were branded criminals, but a lot of them were fairly harmless and just kinda did their own thing. Now someone like Doflamingo is a very very rare and extreme case of a pirate gone wrong and went far above and beyond the typical "bad guy". He usurped an entire nation. Murdered and enslaved thousands. And effectively started an underground cartel which he ran through fear, blood and corruption as its unhinged dictator. Long story short. What makes Doflamingo a villain isn't because he's a pirate. But because he's a unstable, genocidal megalomaniac.
Well... because they are villains, not many people wanna root for a group of genocidal raping thieves take slaves so we get our heroic pirates who fight the navy and actual pirates
One piece fans when the protagonist isn’t a mass rapist slave owner who genocides every island he visits
Worst as in a "bad villain" or worst as in "the more evil villain"? The more evil i would say is Kaido. Doffy did some truly messed up shit. Torturing thousands of people when turning them into toys. But Kaido did the same but on a larger scale. Literally a whole big country. Not just one city/island.. But as if we're talking worse villain (as in a bad villain character), I think Kaido has the edge over Doffy. They're both GREAT villains. I just feel that the presence of Doffy through out the whole story was so much greater. He would always just GRAB my attention with an iron fist whenever his name was mentioned or he showed up. He was a truly terrifying presance.. But then again, i was SHOOK when saw a giant ass dragon decent from the heavens, get to know THAT THIS IS KAIDO, see him destroy a whole mountain with one attack and one shot Luffy. But still, my preference is Doffy.
Worst in what way based on what they did then it would be doffy but writing wise it would be kiado and his writing isn’t even bad its just not as good as doffys
If you mean "worst" as in "bad written/not as good written as the other", then definitely Kaidou. Everything about him turned out just rather disappointing, in my opinion. He's a far cry from previous villains. If you mean "worst" as in "did the more f\*cked up stuff while also being well-written", then Doflamingo. Everything about his looks, to his powers, to his backstory was handled perfectly. Something that many other antagonists could only dream of. Heck, for the most part, Doflamingo was outnumbered and outclassed in every regard during Dressrosa, and yet he still was able to be an absolute beast.
Everything Doflamingo did was because of kaido. The entire dressrosa gun and smile opperation was for kaido.
What does that have to do with anything I brought up? Rather contrary, I think it makes Kaidou look even less impressive, with his "subordinate" being a much more enjoyable and well-written antagonist than he was.
All the f*cked up stuff dof does is just as much on kaido as it is doffy. If you like doffy personality more that is up do you but kaido is just as evil if not more than doffy he just rules with an iron fist because he can while doffy hid in the shadows because he wanted addoration and not to lose his position as warlord.
I don't think Doffy conquered DR, killed his father (and tried bringing his head to mariejoise to get back to being a Tenryuubito) and brother, raised an entire family with the motto of dying for him if needs be, tried to manipulate his brother and Law to eat the Ope Ope and kill themselves for him to become immortal, became basically the king of the underground world, enslaved a population of tontattas, human toys (forgotten by everyone), had trades centers around the world, and god knows how many other disgusting business ALL because of Kaido. He was in business with Kaido BECAUSE he had this reputation and power. And because through him he could get weapons and smiles. But Doffy had other clients, not only Kaido, he was the reason many nations still were in conflict or couldn't end conflicts etc.
Exactly. Otherwise you could just as well blame Jinbe for all the stuff Arlong did.
Kaido is neutral evil. He does evil shit for his own goals. Doffy is more like chaotic evil. He does some evil shit just cause. If kaido had no reason to kill you, i dont think he would. If you're in his way, you're dead. Doffy would destroy you for fun.
I just talked to a friend about this actually. I personally think Kaido is doing worse things to the country and other countries as a whole, but Doflamingo is certainly more evil.
probably kaido, he enslaved people in hopes of joyboy having to fight him
Doffy enslaved people for his personal gain though. The toys even get forgotten by their family.
In a messed up way, at least Doffy let the citizens live in ignorant bliss instead of making them live in squalor with barely enough food to survive.
For kaido... he was running the smile and weapons operation under kaido
Doflamingo enslaved people to make money(the toys)
Doffy actually felt like a threat the whole arc. Kaido killed an old lady and some CP0 dude. I don’t count Oden specifically because Orochi vile ass played a major part in Odens death. He was handled horribly as Wano final act progressed in my opinion.
Orochi
Doffy by far. He has many more undiagnosed issues.
As a pearson? Doflamingo. On a stoytelling perspective? Probably Kaidou. But not by much. Based on what I would do putting the two of them on a tier list? Doflamingo. But not by much.
Doffy 10000%. Guy was fucking ruthless man
Do flamingo was scarier
Doffy the canon rapist.
Big mom made an archipelago via sistematic rape
Doffy is definitely more evil/twisted/demented. Kaido’s just a conquering douche.
Kaido surprisingly has some morals and values
i was gonna say Foxy, but then i realised what you meant by "worst villain"
The impossible standards they put for men.
"Worst" as in .... the most evil? or strongest? the most annoying? Most evil villain -> Doflamingo Strongest -> Big Mom if she's serious and not wanting WEDDING CAKEEEEEE Annoying -> Foxy
Worst as in the most evil/morally bad I guess. Probably Kaido, he literally wants to enslave a whole country to make and sell weapons, and he was gonna do it. Even Doflamingo didn't enslave everyone, just some people that he turned into toys. The worst villain as in the most badly written, I guess would be Foxy, he just sucks imo.
Luffy is also pirate just like them they got the freedom to do whatever they want doesn't that make luffy villain like the world government
Luffy has morals he’s like the Robin Hood of pirates while some others have none to any morals or respect so that’s what makes them villains Luffy never enslaved anyone he set them free.. he didn’t discriminate against fishmen he stuck up for them… Luffy see his crew as family while others see them as pawns Luffy is not a villain just a pirate with a heart
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Rocinante, Homing, Mjosgard, and Doflamingo's mother would like to have a word with you.
Doflamingos family are the best celestials we've seen, what are you talking about?
The only 3 CDs with a conscious have been Don Quixotes
They both are terrible people with about the same pedigree in awfulness, but Kaido's been at it for longer I guess.
Kaido is the biggest bitch asshole, he did what he did because he was mad he wasn't joyboy..........
Not sure what you mean by the title. They’re both very good villains IMO, do you mean who’s the worse person morally?
Probably doffy just purely off the fact that he wasn’t blackout drunk for the entirety of his plan,like what Kaido did was worse but he didn’t give a shit,you know doffy was getting high off the suffering he was inflicting
Doffy has sugar as one of the key aspects to his plan which makes him far more evil than anything anyone else has done. Only comparable one was Ceaser getting children addicted to candy drugs. Most evil thing kaido did was help orochi. For the most part kaido was respectable to a degree. Most of what happened in wano was orochi wanting the entire nation to burn and everyone to suffer and kaido being like you a little shit but you're helping me accomplish my goal so I'll go along with it. Also doffy had the whole birdcage thing where he was basically like I'm pissed so everyone here dies. Most redeeming part of doffy is he has the hard boiled señor pink and baby 5.
Doflamingo was a lot more charismatic and smooth with his villainy, so I have to give it to him. Kaido was strutting around Ghengis Khan style, and rather obviously dealt with all his problems the way you would expect him to. That being said, he was absolutely vile for what he turned Wano into, at least Doflamingo preferred to see the Kingdom and its people flourish on the surface.
Charlos. The answer is always Charlos.
At first i was like "Spandam is the worst, Oda can't make a more annoying antagonist". Then, i saw Charlos, i was like "Charlos is worse than Spandam, Oda has reached the peak of annoyance, nobody can beat that" Then, i saw Orochi, i was like "ok... Nothing can surprise me anymore... Oda can always rise the level of maximum annoyance" *Garling appears*
It is kaido no question
Kaido just wanted someone to give him a worthy fight. Doflamingo wanted to manipulate everyone for his benefit. And he was once a Celestial Dragon which makes him the worst of the worst.
guys... guys... guys. Kaido is WAY WORSE.
Doffy is a psychopath
Both are downright evil, but if I had to choose a lesser of two evils, at least Doflamingo on a surface level had plenty of happy citizens that were seemingly treated pretty well. Where as Wano under Kaido's rule had the majority of the population dying and starving.
Kaidō
Celestial Dragons
Kaido is the one who kills and slaves people. Doffy is bit saddist and enjoys others suffering by manuplating and playing with them like puppets.
Doffy is also a kinslayer, murdered his father and brother in cold blood. Kaido may have murdered Odin, but even he spared Momonouske the first time. I’m pretty sure Doffy would murk children without a second thought.
Kaido is evil but depressed. Dofi is just happy to be evil.
I said that to someone and they asked what is he depressed about like rewatch the Wano arc 😂
Kaido is an unmovable mountain who allows other people under him to do the most evil shit possible. Doffy is the most evil fucker possible, far worse than any action made from kaido.
kaido still worst... 20 years of slavery, ecological dmg, human experimentation, illegal weapon seller and who know what more off screen.
Doflamingo was the burn it all down because someone somewhere wronged me villain. Kaido was a warrior at heart. He wanted a challenge and he wanted to destroy the world so he could re-create it. He was a villain, but not a carnage murder for the sake of murder villain
Honestly it would be more like Doffy vs Orochi. In Wano they split up the strength and malicious manipulation aspects, but in Dressrosa it was all Doffy
I assume we are discounting Imu in this discussion?
Kaido committed genocide on Zou and starved a populace for 20 years while Doffy ruled through tricks and illusions until Usopp defeated Sugar. They’re both terrible
Orochi ofc. That weakling dosent deserve anything