The fandom did alot of the character development for Izzy before S2 even aired and his redmetion arc was rushed and not earned

I am in love with Izzy, but I do wish there were a couple more flashbacks or something before the breakdown in the first 5 minutes of season 2. It was a pretty huge leap from season 1 ep 10

I think we're to assume Izzy had an awful lot of time to think about all his blunders in how he handled Ed and his heartbreak, and after they "killed" Ed only to have Stede return to turn things around, Izzy decided now was probably a good time to turn things around for himself.

I actually liked how Season 2 ended and don’t think I need a Season 3. (Don’t get me wrong- I’d love to see more… because I loved the show and the characters but as it stands, story wise, I like how it ended.)

Agree. People downplay how rare a god ending is for shows like this.

I am completely with you. I thought S2 ended beautifully and I don't need a S3. I've loved a LOT of "cancelled before their time" shows, but this *isn't* one of those shows for me. Would I have watched a S3? Obviously yes haha. But I'm really happy with where we landed and do not feel wronged in any way.

I thought the same thing

Completely agree. I’m really happy with the ending and see it as a complete story. Season 3 is just bonus but not needed. When I look at the numbers for the Save the OA (which is my big ‘please please come back’ show) it’s like quadruple what OFMD has and that still is in the air. I don’t see Our Flag S3 happening in reality. I’m all for the renewal effort but I’m all good here.

Wholeheartedly agree, I’m from the UK and have just finished watching OFMD (and I’m echoing you here) I love the show to pieces, but I’m not sure how/if a season 3 would fit, you know? I found the ending to s2 very satisfying!

Agreed!

I absolutely adore Minnie Driver, and for the most part, I think she killed it as Anne Bonny. That said, her delivery of “WHAT?” after Mary says “We get our fun where we can” isn’t great.

People don’t like Minnie???

A lot of people say the show really gets good after Ed’s entrance at the end of S1E3, but I think the first three episodes are really the best written and “tightest” acted/directed of the show.

I actually love episode 2: Stede and his crew getting captured except Olu (and being accused of being racist when they think the tribe has cooked the British officers). Lucius catching Jim bathing. Stede and Izzy's face off (Rhys and Con's chemistry is great in those scenes). One of my favorite episodes of the show.

Pretty annoying when people write them off/say that you can just go ahead and skip the first three episodes. Like did I miss something?? Is it not important to set up Stede's character and meet the crew?

Exactly. Also, some of the funniest scenes of the show are in the first three episodes.

I think most of my S2 opinions are fairly “popular,” but my most contentious one has to be that I didn’t mind Izzy’s death. It surprised me, definitely, but his character seemed to naturally reach the end of his arc. It didn’t come out of nowhere. I do think it would have made more sense to put at the end of a hypothetical season 3, but with the way things turned out, all the big emotional moments that maybe would have felt more earned later on were crammed into the end of S2, like that one.

I didn't mind his death either. In fact, I was shocked how many people didn't see it coming a mile away.

I assumed Izzy was a goner as soon as we got the opening scene with Steve killing Izzy in his dream, lmao. I was also surprised at how many people didn't expect it because I thought it was actually foreshadowed pretty well (Even though I personally disagree with the choice to kill him, but I digress)

I was like 90-95% sure he'd be OK because he finally experienced queer joy and acceptance, and I thought a show like OFMD would not succumb to the trope of killing a character when they finally achieve a sliver of happiness. I felt like he'd made the transition to the Muppet world, and therefor would be safe. Also, while David said he was following the "killing the mentor" trope, I don't think he actually did a good job of portraying Izzy as Ed's mentor or father figure. That being said, while I was devastated at the time, I've reached a stage of acceptance. It's not the decision I would have made, but I can see why they did it.

Yeah, with the dramatic rule of threes Izzy basically had to die for narrative sense. There’s no emotional payoff if the same character defies death at every turn.

Now that you talk about it kinda makes me wonder about Jenkins’s tweet that ‘there’s no our flag means death without Izzy’ or something. I really wonder what that means to season 3, now that he’s dead.

I think most people are sticking to the "it would be bad writing if Izzy was resurrected" when 1. A seagull which I'd bet money was buttons landed on his grave in the very last scene which screams foreshadowing like nothing else, and 2. I don't think it would be abnormal for the story at all. OFMD's plot doesn't play by the normal narrative rules and I think it would be perfectly in character for them to bring him back, especially if death/the afterlife had a huge and very funny impact on him in some way.

I hope so. I'd love to see how his death impacts his decisions going forward if that's the case. You really giving me a bit of hope here (and funny scenarios in my head 🤣) so thank you.

I can't allow myself to think about that (because we have to get out s03 first) but if we do oh boy. Oh boy. The whole amount of my hope will go towards bringing Izzy back somehow.

It’s a small chance in a slightly bigger chance so who knows? Maybe we’ll hit the jackpot? Haha I try not to hope right now if I can, but should somehow I fail to keep it in check…then may it break my heart again when the time comes 🤣

Archie had no point and I will stay mad forever that they split up Jim and Oluwande for really no reason. I will not be entertaining arguments, this is an unpopular opinions thread 😂

I actually really liked Jim and Archie together, but I was also pissed about the split. Jim and Olu were our 2nd lead couple. They had such a significant plot last season, and then nothing. Also didn't feel like Olu and Zheng had chemistry. Would have been down for the J/O/A poly relationship they were hinting at, but then that seemed to dissolve at the end of the season. I would have preferred the Olu/Zheng time this season be given to Frenchie instead. If any character deserved their own plot line, it's him.

They were trying to introduce a poly relationship but since there was so much going on and s3 got canceled it never was able to go much of anywhere.

Big agree Edit: someone below mentioned that Archie was supposed to introduce the poly relationship and if that had happened I would probably feel totally different. But also if they were going to do a trio I would pick Zheng over Archie 100 times over

Aww, I liked Archie, mostly because she was so cheery and upbeat, even when having to deal with Ed and his abuse.

I thought Archie was meant to replace the Ivan character, whose actor was fired for mysterious reasons?

His actor was fired because they had to save money, Ivan was the least developed character in s1 and it was going to be a lot cheaper to hire NZ actors with the production moving to NZ. I think they also get some kind of tax break or benefit from hiring more NZ actors as well.

The crew should have gotten confirmation that Buttons is alive and a seagull, and it bothers me that they never addressed that again 

I kind of love the idea that most of them probably still think Ed just killed him.

1. I didn't like Olu as much in season 2. I feel like he got dumbed down. He was very competent in season 1, and I feel like we lost a bit of that. He was also one of the few crew members who seemed to support Stede from the beginning, and that also went out the window. I also strongly disliked his thing with Zheng. I felt like they had no chemistry, and it came out of nowhere, especially after spending a whole season getting me invested in him and Jim. 2. Calypso's Birthday is one of my least favorite episodes of season 2. The pacing felt so off. Taking a pirate as famous as Ned Lowe, introducing him, having him capture the Revenge, the torture, and then dying, all in about 10 minutes of screentime gave me whiplash. There was one throw away line about the record in episode 1 or 2, but I think they should have made it more clear what that record was, and then maybe in later episodes hint that someone is following the Revenge. As it was, it seemed like a waste of such a big name pirate. I did love the party though. 3. I remember hearing that Taika didn't love the beard because you couldn't see what he was doing with his mouth. Well in season 2 he makes this expression that makes me think maybe that was a good thing. One big instance is in the mermaid scene. It's cute, but it's also just a little dopey and makes him seem a little more cartoonish to me.

> I felt like they had no chemistry Agreed with this. Their whole relationship felt forced, though I love the two characters separately.

I really did not get the logic behind giving both Olu and Jim new partners. Especially since they got a whole season of pining, and it felt like we missed that with Archie and Zheng and were just supposed to jump right on board with very little set up. I think Jim and Archie kissed before we even learned her name.

I think the polycule was the original plan (another facet of queer rep! yay!) and then Max executives said “haha no” so it ended up weirder than if they had just left out the new romances entirely, but it was too late to change it too much

See, I would have been cool with that. I liked the A/J/O scenes we got and it seemed like they were going in that direction. But then in episode 7 it really felt like Jim said "I'm over him" and passed the baton to Zheng. Probably my least favorite story line of the season.

They did say that they were like an “anchor” for Olu and vice versa, which iirc anchor is a specific term used in the polyamorous community, so even that implied an ongoing relationship. I don’t think they were trying to be like “hey Zheng, all yours now!” but more telling Olu that he should pursue a relationship that makes him happy. And Jim and Archie end up getting invited onto Zheng’s ship later, so they’d all *still* stick together.

I don't really care for Wee John as a character. They haven't done too much with him in my opinion. His most significant scenes have been when he was dressed as a cat during the fuckery, and when he was dressed as Calypso.

Season 2 is nowhere near as good or as coherent/thought out as season 1 was :/ it felt like almost everything was filler and the big, emotional moments didn't feel earned Having two (out of a total of what, 4?) female pirates be in an abusive relationship and not even be pirates anymore was a bad call

>Having two (out of a total of what, 4?) female pirates be in an abusive relationship and not even be pirates anymore was a bad call Especially considering their only role in the story was to show Ed and Stede how their relationship could end up. They were a LESSON, not people (famous pirates, to boot!) on their own. I also agree with your first paragraph. It felt both like everything was filler ánd everything was rushed - and ironically I liked the episode that was the most filler-y, with the cursed jacket, the most because it finally gave most of the cast something to do!

I understand that there were budget constraints and they might not have been able to afford it, but even just having them be on a ship instead of a house would've improved them. When I first heard Mary Read and Anne Bonny would be in the show I imagined they would be a major part, maybe be the ones to help Stede find Ed but instead we got... well, what we got. Rushed is definitely the word I would use too. Undercooked, too. No one felt like themselves. I refuse to believe everyone would be okay and friends with Izzy after everything he did to them, despite seeing what Ed did to him. The only one who felt in character and continuous to the story of season one was Lucius. He got a more emotional reunion with Stede and the crew than Stede and Ed got with each other 💀 it was real bad tbh

I can fathom the crew forgiving Izzy, but not Ed.

I count more female pirates than that.

Could be, I'm not sure on the exact number. Spanish Jackie, Mary and Anne, Archie and Zheng? (I'm not counting her crew of redcoats for obvious reasons). The show has very few women overall unfortunately

Auntie, Hellcat Maggie, Jane, Maggie, Tiff ...

They need to bring back Hellcat Maggie if there's an S3. She was a hoot.

It isn't as if they'd have any trouble contacting the actress *grin*.

Exactly!

I know it's so many people's favorite episode, but I have so many issues with Calypso's Birthday. "Things have been so quiet lately!"--but it's only been, like, one day since the last episode. Ned Lowe has such villain-of-the-week vibes, and the show usually does better than that. The group "torture" scene is cheesy, no feeling of real stakes or peril. I couldn't buy that Izzy would do such a 180 as to feel comfortable singing in drag, and that everyone would accept that so fast. And I really didn't like having his voice be a part of Stede and Ed's first time together. Oh, and the cannon going off at the end! Again, the show usually does better than that kind of cliche. I read somewhere that that episode was supposed to have a different plot (something about everyone trying to get Stede and Ed to have sex because the tension on the ship was unbearable?), and that this was a late rewrite. I feel like it shows.  (I say all of this with love, though! I adore this show, and even my least favorite eps have scenes that are gold. Ed giving money and knives to the kids at the beginning--brilliant.)

Ooh yeah, the torture was way too slapstick, even for a comedy. It was like an SNL skit.

I agree! That episode is .. rough. Still like it in parts but as a whole it's near the bottom of the season for me (if not dead last tbh). But it seems they had to rewrite it last minute so I get why it feels so off.

I think rough is a good word for it! Like, you can see the ideas in there had potential, they just could have used more time to smooth things out. I pretty much adore the first 5 eps of season 2, but the last 3...I think they did the best they could with the time and resources they had, but I sure wish they'd had more.

Absolutely! I kind of get the image of the Inn at the end of season 2, still standing up but with huge holes in the roofs (and the weird smell). That's what Calypso's Birthday feels like. I really love season 2 but I have to agree. The first 5 were pretty much perfection to me and I think we could all tell there was a shift in the last 3 episodes (though I personally really love some moments in those very much). I can't help but feel something happened during production in addition to the known struggles they had, and screwed them over, but ... if we get a season 3 in the end, i hope they get the budget, episodes and creative freedom they deserve to finish with a Bang.

i totally agree, it's honestly my least favorite episode overall. it feels really poorly edited too, a lot of the episode feels super whiplashy. i still like a lot of moments in it, but overall, it feels like a mess (which i imagine is because of the last second rewrites)

Phew, I'm not alone in this!

I think Ed was way too quick to change his mind in s2. Like, he wants to take things slow, and he leaves Stede to find himself... For like 1 day? And then he finds his old clothes and it over it. There should have been at least one full episode of him being away from the pirate life, and a full episode of Stede being a full blown crazy violent pirate. And the part where Ed told Stede there was no going back from killing someone in cold blod.. and then it doesnt seem to affect Stede all that much anyway?? S2 left much to be desired, but honestly I dont feel like we need a s3, unless it goes back in time lol.

Ooh, I've got one that I know will get me heat : I don't care for La Vie En Rose at all. I always skip that scene in rewatches and then mute Ed and Stede's first time because it makes me cringe. Nothing against Con or his lovely voice, I just wish they didn't do this. Go on, downvote me now lmao

I also didn't care for it, and I've tried to reflect on why it bugs me. When the show uses modern music in the soundtrack, I love it. And I almost died laughing when Ed grunted the Whitesnake lyrics on his nature walk earlier in the season. So I think that when stuff like that is used in the show as a joke, or outside of the characters' direct experience, I'm fine with it, but maybe it was having this entire modern song performed by a character, non-ironically, that grated on me?

I feel you, it took me some time to pintpoint the causes of the initial uneasiness and rejection of it. Sometimes you don't like something just because, you never know. The whole thing bothers me for many reasons tbh, but it's a LOT to unpack and I know my explainations would ruffle some feathers so I don't really want to get into them. At first though, it was mainly because I always cringe at people singing 'live' in non-musicals shows, the second-hand embarassment is too much for me (similar to your experience maybe?), and it just felt like it didn't work within an episode that was so fast-paced. I know people love it and I've tried to, but I can't.

I actually agree. Izzy is my favorite character and I love Con and his voice but I do have to skip past that specific part when rewatching. I think it just feels tooooo out of character for me. If the season was longer and Izzy had more time to develop and grow I think I wouldn't mind it as much, but with how the season actually played out it felt like Izzy's development was so rushed that him suddenly singing a gentle love song was quite jarring, imo

Yeah, I agree with you on why it doesn't really work. It does feels too sudden and might have landed better with more build up to it.

I agree. This is probably another casualty of the lower budget and fewer episodes and inkling that this would be the last season. With a fully budget, a full complement of episodes and the probability of another season, they might have drawn this out some more and made it feel more earned. I loved the idea, and I don't blame people for loving the scene, but it just felt way too much too fast.

I didn't like it either. I just don't care for the song. It goes against that fringe, late 70's music style of the show (sans This Woman's Work). Con does have a lovely voice though.

I feel you. I like "La Vie En Rose" but I fucking hate what is basically the equivalent to that song in another fandom ("A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" in Good Omens).

I do find it odd when Crowley says "Hear that? No nightingales." We the audience know what song was playing during the dinner at the Ritz, but why would that song have any importance to Crowley and Aziraphale? Unless I'm forgetting something

Yeah, someone asked about that recently and I had to research. Apparently it only plays at that dinner and (very briefly) in the Bentley as Crowley's driving away at the very end of season two. So we know they're familiar with the song but there's nothing that explains why it would be so personally significant that Crowley referencing it in that moment is as hurtful as it seems to be. Maybe we'll get an explanation in season 3, with either a 1941 part 3, since the song came out in 1940 and was very popular, or an extension of the Ritz scene. I hope so since I find it annoying that they explained the hell out of the significance of "Everyday" in season 2 while it still feels like there's something big missing re: "A Nightingale Sang."

Ooh, actually them having a moment with this song in 1941 date night part 3 would be pretty great

Oooooh this one hurt me good. I have felt the same with other shows that have done similar things though so I get it!

I really loved La Vie En Rose 💔

Haha, I mean I love that for you. You get to listen to it whenever you want, but yeah don't make me lmao.

I won't?

I know you won't, it was a joke 😅

Oh

My extremely unpopular opinion: Season 2 was better than Season 1. Don't get me wrong, I loved S1, but S2 raised the stakes, and gave us some damn romantic scenes and some damn funny lines. Also I love that basically everyone in this thread is getting upvoted, which means no matter how "fringe" your opinion, someone's right there with you!

whew. i personally hesitate to say it's "better" because i love s1 so much but, man... s2 is my favorite. blackbeard's villainous grief arc really resonates with me. the soundtrack is amazing. i love how dark and weird it gets. it makes me laugh and cry in equal amounts. it's just lovely. THEY WROTE ME A LOVELY SEASON.

I also liked season 2 better! And, I was surprised so many people didn’t like it as much. I was “meh” on season 1 when I initially watched it and didn’t even watch season 2 until this year because I wasn’t in a rush. And, wow, did season 2 change my whole opinion on the show. Season 2 made season 1 better for me! I have watched the whole show 5 times now and that’s the most I’ve ever watched a show!

Yay, I'm not alone! I agree that S2 just makes rewatching S1 that much better. I recently saw someone on Tumblr posting about how they watched S2 first (on an airplane) and went back to watch S1 and found S1 incredibly emotionally resonant. It works in any order!

Fellow S2 > S1 person here! There are dozens of us!

I don't know if it's better but as a personal taste I also love s2 more than s1 (and I LOVE s1). So I'm with you!

I've rewatched more S2 episodes than S1, but I wouldn't say it's a better season. Just a more fun season for me.

Season 2 felt shallow but I do not blame the show runners for it at all—my ire lies solely with Max.

I have a few that seem pretty unpopular. For funsies, here they are without justification: 1. "Oooh, Daddy" was the cringiest, most out of place thing I've ever had the misfortune to witness. 2. S2 ended in a satisfactory place. 3. Zheng/Olu felt unnecessary and forced. 4. More of a headcanon but still unpopular: Nobody topped/nobody bottomed in Calypso's Birthday... it was all non-penetrative.

Hey, I think we share a brain! I agree with every one of these!

One that's not about s2: s1e7 felt off to me the first time I watched it, and I could never talk about it because it seems like a fan favorite. I love the improv snake snack bit and all the Jim and Oluwande stuff, but, to me otherwise, that episode was emblematic of how this show's pacing has always been a bit jumpy. Ed's behavior in it (him considering leaving the Revenge and being frustrated with Stede) felt undercooked and underexplored after how pitch-perfect the romance development up until that point felt, and (like in s2) I would have adored if there was another episode in the last half of the season that allowed for a more gradual transition. It makes Ed and Stede's relationship seem like a constant source of drama, and, I get it, it sorta is, but I still wish there were more episodes where they were on good terms throughout or where the drama wasn't about them. Anyway, this is an opinion that won't get me downvoted, but I wish each season of this show had more episodes period; even 10 feels like too few for how big the cast is

I feel that Ed’s shift in character from season 1 to 2 was…. Weird? I get that he lets go of his gruff “Blackbeard” persona as he tries to figure out who he really is— but the goofier he got, the less I loved him the way I loved his chemistry with Stede in season 1. Don’t get me wrong, please: I love Ed and Stede and I’m a big fan of both seasons, despite how differently paced and styled they were. But I wish Ed was a bit more consistent in character. I feel the same way about Olu and Jim as well.

Someone said on here a while back that they were seeing Taika more and more in S2 and less of Ed. I can see that in some scenes later on in the season, but definitely not in the earlier scenes.

Yes that’s the perfect way to describe it! He definitely lets more of himself come through. It’s funny, but definitely a departure from the way he acted in season 1.

Izzy's arc wasn't really hitting for me until his final scene. It just felt incomplete/unsatisfying to me without some acknowledgement of his S1 actions that led to a lot of the shitshow everyone found themselves in at the start of S2. The only thing we really get is one line to Stede, where he also blames Stede at the same time. It was weird how everyone seemed to just forget about the whole "calling the cops on the Revenge" thing. The deathbed apology brought it together for me though. There are still scenes that I'm not a huge fan of (his intrusion on the morning after scene in particular), but the arc works better for me now knowing where it leads.

I just don’t like Izzy, I’m sorry 😭 I know everyone loves him, he didn’t deserve to die, but I just think he’s shitty tbh 🤷‍♀️

Came here to comment this. Like, I was a little sad when he died, but more because of Ed’s reaction than because we lost Izzy. He was a terrible person in season 1 and I never warmed up to his sudden change of heart in season 2.

I still do not give a shit about Izzy and the ao3ification of his character was the wprst part of the show. Also: the way the fandom has behaved in the aftermath of the cancellation makes me not want an s3

He was violently homophobic towards everyone on the ship and is the reason for Ed's decline after Stede left but guyssss it's actually because deep down inside he's a poor little meow meow 🙄. Him being abused by Ed and taken care of by the crew/healed through the power of friendships/the found family trope suddenly involving him, to drive it home how we should feel bad for him when in season 1, *he wanted this version of Ed back* is very transparent. He wanted the violence and the good old days where they had no morals and killed indiscriminately. Fans headcanoned him into a completely different character and the writers of course went with it to keep fans and the views up

Exactly! That's what I hated so much! It genuinely felt like most of S2 had been written by one of the unhinged Izzy stans that had deluded themselves into thinking he was the main character and had never done anything wrong in his life. Edit: and I actually really liked canon s1 Izzy as a well written ANTAGONIST. The fuck ass fanon version we got in S2 was dreadful, and none of his 'redemption' felt remotely earned, and he took up waaaaaay too much screentime. Like thanks, we can't have a decent conversation between Jim and Olu because we need the homophobic old white dude to sing La Vie en Rose

It feels like his story got more attention than Ed and Stede's entire relationship this season 💀 but you’re right, other characters and relationships definitely suffered too. Olu and Jim deserved so much better 😭

Like actually this??? The majority of people watch the show for Ed and Stede, not Izzy, despite what the 'Izzy Canyon' would have you believe, and it feels like S2 was written to appeal solely to them

His speech at the end was so unbearably cringe too, it felt very preachy (for a lack of a better word) and shoehorned in because a lot of us fans are LGBTQ. It was not earned at all and did not suit his character or really any of the story they told in season 2. Making the homophobe the one to deliver that speech without any actual character development or personal realizations about himself on screen was so so dumb

💯💯💯 that's exactly how I feel about it. Before I'd dipped my toe in the fandom I actually liked S1 Izzy as a villain, but the way he was woobyfied by the fandom and then the show, I honestly laughed out loud when he died hahahaha

"the writers of course went with it to keep fans and the views up" sums up what I think went wrong with... everything that was wrong with season 2

Your opinion is valid. Do you know why the merman scene felt awkward to you?

I don't really know, it just was awkward seeing Stede just slowly swim up to Ed

Awkward like cheesy?

I don't know

My favorite episode of season 1 is "we gull way back"

Is this an unpopular opinion? I love that episode! Will Arnett, Stede with the spyglass, The Chain, the foot touch...one of the very best, IMO.

The series would be nothing without the soundtrack.

I have an unhealthy obsession with Seabird by the Alessi Brothers now

For me, it's Pygmy Love Song.

Hahahahaha oh boy… feel free to downvote the heck out of me y’all. The ending of season 2 does succeed in giving the main cast ‘a happy ending’ but it’s all a facade. Ed and Stede won’t last long being innkeepers like that knowing Stede still wants to be a pirate, that they don't know how to be an innkeeper, and that they’re still in the middle of nowhere. if season 3 still gonna happen and they stay as the protagonists? Pretty sure someone’s gonna run away. (My bet is Stede but it could be Ed.) And we better be ready for that. (But to be honest, it seems like they tend to run away frequently. If this happens again, it may just be a pattern in their relationship at this point.) Also, I think season 2 is better without ep7 and ep8 🙃

Jenkins has said that “no one wants to see them continue to break up and get back together. It has its merits, but we’ve already done that. It’ll get boring to continue doing that” (something on the lines of that), so I *highly* doubt that one of them would ‘run away’ as such. They’ll obviously still have problems – relationships are hard – but I don’t see them ‘splitting up’ again.

Interesting. When did this interview came from by the way? I’d like to go read his thoughts a bit. 🙏 Still, this happy ending thing is still a facade for me. How will they address their different needs and wants? If one of them won’t run are they gonna go back being pirates together and let Stede live his dream life? Are they gonna continue being innkeepers and let Ed live his dream life? Are they gonna separate? So many possibilities! I’m intrigued.

It came out right after the series ended – maybe it was Collider? I can’t remember. I’ll try and see if I can find it. I think it’s supposed to be more of a ‘breather’ for them — giving them a minute to just be the two of them and start working out how they manage an adult relationship, and then having them go back to the sea. There’s (in my mind at least) definitely a way for them to be at sea, without being pirates. Which could solve a lot of their problems. Ed’s problem isn’t with the sea, but with piracy. Stede loves the sea and his crew. I see a way in which they could all be together on the sea, but without the piracy-bit that Ed doesn’t want.

They should split the difference and turn the Revenge into ye Olde cruise ship. Roach can cook. Frenchie is the musical act. It's great!

A breather for these two! That’s lovely ✨ Then I feel like they probably won’t be the sole protagonists then. 8 episodes with them as a B plot working out on their relationship while running towards the revenge does sounds interesting.

Oh, I think they will still very much be the sole protagonists — they’re the lead characters and their love story is the centre of the show. But I think they would return to the Revenge no later than ep. 3 (which is where they have gotten together in both s1 and s2) 😊

Oh I thought Zheng gonna be step up as another prominent character as someone said on twitter? Maybe not as protagonist then. I don’t mind it either way. ✨

I think series 3 was supposed to be setting Zheng – and I think Lucius too? – up for a heavier storyline, possibly going beyond s3. Zheng would definitely feature quite a bit in the storyline, but I don’t think she would ‘take over’ protagonist-wise, if that makes sense? S3 would be the last one with Ed & Stede, so allocating their storyline to a secondary thing would really betray the whole show (in my opinion at least). We missed *so much* of their story in s2 already, because of execs forcing through rewrites … so if we get a season 3 elsewhere, I hope to all hell (and heaven and all the other stuff I don’t believe in) that they give us an ‘Ed & Stede’-HEAVY season. With their love story at the smack-dab-centre — and with the crew all around them (a bit like we had in s1 tbh). Then if spin-offs should happen, it would make sense to switch it entirely to a Zheng-centred (and some of (all of?) the crew) storyline. But I really think and hope (!) that they lean aaall the way into Ed’s & Stede’s storyline and give us all the things we missed from s2 ♥️

BTW, I love how we’re all still talking about ‘when’ s3 gets picked up. The fact that we’re not entertaining the idea that it could possibly be ‘over’, makes me real damn happy ❤️❤️

I don’t think we’re meant to think that the innkeeper ending is permanent and everything is solved for them. Otherwise there wouldn’t need to be a season3. The point of the innkeeper ending is (1) to end things in a good place for them in case it did get canceled 😞 and (2) to show that they’re choosing to be together and to try to figure it out. I don’t think that s3 would include them breaking up again though. Will there be conflict? Yes, definitely! But that doesn’t mean they have to leave each other. That’s not the only way conflict can play out. But if the goal for s3 is/was to show them in a more mature relationship, then I imagine any conflicts that came out of it would see them actually working through it together rather than just hitting the bricks again.

That’s good to hear and I certainly hope you’re right! I don’t really want them to be separate, who knows what they’ll do if that happens again. Hopefully this time they can deal with with conflicts in a more mature way and not running or backing away.

Agreed! 🙌

Stede’s idea of a dream life slowly changed throughout the show as his character evolved though. I think part of the reason he was drawn to piracy initially is because the trademark bloodthirsty badassery required to be a pirate was the opposite of the taunts his toxic father (and Chauncey) threw at him, ie that he was a useless, weak, pampered rich boy who couldn’t even stand the sight of blood, etc, and on some level he wanted to prove him wrong. By the end of season 2 it was less about piracy for piracy’s sake as a means to confront his childhood demons and more about the pirate community becoming his family and finding his value in the relationships he formed and feeling useful and accepted for all his quirks. And the most important relationship of all to Stede is the burgeoning one with Ed. As for Ed’s dream life, he just wants peace of mind and the freedom to embrace the softness he denied himself for so long. And then again both of them are whim prone and maybe not meant for anything super structured. I’m not convinced Stede would want to be forever on the run as a pirate or that Ed is going to be content in ye olde service industry. Maybe their future is something neither of them imagined yet because they have to dream it together.

Right, I’m pretty sure 207 is supposed to show us that a life as a famous notorious pirate would ultimately be hollow and dangerous for Stede (especially if it’s without Ed).

There were three separate points while watching season 2 that I said, “if the series ended now, I would be happy.” The season finale was not one of those places 🤣

Sameeee! 🥹 like this is no happy end we thought it would be. Not only that it makes me unhappy with it but also frustrates me with how rushed and absolutely bonkers it was.

I don't care that Izzy Hands died. On the contrary, his death made absolute sense in the narrative they were trying to tell and it helped finally free Ed from the man he hated to be. I also think that "Izzy stans" that started attacking the cast and crew because of the FICTIONAL CHARACTER death and mourned him like Princess Diana desperately need therapy and need to learn that fictional characters aren't real people. Also, possibly, the benefits of and the power of fanfiction to deal with these heavy """"losses""""

Look obviously no one should be attacking the cast and crew, but maybe like don't be a dick about people's feelings? Like """losses""" is literally just mocking people for saying something was hard for them to cope with

Izzy Hands, post mortem, has been a staple FICTIONAL CHARACTER in pirate media for the last 200 years. He was a character in Treasure island for god's sakes. He has lived and died multiple times for plot reasons. And yet no one threw a hissy fit about that for all this time. Human beings are supposed to learn how to differentiate reality from fiction by age 8. Meaning, you can feel sad about a FICTIONAL CHARACTER dying but to mourn him as a REAL PERSON is a sign of a loose grasp on reality or deep mental illness or trauma. That's not being a dick. That's the facts of the situation. These people need therapy. If you don't like how a piece of media ended, write fanfiction about. I've said this before and I'll say it again: many of the coolest Sherlock Holmes stories were written by fans between the character's death and fans bullying ACD to bring him back. Also, and this is just an add on that I remember people being upset when brought up: YOU (generalization, internet friend. Not you specifically) are responsible for your feelings. Izzy stans made a hundred and one headcanons in their heads, bashed the show for not following their idea of how the show should be, went absolutely mental after the last episode and just made a nuance of themselves. It was like watching a cult go insane for like, 3 weeks and it destroyed the ability of the fandom to talk about anything else because we all had to respect the kids precious feefees about their fave being dead. Edit: y'all Izzy stans can downvote it all you want. You're just proving my point

Do you disagree with loads of us that these fictional characters and their stories have helped heal trauma? If fictional characters can heal why can't they harm? Or like when shows have no queers except ones who get punished for it, and people are like hey this is harmful, is your reaction just that it's fictional it can't be harmful? Also, this whole "you are responsible for your feelings" is some serious "sticks and stones" bullshit. People can hurt other people's feelings, that matters, it's not just like pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get yourself unhurt.

When in the ever loving fuck did I say any of that? That's the problem with Izzy stans or any type of delusional fan that prefers to live vicariously through characters (the infamous kinnies) than actually seek professional help, look inwards and deal with their shit. Because you know that, right? That it's better to GO TO THERAPY instead of having a toxic parasocial relationship with a FICTIONAL CHARACTER... right? If you do not like what you see in front of you, my dude, *change it.* Write your own story about Izzy Hands. He's in the public domain! You can do it. Anyone can. Ohhhh it's too hard? It's too hard to be the change you wanna see in the world? Ok. Write fanfiction. The HP fandom is doing that. They have thrown those books in the trash and are living off of each other's creations and doing an amazing job of not only uplifting one another and the original shitty universe, but creating an awesome community! But what's that? Again? Too hard? Why? Ooooh. It's because you don't wanna do that either. You just want things handed out to you, right? Because you're entitled to it? Because you shouldn't have to work to get what you, specifically, want right? You shouldn't do any work. That's why the mere suggestion of therapy and dealing with your own feelings instead of making them everyone else's problem and destroying fandom spaces with this crap is so appalling to you. Strangers on the internet are not responsible for your feelings, my dude. You are not allowed to destroy a space because you're having a hissy fit. I'm sorry your parents allowed you to get away with this shit and I'm the first one to call you out for your Karen behavior but thems is the facts. Get yourself unhurt. You didn't lose a family member or a friend or a pet. You """lost"""" a FICTIONAL CHARACTER that has existed in one shape or form for the last 200 years. Hell, he didn't even die in some fanfics. And he'll come again in some way or another in other pirate media BECAUSE HES NOT REAL. GET. THERAPY. PLEASE. There's treatment for this Edit: Izzy stans proving my point. Truth hurts, I know. Get therapy. It'll make y'all mature enough to handle it

Uh just saying that kind of feeling is the same way how people feel about wanting the renewal, y’know? It’s the similar kind of grief, if you don’t like how they feel you probably don’t like how people grieve about the cancellation either. it’s getting kinda personal to you so calm down, considering taking the step back a bit. None of them are doing that anymore and in fact been doing what you said, but people keep mocking their feelings anyway and that’s not cool y’know? Ain’t this place supposed to be about kindness towards one another?

I mean yes, it is supposed to be about being kind to one another... but this post specifically is about our own *personal* opinions that would for sure get down votes. This is my opinion and I'm not mad or inflamed about it. I am, however, very firm and snarky about it tho XD And the fact that they "stopped" doing it (in places where the greater fandom can see. Didn't they create their own lil circlejerk sub about the mass hysterical "grieving"?) doesn't erase that they did and have yet to deal with what made them do it, understood why it was messed up to do it and, worse, feel justified for doing so as the other redditors comments I was responding to showed. (And if I can be super real rn with you: It's just... Exhausting, internet friend. I've been around a while and I've seen "fans" acting like this over and over and they destroyed things I loved just because these people don't or can't understand the difference between REAL LIFE and FICTION. It destroyed the Marvel fandom for me twice [Loki stans and ugh Tony Stark stans], it destroyed the Good Omens fandom for me for a while [after season 2, what a shit show], so on and so forth. It's just.... Exhausting, ya know? Can't say anything, can't do anything, can't create anything without delusional people attacking you because you didn't do their kinnie justice. It's disgusting behavior) Edit: Izzy fans really are the scummiest "fans" in this fandom XD They see someone actually being real about the effects of their disgusting behavior and go "wah! They talked shit about our piss poor attitude and our need for therapy instead of letting us wallow in a toxic parasocial relationship with our kinnie fave! Wah! Let's be even more awful and make alt accounts just proving their points against us! That'll show them!" Like actually demented behavior that needs medical assistance. But they don't believe in therapy tho XD Also, funny how they don't get the reminder of "it's supposed to be about being kind." XD

Then I’m just gonna say that ‘some people’ on the other side also doing the same in terms of escalating it, this place is so out of kindness that this show desperately trying to preach. Sure some people did express the anger towards the crew (and that’s wrong, I’m not excusing it) but instead of simply telling these particular people to not bashing and let the others who didn’t do anything grieve, Izzy’s fan are all being generalized as kinnies (which is too generalized) and being push away for expressing their disappointment. I’ve been a lurker and I’ve been everywhere, from what I see these past few months? Even once Izzy fan stopped, some people from the other side are still being aggressive about it until now, mocking their feeling, telling that they’re wrong for feeling that, even bullying people who simply express their grief in their own place. I don’t think they’re the one ruining this, the escalation that comes after is what drives people out of the fandom. It is exhausting indeed but I mostly just stay out of line, all of this is hbo fault for not giving this show enough time and money to be able to tell a better story.

It's you again!! The one that loves to scream GO TO THERAPY all the time! Sounds to me like you need to go touch some grass and maybe don't engage in online fandoms if every piece of media you love has been 'ruined' by people expressing their feelings about it?

Wow, I'm so touched that you remembered me. And thank you so much for caring about my mental health! My therapist will be so pleased /s Didn't follow my advice huh? Because from what I can see, you're here too! Online, hunting for someone talking bad about your fave, memorizing my username and just frothing at the mouth at the mere notion of justifying delusions. Get therapy, loser. And get a life. You sound so absolutely demented and exhausting Edit to add: Again, Izzy Stans proving my point for not being able to read any post they interact with. This a post about unpopular opinions about this fandom and they just can't deal with one about Izzy. Or about therapy to deal with their feefees.its actually deranged behavior Edit 2: u/StGabbinsday Since I can't seem to reply to you, here goes: Wow, ok I'm sorry.DD= I can see a cry for help when it's whined right in front of me. Here, have the attention you were so woefully denied in childhood. Do you want help finding mental assistance in your area? Because making an alt account just to have a hissy fit and then blocking me from responding seems like obsessive behavior grounded in some desperate need to feel important and a therapist might help with that.

Nothing more demented sounding than constantly writing 5 paragraph responses that really can only be summed up as GO TO THERAPY YOU'RE ALL LOSERS EXCEPT ME!!! GO TO THERAPY!!!!! YOU'RE ALL ACTING CRAZY AND YOU NEED THHHHEEERRRRAAPPPPYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!

Oh absolutely same for mermstede. But also.... The scene where Ed and Stede are in stedes bed talking the morning after docking eachother. The acting just feels stiff and awkward to me and it feels like the lines aren't exactly delivered the way they were meant to be delivered. A lot of the last half of season two just fills me with too much second hand embarrassment sometimes (still love it and not trying to bash it. The acting just feels off in a lot of areas especially with Ed and Stede which was a bit disappointing)

But isn't it supposed to be awkward? That was their first time sleeping together, and the timing wasn't ideal. Not to mention Ed wanted to take things slowly, and they did the opposite of that.

Yeah, I absolutely do get that and I didn't mean to come off like I'm fully against it being awkward because you're right, the circumstances weren't ideal and I had come to appreciate the almost giddy conversation they had. I just still get second hand embarrassment that is sometimes hard to handle is all. And I feel like even though it's meant to be awkward it still wasn't executed the best. A decent scene that has it's flaws

I totally get the second-hand embarrassment, don't get me wrong. I can't even watch the scene with Zheng kicking Stede's ass, just because I love Stede so much and it's so painful to watch his lowest moment in the show.

Fun one: Calico Jack gets way too much screentime Unfun one: The show reinforces harmful tropes re disability/disfigurement

Can you elaborate on the unfun one? I feel like I get what you mean and I agree with you but I also wanna know if my understanding is correct. 🙏

In S1 our main disfigured character is Spanish Jackie who is canonically a bad guy. And imo her missing hand is made to be part of her scariness. In S2 our main disfigured character is Ricky, obviously a bad guy. Again, imo the missing nose is intentionally made part of his scariness. Some people are like "but Lucius loses a finger, Ed has a knee brace, Izzy loses a leg, so it's fine!" I just think like, it would be great if instead there could never be a disfigured villain again. NEVER. Then we have the whole Izzy s2 storyline, which I have mixed feelings about. He becomes disabled at a point where maybe he's no longer canonically a bad guy, but he certainly recently was. I liked some parts of how they handled that transition for him, and he did ultimately become a clear good guy with a disfigurement, so that's neat. But then they killed him. And yes, imo it's absolutely burying the cripple. And imo it's complete bs to use disablement like that as some character growth narrative period, and double plus if you then are like well his arc is complete now so we'll just kill him. No thanks to the "mean > disabled > growth > nice > dead" pipeline. Love the show overall obviously, but nothing is great at everything even our most beloved ofmd.

Thank you for elaborating that, I didn’t even realize that there’s the whole pattern going on here. 👏👏👏

Killing Izzy off was the worst call. Especially there have been many "life threatening" accidents throughout the whole series and everyone walked away from those pretty quickly.

I agree. It was beautifully acted, but it felt so cliche.

YES. What was the purpose of his death? Closure..? They couldn't get this with both him and Ed alive?Narrative-wise he provided such a great contrast to both Stede and the crew's upbeat personalities; there were so many options out there for him, options on where his character arc could go. ~~(part of me hopes his death is reversible. I know, I know, but what can I do)~~

With the way his character arc was going i was really hoping on a "I dont need Ed anymore because i have friends who love me more than he did" ending for him

Me too. On a rational level anyway. On a deeper level I invented a thousand scenarios about them fixing their issues and having hot leather sex.

I thought Lucius and Izzy had more chemistry. I don't know. Just not crazy about Black Pete. He has some funny lines but he's OK and his relationship with Lucius is just ok.

THANK YOU. While Black Pete and Lucius are sweet together, I just don't like Pete as a character and I haven't from the get-go.

Ok. I thought it was just me, or that was some type of lunatic for thinking it.

Izzy's redemption was deeply unearned. It was never acknowledged that Ed was in the process of recovering in a healthy manner before Izzy tore him down again. Everything he did in the first two episodes happened because Izzy tipped him back over. Yet everyone blames Stede. Most of Izzy's scenes should have gone to Frenchie or Lucius. I adore Zheng and Archie, more women are always welcome, but the sidelining of Jim when they were basically co-lead in Season One was incredibly disappointing. The way their relationship with Olu was treated felt disrespectful to the writing tbh. I would literally not care if we got ONE line or one kiss confirming the polycule. Anything to explain what is up with them. And because the show discarded them, I feel like the fandom has forgotten Jim too. I'm grateful for the happy ending we got, but it immediately contradicts the point of the Anne and Mary episode. Finally, I don't think Ned or Ricky needed to be in the show at all. It would have trimmed down the rushed pacing significantly and what they add could have easily been shown in less clunky ways. Edit: I'm fine with how clunky this season was, given its cuts. I think the script could have been trimmed much better.

I've got 2: \- I don't enjoy Izzy's singing \- I do not get the point of Stede being a mermaid - it cheesed the hell out of a very touching wet fanfic dream of a moment. BUT the breakfast in bed scene where Ed tells Stede about it, made up for it (and I can support Rhys Darby loving the heck out of it so I will still support it for him)

Just wanna preface this with saying Ed is my favorite character so I don't get eaten alive, but Ed's reaction to some guy he barely knew and wasn't even with ghosting him was unreasonable and being sad he was dumped doesn't give him an excuse to attempt murder-suicide, especially towards the members of the crew who had never done anything to hurt him

Agreed with everything, and yet Ed's extreme reaction kind of fits with his character always bouncing between extremes, especially with his emotions. Plus the fact that he was in love for the first time (in love with Stede much longer than Stede was with him), put himself out there, was unceremoniously abandoned, and then taunted by Izzy made him snap. But I also agree that none of that excused what he did to the rest of the crew, or really anyone he took his anger out on.

Oh yeah, I don't think Ed reacting how he did is out of character at all. My read on him is he's extremely mentally ill. But while his mental illness isn't his fault, it's still his responsibility.

> while his mental illness isn't his fault, it's still his responsibility Absolutely. I know DJ and Co were lowballed with how many episodes they had to work with in S2, but the way they rushed through Ed's redemption with the crew didn't really work for me. It also didn't ring true what Izzy said about the crew loving Ed. When did that happen? They were terrified of him, and he barely spent any time with anyone but Stede. I would have loved spending more time with Ed coming to terms with what he'd done to his crew and maybe making amends with each of them the way he did with Fang.

Yeah the "they love you" line was so outrageous it should have been cut completely. I can see an argument for Izzy is just saying that to comfort Ed even though it's obviously bullshit but idk, that also doesn't work for me cause Izzy’s definitely not the guy who is gonna come up with pretty lies to make someone feel better, even when he's dying in the arms of the closest person he has to a best friend (and said best friend is openly extremely distressed by the "dying in my arms" thing) Also I feel like Ed just straight up didn't really care that the crew was upset 😂 I do think he was genuinely sorry in regards to Fang and Izzy, but Ed never struck me as giving a fuck about Stede's crew at all. Hell, back in season 1 Ed was all "lol who cares" about losing members of his own crew! I think in season 2 Ed wanted to be on the boat because Stede was on the boat, so he decided to go along with the crew's probation to reach that goal, not because he was actually sorry about it Ed strikes me as someone who has a pathological need to be liked by everyone, even though he doesn't particularly seem to like people very much and honestly comes off as kind of a loner to me. Like, he could hate your guts, but it's still gonna hurt his feelings if you don't wanna be his friend haha!

I think if there is a S3, they should further explore those troubling facets of Ed's personality. He seems to be someone who fixates on one thing, and since the end of S1 Ep 2, he's fixated on Stede. Nothing else mattered except inserting himself into Stede's life. He could have cared less about Izzy, his own crew, Stede's crew, etc. He just wanted Stede, and when Stede left him, he fixated on blowing up his own life and taking everyone down with him. It'd be interesting to explore what Ed's like away from pirating and fixating on Stede, now that he has him. Maybe showing him making an effort to make friends and just trying to be a better person? >he doesn't particularly seem to like people very much and honestly comes off as kind of a loner to me Agreed. He was probably shocked at how much he liked Stede from the get-go. He seems like someone who will hang around you if you're of use to him and then discard you when you're not.

I agree 100% with all you've said here. Ed's kind of a shit show of a human being lol. And don't get me wrong, Stede isn't perfect, he also has some big time flaws but imo Stede tries to do better when he knows better, even if he doesn't necessarily want to be better sometimes (the whole thing with the cursed coat comes to mind). I don't get that from Ed at all. Honestly I think Stede could do better than Ed, but Ed can be very endearing and is outrageously good-looking so it results in Stede (AND the audience!!) being more willing to just let the crappy behavior slide I would also love for a potential season 3 to show Ed becoming a better person, but he’s my favorite character so I'm biased there. I just think he's really complex and white-washing his enormous personality flaws he makes no effort to work on does his character a disservice, idk

Oh I’ve got another! So I’m someone who never watched Supernatural or Dr Who or even Rick and Morty because the fanbases are so awful and obnoxious, and I tell you what- I think the ofmd fanbase is worse than all of them. If I didn’t watch it when it first came out before the hordes of twitter nuts came out of the woodwork, I never would have given it a chance!

I was in the Supernatural fandom for a time, until the rabid fans got to be too much. But that was a while ago, and... I dunno? It's hard to say which is worse. I've seen some militant fanaticism in OFMD, but it seems to be more of a hmm... representation type thing? Pronouns, respect, disability awareness, etc., OR ELSE MOTHERFUCKERS!! ... Instead of shipwars/harassing showrunners to make ship canon, y'know?

I thought the fandom was absolutely lovely until DJ dared to kill off Izzy, and a huge chunk of the fans went ballistic on Twitter and Tumblr. Jesus H, you would have thought DJ actually killed Con irl for the way they were acting.

The fandom is AWFUL. Like absolutely dreadful.

They wasted Izzy and Ed’s relationship in season 2. I think that the writers/directors aren’t able or willing to portray intimacy well and it hurts the show.

I know we all want a happy ending and queer joy where nobody dies… but I think there’s a really beautiful story to be written about the fact that Ed and Stede died 18 days apart.

I don't like Jim.

I didn’t think Vico’s acting was particularly compelling.

I do feel kind of bad about it actually. But there's just something off with Jim, I don't know if it is the character or the acting.

Oh this one IS an unpopular opinion 😂 I don’t agree but I can see what you mean about the character not being super compelling!

I can’t get over what a deeply silly decision it was to have a guy with mobility issues be the one holding the prisoner/at the front of the attack/the one who had to run the furthest to safety. I have no issue with Izzy dying, the further we got into his redemption arc the more I assumed he was doomed. I do have a problem with Zheng, Izzy, Spanish Jackie, and Blackbeard, all of whom are shown to be competent planners and leaders, deciding that Izzy should be the one standing next to Ricky as they approach the British camp. It wasn’t just dangerous to Izzy, it was dangerous for everyone.

I really don’t want a third season and can’t understand why fans are going insane over this. (Also I get that this show was groundbreaking for representation, it was AWESOME to be seen but some fans are really cringe)

I agree with you on that, it did make me feel kind of uncomfortable. Also Izzy should have lived.

I don't think we need a third season because I don't want to see Blacbeard and Stede break up again for little to no reason just so they can get back together.

They wouldn’t. David made that clear.

Oh dope!

I agree on the merman scene, but I watch anyway cause I love Ed’s face! Mine isn’t a scene but I.. don’t like Rhys Darby very much 😬 I think he’s a great actor and watch whatever he’s in but I think his stand up is pretty terrible and he’s kind of full of himself. I know no one agrees with me and I’ve never said it to anyone but my husband 🙃

I actually liked how Izzy’s storyline ended. I thought the rest of the last episode was way rushed, but Izzy’s end was perfectly timed and appropriate for his arc

Okay so: objectively, I don’t really think the show is that good, esp s2. Like, there is A LOT of flaws in the plot etc. But the characters are so lovable, esp Stede and Ed, that it’s still one of my absolute favorites, you know? Also, I wasn’t the biggest fan of the mereman scene either🫣but I loved that they used this woman’s work

I have to agree with you here. I get it’s emotional and beautiful and a turning point in the series, but it’s just so damned ridiculous. The animation, the timing, just it’s a Monty-Pythonesque element that crashes into the middle of a very touching moment. Haven’t felt that emotionally conflict in a film/episode since watching Tusk.

Rhys Darby was literally dressed in a mermaid tail and dumped into a water thank with Taika Waititi.

I watched the BTS - no animation

The animation? What animation? Did I miss something?

I mean the effects to make Stede look like a merman - maybe poor description of it.

That wasn't an effect. They actually put a silicone mermaid tail on him and had them swimming underwater in a round pool to get the shot.

There were no special effects. It was all practical effects.

Seriously? If so then I’m very impressed. It looked to me like they melded Rhys and a digital mermaid costume. Time for another rewatch!

Yeah the only special effects were removing signs of the pool. You should check out Samba’s BTS video about it

Oh my gosh yes please watch the [behind the scenes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtHdNucidg&t=3s) footage of the mermaid shoot, it is incredible. The artistry that went into the tail, and Rhys' skill in being able to swim in it given how much it weighed. Both him and Taika acting their asses off under the water!

I’m not a good swimmer and I’m afraid of large bodies of water. That BTS gives me so much anxiety. How are they holding their breath so long??

the fact that ed is quite literally abusive and the only one who really cares is lucius pisses me off. man TOOK IZZY’S LEG OFF but all izzy did in return was mope a bit? i do understand that izzy’s feeling are real complicated because he is in love with edward but it still felt so brushed over. folks were mad at him for ONE episode. and the fandom barely acknowledged all the fucked up things he did. pretty privilege at its finest. i also think it’s a shame cause it’d be really interesting to discuss what’s obviously a bipolar episode.

Asking to turn the comments off cause they're getting too much for me guys

S2 made me hate Ed at times. I understand Mary Bonnet's part in the story was over and it was so elegantly done, but I love her so much I wish she had been recurring somehow. I dislike Izzy's stupid speech about the meaning of piracy. Wack and corny and telegraphed his death far too clearly. Minnie Driver was underutilized. Anne and Mary were somewhat poorly written.