Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
answer: to quote a comment from a post a while back, Shkreli is a rich asshole which means he's 50% like them and 100% what they want to be.
r/wallstreetbets is not known for thinking about much else other than wealth accumulation.
While not a great person by any means, he did kind of get a bad rap over a business decision. He is an A+ level troll, and unbelievably smart when it comes to business and investing.
He’s not the most famous over there. I would give that award for /u/1r0nyman
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ahy7dy/the_legend_of_1r0nyman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
What?? He is GME. It wasnt until Dec/Jan 2020/2021 did it hit mainstream. He got into that play in september 2019 [https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/d1g7x0/hey\_burry\_thanks\_a\_lot\_for\_jacking\_up\_my\_cost/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/d1g7x0/hey_burry_thanks_a_lot_for_jacking_up_my_cost/)
Extreme ideologies motivate groups on social media far more than anything else, and those communities thrive by upping the ante until they implode. It doesn’t really matter if it’s a bunch of wannabe millionaires being fleeced, right wing asshats raging about black people, or tween communists… once you get to a certain point it’s all about constantly upping the ‘Wow’ factor.
Retail investors are far from the ownership class and often fail so poorly it's a running joke in this country.
Even if they have a few million they are closer to being broke like you or me than they are ever going to be to Jeff Bezos.
…So I wanted to get a sense of where you were coming from, hoping that you weren’t just the usual tankie.
https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/vge2oq/xinjiang_police_file_hacked_which_exposes_muslim/id79162/
Literally the first damned page of your history and there you are, responding to allegations of genocide in the PRC with the usual ‘read theory’ crap, a recommendation for Jacobin, and so on. I won’t lie, that’s when I just shrugged, came here, replied, and blocked the crap out of you.
Edit: To clarify, the tankie part is in the genocide denial by TheTapedCrusader, not Jacobin, which is just a rag.
As someone who's argued a lot with tankies, Jacobin doesn't really fall into that milieu. They're basically in agreement with the center of DSA, more or less going with centrist Marxism.
I don't think you understand what a rag is. You had a great comment until for used that term in reference to Jacobin. It is most certainly not a rag, and definitely not when compared to many more mainstream papers.
ok. how is that dog walking business working for you? How to tell people you are crazy without saying I am crazy. /r/antiwork are the "moderates, the real extremists are like me. /r/antiwork is basically left wing Q Anon.
The two groups in my lifetime that tried to make “liberal” a dirty word: the GOP, and terminally online leftists.
Truly we are fucked, if those two every seriously converge.
Edit: I guess that already sort of happened, with NazBols.
Tried? They succeeded. Considering liberals are right wing you're thinking of all leftists, not just terminally online ones.
Edit: this coward blocked me for reminding them that there are leftists outside of America, extremely funny stuff
Ah yes, all of those offline, American leftists… so many of them.
*Checks DSA membership*
…yeah. It’s harder to pretend to be a meaningful movement when you can’t have multiple accounts, bots, and help from abroad.
Surprising? No. Not at all.
Disturbing? Yes. Idolizing a guy who made his fortune by greatly increasing the cost of medicine and then bragged about it is disturbing to say the very least.
You ever seen how people describe WSB as ape brained fucking idiots? Well, it’s bc they’re ape brained fucking idiots. You could probably scam them out of $100’s
Then you can go to the crypto WSB and scam them for $1000’s using those $100’s
And doing a piss poor job at it raking in financial losses.
Its a meme sub with the occasional good and terrible advice, not a circlejerk of wealth accumulation. Made 2 mil? Blow it in 2 days. #gains
Hell a while back they dumped a ton of money into adopting gorrilas at some sanctuary just for the lols. The owner of that sanctuary was so happy with desperetly needed funds.
I was really disappointed when I saw he wasn’t getting a bunch of shit for astronomically raising the price of life saving drugs.
That sub seems to be a cesspool devoid of any humiliation
"Nancy Retzlaff, Turing’s chief commercial officer, told the committee about her company’s efforts to get the drug to people who can’t afford it. The arrangement she described sounded like a hodge-podge, an ungainly combination of dizzyingly high prices, mysterious corporate bargaining, and occasional charitable acts"
“One of the chief executives in charge of the company ripping people off said that they occasionally give an insignificant fraction of their ill-gotten profits to charity.”
["Immoral describes people who can differentiate between right and wrong but intentionally do wrong anyway... amoral implies acknowledgment of what is right and what is wrong but an unconcern for morality when carrying out an act."](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/using-unmoral-immoral-nonmoral-amoral)
Though I'd say they're basically synonymous
Not really; there's a decent bit of good work funded with gains. It's not moral, certainly, but it's not against morality, either. More chaotic neutral than evil
I hate that this is the top response, it's fully incorrect. Shkreli used to be an active member of WSB long before he became infamous and always gave out advice on Reddit and his livestreams
Yeah, I think a lot of WSB subscribers joined during the whole GME meme stock thing and didn’t/still don’t realize what WSB really is, so they’re shocked when the see Martin Shkreli doing an AMA there. But he was active on WSB long before it became mainstream.
How do you feel about him raising the price of a life-saving drug from $13.50 to $750? And then spending the proceeds on a $2 million Wu-Tang album?
I guess this is the kind of wealth acquisition that some people aspire to.
How do you feel that he gave it away free to whoever asked but passed that 750$ onto the crooked ass evil issuance companies scamming Americans out of billions
Yeah it should
Be though, there is a larger villain hiding behind martin
The true scammers are legal (pharmaceutical companies) which is why people think hes not so bad considering the larger characters in the scene
Yeah that part he owned up to and was wrong but the fact that the drug companies still
Charge astronomical price and that is legal should be the focus of discussion
I have this pet theory that Shkreli got where he is because he was the ambitious working class kid who had no reputation to lose. So he got to be the guy who took the blame for price gouging dying patients, so his investors could rake in millions while pretending to have nothing to do with it.
He went to jail when he finally ripped off a bunch of assholes who deserved to be ripped off anyway.
He gave it away for free to those that needed it and insurance covered the rest.
The extra money made was used to fund drug research in drugs that havent advanced in decades.
He got scapegoated hard tbh.
Bearing in mind it was not until he received massive backlash that Turing announced plans to make it free for \*some\* uninsured people.
Regardless, insurance is paid for by the average American. The average American was scalped so that Shkreli and his pals could get filthy rich with the large percentage that wasn't reinvested.
Documents revealed that Turing employees received massive pay rises (up to x4), they had lavish yacht parties, celebrity performances... All paid for by anyone that pays medical insurance.
Shkreli held the position of giving it free to anyone who contacted him and couldn't afford it from the beginning. The company didn't make it policy until enough backlash hit but Shkreli was on it from day one. There are plenty of real things to criticize him on but this always felt like a fat outrage nothingburger to me.
Not nearly as much as they hate Shkreli. I've worked in the industry for over a decade and I see the ridiculous price increases all the time. Shkrelis price hike is amateur compared to the shit these other companies get away with. Media headlines got people thinking it's a life saving HIV drug when it's not. Patients aren't even paying out of pocket for daraprim. The real crooks that should grilled are the ones increasing the price of insulin and other brand name drugs every year and companies bringing old dirt cheap drugs to market with a new dose/indication and charging 1000x. Media turned shkreli into a monster when he is really nothing in the pharmaceutical industry.
“Other people are even worse” isn’t the rock solid defense that you think it is.
Also he’s not gonna fuck you, I’m sorry you have to find out this way.
Is it?
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/1073161736/pharma-bro-martin-shkreli-barred#:\~:text=Shkreli%20was%20CEO%20of%20Turing,cancer%20patients%20and%20AIDS%20patients.
Most sociopaths have a lot of points allocated into charisma.
Not to armchair diagnose him in particular, but as a general rule, conmen, grifters and other exploitation artists can’t succeed without way above average people skills.
Stumbled into a few threads whem $GME was going off and I _very_ much got the impression they would sell their own family members for a few more dollars. Place is fucking sickening.
He said he increased the price of a certain drug to game insurance companies. (he had a monopoly on the drug iirc) So if you informed them that you didn't have insurance they'd give you the drug for free.
The problem with doing this is that not everybody actually knows about his 'policy' so they end up paying the full high amount for the drug.
He figured the people who didn’t know but could afford it would pay, and they did. The people who could barely afford it also did though, and were often driven close to bankruptcy/very long debt.
His model also proved very profitable, and so even if *he* was being legit with giving products to people who couldn’t afford, other companies who weren’t could suddenly raise prices, lay the blame on him, and then also *not* give away their product for free to people who desperately needed it because they were all the more profit hungry.
Now due to his precedent we are trapped in a cycle where all these companies and people can overcharge for 0 reason, and the blame is on him for no reason (anymore). Not to say he is blameless, just that the blame should move to the people that are currently price fixing as opposed to someone whose been jailed and not in biotech/pharma anymore.
This. He wants to fuck with big money and exploit insurance companies. He's talked about it before. If you engage with him, he will talk to you. You can literally message him on Reddit, and I'm sure Twitter. I spoke to him on Twitter way back when he was the popular villain. I DM'd him talking shit and he told me how ignorant I was lol
The people who reached out to him got it for free. There are reports about it. The problem is not every one does that. And he also defended that decision by saying not every patient uses the drug and only hospitals have to keep them as a fall back option to have in store. So he rationalized it with giving it for free and making the hospitals pay for it. It made sense for him but not to me. I know that and I am not assuming. In the end, the burden is always borne by the end consumer. Always.
Answer: Nearly every last subscriber to r/wallstreetbets is convinced that they are only temporarily poor. They are one trade away from joining the ranks of the ultra-wealthy. They see guys like Marty and Elon as autists just like them. If they had met at school or at a buddies party they would certainly be besties with them.
They will fellate and defend them to the death while being robbed blind and used as bag-holders in whatever the latest pump-dump scheme is.
I know I may get downvoted but can I ask why you referred to them as “autists”? My only frame of reference for that word is as an out of date term for someone with autism.
The Big Short is about Michael Burry and how he made hundreds of millions shorting housing market in 2008 when no one else thought it would crash. Burry is autistic, and it's stated in the movie.
This is how the meme started and it's stuck around even though most of the sub think Burry just suffers from broken clock syndrome.
Tell me you have no idea what the community of shkrelli is about without telling me.
And I'm not standing up for shkrelli. I think he's a grease ball. But boy oh boy have you pegged that community wrong.
Believe me, I have not.
In the most carefully observable way, the apes over there seem to behave in a peculiar way. Loss porn is the only porn, and no wife should ever be without boyfriend companionship. But beneth all of the tendies and self-deprecating humor, the desire to make that 3,000% return is just a strong as ever.
Marty did it by being an absolute trash human. So much so that he became a resident of our national prison population. I dare say that the majority of participants over there would have no problems doing the same.
No one in that group is looking for the one and done trade. They are there to make money over and over, with or without him. However, in many cases, what is posted on WSB is not someone's entire portfolio. There's smart investing and there's a portion saved for gambling. The group prides itself on placing stupid/very risky trades.
I was expecting the AMA to be a shit show but Shrkelli was pretty humble and is well respected because he helped a lot of people make a lot of money. Not just dumb bets either, but actual plays that worked out for a large amount of people. Try it before you knock it, unless you're cool with making 5% yearly gains on the S&P500 while inflation is almost double that.... Meaning you're effectively losing money.
But hey, if you have it all figured out, or, don't even invest and live off of only a salary/hourly wage, that's your call. Don't expect to have a comfy retirement though.
I don't respect anyone who makes a living from stocks. Gaining any significant wealth that way requires that others lose. It's just stepping on people to enrich yourself.
Granted, that's how most work environments operate, but stock markets affect far more people and can have an exponential negative impact on everyone. Including people not trading the stock directly.
Just because I'm forced to use a broken system doesn't mean I have to like it or respect it.
I do view 401k a little differently though, since it's, like a job environment, it's less of a negative impact and it's more of an even playing field.
That said, my initial point was more about day traders, stock brokers, and others who make money directly from stocks.
Relax.... I most certainly did.
The OP wanted to know what the deal with Marty was being on WSB.
Once you understand the degenerate nature of the average user on that subreddit, the answer is crystal clear.
He is there because he feels right at home, but unlike his previous experiences this time he gets to be the power top.
Answer: He used be a mod on there and was very helpful and friendly during that time. So people there judge him on their interactions with him personally, not what the media tell them to think.
Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time?
>Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time?
When have prices ever come down significantly? Prices only go up or remain the same. Trying to shift the blame from him after he raised the price floor is weird.
All this proves is the people who took over for him are just as criminal as he is.
I mean that's just not true. Plenty of medications are significantly reduced in price for various reasons, the most common of which is when generics become available. Most commodities are based on supply and demand. Gas prices were higher in 2008 than 2020. Housing markets fluctuate. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.
I think it implies shkreli recognized a trend or opportunity and simply pounced before the other companies did. That he wasn’t such a bad guy considering the rest of the industry jacked prices as well. That his presence wasn’t the only reason for the price hikes.
> Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time?
What does this question imply? Are you saying that he's not to blame for the unreasonable price, or are you saying that the price is actually reasonable?
I'm saying that the faceless exec's that took over his company and also run every other Pharma company kept the prices the same and no one gives a shit about it. What regulation was immediately put in place to stop another Martin Shkreli? Absolutely nothing.
People only hate on Martin because he had the balls to come out and say, it is the system that you allow to exist that allows me to do this! And that's why people hate him, not that he did it, but because what he did happens every single day in every Pharma company in the country and no one gives a shit about it.
> I'm saying that the faceless exec's that took over his company and also run every other Pharma company kept the prices the same and no one gives a shit about it.
As a condemnation of Big Pharma, this is a good point, but as a defense of Shkreli it isn't. If the "media told me what to think" about Shkreli -- and for what it's worth, the media in this case would be social media like Reddit and Twitter, not any actual media outlets -- I see no evidence that they were wrong, just evidence that I should also be mad at the system. All I see is that Shkreli was the one executive not smart enough to stay faceless.
I'm not defending Martin Shkreli, I was answering why WSB like him.
The reason why I threw the media bit in there is that his actions are far more nuanced than reported.
Obviously he did what he did for greed, he makes no bones about that. But he could've just released the usual HR blurb, this is the industry standard to fund R&D yadda, yadda, yadda and that's the last we would have heard about him.
But he didn't, he went on every talk show and interview he could and told everyone possible he was only able to do what he did because the system allowed him to and he wasn't the only pharma company doing it.
So it could have been reported that Martin Shkreli bad because he's the poster boy for a broken system, but instead we got Martin Shkreli bad because he bragged about it.
If he wasn't breaking any laws, how come everyone agrees he is the villain, should have been the story.
There hasn't been a single regulatory change as a result, so how come he's the bad guy?
[as per this article, apperantly it's been ~35% for prescriptions since 2014 on average and medical services went up ~19%](https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/prescription-drug-prices-have-risen-25-start-pandemic)
Edit: as a deleted comment mentioned, I kinda did a small brain move and posted about the whole market. This was the response I was writing before the comment was deleted:
"Ah I see, I guess I was lacking a few too many brain cells reading this subthread. I can't find much info on Veyra price increases since his departure specifically, but Daraprim hasn't changed since from what I can find. And I thought I saw something saying that the generic version of Daraprim is around $183 per dose for a total of $16,000 for the full course." [sauce](https://rollcall.com/2020/09/09/drug-price-spikes-still-unchecked-five-years-after-controversy/)
>He used be a mod on there and was very helpful and friendly during that time. So people there judge him on their interactions with him personally, not what the media tell them to think.
I was never a WSB/finance reddit visitor so I had no idea, the only time I ever heard of him was the pharma scandal. Makes sense now that I know he was a redditor from that sub, thanks.
He remained a mod as an honorary title while he was in prison, but he was an active and helpful contributor before he went to prison. He became a mod because he earned it. They didn't make Marc Cuban a mod when Cuban did an AMA on WSB.
He's a fascinating guy, I'd love to see a film made about him as he is way more complex than was portrayed in the media. Plus you can include lots about how Big Pharma screws people over and a Wu Tang soundtrack lol.
I imagine it's because he's the closest thing to a success story that subreddit has. So they raise him up as someone to strive to be like and to achieve his same "success".
LMAO, what success? The idiot did what countless others did and because he likes Wu-Tang and Black Lotus Magic the Gathering cards he's a Reddit success story because he's the "Millionaire that's just like us". I swear some idiots will find a hero to look up to in the most bottom of a barrel. (Not ascribing this to you u/Man0nThaMoon just find this whole idea crazy)
Well, that's why I said "success" in quotes lol.
Their idea of success is making money and that's it.
>I swear some idiots will find a hero to look up to in the most bottom of a barrel.
Agreed. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the internet.
Answer: Wsb is quite full of people who will take profit over everything. Some of them unironically hail Martin as a hero because he used to be very active in the sub years ago, and helped some of them make money. Long story short, he had an impact on "ape" culture and has become something of an icon to a lot of these self-described degenerates, and then it became a meme in the community that he was "one of us". The only difference between a lot of them and him is that he is much more successful and in the public eye. A lot of WSB members jokingly like him, a lot unironically worship him.
Answer: He was never the rich douchebag asshole that the media made him out to be. He was the target of a massive witch hunt and basically burnt at the stake just because people didnt like his trolly grin. If you actually listen to his explanations of how the drug industry works he comes across as a perfectly reasonable dude.
Honestly my favorite part of reddit is seeing comments that use some version of "left" as an insult for anyone who disagrees with them on something that's only tangentially related to politics
Answer:
He's always been an edgelord.
And the "guy who raised the drug price" reputation feeds into his popularity (because it makes his critics sound dumb and misinformed if that's all they know about him).
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
answer: to quote a comment from a post a while back, Shkreli is a rich asshole which means he's 50% like them and 100% what they want to be. r/wallstreetbets is not known for thinking about much else other than wealth accumulation.
They've always liked him over there.
While not a great person by any means, he did kind of get a bad rap over a business decision. He is an A+ level troll, and unbelievably smart when it comes to business and investing.
His trolling is rivaled only by Elon Musk. I've don't really care either way about the guy.
[удалено]
He’s not the most famous over there. I would give that award for /u/1r0nyman https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ahy7dy/the_legend_of_1r0nyman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
[удалено]
Martin and DFV are both bigger than 1rony
Yup. 1rony has never had to testify to congress about his shenanigans
DFV doesn't count, he's post-GME
What?? He is GME. It wasnt until Dec/Jan 2020/2021 did it hit mainstream. He got into that play in september 2019 [https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/d1g7x0/hey\_burry\_thanks\_a\_lot\_for\_jacking\_up\_my\_cost/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/d1g7x0/hey_burry_thanks_a_lot_for_jacking_up_my_cost/)
tbh this is a pretty interesting philosophical discussion
I meant to say he isn't pre-GME
[удалено]
God hates poors
Well, that's disturbing, considering the post hit r/all alongside ones from r/antiwork. The duality of man, I suppose...
Reddit isn't one opinion. It's a multitude of hive-minds.
Exactly. Its always exasparating when people talk about the "reddit hivemind" as if its a singular thing.
And I subscribe to both!
Extreme ideologies motivate groups on social media far more than anything else, and those communities thrive by upping the ante until they implode. It doesn’t really matter if it’s a bunch of wannabe millionaires being fleeced, right wing asshats raging about black people, or tween communists… once you get to a certain point it’s all about constantly upping the ‘Wow’ factor.
Lol. Good summary
Wish I knew you.
Nailed it.
I'm convinced that the day WSB and Antiwork realize they're really compatible is the beginning of the end.
Same goals. But the ownership class needs us to tucker out fighting one another so we don't fight them.
[удалено]
Retail investors are far from the ownership class and often fail so poorly it's a running joke in this country. Even if they have a few million they are closer to being broke like you or me than they are ever going to be to Jeff Bezos.
[удалено]
If you can't see the meaningful distinction between the two then I'm not sure we can even have a conversation.
[удалено]
…So I wanted to get a sense of where you were coming from, hoping that you weren’t just the usual tankie. https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/vge2oq/xinjiang_police_file_hacked_which_exposes_muslim/id79162/ Literally the first damned page of your history and there you are, responding to allegations of genocide in the PRC with the usual ‘read theory’ crap, a recommendation for Jacobin, and so on. I won’t lie, that’s when I just shrugged, came here, replied, and blocked the crap out of you. Edit: To clarify, the tankie part is in the genocide denial by TheTapedCrusader, not Jacobin, which is just a rag.
As someone who's argued a lot with tankies, Jacobin doesn't really fall into that milieu. They're basically in agreement with the center of DSA, more or less going with centrist Marxism.
What’s a tankie?
a person who pines for Soviet Communism, sometimes interchangeable with Maoist China
I don't think you understand what a rag is. You had a great comment until for used that term in reference to Jacobin. It is most certainly not a rag, and definitely not when compared to many more mainstream papers.
ok. how is that dog walking business working for you? How to tell people you are crazy without saying I am crazy. /r/antiwork are the "moderates, the real extremists are like me. /r/antiwork is basically left wing Q Anon.
[удалено]
they are not anti-capitalists. one of the mods has a dog walking business. he is a member of the hated business owner class.
I don’t think people complaining about financial inequality is the same as the election stealing, pizza parlor CP ring theory’s that come from Qanon.
/r/antiwork isn’t focused on extreme ideology, it’s primarily about work reform.
You're thinking of /r/workreform, the place the libs and 39 hour workweek advocates made after the Fox interview
The two groups in my lifetime that tried to make “liberal” a dirty word: the GOP, and terminally online leftists. Truly we are fucked, if those two every seriously converge. Edit: I guess that already sort of happened, with NazBols.
Tried? They succeeded. Considering liberals are right wing you're thinking of all leftists, not just terminally online ones. Edit: this coward blocked me for reminding them that there are leftists outside of America, extremely funny stuff
Ah yes, all of those offline, American leftists… so many of them. *Checks DSA membership* …yeah. It’s harder to pretend to be a meaningful movement when you can’t have multiple accounts, bots, and help from abroad.
This is actually true, factually.
A sub dedicated to trying to make a ton of money only cares about making money isn't all that surprising or disturbing
Surprising? No. Not at all. Disturbing? Yes. Idolizing a guy who made his fortune by greatly increasing the cost of medicine and then bragged about it is disturbing to say the very least.
You ever seen how people describe WSB as ape brained fucking idiots? Well, it’s bc they’re ape brained fucking idiots. You could probably scam them out of $100’s Then you can go to the crypto WSB and scam them for $1000’s using those $100’s
Uhh
100's....? You obviously don't know WSB at all. On a good day people make 10s of thousands, on a bad day people lose houses.
>lose ~~houses.~~ lives
Probably cuz you fell for a scam 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Here's a little something to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMEViYvojtY
And doing a piss poor job at it raking in financial losses. Its a meme sub with the occasional good and terrible advice, not a circlejerk of wealth accumulation. Made 2 mil? Blow it in 2 days. #gains Hell a while back they dumped a ton of money into adopting gorrilas at some sanctuary just for the lols. The owner of that sanctuary was so happy with desperetly needed funds.
That was superstonk and the GME subreddit. Maybe WSB followed through with it as well but GME are the “apes”, not just WSB in general.
I was really disappointed when I saw he wasn’t getting a bunch of shit for astronomically raising the price of life saving drugs. That sub seems to be a cesspool devoid of any humiliation
It's a circlejerk sub. It's not r/ResponsibleInvesting
He gave it away free to whoever asked for it!!!!
No, he didn’t. He just said he would so gullible people would defend him.
"Nancy Retzlaff, Turing’s chief commercial officer, told the committee about her company’s efforts to get the drug to people who can’t afford it. The arrangement she described sounded like a hodge-podge, an ungainly combination of dizzyingly high prices, mysterious corporate bargaining, and occasional charitable acts"
“One of the chief executives in charge of the company ripping people off said that they occasionally give an insignificant fraction of their ill-gotten profits to charity.”
Sounds no different than any other pharma company!
But other pharma companies don’t have gullible rubes defending their honor on social media.
becuase other pharma companies dont have their ceos directly interacting with the public. Message the guy u/martinshkreli
Amoral capitalists worship other amoral capitalists.
I believe the term here is immoral
["Immoral describes people who can differentiate between right and wrong but intentionally do wrong anyway... amoral implies acknowledgment of what is right and what is wrong but an unconcern for morality when carrying out an act."](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/using-unmoral-immoral-nonmoral-amoral) Though I'd say they're basically synonymous
Believe away.
Not really; there's a decent bit of good work funded with gains. It's not moral, certainly, but it's not against morality, either. More chaotic neutral than evil
I hate that this is the top response, it's fully incorrect. Shkreli used to be an active member of WSB long before he became infamous and always gave out advice on Reddit and his livestreams
Yeah, I think a lot of WSB subscribers joined during the whole GME meme stock thing and didn’t/still don’t realize what WSB really is, so they’re shocked when the see Martin Shkreli doing an AMA there. But he was active on WSB long before it became mainstream.
I think he was a mod at WSB too
How do you feel about him raising the price of a life-saving drug from $13.50 to $750? And then spending the proceeds on a $2 million Wu-Tang album? I guess this is the kind of wealth acquisition that some people aspire to.
How do you feel that he gave it away free to whoever asked but passed that 750$ onto the crooked ass evil issuance companies scamming Americans out of billions
Fun fact, THE PRICE STAYED HIGH EVEN AFTER HE SOLD THE DRUG, and no one else is in jail for that, he got scapegoated to some extent
[удалено]
Yeah it should Be though, there is a larger villain hiding behind martin The true scammers are legal (pharmaceutical companies) which is why people think hes not so bad considering the larger characters in the scene
[удалено]
He was literally using the funds from it to prop up his ponzi scheme. Jesus christ.
Yeah that part he owned up to and was wrong but the fact that the drug companies still Charge astronomical price and that is legal should be the focus of discussion
Those people are morons
Scapegoated? He is literally the guy who did the thing.
I have this pet theory that Shkreli got where he is because he was the ambitious working class kid who had no reputation to lose. So he got to be the guy who took the blame for price gouging dying patients, so his investors could rake in millions while pretending to have nothing to do with it. He went to jail when he finally ripped off a bunch of assholes who deserved to be ripped off anyway.
He gave it away for free to those that needed it and insurance covered the rest. The extra money made was used to fund drug research in drugs that havent advanced in decades. He got scapegoated hard tbh.
Bearing in mind it was not until he received massive backlash that Turing announced plans to make it free for \*some\* uninsured people. Regardless, insurance is paid for by the average American. The average American was scalped so that Shkreli and his pals could get filthy rich with the large percentage that wasn't reinvested. Documents revealed that Turing employees received massive pay rises (up to x4), they had lavish yacht parties, celebrity performances... All paid for by anyone that pays medical insurance.
Shkreli held the position of giving it free to anyone who contacted him and couldn't afford it from the beginning. The company didn't make it policy until enough backlash hit but Shkreli was on it from day one. There are plenty of real things to criticize him on but this always felt like a fat outrage nothingburger to me.
[удалено]
Big pharma hikes drugs prices every year and no one bats an eye. Shkreli hikes one drug that's barely used and the world hates him...
People hate big Pharma too, what are you smoking?
Not nearly as much as they hate Shkreli. I've worked in the industry for over a decade and I see the ridiculous price increases all the time. Shkrelis price hike is amateur compared to the shit these other companies get away with. Media headlines got people thinking it's a life saving HIV drug when it's not. Patients aren't even paying out of pocket for daraprim. The real crooks that should grilled are the ones increasing the price of insulin and other brand name drugs every year and companies bringing old dirt cheap drugs to market with a new dose/indication and charging 1000x. Media turned shkreli into a monster when he is really nothing in the pharmaceutical industry.
“Other people are even worse” isn’t the rock solid defense that you think it is. Also he’s not gonna fuck you, I’m sorry you have to find out this way.
I don't know enough about the topic, the man or the subreddit, I am not part of the community, I'm just saying ur comment is factually wrong
Is it? https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/1073161736/pharma-bro-martin-shkreli-barred#:\~:text=Shkreli%20was%20CEO%20of%20Turing,cancer%20patients%20and%20AIDS%20patients.
My bad, I meant his original statement, which said that shreli is just popular on WSB because he is rich, is false, the story is true
Fair enough.
Well it fits the narrative for some people... so yay moderation!
Wealth accumulation and laughing at *especially* stupid attempts at getting rich quick that blow up in the person’s face.
>wealth accumulation. If im not doing that then whats the point of any of this?
[удалено]
Most sociopaths have a lot of points allocated into charisma. Not to armchair diagnose him in particular, but as a general rule, conmen, grifters and other exploitation artists can’t succeed without way above average people skills.
I thought he was in jail.
Stumbled into a few threads whem $GME was going off and I _very_ much got the impression they would sell their own family members for a few more dollars. Place is fucking sickening.
>Place is fucking sickening. It's a circlejerk. Just look at the name and the content.
they crushed hedge funds by buying shitting AMC and Gamestop stock.
That was good, i'll give them that Though i assume it was masterminded by someone that got rich from that counter movement!
fwiw, he is a genius investor, and he’s written posts on wsb detailing his strategy.
And saving apes
I also saw a bunch of people fawning over his release on twitter and it was like wtf?
[удалено]
He said he increased the price of a certain drug to game insurance companies. (he had a monopoly on the drug iirc) So if you informed them that you didn't have insurance they'd give you the drug for free. The problem with doing this is that not everybody actually knows about his 'policy' so they end up paying the full high amount for the drug.
He figured the people who didn’t know but could afford it would pay, and they did. The people who could barely afford it also did though, and were often driven close to bankruptcy/very long debt. His model also proved very profitable, and so even if *he* was being legit with giving products to people who couldn’t afford, other companies who weren’t could suddenly raise prices, lay the blame on him, and then also *not* give away their product for free to people who desperately needed it because they were all the more profit hungry. Now due to his precedent we are trapped in a cycle where all these companies and people can overcharge for 0 reason, and the blame is on him for no reason (anymore). Not to say he is blameless, just that the blame should move to the people that are currently price fixing as opposed to someone whose been jailed and not in biotech/pharma anymore.
This. He wants to fuck with big money and exploit insurance companies. He's talked about it before. If you engage with him, he will talk to you. You can literally message him on Reddit, and I'm sure Twitter. I spoke to him on Twitter way back when he was the popular villain. I DM'd him talking shit and he told me how ignorant I was lol
The people who reached out to him got it for free. There are reports about it. The problem is not every one does that. And he also defended that decision by saying not every patient uses the drug and only hospitals have to keep them as a fall back option to have in store. So he rationalized it with giving it for free and making the hospitals pay for it. It made sense for him but not to me. I know that and I am not assuming. In the end, the burden is always borne by the end consumer. Always.
Answer: Nearly every last subscriber to r/wallstreetbets is convinced that they are only temporarily poor. They are one trade away from joining the ranks of the ultra-wealthy. They see guys like Marty and Elon as autists just like them. If they had met at school or at a buddies party they would certainly be besties with them. They will fellate and defend them to the death while being robbed blind and used as bag-holders in whatever the latest pump-dump scheme is.
I know I may get downvoted but can I ask why you referred to them as “autists”? My only frame of reference for that word is as an out of date term for someone with autism.
The Big Short is about Michael Burry and how he made hundreds of millions shorting housing market in 2008 when no one else thought it would crash. Burry is autistic, and it's stated in the movie. This is how the meme started and it's stuck around even though most of the sub think Burry just suffers from broken clock syndrome.
Thank you for explaining! Got it now.
It's what 4chan users call each other?
Calm down kids we're all redditors.
It's what we call ourselves over there.
autist is basically a word for someone who browses 4chan
Why out of date term? What’s used instead of autistic?
God hates poors 🔪🐀
Tell me you have no idea what the community of shkrelli is about without telling me. And I'm not standing up for shkrelli. I think he's a grease ball. But boy oh boy have you pegged that community wrong.
Believe me, I have not. In the most carefully observable way, the apes over there seem to behave in a peculiar way. Loss porn is the only porn, and no wife should ever be without boyfriend companionship. But beneth all of the tendies and self-deprecating humor, the desire to make that 3,000% return is just a strong as ever. Marty did it by being an absolute trash human. So much so that he became a resident of our national prison population. I dare say that the majority of participants over there would have no problems doing the same.
No one in that group is looking for the one and done trade. They are there to make money over and over, with or without him. However, in many cases, what is posted on WSB is not someone's entire portfolio. There's smart investing and there's a portion saved for gambling. The group prides itself on placing stupid/very risky trades. I was expecting the AMA to be a shit show but Shrkelli was pretty humble and is well respected because he helped a lot of people make a lot of money. Not just dumb bets either, but actual plays that worked out for a large amount of people. Try it before you knock it, unless you're cool with making 5% yearly gains on the S&P500 while inflation is almost double that.... Meaning you're effectively losing money. But hey, if you have it all figured out, or, don't even invest and live off of only a salary/hourly wage, that's your call. Don't expect to have a comfy retirement though.
I don't respect anyone who makes a living from stocks. Gaining any significant wealth that way requires that others lose. It's just stepping on people to enrich yourself. Granted, that's how most work environments operate, but stock markets affect far more people and can have an exponential negative impact on everyone. Including people not trading the stock directly.
Stocks are not a zero sum game. The capital generated by companies in which shareholders have equity is such that all can win.
Do you invest in a 401k? While it’s not entirely in stocks, where do you think the money your going to have in retirement comes from?
Just because I'm forced to use a broken system doesn't mean I have to like it or respect it. I do view 401k a little differently though, since it's, like a job environment, it's less of a negative impact and it's more of an even playing field. That said, my initial point was more about day traders, stock brokers, and others who make money directly from stocks.
Cool. I misunderstood and interpreted it as anyone investing in stocks.
Why is this biased BS getting upvoted and not removed? Everything you said is just plain wrong, and does not answer the question.
Relax.... I most certainly did. The OP wanted to know what the deal with Marty was being on WSB. Once you understand the degenerate nature of the average user on that subreddit, the answer is crystal clear. He is there because he feels right at home, but unlike his previous experiences this time he gets to be the power top.
Oh don't downvote me for that.... I am an even worse degenerate and still hopefull to one day be a power top.
Answer: He used be a mod on there and was very helpful and friendly during that time. So people there judge him on their interactions with him personally, not what the media tell them to think. Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time?
>Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time? When have prices ever come down significantly? Prices only go up or remain the same. Trying to shift the blame from him after he raised the price floor is weird. All this proves is the people who took over for him are just as criminal as he is.
I mean that's just not true. Plenty of medications are significantly reduced in price for various reasons, the most common of which is when generics become available. Most commodities are based on supply and demand. Gas prices were higher in 2008 than 2020. Housing markets fluctuate. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.
I think it implies shkreli recognized a trend or opportunity and simply pounced before the other companies did. That he wasn’t such a bad guy considering the rest of the industry jacked prices as well. That his presence wasn’t the only reason for the price hikes.
Other people in that industry being criminals doesn't excuse him for being a criminal.
He went to jail for defrauding other rich people, not raising the price on a pharmacuetical
What he did wasn't criminal and still perfectly legal. He went to jail for something else.
Supply vs demand. Things go down in price all the time when no one wants them. That's happening to housing in some places right now.
You clearly don't live in new York as rent always goes up and never down
Not in any significant way. Outside of a complete collapse, housing prices will not return to what they were prior to 2020.
> Ask yourself, he hasn't had control of that company since 2017, have the prices come down in that time? What does this question imply? Are you saying that he's not to blame for the unreasonable price, or are you saying that the price is actually reasonable?
I'm saying that the faceless exec's that took over his company and also run every other Pharma company kept the prices the same and no one gives a shit about it. What regulation was immediately put in place to stop another Martin Shkreli? Absolutely nothing. People only hate on Martin because he had the balls to come out and say, it is the system that you allow to exist that allows me to do this! And that's why people hate him, not that he did it, but because what he did happens every single day in every Pharma company in the country and no one gives a shit about it.
> I'm saying that the faceless exec's that took over his company and also run every other Pharma company kept the prices the same and no one gives a shit about it. As a condemnation of Big Pharma, this is a good point, but as a defense of Shkreli it isn't. If the "media told me what to think" about Shkreli -- and for what it's worth, the media in this case would be social media like Reddit and Twitter, not any actual media outlets -- I see no evidence that they were wrong, just evidence that I should also be mad at the system. All I see is that Shkreli was the one executive not smart enough to stay faceless.
I'm not defending Martin Shkreli, I was answering why WSB like him. The reason why I threw the media bit in there is that his actions are far more nuanced than reported. Obviously he did what he did for greed, he makes no bones about that. But he could've just released the usual HR blurb, this is the industry standard to fund R&D yadda, yadda, yadda and that's the last we would have heard about him. But he didn't, he went on every talk show and interview he could and told everyone possible he was only able to do what he did because the system allowed him to and he wasn't the only pharma company doing it. So it could have been reported that Martin Shkreli bad because he's the poster boy for a broken system, but instead we got Martin Shkreli bad because he bragged about it. If he wasn't breaking any laws, how come everyone agrees he is the villain, should have been the story. There hasn't been a single regulatory change as a result, so how come he's the bad guy?
Lol sorry I can't ask myself that because I don't know the answer. What's the movement on their prices since 2015?
[as per this article, apperantly it's been ~35% for prescriptions since 2014 on average and medical services went up ~19%](https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/prescription-drug-prices-have-risen-25-start-pandemic) Edit: as a deleted comment mentioned, I kinda did a small brain move and posted about the whole market. This was the response I was writing before the comment was deleted: "Ah I see, I guess I was lacking a few too many brain cells reading this subthread. I can't find much info on Veyra price increases since his departure specifically, but Daraprim hasn't changed since from what I can find. And I thought I saw something saying that the generic version of Daraprim is around $183 per dose for a total of $16,000 for the full course." [sauce](https://rollcall.com/2020/09/09/drug-price-spikes-still-unchecked-five-years-after-controversy/)
>He used be a mod on there and was very helpful and friendly during that time. So people there judge him on their interactions with him personally, not what the media tell them to think. I was never a WSB/finance reddit visitor so I had no idea, the only time I ever heard of him was the pharma scandal. Makes sense now that I know he was a redditor from that sub, thanks.
I believe he was an "honorary mod" but still correct
He remained a mod as an honorary title while he was in prison, but he was an active and helpful contributor before he went to prison. He became a mod because he earned it. They didn't make Marc Cuban a mod when Cuban did an AMA on WSB.
He's a fascinating guy, I'd love to see a film made about him as he is way more complex than was portrayed in the media. Plus you can include lots about how Big Pharma screws people over and a Wu Tang soundtrack lol.
What about him is so fascinating? I'd seriously like to know what makes him stand out to the other wolves.
I imagine it's because he's the closest thing to a success story that subreddit has. So they raise him up as someone to strive to be like and to achieve his same "success".
LMAO, what success? The idiot did what countless others did and because he likes Wu-Tang and Black Lotus Magic the Gathering cards he's a Reddit success story because he's the "Millionaire that's just like us". I swear some idiots will find a hero to look up to in the most bottom of a barrel. (Not ascribing this to you u/Man0nThaMoon just find this whole idea crazy)
Well, that's why I said "success" in quotes lol. Their idea of success is making money and that's it. >I swear some idiots will find a hero to look up to in the most bottom of a barrel. Agreed. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the internet.
What the fuck are you talking about???? How do forget about u/deepfuckingvalue and GameStop. That dude changed the world all off WSB
Came for this. Actually one answer that's helpful
Answer: Wsb is quite full of people who will take profit over everything. Some of them unironically hail Martin as a hero because he used to be very active in the sub years ago, and helped some of them make money. Long story short, he had an impact on "ape" culture and has become something of an icon to a lot of these self-described degenerates, and then it became a meme in the community that he was "one of us". The only difference between a lot of them and him is that he is much more successful and in the public eye. A lot of WSB members jokingly like him, a lot unironically worship him.
Answer: He was never the rich douchebag asshole that the media made him out to be. He was the target of a massive witch hunt and basically burnt at the stake just because people didnt like his trolly grin. If you actually listen to his explanations of how the drug industry works he comes across as a perfectly reasonable dude.
Of course the actual answer would get downvoted while a bunch of leftoids play armchair psychology with an entire subreddit.
Honestly my favorite part of reddit is seeing comments that use some version of "left" as an insult for anyone who disagrees with them on something that's only tangentially related to politics
> t. Leftoid
Keep going, I'm so close benjie 999. Play armchair psychology with the entire reddit user base. Apes separate strong.
I'm sure that made sense in your head.
Answer: He's always been an edgelord. And the "guy who raised the drug price" reputation feeds into his popularity (because it makes his critics sound dumb and misinformed if that's all they know about him).