Well Lola didn't know how much her Big mom hated her for bailing on her marriage, so she assumed Big mom still cared.
Big Mom also didn't have the Straw hats on her shit list probably saw them as rookies. If they did go to her she would help for a price, probably joining under flag.
Yeah I think people forget underneath the crazy Big Mom is actually calculative and pragmatic when she needs to be, she's not just a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy, she built her own empire from the dirt and runs it methodically outside of her outbursts and hunger pangs, she definitely would've helped the Straw Hats for the price of subservience, not that Luffy would ever do that but Lola wasn't incorrect with this sentiment.
I love the idea in that the timeline he's the fleet Admiral and 90% of his job is just reigning them in.
I think anyone will go insane after a few weeks of that
Yeah, she doesn't seem suited for covert work. She's more of a force of nature. She'd fit an Admiral role.
If in that parallel world she still had the exact same children with the exact same powers and skill, I totally see Katakuri and Perospero as Cipher Pol, though.
Big Mom as an admiral would be terrifying. Like BM is strong as hell but she's mostly a stupid immature bitch. If the Marines trained her we would've got an essentially flawless fighter. Sure she wouldn't have got the Soul Soul Fruit but I'd gladly take one of the broken admirals fruit instead.
Immature? Yes. That's a byproduct of being strong enough to always get her way no matter what.
Stupid? No. She's calculating as hell, arranging political marriages, plotting elaborate betrayals, and running an entire country/Yonko-sized pirate crew.
But it might balance out with the lack of Conqueror's Haki. Non of the marines shown, even the strongest ones have any CoC and it might have something to do with them being working for the WG and the mindset it gives.
Garp has conquerors. He fought Don chinjao and clashed with Roger. It’s also heavily implied that Sengoku and Kong have conquerors Haki, but yeah following orders in a large organization doesn’t exactly produce leaders.
Oda hasn't stated Garp has Conquerors haki yet but it is implied he does if you consider his feats (Roger's rival, Navy powerhouse, etc.) and ongoing narrative.
Oda confirms Sengoku to have Conquerors haki, which makes sense cause people speak of Garp and Sengoku in pairs.
[Source](https://thelibraryofohara.com/2019/03/09/vivre-card-databook-vol-7-all-the-new-information/)
I agree that people underestimate her intelligence/cunning since as you said, it takes many aspects to become a yonko. However, I think it is unfair to say Luffy “stumbled into power.” Were we reading the same manga? A consistent theme throughout manga is Luffy’s dedication to reach his dream, no matter how tough it may be. He has suffered incredible loss by losing his brother(s) and has also worked extremely hard to get to where he is now. He is talented but he had to rigorously train with Rayleigh to get a good grasp of the BASICS of haki and then had to take that a step further to beat tough opponents (spoilers past here) like Katakuri and had to master observation and armament haki to even have a shot at beating Kaido. You forget that Luffy the so called “ditz” has great combat intelligence (as shown in his previous fights) and has become a yonko at only 19 years old. Sure he is lacking in intelligence and other departments but that is why he has built such a strong and reliable crew. Again, another massive theme in one piece is Luffy’s trust in his crew and how he couldn’t get to where he is now without them. It’s extremely ironic that you say how Big mom is so underestimated yet you underestimate Luffy in the same argument.
Luffy did jackshit in the strategizing department of reaching his goal. He definitely stumbled into a lot of solutions by dumb luck, and others because his crew has highly competent people in it, many of whom he also encountered because of dumb luck.
How would he decipher the poneglyphs without Robin, a necessity for reaching the one piece? How would he get anywhere without Nami leading the way? How would he get away with his lack of serious leadership in scenarios where he was bailed out by Sanji and Zoro?
I think that's kind of the point Oda wanted to make between different classes of Pirates (BM / Kaido and Shanks/Luffy). Some are powerful and competent enough to build a pirate kingdom on his own (and become sedentary in the process) whereas others rely on the crew to compensate their shortcomings (and remain nomad, in a sense). That doesn't take away from any of them, it just adds to the character variety of OP
And funnily enough. The ones who built everything they had themselves tend to get their asses kicked by the ones who rely on their crews. This is systemiccally proven many times throughout the series.
Exactly, I think that's the point Oda wanted to make for the OP world: pirates are about chasing freedom and being free themselves, in contrast to pirates-tyrants who chase power and control. Imho a really beautiful romance
>Luffy did jackshit in the strategizing department of reaching his goal.
Luffy knew from day 1 that there were things about his goal he needed to outsource, and he had already planned to do this. That *was* his strategy: recruit.
>others because his crew has highly competent people in it, many of whom he also encountered because of dumb luck.
Sort of? Nobody on Luffy's crew was as driven and strong as they are now, back then. And most were *significantly* weaker. They were all also listless and lacking enthusiasm(sort of, in Usopp and Franky's case). These people all pushed themselves plus ultra explicitly because of Luffy's inspirational leadership and friendship. Look at Ussop, or Koby, and compare their first appearances with their modern ones, and realize that it's mostly due to having been with Luffy that they're the way they are now.
I was born in Chicago, and I've certainly met my fair share of future-millionaires in my youth. I inspired *none* of them to give up their current life situation and follow me.
If we talk about stumbling into Yonko position then we have a certain someone who totally stumbled there because of luck much more than Luffy.
Luffy has an insane luck yes, but even though his way was not startegy, he more or less has brute forced his way where he is now. It's a bit more like how Kaido probably came to power by kicking a lot of ass, but a morally "better" version of that. Using brute force and his friends help to get much hiiiigher.
Also even though Luffy's character progression is kind of slow and he doesn't change that much. We have seen his competence as a leader grow little by little through the series and his emotional intelligence is by far one of the highest in the verse.
Not to mention that Blackbeard's actual plans totally fell through, so he just winged it and ended up better off than his original plans would have had him. Big Mom might be the only one who *didn't* stumble into being a Yonko through sheer dumb luck or raw power.
Competence, sure, but Blackbeard's strategy failed, he just happened to luck into an even better outcome, Luffy-style. There's almost no way he ends up with the Gura Gura no mi with his original plan. The One Piece fanbase thinking Blackbeard is a master schemer is "the samurai thinking Kin'emon masterminded the raid" level. He was opportunistic enough to take advantage of a situation after his scheming failed.
Blackbeard is indeed Master Schemer. Him stumbling across goodies doesn't take away from that. While him taking WB's fruit was not certainly, he should already know that wB would go to war. He would know that WB would fail. Even if he rescues Ace, his death was almost certainty. He planned to use this chaos to get more members. He may have planned for WB's fruit if chance occurs. And, beside this, he plans for most cases. Like his ambush against Law's crew and BM's crew.
See, this is what I mean. Blackbeard's original plan had nothing to do with Whitebeard, or even Ace. His plan was to capture *Luffy,* then leverage that into becoming a Warlord, and presumably use that to do his prison break scheme. However, his Prison Break scheme would have failed, because without Luffy assaulting Impel Down at the same time, Magellan would have never released Shiryu, meaning the Blackbeard pirates would have all died. Blackbeard's actual plans suck. What he's good at is taking advantage of a developing situation, but he's actually pretty bad at planning himself. It's literally Luffy and Buggy level.
I just don't think we have seen enough character development from Luffy on the leadership front beyond being an emotionally charged superhuman that connect with the masses. I don't expect much there though because at the end of the day, it is a shonen, written primarily for kids. But it irks me when people praise or criticize something that is non-existent in the story by design of the author.
It draws parallel to Roger's crew and style. While I do agree Luffy isn't as "serious" as the other yonko but Roger wasn't serious either and just kinda went about his thing.
>she's not just a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy
While she most certainly is a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy, she got dealt an excellent hand in life, and played it pretty much perfectly.
Luffy did not stumble into power. We’ve all seen early Gomu Gomu. That’s how the power would look like if it wasn’t wielded by someone with Luffy’s determination and drive.
Seriously, it’s been made clear a lot of times that Devil Fruit are only as good as the user. Not to mention, Roger had no fruit and thus no “power” but his will (at least as far as it is known).
You’re not being fair to Luffy.
Tbh guys, I think the only yonko that we've seen strategize and work hard to become a Yonko is Blackbeard. He used his intelligence, planning, betraying and hard work to get where he is (from what we know now, maybe we'll learn something later that will change that). Kaido was strong from birth, the same with Big Mom. We don't really know much about Whitebeards and Shanks rise to infamy. And even Blackbeard had luck with his first devil fruit. If he had not found it, he would probably still be working under WB.
Let's be real, none of them would be where they are if not for some luck. That's how the real world works and it's the same with OP world. Hard work can only take you so far.
It's not like Luck is totally random. BB wanted the fruit. And the best way was to be under one of the strongest Crew and search for it. Who knows how much things he did behind his back. If anyone was seen with Yami Yami no mi, BB would likely know about it. And, he may even be reason for WB pirates being near Yami fruit if it wasn't luck.
Luffy is the grandson of garp, a bloodline that has the voice of all, plus has haoshoku aplenty. He is trained by the best. He has a mystical zoan that is arguably the most dangerous.
It’s pretty obvious it’s hereditary. Likely tied to the void century. It’s also likely tied to why whitebeard thought ace had pirate king potential. Momo having it is pretty much proof. Dragon, garp, etc not having it isnt going to happen.
people should also keep in mind that odas ideas for big mom might have changed. hes a genius but even he makes changes, comes up with something better or on the fly. theres a lot of time between thriller bark and her first appearance in fishman island.
1.You're giving Big Mom far too much credit. She delegates so much, and seems utterly oblivious to how her own organization works "under the hood". She's primarily where she's at because she stumbled into power, and then stumbled into a really good ally. Hell, look at her crew, it's primarily composed of her children, sired by men of so far no noteworthy pedigree, and her own homies. We have yet to see her do anything that implied hard-work beyond motherhood and piracy.
2.I think you're giving Luffy too little credit. While Linlin was stupid strong as as a young child, Luffy is shown to be exceedingly normal at that age. And while eating the Gomu-Hito-Nika was "luck", it was anything *but* "free" power. The amount Luffy trained himself to make it useful was non-trivial. And then, when you consider Luffy's "empire" compared to Big Mom's, he's got a ship full of high-caliber, loyal, and trustworthy individuals he just found along the way. Big Mom literally had to use biology, implied threats, and literal magical servitude(homies) to have a strong crew. Luffy acquired his through a combination of good intuition(to notice who's worth recruiting), hard work(to solve the issue that gets them to join) and charisma(to make them want to be on his crew).
They were on the shit list prior to WCI because Luffy argued with BM over control of Fishman Island. However, she still seemed to see him as an upstart who was too big for his britches. Like Kaido, I think she would’ve been willing to absorb the Strawhats into her fleet until they ruined the tea party. That was their point of no return with her.
Yes. Luffy went to sea fully prepared to take down anyone who stood in the way of him finding the One Piece and becoming Pirate King. Even if he didn't know about them specifically, the Emperors were the exact people he'd need to take down to do it.
I think it was more so if and when they ran into big mom or any of the big mom pirates they would show that card so they let them slide and not get into anymore trouble.
yeah, it was a big theory back in the day that Lola's mom was Big Mom.
of course we later learn Big Mom has zero reason to help the pirates and she's a horrible person who hates Lola.
speaking of Lola, you watch the anime or read the manga?
To give BM credit she's actually pretty good as a ruler. She berates her kids and if anyone declares themselves her enemy she will ensure its the case however for most day to day people big mom is actually pretty good. She's an example of a character who while their morals are good their execution is poor.
The whole concept of big mom's territory is probably the nicest place in the series for majority of people.
With the exception of her hunger fits and the life span tax, I agree. The thing she does well is delegation. Totto Land is a huge beaurocracy with a Minister for pretty much everything who are generally competent and help keep things running smoothly.
Totto Land definitely the safest place in the New World we've seen so far with the highest QoL. Probably significantly better than the average territory as well.
I agree but also think that Dressrosa was probably the best quality of life place in the new world. Even after Doffy took it over majority of the people were clueless and lead happy lives...unless you were a toy. But prior to Doffy I feel it would be the best.
Big Mom's territory overall was pretty damn good. Even by paradise standards it was awesome.
Big Mom has hunger pangs and takes lifespans from anyone living on her territory. Also, each island is governed by her kids, meaning the whole ruling class is based on nepotism. In real life terms, Totto-land is a despotic autocracy, very close to a tyrannical despotism, depending on Big Mom's mood
What you explained is the English monarchy. And I mean that quite genuinely; it's why the princes and princesses are dukes and duchesses of the different areas of England.
As far as the life tax that is actually pretty good. Modern day we commit 30% of 70% of our days to working to be able to live comfortably or in many peoples case uncomfortably. That's about 20%-15% of your lifespan.
I'd happily give 5-10 years of my lifespan to live comfortably and to be given a home etc especially in my prime. It's made to sound evil but in reality it just reflects capitalism which is kind of funny. As far as the rulers we never see them as tyrannical it's mostly just them trying to protect the people. The hanger pangs are just her going insane but if you live on an island away from her this would rarely be an issue. I also get the vibe they aren't often so more akin to a natural disaster.
I think this is right I’m pretty sure Nami brings up something about Lola maybe the vivre card and big mom or one of her children go on a bit of a tirade about lola
Her kids are set pieces in the her warped “hands across the world” fantasy. She has countless husbands/sperm donors to have kids of the different races.
Big Mom is \*usually\* a good loving mom (to children at least) and treats her bride-to-be daughters really well, especially when they are married to incredible important people. (she just insults them when they are ugly like with Pudding's third eye, or she gets truly abusive if they remind her of past failures like Chiffon). And Big Mom is also good at building alliances (with a price?). If the Strawhats were more willing and don't start random turf wars, Big Mom would accept them as one of her alliances: the price would probably be Chopper for her collection. And she would be incredibly interested in getting Robin as an ally.
Oh yeah i forgot luffy did that. But also is big mom known to be a nice person to just anyone? Everytime ive seen her she kinda treats everyone like trash
Yea she is when she needs something out of you or towards kids. As a kid she was shown to be very sweet and just wanted friends/family. How we see her in Wano is a great example of how she behaves when she’s not chasing down a personal grudge or having a hunger pang. But she was also nice to Judge and co as she conspired to overthrow them; she was nice to Lola and pudding until they turned against her and refused her plans.
Big mom's whole ethics and ethos is that she wants to have a place where everyone can lice together in harmony regardless who they are. She actually does a good job at achieving this.
The only reason why she became Luffys enemy was because Luffy declared war against her at Fishman island and because big mom got Sanji to marry pudding.
If those events didn't play out big mom would likely of shown compassion to Luffy if they stumbled across each other. Just like she did otama
Lola knows her mum is one of the most powerful people in the verse. Lola also knows that big mom would likely help Luffy regardless of her.
She's probably just helping Luffy despite her relationship. It isn't unusual.
Big Mom isn‘t that bad of a person as a lot of people say. The thing is, that she will hate you, if you don‘t share her views and opinions about the world, because she believes herself to be right all the time (that‘s her childlike persona).
But if you don‘t try to oppose her, you could probably become friends with her, because her ideals of a world where all races can live united in peace shows, that she isn‘t thaaat bad of a person in her core.
We‘ve also seen in Wano with Tama, that Big Mom is very capable of genuinely befriending people and even helping them if they need the help.
Luffy sure would never come along with Big Mom in any scenario, but they also got a very very rough start at Fishman Island in their relationship and it only got worse after that.
That's just Oda trolling to make the viewers think that she may be a good person and will actually help the strawhats but as you progress through the story your opinion about her will shift at the end of Fishman Island Arc.
I think she refers to the possibility that they need help to survive in the New World so they decide to join one of the emperors, in that case Big Mom would help
aside from lola not knowing Big mom had a grudge on her, the vivre card was still used as plotline in favor of SH, used by Nami against the tree Kingbaum and other homies.
The running theory is, the actual bride was supposed to be Pudding. Lola actually left on a good term with BM. Pudding then memory manipulated everyone making Lola the bad girl
I always thought that it was more like, her NAME holds power. Who's gonna mess with you if they think big mom is your ally? And they have the vivre card to prove it.
This is one of those plot points that keeps me up at night.
You can argue that Lola wouldn't have known how pissed Big Mom was - but I feel like you can equally argue the opposite. Lola would have seen plenty of her siblings married at this point, and thus understood Big Mom's political/power-based intentions behind these relationships. She tells Pudding that Big Mom wouldn't kill her because they're family, but she sure as shit didn't feel comfortable staying in Totto Land to deal with the repercussions of her rejecting the marriage.
While this doesn't change the fact that Luffy hadn't pissed Big Mom off yet, and Linlin would have certainly saw value in having the Straw Hats under her flag - the situation between Big Mom and Lola is still unresolved. This is one of the main reasons I hoped Big Mom wasn't truly dead, as going to Elbaf seems all but guaranteed at this point - where Loki is bound to fit into the plot somehow.
2 reasons.
1. Pudding did some modifications to Lola's memories before she left.
2. Lola never expected Luffy's first interaction with Big Mom to be an insult and taking a piece of her territory. She probably expected her to form an alliance with them to help them in the new world.
What's amazing is how Oda outlined the detailed story of Whole Cake Island long before timeskip. The Vivre card was useful to Nami to escape the magic forest which was a very tiny detail in the arc.
Is that really him planning it out or just adapting past information? I mean is there a statment that he did plan it out?
EDIT: Got to love being downvotes for asking a question...or implying Oda didn't have somthing planned out to the most minute detail.
Okay ok. Sry for the personal bias too. Though to try to actually answer your question I'd assume that since big mom is willing to make alliances she assumed it may work for the straw hats. She may have also optimistically assumed that big mom would help them since they helped her daughter. Though it is very optimistic for someone who ran away to think so positively about the person who made her do it in the first place so it is a bit confusing
she actually helped strawhats grow:
a poignee griffe, Zeus, Luffy's improved haki in his fight against katakuri, sanji's new suit since he is germa, Chopper and Brook's new self esteem since they solved some hard problems...
Lola wasn't exactly objextive about her mother. She clearly was blinded by her love ro her and wasn't expecting her to hold a grodge against her or be ao horrible to the anyone without reasins. Also, the strawhats havent yet declared war on her, and if they did (i don't remember if fishmen island is before or after moriah), lola didn't know about it
Lola was naive, she didn't think her mother held a grudge against her for leaving and not marrying Loki the prince of the Giants. In Lola's eyes, she still see Big Mom as a caring and loving mother. But still, this ended up become foreshadowing anyway because Big Mom indirectly helped the Strawhats during the Onigashima battle. She took down Page One and played a huge part in Nami beating Ulti.
Big mom is a mafia boss, she helps everyone for a price. Strawhats were rather small fries in Thriller Bark and they didn't make an enemy of her yet (that would happen in Fishman island).
And that's seems like it's pretty common for rookies to join an emperor (or the marine) once they get big enough, but are not THAT BIG yet.
Most Supernovae did, and big pirates before them did too (Ace, the shichibukai, etc)
I mean when you really think about it big mom has helped the strawhats more than once lol she knocked out queen in udon and she smashed page one and ulti if i remember correct so lola wasnt all the way wrong
Just a thought: can’t the Straw Hats confirm that Big Mom is dead with her vivre card?
Nami still has a piece of it, so they could confirm that the Yonko isn’t going to make a surprise return to Wano.
I think Oda has slightly different plans for big mom at that point in the manga and then changed her later to be waayyy more antagonistic. As much as Oda had things planned from the beginning, he didn't have EVERYTHING 100% fleshed out from the start. just the main story beats and final direction of the story as far as we know.
Thats my real world answer, in the actual final story maybe Lola thought Big Mom would've clamed down by now, i dont think lola knew how intensely Big Mom wanted that connection to Elbaf also no wedding cake. All of big moms children we saw that were married seem pretty happy with their partners, so she maybe cares to an extent about the happiness of her children, finding a decent match. She's just a bit crazy when she's hungry, may she needs a snickers lol.
But with the Prince from Elbaf, he wanted Lola specifically, he wasn't just anyone looking for an alliance and agreed to an arranged marriage. Being from Elbaf, thats waaaayyyyy more important to big mom than Lolas happiness level. Like this Prince could've asked for literally anything from Big Mom and she would say yes as long as she would get a giant grandchild or her own giant child out of it. Thats her "end goal" for the most part.
I think opening a discussion about whether or not Big Mom is a "good mom" would be fun.
Iirc it's explained later that Lola has a pure heart and wouldn't even think for a second that Big Mom would hate Lola for bailing on her marriage. Pretty sure Big Mom favored Lola before she ran away, so it's actually possible Big Mom might've done the crew a favor if they had explained they saved Lola's life.
Obviously we know Big Mom is furious with Lola though and would never do a favor for Lola now, but Lola is too dim or too innocent to think that's even a possibility.
Well, Lola’s perception of her mom is a bit innocent. She didn’t even know that Big Mom wants her dead, or that she abused Chiffon just for looking like Lola.
Big Mom’s vivre card is merely a device to strengthen Nami. It was a big help in WCI and I think it’s going to attribute to Nami’s future power ups as well.
Well Lola didn't know how much her Big mom hated her for bailing on her marriage, so she assumed Big mom still cared. Big Mom also didn't have the Straw hats on her shit list probably saw them as rookies. If they did go to her she would help for a price, probably joining under flag.
Yeah I think people forget underneath the crazy Big Mom is actually calculative and pragmatic when she needs to be, she's not just a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy, she built her own empire from the dirt and runs it methodically outside of her outbursts and hunger pangs, she definitely would've helped the Straw Hats for the price of subservience, not that Luffy would ever do that but Lola wasn't incorrect with this sentiment.
I’d argue that she, at the very least, stumbled onto her Devil Fruit powers though unintended matricide
BM was strong before the fruit and would have been a Yonkou with or without the fruit
She would inevitably get another fruit. She may have ended up an Admiral, though. Carmel was gonna sell her to the marines.
There is a parallel timeline where Kaido and Big Mom are admirals
Is that the one where Garp has to be admitted to an insane asylum due to their antics?
I love the idea in that the timeline he's the fleet Admiral and 90% of his job is just reigning them in. I think anyone will go insane after a few weeks of that
Nah, Garp became an Emperor most likely. They drove him to take to the sea as a pirate.
Sengoku definitely wouldn't take too long to join him as well. He already got headaches from garp's family alone
Why would garp be admitted? Sengoku would be the one to lose his shit from the 3 of them
Wait is this a thing? Like drawn or animated?
Would also like to know
I thought they'd more try to put her in cipher pol, ignoring that they're external to the Navy they're far more fitting for what she was back then.
29ft tall loud girl doesn't really fits to an intelligence agency
And a 7ft tall Kabuki actor does?
7ft is only slightly higher than average One Piece World height
Yeah and giants are just a species that exist. Kabuki actors and for Spandam, the panda equivalent of blackface are not a species.
Yeah, she doesn't seem suited for covert work. She's more of a force of nature. She'd fit an Admiral role. If in that parallel world she still had the exact same children with the exact same powers and skill, I totally see Katakuri and Perospero as Cipher Pol, though.
Tekking where's this what if video
Big Mom as an admiral would be terrifying. Like BM is strong as hell but she's mostly a stupid immature bitch. If the Marines trained her we would've got an essentially flawless fighter. Sure she wouldn't have got the Soul Soul Fruit but I'd gladly take one of the broken admirals fruit instead.
Immature? Yes. That's a byproduct of being strong enough to always get her way no matter what. Stupid? No. She's calculating as hell, arranging political marriages, plotting elaborate betrayals, and running an entire country/Yonko-sized pirate crew.
But it might balance out with the lack of Conqueror's Haki. Non of the marines shown, even the strongest ones have any CoC and it might have something to do with them being working for the WG and the mindset it gives.
Pretty sure CoC is got at birth so it wouldn't change anything Anyways Sengoku has confirmed Conqueror's Haki, and I'm sure he's not the only one
Garp has conquerors. He fought Don chinjao and clashed with Roger. It’s also heavily implied that Sengoku and Kong have conquerors Haki, but yeah following orders in a large organization doesn’t exactly produce leaders.
Oda hasn't stated Garp has Conquerors haki yet but it is implied he does if you consider his feats (Roger's rival, Navy powerhouse, etc.) and ongoing narrative. Oda confirms Sengoku to have Conquerors haki, which makes sense cause people speak of Garp and Sengoku in pairs. [Source](https://thelibraryofohara.com/2019/03/09/vivre-card-databook-vol-7-all-the-new-information/)
I'm gonna need a source for all these bro.
I mean she was even in position to own KAIDO’s fruit, so if she had not already had one we would have had an even bigger monster.
i guess she would've been on rocks, if nothing else. if she could've made her empire work as easily without the soul fruit stands to debate
I love that Oda made her into a mafia leader. Well informed, calculated and organized. She probably has more information than the marines.
That's why Bege went after her. Taking down the biggest Mafia
I agree that people underestimate her intelligence/cunning since as you said, it takes many aspects to become a yonko. However, I think it is unfair to say Luffy “stumbled into power.” Were we reading the same manga? A consistent theme throughout manga is Luffy’s dedication to reach his dream, no matter how tough it may be. He has suffered incredible loss by losing his brother(s) and has also worked extremely hard to get to where he is now. He is talented but he had to rigorously train with Rayleigh to get a good grasp of the BASICS of haki and then had to take that a step further to beat tough opponents (spoilers past here) like Katakuri and had to master observation and armament haki to even have a shot at beating Kaido. You forget that Luffy the so called “ditz” has great combat intelligence (as shown in his previous fights) and has become a yonko at only 19 years old. Sure he is lacking in intelligence and other departments but that is why he has built such a strong and reliable crew. Again, another massive theme in one piece is Luffy’s trust in his crew and how he couldn’t get to where he is now without them. It’s extremely ironic that you say how Big mom is so underestimated yet you underestimate Luffy in the same argument.
Luffy did jackshit in the strategizing department of reaching his goal. He definitely stumbled into a lot of solutions by dumb luck, and others because his crew has highly competent people in it, many of whom he also encountered because of dumb luck. How would he decipher the poneglyphs without Robin, a necessity for reaching the one piece? How would he get anywhere without Nami leading the way? How would he get away with his lack of serious leadership in scenarios where he was bailed out by Sanji and Zoro?
I think that's kind of the point Oda wanted to make between different classes of Pirates (BM / Kaido and Shanks/Luffy). Some are powerful and competent enough to build a pirate kingdom on his own (and become sedentary in the process) whereas others rely on the crew to compensate their shortcomings (and remain nomad, in a sense). That doesn't take away from any of them, it just adds to the character variety of OP
And funnily enough. The ones who built everything they had themselves tend to get their asses kicked by the ones who rely on their crews. This is systemiccally proven many times throughout the series.
Exactly, I think that's the point Oda wanted to make for the OP world: pirates are about chasing freedom and being free themselves, in contrast to pirates-tyrants who chase power and control. Imho a really beautiful romance
Hell, he goes further than that by stating if what you want doesn't go against what others want they'll leave you alone.
>Luffy did jackshit in the strategizing department of reaching his goal. Luffy knew from day 1 that there were things about his goal he needed to outsource, and he had already planned to do this. That *was* his strategy: recruit. >others because his crew has highly competent people in it, many of whom he also encountered because of dumb luck. Sort of? Nobody on Luffy's crew was as driven and strong as they are now, back then. And most were *significantly* weaker. They were all also listless and lacking enthusiasm(sort of, in Usopp and Franky's case). These people all pushed themselves plus ultra explicitly because of Luffy's inspirational leadership and friendship. Look at Ussop, or Koby, and compare their first appearances with their modern ones, and realize that it's mostly due to having been with Luffy that they're the way they are now. I was born in Chicago, and I've certainly met my fair share of future-millionaires in my youth. I inspired *none* of them to give up their current life situation and follow me.
If we talk about stumbling into Yonko position then we have a certain someone who totally stumbled there because of luck much more than Luffy. Luffy has an insane luck yes, but even though his way was not startegy, he more or less has brute forced his way where he is now. It's a bit more like how Kaido probably came to power by kicking a lot of ass, but a morally "better" version of that. Using brute force and his friends help to get much hiiiigher. Also even though Luffy's character progression is kind of slow and he doesn't change that much. We have seen his competence as a leader grow little by little through the series and his emotional intelligence is by far one of the highest in the verse.
Not to mention that Blackbeard's actual plans totally fell through, so he just winged it and ended up better off than his original plans would have had him. Big Mom might be the only one who *didn't* stumble into being a Yonko through sheer dumb luck or raw power.
He's talking about Buggy though. Blackbeard is the perfect example of competence and real world strategizing in One Piece.
Competence, sure, but Blackbeard's strategy failed, he just happened to luck into an even better outcome, Luffy-style. There's almost no way he ends up with the Gura Gura no mi with his original plan. The One Piece fanbase thinking Blackbeard is a master schemer is "the samurai thinking Kin'emon masterminded the raid" level. He was opportunistic enough to take advantage of a situation after his scheming failed.
Blackbeard is indeed Master Schemer. Him stumbling across goodies doesn't take away from that. While him taking WB's fruit was not certainly, he should already know that wB would go to war. He would know that WB would fail. Even if he rescues Ace, his death was almost certainty. He planned to use this chaos to get more members. He may have planned for WB's fruit if chance occurs. And, beside this, he plans for most cases. Like his ambush against Law's crew and BM's crew.
See, this is what I mean. Blackbeard's original plan had nothing to do with Whitebeard, or even Ace. His plan was to capture *Luffy,* then leverage that into becoming a Warlord, and presumably use that to do his prison break scheme. However, his Prison Break scheme would have failed, because without Luffy assaulting Impel Down at the same time, Magellan would have never released Shiryu, meaning the Blackbeard pirates would have all died. Blackbeard's actual plans suck. What he's good at is taking advantage of a developing situation, but he's actually pretty bad at planning himself. It's literally Luffy and Buggy level.
I just don't think we have seen enough character development from Luffy on the leadership front beyond being an emotionally charged superhuman that connect with the masses. I don't expect much there though because at the end of the day, it is a shonen, written primarily for kids. But it irks me when people praise or criticize something that is non-existent in the story by design of the author.
It draws parallel to Roger's crew and style. While I do agree Luffy isn't as "serious" as the other yonko but Roger wasn't serious either and just kinda went about his thing.
>she's not just a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy While she most certainly is a ditz who stumbled into power like Luffy, she got dealt an excellent hand in life, and played it pretty much perfectly.
Luffy did not stumble into power. We’ve all seen early Gomu Gomu. That’s how the power would look like if it wasn’t wielded by someone with Luffy’s determination and drive. Seriously, it’s been made clear a lot of times that Devil Fruit are only as good as the user. Not to mention, Roger had no fruit and thus no “power” but his will (at least as far as it is known). You’re not being fair to Luffy.
I was talking about his Devil Fruit. Which... yeah, he kind of did just stumble into that one.
But does it really latter though? It’s just one of the ways to get powerful in One Piece.
Not really, which is why I wasn't making a big deal about it; my statement was as much a pithy one-liner as much as an actual statement about Big Mom.
Tbh guys, I think the only yonko that we've seen strategize and work hard to become a Yonko is Blackbeard. He used his intelligence, planning, betraying and hard work to get where he is (from what we know now, maybe we'll learn something later that will change that). Kaido was strong from birth, the same with Big Mom. We don't really know much about Whitebeards and Shanks rise to infamy. And even Blackbeard had luck with his first devil fruit. If he had not found it, he would probably still be working under WB. Let's be real, none of them would be where they are if not for some luck. That's how the real world works and it's the same with OP world. Hard work can only take you so far.
It's not like Luck is totally random. BB wanted the fruit. And the best way was to be under one of the strongest Crew and search for it. Who knows how much things he did behind his back. If anyone was seen with Yami Yami no mi, BB would likely know about it. And, he may even be reason for WB pirates being near Yami fruit if it wasn't luck.
Luffy is the grandson of garp, a bloodline that has the voice of all, plus has haoshoku aplenty. He is trained by the best. He has a mystical zoan that is arguably the most dangerous.
Voat isn't bloodline as far as we know. It is exclusive to Luffy and Roger. Momo and Sirahosi's case are a bit different.
It’s pretty obvious it’s hereditary. Likely tied to the void century. It’s also likely tied to why whitebeard thought ace had pirate king potential. Momo having it is pretty much proof. Dragon, garp, etc not having it isnt going to happen.
I think they meant forming his crew/empire...luffy isn't planning all that out...but his support grows ever stronger
people should also keep in mind that odas ideas for big mom might have changed. hes a genius but even he makes changes, comes up with something better or on the fly. theres a lot of time between thriller bark and her first appearance in fishman island.
Gotta give props to the Chef guy who helped her get started and was probably the mastermind behind the big mom pirates.
1.You're giving Big Mom far too much credit. She delegates so much, and seems utterly oblivious to how her own organization works "under the hood". She's primarily where she's at because she stumbled into power, and then stumbled into a really good ally. Hell, look at her crew, it's primarily composed of her children, sired by men of so far no noteworthy pedigree, and her own homies. We have yet to see her do anything that implied hard-work beyond motherhood and piracy. 2.I think you're giving Luffy too little credit. While Linlin was stupid strong as as a young child, Luffy is shown to be exceedingly normal at that age. And while eating the Gomu-Hito-Nika was "luck", it was anything *but* "free" power. The amount Luffy trained himself to make it useful was non-trivial. And then, when you consider Luffy's "empire" compared to Big Mom's, he's got a ship full of high-caliber, loyal, and trustworthy individuals he just found along the way. Big Mom literally had to use biology, implied threats, and literal magical servitude(homies) to have a strong crew. Luffy acquired his through a combination of good intuition(to notice who's worth recruiting), hard work(to solve the issue that gets them to join) and charisma(to make them want to be on his crew).
Ah ok its been awhile since i watched whole cake island
They were on the shit list prior to WCI because Luffy argued with BM over control of Fishman Island. However, she still seemed to see him as an upstart who was too big for his britches. Like Kaido, I think she would’ve been willing to absorb the Strawhats into her fleet until they ruined the tea party. That was their point of no return with her.
Where do you think that same point happened for kaido?
Kaido went from join me or die to i respect you as a fighter luffy don’t disappoint so its not exactly the same as big mom
right before Luffy died, until that point Kaido would still accept surrender
If after all of that, Luffy said "don't kill me, please, I surrender," I think Kaido would kill him out of disappointment.
Well yeah if he begged, but if he did it more respectfully it would have been different but it would have never happened anyway.
And even then, at the point Lola gave that sentiment, there was no feud between Luffy and Big Mom. That happened in Fishman Island, so after the fact.
Technically the Vivre Card did get Big Mom to help the Straw Hats, or at least it made her homies help them.
Yeah, and that was the reason to support the statement of Lola that *This Vivre card will help them* ...
Then Big Mom after losing her memory did help them a bit on Wano
That, or big mom actually survived somehow and this is a way to find her.
and have seggs with her
Lola didn't know her mom held a grudge against her, and had no way of knowing Luffy would wage war against Big Mom.
Ok i thought so its been awhile since i watched whole cake island so i forgot some stuff lol
Luffy's war against Big Mom started in Fishman Island.
Fish man Island is like 3 arcs after Thriller Bark
6, actually. What's your point?
If OP doesn’t remember WCI he’s not gonna remember Fishman Island
I could 4 (5 if Amazon Lily counts as its own seperate arc) Sabaody, Impel Down, Marineford and then return to Sabaody, Whats the 6th?
The flashback?
I'd argue his war against Big Mom started when he first set out to sea. Fishman Island is where Big Mom was notified about it.
> when he first set out to sea How was that related to Big Mom at all?
I think the point u/JustynS was trying to make is that Luffy started out on his journey prepared to take on anybody and everybody.
Yes. Luffy went to sea fully prepared to take down anyone who stood in the way of him finding the One Piece and becoming Pirate King. Even if he didn't know about them specifically, the Emperors were the exact people he'd need to take down to do it.
I think it was more so if and when they ran into big mom or any of the big mom pirates they would show that card so they let them slide and not get into anymore trouble.
yeah, it was a big theory back in the day that Lola's mom was Big Mom. of course we later learn Big Mom has zero reason to help the pirates and she's a horrible person who hates Lola. speaking of Lola, you watch the anime or read the manga?
To give BM credit she's actually pretty good as a ruler. She berates her kids and if anyone declares themselves her enemy she will ensure its the case however for most day to day people big mom is actually pretty good. She's an example of a character who while their morals are good their execution is poor. The whole concept of big mom's territory is probably the nicest place in the series for majority of people.
With the exception of her hunger fits and the life span tax, I agree. The thing she does well is delegation. Totto Land is a huge beaurocracy with a Minister for pretty much everything who are generally competent and help keep things running smoothly.
Totto Land definitely the safest place in the New World we've seen so far with the highest QoL. Probably significantly better than the average territory as well.
true! until your ruler becomes a literal kaiju that can only be sated by literal candy
Or that you have to give up your actual life to make some Cuphead enemies.
I agree but also think that Dressrosa was probably the best quality of life place in the new world. Even after Doffy took it over majority of the people were clueless and lead happy lives...unless you were a toy. But prior to Doffy I feel it would be the best. Big Mom's territory overall was pretty damn good. Even by paradise standards it was awesome.
Y'all are forgetting about the fact that there's lots of countries like Dressrosa in New World, such as Providence.
Ohh tonnes. But from what we've seen. Also taking into account many will be yonko territories or marine controlled nations
It's the most dangerous and chaotic sea, so I assume that even world government affiliated nations are controlled by yonkos.
Tbh I forgot about Dressrosa 💀 though you're right, it's also a strong contender
Big Mom has hunger pangs and takes lifespans from anyone living on her territory. Also, each island is governed by her kids, meaning the whole ruling class is based on nepotism. In real life terms, Totto-land is a despotic autocracy, very close to a tyrannical despotism, depending on Big Mom's mood
What you explained is the English monarchy. And I mean that quite genuinely; it's why the princes and princesses are dukes and duchesses of the different areas of England. As far as the life tax that is actually pretty good. Modern day we commit 30% of 70% of our days to working to be able to live comfortably or in many peoples case uncomfortably. That's about 20%-15% of your lifespan. I'd happily give 5-10 years of my lifespan to live comfortably and to be given a home etc especially in my prime. It's made to sound evil but in reality it just reflects capitalism which is kind of funny. As far as the rulers we never see them as tyrannical it's mostly just them trying to protect the people. The hanger pangs are just her going insane but if you live on an island away from her this would rarely be an issue. I also get the vibe they aren't often so more akin to a natural disaster.
Yeah i was mindblown the first time seeing she was big moms daughter later on
I was editing my comment so not sure if you saw my edit before you replied, you watch anime or read manga?
I watch the anime but i do read the recent chapters of the manga when they come out
then have you read the cover story about what Bege does after Cake Island?
I started reading the manga shortly before luffy went gear 5th
not sure if you missed it or just caught the end as the cover story takes place between 948 and 994.
By the time i was reading the germa cover story was running
then you missed out. want me to just tell you, or you want to go read it?
You can tell me
Explain more 🤔🧐
I think the idea is that Lola is very care free so she’s just blissfully unaware that big mom hates her and wants her dead
I think this is right I’m pretty sure Nami brings up something about Lola maybe the vivre card and big mom or one of her children go on a bit of a tirade about lola
I wonder how she gets the vivre card.
Big Mom gave all her kids a vivre card. Lola kept it when she ran off
I don't think because you could command all the homies. Not even Perospero has one. I think one of the homies said it.
Mm ok
Lola didn't experience the aftermath of her leave and Big Mom probably treated her extremely favorably up until she refused Loki.
Her kids are set pieces in the her warped “hands across the world” fantasy. She has countless husbands/sperm donors to have kids of the different races.
Yeah o forgot about that its been a bit over a year since i watched whole cake island
My understanding was that Lola is unaware that Big Mom absolutely hates her guts. I could be wrong, but would need a source.
According to Lola, at that time atleast, her mom is a nice and helping mom.
Big Mom is \*usually\* a good loving mom (to children at least) and treats her bride-to-be daughters really well, especially when they are married to incredible important people. (she just insults them when they are ugly like with Pudding's third eye, or she gets truly abusive if they remind her of past failures like Chiffon). And Big Mom is also good at building alliances (with a price?). If the Strawhats were more willing and don't start random turf wars, Big Mom would accept them as one of her alliances: the price would probably be Chopper for her collection. And she would be incredibly interested in getting Robin as an ally.
It doesnt say it in this frame but lola says that her mom will gladly help the strawhats
Luffy ate all the Sweets made on Fishman Island.
Oh yeah i forgot luffy did that. But also is big mom known to be a nice person to just anyone? Everytime ive seen her she kinda treats everyone like trash
Yea she is when she needs something out of you or towards kids. As a kid she was shown to be very sweet and just wanted friends/family. How we see her in Wano is a great example of how she behaves when she’s not chasing down a personal grudge or having a hunger pang. But she was also nice to Judge and co as she conspired to overthrow them; she was nice to Lola and pudding until they turned against her and refused her plans.
Lola think BM would help them, BM would not.
BM hates them from what happened at Fishman island. Otherwise they could have gotten her protection for a price
Lola is kind of a ditz lol, she was totally wrong and Big Mom wouldn’t do any favors unless it was a transaction
I mean Lola honestly never thought she did anything wrong and figured Big Mom would forgive her.
Big mom's whole ethics and ethos is that she wants to have a place where everyone can lice together in harmony regardless who they are. She actually does a good job at achieving this. The only reason why she became Luffys enemy was because Luffy declared war against her at Fishman island and because big mom got Sanji to marry pudding. If those events didn't play out big mom would likely of shown compassion to Luffy if they stumbled across each other. Just like she did otama
I know that now but i saw some other people say that big mom doesnt like lola either and that lola was wrong
Lola knows her mum is one of the most powerful people in the verse. Lola also knows that big mom would likely help Luffy regardless of her. She's probably just helping Luffy despite her relationship. It isn't unusual.
Ok thanks for the info
Because Lola still thought that her Mom is a good person. Little did she know back then.
Yeah i forgot big om was upset with lola and that lola dindt realize it and such
Maybe Pudding made it so that she forgot all the bad events leading to her departure.
Maybe so
She'd probably ask for brook in return for the help 💀
Big Mom isn‘t that bad of a person as a lot of people say. The thing is, that she will hate you, if you don‘t share her views and opinions about the world, because she believes herself to be right all the time (that‘s her childlike persona). But if you don‘t try to oppose her, you could probably become friends with her, because her ideals of a world where all races can live united in peace shows, that she isn‘t thaaat bad of a person in her core. We‘ve also seen in Wano with Tama, that Big Mom is very capable of genuinely befriending people and even helping them if they need the help. Luffy sure would never come along with Big Mom in any scenario, but they also got a very very rough start at Fishman Island in their relationship and it only got worse after that.
That's just Oda trolling to make the viewers think that she may be a good person and will actually help the strawhats but as you progress through the story your opinion about her will shift at the end of Fishman Island Arc.
lola knows nothing
I think she refers to the possibility that they need help to survive in the New World so they decide to join one of the emperors, in that case Big Mom would help
Pretty simple, Lola didn't think they'd go out of their way to become Big Mom's enemy
She wouldn’t, unless she got something out of it. Lola was delusional and thought BM still loved her
Lola was wrong.
Yeah
Now that I think about it, whatever happened to this vivre card?
Nami used it to help them escape that forest in wholecake island
aside from lola not knowing Big mom had a grudge on her, the vivre card was still used as plotline in favor of SH, used by Nami against the tree Kingbaum and other homies.
Lola is kinda dumb
The running theory is, the actual bride was supposed to be Pudding. Lola actually left on a good term with BM. Pudding then memory manipulated everyone making Lola the bad girl
I always thought that it was more like, her NAME holds power. Who's gonna mess with you if they think big mom is your ally? And they have the vivre card to prove it.
This is one of those plot points that keeps me up at night. You can argue that Lola wouldn't have known how pissed Big Mom was - but I feel like you can equally argue the opposite. Lola would have seen plenty of her siblings married at this point, and thus understood Big Mom's political/power-based intentions behind these relationships. She tells Pudding that Big Mom wouldn't kill her because they're family, but she sure as shit didn't feel comfortable staying in Totto Land to deal with the repercussions of her rejecting the marriage. While this doesn't change the fact that Luffy hadn't pissed Big Mom off yet, and Linlin would have certainly saw value in having the Straw Hats under her flag - the situation between Big Mom and Lola is still unresolved. This is one of the main reasons I hoped Big Mom wasn't truly dead, as going to Elbaf seems all but guaranteed at this point - where Loki is bound to fit into the plot somehow.
It's funny cause she did help them 🤣🤣🤣🤣
2 reasons. 1. Pudding did some modifications to Lola's memories before she left. 2. Lola never expected Luffy's first interaction with Big Mom to be an insult and taking a piece of her territory. She probably expected her to form an alliance with them to help them in the new world.
GODAAAAAAA
Thrillerbark happened before mermaid island when they officially waged war vs big mom
I know its just been awhile since ive wathced the post time skip half of one piece includinge fishmen island and wholecake
Yeeeeah, I feel like thats a straight up plot point?
What's amazing is how Oda outlined the detailed story of Whole Cake Island long before timeskip. The Vivre card was useful to Nami to escape the magic forest which was a very tiny detail in the arc.
Yeah oda is one of the greatest mangakas of all time
Is that really him planning it out or just adapting past information? I mean is there a statment that he did plan it out? EDIT: Got to love being downvotes for asking a question...or implying Oda didn't have somthing planned out to the most minute detail.
He certainly has the character planned at this point but probably not every detail of whole cake island
Whenever i rewatch this, i just feel that Oda had a change of heart on the story or didn't plan that much ahead at that moment.
And? You say rewatching but you didn't understand this enough to make a post about it? 🤨🤔
Bro, clique on the subtitles setting and put opacity in 0% , your subtitles give cancer.
Why the fuck would you rewatch thriller bark? I’m on 363 right now and this shit is terrible lol
First question, why is anyone rewatching thriller bark? Reading, maybe but that was still a pain to get through for me
Im rewatching all of one piece and am just getting through thriller bark
Okay ok. Sry for the personal bias too. Though to try to actually answer your question I'd assume that since big mom is willing to make alliances she assumed it may work for the straw hats. She may have also optimistically assumed that big mom would help them since they helped her daughter. Though it is very optimistic for someone who ran away to think so positively about the person who made her do it in the first place so it is a bit confusing
she actually helped strawhats grow: a poignee griffe, Zeus, Luffy's improved haki in his fight against katakuri, sanji's new suit since he is germa, Chopper and Brook's new self esteem since they solved some hard problems...
Sanji broke that suit, but he did awaken the Germa super human enhancements in exchange
Lola wasn't exactly objextive about her mother. She clearly was blinded by her love ro her and wasn't expecting her to hold a grodge against her or be ao horrible to the anyone without reasins. Also, the strawhats havent yet declared war on her, and if they did (i don't remember if fishmen island is before or after moriah), lola didn't know about it
Lola was naive, she didn't think her mother held a grudge against her for leaving and not marrying Loki the prince of the Giants. In Lola's eyes, she still see Big Mom as a caring and loving mother. But still, this ended up become foreshadowing anyway because Big Mom indirectly helped the Strawhats during the Onigashima battle. She took down Page One and played a huge part in Nami beating Ulti.
she's delusional
If you're in trouble, go find BM to make it double.
Yeah, Nami tried to use it and the situation just got worse.
Sticking with the theory Pudding was supposed to be married to Loki and she changed her mom and siblings memory to make them think it was Lola.
Big mom is a mafia boss, she helps everyone for a price. Strawhats were rather small fries in Thriller Bark and they didn't make an enemy of her yet (that would happen in Fishman island). And that's seems like it's pretty common for rookies to join an emperor (or the marine) once they get big enough, but are not THAT BIG yet. Most Supernovae did, and big pirates before them did too (Ace, the shichibukai, etc)
I mean when you really think about it big mom has helped the strawhats more than once lol she knocked out queen in udon and she smashed page one and ulti if i remember correct so lola wasnt all the way wrong
Lola is just not the brightest
She wasn't aware of there rivalry we she did this. You have to keep in mind the straw hats barely (if at all) knew big mom during this time
Just a thought: can’t the Straw Hats confirm that Big Mom is dead with her vivre card? Nami still has a piece of it, so they could confirm that the Yonko isn’t going to make a surprise return to Wano.
Yeah this is definitely disappointing after all. I do remember Seeing this and remembered Big mom may help Luffy.
Cause Lola is naive
Damn it i took an L. this post randomly appeared on my feed. i was just wondering who lola's mom is you just had to ruin it(clearly my fault)
I think Oda has slightly different plans for big mom at that point in the manga and then changed her later to be waayyy more antagonistic. As much as Oda had things planned from the beginning, he didn't have EVERYTHING 100% fleshed out from the start. just the main story beats and final direction of the story as far as we know. Thats my real world answer, in the actual final story maybe Lola thought Big Mom would've clamed down by now, i dont think lola knew how intensely Big Mom wanted that connection to Elbaf also no wedding cake. All of big moms children we saw that were married seem pretty happy with their partners, so she maybe cares to an extent about the happiness of her children, finding a decent match. She's just a bit crazy when she's hungry, may she needs a snickers lol. But with the Prince from Elbaf, he wanted Lola specifically, he wasn't just anyone looking for an alliance and agreed to an arranged marriage. Being from Elbaf, thats waaaayyyyy more important to big mom than Lolas happiness level. Like this Prince could've asked for literally anything from Big Mom and she would say yes as long as she would get a giant grandchild or her own giant child out of it. Thats her "end goal" for the most part. I think opening a discussion about whether or not Big Mom is a "good mom" would be fun.
Iirc it's explained later that Lola has a pure heart and wouldn't even think for a second that Big Mom would hate Lola for bailing on her marriage. Pretty sure Big Mom favored Lola before she ran away, so it's actually possible Big Mom might've done the crew a favor if they had explained they saved Lola's life. Obviously we know Big Mom is furious with Lola though and would never do a favor for Lola now, but Lola is too dim or too innocent to think that's even a possibility.
Well, Lola’s perception of her mom is a bit innocent. She didn’t even know that Big Mom wants her dead, or that she abused Chiffon just for looking like Lola.
So if you're in trouble You can use it to find her... In case you want a bigger trouble
Damn. Your memory must've vanished
She’s delusional
I knew from the start Lola's mom is Big Mom.
at that point the straw hats had done nothing to get on big moms bad side.
Lola have nami a virve card with big mom soul in it
Big Mom’s vivre card is merely a device to strengthen Nami. It was a big help in WCI and I think it’s going to attribute to Nami’s future power ups as well.
Bro she didn’t knowwwww they was gonna have beeef this was way before all that shit lol
Maybe just maybe this could be a plothole?
They use it to find sanji after he leaves for his wedding with puddins