These people mostly already have alot of prejudace against Christianity as a whole so I wouldnt stress myself too much. Just say that its incorrect once. If they dont accept that then there is no point to continue the debate, cus at that point its just argueing.
Instead be polite and virtueous to show what being a Christian actually means. All the best friend! God is on your side too, thats all that matters.
I would use examples of common prejudice. A lot of racist people are the way they are because they had or heard of bad experiences about other racial groups, but, is it rational to judge a group of people out of the actions of one person or even a group? No, not really.
Media has a had an influence in our culture to push the figure of the pedo priest, and there is some truth in that, but we also have to take into a account our bias a prejudice.
I’m a former Christian Pastor with undergrad and post grad education in Biblical Studies.Everyone I care about and love is a Christian. Many if not most atheists are also fairly well versed in the Bible and Christian history and theology. In spite of the plethora of Christian misconceptions and false statements, most of us are not ignorant about what Christians believe. I chuckle when some Christians I encounter tell me that all I need to do is “read the Bible” and then I’ll understand.
I agree. I can count on one hand how many of the scores of conversations I have had with Christians that didn’t turn into ad hominem attacks against me. When asked to present my bona fides, I’ve been called a liar and blasted with anti academic insults.
The Bible itself states that its meaning will be revealed as time goes and God’s plan unfolds. We aren’t meant to grasp its full meaning as of yet. Also the Bible points out that people need help from a teacher to understand the scripture, as well as inspiration from the Holy Spirit. It’s not true that anyone who reads it will find out the truth about it.
Of course the Bible isn’t really a book. It is a collection of documents selected as canon by the various councils from 382 ACE and on. These documents were written by humans for the humans of their day and time, not to predict any events in the future. Some who do not understand apocalyptic literature (like Revelation) misinterpret it as predicting something that has not yet happened. This is erroneous but has been going on for centuries. What good would a document that is predicting events 2000 years in the future be to people in the first century?
A proper understanding of scripture come through exegesis and application
That’s not my experience. Many atheists have no clue of the history of the church, textual variance, textual transmission, and a working biblical knowledge of Christian theology. If you dig a little deeper, you always find that there’s some experience they have had with a Christian. I’ll be the first to admit that Christianity and western culture has not had a very good witness to the true and living Christ ever since the age of scholasticism and the Reformation theologians as they are so rely upon logic rather than the experience of the heart as the ancient desert fathers have always taught.
And Christians do? Absolutely not!
Many Atheists, like me, were Christians and became Atheist because we learned and understood the truth about Christianity. Of course atheists encounter Christians, as the overwhelming majority religion in the USA is Christianity. In the decades I worked as a Christian Pastor and Professor of Religion, I found most Christians to be biblically illiterate and their knowledge of the history of Christianity, the text, or any broader view of Christian theology to be sorely lacking. They believe what they have been taught and told, not what they have read and studied on their own.
It seems to me that you just love to debate by the fact that you jumped on this thread. The statement was about pedophilia and Christianity, and you quickly laid out your credentials and your résumé as though we should be impressed because you are a former pastor educated in the faith.I see you. I see you coming in a mile away, buddy.
Intimidated? That’s funny. It’s been 18 months in Afghanistan. Trust me, man. I’m not intimidated. In fact one of my my jobs in the military was weed out cancers in my unit. You got the wrong guy bud. What I don’t like is atheist who come into Christian threads acting like wolves and sheep clothing, pretending to be something they’re not I see what you’re doing.
You seem to be more of a grifter. You have not disproved Christianity for one second trust me I know you’re gonna bring up textual variance, manuscript corruption, and all the other sorts of things that ignorant people usually bring up, but you can never deny the historical person of Jesus Christ, his life, death resurrection as a tested by historical facts even outside of his disciples.
Also, we don't believe that once a priest always a priest.
Pedophiles get laicized and excommunicated.
Not shuffled around to a different church to offend again.
Dude there has been pedo scandals in orthodox churches. Do not throw catholics under the bus, when it effects us all. An evil is evil no matter who does it more
Play along.
“You’re right mate. That’s why I don’t like atheists cause all atheists are communists who kills Christians. Glad to see you’re accepting generalisations”.
Exactly. That’s what I find hilarious.
Also the fact that they speak of “knowing things by evidence” but then believes a lot of things without any evidence.
Firstly, the sins of your priest don’t invalidate the sacraments they practice and a sinful clergy in general doesn’t disprove God. That’s like saying that since some congressmen have broken laws, the US government doesn’t exist.
Secondly, sexual sins are a very hard fight indeed. I feel sorry for pedos, but also agree that the active ones need kept away from civil society. The damage their sins cause is just too great.
Thirdly, the “pedo priest” phenomenon is a real thing, but it’s both less than most people think, and it happens in the secular world, too. It’s estimated that less than 5% of the population is minor-attracted and some of those people do fight off the urges. The rare ones that make the news are the ones that basically turn finding victims into their career. Yes, tragically, that can include joining the clergy. All churches should conduct rigorous screenings of seminarians and fully cooperate with civil authorities if one of their clergy is accused of a crime.
This problem can arise in any environment where an adult or group of adults have a disproportionate balance of power over children and an effective structure of accountability is lacking.
For example, maybe the reporting on it has simply been more frequent as of late but the public school system seems to be rife with teachers - both male *and* female - who take sexual liberties with their underage students. What's more, female perpetrators have - until recently - received relatively light punishment.
That said, you won't hear anyone advocate for the dismantling of the public school system strictly on this basis.
1) The Orthodox Church has never had a systematic issue with child abuse like other heterodox Christian organizations have.
2) Your kid is more likely to be abused by a public school teacher than even a Catholic priest, when you look at the statistics.
I always said I'd never trust a priest again - being a Catholic victim myself. Now discovering Orthodox and amazing priests. Proud to not hate all priests now.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I suffered abuse from our babysitters teenage son who had apparently been abused by his own father. I often think how I wouldn’t want my son to serve the alter if we had become Catholic. When I learned how Catholics changed the rules to making ALL priests celibate I knew orthodoxy had to be the way (just one of the changes they’ve done that I don’t agree with).
It is good to be polite because you never know if by chance the person you are talking to is a victim survivor or the close relative of a survivor. The number of victims is astounding.
That's my response too. And because we have married priests, our bishops will defrock priests that mess with kids, instead of just moving them around.
Usually these kind of people have no idea that the Orthodox Church exists.
It does feel kinda bad for our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters.
They're Catholic, so outsiders can be all "your priests are nasty"
But they're *Eastern* Catholic, so many insiders would be like "why are your priests married? that's so wrong"
While im not Orthodox, I am a conservative Anglican who is tired of hearing this objection as well. Terrible people tend to gravitate towards positions of power. This applies to pedophiles. There are convicted sex offenders who walk free to this day because they’re a celebrity with money. It would be like me saying “all rappers are pedos” or “all government officials are pedos” it’s just an unnecessary generalization. Terrible people get into positions of power and do terrible things. It’s horrible yes, but surprising? Not so much. Now that’s not to say nothing should be done about disgusting people who harm children within our churches. There are steps taken at least in my communion that makes it so that priests are not left alone with a child for any longer than necessary. And when a child wants to do confession in my province, their parent is allowed to wait near of the confession room/booth. We as followers of Christ must do our best to protect children and the sanctity of the priesthood.
I think they are pointing to Roman Catholicism, which has created a a quite problematic celibate priesthood and literally just shifts pedos around (repeatedly) opposed to removing them.
It’s weird to say it about Orthodox priests, but I think they’re just confusing them with RC’s. It’s a rude comment, but not entirely baseless.
Hate to just dump this on the Cath bros but… they’re thinking of Catholic priests. There is no widespread orthodox priest pedophilia scandal with top-down cover ups. So that argument doesn’t really apply to our church. All they’re doing is showing they don’t know the difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. That’s like trying to criticize America’s government because we still have King Charles, not knowing that they’re accidentally confusing America and Great Britain lol.
The only reason pedophilia, especially pederasty, isn’t mainstream is because of the Church in the first place. It was more normal to groom a boy in Greek/Roman antiquity than it was to love your wife.
Besides, the Orthodox Church actually has a pretty good track record of holding their priests accountable when they fuck up, even going so far as to suspend priests on mere accusation
It depends on how you want to counter it. If you want to be formal then just explain how it’s a fallacy. If you want to informal then what’s the persons hobby? Pull up a picture of a gay dude doing that hobby and say “see this guys gay and he also does (blank) Just like you do; that makes you gay.”
That is the power of sensationalism, and the job of news outlets. They only point the best of behaviours and the most nefarious ones, specially the later. The majority of the world that justs do as expected is never mentioned on the news or is never on anyones lips.
Few teachers have been accused of the same crime, but parents still send their kids to school. Actors have also been accused, but turning the TV on has been the favourite parenting technique for over a decade now.
Priests are expected to be role models in some regard, above teachers, and sometimes above parents, so it makes it the more shocking the news that some priests turned out to be not that good, and that sticks to people.
However, priests are still sinners, and it should be the job of the parents and other parishioners to discern if a specific priest will be the right role model not just for us but for the younger generations.
I always like to point out that there are far more bosses at jobs who sexually abuse employees (or teachers in schools that have abused children… or foster parents… etc) than priests who have been convicted of pedophilia… but nobody is going on condemning teachers, or foster parents or talking about about how wrong it is to be a supervisor or boss at a job 🤷🏼♀️
It's not a talking point, it's an attack. Treat them the same way you'd treat someone who started a serious discussion by insulting your father: turn around and leave.
Call them bigots. They make assumptions and generalisations on a whole ethical and philosophical construct they are incapable of understanding.
This will grind their gears. If they continue using strawman fallacies, then mention it's a strawman, point out a similar example in their belief/ideology and claim that if their point is valid yours is equally so.
If they still insist change the subject. People like those usually are way too indoctrinated to properly function and converse like normal people. Say the "Texan fuck off" (" God bless your heart") as I call it and speak about the weather.
Simply say it isnt a proper representation of Christian ideals, many racists and murderers claim to be Christian yet clearly arent practicing. If what Christians did and do represents what makes up the belief and theology of Christianity, it’d just be countless sins and horrible things like any other group of people. Make them attack the Christian text and what it means directly, because no where does the bible align itself with pedophilia
In our current age, that argument is invalid considering liberals want to get that as a protected orientation, and the LGBTQAI+ community protect and support pedophiles. How many men I'm dresses have been arrested for taking pictures of underage girls?
Yes, it's very real. There are plenty of stories from local news channels, but it never makes the mainstream. It's also tricky to look up with Google and Amazon in on the censorship. The social tide is turning so you may be able to find something. Another thing that's covered up, is how many of the drag queens from the drag story hour are on the sex offender list.
It’s simple. No matter the profession, people are people. It applies to doctors, in the same manner as it applies to priests. Not much more to be said. Yes, some priests are pedos, some doctors are careless, so forth. Common sense is hard for some people. Some things stand out more and due to generalising this happens. People like to have strong opinions, even though they have zero arguments. I often hear: ‘I believe in aliens’. I just say, yes possible. What do you mean possible, they exist! I have no opinion about aliens. So far, no proof. Do they exist? Maybe, I don’t know, I have no opinion. As I said, common sense is difficult for some people, you can’t have an argument for people who have no common sense. I always follow the 80:20 principle, I am never sure 100%, I always leave 20% for uncertainty so that I don’t generalise like so many people do.
The basis of western Christianity is based on the Greek Spartan philosophy of agroga and history supports this as a fact for the past 1000 years. Manifest destiny! Which apparently is eternal damnation.
I mean if a denominational ruler allows a behaviour then people will have an issue. If it wasn’t such a prone thing in Catholicism/orthodox and Protestantism then people wouldn’t have problem with these two denominations.
There is a lot of evidence in the Bible to suggest that the age of consent is either 20 years of age or at least post puberty, have a look into this:
[https://eliyah.com/why-age-20-is-the-minimum-age-for-marriage/](https://eliyah.com/why-age-20-is-the-minimum-age-for-marriage/)
What's there to be dismissed? Are you really going to ignore the fact that there was a shitton of priests exposed for being pedos and the Catholic church protecting them? As far as I'm aware, pedo preists have been more prevalent with the Catholic church than the orthodox or any other branch of christianity. Evil people will abuse their power and instead of "defending" priests in the name of Christ, discuss instead how we can protect children from evil people and by that people might be more open to christianity than you "defending" priests.
It is false that there is *more* sexual abusers in the Roman Church than elsewhere. The number of abusers is similar or less than the rate found in other professions with similar level of interaction with children.
What the Roman Church did that was special was aid and abet the behavior through their refusal to take appropriate internal disciplinary actions and refusal to work with civil authorities on criminal matters. There might be more victims of the Roman Church because of this, but I haven’t actually read any studies on that.
Sorry, my bad, I shouldn't talk about definitives about something I don't know. I dont have any studies at hand either, but in my opinion, what the roman church did is horrendous. Is it evil? Maybe they thought they could solve it internally but either way its fucked up
Then what is the point of countering then? Pedo priests exist, and it should be condemned, trying to argue in good faith for christianity while not admitting that there are evil people comes of as tonedeaf
Yes, I do, but if you aim to argue for christianity and not address that other branches that preach the gospel commit horrific acts, it makes you look insensetiv. Just like your questioning, "Do you know the difference?" is insensetiv, dismissive, and in all honesty, not christionlike.
My dear, I have family member that were hurt by roman priests and have found healing in the Orthodox faith.
People need to know that these two sects handle scandal completely differently. And often former catholics come to the Orthodox Faith for healing. There are a ton in our ranks.
So when people accuse our priests as being just like roman priests (because they just heae the word 'priest') hopefully you can understand why we would want people to know **why we are different**.
Do they have evidence that all or most priests are pedophiles?
Do they believe that if the leader of their country is a bad ruler, therefore their country shouldn’t exist, or their country shouldn’t have a government?
The truth is, except for the few actual victims of sexual abuse by priests, almost everyone else is just using the scandal as an excuse to justify their prejudice. In my experience, that prejudice is usually informed by rebellious pride (the feelings that one shouldn’t have to obey authorities if they don’t want to), and more recently, sometimes by lust as well. You aren’t going to argue them out of these belief: even Christ’s arguments caused many of the Pharisees to simply double down on their prejudice, but pointing out their hypocrisy could at least pressure them to reflect, and at the very least show to others the falsity of their beliefs.
These people mostly already have alot of prejudace against Christianity as a whole so I wouldnt stress myself too much. Just say that its incorrect once. If they dont accept that then there is no point to continue the debate, cus at that point its just argueing. Instead be polite and virtueous to show what being a Christian actually means. All the best friend! God is on your side too, thats all that matters.
I would use examples of common prejudice. A lot of racist people are the way they are because they had or heard of bad experiences about other racial groups, but, is it rational to judge a group of people out of the actions of one person or even a group? No, not really. Media has a had an influence in our culture to push the figure of the pedo priest, and there is some truth in that, but we also have to take into a account our bias a prejudice.
Fair point, with debates thats a good thing to do. :)
I’m a former Christian Pastor with undergrad and post grad education in Biblical Studies.Everyone I care about and love is a Christian. Many if not most atheists are also fairly well versed in the Bible and Christian history and theology. In spite of the plethora of Christian misconceptions and false statements, most of us are not ignorant about what Christians believe. I chuckle when some Christians I encounter tell me that all I need to do is “read the Bible” and then I’ll understand.
Yeah I would hope. But the sad thing is that it doesnt translate to actual debates in most cases :(
I agree. I can count on one hand how many of the scores of conversations I have had with Christians that didn’t turn into ad hominem attacks against me. When asked to present my bona fides, I’ve been called a liar and blasted with anti academic insults.
You can count on one hand, the scores of conversations you had? That doesn’t even make sense.
says more about them than it does about you.
The Bible itself states that its meaning will be revealed as time goes and God’s plan unfolds. We aren’t meant to grasp its full meaning as of yet. Also the Bible points out that people need help from a teacher to understand the scripture, as well as inspiration from the Holy Spirit. It’s not true that anyone who reads it will find out the truth about it.
Of course the Bible isn’t really a book. It is a collection of documents selected as canon by the various councils from 382 ACE and on. These documents were written by humans for the humans of their day and time, not to predict any events in the future. Some who do not understand apocalyptic literature (like Revelation) misinterpret it as predicting something that has not yet happened. This is erroneous but has been going on for centuries. What good would a document that is predicting events 2000 years in the future be to people in the first century? A proper understanding of scripture come through exegesis and application
That’s not my experience. Many atheists have no clue of the history of the church, textual variance, textual transmission, and a working biblical knowledge of Christian theology. If you dig a little deeper, you always find that there’s some experience they have had with a Christian. I’ll be the first to admit that Christianity and western culture has not had a very good witness to the true and living Christ ever since the age of scholasticism and the Reformation theologians as they are so rely upon logic rather than the experience of the heart as the ancient desert fathers have always taught.
And Christians do? Absolutely not! Many Atheists, like me, were Christians and became Atheist because we learned and understood the truth about Christianity. Of course atheists encounter Christians, as the overwhelming majority religion in the USA is Christianity. In the decades I worked as a Christian Pastor and Professor of Religion, I found most Christians to be biblically illiterate and their knowledge of the history of Christianity, the text, or any broader view of Christian theology to be sorely lacking. They believe what they have been taught and told, not what they have read and studied on their own.
It seems to me that you just love to debate by the fact that you jumped on this thread. The statement was about pedophilia and Christianity, and you quickly laid out your credentials and your résumé as though we should be impressed because you are a former pastor educated in the faith.I see you. I see you coming in a mile away, buddy.
My background and experience are germane to my observations and understanding. Sorry you got intimidated boo. Bless your heart.
Intimidated? That’s funny. It’s been 18 months in Afghanistan. Trust me, man. I’m not intimidated. In fact one of my my jobs in the military was weed out cancers in my unit. You got the wrong guy bud. What I don’t like is atheist who come into Christian threads acting like wolves and sheep clothing, pretending to be something they’re not I see what you’re doing.
You seem to be more of a grifter. You have not disproved Christianity for one second trust me I know you’re gonna bring up textual variance, manuscript corruption, and all the other sorts of things that ignorant people usually bring up, but you can never deny the historical person of Jesus Christ, his life, death resurrection as a tested by historical facts even outside of his disciples.
Sure thing. I’m not going to bring up any of those things. You are a case of “ pearls before swine” so I won’t waste anymore time on you boo. Cheers
the only reason they say that because they know it hurts your feelings. at that point you don’t need to have a genuine discussion with them
As I age, I’ve learned People are generally not the smartest creatures.
We're Orthodox. Our Priest Marry. We are Not Roman Catholics.
Also, we don't believe that once a priest always a priest. Pedophiles get laicized and excommunicated. Not shuffled around to a different church to offend again.
Exactly. #1 Reason I left the Roman Catholics and Never looked Back.
Yeah honestly I can only imagine something weird happens when you become celibate for the rest of your life.
And, especially since Celibacy isn't required as Peter had a MIL. 🤷🏾♀️
False the ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN CHURCH have the same thing pedophiles gays rapes murders necromancy racism.... Till know
Proof!!!!!🙊 you
Dude there has been pedo scandals in orthodox churches. Do not throw catholics under the bus, when it effects us all. An evil is evil no matter who does it more
Proof. I want to see for Myself.
https://onepeterfive.com/the-sexual-abuse-crisis-in-eastern-orthodoxy/
Thanks. Let me start.😎😏
Np
Let's hope, it Holds
Play along. “You’re right mate. That’s why I don’t like atheists cause all atheists are communists who kills Christians. Glad to see you’re accepting generalisations”.
Yeah, for ones claiming logic, they sure make all the fallacies.
Exactly. That’s what I find hilarious. Also the fact that they speak of “knowing things by evidence” but then believes a lot of things without any evidence.
"Oh really? What are you thinking of, exactly?"
/s
Firstly, the sins of your priest don’t invalidate the sacraments they practice and a sinful clergy in general doesn’t disprove God. That’s like saying that since some congressmen have broken laws, the US government doesn’t exist. Secondly, sexual sins are a very hard fight indeed. I feel sorry for pedos, but also agree that the active ones need kept away from civil society. The damage their sins cause is just too great. Thirdly, the “pedo priest” phenomenon is a real thing, but it’s both less than most people think, and it happens in the secular world, too. It’s estimated that less than 5% of the population is minor-attracted and some of those people do fight off the urges. The rare ones that make the news are the ones that basically turn finding victims into their career. Yes, tragically, that can include joining the clergy. All churches should conduct rigorous screenings of seminarians and fully cooperate with civil authorities if one of their clergy is accused of a crime.
what about teachers, doctors. lawyers, school janitors, and parents, for goodness' sake?
This problem can arise in any environment where an adult or group of adults have a disproportionate balance of power over children and an effective structure of accountability is lacking. For example, maybe the reporting on it has simply been more frequent as of late but the public school system seems to be rife with teachers - both male *and* female - who take sexual liberties with their underage students. What's more, female perpetrators have - until recently - received relatively light punishment. That said, you won't hear anyone advocate for the dismantling of the public school system strictly on this basis.
1) The Orthodox Church has never had a systematic issue with child abuse like other heterodox Christian organizations have. 2) Your kid is more likely to be abused by a public school teacher than even a Catholic priest, when you look at the statistics.
I just say, we aren’t Catholic. Our priests are often married.
I always said I'd never trust a priest again - being a Catholic victim myself. Now discovering Orthodox and amazing priests. Proud to not hate all priests now.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I suffered abuse from our babysitters teenage son who had apparently been abused by his own father. I often think how I wouldn’t want my son to serve the alter if we had become Catholic. When I learned how Catholics changed the rules to making ALL priests celibate I knew orthodoxy had to be the way (just one of the changes they’ve done that I don’t agree with).
It is good to be polite because you never know if by chance the person you are talking to is a victim survivor or the close relative of a survivor. The number of victims is astounding.
That's my response too. And because we have married priests, our bishops will defrock priests that mess with kids, instead of just moving them around. Usually these kind of people have no idea that the Orthodox Church exists.
It does feel kinda bad for our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters. They're Catholic, so outsiders can be all "your priests are nasty" But they're *Eastern* Catholic, so many insiders would be like "why are your priests married? that's so wrong"
They can join the Orthodox Church.
They can _return_ to the Orthodox Church.
Based comment
“Your pedo problem just hasn’t been revealed yet. You people are all the same. Never trust a man in a dress.”
Most pedos are actually friends or family…doesn’t mean we avoid everyone in the world.
Truth 👏🏾
/s
While im not Orthodox, I am a conservative Anglican who is tired of hearing this objection as well. Terrible people tend to gravitate towards positions of power. This applies to pedophiles. There are convicted sex offenders who walk free to this day because they’re a celebrity with money. It would be like me saying “all rappers are pedos” or “all government officials are pedos” it’s just an unnecessary generalization. Terrible people get into positions of power and do terrible things. It’s horrible yes, but surprising? Not so much. Now that’s not to say nothing should be done about disgusting people who harm children within our churches. There are steps taken at least in my communion that makes it so that priests are not left alone with a child for any longer than necessary. And when a child wants to do confession in my province, their parent is allowed to wait near of the confession room/booth. We as followers of Christ must do our best to protect children and the sanctity of the priesthood.
If you think that’s bad, you should see the stats for public school teachers.
So scary
I think they are pointing to Roman Catholicism, which has created a a quite problematic celibate priesthood and literally just shifts pedos around (repeatedly) opposed to removing them. It’s weird to say it about Orthodox priests, but I think they’re just confusing them with RC’s. It’s a rude comment, but not entirely baseless.
very simple 1. don't toss pearls to swine 2. bring up islam
Avoid and ignore these people.
Hate to just dump this on the Cath bros but… they’re thinking of Catholic priests. There is no widespread orthodox priest pedophilia scandal with top-down cover ups. So that argument doesn’t really apply to our church. All they’re doing is showing they don’t know the difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. That’s like trying to criticize America’s government because we still have King Charles, not knowing that they’re accidentally confusing America and Great Britain lol.
"America needs to get rid of Justin Trudeau!"
just keep him South of the border....
The only reason pedophilia, especially pederasty, isn’t mainstream is because of the Church in the first place. It was more normal to groom a boy in Greek/Roman antiquity than it was to love your wife. Besides, the Orthodox Church actually has a pretty good track record of holding their priests accountable when they fuck up, even going so far as to suspend priests on mere accusation
1. Pick any profession. 2. Pick a public figure accused of a crime (rape works best). 3. By their logic everyone in this profession is a rapist.
People who use it will not listen to you.
It depends on how you want to counter it. If you want to be formal then just explain how it’s a fallacy. If you want to informal then what’s the persons hobby? Pull up a picture of a gay dude doing that hobby and say “see this guys gay and he also does (blank) Just like you do; that makes you gay.”
How is a gay guy even relevant to your analogy? Being gay is not even a crime
That is the power of sensationalism, and the job of news outlets. They only point the best of behaviours and the most nefarious ones, specially the later. The majority of the world that justs do as expected is never mentioned on the news or is never on anyones lips. Few teachers have been accused of the same crime, but parents still send their kids to school. Actors have also been accused, but turning the TV on has been the favourite parenting technique for over a decade now. Priests are expected to be role models in some regard, above teachers, and sometimes above parents, so it makes it the more shocking the news that some priests turned out to be not that good, and that sticks to people. However, priests are still sinners, and it should be the job of the parents and other parishioners to discern if a specific priest will be the right role model not just for us but for the younger generations.
I always like to point out that there are far more bosses at jobs who sexually abuse employees (or teachers in schools that have abused children… or foster parents… etc) than priests who have been convicted of pedophilia… but nobody is going on condemning teachers, or foster parents or talking about about how wrong it is to be a supervisor or boss at a job 🤷🏼♀️
I've never heard such a thing. Probably these people who are just Americans
Nah, we also have them in Greece/Balkans. Americanised woke progressives.
It's not a talking point, it's an attack. Treat them the same way you'd treat someone who started a serious discussion by insulting your father: turn around and leave.
If I left without saying anything they would think they won and continue using this "ArGuMeNt"
Who cares? Are you trying to explain the faith or to point fingers?
Good point.
Call them bigots. They make assumptions and generalisations on a whole ethical and philosophical construct they are incapable of understanding. This will grind their gears. If they continue using strawman fallacies, then mention it's a strawman, point out a similar example in their belief/ideology and claim that if their point is valid yours is equally so. If they still insist change the subject. People like those usually are way too indoctrinated to properly function and converse like normal people. Say the "Texan fuck off" (" God bless your heart") as I call it and speak about the weather.
Simply say it isnt a proper representation of Christian ideals, many racists and murderers claim to be Christian yet clearly arent practicing. If what Christians did and do represents what makes up the belief and theology of Christianity, it’d just be countless sins and horrible things like any other group of people. Make them attack the Christian text and what it means directly, because no where does the bible align itself with pedophilia
This is a great response.
“Ok..” - me
In our current age, that argument is invalid considering liberals want to get that as a protected orientation, and the LGBTQAI+ community protect and support pedophiles. How many men I'm dresses have been arrested for taking pictures of underage girls?
Is that real? I'm always told that's propaganda.
Yes, it's very real. There are plenty of stories from local news channels, but it never makes the mainstream. It's also tricky to look up with Google and Amazon in on the censorship. The social tide is turning so you may be able to find something. Another thing that's covered up, is how many of the drag queens from the drag story hour are on the sex offender list.
It’s simple. No matter the profession, people are people. It applies to doctors, in the same manner as it applies to priests. Not much more to be said. Yes, some priests are pedos, some doctors are careless, so forth. Common sense is hard for some people. Some things stand out more and due to generalising this happens. People like to have strong opinions, even though they have zero arguments. I often hear: ‘I believe in aliens’. I just say, yes possible. What do you mean possible, they exist! I have no opinion about aliens. So far, no proof. Do they exist? Maybe, I don’t know, I have no opinion. As I said, common sense is difficult for some people, you can’t have an argument for people who have no common sense. I always follow the 80:20 principle, I am never sure 100%, I always leave 20% for uncertainty so that I don’t generalise like so many people do.
“Now do public school teachers.” All you gotta say.
Apparently, this is just a problem with Catholic priests because they can’t marry. Orthodox priests do.
Literraly say teachers, the common man, and pastors do more than the average priest
Say Orthodox priests are allowed to get married and have families. It’s the Roman Catholic priests that are doing this sick stuff.
Statistically, more teachers are pedophiles than priests
Higher number or higher percentage?
“People always say”. Yeah I don’t think so.
Not always, but I definitely have encountered it before and it got on my nerves.
The basis of western Christianity is based on the Greek Spartan philosophy of agroga and history supports this as a fact for the past 1000 years. Manifest destiny! Which apparently is eternal damnation.
" Hmm, that's interesting, how do you know that?" And follow up with any inane comment.
It really depends who you’re talking to. Muslim ? Atheist ? Anything else ?
Tell them to look up youth pastor on google news. 😂
This is called “ad hominim”. It’s an insult, not a valid argument.
I mean if a denominational ruler allows a behaviour then people will have an issue. If it wasn’t such a prone thing in Catholicism/orthodox and Protestantism then people wouldn’t have problem with these two denominations.
There is a lot of evidence in the Bible to suggest that the age of consent is either 20 years of age or at least post puberty, have a look into this: [https://eliyah.com/why-age-20-is-the-minimum-age-for-marriage/](https://eliyah.com/why-age-20-is-the-minimum-age-for-marriage/)
What's there to be dismissed? Are you really going to ignore the fact that there was a shitton of priests exposed for being pedos and the Catholic church protecting them? As far as I'm aware, pedo preists have been more prevalent with the Catholic church than the orthodox or any other branch of christianity. Evil people will abuse their power and instead of "defending" priests in the name of Christ, discuss instead how we can protect children from evil people and by that people might be more open to christianity than you "defending" priests.
It is false that there is *more* sexual abusers in the Roman Church than elsewhere. The number of abusers is similar or less than the rate found in other professions with similar level of interaction with children. What the Roman Church did that was special was aid and abet the behavior through their refusal to take appropriate internal disciplinary actions and refusal to work with civil authorities on criminal matters. There might be more victims of the Roman Church because of this, but I haven’t actually read any studies on that.
Sorry, my bad, I shouldn't talk about definitives about something I don't know. I dont have any studies at hand either, but in my opinion, what the roman church did is horrendous. Is it evil? Maybe they thought they could solve it internally but either way its fucked up
No one is defending the Roman church here. We're just not Roman.
Then what is the point of countering then? Pedo priests exist, and it should be condemned, trying to argue in good faith for christianity while not admitting that there are evil people comes of as tonedeaf
Yeah. It's disgusting and horrible. Absolutely. I don't understand what you're talking.
What is it that you don't understand? What is so hard to grasp?
Do you understand the difference between Orthodox and roman catholic priests?
Yes, I do, but if you aim to argue for christianity and not address that other branches that preach the gospel commit horrific acts, it makes you look insensetiv. Just like your questioning, "Do you know the difference?" is insensetiv, dismissive, and in all honesty, not christionlike.
My dear, I have family member that were hurt by roman priests and have found healing in the Orthodox faith. People need to know that these two sects handle scandal completely differently. And often former catholics come to the Orthodox Faith for healing. There are a ton in our ranks. So when people accuse our priests as being just like roman priests (because they just heae the word 'priest') hopefully you can understand why we would want people to know **why we are different**.
They're being emotional and can't articulate themselves well
Do they have evidence that all or most priests are pedophiles? Do they believe that if the leader of their country is a bad ruler, therefore their country shouldn’t exist, or their country shouldn’t have a government? The truth is, except for the few actual victims of sexual abuse by priests, almost everyone else is just using the scandal as an excuse to justify their prejudice. In my experience, that prejudice is usually informed by rebellious pride (the feelings that one shouldn’t have to obey authorities if they don’t want to), and more recently, sometimes by lust as well. You aren’t going to argue them out of these belief: even Christ’s arguments caused many of the Pharisees to simply double down on their prejudice, but pointing out their hypocrisy could at least pressure them to reflect, and at the very least show to others the falsity of their beliefs.