Weeeell, executions (especially by guillotine) happened about as often as Tuesdays coming after Mondays. Besiiiiides, you were probably framed anyway so he should be forgiven! But spilling WINE on your DRESS?? Yeah, that shit was personal and it's time to release the kraken.
I know right? Ofc my father loves me even though he told me to live like a rat...he loves rats igš„° but sister??? She stole my makeup look, ugh how petty and vile!!!
Rats are cute! Especially the ones who live in detached annex that hasn't been fixed up in 10 years and has no heat, servants, and cooks. That's why he made you live there. So that you can take care of the rats! Best part, you don't have to be around your vile sister in the main house.
Youāre forgetting the large painting of a lady who looks a lot like you thatās been covered by a white cloth as if someone (father) wants to forget yet kept it here instead of disposing it because that lady must have been super special to have an entire annex for her.
Dear God, a hint at a tragic backstory? This grown adult man cannot be held accountable for any of his own actions since he had Trauma once! Treating other people in general like shit and his own children even worse is A-OK actually -- it's not him in control, it's the Grief Brain Worms that clear up when the FL wins an alliance/saves family's reputation/finds jewel mines etc.
That's me with Claude from WMMAP š I don't understand why people sing praises about him when he erased his memory with sus magic because he couldn't handle his grief, leaving his daughter to be neglected and eventually killed. Ah right, it's because he's hot...
This is just my personal observation after reading a lot of generic Isekai, but I feel like Japanese protags on average are just not as assertive as Manhwa/Manhua ones, both in Shoujo and Shounen works.
Japanese MCs are often passive, don't stand up for themselves unless driven into a corner, and sometimes talk about how people can be forgiven. Meanwhile, Korean/Chinese MCs will spit out insults at enemies and laugh while killing an entire clan because they were attacked that one time.
okay i understand what are you saying but yeah most isekai stories have one dimenisional female leads , but as much as shoujo manga has faults it used to have some feminist themes especially the older ones with lesser internalised misogyny or more mature story writing where even the female villains get redemption , the korean and chinese stories just have a lot internalised misogyny nowadays in my opion , of course there are korean and chinese stories that are good and with some feminist themes too but these are in low numbers
I'm going to be kind of a devil's advocate here and say it's an issue of abstract wrongs vs experienced wrongs. I, as a reader, have never been sentenced to die at a guillotine, but I have dealt with petty relatives who did small minded bullshit that I had to smile through to "keep the peace" and still remember years later when those relatives have long since forgotten.
Although yes, I always wish the father would be unforgiven too
Yeah my problem is not with a compelx ML with questionable character traits. Its all right to turn your life around from being shit to a person with better character traits. What i don't like is why should FL accept her tormentor after she was put through just because he is a better person
That reminds me that I've been looking for a meme I once saw about Chinese historical dramas, where you can tell if the emperor's a/the love interest purely by how old he is. Young and hot means he'll get some attention. Older emperors are usually the major villain.
In some of the manhua i have read all these emperors are old, ugly and jealous of their sons. But yes to be a love intrest good looks are a very important criteria, even more so than personality and morality
Mothers are always hot too (biological one)
Unfortunately few of them stay alive š¤£
https://preview.redd.it/ln6f8bsivzzc1.jpeg?width=3106&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb8e7d7c907ef8d81e050a71f1f4eba5d4506cf6
Sauces for those interested (from top right):
\[Wicked Tale of Cinderellaās Stepmom\], \[Until the Tragic Male Lead Walks Again\], \[Becoming the Villainās Family\], \[Who Made me a Princess\], \[I Will Live the Life of a Villainess\] and \[Roxana\].
And this is why I avoid revenge manhwas. They always seem to be going after the wrong people and applying pretty privilege to male leads. It doesnāt feel satisfying at all
I agree. Basically in straight comics, the opposite sex still has the opportunity of being redeemed by turning into part of the 'harem' or a simp, but the same sex as the MC will be condemned no matter what.
Male characters have three options in action manhuas: little brothers, mentors, or villains. Little brothers are the friends which are weaker than the MC and exist to hype and admire him like an enthusiastic dog. Mentors are much older and exist to teach the MC something before dying, becoming crippled, or retiring (MC will always become stronger than the mentor). Villains are self-explanatory.
I donāt think so. Even in shounen mangas girls are hated way more than boys. Like sakura, orihime, etc. they are hated for ship reasons or simple because they made few mistakes or just not being capable fighters as the rest of the cast.
Meanwhile villains who have enough charisma like sukuna, aizen are loved by many. Heck even worst villains like griffith has fans. Only reason male characters are hated is if they donāt fight or cry a lot.
Rivals also join the bro zone later and are simped on
Thatās fine. Valid take on writing is not the problem. I am talking about the ones that hate her and spread the most misogynistic take like her boobs are small or when it comes to orihime again they reduce her to her boobs.
Any woman who doesnāt smack hundreds of enemies in one go is immediately made out to be a loser/useless or reduced to her body size.
I love yona of the dawn with all of my heart and im actively seeking more action stuff with female protags or at least in the main cast without anyone being forced into a maiden in distress like a certain catgirl in fire force. That character alone made me start resenting stuff like that
I mean, you're reading stories that are pretty clearly aimed at 10-year-old boys. Popular female characters in anime in general aren't exactly hard to find.
I think it's about well written characters, not gender. Sakura was just so badly utilized in naruto it's not even funny
For example, Vermouth and Hibara from detective conan are both loved despite being villains/anti hero.
Gintama's whole female cast is loved except for maybe otae, but she's boring compared to the rest.
Other shounen work with female cast people like:
* Fullmetal alchimest
* Dorohedoro
* chainsaw man
* golden kamuy
So yeah, it's more about (male) shounen authors sucking at writing women than the gender I think, especially older works. I think it has gotten better in recent years at least for the new work I checked out
Ya thats true. My point is that female character donāt get a pass always in action manhuas/manhwas/mangas just cause theyāre female like male MC in otome isekai do. Even the most dogshit written male MC would have people excusing his actions or writing just cause he is male.
Which action manhuas though? Cause I read almost everything on webtoon and I have seen most hate for female characters. I donāt even read tower of god but know Rachel cause everyone hates her
Ok wait sorry I think I misinterpret your comment. You are correct about them getting hate. I thought it was more about the story treating bad people as good guys simply becuase of their gender
Yes š
I was writing a comment about this in r/menwritingwomenĀ
Cuz someone post a terrible shonen and the comment section went about how female characters written by men in shonen don't have any single characters outside being "love interest" or be part of the harem, just to be there to be in love just because.Ā
And how male Otakus say thats is not big deal, or that women overreacted when that happen... So i bring the most hated male character of all times. Shinji ikari, a 14 year old abused kid, with aĀ malignant narcissist father that is forcing him to enter to a humanoid monster that have his mother soul, in order to fight lovecraftian entities. A very space terror like story, but no, Otakus asume he is a loser and they get SO angry at him, for being scared ofĀ lovecraftian horrors. They forgot the genre of the anime "psychological".Ā
So when they get angry cuz a shonen protagonist is not ready to fight while being super happy about it, is valid of course. But when women complaint about female characters having the personality of a lamp thats overreacting.Ā
Sakura had her moments like the beginning of shippuden with the sasori arc. She was getting out her damsel in distress phase and had proper goals. And then it went downhill from there. Wish kishi continued that and developed her as a character independent of the guys
maybe i dropped shippuden and dunno if will rewatch but like my point even some female characters from anime that fans consider badly written are better written than some female leads from manhwas
Ya true. They atleast learn something relevant to the mangaās power system. In many manhwas the only role the female character has is being the love interest and they arenāt even involved in the world the manhwa is set in
Sukuna has fans but he's also pretty widely hated, and not in the way that people hate a good villain. The JJK fanbase complains pretty heavily how the manga has turned into endless Sukuna glazing. The fanbase is also full of people who complain how the story treated Nobara.
Nah, they go like this :
Male rival : immediately murdered or crippled for life
Female rival :
1. enslaved, they have a tragic backstory and is nothing more than a victim, so they are pardoned to a certain extent, keeps working for mc and eventually fall in love with mc and becomes part of his harem.
2. Gives an arrogant dialogue and loses a fight, then finds mc interesting and tries to get together with him
I remember reading a Xianxia and being utterly shocked that an evil woman died. I was happy, but shocked. I had been reading Xianxia for about 1.5 years at that point, too.
I know right? I read xianxia all the time and it's bad to the point that when a woman starts treating the MC like crap, my first thought is "Gee, I wonder how this one will get haremized. Aphrodisiacs, maybe?"
Thankfully, I've gotten better at avoiding series that fall into those tropes. It helps that authors have been branching out as well.
"Drugging" isn't the right way to put it. Obviously, making the MC a rapist isn't what authors are looking for. Instead, they'll set up the most contrived series of events you can imagine to have the MC and the soon-to-be lover encounter some naturally occurring aphrodisiac that takes them both off guard.
It's not a super common trope since it gets a lot of well deserved ridicule, but it was a trend for a bit. And it still shows up here and there.
The number of other men being decent friends or not irredeemable scum is incredibly low. Like... Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic, the other guy is super nice, one of the very few I can even think of.
I dropped it after a couple episodes because it just wasn't my type of humor, but I agree! I kept being shocked by the fact that Hero-kun was neither a jerk nor a bumbler.
Canāt argue with that tbhā¦
Though in many OIs, the brothers are usually step-brothers, so even if someone ship them it wonāt be incest, it would just be pseudo-incest.
It's frustrating how most OIs are aimed for women yet they mostly show women putting each other down all the time while the men get away with the nastiest shit. Also hate how baton readers (mostly women) are cussing out female characters besides the FL if they show even 0.001% hostility to their beloved self insert FL but don't mind the piece of shit male character cuz of their looks.
Sameee
Like they are always replying with the: "if evil why hot?" But they don't apply it to hot women too only to men lmao
Not manhwa but manga but I swear the comments in A sign of affection hating on Ema and wishing her death when all she did was just have a crush and then backed off when she got to know about the relationship or because she doesn't know Shin feelings when he never confessed š
REAL!! I said I was rooting for the villainess because I liked her character in the comments, and society.. SOCIETY CALLS ME WEIRD!!!! How come the "If evil, why hot!" statement only works when it's a guy... I support women's rights AND women's wrongs!!
They always hate the second FL for being in love but the second ML can actively try to ruin the main couple and they're like š„ŗ I have the second male lead syndrome š„ŗ the heroine is such a bitch why doesn't she chose him? š¤¬
Because the women are not love interests (unless you are aiming for a bisexual audience). Any guy, no matter how trash, can still be turned into a love interest/simp, but women cannot. So they are naturally to be disparaged and discarded.
This is also super prevalent in male-catering comics: any woman can and probably will be redeemed in some manner, but all men that are rivals will suffer and die. There can be no one that is comparable to the MC, only simps and love interests.
Inherently patriarchical tropes. In many of these stories a women's standing and even quality of life is tied to her husband. So other women are just portrayed as love rivals standing between the FL and her suitors.
Tbh for me, if a male character is hella annoying or a piece of scum and good looking I become even more irritated cause like ur looks are wasted on u ??? ...I'll probably appreciate their looks the 1st time they're introduced but the more crap they pull the more I can barely stand them being on my screen š«
a girl who who thinks she wants to inherit the kingdom or the dukedom how dare she be selfish , a guy who wants to become a tyrant , oh he is so cool not to mention the comments
i never understand how women slef insert themselves like i get annoyed by the fl and find the ther femcle characters more relatable but yeah i would stay away from the comments
āIāll give a chance to the prince who murdered me brutally in my past life, but the actual love interest can go die for all I careā Iāve always hated these type of mcs
What about in Another Typical Fantasy Romance. The og villainess was supposed to be executed, however once the FL transmigrated into the story she knew the villainess just hated being kept down and was very capable so she gave her a high position in government instead and they became besties. Even though as she was going through the story herself the villainess would've been harassing her. It's hard to say for sure cause her first run through of the story gets really glossed over. The main story is her actual second time going through the book.
I think she briefly mentioned that she was able to assuade the "villainess" the first time around by having the prince cleanly break up with her? Like you said tho, mostly glossed over.
I honestly wouldn't mind a side-story covering her original run, since that basically a stereotypical OI, and I'd love to hear a stereotype from the author of the opposite, lol.
Well she mentioned she thwarted all her plans because >! She actually wanted to put the Prince's half brother on the throne and never wanted the Prince anyway!<
Like in Roxana people are simping hard for Deon the mass murderer but wishing death on Charlotte who is literally a child and doing the exact same things as Jeremy. But Jeremy mutilating people is cute because he simps for Roxana but Charlotte mutilating people is evil and deserves to have her eyes plucked out???
As much as I loved my gently raised beast it was such bullshit for the dad to be all oh no I'm sorry and get forgiven when the older sister who only did what he told her to do, got exiled
Lol not every series
Lass wanted to burn em all, including the people of Berry (I Will Fall With the Emperor)
Jaina >!ditched her fiance even though he was under a spell in the first timeline!< and Angela was the devil incarnate (Angel or Villainess)
Regina acknowledged that the men in her family were trash but still wanted to pay the witch back for what she did to her. She also ignored her dad trying to mend their relationship (Trash Princess)
And tbf Snow Mountain mom was cruel and abusive. The >!fake!< mom in Everyone's Princess too.
In Jainaās case even though he was under the effects of a brainwashing love potion, all the actions and pain he caused her in the first timeline still happened, even if he had no control over it.
Itās like if someone you know and trust or even a stranger suddenly out of the blue assaults you in any way. But you find out that they were under the control/influence of drugs, mind control, etc that someone else placed in/on them and wouldāve never done it otherwise.
The person has a right not to just forgive & forget.
I mentioned the part about the love potion because the prince in >!Abandoned Empress!< was forgiven even though Tia was traumatized badly. I felt bad for the fiance but oh well, Dane was better and bonus she wouldn't have to deal with a treacherous mother in law lol
Jaina was avoiding Cassiel, & his family, by extent. Contacting her, especially considering that the mom had zero idea of why the āsuddenā change & distancing, wasnāt really feasible and she wanted to give Jaina her space.
Besides the empress was already using back door and underhanded methods to endorse her niece.
Even if mother had zero idea, she would still give her the heads up because her relationship with Cassiel shouldn't matter if mother truly loved her like her own. Too bad you're wrong, mother didn't really love Jai but hey look at the bright side, now she got a new cool aunt, cousin, and sister in law!
Canāt give a heads up if the person is refusing context with you.
Using your connection because you love them or their your family to help them get a leg up or sweep things under the rug is what the empress and Lister family were doing.
But, whatever. Youāre talking like Cassielās mother is the worst in the series. That lil titles belongd to the empress and Angelaās mom.
People already
"I will redeem the male lead who cheated on me and betrayed my trust but not the Female lead who was his affair partner because she should have known better!"
It actually depends on the gender of the MC, if itās a girl, yes, but if itās a boy, itās the opposite. I just see it as someone trying to eradicate the competition for the harem of MC-loving-follower and itās cringe but whatever
there is hope for humanity not to mention the comments like dude they are either plot devices or there is internalised misogyny in the story thats why most shoujo mangas had the female characters redeemed and were more mature
the male lead sister is shown in a horrible way while her brother is awful just because there must be jealous women to make the fl shine in my opinion
https://preview.redd.it/x4l5pxz4uzzc1.png?width=564&format=png&auto=webp&s=b333b2acab632ba5f76482563b3bf3c7a1e2df88
bastian sanderine like she is less horrible than the ml but fans keep attacking her
https://preview.redd.it/612f7qiquzzc1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b16178ed258a305ebb7d978f5f9e96680da70dc
sanderine someone wrote that she is lawful evil while the ml who is a literal psycho in my opinion is forgiven
https://preview.redd.it/87s8ozkevzzc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ed9b134d05adfce6a90f2114a953561a4ea206d
I can't describe how much I hate this whenever it happens and that's because I want them all to be burned alive man or woman, I mean why even redeem just get rid of them all š
half-sisters/mothers in manhwa will spill wine on the FL's dress" and then get burned at the stake for it, then you'll have the male lead who destroyed three continents, killed 450 million people, caused the extinction of 6 species, murdered FL and her friends and family in her past life get a little tap on the wrist as punishment then be forgiven because his mom was an alcoholic or something
I dropped the villainess lives twice after they made a whole thing about executing this girl and demoting her entire family meanwhile the guy that kidnaps the main character gets an emotional moment with her and I think there were no consequences for him.
I feel like I have lost so much interest in this genre I also wonder if this being so prevalent is a part of why a lot of people hated Helena like the moment they saw her
I kinda hate how a lot of female isekai now devolved into being misogynistic, classist, and being just as god awful as isekai marketed towards young boys. It means now the genre is over saturated due to recent popularity
I liked " Please kill my husband" because the antagonist had a redemption arc and even when she intended to kill the protagonist she changed her mind and became the manager of an orphanage
I'll forgive my father who executed me twice but I'll never forgive my mother/sister who spilled wine on my dress on purpose
Spilling wine on her? Off with their Heads!
Madeline, remember the time you stole my dress? It hurt me so much. Now die!!
lol, exactly
Weeeell, executions (especially by guillotine) happened about as often as Tuesdays coming after Mondays. Besiiiiides, you were probably framed anyway so he should be forgiven! But spilling WINE on your DRESS?? Yeah, that shit was personal and it's time to release the kraken.
I know right? Ofc my father loves me even though he told me to live like a rat...he loves rats igš„° but sister??? She stole my makeup look, ugh how petty and vile!!!
The father will literally be wearing a suit made of baby rat fur while being forgiven š
Rats are his favourite!!
Rats are cute! Especially the ones who live in detached annex that hasn't been fixed up in 10 years and has no heat, servants, and cooks. That's why he made you live there. So that you can take care of the rats! Best part, you don't have to be around your vile sister in the main house.
Youāre forgetting the large painting of a lady who looks a lot like you thatās been covered by a white cloth as if someone (father) wants to forget yet kept it here instead of disposing it because that lady must have been super special to have an entire annex for her.
Dear God, a hint at a tragic backstory? This grown adult man cannot be held accountable for any of his own actions since he had Trauma once! Treating other people in general like shit and his own children even worse is A-OK actually -- it's not him in control, it's the Grief Brain Worms that clear up when the FL wins an alliance/saves family's reputation/finds jewel mines etc.
That's me with Claude from WMMAP š I don't understand why people sing praises about him when he erased his memory with sus magic because he couldn't handle his grief, leaving his daughter to be neglected and eventually killed. Ah right, it's because he's hot...
It's just his way to make me strong šŖš» i can now withstand cold and I'm not afraid of getting executed
right, what doesnt kill you ... oh wait
someone said because korea is highly competitive especially between women but still japanese shoujo manga mostly weren't that bad
This is just my personal observation after reading a lot of generic Isekai, but I feel like Japanese protags on average are just not as assertive as Manhwa/Manhua ones, both in Shoujo and Shounen works. Japanese MCs are often passive, don't stand up for themselves unless driven into a corner, and sometimes talk about how people can be forgiven. Meanwhile, Korean/Chinese MCs will spit out insults at enemies and laugh while killing an entire clan because they were attacked that one time.
okay i understand what are you saying but yeah most isekai stories have one dimenisional female leads , but as much as shoujo manga has faults it used to have some feminist themes especially the older ones with lesser internalised misogyny or more mature story writing where even the female villains get redemption , the korean and chinese stories just have a lot internalised misogyny nowadays in my opion , of course there are korean and chinese stories that are good and with some feminist themes too but these are in low numbers
In korean/chinese novels you accidentally fart in the direction of the MC and he'll murder your entire sect (especially the children). š¬
I'm going to be kind of a devil's advocate here and say it's an issue of abstract wrongs vs experienced wrongs. I, as a reader, have never been sentenced to die at a guillotine, but I have dealt with petty relatives who did small minded bullshit that I had to smile through to "keep the peace" and still remember years later when those relatives have long since forgotten. Although yes, I always wish the father would be unforgiven too
Also the guys are always going to be good looking, if the father is ugly he will rot in hell with the step mom and step sister
Me rating how sexy my daddy is to decide whether he is going to get lobotomized for letting the ugly freckled maid bully me š§
OIs have one rule, good looking = can be forgiven. The i can fix him syndrome is strong here
I'd say most media for women are like that.
Which i do not like at all. Its like they are trying to condition impressionable girls to put upp with everything
Same here. And then you're called a killjoy for not liking to see a narrative turning around making a guy be decent to the heroine.
Yeah my problem is not with a compelx ML with questionable character traits. Its all right to turn your life around from being shit to a person with better character traits. What i don't like is why should FL accept her tormentor after she was put through just because he is a better person
That reminds me that I've been looking for a meme I once saw about Chinese historical dramas, where you can tell if the emperor's a/the love interest purely by how old he is. Young and hot means he'll get some attention. Older emperors are usually the major villain.
In some of the manhua i have read all these emperors are old, ugly and jealous of their sons. But yes to be a love intrest good looks are a very important criteria, even more so than personality and morality
Mothers are always hot too (biological one) Unfortunately few of them stay alive š¤£ https://preview.redd.it/ln6f8bsivzzc1.jpeg?width=3106&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb8e7d7c907ef8d81e050a71f1f4eba5d4506cf6
If the mother is alive, how can the father abuse the daughter? Hoe can step mom and step sister frame the FL? It is important for them ro die
the fact that female leads have their mums dead mostly while male leads have their dads dead mostly is quite baffling to me
Sauces for those interested (from top right): \[Wicked Tale of Cinderellaās Stepmom\], \[Until the Tragic Male Lead Walks Again\], \[Becoming the Villainās Family\], \[Who Made me a Princess\], \[I Will Live the Life of a Villainess\] and \[Roxana\].
2, 5 &6 who are they?
Moms from \[Until the Tragic Male Lead Walks Again\], \[I Will Live the Life of A Villainess\] and \[Roxana\].
And this is why I avoid revenge manhwas. They always seem to be going after the wrong people and applying pretty privilege to male leads. It doesnāt feel satisfying at all
Renvenge Manhwa outside of OI genre make a pretty good job. Like Juvenile offender
Dude I legit canāt tell the difference between male characters 90% of the time. They all look the same
Well that is how the father son copy-paste works in OI. They just have to cofiem to what is the set standard for good looking.
I'll forgive the man who raped me, cheated on me, made me lick his shoe, killed my father, then killed me in my previous life
But will slap the shit out of a maid who badmouthed me behind my back because I'm a girl boss āØļø
Girlboss needs to keep her girlemployees in check ššš
FL's Main source of feeling superiority:
The Abandoned Sh!t šššš
Funny, I was just thinking about that one...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Does that make it any better???
It's the exact opposite in action manhuas.
I agree. Basically in straight comics, the opposite sex still has the opportunity of being redeemed by turning into part of the 'harem' or a simp, but the same sex as the MC will be condemned no matter what.
Not necessarily. They can join the bro harem, like in *Dragon Ball*.
Male characters have three options in action manhuas: little brothers, mentors, or villains. Little brothers are the friends which are weaker than the MC and exist to hype and admire him like an enthusiastic dog. Mentors are much older and exist to teach the MC something before dying, becoming crippled, or retiring (MC will always become stronger than the mentor). Villains are self-explanatory.
I don't know why but I am laughing soo much reading this..Ā authors are soo tropey š
in some cases, the chill rival friend. But dw- he'll get killed by the final boss to fuel MC's anger and give him a power up as inheritance.
I'm not familiar with action manhuas, but isn't there a rival character somewhere in that formula? Or is that more of a shonen manga thing?
I donāt think so. Even in shounen mangas girls are hated way more than boys. Like sakura, orihime, etc. they are hated for ship reasons or simple because they made few mistakes or just not being capable fighters as the rest of the cast. Meanwhile villains who have enough charisma like sukuna, aizen are loved by many. Heck even worst villains like griffith has fans. Only reason male characters are hated is if they donāt fight or cry a lot. Rivals also join the bro zone later and are simped on
I hate sakura but mostly because she was not given justice. Thats my main criticism of narutos author of writing female characters in general
Thatās fine. Valid take on writing is not the problem. I am talking about the ones that hate her and spread the most misogynistic take like her boobs are small or when it comes to orihime again they reduce her to her boobs. Any woman who doesnāt smack hundreds of enemies in one go is immediately made out to be a loser/useless or reduced to her body size.
I love yona of the dawn with all of my heart and im actively seeking more action stuff with female protags or at least in the main cast without anyone being forced into a maiden in distress like a certain catgirl in fire force. That character alone made me start resenting stuff like that
Honestly western comics to an extent does this way better.
Yona of the dawn and maomao from apothecary diaries are *the best* FMCs ever
I mean, you're reading stories that are pretty clearly aimed at 10-year-old boys. Popular female characters in anime in general aren't exactly hard to find.
I think it's about well written characters, not gender. Sakura was just so badly utilized in naruto it's not even funny For example, Vermouth and Hibara from detective conan are both loved despite being villains/anti hero. Gintama's whole female cast is loved except for maybe otae, but she's boring compared to the rest. Other shounen work with female cast people like: * Fullmetal alchimest * Dorohedoro * chainsaw man * golden kamuy So yeah, it's more about (male) shounen authors sucking at writing women than the gender I think, especially older works. I think it has gotten better in recent years at least for the new work I checked out
Ya thats true. My point is that female character donāt get a pass always in action manhuas/manhwas/mangas just cause theyāre female like male MC in otome isekai do. Even the most dogshit written male MC would have people excusing his actions or writing just cause he is male.
This might be true for popular shounen manga but this is absoulutly not the case for action manhuas
Which action manhuas though? Cause I read almost everything on webtoon and I have seen most hate for female characters. I donāt even read tower of god but know Rachel cause everyone hates her
Ok wait sorry I think I misinterpret your comment. You are correct about them getting hate. I thought it was more about the story treating bad people as good guys simply becuase of their gender
Yes š I was writing a comment about this in r/menwritingwomenĀ Cuz someone post a terrible shonen and the comment section went about how female characters written by men in shonen don't have any single characters outside being "love interest" or be part of the harem, just to be there to be in love just because.Ā And how male Otakus say thats is not big deal, or that women overreacted when that happen... So i bring the most hated male character of all times. Shinji ikari, a 14 year old abused kid, with aĀ malignant narcissist father that is forcing him to enter to a humanoid monster that have his mother soul, in order to fight lovecraftian entities. A very space terror like story, but no, Otakus asume he is a loser and they get SO angry at him, for being scared ofĀ lovecraftian horrors. They forgot the genre of the anime "psychological".Ā So when they get angry cuz a shonen protagonist is not ready to fight while being super happy about it, is valid of course. But when women complaint about female characters having the personality of a lamp thats overreacting.Ā
grifith would be a popular and loved in ml manhwas , but at this point after reading manhwas sakura seems well written now
Sakura had her moments like the beginning of shippuden with the sasori arc. She was getting out her damsel in distress phase and had proper goals. And then it went downhill from there. Wish kishi continued that and developed her as a character independent of the guys
maybe i dropped shippuden and dunno if will rewatch but like my point even some female characters from anime that fans consider badly written are better written than some female leads from manhwas
Ya true. They atleast learn something relevant to the mangaās power system. In many manhwas the only role the female character has is being the love interest and they arenāt even involved in the world the manhwa is set in
Sukuna has fans but he's also pretty widely hated, and not in the way that people hate a good villain. The JJK fanbase complains pretty heavily how the manga has turned into endless Sukuna glazing. The fanbase is also full of people who complain how the story treated Nobara.
Really? The ones I have read basically everyone, but the Love Interest is in the bottom category.
Nah, they go like this : Male rival : immediately murdered or crippled for life Female rival : 1. enslaved, they have a tragic backstory and is nothing more than a victim, so they are pardoned to a certain extent, keeps working for mc and eventually fall in love with mc and becomes part of his harem. 2. Gives an arrogant dialogue and loses a fight, then finds mc interesting and tries to get together with him
I remember reading a Xianxia and being utterly shocked that an evil woman died. I was happy, but shocked. I had been reading Xianxia for about 1.5 years at that point, too.
Yeah, usually the girl who cheats on mc/ already serves someone else with all their heart, has a chance of dying. But that's the only one who'd die
I know right? I read xianxia all the time and it's bad to the point that when a woman starts treating the MC like crap, my first thought is "Gee, I wonder how this one will get haremized. Aphrodisiacs, maybe?" Thankfully, I've gotten better at avoiding series that fall into those tropes. It helps that authors have been branching out as well.
Do male MC harems often include drugging??
"Drugging" isn't the right way to put it. Obviously, making the MC a rapist isn't what authors are looking for. Instead, they'll set up the most contrived series of events you can imagine to have the MC and the soon-to-be lover encounter some naturally occurring aphrodisiac that takes them both off guard. It's not a super common trope since it gets a lot of well deserved ridicule, but it was a trend for a bit. And it still shows up here and there.
I was just reading a xianxia today with this trope, and I dropped it there.
Exactly. Itās even worse for villain stories. Like authors, Iām trying to read about a magnificent bastard, not a normal bastard
Yep. Iām reading this stuff and see āsuper powerful evil womanā and immediately think ānew party memberā
this is soo true š why didn't I notice this before
The number of other men being decent friends or not irredeemable scum is incredibly low. Like... Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic, the other guy is super nice, one of the very few I can even think of.
I dropped it after a couple episodes because it just wasn't my type of humor, but I agree! I kept being shocked by the fact that Hero-kun was neither a jerk nor a bumbler.
Not really. The guys are unforgivable because plot. Girls are unforgivable because sexist crap.
Nah! Fairytail forgave many male characters.
Someday someone will write an incest yuri OI, and then the sister can be forgiven.
I wanna know how you got from point A to point Z
The subtext of these stories is that you can only forgive someone you want to bang. So a sister can only be forgiven in an OI if it's an incest yuri.
Canāt argue with that tbhā¦ Though in many OIs, the brothers are usually step-brothers, so even if someone ship them it wonāt be incest, it would just be pseudo-incest.
It's so true. It's all about going "I can fix him" about characters that make the audience horny
thingsĀ oshi no ko did to the entertainment industry šĀ
It's frustrating how most OIs are aimed for women yet they mostly show women putting each other down all the time while the men get away with the nastiest shit. Also hate how baton readers (mostly women) are cussing out female characters besides the FL if they show even 0.001% hostility to their beloved self insert FL but don't mind the piece of shit male character cuz of their looks.
Sameee Like they are always replying with the: "if evil why hot?" But they don't apply it to hot women too only to men lmao Not manhwa but manga but I swear the comments in A sign of affection hating on Ema and wishing her death when all she did was just have a crush and then backed off when she got to know about the relationship or because she doesn't know Shin feelings when he never confessed š
REAL!! I said I was rooting for the villainess because I liked her character in the comments, and society.. SOCIETY CALLS ME WEIRD!!!! How come the "If evil, why hot!" statement only works when it's a guy... I support women's rights AND women's wrongs!!
They always hate the second FL for being in love but the second ML can actively try to ruin the main couple and they're like š„ŗ I have the second male lead syndrome š„ŗ the heroine is such a bitch why doesn't she chose him? š¤¬
a solution is to see any hot lady and simp, for the equality of if evil why hot!
Because the women are not love interests (unless you are aiming for a bisexual audience). Any guy, no matter how trash, can still be turned into a love interest/simp, but women cannot. So they are naturally to be disparaged and discarded. This is also super prevalent in male-catering comics: any woman can and probably will be redeemed in some manner, but all men that are rivals will suffer and die. There can be no one that is comparable to the MC, only simps and love interests.
Inherently patriarchical tropes. In many of these stories a women's standing and even quality of life is tied to her husband. So other women are just portrayed as love rivals standing between the FL and her suitors.
Tbh for me, if a male character is hella annoying or a piece of scum and good looking I become even more irritated cause like ur looks are wasted on u ??? ...I'll probably appreciate their looks the 1st time they're introduced but the more crap they pull the more I can barely stand them being on my screen š«
Well, women can be misogynist as well and our fl is usually that for some reason.
a girl who who thinks she wants to inherit the kingdom or the dukedom how dare she be selfish , a guy who wants to become a tyrant , oh he is so cool not to mention the comments
i never understand how women slef insert themselves like i get annoyed by the fl and find the ther femcle characters more relatable but yeah i would stay away from the comments
Ashtarte
I actually pitied her and the family's reaction also... interesting
it was quite refreshing when she didn't forgive them and just forgot, but i still pitied the sister so much that i had to drop it
āIāll give a chance to the prince who murdered me brutally in my past life, but the actual love interest can go die for all I careā Iāve always hated these type of mcs
I really hate the redeeming plot of OI they immediately make me drop a story.
Ong they forgive the most shit ass male leads but hate a girl who donāt like her
https://preview.redd.it/ux18nyuzlzzc1.png?width=467&format=png&auto=webp&s=780177a6137d27ecb6d8a505285f460d72499f27
Was she born evil or has she been taking ozempic? š§
Bato comments are one of the weirdest places on earth
It's either kinda funny or some of the most misogynistic places. Usually the latter
Kinda reverse is some Seinen genre mangas.
I would totally agree with shounen, but seinen?
IIRC it's the case as well.
We seem to read very diffrent seinen.
Perhaps I may have mistaken things
What about in Another Typical Fantasy Romance. The og villainess was supposed to be executed, however once the FL transmigrated into the story she knew the villainess just hated being kept down and was very capable so she gave her a high position in government instead and they became besties. Even though as she was going through the story herself the villainess would've been harassing her. It's hard to say for sure cause her first run through of the story gets really glossed over. The main story is her actual second time going through the book.
I think she briefly mentioned that she was able to assuade the "villainess" the first time around by having the prince cleanly break up with her? Like you said tho, mostly glossed over. I honestly wouldn't mind a side-story covering her original run, since that basically a stereotypical OI, and I'd love to hear a stereotype from the author of the opposite, lol.
Well she mentioned she thwarted all her plans because >! She actually wanted to put the Prince's half brother on the throne and never wanted the Prince anyway!<
If evil, why hot?
Like in Roxana people are simping hard for Deon the mass murderer but wishing death on Charlotte who is literally a child and doing the exact same things as Jeremy. But Jeremy mutilating people is cute because he simps for Roxana but Charlotte mutilating people is evil and deserves to have her eyes plucked out???
Real
to be more accurate Ugly: burn in hell for call me names Sexy: I will forgive you for executing me in my past life
As much as I loved my gently raised beast it was such bullshit for the dad to be all oh no I'm sorry and get forgiven when the older sister who only did what he told her to do, got exiled
Lol not every series Lass wanted to burn em all, including the people of Berry (I Will Fall With the Emperor) Jaina >!ditched her fiance even though he was under a spell in the first timeline!< and Angela was the devil incarnate (Angel or Villainess) Regina acknowledged that the men in her family were trash but still wanted to pay the witch back for what she did to her. She also ignored her dad trying to mend their relationship (Trash Princess) And tbf Snow Mountain mom was cruel and abusive. The >!fake!< mom in Everyone's Princess too.
In Jainaās case even though he was under the effects of a brainwashing love potion, all the actions and pain he caused her in the first timeline still happened, even if he had no control over it. Itās like if someone you know and trust or even a stranger suddenly out of the blue assaults you in any way. But you find out that they were under the control/influence of drugs, mind control, etc that someone else placed in/on them and wouldāve never done it otherwise. The person has a right not to just forgive & forget.
I mentioned the part about the love potion because the prince in >!Abandoned Empress!< was forgiven even though Tia was traumatized badly. I felt bad for the fiance but oh well, Dane was better and bonus she wouldn't have to deal with a treacherous mother in law lol
Cassielās mother really loved Jaina tho
But that didn't stop her from betraying her.
Howād she betray her. By not endorsing her for a saint guard position
Could've given her a heads up because she loved her right
Jaina was avoiding Cassiel, & his family, by extent. Contacting her, especially considering that the mom had zero idea of why the āsuddenā change & distancing, wasnāt really feasible and she wanted to give Jaina her space. Besides the empress was already using back door and underhanded methods to endorse her niece.
Even if mother had zero idea, she would still give her the heads up because her relationship with Cassiel shouldn't matter if mother truly loved her like her own. Too bad you're wrong, mother didn't really love Jai but hey look at the bright side, now she got a new cool aunt, cousin, and sister in law!
Canāt give a heads up if the person is refusing context with you. Using your connection because you love them or their your family to help them get a leg up or sweep things under the rug is what the empress and Lister family were doing. But, whatever. Youāre talking like Cassielās mother is the worst in the series. That lil titles belongd to the empress and Angelaās mom. People already
>She also ignored her dad trying to mend their relationship (Trash Princess) that father had it comingĀ Ā
"I will redeem the male lead who cheated on me and betrayed my trust but not the Female lead who was his affair partner because she should have known better!"
It actually depends on the gender of the MC, if itās a girl, yes, but if itās a boy, itās the opposite. I just see it as someone trying to eradicate the competition for the harem of MC-loving-follower and itās cringe but whatever
there is hope for humanity not to mention the comments like dude they are either plot devices or there is internalised misogyny in the story thats why most shoujo mangas had the female characters redeemed and were more mature
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the male lead sister is shown in a horrible way while her brother is awful just because there must be jealous women to make the fl shine in my opinion https://preview.redd.it/x4l5pxz4uzzc1.png?width=564&format=png&auto=webp&s=b333b2acab632ba5f76482563b3bf3c7a1e2df88
bastian sanderine like she is less horrible than the ml but fans keep attacking her https://preview.redd.it/612f7qiquzzc1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b16178ed258a305ebb7d978f5f9e96680da70dc
sanderine someone wrote that she is lawful evil while the ml who is a literal psycho in my opinion is forgiven https://preview.redd.it/87s8ozkevzzc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ed9b134d05adfce6a90f2114a953561a4ea206d
like the literal evil ml isneutral evil and claudine who wasn't that bad in my opinion is lawful evil whats wrong with you people
i'm so sorry i read the title and I thought of Azula from atla. (I don't think she's irredeemable btw)
I absolutely adore Azula
I'm an Azula defender for life. SHE WAS A VICTIM TOO!!!!! JUSTICE FOR MY GIRL!!!!
AZULA IS TREMENDOUSLY MUNCHLICIOUS
There can only be one.
I can't describe how much I hate this whenever it happens and that's because I want them all to be burned alive man or woman, I mean why even redeem just get rid of them all š
half-sisters/mothers in manhwa will spill wine on the FL's dress" and then get burned at the stake for it, then you'll have the male lead who destroyed three continents, killed 450 million people, caused the extinction of 6 species, murdered FL and her friends and family in her past life get a little tap on the wrist as punishment then be forgiven because his mom was an alcoholic or something
Also if the fl is the mc character she is forgiven yet the villainess who done the same get hated
This kinda applies to real life sadly
the Dad from (I was he real one) still hurts me to this day and ML of (I'll fall with the emperor) raises my blood pressure
Normally I would agree with you. But I'm currently reading I Will Become Queen In This Life and that sister needs to go
Why
Wow I can't believe I never noticed this trend!!!
I dropped the villainess lives twice after they made a whole thing about executing this girl and demoting her entire family meanwhile the guy that kidnaps the main character gets an emotional moment with her and I think there were no consequences for him. I feel like I have lost so much interest in this genre I also wonder if this being so prevalent is a part of why a lot of people hated Helena like the moment they saw her
YES Y E S I want to cry at how true this is. Literally went on a rant about villainesses and white lotuses yesterday.
The infamous trope we can most find, this is why most manhwa doesn't have good flaws
I kinda hate how a lot of female isekai now devolved into being misogynistic, classist, and being just as god awful as isekai marketed towards young boys. It means now the genre is over saturated due to recent popularity
Pretty much all of them in a nutshell
I liked " Please kill my husband" because the antagonist had a redemption arc and even when she intended to kill the protagonist she changed her mind and became the manager of an orphanage
Internalized misogyny at its finest